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Sunday, July 11, 2010 | 2 a.m.
It’s another sweltering afternoon in Las Vegas, and a 33-year-old woman is sitting in front of her home computer wearing pink fuzzy slippers as she breaks federal law yet again.
Two cats brush up against her sweatpants as she pulls up a website called PokerStars.com and clicks “cashier” and then “buy chips.” She enters her bank routing number and checking account number onto the site, along with a promotional code grabbed from a magazine ad. Within seconds, she has deposited $10 into an online gambling account, with PokerStars matching that amount. The money is instantaneously available for play — no schlepping to the casino, sitting down at a table or waiting for the dealer to shuffle cards. With a click of the mouse, she enters a fast-moving game, becoming one of more than 200,000 people worldwide — many of the them in the United States — playing for money on PokerStars at this very moment.
As the World Series of Poker tournament draws thousands of poker aficionados to Las Vegas this month, many gamblers prefer to play in the privacy of their homes despite efforts by the federal government to make that more difficult.
Hundreds of thousands of Americans are still gambling online weeks after a federal law prohibiting Internet gambling transactions went into effect June 1 — nearly four years after it passed Congress in October 2006.
“It’s not stopping people who have an online checking account and a high speed Internet connection,” said John Pappas, executive director of the Poker Players Alliance, a group of more than 1 million poker players that is lobbying for the legalization of online poker. “This has really been a bump in the road rather than a major disruption,” said Pappas, adding that many members have successfully migrated to various underground payment methods over the past three years.
The Las Vegas woman who frequently plays poker online isn’t familiar with the rocky regulatory history of gambling on the Internet. But she knew something was awry a few days ago when she tried to deposit money on PokerStars using her debit card. Although that method previously worked on another gambling site, PokerStars told her that U.S. banks wouldn’t accept the transaction. The site suggested she try “Instant eCheck” instead, a quick fix that involved clicking a different box on the website and entering her checking account information.
Electronic checks are among ways poker sites and customers are bypassing federal restrictions on online gambling. Some players are wiring cash from bank accounts using services such as Western Union and MoneyGram. Others have gone a step further, setting up bank accounts in countries that are not subject to U.S. banking laws.
Although the Justice Department has long maintained that Internet gambling is illegal, regulators and enforcement agencies have not targeted individuals for prosecution, giving many gamblers the impression that what they are doing is legal, or at least acceptable enough to let friends and colleagues know they are doing it.
And yet, there’s no mistaking what the federal government’s position has been for years. In 2007, a U.S. attorney in Missouri testified before Congress that Internet gambling “poses an unacceptable risk due to the potential for gambling by minors and compulsive gambling” and is ripe for fraud, money-laundering and involvement by organized crime. As an example, federal prosecutors in New York in 2005 charged alleged associates of the Gambino crime family with setting up false, offshore Internet gambling accounts that allowed them to deduct losses on their income taxes using anonymous messenger bettors — part of an illegal gambling and money-laundering scheme that resulted in multiple guilty pleas.
Such concerns are far off the radar for the Las Vegas woman, who talks about playing online as one might discuss playing Scrabble, reading magazines or surfing the Internet. Nor does she feel as if she’s breaking any laws — although she has declined to reveal her identity, just in case.
“I can sit at home and play whenever I want and whatever I want. I play for fun, for pennies. Or I’ll play $1 or $5 tournaments,” she said. “I can just wake up and play without having to take a shower and leave the house.”
Rather than targeting players, websites or even banks, the Justice Department is focusing enforcement efforts on the middlemen who process Internet gambling transactions for Web casinos.
The latest evidence is the April arrest of an Australian man in Las Vegas on charges that he processed $500 million in Internet gambling transactions for U.S. players. According to a federal indictment, Daniel Tzvetkoff processed the bets using a primary U.S. banking system for electronic fund transfers called the Automated Clearing House network, wiring the funds to offshore Internet gambling companies. Tzvetkoff disguised the transactions so that banks wouldn’t know they were gambling-related by creating dozens of shell companies with unrelated names and phony websites. He stopped processing gambling transactions in March 2009 after major Internet gambling sites accused him of stealing from them, according to the indictment. He is charged with four counts including bank fraud, money laundering and violating the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act.
Online gambling slowed in the United States after the 2006 passage of the act, which prompted some high-profile gambling websites to stop accepting wagers from Americans and instead restrict their business to foreign shores. But traffic picked up once players found other ways to gamble online. In the years leading up to the law taking effect last month, some websites have continued to serve the U.S. market as they used high-profile poker players to lobby Congress to legalize Internet gambling, especially online poker.
