Facebook
Fark
Digg
Reddit
Stumble
Wednesday, July 14, 2010 | 2 a.m.
Reader poll
JOB CREATION
According to Chris Milam, the point man for the proposed Silver State Arena, the project would create thousands of jobs. Nevada leads the nation in unemployment, having recently surpassed Michigan, home of the for-sale Detroit Pistons.Related document
Steve Sisolak
Chris Giunchigliani
Sun archives
- Strip sports arena has very little support (6-10-2010)
- MGM Mirage opposes arena options seeking public financing (5-18-2010)
- County wants arena details, says public money unlikely (4-6-2010)
- Cowboys Stadium poses Texas-sized threat to Vegas (3-21-2010)
- Jerry Jones says Cowboys, NFL will lift boxing (3-9-2010)
- New arena plans promise jobs but seek public money (3-4-2010)
- Rodeo rustler? Tourism officials worry Dallas Cowboys owner could steal Vegas event (3-4-2010)
- City OKs plan to study downtown arena, entertainment district (11-4-2009)
- Cordish projects include sports-anchored developments (11-4-2009)
- Goodman: 20,000-seat downtown arena could lure NBA team (10-29-09)
- Mayor seeking arena development deal for City Hall parcel (10-28-2009)
- With arena plan dead, what next for former REI Neon site? (8-2-2009)
- City quietly ends arena talks with REI Neon (10-15-2008)
- City holds out hope for arena downtown (8-21-2008)
- Told you, critics of arena play say (8-2-2008)
- Casino plan may survive arena's death (5-30-2008)
An investment group seeking to build an arena on the Las Vegas Strip claims it is on the cusp of purchasing an NBA team to play in the facility.
For the deal to go through, said Chris Milam, CEO of International Development Management LLC, the group must strike a deal with the county to fund construction of the arena — dubbed the Silver State Arena — slated for the old Wet ’n Wild water park site.
“We have an NBA team under contract,” Milam said, declining to name the franchise. But the deal will take effect only if “other pieces of the puzzle fall into place: One of those pieces will be that a building (arena) is approved,” he said.
The key to Milam’s plan is persuading Clark County to revive its redevelopment area and fund the arena using what is known as tax-increment financing.
Milam is scheduled to make his case to county commissioners at an Aug. 4 meeting.
Commissioners last month discussed arena proposals — three plans have been floated this year — but did not vote on whether they would support construction of any project. Based on their remarks, there appeared to be little support for any arena plan requiring public assistance.
Of the three proposals, two call for formation of a new tax district along the Strip to repay public bonds that would fund construction.
Milam’s plan calls for resurrection of the county redevelopment district. Developers would then be allowed to keep increases in property tax revenue over current levels. Taxes derived from the district to support the arena would be capped at $125 million.
The county dismantled the district — it encompassed a small swath of land that includes the Wet ’n Wild site and some older properties to the east, along Sahara Avenue — a year ago and redistributed its funds to the state and other entities that would have received the money had the district not existed.
Milam will bring his plan to commissioners in their capacity as overseers of the district.
Commissioners have been noncommittal on Milam’s plan, but at least one said their outlook might improve if Milam does, in fact, have an NBA team “under contract” and needs only arena approval for the deal to go through.
Commissioner Steve Sisolak, who has been less than enthusiastic about arena plans requiring public funding, said having a team ready to play in the arena “would be a game changer.”
“It would mean a lot, carry a lot of weight. They’d get a lot more attention,” he said, adding that he’d “like to see those contracts.”
Las Vegas has long wanted to lure an NBA franchise and league officials, though hesitant because of legal sports betting here, have shown some interest. The 2007 All-Star weekend was held in Las Vegas and the league holds its summer league here.
NBA Commissioner David Stern has said relocating a team to Las Vegas is not a possibility until the city builds an NBA-quality arena.
“I think Vegas would be a great town for an NBA franchise,” Byron Scott, the Cleveland Cavaliers’ first-year coach, said Tuesday during summer league games at Cox Pavilion. “But I know there are people in NBA circles who are afraid of the gambling and other distractions you have here.”
Milam wouldn’t disclose the franchise he is working with, but Detroit Pistons owner Karen Davidson has said the franchise is for sale.
Milam is attempting to tailor his pitch to the current political environment, noting the jobs it could create and other community benefits it would provide.
The project would create 4,000 high-paying construction jobs, he says. Once it is completed, he estimates 7,000 direct and indirect jobs would be created.
UNLV’s basketball team could use the new arena at no cost and keep the revenue from ticket and merchandise sales, he said. Beyond the $8 million or so UNLV would reap from such an arrangement, he believes a new arena might help recruitment.
“If you’re a talented kid from anywhere in the country and you have a chance to play in a $400 million pro arena on the Strip, what are you going to do?” Milam said.
In a year, he estimates, the site would host more than 220 events, including NBA and UNLV games, as well as National Hockey League games — he also hopes to secure an NHL team for Las Vegas.
“This might not be the politically expedient thing to do, but it’s the right thing to do for the economy,” Milam said.
But the politics of the project remains one of its biggest hurdles.
Commissioner Chris Giunchigliani, who spearheaded the effort last year to mothball the county’s redevelopment agency, said it matters little to her if Milam has a signed NBA agreement.
“It’s not the right location and it’s a traffic issue,” she said.
In June, commissioners read a staff report critical of creation of special tax districts to issue public bonds to build an arena.
In his report, county Comptroller Ed Finger hinted that the Silver State Arena was different because the redevelopment district was already in place. Further, Milam would begin collecting redevelopment district revenue only after the arena was built.
Commissioners discussed allowing voters to decide whether to support an arena tax district. After a short discussion, they moved on to other business, leading some to believe any prospects for an arena are dead.
Milam, though, said he will continue to work toward deals with the NBA, NHL and UNLV.
“If we lock up those deals, at some point people are going to scratch their heads and say, ‘What’s going on?’ ”
Most of the jobs such a project would create are low wage, part-time, seasonal. And would only benefit wealthy owners and players at taxpayer expense. How about if owners and players finished the Fontainebleau and let unemployed Las Vegans live there at 20% of there monthly income!
These arrangements never work out in the average taxpayers favor. If it's such a great idea, then certainly they should be able to find private financing. Otherwise taxpayers are simply financing the jobs that are created rather than the developers who will pocket the money they save. This is not in the public's best interest.
Wasn't one of the proposed arenas able to be financed without public money? The one proposed behind Bally's?
mrjb - some "low wage, part-time, seasonal." jobs are better than no jobs.
Do I want the County to pay for the Arena? Probably not.
Do I want a couple of thousand additional jobs in the county to help locals get through the recession? Heck YES!
There has to be some kind of compromise to get this done. And if Commissioner Giunchigliani's biggest complaint is traffic, has she driven anywhere else in this town, ever. There is always traffic, who cares if a hour before/after an event there is increases traffic on the strip???
Why on the strip?? Traffic is bad enough on and around the strip already. Can you imagine what it would be like before and after games? I understand that location is important but ca mon..
If this is approved there should be something in the contract that states if their NBA deal falls through then the county gets the stadium and the owners lose out. I just don't see the NBA letting a team move here. Hope I am wrong but after living in Vegas for a half a century I don't believe this is going to happen.
