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StumbleLETTER TO THE EDITOR:
Raise taxes that affect everyone on an equal basis
Saturday, Feb. 27, 2010 | 2:03 a.m.
I believe we all should tighten our belts during this shortfall in Nevada’s state budget. Raise taxes that affect everyone. Laying off or reducing pay for public employees focuses the belt-tightening on a few. (I’m a federal government employee and my spouse works for the Clark County School District.)
Every public employee who is laid off equates to another home foreclosure within six months. But raising the state sales tax by 1 cent will adversely affect no one. Raise the gas tax by 10 cents, and raise the state’s property tax by 10 percent. These amounts will not affect anyone. Make these additions surcharges that last only through the end of the budget period.
Those who can afford to pay should be required to pay more. It is better to raise taxes than to cut programs or lay off staff in a recession. We should not focus the effects of the recession on a few public employees.
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A 50% tax on UNIONs income could clear the whole thing. This would keep this money instate instead of goint to the thugs at the internationals.
If this were imposed the UNIONS would finaly pay thier fair share.
Rhooster,
Do you have a better idea? Notice the writer came up with an idea and listed specific examples to support his idea. We need more of this. You took the easy way out by bashing him for brainstorming instead of coming up with your own solution. If your answer is "cut, cut, cut", please be specific and list:
1. Your proposed cuts
2. The amount it would save
3. The effects it would have on the community
Ron, Ron, Ron, please move back to California.
Why is it that the public sector employees feel they and their "programs" should be immune from reductions/layoffs?
Do they not understand our current unemployment is made up from the private sector?
Time to share in the burden people, and stop whining.
Your jobs and programs are not really essential to the general public in their present 100% mode. We can get by with diminished services for the immediate future, and anyway, posting here is a waste. You should be writing your union stewards.
Close the welfare offices, offer free bus tickets to California instead. Abolish all government employee unions. Go to zero based budgeting. Cut the legislature's sessions to once every ten years and no other sessions in between.
By the way Ron you lie. You and your wife do not work, you just get a check from the government. If both of you were terminated I am sure no one would miss you, I know I wouldn't. Freeloaders.
No one deserves a paycut, and no one deserves to lose their job, except maybe a few politicians.
Our elected officials seem to be deciding that it would be unfair to raise taxes on the foreign companies who are mining the precious ore from Nevadas soil.
Billions of dollars of ore are being extracted and these mining companies are only paying 1.5% on their profit.
Raising this industries taxes would not do a thing to hurt any Nevadans. These precious ores are sold on a world wide market, the market wouldn't even flinch. Harry Reid was asked months ago to help rewrite our states constitution to allow the raise in taxes. He said it would have to wait until after the elections in November. Is this why our other elected officials are not going to raise taxes on the mining companies. The incumbents seem to be more worried about their campaigns than the states budget. Just think the start our state would have in balancing our budget if all the campaign contributions from the mining cos. and from the casinos would go towards paying off our states debts instead of funding our officials campaigns.
"I'm a federal government employee and my spouse works for the Clark County School District."
Vormwald -- the teat is about to dry up. Get used to it -- and prepare for scratching desperately for your daily bread with the rest of us, including your home foreclosed within six months.
Cadaver -- what you said!
"It is the eternal struggle between these two principles -- right and wrong -- throughout the world ... It is the same spirit that says, 'You toil and earn the bread, and I'll eat it.'" -- Abraham Lincoln, from Reply, Seventh and Last Joint Debate with Judge Douglas, 1858.
"Those who can afford to pay should be required to pay more." SOCK IT TO THEM RICH GUYS, but leave poor little me alone.
Besides, it's all Bush's fault...
Ronald, I'm not going to be mean or unreasonable like so many others but here is the truth, at least from my perspective. I don't want either you or your wife to lose your jobs. However, I own a small business in Las Vegas. My gross is down 50 %. My home has lost 50 % of its value and I just got a quarterly property tax bill for $ 900.00. I am paying 2.75 per gallon for gas and my premium for poor health insurance for myself is almost $ 500 / month. What you suggest would impact me and many others. Meanwhile, most government employees are balking at even agreeing to a salary cut, reduced hours or reduced benefits and are instead saying raise taxes. I have worked in the public sector in the past and when I did I was as blind as you are now to the real world of the private sector. I really don't blame you for wanting to keep what you have, but the reality is that we are in a deep recession. As is usual, the private sector folks have taken the brunt of the storm and public sector employees have largely been spared the bad times. The well is dry, Ronald, the the public sector employees are going to have to suffer some pain too.
Kind Regards,
Michael Casler
"But raising the state sales tax by 1 cent will adversely affect no one. Raise the gas tax by 10 cents, and raise the state's property tax by 10 percent. These amounts will not affect anyone. "
Classic lib thinking....
Do you think that business that are retail and food establishments will not be affect by a removal of 1% of their revenue? They could be force in these times when many are already losing to layoff 1% of the employees.
"gas tax by 10 cents"....just a FYI...gas tax will not help with budget problems for it can only be used to fix and build roads.
You gotta love libs.
They think that money grows on trees for businesses and if one just removes money out of their revenue stream that by magic nothing happens.