Well before 2006, many U.S. banks responded to a growing crackdown by voluntarily blocking credit and debit card transactions for online gambling transactions, which are identified by a specific banking code.
Some sites that still take U.S. bets are using loopholes in the 4-year-old law to their advantage, online gambling proponents say. Although the act specifically prohibits credit and debit card transactions, it doesn’t rule out electronic checks, mailed checks or some of the other creative ways players are funding gambling accounts.
Moreover, those who handle the bets and payouts are figuring out how to disguise the nature of Internet gambling transactions despite banking efforts to block those that are coded as such. That’s one of the many reasons why the banking industry has always opposed the law. The law turns banks into “police, prosecutors and judges in place of real law enforcement officers,” said Jonathan Snowling, a spokesman for the American Bankers Association.
The act “exposes banks to unwarranted liabilities and leads to compliance traps that damage the competitiveness of the American payments system,” Snowling said. “This is really an unprecedented delegation of governmental responsibility with no prospect of practical success in exchange for the burden it imposes.”
Besides spurring several Internet gambling providers to get out of the business, the 2006 law has slowed online gambling profits by spooking some U.S. players fearful of further enforcement efforts by the federal government.
Some casual players no longer play online, in part because they had grown accustomed to using credit cards that are now off-limits, said Dan Michalski, editor of poker blog Pokerati.com in Las Vegas. “The crackdowns have weeded out some of the more recreational players,” resulting in more difficult games for occasional players, he said.
And yet, the majority of games available for play on PokerStars and FullTilt, the two largest poker sites available in the United States, are small-stakes games for pennies or a few dollars per hand.
Which makes the Las Vegas woman — who doesn’t fit the stereotype of the online gambler as a bleary-eyed, cash-poor professional — closer to a typical online poker player.
Playing penny-ante games that bricks and mortar casinos couldn’t afford to offer, even in a recession, she might lose or win a few bucks a day.
Instead of organizing home games as she did in her home state of Michigan, the four-year resident of Las Vegas, like many of her local friends, can easily find a low-stakes game online.
Live poker is more social than online play, but she likes having the option of disabling the “chat” mechanism online to prevent unwanted comments and undesirable personalities at the poker table.
She also likes variety, trying poker offshoots such as Badugi that aren’t commonly available in casinos, especially at low stakes.
“It’s more relaxed. And it gives me absolute freedom,” she says, leaning over to pet one of her cats. “I don’t have to go down to the casino and park the car.”
Even if online gambling is against federal law, authorities have yet to turn up the heat on players; the temperature outside, on the other hand, is 106 degrees.
By playing poker online, you enter a completely new world. at first glance, it all looks so bright. the way of passing time, the chance to make money, sharpen your skills, and the entertainment value.
on the other side, there are side effects. the flip side of the coin, so-to-say. The more you play online, the more your change. sleeping habits change, you become more and more anti-social, as you don't even have to go out anymore to get into the game. and , unless you're not very successful, it can also become quite dangerous, for yourself and your families. overplaying and falling into the credit card trap is another way of destroying yourself.
Side effects of this way of "gaming" could also be for instance back problems and insomnia. I faced the 2 latter problems but never ruined myself financially playing online poker. I just lost interest in the games because I think there are other ways in life than online poker. And since I quit playing online, my life has changed dramatically.
This may sound like an "anti-online-poker"-advertising, but it's not. It's just my way of seing things in this regard. It can be something you do for fun, but if you like to make money from it, you either have to play for higher stakes or spend long hours behind the computer. Both ways are a very risky mission and I am not the only one to turn his back on this way of "entertainment".
From Switzerland
Thanks a lot, Boris, for your comment opening my eyes on the disadvantages of online poker.
I have never ever played online poker so far, and I will never play online poker having read the article and your posting.
Great commnent on your personal experiences made playing online poker.
Regards
Banana_Joe
Banana_Joe
Yes, I am glad you liked it. Although I am sure that there are many readers that will probably disagree with my posting. But it's only logical: Picture this: At Pokerstars there are about 200,000 to 250,000 players online at the peak hours. They must be from some country, right? Obviously, there are many Americans playing at Pokerstars, too. And the more players are playing, the chances that all of them are not making money are nil. Therefore, there are always a few guys making big money and they of course will not disagree with me that the side effects of this kind of "gaming" may be harmful for your body and your soul.