It's NEVER gonna happen, to much entanglement and conflict of interest with sports betting..
Right, if you want to start a business in Vegas, don't do it on the back of the taxpayers, who you are then going to ask to come to the games. No public money for an arena.
And besides, do you really think Vegas can fill a 20,000 seat arena (or even half of it) for the boring product that is NBA basketball? These freaks of nature and multi millionaires don't even care about winning, why should we?
The family that owns the Sacramento Kings also run the Palms, I would strongly suggest getting them to help. I know they have the cash for supplemental funding.
I think the commissioners would reconsider if the NBA, NHL, UNLV, and UFC commits to it, but then again, Sahara and the Blvd is rather undesirable traffic-wise.
Seriously...
EXACTLY.
ANYWHERE near the strip is INSANE.
But if the bucks are right, the "players" in such a deal could care less if it's a good logistical location, or NOT.
Public financing of sports arenas and stadia is, by most accounts, not a good investment for a city.
I couldn't disagree more.
It's another "I CAN'T SEE THE FOREST FOR THE TREES!" conundrum.
That Horse Rustler Jerry Jones is stealin' business with HIS new Cowboys Stadium. Heck, he's already stole business from Las Vegas.
DOWNTOWN.
DOWNTOWN.
DOWNTOWN.
Build it, and they will come.
Waste of money, no gain to the City. How about a Bullfighting arena. the Mexican population here is really growing, and with Arizona running out illegals, and our law dropped, Vegas could be heading for a huge influxes of Mexicans in our are. They are much cheaper to build, and we can also add more Mexican sports, Dog racing, twice a month. Cock fighting every Wednesday nite, and on Sat during the day we can rent it out for a Swap meet.
Publicly funded stadiums are a waste of money. Ultimately they destroy wealth, kill more jobs than they create, and throw low-income and minority people out of their neighborhoods. In the end, publicly funded stadiums rob the poor to pay the rich.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa...
http://reason.tv/video/show/take-us-out-...
http://www.thesportseconomist.com/
http://vimeo.com/12239959
oh ya baby!!!! if the celtics visit, I WILL BE THERE!!!! we need something, anything to bring visitors back to our city! If a professional team could be here, so would they! it would fill our hotel rooms( that's more taxes from the rooms)! if each one buys a drink, that's money for the hotels! if each one gambles 10 to 20 dollars, that's more money for the hotels, which in turn, creates a litle job security. we need ALL of this! Not to mention the constuction jobs that we are in dire need of! I think it's a great idea! screw the sports bets on one team!!! the team would bring us more money and security in the future than a lousy bet would!
D O A - NO, NO, NO public funding for an Arena! If it's such a great idea let a private investor/investment entity pay for it. NBA contract means nothing, no public money. The NBA only attracts thugs anyway.
"Wasn't one of the proposed arenas able to be financed without public money? The one proposed behind Bally's?"
Yep, and it's STILL not built. You know why? Cause it's not financially sensible to do so now! Since those entities were going to spend THEIR money on the project, it had to make financial sense. And we see it doesn't. So us taxpayers shouldn't be paying for this folly either.
however, we should not be paying for this out of our pockets! our pockets are empty, as if you didn't know! there are plenty of rich people that should be footing this bill! hello steve wynn, hello george maloof, hello sheldon adelson. just a few of our big boys who are getting richer and richer! it's just a drop in the bucket for these boys! or maybe ask lebron! he just got 250 million from nike!!! better yet, ask nike! they have nothing but money! make it Nike Stadium! great idea! LOL
Well if its on the old Wet and Wild site, entend the Sahara's monorail stop so people can use it go get to and from the game. I'd rather park at the MGM and spend $2 round trip for a monorail ride to the arena than park anywhere near there as they try to get 25,000+ people out of there after an event.
For the deal to go through, said Chris Milam, CEO of International Development Management LLC, the group must strike a deal with the county to fund construction of the arena.
They are suggesting to privatize profits and socialize the expense, If the county takes on this debt then they can also buy a team for them selves and we the people can get our money instead of some investment group..........
Here's an idea if the county will build me a hotel casino I will manage it for them and cut them in on some of the profits.
I'm not generally in favor of public financing of private projects, but this project would bring a dozen young millionaires who would live in town and another dozen to visit forty-one times a season. Some of their money would surely find its way into the local economy.
Let Chris Milam build his own arena. I will surely remember any commissioner who vote for the project to spend our hard earn dollars. I will make it a point to vote any commissioner out come election time.
They already have the area fenced off with Silver State Arena signs on the fences, so its looking pretty likely.
Maybe the big push for wet&wild is because it is controlled by Sue Louden. Alot going on behind the curtain here! If it is such a great idea why isn't there a private investor or two willing to jump in. Makes you wonder what is really going on...
I hope that when Chris Milam comes to town he will visit the tent city's cause they will also be paying for his enrichment!
Sure hope the Commissioners contact the NBA to determine the authenticity of Mr. Milam's comments.
This could help the monorail and new bus lines. I for one am not a fan of NBA, but an NHL team or other events I would support.
I say build The New Arena but not with Public Money
Mr. Milam has a bridge in Brooklyn for sale, too.
This WILL NOT generate a sustainable economic growth needed in southern Nevada, and have they even had the first clue about parking???? Who are these jokers??? How many times have we heard this song and dance before??? Get the hook. This guy is so-o-o green.
It is good to see that most people seem to get the whole arena/stadium scam. Someone mentioned that the Maloofs, who own the Palms Casino. I know from friends in Sacramento that they have been pushing for some time to try to get the city there to build them a new Arena under threat of moving the team elsewhere. I would be okay with the government helping in these deals if the they were not usually skewed to benefit the developer or team owner. I remember the deal that the Cleveland Browns owner got when he moved them to Baltimore to become the Ravens. And I thought that they only wanted like 15% from the county and yet they mention a $400M arena and that the county would commit to 'up to' $125M. That seems like potentially a lot more than the 15% I have heard them say they needed from the public in the past. Those sorts of things always make me a little extra wary.
All that is needed is for Harry Reid to make a phone call.
No one does more, right?
It's my money, I support this idea. Bring us a team, I got a taste of glory with the Locos, I want more!
Have rory's firefighters build it so they can earn some of that big money they have been stealing from your county thanks to rory and his commission.
yes, yes...we need more menial $9 and $10 per hour jobs selling sodas and beer in vegas, huh?
our fascination with pro sports is just silly.
we didn't "need" and couldn't make a sports team when we were one of the fastest growing cities, why in the world would we "need" one now?
stupid.
it's all bs. Just a stalking horse to drum interest for these losers.
"How about if owners and players finished the Fontainebleau and let unemployed Las Vegans live there at 20% of there monthly income!"
Oh, yeah. That makes perfect sense.
How about if all the "low wage, part-time, seasonal" construction workers picked up and moved on to another city where their labor is needed, now that the Las Vegas building boom is in a 2-year holding pattern? Problem solved.
Does anyone remember when we had the NBA all star game here? NO THANKS
YES
DO IT NOW!
