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Education cuts could mean bigger class sizes
Lawmakers hoping to end special legislative session tonight
Sunday, Feb. 28, 2010 | 5 p.m.
Lynn Warne
Sun Coverage
As Nevada legislators and Gov. Jim Gibbons' neared a budget deal Sunday night to close the state's budget hole, the president of the state's teachers union was saying 6.9 percent in cuts to school districts won't mean layoffs for Clark County teachers, but will likely result in more students per classroom.
Lynn Warne, president of the Nevada State Education Association, said the 2010 special session "just demonstrates the whole process is flawed."
Warne said school districts in Clark and Washoe counties would be able to avoid laying off full-time teachers. But class sizes will increase, as the school districts don't fill positions from retiring or leaving teachers.
The Legislature passed a law giving school districts the flexibility to increase class sizes in the lowest grades.
The 6.9 percent cuts to higher education and k-12 are part of a consensus deal reached by Legislative leaders and Gov. Jim Gibbons.
The deal would take money from Clark County governments, raise some additional money in fees on mining and on bank foreclosure and make some cuts to services. Final details were still being ironed out on Sunday, when Gibbons has declared an end to the session.
With the pace of the Legislature slowing on Sunday evening, Chief of Staff Robin Reedy said Gov. Jim Gibbons is preparing an amendment to the proclamation, extending the deadline until Monday at 5 p.m. Reedy said she still hopes that the Legislature can still finish tonight.
Warne, lamented, "The can is kicked down the road. We have never funded essential services adequately in this state."
Asked about the 6.9 percent cut to education, she took a deep breathe: "There was a lot of dealmaking that went on. Education, at the end of the day, is going to be cut."
Sen. Bob Coffin earlier Sunday said he planned to vote against the deal. Coffin lamented cuts to services for the mentally ill and money taken from Clark County.
"It takes money from Clark County and spends it willy-nilly in the state general fund," he said.
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Only in America can Wall Street thieves make millions in bonuses while school children are punished for the racketeers' crimes. God Bless America!
Education should have gotten cut, they are a state and county paid entity and our budget is in the toilet. Her arguement is the kids suffer. If a teacher can't do their job with a pay cut, like the rest of us state workers have had to do, then get rid of them, its not about the kids, its about their paycheck, using the kids as an excuse. And to Coffin.... they took money from Washoe, Lyon and Carson Counties, what the heck makes Clark so special? Clark Co gets most of the states funds for social services, infrastructure, and education while the rest of the state suffers, so time to kick it back to the rest of Nevada, and quit whining.
WOW, some just can't get it through their head that taxpayers, mining, and gaming aren't cash cows with no limit to how much you can take from them.
The district has had smaller classes in grades 1-3 for a few years, did this show up in better test results? I sure don't remember anybody
at the district blowing their horn if it did.
You get what you pay for. The more money you cut from education, the higher the drop out rate and the lower quality of scum teenagers that get pumped out onto the street with no diploma and no future. Crime rates go up and more money is spent on police and public welfare.
Las Vegas is going down the drain. It's either send your child to a private school or hope they don't fall victim to childhood obesity and can become strippers.
Hey Lipton,
Clark county has always funded those Northern useless cow counties. Sounds mean like you doesn't it. This state has always taken money from Clark County for the less populated counties in the state. Clark County has given to them generously! But, in case you didn't know, 90% of the states population is in Clark County. However, we retain about 70% of taxes collected, so your argument about Washoe and Lyon counties does not hold water.
Children will survive with bigger classes sizes. Get over it. Taking from the handicapped and mentally ill is just wrong. They may not survive.
Lower class sizes in 1-3 has showed great results in those grades. Unfortunately, after that students are frequently in classes with over 30 students, which taxes the best teacher's ability to give attention to the needs of the students. If you look at successful charter or private schools, they manage to keep class sizes under 20 throughout high school. It's not about greedy teacher unions or vouchers, or excessive administration, it's about making a real commitment to the future of this state, which has been avoided for the past twenty years.
Education is influenced more by a child's willingness to learn under the guidance of his/her parents. Class size has little to do with the ability to learn. Smaller class sizes = more teacher positions with less likelihood of layoffs.
If administrative staffing were cut by 50% the school districts would be running beautifully and in the black. Bureaucrats ruin everything by attempting to justify their own existence. Sack administrators not teachers.
The neo-con logic;
"Pack them in like cordwood! They're not learning
anyway! If the teachers can't handle it, fire them!"