This just in "Rhode Island District Fires All Its HS Teachers" -- http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/02/1...
"Posted by Andrew J. Coulson
Performance, it seems is abysmal. The district's high school graduation rate is said to be less than 50 percent, and things have been bad for a long time. Charged with turning things around, the superintendent asked teachers (who are making between $70,000 and $78,000 vs. the town's median income of $22,000) to work an extra 25 minutes a day, provide tutoring on a rotating schedule, and have lunch with the kids once a week. The union said no. So superintendent Frances Gallo went reluctantly to plan B: she fired the school's entire staff.
Union leaders seem to think that the old rules still apply. Maybe they do, for now. The union plans to challenge the firings and it remains to be seen if they'll find a way to reverse them.
But America is reaching a tipping point after which the old rules will go out the window. Having more than doubled public school spending per pupil in real terms over the past 40 years and not seen a smidgen of improvement in outcomes at the end of high school in return, having become frustrated that we have choice in virtually every area of life except public education, Americans are starting to chafe. When an education system fails to deliver on its promises for generation after generation, Americans will ultimately throw it on the scrap heap of history, and find something that will fulfill their educational needs and ideals. Yes. We. Can."
TO: Michael Casler (Poster wtplv)
What an excellent post!!! It sums up the difference between a public sector job and private enterprise perfectly.
Why do we need to raise taxes? How about cutting a few expenses?
Fifty percent graduation rate? I'm sure the CCSD has recruters in Rhode Island to try to bring those fine union teachers to Nevada.
"...most government employees are balking at even agreeing to a salary cut, reduced hours or reduced benefits and are instead saying raise taxes."
Casler -- as if it were up to them. Thanx so much for sharing your opinion, it being probably the only one in this entire Discussion with true merit.
raise taxes on those who have benefitted the most from the system...
raise taxes on billionaire casino owners...
raise taxes on wealthy mining companies...
it is crystal clear for all to see that they are in charge...
the politicians actually need to ask their permission to raise their taxes...
are you kidding me...
the system is broken...
they are the reason the system is broken...
raise their taxes...
then double them...
Ronald Vormwald sez--
(I'm a federal government employee and my spouse works for the Clark County School District.)
Naturally Vormwald wants you to pay more. His family benefits from your sweat. This guy has a lot of nerve. We're all suffering from this recession and the "royalty" wants us to pay more for everything that is essential to life. Raise the gas tax 10 cents? That is assinine. Increase sales tax? there are already too many hogs eating out of that trough.
Vormwald says that for every government employee laid off another home is repossesed in 6 months. The reason it is being repo'd is you levered all the money on the house in the first place. Most of those "educated" boobs are making interest only payments on a house that they paid twice the value on. Some education you got.
Vormwald--You sir are insane! You have more crust than french bread. Obama himself said no more taxes on people making less than $250,000.
You want to increase property taxes by 10 percent. Just to placate the government workers.
I have a better idea. Limit all Federal, State, County, City, Township, Borough, Hamlet jobs to one per family. No man and wife should be sucking on the payroll at the same time. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order. Why should you be making 140,000 in your house and other people only making 100,000?
I like Books idea the best of all.
Limit employment in the Government to one per family. No grandfather clause either. The family member with the least time on the job has to leave. That would spread out the payroll to more people. Either that or cut everyone's pay in half.
If Ronald Vormwald agrees to that I will campaign for 10 percent real estate increase.
Ronald Vormwald,
Excellent letter. You are correct. The notion that the budget should be balanced solely on the backs of public employees is patently unfair.
That said, you are wasting your breath with this crowd.
killerB...
I'm familiar with the Rhode Island story you refer to. It's a little more complex than you make it out to be. Do some research if you have any interest.
However, the teachers and their union made a big mistake by making a stand on the extra work time. Again, it's not as simple as you say, but that was wrong, in my opinion.
I bet there will be some negotiating to come...even though the superintendent claims there won't be.
As for your response to the letter writer;
"Vormwald -- the teat is about to dry up. Get used to it -- and prepare for scratching desperately for your daily bread with the rest of us, including your home foreclosed within six months" is completely unwarranted. Why hate, man?
Should they NOT have taken the jobs? Is that your point? When the phone rang, they should've said "no! I am not interested!" Is that it? It's funny that people like to hate on public employees, but WHO DO YOU THINK RECRUITS/ HIRES THEM?
The notion that another poster had that public jobs "should be limited to one-per-family is absolutely absurd.
Larry,
If we're to cut back on expenses, let's start with your beer budget. That will give us a big head start!
gmag39 -- the RI was just a blurb I caught from the Cato Dispatch. Looked relevant so in it went.
As for your "completely unwarranted. Why hate, man?" and the rest of your rant, get a grip, man. It's just an opinion, and much less mean-spirited than a lot posted here. The reality is their jobs exist only because We the People allow them to, not the other way around.
It's nice to hear, from people who don't know anyone on welfare, or who have never been on it themselves...
Welfare does not pay for 'extras', or luxury items.(wait for it, Sgt, and Rhooster before you say that it's proper that it doesn't.)
Like soap, toilet paper, tampons, toothbrushes...or clothing for you and yours. Food stamps are for food only, and do not cover the most basic modern 'needs'.