Most of you should try actually reading before you comment. First off, the project is said to have 85% private financing. So that leaves 15% to come from the county. OK, sure that sucks when there's so many other projects/services that can use money but this is something that will diversify our revenue stream, which we need. The 15% is out of the $750 million projected to build the arena, which is $112 million. With that investment you're going to get a team of young millionaires in town who will spend their money all over town, not just in the casinos again adding to our economy.
Fans will come from all over, especially LA and Phoenix, to see the an NBA game and will be another stop for the tourists before hitting the bars/nightclubs/casinos at 10-11 p.m. when they would be going there anyway.
This proposal also helps UNLV, and while I am a proud alumni of THE University of Nevada (not this craptastic place down here) it's always good to help out the local university.
Put the project through and watch what it does to our economy!
Sahara and Paradise is only about 3 miles from campus, not 10. It would certainly help bring, say the NCAA tournament to Vegas. There are already tons of people that come here to bet on those games...why not go to them too.
I'd be willing for minimal public funding if necessary but majority private investment definitely should be a criteria...it's sure better than some of the things our taxes go to now.....
Funny how I see some of the same people with something negative to say about every article (you know who you are). Life must stink when you hate every idea any person has.
Nice to see some progress on the prospect of a major sports team based here. It would be great to have a more modern arena in Las Vegas. Downtown seems a better location for vehicle traffic and also to offer reasonable convenience to both locals and tourists.
<Bunch of millionaire thugs that attract gang thugs to the games.>
Las Vegas is the perfect place for them since the millionaire thugs are already there all the time gambling!! NBA players are notorious gamblers. One BIG reason this is not going to happen.
The All Star Game fiasco! I still get the creeps remembering the stories I heard.
After that All Star Game fiasco, I can't imagine inviting these folks into our city again. I will never voter Public Funds to support them. Thats all we need is a bunch of low life thugs invading the City, again. NO, NO, A Thousand times NO.
The biggest fiasco that came out of the All-Star game was done by a football player if you would read. Just because the guy was black doesn't mean he played in the NBA.
j-law...
Asking people to READ THE ARTICLE BEFORE COMMENTING would seem a no-brainer, wouldn't it???
NEVADA.
"We can't see the forest for the trees!!!"
Hard to add to everyones comments as they are all pretty much dead on. AGAINST!! And of course. For so many simple reasons. Location for starters. The worst location ever. Public Funding? Forget about it. Could not be asking at a worse time!! No guarantees either. None. I believe the NBA lost 400 million last year. And we need more than just an arena anyways. This city needs a stadium and arena combo. And some of these readers were so right when they say "if such a great idea, where are the investors". They dont exist because there are so many unknowns. The person trying to push this thru and strong arm the commissioners needs to close something or get this approved or his contract ends and he loses out on a lot of money. Millions. I assure you. And just because they buy a team, does that mean the NBA just automatically approves a team to VEGAS. I think not. And how dare they not tell us who it is and show the commissioners the contract. This is a waste of time on many many levels. I am sure the Commissioners are keen to this. I have confidence in them.
If "Think Tank Pat" had come out in favor of a NICKEL of public dough for this, or ANYTHING, worthwhile or not, I'd have keeled over.
Hey Pat, does it get HOT DOWN THERE???
If traffic is the biggest concern, thats such a minuscule concern, it's laughable. If you build it, they will come. his city needs this, not just for the economy, but pride in having a team here. I have friends in Phoenix that don't even watch basketball, but took great pride in their city when the suns did well at the end of the season.
It also brings in people to the city that are sports fans, not just tourists.
After reading all of the comments here, it seems that the decision is split. I read "mrjb" saying "Most of the jobs such a project would create are low wage, part-time, seasonal." I agree they might be low wage and maybe even part time, but I look at it this way, Las Vegas is an entertainment city so why would these new jobs created by a new arena be "seasonal." Go to any arena that has sports and entertainment in it and you will see the same staff every time you go there no matter what event it is. Sports and events happen every day so why would the owners of the arena keep hiring people for seasonal jobs? There has to be a level of consistency, no?Having a pro sports arena in Las Vegas would be great in my opinion. It would bring more excitement than people expect.
I don't think the NBA and the strip will mix. This would be better built downtown.
All I have to say is! Bring back .99 cent breakfast and have Harry Reid service them in a mini skirt and provide a smoking section for the 2-year-old Indonesian Baby Ardi Rizal!!!
The only thing I want Harry Reid to say to me is, " Be back at 8AM tomorrow and you will start your new solar power job at $25 an hour with training provided.
Get this done!!!
Some of you guys sound so miserable that nothing could ever make you happy. You find every little thing to criticize. The traffic, the "low-paying jobs", blah, blah, blah. You guys are an embarrassment.
I think this is a great idea. The county should approve this immediately!
Gmag,
I like baseketball - even been to a dozen NBA games - and I like football even more. But stadium subsidies are not worthwhile. Study after study demonstrates that cities loose money on these investments. Jobs are temporary and come at the expense of lost job opportunities elsewhere in the city. In many places the construction requires the demolition of low-income neighborhoods while no one can dispute that this is a wealth transfer from poor to rich. How is any of that good?
J-Law, I bet the project will be 100% backed by taxpayers if it flops or can't even cover the capital costs.
Part 1 of 2
"The key to Milam's plan is persuading Clark County to revive its redevelopment area and fund the arena using what is known as tax-increment financing."
AND FUND THE ARENA USING WHAT IS KNOWN AS TAX-INCREMENT FINANCING.
Tax increment financing means that the County, School District, Water Agencies and if located there the City lose all increases in real estate tax revenue in the area covered by the redevelopment district. If the redevelopment district is bigger than the stadium site, that means that all new real estate tax revenue from other properties is also lost to public agencies.
Tax increment financing also usually means the issuance of municipal bonds, so that the County can assign that tax revenue directly to the lender who pays to build the stadium. In case any of the geniuses promoting this project haven't noticed, the IRS limits the amount of municipal bonds any state can issue in any one year. The limitation is based on the state's population. So all of the public agencies in Nevada can issue far less in municipal bonds than in a state like Pennsylvania.
In the case of the Monorail, IRS's bond allocation for Nevada was not enough to even build it in one year. As a result, the scum in the "municipal bond community" had to put together a series of outright lies to the IRS, which were attested to by a certain retired Governor, to get the bonds issued and sold. The content of the bond documents themselves were frauds on the bondholders, but that's another issue. So now, Nevada is being asked to "do it again".
So does this Milam character expect this stadium to be built with his own money, or his bank's money, without the issuance of redevelopment bonds?
If not, he and the promoters of this stadium better do the math, because the IRS's allocation to Nevada is not enough to build such a stadium in one year. Or over several years. Instead it would tie up Nevada's entire allocation for municipal bonds over at least 3 years, meaning no other city, county, school district or the like would be allowed to issue bonds for any purpose. Is that fair?
Then there's the question of whether those in the bond-buying business would even want to buy Clark County Redevelopment bonds after the outright frauds and b.s. which were pulled off by the bond underwriters and bond lawyers on the Monorail bonds. Will the bond buyers require that these redevelopment bonds be "Recourse to the County", guaranteed by the County with our tax revenue, in order to make the bonds sellable?