I do see things completely different from 4 years ago when I was playing online almost every single day and for not less than 6 to 8 hours daily. Take this for granted.
Although I think that the US government is not so much against it because of the negavite side effects but much rather because of the lack of receiving tax money, there is no question about the negative side of this sort of "gaming".
Today, I know that I will visit Las Vegas 2x/year and I have a bankroll that's big enough to keep me in action for 3 to 4 weeks while I am in Vegas. I can play my favorite games, I do play live action poker but also I like the videopoker machines. But that's about it. I see the faces I grew up with over the past 20 years of visiting Las Vegas. I remember many of these faces, but I can only add this one: It's a grind if you try to make a living, and it's probably not making the kind of people happy who play every day in these poker rooms. In fact, I think it's really putting a change on these people. Therefore: Don't overplay as otherwise life starts playing funny games on you :)
From Switzerland
Online poker is full of collusion and players using hand tracking software to give them an unfair advantage. Besides full tilt and pokerstars the rest of the sites can be very shady. They have very few games and ultimate bet which is pimped by Phil helmuth and Annie duke has been involved in huge cheating scandals involving Russ Hamilton a former wsop champion.
And face this: The idea off all the television shows (Poker after Dark, Highstakes Poker, etc), it is clear what they target: They're trying to sell the illusion as if poker is mainly a game of skill. Which, as it turns out, is not true. As long as enough people believe this hype, these online sites generate enough fresh player material to keep the games alive. Ever wondered how much rake is being generated from the 100,000+ active cash games running at the peak hours of the biggest sites?
They need celebrities and other "famous people" to sell the illusion among the rest of the players as if poker is an easy and beatable way of making loads of money the fast way. Whenever one of the online qualifiers wins a major tournament, that's the perfect picture of a winning pro and where it all began: Online!
Interacting players through skype and other mobile devices, player tracking software, and hense, even "bots" playing automatically , that's all stuff that's destroying the integrity and reputation of fair online poker. Not mentioning the sites using other dirty tricks such as super user accounts and perhaps internal robot players to make a killing on the other players.
I am glad I quit playing poker online. I did so before it made a killing on me.
From Switzerland
Would like to offer a different view of online poker than Boris. There are several advantages and disavantages with online poker, just like everything else in life. I'll touch on both.Advantages are: 1. You can play at home instead of driving x amount to a casino. You save gas, who knows how much can save not playing slots, craps, blackjack, or whatever else you might do. And your safe at home, no worries about getting robbed or having too much to drink and driving home or getting in any kind of trouble.
2. The rake is low and tipping cocktail servers, pit bosses, nor dealers not required. Not that I mind tipping, but...the point is, online is surely the most economic way to play. One can play multiple screens at a time as well.
3. Can't beat the tournament equity. You won't find a 10 dollar tournament in any casino which offers a quarter-million guaranteed prizepool or more, but you find it every week on pokerstars. Plus other amazing payouts on tournaments as low as 1$,very little risk. You also can't find, say, 1 cent/2 cent cash games in any casino, but you can online. I live in an area that has tons of casinos and I can't tell you how much money I have saved playing online and avoiding the temptations of casinos. In sum, cost effective. Some of the disadvantages:
1. People are better players online. Did I just say that? Well, it's true. They can see how much the pot is, how much chips in front of them, can make good bets without thinking, the decisions are layed out in front of them. Also, they can automatically click 1/2 pot, pot size, or all-in buttons. Also, can use tracking software that a skillful player can more easily know what kind of player you are without having to pay much attention to the game. As of yet, these are considered aids and not cheating. sharkscope and mzone are two that come to mind.
2. It's an anti-social activity.
3. Much harder to read tells, since you cannot see the people you are playing against.
4. Online has experienced cheating scandals. Usually higher stakes using super-user accounts that can see hole cards. Also online can pose collusion problems as well. People who know each other who play on the same table and share information. A slight advantage, but an advantage none-the-less.
To end this, I'd like to see online poker legal, regulated, and taxed. Make the games safe and fair.
Anyway, I see online poker like online stocktrading...a few winners, alot of losers, in moderation can be a fun activity without getting hurt too much, in excess, can ruin both social and financial means.