Then when you add on that most people who work even a part-time, minimum-wage job cannot qualify for welfare, or medicaid...but still cannot afford to pay for food, shelter or clothing on what they make- why SHOULD they try to do more than 'suck the Government teat'?
You may not believe it, but there ARE those, who would truly LOVE the opportunity to get a good job, a way to pay INTO the system, rather than be paid by it. But, how to get there?
You could tell them to go back to school- there are plenty of Govt. loans and grants out there...butthat's really another socialist drain, isn't it? No one is willing to help support people through college/vocational training, if you have to help pay for childcare, or books in the meanwhile. As to any of them who made it to age 30 without seeking help? It's nearly impossible, because who wants to invest in the future of an 'old' person?
If we could create a system of welfare, where the job IS to go to school, get decent grades, and find employment after- I have no doubt that the majority of those on welfare now, would be paying in to the 'system' in 5-10 years.
Welfare claims to support 'self-sufficency'...but it does not. It traps people into a loop where any attempt to get out, results in pushing you further down the hole. A great many people, who are in need of help right now, are finding this out for the first time.
When those people have to pay an extra 10 cents per gallon of gas, and to put in the ratty old car they can't maintain, in order to look for work, and an extra 1 cent on everything else...perhaps they'll be allowed to park that car at night, while they sleep, in front of Mr. & Mrs. Vormwald's house.
Brother, can you spare a dime?
(Post-script to rant)
Since it IS the public sector, and we are supposed to be capatalists- let's make up our 'corporate' minds to do what the market will bear...we could even vote on it:
I am experienced in Administrative work; I can type, know my alphabet/how to file, and how to answer phones...At this point, I'd be happy to take a full time position, at say...$9.50/hr? I do ask for some health insurance- but nothing fancy. Just one that covers major problems like car accidents, or cancer, and routine (preventative care)from M.D.'s, and Dentists. Oh yeah- and as I'm aging, I would like to have the occasional pair of reading glasses covered, just in case. Yes, there would be a short learning-curve, as I got used to the 'groupthink' of the Government systems...but I'm sure that would still cost the public less money, in the long run.
Now, compare that to (an entry-level) Receptionist's pay/benefits NOW.
If they aren't willing to accept less money for what they do, how about they get no money, and have no job?
C'mon people- vote for me, I'll save ya a butt-load of cash! (My slogan: Butt-loads of cash for all Nevadans!)
gmager wants me to reduce my beer consumption to reduce expenses.
Do you know what you are asking for, there gmager?
If I cut down on my beer drinking, just think what the surplus beer would do to the ecomony.
COSTCO, Smiths, Lees and several other retail establishments might have to shut their doors.
No more liquor taxes and sales taxes to be paid to the various units of government.
How many more would be added to the unemployment roles?
The worst thing would be me having more time to post on this site...
Gmag-
Taking away Larry's beer won't solve anything.
Besides as he said, it would leave him more time, and with TWO hands to type with...on this site anyway. ;)
Maybe the beer will help him write HIS manifesto, too.
***Note to Larry- thanks to that kind of 'help', my spell-checker went on strike, halfway through my first draft. Now I'm stuck searching my OED word by word.
I need a beer.
Me too...
"raise taxes on those who have benefitted the most from the system"
Wow....what a great idea.....let's tax the hell of the firefighers!!!!!
How about a $10,000 license annual fee that must be paid out of one's own pocket?
Just heard a report that NASCAR is responsible for bringing 150 million dollars into Las Vegas.
Great news from the Legislature, kids!
They have voted 40-1 NOT TO FURTHER REDUCE SALARIES OR FORCE FURTHER FURLOUGHS ON STATE WORKERS!
I am very happy for our hard working state workers. Kudos to our legislators up there in Carson City!
Rhooster,
What did I say that would cause you to think I was a communist?
I was looking for more intelligent dialogue which you did not provide in your first post. It was actually pretty juvenile to bash a guy about how he raises his kids for coming up with a solution. That alone causes you to lose credibility. I applaud you for responding with a post that has more purpose and a point. Much better than your first.
Larry...I like this VegasVixenChick.
I kid about your beer... that would be "cruel & certainly unusual".
mrx149; ignore the few right wingers that gather here. they are still suffering from the last election and have nowhere else to go.
I always ignore the right wingers but I would never ignore dippy.
I am truly astonished by Mr. Vormwald's arrogant suggestion that the rest of us should pony up more taxes so he and his wife do not lose their public sector jobs. How convenient it must be to be able to appeal to the taxpayer so they can avoid a loss that some of his neighbors may have already experienced. This attitude falls squarely on the liberal sense of entitlement as a public sector employee. If I work in the private sector, whose taxes can I confiscate to prevent my loss?
Property taxes, please get real. The property owners are taking a beating. How in the world does gas tax and property tax effect everyone? That only effects the worker struggling to keep what they have. I am so sick of struggling to keep my head above water and provide the best for my family with my own sweat and now you vultures want my blood.
Hokie....I mean Rhooster,
When did I ever say I wanted to raise taxes? When? Copy and paste it...please. I simply posted a question to try to stimulate that gray matter of yours.