That would mean that if the team stopped paying rent, to cover the bond payments, the County would get stuck making the payments and we the taxpayers who need County services might suffer. Unionized County employees might need to take a pay cut if the bonds were recourse and the County got stuck paying them.
Part 2 of 2
"Tax Increment Financing" means that you and I get to pay for the police, fire and other governmental services, subsidizing this for-profit business, because it would be paying zero in taxes to the County and other public agencies.
Los Angeles does not have an NFL team because renowned Councilman Hal Bernson made it his career goal to prevent the issuance of City of L.A. redevelopment bonds to build a new football stadium. The City of L.A. is broke. Can you imagine where they would be if they were "short" the real estate taxes on a $500 Million piece of real estate?
Does anyone even remember that the Oakland Raiders walked away from Oakland AFTER the City of Oakland had already spent a ton of the public's money to renovate their stadium at the team owner's request. Does anyone even remember that the Oakland Raiders owners refused to come back to Oakland until the taxpayers forked over even more millions and millions of dollars to the Raiders' millionaire owner?
Smart public officials, like L.A.'s Hal Bernson, know that once a city or county "goes out of pocket" to bring in a sports team, it is a never ending, downward spiral of sports team owner's greed, demanding more and more from the public purse for the privilege of having a major league team.
Clark County is broke. The State of Nevada is broke. Nevada has a 20+ % unemployment rate. Major league stadiums require a massive amount of public services, in terms of police and fire protection, health inspection, and a raft of other issues. Why should hungry, starving Nevadans subsidize this millionaire, or any millionaire for that matter.
And please, don't tell me "To create jobs". Just ask the people who work at the Thomas & Mack how much they get paid. Squat.
stevem, this is just more NutJob kind of thinking;
"yes, yes...we need more menial $9 and $10 per hour jobs selling sodas and beer in vegas, huh?"
Are you serious, kid???
There are people starving that can't pay their rent right now in this town... some of which would kill for a $10 an hour gig.
<Fans will come from all over, especially LA and Phoenix, to see the an NBA game and will be another stop for the tourists before hitting the bars/nightclubs/casinos at 10-11 p.m. when they would be going there anyway.>
First off: LA and Phoenix have their own NBA teams and loyal fan bases. No need to travel to Vegas unless they happen to BE in Vegas. Well, maybe the Lakers' fan would come since their high profile fans go everywhere to see them but Lakers fans would not sustain the new stadium.
I would not count on the tourists going to see any games. They are in Vegas to gamble NOT see a basketball or hockey game (which, I'm sure, a lot of those tourists have their own pro teams in their own cities). Sure, some would go just to stay out of a casino, but they really would have to be desperate since going to an NBA game will be more costly then hanging out on the Strip.
Also - it all sounds very good on paper. But Rule No. 1 for any pro team to make money (and in this instance to help the Vegas economy and the job situation): you have to have decent teams; in fact, exceptional teams, WINNING teams to make money. If the team sucks, whether NBA or NHL, it won't even draw interest from the Vegas residents,let alone the tourists. I always thought Vegas lacks that Pro Sports mentality that so many other cities have, especially the cities back east. I don't think it has enough enthusiasm to sustain a brand new stadium no matter what it is for. I always got the impression they could take it or leave it. The ONLY time I saw enthusiasm was on Sundays at various bars for football. Then you saw enthusiasm but it was always from fans watching their hometown teams. Vegas has a long way to go to get that kind of loyalty - unless the new teams are blessed and come out of the gate winning!!!
The, of course, there's always the possibility that if the County Commissioners approved a redevelopment area creation, tax increment financing and bond issuance for this stadium, that the voters in Clark County could get a referendum or initiative petition on the ballot and undo the County Commissioners' approvals and agreements.
There are no guarantees in this life Mr. Milam. Tell the NBA Clark County voters can always undo your "deal". I don't think they are going to be impressed.
Tax increment financing may also be unconstitutional (that is, if the courts understood our own constitution)
Article 8, sections 9 and 10:
Sec: 9. Gifts or loans of public money to certain corporations prohibited. The State shall not donate or loan money, or its credit, subscribe to or be, interested in the Stock of any company, association, or corporation, except corporations formed for educational or charitable purposes.
Sec: 10. Loans of public money to or ownership of stock in certain corporations by county or municipal corporation prohibited. No county, city, town, or other municipal corporation shall become a stockholder in any joint stock company, corporation or association whatever, or loan its credit in aid of any such company, corporation or association, except, rail-road corporations[,] companies or associations.
http://www.leg.state.nv.us/const/nvconst...
It IS a great idea for very good reasons:
1. Jobs are jobs. Hello people we have 14% unemployment - the worst in the country. THE worst.
2. Instead of spending my money elsewhere to watch an NBA or NHL game or big concert tour, I will spend my money in Las Vegas, NV.
3. Having an alternative entertainment to gaming and Cirque shows is a positive, making Las Vegas more or a well rounded city.
4. The revenue gained from sales and tax is real. It will come from locals and tourists alike.
5. The high paid players, management and others who move to Las Vegas benefit the city coffers.
6. Last I checked there were plenty of construction workers looking for a good gig.
7. Events and games help fill hotel beds, restaurants, show rooms, casino floors, valet garages, nightclubs, pools, strip clubs, retail shops, etc etc
8. Big East etc bball Teams play some of their home games in the big areas in NYC and Phili because they can put more fans in seats and the tv is better. If UNLV grew to be a bigger program they'd LOVE to be in a bigger spotlight.
As for the argument that the traffic would be too much - all arenas have "Stadium Traffic" - it's part of the event... it can actually help build the excitement. Plus, locals get used to it and plan accordingly.
As for those of you who say to finish Fountain Blue first... Which do we need more: Professional Sports Franchises or more hotel rooms, slot machines and black jack tables?
As for those who think that gambling on games would get worse... well, all games are already bet on. This way it would be out in the open rather than with bookies. The Sports books have cameras... if a coach, player or referee got the brilliant idea of throwing a game, they's be caught betting on it.
There are many upsides to this...many.
Embrace it.
I'd pre-buy season tickets today.
Game On!
LVMD2020
All your points make sense. But there is so much more to it.
Re the stadium jobs: they are seasonal. The pay is not going to even be $10 an hr. More in the $7-8 range and no tips.
Don't expect the owners or players to live in Vegas. If they do, they will rent for the season and not buy as do most players on pro sports teams. The owners "might" buy something but again...are these guys local or out of towners? Locals - maybe. out of towners - rent for the duration of the season. And how can you expect some young player to buy a house in Vegas, then get traded to another city and try to sell the house in Vegas? That is why players do not buy in teh cities they play in. Good example - Greg Maddux. All the years he was in Chicago - he rented; never bought a house since I believe he has 10 in Vegas!!!! (lolol only kidding; I think it's only 6!!) But he is also a hometown boy.
And again - the majority of people come to Vegas to gamble - not watch pro sports. They can do that at home. And to make money - the team has to WIN - all the time! It has to be a contender. It can't be mediocre. They have to be good enough to draw the crowds.
BTW - do you realize how much season tickets to ANY pro sports team's games cost????