Usually I deposit 100 to 250 dollars in either pokerstars or fulltilt about once a month or once every two months. I've won some money, and lost some money. But I never got as hurt as in the casinos where some of my worst days was well over a 1,000 dollars...playing online, it would take me at least 4 months or longer to lose that in bad sessions.
Hey Boris,
me, I am also glad you did quit playing poker online, because now I really see the implications of playing online poker with almighty super users manipulating the online games in different unfair ways. The average player will almost always lose out that way.
The ability to pay by credit card withdrawal is also very tempting and dangerous, because you are losing control of your online spendings very quickly.
Most important to me: you always are alone, playing against many virtual players (e.g. a server farm), which do not even have to exist in reality, because you cannot see anybody face to face, not even the server machine.
I always love to play video poker or the video roulette machines in Vegas casinos, where I can even play with several physically existing players together in front of ONE virtual player -the computer/machine- with no other virtual players around. Just the real guys and me against the machine, that's exciting.
That's why... I love the Vegas experience. Take care.
Regards
Banana_Joe
I have asked a lot of online players this question and after they think about it for a while they all say the same thing." What if you wake up one morning, log into your account ask for a withdrawl and they tell you NO!!!!!" What would you do or should I say what could you do? There is nothing you can do because it is illegal and a thief can"t cry cop.
what i dont understand in these computer games is how do you know if your getting a square deal.who shuffles and deals the cards.is it a computer.how do u know the site doesnt just give you a crap for a hand and take your money. whats on the other side of the screen.
There are MANY super user accounts in the 1 cent 2 cent games.
They can illegally make as much as 80 cents a day in profits, which is not fair
Just the other day, I was betting 7/2 off and they were cracked by aces.
Something is fishy.....Just a warning.
Much safer to play at slot's o fun
Just putting this out there let's say out of 100,000 tournaments that 10,000 are won by host bots with a top win of $100.00 that would equate to $1 million dollars per day not bad share cropping huh.
I would play for play money for a long time them when I played for the real money then I discovered that I could not win even small amounts my game had not change that much I can make the final table in almost all live tourneys so why here with small amount of prize pool?
I feel that it is a rope a dope they tell you some cheating goes on in high stakes that's where me and you can't afford to play but the real money is in the small one's like i described before. The higher stakes are watched closer than the player who might only lose $10.00 who wants to pursue such a small amount when you would mark that up as a cheap lesson.
Now I would love to have Internet poker if regulated by a governing body I know I said the R word (Bad) word REGULATE.
Like Boris I had a brief fling with online poker. I agree there is a component of online poker that leads to incredible amounts of time wasting and lack of productivity. Here are some things I found with online poker that seemed strange to me:
In low limit on line cash games, there appeared to be all sorts of collusion going on. Example: Every betting round would be capped with raises and reraises by same 3-4 different people. Then the same 3-4 people would play all the way to the river, capping each betting round. So, if you had a decent starting hand like JJ, you would be under complete assault all the way to the river -- getting raised and re-raised the entire way through. Forget trying to isolate an opponent and playing heads up. This kind of betting pattern rarely occurs in live low limit poker -- and I have played all over LV for the past year $2-4, $3-6, $4-8.
I can't prove this, but when I played sit and go tournaments online, I felt like some players knew my cards. Example: I would have AK or AQ in middle position and raise 4x the BB before the flop. I would get called by 2-3 players. The flop would be something like J,3,9. I would bet. Call. Turn was 6. I would bet. Call. River was 2, I would bet. Call. Opponent would then win the pot with 8,2 off suit. This type of situation occured so much I really began to wonder what was going on. How could these players call bets pre flop with such bad starting hands? How could they play all the way to the river with such a hand? Very strange...
Once I was playing 4 tournaments online at the same time -- $12 sit and gos with a starting field of 27 players. By random chance the same player from England was at my table in 3 out of the 4 tournaments. This guy beat me in every hand. He called every bluff I tried. His decision making was perfect. I made the final table in 2 out of 4 tournaments. He made the final table in all 4 tournaments he was playing. He was the chip leader in 3 out 4 final tables. He won 3 tournaments and placed 2nd in the other. This seemed very odd to me. So everytime I would go online I would watch him play. He did not play that much, but everytime he played a similar pattern emerged. He would play 3-4 tournaments at a time, he would get to the final table every time, he was the chip leader usually, he would always cash, or come in 1st or 2nd. Very odd.