It's this kind of thinking that fosters a system that graduates our children at a rate of about 65 percent. We need fundamental change in Nevada's outlook toward education before we'll see marked improvement. That means putting our money where our mouth's are, and getting parents involved in VALUING AN EDUCATION TO BEGIN WITH.
If you are interested in learning more, check out this link;
http://www.unce.unr.edu/publications/fil...
One thing that sticks out like a sore thumb is the graduation rates by ethnicity:
American Indian/Alaska Native 50.6%
Black/African American 51.7%
Latino 53.6%
White 70.8%
Asian/Pacific Islander 76.1%
Males 60.4%
Females 66.5%
Hispanics and Black/African American kids (not surprisingly) skew the numbers taken as a whole.
Many "experts" will have you believe this is "The System's fault", or "faulty curricula", "bad teachers" with "poor teaching methods", and tests that are tailored to kids of other ethnicities. (read; White).
It COULD be a result of one or all of those things, or NONE of those things, but one thing is for sure;
If Hispanic parents and parents of Black children do not promote the absolute essentialness of a PROPER EDUCATION to their children, and support them to that end, the relatively high cycle of poverty amongst their respective ethnical groups will continue unabated until the end of time.
More Liberal scare tactics...
Why did not the writer of this editorial give us an idea of how many more children would be in the classrooms. One or two? A dozen or more? Is this another secret?
Every time I go into a school's office, they are full of teachers and administrative people.
Years ago, around the time of gmager's schooling, all of the staff with teaching degrees taught a class or two. Some of the admin people would assist in the classes.
It can be done if they want to do it...
Any process in which our legislators have to beg big business for help is flawed.
It should not be up to lobbyists like Billy Vasiliadis to make policy.
You cut teachers, you get bigger class sizes. That's just simple math.
Astute Teabag analysis by Larry:
"Every time I go into a school's office, they are full of teachers and administrative people."
Hahaha...
How much larger will class sizes get. The story doesn't say that I saw. I heard several weeks ago that if the cuts were 10%, class sizes will go up an average of 6 per class. Just curious.
BUSH 8 years of presidency was one big scare tactic and it work until the last years. oh yea recession start at the end of 2007
When I was young, I had anywhere from 50-90 kids in my class and I got a great education. My heart bleeds for these teachers who may have to work a little harder.
All I can say to the people who think adding 1-3 kids to a class is not a big deal is, try teaching yourself and then offer an opinion. If we lived in Pleasantville than class size wouldn't matter, but what if the 1 kid they add has an IEP that has 5 different criteria that have to be met each class period, or the 2 kids they add are continual behavioral problems because they have no structure at home. This is reality. The only people who should critisize this issue are the teachers themselves because we are the only ones who will see, every day, the impact.
pretty easy to predict how this one playsout:
THe district says that the teachers need to accept a salary cut or there will be layoffs.
The union says they won't budge.
They district says that there are going to be layoffs and they really mean it.
THe union refuses a salary cut.
The district sends out 500 pink slips and blames the union in the media.
THe union says "ok, ok, ok, ok, ok.....ok, just calm down everyone and let's talk this over."
The teachers get a 3% paycut and, somehow, the sun still rises the next morning.
50-90 kids per class? In a PE class possibly, but really, you expect people to believe that. I read the articles on this site and not once have I see it written that teachers don't want larger classes because they don't want to work harder. Its not about that, its about whats best for the kids. Contrary to what many seem to think, the vast majority of teachers got into education because they want to help kids. Of course we want to make a living and be paid what we feel we deserve. Unlike many other professions however, teachers can't simply go to work day after day, year after year, and count on a yearly raise. Unless we continue our education our pay stays still after 5-14 years, depending on what step a teacher is on. A career is supposed to be 30 years. What other jobs level out pay like this? The reality is that teaching is a demanding, time-consuming job. The vast majority of teachers go above and beyond to help their students. Like I said in my previous post, unless you know first-hand, you don't know. Spend a week in a school volunteering and then tell me that class size doesn't matter, or that the support staff personnel at school aren't necessary. The way kids are raised these days, we need even more help than in the past. You would see this if you spent time in the schools.
perry the "BushWacker" is blessed us again with his presence. And as usual "its Bush's fault!"