LVMD,
Few academic studies would support even a single claim you make. Economists generally agree that stadium subsidies make little sense as they do not boost incomes, do not improve the economy, do not increase tax revenue, and create few jobs (and in many cases actually destroy more jobs than they create).
I would buy season tickets immediately also. However I do not support public funding of this project. Nevada is currently facing a 2-3 billion dollar deficit next year.
Let's get that balanced without raising any taxes first.
What if the owners of the team can't pay the property taxes, is the county responsible? I've seen this happen in another state.
big bonanza for the strips clubs--these nba players seem to spend their entire life boozing and chasing tramps---everyone knows no one in town will make a penny off of these guys! Biggest group of stiffs in history--bar none!
^^^^Glad to see RebelRobert add his two cents.
I've read every comment on this article and from my viewpoint, c.o. and p.r.g. have dumped a big barrel of BS on it -- politician style.
Traffic problems, huh? Like there'd be none on Koval and Flamingo, Charleston and I-15 or the Spaghetti Bowl? Off strip = SBS, so get over it.
This city is on the floor. There really isn't another idea on the horizon that matches the potential for growth SSA provides. View the website, the plan is well-done.
If a dump like Memphis has a pro team, why can't Vegas?
The potential derailment of this project is rooted in greed from local politicians who have their hands out.
The Cavaliers generated $3.7 million in revenue per game last year, that's more than $151 million a season. Sure that's with LeBron on the team, but it just gives you a sense of what could be had.
Traffic problems are hardly what you guys make them out to be. If they do it (as the plan shows) with exits on all sides, not just dump everyone onto the Strip it should help. Also games/events don't run everyday.
If an NHL team is attached to this it would make that more interesting because Vegas, for some reason, likes hockey. The Wranglers have a very good following here and the Phoenix franchise is falling apart.
If you have another idea to generate more than $100 million in revenue from something that only operates 41 days out of the year, please share. Tack that on to all the other events that will run out of this arena and you have money infused back into our economy.
Oh, and we do have plenty of empty homes/condos here for players to rent rather than own. If that's your excuse for this project moving on, move.
Hate to disagree but NO Reno's downtown is actually 100% better than Downtown Las Vegas, ever heard of Artown? Don't think they would have that event in Downtown Las Vegas, there's no culture down there. The Strip is where it's at in Vegas, Downtown Vegas doesn't need to be beautified cuz nobody goes there
this is the same guy that wanted to build the 1888ft tower on the same site and ended up not paying the rent, did he think we forgot
build a 100,000 seater stadium south of mandalay bay, i have the patriots and manchester united "under contract" to play there if you do.........
This is a Great idea. First, let's raise taxes to pay for it so no private money has to be involved. Why limit it to a local tax district, make it Clark County wide so instead of a 25% increase, we can adverise that the increase is only 5%. Then we can sign over the whole operation to the Monorail Board so they will be able to milk it for even more dollars (into their own pockets). A suggested name for this would be the Mormon Church Peoples Tax Financed Stadiumn Complex. Why not ask Steve Wynn to implode his casino to make a even more conveinent location for a strip stadium. We can add a 'Gentleman's Club' on the top floor of the new stadium complex to make it even more inviting. The possibilities are endless to make money for 'private enterprise' at taxpayer expense.
how is this going to effect the sports book industry--will they stop taking nba action all year??? or only on vegas team versus opponent??? no future bets on nba???? as crooked as these players are and the refs i can imagine all sorts of gambling problems with this. nba players have a huge history of gambling related problems. This town seems more suited to professional hockey.
I think it's a great idea! The only reason people come to Vegas to gamble is because that is the only thing you CAN do. If we had more to offer we would be able to attract more people. (An amusement or water park would be nice too) There are more than gamblers in the world. We already have the popularity as a nice vacation spot. We should use that to our advantage and attract more people. Besides it will give our locals more to do. If we have to pay a little to benefit in the long run I'm for it. At least we're paying to get something in return.
This is great opportunity. If not anything, this will give chance to attach the city inhabitants to the city. People will start saying this is our city, this is our team.
One of the reason this city has not reached its potential is people here don't feel attached to the city. What does Phoenix has that Vegas doesn't have???
They want the stadium then they can go out and get their own financing. Let them set up some kind of public offering and sell stocks or bonds to the public like the average corporation. Why should the residents of Clark County have to finance anything like this? The argument about creating jobs does not cut it. Let these guys pool their funds together and put together their own project. If it takes off then great. If it fails then they bear the loss..and not the taxpayers. It is the American way.
No ifs or buts and definitely NO TAXPAYERS money!!!!!
PEANUTS, GET YOUR PEANUTS. COLD BEER HERE. I'm unemployed, I'm practicing for my interview. I wonder if I can tell them that I have experience now. Oh well, PEANUTS! COLD BEER!
It was a sunny afternoon for baseball, so excited were three fans they rushed to park the car near the ball park, walking from the congestion the rest of the way.
A few short steps was traffic-dick in the road who said something inaudible amongst the chatting boys -- abruptly one lad stops -- the others stop, what did that cop just say?
I don't know -- let's go back and ask.
Excuse us officer, what did you just say?
I asked "where do you want your white bones buried boys"?
What do you mean by that replied one of the boys.
Look boys I am here to stop you folks from going down that street.
What street should we take replied the boys in unison.
One block, that way pointed the officer.
You just can't make this stuff up.
: {
Well start to practice rejection!!! Because the customer is going to say , What $12 for 12 oz. beer......I am going to the casino to get them for free with my gambling fun.
If this was such a good idea......Why didn' t Bugsy Siegel do it back in the 40s.
You will get more people with 99 cents breakfast then NBA. You need to go back to what was working then to let Corporations change everything Vegas was about, "Gambling".
Martin,
In case you weren't paying attention the Coyotes got a brand new stadium along with every other sports team in Phoenix. None of them have helped the city. In fact, most economists agree that public investment in stadiums is a money loser.
Jlaw,
Is that $150 million in gross revenue or net? Do you also realize that every dollar spent at a stadium is also a dollar not spent elsewhere in Las Vegas. If people substitute basketball for gambling, or drinking or shopping or whatever, then there is no net gain for the city.
http://oversight.house.gov/index.php?opt...
"Academic research on the value to economic development, however, has universally concluded that sports stadiums, convention centers and hotels do not increase economic activity in downtown areas."
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/f...
http://www.lewrockwell.com/french/french...
http://reason.com/archives/2004/11/12/ba...
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_...
Most generous one I can find states that "people are stupid enough to fall for it" http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/72045...
http://www.oswego.edu/~dighe/stadium.ppt...
http://www.oswego.edu/~dighe/stadium.ppt...
http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/9...
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa...
http://reason.tv/video/show/take-us-out-...
http://www.thesportseconomist.com/
http://vimeo.com/12239959
02/16/2009
The NBA is set to borrow $175 million Feb. 26, marking one of the first league financings since the implosion of the credit markets last fall.
The money, which will be available to 15 teams, supplements an existing $1.7 billion leaguewide credit facility that uses the NBA's media contracts as collateral to secure loans for the clubs. The NBA surveyed its teams, and 15 responded they would like to tap into the new borrowing.