The last thing about online poker that I found incredible were some of the most incredible bad beats I ever seen. Straight flushes losing to royal flushes. Higher straight flushes beating lower straight flushes. Quads over quads. One out river suck outs. This happened to me twice online:
All in with 10/10. 4 other players go all in also. All four of them have A/K. Flop is Q,2,J. Turn is Q, River is J. Tens get counterfeited by QQ-JJ. I lose, the 4 of them split the pot. Come on now.
It all boils down to some people decided they didn't like online games -- whether their motivations were moral or taxation is irrelevant-- and decided to criminalize adults' choices for their entertainment. The real question is who is an online gambler hurting -- that would be no one. No injury=no crime. Welcome to the police state America has become.
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others." -- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82
@Liz Benston
"Even if online gambling is against federal law, authorities have yet to turn up the heat on players; the temperature outside, on the other hand, is 106 degrees."
FYI:
There is NO FEDERAL LAWS prohibiting Americans from participating in games of chance online.
However, there apparently is a Nevada State law prohibiting Nevadans from gambling via the Internet which has NEVER been enforced (how does prosecuting gambling citizens protect them?) -- which shouldn't be confused with gambling via the Intranet, which "legally" occurs daily in Nevada nor with Federal Laws (i.e. Federal Wire Act) which prohibits gaming providers from participating with Americans via interstate/foreign/wiring transmissions. (Ref 1: Jay Cohen)
Further note: The WTO (world trade organization) ruled in favor of Antiqua and Barbuda which claimed UIGEA violated established trade agreements, while the United States continues to refuse to comply with the WTO's ruling. (Ref 2: USA and the WTO saga continues)
Ref 1:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Cohen
Ref 2:
http://pokerworks.com/poker-news/2007/10...
: {
ok it is so obvious that these ant-online poker comments are planted by people with an agenda.
These are facts. I have not deposited money on any poker site for over 5 years. In that time I have withdrawn around $40,000. I work a regular 9-5 job and play golf and softball regularly.I have a life. Online poker is my second job! I play low limits so I have a big edge over my competition, there is virtually no risk involved!
Poker IS a skill game! I am living proof.
It will be a sad day when the government and brick and mortar casinos take my second job away from me.
I remember when the USA was a free country. :(
Just another example of how this so-called "Land of the Free" butts into peoples' private life - telling them how than can and can not spend their own money. As long as I'm not asking the government (and I'm NOT) to support me in any way , shape or form - it's MY business how I choose to spend my hard-earned money and not the governments. Actually I don't even play poker - online or otherwise - but it's just the principal of the whole thing - my money means it's my choice.....
I think the main issue is whether or not the Government has the right to tell people how to spend their money (or not spend it). People can research the pro's and cons till the cows come home but in the end the decision should still be THEIRS to make - I don't need Uncle Sam babysitting my paycheck because, after-all, it is MY paycheck.... and I don't sponge off the government looking for freebies - I often wonder how people who support this government interference (because they just happen to agree with the government on a particular issue) would feel if the government suddenly tried to 'regulate' something they DIDN'T agree with them on.... I would imagine these same people who so readily agree with government interference would suddenly sing a whole new tune... yep, that's what I think....
I found peace of mind when I said good-bye to online poker. I know the excitement and entertainment value but I don't like the recurring losing sessions that just kept coming back and back and back. There are days when you win your hands, and then there are days when you just can't flop nothing. Just like in live poker, with one exception: you get dealt way more hands. By playing 6 or more tables and playing 4-6 hours per session, you can expect to get about....one sec......2000 hands, or even more. So, let's say you are playing 6 games 0.50-1 nl or 1-2 nl, it's just not true that you play less rake. It' true that you play less rake per 100 hands you play, but given the fact that you play 6 tables you will pay MUCH MORE RAKE as if you'd play 1 table nice and low and easy in a typical poker room that charges 4 dollars max per hand, plus jackpot , plus dealer tip.
When I was really deep in online poker I spoke to people in Vegas and some had the opinion I have today, and I was just shrugging my head and couldn't agree with them. There was a lot of negativity coming from some people as it was about online poker. Today, I think that live poker is the way to go and online is a thing that's for the addicted. If you like to get some sort of entertainment, then you should play live. If you're strictly after profit and want to play as many hands as possible and this is your way of making money, then online poker is the way to go.
What I am trying to say is that I have changed my life accordingly and to me, online poker, is no longer the center of attraction. And since I quit doing that, I feel much better. I feel free again. There's much more in life than sitting 6 hours or more behind the computer, staring at artificial poker tables. But that's the way I see things, and not necessarily the ultimate wisdom. It's about what you make of your life and what makes you happy. Online poker couldn't meet my expectations anymore, so I decided to let go.