Gmag:
Does that mean I can count on your vote in the Receptionist race?
Remember- "Buttloads of cash for all Nevadans, and a beer in every Vegas Larry!" :D
cpa_ken--We have exactly nowhere to go. We have absolutely no recourse. We are in a word fcked. In every meaning of the word. They have us by the short hairs. Government workers make more money and produce no product. The teachers promote students that can't fit in the furniture. I believe they call it social progression or some such thing. The very people that we pay to do the work have organized against us. The teachers in some states go on strike. The cops develop blue flu. The only thing that continues as before are the taxes we pay, and pay, and pay. I wasn't there but I bet Rome suffered like this too.The G pays on average 7 to 5 for work that just doesn't seem to get done. They have janitors in City Hall making 45,000 dollars a year. Think about it. He probably doesn't have a GED either.
$45k????
Forget the above- I'm running for JANITOR!!!!
Vote Vegas Vixen, in '10!
Vixen...
You had me at "buttloads"!
"Do you think that business that are retail and food establishments will not be affect by a removal of 1% of their revenue? They could be force in these times when many are already losing to layoff 1% of the employees."
First, a 1% increase in the sales tax does not equal a 1% decrease in revenue, since collected taxes are not counted as revenue... do you need to have net vs. gross explained to you?
Second, this is coming from the guy who dismisses the extra $1000 a year in tax relief most middle class families are getting from the Democrats and Obama.
So which is it, Sgt James F Nance Jr Rock? If pennies are a job/business killer in taxes, why don't they strengthen jobs/businesses when given to Americans as tax relief?
You just shot your "cheeseburgers" rhetoric in the foot!
vgsvxn: good luck on the job market. society ALWAYS needs good people like you, dont give up!
Thank you, Dipstick!
As you see- I've already got Gmag on board! :D
Vote early, vote often, a beer for every VegasLarry, and a cheeseburger for every Sgt. Rock.
I'll see you all, at my fundraiser! I'll bet I could clear upwards of tens of cents!! ;)
"since collected taxes are not counted as revenue"
I hope very person who owns a businesses will read this statement by the lib koolaid crowd.
See how they think?
They see very penny as the government's money and it is government's option to decide who gets "their" money.
So let's proceed and extend this idiot logic.
So if the sales tax was 100% then it would not harm businesses for their revenue would not be impacted.
Now the Vixen is talking about a fundraiser that I can relate too..
Where there's beer, I will be near...
Or:
Have beer? Will travel...
My vote can be bought, but it aint cheap. At least two beers...
Larry-
For TWO beers, you'll have to help me campaign! I'm talking a sticker on the bumper of your truck AND the one on your house! ;D
Should the good people, of the Great State of Nevada, elect me to this lofty position, I shall not forget who it was that got me there.
Not only will my $45k salary pay for a large annual beer budget Larry, but remember, the savings in salary, pension and benefits brings with it a BUTT-LOAD of cash for ALL!!
Maybe we can afford some tequila, as well!?! I'm thinking it would go pretty well with some cheeseburgers...
How does this work, kids? I've put my platform out there, to the public...when do I get the call from Mr. Greenspun, or Mr. Frederick- pledging their support?
As I said, I'm going to need to raise TENS of cents, to fund THIS campaign! Brian? Sherm? Can I count on your support? Your readers NEED Butt-loads of cash.
At this point, I would return my personal butt-load of cash to the treasury. I'd settle for the job!
Yup, I knew it. Sgt James F Nance Jr Rock doesn't understand the difference between gross and net.
What a surprise!
"They see very penny as the government's money and it is government's option to decide who gets "their" money."
Well, when you're talking about sales tax? Yes, that is not the business' money! Duh!
Meanwhile, his "cheeseburger" talking point is destroyed!
My name is ksand99...I am lib koolaid drinker.....I believe we just raises taxes for it has no impact on anything.
I see the difference between gross and net.
Gross is the hard work of Americans.
Net is whatever the government decides that they can have.
Obviously, ksand99 has never ran a business.
A increase in sales taxes reduces revenue in many ways.
One it removes money from the pocket of consumers that might purchase more goods.
It reduces the ability of the owners to adjust prices.
It makes the cost of the goods go up from a consumer perspective.
So saying that increase in sales taxes has no effect on revenue is a 10 on the dumb scale (10 being a koolaid dumb lib).
But you are a koolaid drinker and I would not really expect you have any idea of the effect of taxes on businesses or economy. I also do not believe you care not one bit of any negative effect either.
I'm self-employed, like you, buddy! I run my own business... like you, buddy!
Sorry, but your whining about a tiny increase in sales tax just can't be taken seriously.
For a year now, you've laughed at Obama's tax cuts for middle-class families. You said they were meaningless.
Now you want to characterize a tiny tax increase as the end of the world? Nope, no one is taking you seriously on that!
Yummmmm... Gmag-Remind me to add Kool-Aid to the fund-raiser shopping list. It will keep people away from Larry's beer!
How about we create a new category, for the additional penny-tax? We would only apply it to things like stock/investment purchases, and on homes or property valued at more than $300k.