While the league said it is pleased to borrow in an extremely illiquid credit market, the deal came at a cost, with interest rates up to 8.27 percent, hammering home the notion that the era of cheap money in sports is over. The 15 teams can use the money for any purpose, but covering operating losses may be high on the list.
"In this economic environment, it's tremendous that the league can place such a facility," said Alex Martins, chief operating officer of the Orlando Magic, which plans to borrow from the new debt. "It certainly helps us bridge the time period between now and when we move into our new events center in 2010. We've been operating at a $15 [million] to $20 million [annual] loss over the past half-dozen years, so it helps us."
Each of the 15 teams can borrow a maximum of $11.66 million from the debt proceeds.
The private-placement deal was arranged by JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America. In a private placement, non-banking lenders such as pension funds and insurers extend the cash, commonly at fixed rates for five- to seven-year terms and at rates higher than what banks offer for floating-rate loans.
contined -
Harvey Benjamin, the NBA's executive counsel for business and finance, said it's important not to compare the rates with what the NBA had been paying before the credit market collapse -- about 200 to 300 interest points less for similar debt, sources said -- but rather, what borrowers of similar standing are paying in today's environment. In that light, he said, the 8.27 percent the NBA will pay on $100 million of the debt, and the 7.45 percent on the remaining $75 million, is favorable.
"It shows how the NBA is viewed by the credit markets," he said.
Rob Tilliss, a former JPMorgan Chase sports banker who runs his own sports boutique, Inner Circle Sports, agreed that given the market conditions, the NBA's rates are hardly extreme.
"That is an outstanding execution," he said.
The NBA was not looking to borrow at this time, Benjamin said, but JPMorgan and Bank of America came to the league several weeks ago to say there was an opportunity to do so. The league, after polling its teams and finding a need, agreed to the deal in part because of the lack of borrowing opportunities since the fall. Benjamin would not reveal which teams plan to borrow from the placement.
Tilliss said that over the last few weeks there has been a slight opening in the credit market for investment-grade borrowers like the NBA.
The NBA deal comes in the context of a changing landscape for the leaguewide credit facilities. Once cheap sources of loans, the banks that manage the loan pools have soured on them and have been unwilling to renew at the old terms. The NFL and MLB were both unable to renew their deals late last year and termed out. That means the debt automatically converted into a fixed-rate loan and triggered amortization and slightly higher rates.
Benjamin declined to say if the NBA would term out of its credit facility in May when some of it matures, but he conceded that the league is in discussions with its banks to develop alternatives.
Of the NBA's $1.7 billion facility, $1 billion is from short-term loans that renew annually. This would be the segment that would term out if the league were to go in that direction. The remainder, like the pending deal, consists of private placements.
The new private placement is rated BBB-plus by Fitch Ratings, the NBA said.
http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/art...
Great Post Cynicalobserver. As usually the information you have provided make sense, and is fact. Thanks for sharing your knownledge and insight.
I will say it again, I do not want to pay for a sport stadium. I will remember any commissioner who will push an inch for this proposal.
Sorry Martin but every dollar spent on a stadium is a dollar that can't be spent elsewhere. Most economists agree that entertainment dollars are limited and sport stadiums simply mean people won't spend their entertainment dollars elsewhere.
When you shuffle $1 from one sector of your economy to another you aren't creating a stimulus.
Please don't fall for this plan. The Indiana Pacers threatened to leave if they didn't get a new arena so the city built them one. They play there rent free, get all revenue from parking, concessions and yet they claim they have lost money every year except for one that they have been in Indiana. Now they are threatening to leave Indy again even though they are in the middle of a 20 year agreement with the city. If they leave now they have to pay the city 150 million. But low and behold our cowardly city leaders think it would make us less of a city to not have a NBA team so they caved in and are now giving the Pacers...get this...an additional 33.5 million dollars over 3 years. This to an owner who is already a billionaire. Everyone said let them leave and pay the penalty. The city could do a lot with the 150 million they would have to pay. Of course we thought no city would offer them a better deal but maybe they have Vegas as their backup plan.
Meanwhile the city is closing libraries or cutting hours because of a million dollar deficity, bus services are being cut, arts funding has pretty much been completely eliminated, sidewalks and crumbling, we are under a mandate from the EPA to rebuild our entire sewer system and water/sewer bills have already doubled to pay for that and are going to double again. The taxpayers have been sucked dry here in Indianapolis by billionaires and they still want more. We had to increase our food/beverage tax 1% to pay for the Colts new stadium along with the 1% increase to pay for the Pacers new arena. Thats 2% on top of the 7% sales tax everytime you eat out.
Please don't let them sucker the taxpayers into paying for this arena. It will just be them asking for more all the time and threatening to leave if they don't get it.
Irving: We are not Indiana, Vegas would have the same crazy fans as LA. I for one would buy two season tickets the instant the arena had them for sale, as would almost everyone else who could afford it in this 2 mil person city.
[ROLLS EYES]
< Biggest group of stiffs in history--bar none!>
Absolutely!!!! Back in the day , my friends and I hung out in a bar/restaurant in downtown Chicago. The Chicago Bulls were frequent visitors (yes, even Michael Jordan with his femme du jour). All were nice BUT the servers and bartenders hated it because these guys were so cheap!! WE tipped better then they did and these guys were making millions!!
<The Cavaliers generated $3.7 million in revenue per game last year, that's more than $151 million a season. Sure that's with LeBron on the team, but it just gives you a sense of what could be had.>
The important thing here is "that's with LeBron on the team". Vegas isn't going to get a "LeBron" on their team at first They will field a team (sorry for the baseball analogies; I'm a big baseball fan and don't know any other way to describe certain things) that is anywhere from above average to very very good, with maybe some budding superstars in the mix.
Again - it all depends on the team!! If the team is very very good with those budding superstars - it WILL draw in the fans and make a crap load of money. If not - it may take a few years to build the team and the revenues from it. You cannot depend on those kinds of figures at first. But maybe some of those hard partying, hard gambling superstar NBA players would like coming to Vegas to be near the action....contracts permitting or who ever is eligible for free agency. IF that would happen - then it would be a win win win situation. And that's a big IF.
<Irving: We are not Indiana, Vegas would have the same crazy fans as LA.>
Did you read his post? Did you understand it? Indianapolis is suffering because the powers that be would rather have given a bunch of millionaires MORE money at the cost of the residents.
Yeah, the residents of Vegas will be so happy taxes will be going up and for what? You have the highest foreclosure rate, the highest unemployment rate, but that's okay!! Raise the sales tax, create new taxes, get money any way you can - just what so many need right now to worry about besides making ends meet for basic necessities all because having an NBA team would be cool and there would be 500 people willing to buy season tickets.
You NEVER want public funds involved in sports arenas or teams because it will not help the City, it will make things worse if things don't work out and the team starts losing money. Can Vegas and Clark County afford that? Can the residents afford that?
You'd be the first to complain when your tax bill goes up because no more will your real estate taxes be what they are now. Instead of paying $1500 a year, you'll be ponying up $4000 a year and your sales tax will be hiked up to 11-12% all because you want season tickets to go see an "unnamed NBA team".
Get real.
dont use public money and dont build it on the strip, but do build a sports complex. How about the bankrupt Spanish View Tower Homes site?