From Switzerland
Hey pokerplayer112, I swear by God neither my online poker comments are planted by using an agenda nor any other comment I did in any commenting section at lasvegassun.com, it is just that I enjoy my right of free speech and publishing making me happy, and nobody can ever take that away from me as long as I live. I just do not think it is fair play, if a server farm by pretending to be physically existing human beings is cheating on simple online users of an online poker game. That's why... I do dislike online poker.
Regards
Banana_Joe
Hey Jimmyhoofa, thanks for your detailed poker-pro comment about how the online poker applications are cheating by using some kind of super users even on the experienced poker-pro.
Btw, I think I am not the only one who is missing the link to your Vegas blog providing detailed informations about Vegas from past to present.
Regards
Banana_Joe
Sorry. folks, I know, I know, I'd better use the spell checker before posting my comments ...uhhh... informationS ....;-)
Nevertheless thanks for reading my wrecked and wrotten English comments anyway.
I beg to differ from Boris but I've been playing online poker for a few years now and I am still enjoying it. I have been a multimillionaire a few times and also broke about the same times but I consider myself a little bit wiser than Boris because I play strictly play money. I get the same enjoyment like playing real money and the best part is I stopped going to a casino and lose my real money like I used to do.
BorisR is correct, ask yourself: how many people do you know that are addicted to Farmville? Adding the credit card issue is just insane, that's just my opinion.
The comments seem to be biased negative about online poker. But there are positives that are ignored or overlooked. First of all, big events, like on pokerstars, are re-televised with hole cards exposed. If someone is using a super-account, it would become obvious very quickly. With 9th place usually around 20 grand for their 215$ big tournament and first place being around 200,000, I rest assured that this mode of cheating is super rare to not at all today because it's simply not there.
Bad beats happen in poker, more so online because of so many more hands in online poker. In addition, there is more calling, more all-in, more betting online. I think because it's a simple thing of clicking a mouse, instead of pushing chips in front of you.
Nobody would argue it takes luck plus skill to win at poker. There is natural variance to the game, each hand has a winning percentage, and it's not always a conspiracy when your pocket Aces or Kings get cracked.
Playing online is more economical than at a casino, I can see the arguments for not playing online. Hey, not everything is for everybody. But I would agree with everyone on this point, it needs regulation.
Could not agree more with AceFlossie about the credit card option. Imho online players should not be allowed to load their deposits by charging credit cards, because people who already have higher debts would worsen their financial situation the more they are addicted to online gambling and give in to charging their credit cards. People should live within their means instead of blowing the family nest egg by overcharging their credit cards for online poker.
Regards
Banana_Joe
at the end of the day making online gaming illegal was a very bad move, the big casinos could have had an online presence helping market vegas. Very short sighted move by the government to block it and then seek owners of the companies and stuff them all in jail, this only makes business owners less likely to travel to the states to invest in case another law pops up and stuffs them.
Sorry, markp, still disagree, since online poker -as any other online application- is no regional business but a global online poker business which does not cater to Las Vegas tourism.
I really do support global internet businesses when it comes to diversifying/simplifying retail businesses, but I am strictly against it when virtual server farms and super users cheat on average online gaming addicts who by overcharging their credit cards destroy their real-life existances for refilling their online poker deposits.
Shutting down those kind of unfair life-threatening online poker businesses is imho the right thing to do and will take even more real gamblers to town to gamble at the Vegas experience and to enjoy other amenities in Las Vegas tambien.
Regards
Banana_Joe
I personally would not think that much of super user accounts and cheating, but rather the simple way of how people are wagering their money. Besides the fact that there are many different ways of taking out other players, there's also the self-isolation factor, and the possibility of going broke playing online without ever anybody noticing what's going on there.
However, besides all these financial issues, I definetely have to emphasize that I also noticed symptoms of insomnia and severe back problems after sitting in front of the computer for days and days and days, for months and, I have to admit....actually for several years until I gave up and re-organized my life. And today, by looking back, I think I did what I had to do, and I am happy about it. I will gladly donate a few thousands of dollars when I fly to Vegas gambling but refraim from this online crazy while I am in my regular life. This at least makes my Vegas vacation more fun again and keeps my mind free while I am in the other world.