Ah the world IS a game...Monopoly. Luxury taxes, and all.
Advance to "Go" collect your butt-load of cash. Vote Vixen, for Janitor in 2010.
vxn; there are no longer any homes left in vegas worth more than $300,000.
If you sent all the illegal immigrants back across the border, there would not be an overload on all of our social programs that has put many cities and states in the red. But wait, corporate America wants them for slave labor, taking Americans jobs because they will work for pennies although everything else is going up in price! And they probably wont sign a union card-go ahead blame the unions for everything that the corporate thugs and their lobbyist is responsible for.
Dipstick:
Sure there are! They are in master-planned communities, like Lake Las Vegas. They just don't allow common riffraff like us around them, so we forget they exist. ;)
I lost my job the beginning of the year and now I will be starting a new job and my wages are cut in half. Yes I am going to be working with a wage that is nearly 50% less than what I used to make so to all public government employees tough, you should get your overcompensated wages cut as much as possible and I don't want to hear anything from any of you leeches!!!
uhmm, I know there are many people here who won't believe it, but there are actually people employed by a govt. agency who actually WORK. I am one of them. Not EVERY govt. employee is an overpaid, underworked, unionized toad. Just like every Republican is not a rich, bottom feeding, scum sucking, slave owner looking to keep the poor under their thumb. I know this because I am a registered Republican too.
Too many people make these broad generalizations that don't help real debate. You can disagree with someone's ideas but that doesn't mean you should hate them.
[uhmm, I know there are many people here who won't believe it, but there are actually people employed by a govt. agency who actually WORK. I am one of them.]
So like....Which federal contracted organized cleaning job outfit do you work for ?
You must have the 6 day per week schedule with 5 to 6 hours per day of work if you ain't on the oncall list with them ITPE limited benefits that reject every claim of course.
In the real world the effects of recession are focused on cost cutting, of course they dont have the power to levy taxes on their customers. I hope you and your wife go to companies that are struggling and insist on paying more than the market or normal price so they dont " focus the effects of the recession on a few public employees.I really have a hard time deciding if the author is actually this naive or is simply acting. His entire premise is flawed, dramatically to the point no logical, reasonable person could not see it. A) Raise taxes that affect everyone on an equal basis B) Those who can afford to pay should be required to pay more (for example public employees whom believe their job security is so sacred that taxes should be raised to provide them with a job)
The author advocates raising gas taxes and property taxes, Obviously as a two public income house hold he can not grasp that raising gas taxes will affect an unemployed family struggling to survive far more than it will affect him, or the property tax increased paid by renters via monthly rent. Does he really not understand that many people are literally looking for change to get enough gas to make it to a job interview? Atleast he had the guts to say he and his wife were gov employees, of course taxes should be raised on the rest of us to ensure they and their livelihood are not disrupted. It is interesting to note the main thrust was not to lay off public employees while programs to serve the population was just a side note.
Amazing, really amazing. A huge portion of the population is in pain and the answer is raise taxes on what really are basics (gas, housing) to ensure they are not at risk.
Heres an idea if public employee security is so sacred that raising taxes on the people is the default answer, maybe there should be a "job security surcharge" levied on all public employees of say an extra 10%.
Again, I marvel that the right-sided types have no understanding of public employment.
Who needed these workers? YOU!
Who put out the job posting for these gigs? YOU!
Who's process did someone jump through like a trained monkey on parade to apply for one of these SUPPOSED "life-tenure, no-work, all-pay employment opportunities?" YOURS!
Who hired them, negotiated their wages, and put them to work?
YOU, YOU, & YOU!!!
Actually gmag39 you are wayyyyy off here. Actually it was another "trained monkey on parade" who posted, hired, made them jump through hoops, hired, negotiated their wages and hired them. Ironically you claim "you" as in we did the public did, yet resist (assuming from your tone) that we cannot decide to reduce staff. Of course we need government employees, of course no where near as many as we have and certainly not with the absolutely pathetic performance many turn in.
It is painfully obvious you are the one who does not understand public employment, so lets make it simple for you. They ALL work for us , collectively the public, so if we do not want to increase our cost to keep them, we dont. Very simple. Moreover, if you really know anything about public employment or agencies, you know it is all budget driven. In that the bigger your budget the more power and importance you have. Hence ever growing departments.
And finally your entire YOU! approach was just plain stupid. Know one here did any of those things (unless they are a department head at some agency) And if we did we can cut them as well.
You know I really wasnt sure about any cuts to state employees salaries or hours until I seeing gmag's postings. It is now clear it needs to be done if for no other reason than to remind them who really is in charge. And gmag if you are unaware, it is the people not state employees, not the legislator and not any union. You really arent helping them with your posts.
For all the overcompensated government employees here, I want to share you how little I used to make, I was getting paid around $15.00/hour for a few years without a cost of living raise and now my new job will only pay 8.50/hr, worse Im at the bottom of the corporate ladder so I will be working one of the worst shifts, graveyard. No seniority, no vacation, no holiday pay everything gone. To all of you greedy leeches out there do not overtax my minimum wage and take a pay cut that will make a difference. I've seen you people work and you do not deserve the wages you are collecting. Educators/teachers are the only one who deserve a decent wage in this state. To all incumbents out there, don't count on my vote.