While I understand most of the comments against public financing to build an arena, I must say that an NBA franchise if Vegas is a great idea! There is no way a city the size of Vegas should be without a major sports franchise. The arena would not only have NBA games, but concerts, NCAA basketball games and other types of entertainment throughout the year. Not exactly what I would call seasonal employment.
I know Vegas has its problems, but you guys live in a great and exciting city. Diversification of the economy and entertainment choices can lead to Vegas becoming a world class city. It can happen if you believe!
I said this on another related thread, but I'll post it again. I will oppose public financing for an arena the same day the CCSD is privatized.
Until then, my leisure dollar will not be wasted on gaming, but rather to -Real- sporting events in LA, San Diego, and Phoenix.... as well as the gas to get to and from.
Comment removed by moderator. Language.
Sevenhills I'm well aware Vegas isn't Indiana. However I'm not sure if you are aware of it or not but Indiana is notorious for basketball. Maybe you have heard of someone named Bobby Knight.
Anyway the point was that even in the best of times the Pacers said they weren't making money. I don't know of many businesses that operate for 23 years and don't make money. However the owners refuse to open their books to show that they are not making money..."just take our word for it." And of course the gullible city officials believe them. In addition to the city giving them 33.5 million dollars over 3 years the Pacers are already saying that the Conseco Fieldhouse is outdated and they want new scoreboards, electronic tickertape type screens,new IT hardware etc added and of course the city agreed to that also. Meanwhile they pay nothing to play there and keep ALL REVENUE FROM ALL EVENTS(CONCERTS/NCAA BASKETBALL TOURNAMENTS)...PARKING/CONCESSIONS.
All I'm saying is that our cities are broke and the cities continue to give money to millionaire owners while basic services are being cut to the actual people paying the bills...the taxpayers.
The people of Indy would love it if the Pacers left, we could get to keep the revenue and put it towards paying off the cost of the building.
ps-thanks det munch for understanding my posting. Maybe those seven hills are so high up they are lacking in oxygen.
An NBA franchise would do well in this city regardless if an arena is built or not.
DetMunch... I appreciate your points but give you this: Hockey and Basketball run from Late Sept to Early April... through mid June if they go to the NBA Finals. So they would be 7+ months at the onset, longer as they make it to the playoffs. Once you have these teams you could attract an Arena Football team and WNBA. These, plus events, give you a very busy building.
Renters fill vacant homes at the very least. 2 teams give you a few hundred homes no longer vacant - at any level.
Sure you have to win, but all teams have that same goal. You can't predict success or failure day 1. If you can even contend for the playoffs you will fill seats. Don't write off the team as bad when they haven't even signed here.
Yes, I've owned Season tickets and they are not cheap, but they are cheaper than gambling and this would be, for some, their entertainment of choice. Plus, many groups of people get together and split the season tickets 3, 4 or more ways - which make it affordable for those that split the season. Companies would buy season tickets as well. I feel confident that the tix would sell. The seats upstairs get affordable - especially for game to game seats.
Pat R G - Tell that to the success stories in Phoenix and Los Angeles. I'm not looking at "studies" I'm looking at real world experience out there.
Don't over think a good idea. For Vegas to grow as a city we need other culture for our citizens and visitors..not just gaming. Sports, The Arts, Museums... they all lift up the city's cache - which attracts visitors and business.
Diversity can't hurt and we're not talking about billions of dollars.
Yeah, we can still watch a game on the tv at PT's... and hope the team we bet on wins - oh what fun!?
"CNBC ranks Nevada 47th among top states for business"
Yeah, I think we could use some diversity in the business world here...
With a few exceptions, the NBA games are the only events that would bring in additional work, visitors, and revenues.
The concerts, NHL games, and the like are already produced elsewhere in town.
Producing them (concerts, etc) at a new arena only moves the location of the event across town, it does NOT inject anything "new" into the economy.
With that in mind, how many NBA games does it take to pay off $115 million and replace the revenues lost from tax breaks, etc.
Answer: It never pays off.
It wont work, and the team will be gone in 5 - 6 years. Am I the only one who remembers NBA All Star weekend and what a mess it was? Is that the kind of "business" we want to attract?
I cannot believe the ignorance of most people. Did you read the same article I did? Did you read the whole thing? Did you understand it? This proposed arena project will not take the homes of poor people. It will not be built with public money. It will not choke the city with traffic. It will not be a guaranteed money loser. It will not produce only minimum wage jobs. It will not revert to the County if the owners go bankrupt. Pay attention people. Here are a few facts that seem to be missed here. 1. This will create both construction jobs and permanent operations jobs (who is against creating badly needed jobs? Chris G and Sharon Angle are the only ones with their hands up). 2. The $125M consideration Milam has reqeusted is only a waiver of in INCREASE in property taxes AFTER the arena is operational (you right-wing tax-abolishing nut-jobs should surely support waiving a tax increase right?). 3. This property and surrounding area is currently vacant, abandoned, or in need of an update (have you gambled at Fountainbleu or been sliding at Wet-n-Wild lately? Why not? Oh yeah, because they do not exist.). 4. People are not losing their homes (well, perhaps homeless people living on this dirt lot might have to re-locate. I know, let's give them bus fare to Salt Lake City). 5. If this Valley wants to diversify and create jobs, it is going to have to put out honey to attract bees (we all say that we need to diversify but, do your homework on how businesses are attracted to other cities. In the case of very large operations, it is almost always done through a tax abatement or waiver of some kind by the municipality - this is a fact). 6. It will not have a negative impact on traffic (OK, so traffic is slower for about an hour after 25-30 events per year?? Big deal, it's the strip. Last time I checked, the casinos would prefer you drive by them very slowly so they can get your attention. God forbid anyone decides to pull over and gamble, have dinner, or do some shopping). 7. The only reason the Commissioners are not pushing this forward is because they are bought and paid for by the competition (namely, MGM & Harrahs don't want this to go. Not because they can do better but, because they want their cut first). 8. We do not have a PRO sports venue in this city (regardless of what you might think, the NBA can't/won't put a team in T&M, MGM, or Orleans due to size, lack of luxury revenue. This is simple economics people). Wake up and get your facts straight.
LVMD,
The real story is that the Phoenix re development is a big economic flop. The giant hotel they built never fills, the convention center is a bust, the light rail loses $30 million a year. The stadiums are sucking up more tax dollars than they are generating. Finally, what you've failed to address every time is the REALITY, that entertainment dollars are limited and that any dollar of government subsidized development is a dollar of development (or something else) that cannot be done in another part of town.
And what do you think studies do for goodness sake? They study reality? The economists look at the data that is produced by the projects existence and then they tell you if the project produced any of the claims proponents made when they sold the projects to the public.
One of the reports was bold enough to ask why the public was "Stupid enough" to keep subsidizing stadiums.
Vegas,
Sorry, but it will be built using some public funds and I bet it will be backed 100% by public funds. If investors fail to recoup their investor, I bet the taxpayers will be forced to step in. If the building can't pay back its loans, I bet taxpayers will be forced step in. If it flops, I bet taxpayers will be forced to step in.