From Switzerland
That's it, Boris, that's what I'm talking about and also fits perfectly smooth with the former vegas theme "what happens in vegas stays in vegas". Way to go, Boris.
Meet me at the spa tomorrow at 10 o'clock ..;-)
Regards
Banana_Joe
The federal system is really becoming a joke. They are encouring noncomplaince now from both liberals and conservatives. Pretty soon, one or possibly many states will have enough and want out. It's just hard to know if a conservative state like Texas or a liberal one like California will get pissed off first and leave.
encouraging noncompliance.
Hey goingbust, maybe its2hot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryRgOU76V...
But thanks for encouraging me to keep posting, since it seems, that I am not the only one, who needs the spell checker ;-).
Shut these greedy online poker servers down!
Shut these greedy online poker servers down!
(lmao :)
Regards
Banana_Joe
The most pervert way of raking in quick-cash from the players is the Full Tilt version of "speed poker", also called "rush poker". To me, this has nothing "real" to do with regular poker any longer. Even the fact that you can't see the players on a virtual table has now become even more difficult for the player contributing in this " rush poker game". The player is together with some hundred other players. So, the "system" opens a certain number of tables, based on the number of players. The more players are in this pool, the more tables could theoretically be opened. And now picture this:
Suppose you enter rush poker. Now what happens is that you are being seated at...."any new table that's just about to begin dealing the hand". it is absolutely random where you are being seated. This said, you can either be on the button, the big blind or perhaps in the cut-off, nobody knows until he's being seated. If you're in the big blind, you're up to post the big blind, which is done by default, of course.
Now, you will either play this hand,....or not. If you fold your hand out of turn, you will immediately be removed from this table and be placed at another table where the next hand is to be dealt instantly. You are rushing to the next table.
If you have a playable hand or think that you have a shot at the pot, then you will play your hand normally until you opt to fold , or win or lose the hand, in which case, you will jump (rush) on the next best available table and get dealt the next hand. The players are being seated based on a programmed way. I don't remember what it is, probably the first player seated gets the button, and the very last player is to be dealt in the big blind, or vice versa, I don't know. However, this is part of the program and the players know from the beginning about this procecude.
The problem I see here is that the site obviously tries to get you speed-action , even if you're only playing 1 or 2 tables. You will get innstantly new hands as soon as you fold the current hand. Therefore, instead of being dealt perhaps 60 hands or so per hour per table, you are now being dealt 150-200 hands per hour per table, and this is the best way for the casino to generate even more rake! And it's far from real poker in my opinion.
To me, this rises some questions:
1. Is it guaranteed that all players get the same (fair) share of correct position , or could it be that some players are sitting more often on the button and therefore get to post less often?
If in the long run the players get the the correct number of times when being dealt off the button, small blind, etc, then it would have to be controllable and shown in the statistics. If not, then there is a good chance that full tilt could theoretically program some players into the button mroe often than others and therefore give them a huge edge....
From Switzerland
4 Words to describe online poker, Google or Wikipedia them:
Russ Hamilton
Dutch Boyd
so banana joe you think if mgm, sahara etc had an online gaming site, it would not be of any use to market there actual premises in vegas? rubbish clearly you have no idea how a market a business, millions of people seeing a website, offers to those people cheap rooms vacations etc is no use?
lol lol
Sorry, markp, I obviously underestimated your need of professional expertise regarding online poker applications. As you already found out yourself, I am the wrong man in this case, since I have never before in my life gambled online poker and I never will do. Boris saved me from doing such a mistake by providing US with detailed information about the online poker games and applications.
Please do not take my criticism about the online poker applications in general for criticism of company websites which always do make a lot of sense to purchase rooms, show tix4tonight and much more information about buffets and the hotel's amenities. Many casino's/hotel's web sites are available via http://cheapovegas.com
Please decide yourself which web site of all the casino/resort sites you like the best. I have several favourites.
Btw, I am just a simple tourist who never claimed to be able to run a casino/resort hotel.
Not in my wildest dreams would I dare to try such a difficult business, I would not even try it just for a day.
Not only do I lack the guts for running this business, but what is even more important: I do not have the slightest professional experience about running any kind of business.
I am glad for making you laugh about me being such a clown, so at least I could generate some fun in face of such a serious and tragic subject like "online poker" and its applications/implications.
Regards
Banana_Joe
@markp:
Btw, the websites of the Sun, Las Vegas Weekly won top honors, so you can easily see what well practised web development can effectively be used for:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jun...