I think state employees should stop whining. You have caused us so much grief already. We in the private sector have endured pay cuts, furloughs, and layoffs. We have to pay into our 401K retirements; not get golden hand cuffs like you and your wife will get. You have no idea what it is to work in private industry. Then the government wants to take more money for us so you can get even a better life and more retirement funds. Shame on you - you need to realize you are a major part of the problem we are now facing in government. You think you are entitled to everything - and anyone not working for the government, should pay you more. Stop whining and get a life.
I also get tired of everyone saying "education". My parents went to a school where there was 1 teacher for 8 grades - they had a wonderful life. I went to a school where there were 3 grades in a classroom; I thought it was great being able to "ease drop" on 5th grade lessons when I was in 3rd grade. We had to bring our lunches to school in our lunch bag. We had afternoon sports but the way we did it was everyone brought their own equipment from home (bats, balls, gloves for baseball), and we found parents or others who were willing to carpool the team in 3 cars to the other school sites when we had interschool games. It cost the school basically no more than maintaining the grounds. Now the government thinks that students can't get educated if they don't have golden hand cuffs for you and your wife; minimal classroom size; and school supported lunches. Again - shame on you and your wife. You are a major major part of the crisis and you don't care one iota about the sutdents - just yourselves. I hope you do get a major pay cut and lose all of your retirement benefits immediately. Shame on you and your wife.
Its actually kind of sad in a way the writer and some other posters, gmag for instance think they are making some statement on behalf of employees. They dont even realize how much damage they are doiing to the public employees with their ridiculous stance. If they really believe it, they would better serve there cause by allowing people to see cuts as an option rather than opening their mouths making people see it as the correct option. Keep talking dummies.
Most the comments on this page are a waste of readers time, and offer no solutions. {yea I mean you Vixen-janitor, whatever the H you are} Grow up please!
Many of you are picking on government employees, when the fact of the matter is its YOUR elected officals that are running that town into the ground. They are all hired guns for the casino exectives, and mining companies, and you all just pick and feast on each other? Get a clue....you've been duped! You need to stick together, and vote out the incompetents that are running that town. Cutting tax payers salaries isn't the solution.
Martin, there have already been cuts.
State agencies have refused to fill positions, leaving less people to do more work.
Employees have had pay cuts through mandatory furloughs. They are paying more for their health insurance.
You seem to be inferring that the employees are not suffering along with the rest of Nevada. You are wrong.
"You seem to be inferring that the employees are not suffering along with the rest of Nevada. You are wrong."
I have inferred no such thing, and they are not suffering nearly as bad as many of the people paying their salary.
Its horrible that we even need to consider these things but thats where we are at. And my insurance went up $140 also so they are not alone.
In an early post you tried to lay the responsibility of their livelihood on "you" meaning us, the tax payer, by inferring, no saying we decided to open their position, hire them, make them jump through hoops to get the job, negotiated thier benefits and salaries and so on.
And I was simply pointing out that A) no we did not, one of our employees did B) we have the right and authority to undo it.
It was honestly a cheap and poor attempt to make "you" feel obligated and responsible for their positions even at the expense of taxing an already drained public.
"You know I really wasnt sure about any cuts to state employees salaries or hours until I seeing gmag's postings. It is now clear it needs to be done if for no other reason than to remind them who really is in charge."
You clearly inferred that there were no "cuts to state employees salaries or hours," contrary to the facts.
Furthermore, you compound that error by spitefully saying employees need to be hurt because you don't like their tone?
"In an early post you tried to lay the responsibility of their livelihood on "you" meaning us, the tax payer, by inferring, no saying we decided to open their position, hire them, make them jump through hoops to get the job, negotiated thier benefits and salaries and so on. "
Care to point out the post in which I said or inferred any of this? It seems you are confusing me with a different commenter.
No thats not clearly inferring they have not seen any cuts, they have and they will see more. We are discussing further , as what was being discussed in the latest session.
Now , now not lets not play little word games, by inserting phrases like " spitefully saying employees need to be hurt because you dont like there tone".
Their tone has nothing to do with it, the concept that we need to increase taxes on a struggling public to ensure public employees do not see anymore cuts is what it is about. And I would wager that the vast majority of the tax paying public agrees. They are public servants, the public is not their servant to simply increase taxes on to make sure they jobs and current pay structure remains intact.
Let me ask you a very simple question, how are public employees any different than private sector employees? In the private sector when there is not enough money, people are released ( as they have been in mass numbers) why should public servants have the ability to have the public forcefully pay more taxes to secure their jobs? Thats a very simple question, please answer it directly. Funny how most of the "you cant touch public employees" crowd refuse to actually justify why they should be able to forcefully take money from the public under treat of lose of property or jail time.
And you are correct I Had confused with some one else. My apologies.
looks like lobo got owned from from martin123.
"Let me ask you a very simple question, how are public employees any different than private sector employees?"
They aren't different. What's your point?
"In the private sector when there is not enough money, people are released ( as they have been in mass numbers) why should public servants have the ability to have the public forcefully pay more taxes to secure their jobs?"