Most economists agree, stadium subsidies are a waste because 1) sports teams can afford their own stadium 2) the subsidies redistribute wealth from poor to rich 3) eliminate spending/development elsewhere in town 4) generate no additional economic activity 5) don't produce more tax revenue than they consumed.
Taxpayer backed stadiums are a lose-lose situation for the people of Las Vegas and Clark County.
I'll just add to Patrick_R's points by stating:
A) we're talking about far more than 25-30 events per year: 41 regular season games alone (if an NBA team ever DID come here), plus all other events the venue might schedule.
B) One can easily imagine inadequate parking on the same lot where proposed arena would be built, thus a private campaign to go after property in the residential neighborhoods just north of Sahara for the purposes of "satellite parking" is not far-fetched
C) Contrary to claims by an above poster, the story clearly says that "two (of the three plans) call for ... public bonds that fund construction" and then there's Milam's hustle, which would take $125 mil. of property taxes raised (each year, presumably) and instead of putting it towards education, public hospitals, or re-hiring city and county employees who have lost their jobs to budget cuts, this precious public money will go to Milam's corporate welfare.
The promises of 7,000 permanent jobs coming from this is BS, just as the price tag of only $400 mil. is BS. A big NO THANK YOU to the few hundred, seasonal, minimum-wage, concessionaire and usher jobs. Southern Nevada needs to get serious about higher-up-the-food chain economic development. This kind of corporate welfare crap not only wastes our time, but further damages the community and the integrity of the tax base.
<Sorry, but it will be built using some public funds and I bet it will be backed 100% by public funds. If investors fail to recoup their investor, I bet the taxpayers will be forced to step in. If the building can't pay back its loans, I bet taxpayers will be forced step in. If it flops, I bet taxpayers will be forced to step in.>
Again, Patrick sums it up in a nutshell. And yes, his posts are very informative. Also, for those who are so gung ho about this - talk to anyone you know from any city in this country whose city was screwed by some sports team owner and promises (yes that includes Indianapolis and Chicago off the top of my head). Having the citizens end up paying for a new arena in the form of raising taxes will send Vegas into the "Cities With High Tax Rates" etc. category. The low tax base saves Las Vegas because as we all know there is no infrastructure, job diversification, mass transit, etc. If the County wants to raise taxes - DO IT for the right reasons such as helping the schools, social services, teh police dept. Don't do it to support a bunch of gazillionaires.
However - if the County wants to gamble here: Unless an agreement/contract between the private owners and the County is IRONCLAD with provisions to PROTECT the County and the taxpayers from having to pay for this for the next 50-75 years and by then the building itself will be old and obsolete for the past 30 years - you CANNOT have public money involved in these things!! Let the County be the beneficiary of some of the profits. Regardless how badly people may want it or how badly everyone thinks it is going to help Las Vegas or how slickly the private owners will present their case to teh County and the residents, public monies should NEVER be used.
Sorry Patrick and Munch but, by my name, you can see that I have been here for 20years. But, what you don't know is that I came here from Indy (born and raised there). I have an office there, and my entire family is still there. So, I am intimately familiar with their arena situation. My cousin sits on the CIB and negotiated these deals. The fact is, the Colts are among the most valuable franchises in sports. The Pacers were also at the top for NBA until that fateful night in Detroit where Ron Artest ruined everything. The reason that Conseco has not been a huge success had nothing to do with the city deal. It had to do with lack of management of the team and the thugish behavior the players elicited. This relationship has still not been repaired. Nor, is it likely to be, unless they manage to win a Championship. Which is very unlikely to ever occur. You contend that this is "taking away" money from schools, health, other programs. Hello, this is money that is not there in the first place. And, if we do not build the arena, it will never be there anyway. This is simple math. Today: 0-0 = ZERO, or in 2014: $700M - $150M = $550M X .081 = $44.5 Million freaking dollars of new revenue to spend on whatever is needed (obviously, from your posts, education spending should be at the top of that list). Time to grow up Vegas and become a real city. Real cities take on big things. Finally, I know for a fact that that traffic studies on the arena show that only 5% of the events will cause travel delays for a period approx. 60mins. BFD.
BTW, quit with the "I bet that" assumptions as if you present your comments as some sort of fact. If you don't know what you are saying keep your pie hole shut. Because, in this case, you are clueless. Take your predictions to the sports book and see how you do with them. Good luck, you will need it.
I am sorry that you clowns don't want us to come out of the recession, create jobs, and move forward. Is this about $150M, or the fact that you are still not over the last election cycle? Bitter bitter old men, your time has passed. Beaten by simple math, how ironic.
Vegas,
That isn't how it works, sorry. All redevelopment financing is paid for by shuffling money from one area of town to another.
If the tickets that will be sold are dollars that come from some other entertainment venue.
The extra events that come to the stadium will probably be events that were in other convention centers in town the year before.
Academic study after academic study bears this out.
and no its not $0, you're ignoring the tax dollars collected in the redevelopment area currently being used in other ways (or tax dollars not collected because the tax has not been raised, and the money spent in other ways).
More on this issue: http://www.npri.org/publications/rolling...
Sorry Pat... Phoenix and Los Angels are two recent BIG success stories. There are negatives in those as well, but the positives outweigh the negative. Both cities are far more well respected than Las Vegas in all circles of business, education, economics and personal growth. Pull all the stats and research you want... you can dig up studies to support anything. The reality is this could work and work very well. OR, another PT's would be just as good, right. No, check that... we'll make it a PT's GOLD. OOOOhhhhhh LAaaaaLaaaa!
Why don't you three economic geniuses join the 10 residents over at Turnberry Place 3 that have signed a petition to stop SSA. Sounds like a winner to me.
Economists can't color outside the lines. That's what entreprenuership is all about; vision. Like Vegas20 said, its time for this city to grow the F up.
Basketball? There's probably more money in the soccer community these days. Just throw up a couple goals in a field off the strip and be done with it.
If you build it, they will come. Just do it! LOL!
Instead of looking for reasons not to do anything, I believe we should focus our energy and thinking on how to make it happen. After all, Las Vegas was built by people who dared to dream big and willing to take the risk. I find a lot of the new comers in lack of this spirit.
If you build it, they will come. Just do it!
Those against a stadium forget where they are living and remember where they lived.
We are a tourist and convention town. Any other town that has built a stadium for professional sports is not. The stadium sets empty 300 days a year.
How many days does the convention center sit empty? The MGM Arena?? The Mandalay Bay arena??
Here, the "temp" jobs are real jobs to many and they work the many events almost like other people work their "real" job in another city.
The number of new events that could be housed there and would be created because of it, are too numerous to mention.
We need a new stadium, not a professional team. A pro team would do more damage to the convention and tourist business than it would do good.
We need another arena with limited, 25,000 capacity, like a stiff neck. How many such sized arenas already exist in the U.S. that are never fully utilized year around? Will this keep the NFR here? Will this bring national convention crowds here? Will this improve traffic and parking on the strip area?
There needs to be a new arena but how about 50,000 seating with a multipurpose plan for more than hockey and basketball? How about a place where parking will be easier and traffic along the strip will not become more congested and impossible to move? Las Vegas moguls in gaming and resorts need to think big and think about these things and the future. It is time to stop thinking hicktown and think major city with big time prospects for more than one or two sports.