Take a look at the Greenspun Media Group as well:
http://www.gmgvegas.com
Thanks for reading my comment.
Regards
Banana_Joe
Personally, even though I enjoy video poker, I wouldn't play in an online casino with my 'real-life' money, especially not by giving them access to my actual bank account information. You don't know who is running those sites, or where the parent company is located. Using these kinds of services is just opening yourself up to identity fraud and outright theft. Can you imagine trying to go after some random offshore company for identity theft?
Hey janefromvegas, neither could I imagine that, nor could I imagine some random offshore company to cater to Vegas tourism and Las Vegas gambling industries.
janefromvegas
of all the things you can say about online gaming sites, I must add that I have transfered thousands of dollars to and from online gaming sites. In fact, most of the sites cash-out extremely fast after your request. And also, I have not hat one single problem with depositing over the years. Not one error that happened on my credit card and all funds have been always deposited or cashed-out as per my request.
The sites know that once there's the tiniest problem to occur about transfering funds, this news would spread rapidly and could easily lead to the closure of a site. To them, integrity is extremly important and, in fact, it's their essential.
Unfortunately, there are people working with these sites. The programs might work well from scratch, but then, after the time goes by, some day maybe, there's somebody new to the site , some hacker gets into the system, or some greedy superman, and we know what happens then.
I wouldn't say that there's cheating going on at these sites, but there's a chance that it could happen.
We do, however, remember that even in Las Vegas there's cheating going on from time to time, in some poker rooms. The most recent scandal I was aware of was the skimming of jackpot moneys at the Planet Hollywood just a couple of years ago. They faked payouts of high hand jackpots that were actually never dealt to any players, therefore, ripping off the players' money. As a consequence, the managers were fired and sent into prison. Don't know more about it. What I am trying to say is that wherever people wager their money, there are other people trying to make a move at you. It's up to you to decide whether or not you are ready to take the risk and gamble.
From Switzerland
So it would seem, Banana Joe, that you feel you have a 'right' to determine how people spend their money, live their life. Well I don't agree - as long as a person undertands that they can't expect the government to bail them out of a bad situation it is still THEIR decision on what they want to do with the paycheck and their credit card. IF they earned the money it's their 'right' to spend it anyway they see fit...if, on the other hand, they're collecting hand-outs from the government then I agree, they should NOT be gambling it away. We don't need a nanny-state, or nanny-government to control or 'regulate' how we spend our hard-earned cash. And I don't need anyone else - friend or foe - deciding for me that it's not alright if I want to use a credit/debit card to make cash deposits to an online gaming site. If this country is a 'free' as it touts itself to be then they need to keep their noses out of peoples lives as it pertains to how they spend their money.
JanefromVegas, I can understand your concern about giving info to some 'random' company - however the major gaming sites - Fulltilt, Pokerstars, Doyles room - these are owned/operated etc. by REAL poker pro's who have their name and reputation at stake - these are not some fly-by-night outfits out to just confiscate personal info on people to use in an identity theft operation. While I wouldn't give some unknown online company the time of day much less my personal info - I wouldn't have a problem with legitimate sites like Doyle's Room etal. I, personally, don't even gamble - my husband likes online poker - so be it - the bills get paid, there's money in both checking/savings/401K so who am I to complain. He enjoys it - for whatever that's worth.
This was going to be a much larger comment but I decided to cut it down a lot.
There are a number of very vocal people here who are clearly against online poker. I think it's fine if you don't like it. I think it's fine if you don't trust it. I think it's fine if you don't want to do it and I think it's fine if you prefer to play in live games. However, I don't agree with you and I don't think that what is right for you should be forced on me. I think you're perfectly entitled to your ideas but I don't think you should be entitled to impose those ideas and opinions on others who don't agree with you, "for their own good."
If you don't trust online poker sites I don't have a problem with that. However there are a number of major online sites with very solid track records. They have had their software independently evaluated for fairness and have passed time and time again. I feel they are fair places to play and I don't see why other people not trusting them should keep those of us who do trust them from playing there.
Online poker in the early 2000's was great but after the CC co's quit letting you deposit and Paypay and Neteller went away in the US it became very hard to win since the only people who will go through the hassle to deposit are the best players.
If the US ever quits being stupid and regulates online poker it will be a bonanza again for decent to good players plus the US govt will get their tax money (which is really all this is about).
Until then i am thru other than playing very small stakes just to kill time.