All I can say is don't you dare post a comment about whining teachers and more kids in our classes until you've spent a day volunteering in one. And going behind the scenes and seeing all the preparation necessary for what you saw. Even better, come to my kindergarten class for a couple hours. I only have 30 kids, the lowest in my school. And every parent who comes for 1 or 2 hours to help leaves saying the same thing, "I don't know how you do it". . Well, I don't plan on doing it again, I will go back to another grade next year or quit. And I will say that having 2 or 3 more in 1st or 2nd grade wouldn't cause me to quit, but I bet most people who aren't teachers and haven't been in a classroom in 20 years wouldn't last a couple hours. Do you know how high the turnover rate for teachers is? Hard to believe with what a cushy high paying job with summers off teaching is... maybe there is a little more to the story. And, I might be "hanging out" in the office part of my prep period,usually discussing a moving or incoming student with the clerk and trying to get my paperwork done. Pardon me if I chit chat for 5 minutes, you never do that at your job? You will also find me "hanging out" in my room on Saturdays, after school and other times trying to catch up... Talk to my husband, who gets annoyed how many hours I "work" when work is supposed to be over.
"All I can say is don't you dare post a comment about" who the hell are you to tell people when and on what they can comment?
Its a public system anyone can say what ever they think. See thats part of the problem many people fail to remember that, without the public, taxpayers, there is no system and they "taxpayers/public"are the boss, period, end of story. Now anyonw with any sense wants the input of the people actually working in the system to form their opinion.
I dont know any logical person that thinks teaching is easy regardless of grade level. And youre right most people probably would last but then again thats probably why they didnt choose the profession. Point is I or anyone else will/can comment at any point we choose.
And yes we, the public and economic realities will ultimately decide if your class size is increased. You are a public servant, the public is not your servant. If you have a problem with that then I suggest you join the ranks of those who would not last a couple of hours.
Hey, I have an idea, why don't we just pull our kids out of school and home teach them, because the way things look now, these kids do not have a chance in life...
but at least we found some money for roads!!!
in my opinion, teaching IS easy and that is why so many dumb people go into it. A, B, C, D, E, F, G .... so hard, what comes next?
Suck up the few extra students you big whiners.
@gmag39
Good comment. Get ready for an onslaught from NPRI. I am sure they are working up a good one.
"but at least we found some money for roads!!!"
At least we will be able to get out here.
Let's just have computer centers for the students so they can take online classes all day and have taped shows, so they get even less social skills than they do today with phones and the interwebs. There is a HUGE difference getting taught by a teacher with 15-20 students, than say a lecture hall with 150 students. The more kids in a classroom, the harder it is to teach the curriculum and get students to listen, ask questions, and pay attention.
All I know is my child's 4th grade homework, grades, and motivation dipped sharply this year, and it seems to have a lot to do with going from 20 students in 3rd grade to 35 students in 4th grade.
(And, yes, I am a college-educated parent who is an active PTA member and who does homework with my kids every night.)
We still have to find permanent solutions to the problems that we faced in education funding, but legislators did the best with what they had to work with during the special session.
Teachers' jobs can be spared if the CCSD's administration and support staff are pared down to an optimal size. Both are too large for the SD's size.
You all want teachers to accept a paycut and go outside the collective bargaining agreement that both the State and the teachers union signed. So in 6 months time when the economy gets worse, lets revisit the cuts and go after 5 or 10% more of teachers pay. I started out as a teacher 9 years ago with $27,000.00 a year, this is with 2 bachelors degrees.I went back to school and spent an additional $12,000.00 for my Masters degree. I got a bump because of this. Now I am going for my PHD, and you know how much that is going to be. So let me get this straight, I bettered myself for my job as teacher, spent money doing it and now you want to reward me with a decrease in my salary? I am teaching 35 children presently. i would like to ask all these people who think that "just pack them in and get over it" to come for a week and teach on your own these children. No you would not. You are all talk and no action. By the way, I consider myself a good teacher who cares. I stay 2 hours every week day(with my 6 and 8 year old children)to continue work on preparation and to help struggling kids catch up, as well as a half a day on Saturday to get ready for the next week.Mt GPA is at 3.9% at college and you tell me to get over it? Would you take a pay cut ? No you would not!
I'm okay with more colossal cuts to education, because my prop taxes are a disaster. Just let UCLA and UNLV become private. Today's kids aren't the future--they are food for student loan companies and credit card companies. They are going to be incredibly messed up, so don't waste money on them when people are living under the freeway. Check out "Digital Nation" on PBS, especially the segment on Korean kids hooked on video games.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...
I think we got rid of the NPRI. I saw Patrick Gibbons over at the RJ's boards today.
Here's an idea that I'm sure we can all agree on. Lets take education out of the Nevada constitution, so the state doesn't have to do anything with the funding. Force parents to pay for K-12 education, if they are not bankrupt by then the kids can go to college. This should eliminate the need for higher class sizes because no one would be able to afford an education. Plus the casinos would be able to have their new workers at a low salary for generations to come!!
(Please note the hint of sarcasm in there! Thanks)