In the private sector, when there is not enough money, the business has an executive decision to make. Should they charge more for their product? Expand into new markets? Should they take out a loan? Should they lay off workers? Should they cut expenses elsewhere? You, again, are inferring that there is only one route to go, when there are many.
Poll after poll showed Nevadans supported raising revenue through additional taxes on businesses and mining. The people elected to serve those Nevadans acted accordingly. It seems you are upset that you are in the minority, but even most republicans in the legislature also supported raising revenue, probably along with some layoffs.
So as far as "what gives you the right," etc? Democracy.
My point should be very clear, 887 million dollar short fall for any employer means they can not afford their current payroll. You do not need to be a cpa to understand that its very clear. So the state employees may see more cuts to hours or over all numbers of employees.
"In the private sector, when there is not enough money, the business has an executive decision to make. Should they charge more for their product? Expand into new markets? Should they take out a loan? Should they lay off workers? Should they cut expenses elsewhere? You, again, are inferring that there is only one route to go, when there are many."
The state government does not produce a product do you understand that or do you like to make believe they are a real business. They do not have market to expand to or a product to charge for. Other than touching the sacred cows, mining and gaming, if we consider expanding taxes equates to expanding markets. Take out a loan? Again you do not need to be a cpa to see we can not afford to borrow more money, it has to be paid back and Carson City is not Washington, it can not just print money.
And yet again, I did not infer any such thing. The author of the editorial "inferred" that raising taxes was preferable to any more cuts to public employees. ( Of course he and his wife are gov employees so he is arguing for his interests) There are not many routes to go for a state government, they tax and they spend. Thats really it, they do not produce products. Now, they can mandate you use there services ad increase the fees, which we are going to have to do.
It seems you love to frame and define peoples positions by prefacing things that were never said with "you are inferring".
Moreover, "It seems you are upset that you are in the minority, but even most republicans in the legislature also supported raising revenue, probably along with some layoffs." Thats quite the assumption considering this entire thread was based on the authors suggestion to raise gas and property taxes on the public "because it effects everyone equally" and I oppose that (because it does not). I never mentioned mining or business taxes.The entire discussion was centered on raising taxes on basic daily needs of an already strained public. Oh, let me guess I inferred again. Play the your inferred game and try and define someones else's position. Maybe they will play your game with you.
"So as far as "what gives you the right," etc? Democracy." Can you show me where I ask that question of you and what it was in regard to?
"Can you show me where I ask that question of you and what it was in regard to?"
You said:
"justify why they should be able to forcefully take money from the public under treat of lose of property or jail time."
In essence: what gives you the right?
"My point should be very clear, 887 million dollar short fall for any employer means they can not afford their current payroll. You do not need to be a cpa to understand that its very clear."
Maybe if you were $887 million short and your only expenditure was personnel and you had no abilities to expand your income, then yes, payroll would be the only cut.
"The state government does not produce a product do you understand that or do you like to make believe they are a real business. "
I'm assuming that's a question, even though it lacks the correct punctuation. They provide a multitude of services, like any other business. They provide services to the needy, to the unemployed, to students, to businessowners, to wildlife enthusiasts. They provide funding for higher education, which produces educated students with degrees.
The other point which you missed is that the state has ways of increasing revenue, akin to a business. They can charge more in fees, for example. There is not a single way to compensate for lagging revenue. The legislature took a look at the polling data that suggested Nevadans would rather see businesses taxed more than see additional cuts.
That's representative government, my friend. The power they derive is from the people.
Democracy, a taxing monster, no wait a minute. Rise up for less taxes. Quotation into constitution is needed.
The entire context of this board is based on a public employee ( and kudos for him for saying it , a lot of people would have not said that and exposed his self interest and he sounds like he means well) saying raise gas tax and property tax because it effects everyone equally. (which it does not)
Now I ask how public employees justify forcing the public to pay more under...we know the rest. You rephrased that to "what gives you the right" so I am going to do a bit of my own "inferring" and say that would infer you are a public employee. Which would explain the nerve I apparently struck.
And again some how you have overlooked the entire context of this long thread. Raising gas and property to avoid cuts to public employees based on the completely false pretense that "they effect everyone equally". I have never said payroll cuts should or could fund the short fall.
We were not talking about other tax sources, mining or gaming for example. (And governments rarely produce revenue, they tax. In many cases spelled f-e-e through mandates. )
And yes that was a question. Please excuse the punctuation error, I am a product of public education. (That was a joke, no need to respond) They are not "like any other business" first of all , other businesses have to produce profit or fail. (Unless you happen to be a large bank or automobile manufacturer) They at least need to break even. They do provide very important services to the needy and unemployed ( not enough in my opinion) and that is done as a redistribution of tax money. It is not a business service that they could charge more for or expand their market as you correctly pointed out is a private sector option. And I mean no disrespect to you or any public employees but to suggest they provide "services to business owners" is comical. I assure if you ask business owner if the state provides services for them you will get laughed at the vast majority of the time. They are viewed as an opponent most of the time.
I did not miss the point that their are other way for the state to increase revenue. In fact I mentioned the sacred cows of mining and gaming early on in our bantering, as well as fees increases.( which is another form of tax)
It seems you completely missed the point of this thread and what I was responding to. I agree 100%, there is no single way to compensate for the shortfall.
I am well aware of representative government and where the power is derived from, that was my initial. I bet a lot of incumbents are going to be reminded of that this election. Right or wrong they are in for a rough election. Evan Bayh knows this thats why he bailed. He is no dummy he know being an incumbent now is toxic.
It's been years since I drove down from my home (at the time) in L.A. to go to the races in Tiajuana. Entering Mexico for the first time was quite an eye opener.
The physical infrastructure all but disappeared in the instant it took to cross the border.
Those images come to mind as I read the posts from folks who hopefully, will not get what they seem to wish for, a Nation without adequate public services, or quality roads (not that ours are the best anyway) or an educated population etc.
So while we pinch those few bucks we might have left until they squeal, let's remember why death and taxes will always be with us (no choice with either) and try to make the best of our lot by demanding that our leaders are moderate, thougtful and able to balance the requirements of the community with its ability to produce the necessary revenue.
When we turn off the siren calls from the extremes of both the right and the left, we will get back on the right track.
typical liberal mantra...
"those who can afford to pay more"
and of COURSE a bloated federal employee and a school teacher ( who both get PAID from my tax dollars ) see no problem in taking more of my money.
the more you tax, the less i can spend at YOUR stores, YOUR restaurants.
liberals seem to just be tone deaf to basic economic theory. that's why their positions on taxes and life in general can not be taken seriously.
vgsvxn: only the people who LIVE in lake las vegas think their property is worth over $300000.
ron your way off.
add a 25 cent tax on alcoholic drinks in resorts, theres a few million a year.
NV increased vehicle registration, where is that money going?
make casinos shell out a few more bucks
add a dollar to every room fee.
make insurance companies add a dollar to every vehicle monthly policy to go to the state.
make insurance companies have to pay a fee or increase a current one if there already is one to salvage a car (not passable on to customer)
the mortgage forclousure fee increase is a joke, they should have made it higher.
there are so many ways they could have raised more money
I have no idea how to raise taxes equally, you surely get miss-spelled argumentation how to spread money or taxes increasing. Someone last in line has thoughts to drop, get unemployed, no taxes.
Out of society. Get wild, hippies in 1970's. Members of government have to show first-class way for us divergent minority members of country.
Discipline, Sir Minister of the Crown.
RWall:
I don't wanna grow up, and you can't make me- you're not the boss of me!
That said- I have indeed offered some possible solutions. If you'd read any of my posts, or the ones I was replying to, you'd have noticed that the main idea was that I (and many others) would be more than happy to accept the same type of public jobs at a reduced salary. (With a facetious annual wage of $15k) Replacing the current employees in this manner would mean a SAVINGS, or reduction in expected debt, thereby reducing the budget shortfall. The STATE's budget. The one that is NOT set by elected officials from any ONE 'town'.
The rest of it, is; Vegas is a nickname for a large city in Southern Nevada, a Vixen is both a female fox (Sooo true!) and, as Gmag pointed out, one of Santa's reindeer.
I believe in the American way, and so I don't see anything wrong with changing my mind to the job that was posted as being a $45k position.
In case you took your math classes at the same time as your finishing school lessons, I"ll explain that 15 from 45 leaves 30. Which is TWICE as much as 15. The campaign is merely about leaving the position to be filled, using the 'voice' of The People.
I have not yet BEGUN to campaign!
Martin123: Your words argue my point, eloquently.
Dipstick: You caught me...As shocking as it is, with all that money I'd be making, I do NOT live at Lake Las Vegas. May I count on your vote, despite the fact that I have such a MAJOR personal flaw? ;)
stevem blabs;
"and of COURSE a bloated federal employee and a school teacher ( who both get PAID from my tax dollars ) see no problem in taking more of my money."
Yep. They broke into Nevada and STOLE those jobs! No one really wanted them here; there was no job opening! They just waltzed right in and set up shop, outright STOLE those 2 feeding-at-the-public-trough JOBS that I personally PAY FOR! And now they wanna keep them jobs, and still get paid!?!?! What gives?
Tax the rich, feed the poor
Till we run out, rich no more
Vixen;
I should have paid attention before I threw my hat into your ring! I thought you were lookin' for a Janitor gig that paid $15 PER-HOUR. (Public or private.)
Fool me once, shame on you...
I wouldn't mow your lawn for $15 k per-year!!!!
Do I still get "buttloads" of CASH?
you prommmised!
Gmag:
You certainly DO get to keep your butt-load of cash!
You see, for starters, I said I'd take a job at $15k (or approx. $8.00/hr @ 36 hours)for what is basic Secretary work. (It's $15k MORE than I earn now- and still FAR less than 'we' are paying!)
For the janitor, I wanted $30K. (from the $45 that someone posted about being paid to clean floors.)
Either way, when you multiply this sort of savings, by the number of public sector positions which could be competently filled by people who understand how tough the job market REALLY is right now...you end up with-
*Say it with me, boys and girls*
BUTT-LOADS OF CASH FOR ALL NEVADANS!
It's not YOU that has to do it, G-mag! Just vote for ME to do it!