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Rebels dropped from top 25 polls after back-to-back losses
UNLV will begin a five-game stretch to close regular season on Wednesday at Utah
UNLV forwards Darris Santee, right, and Chace Stanback sit on the bench in disappointment in the final seconds of the Rebels’ 68-58 loss to San Diego State Saturday, Feb. 13, 2010, at Viejas Arena in San Diego.
Monday, Feb. 15, 2010 | 11:15 a.m.
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A week ago, UNLV played its way into both top 25 polls for the second time this season.
Monday they were dropped for the second time this season.
Suffering 10-point losses last week at home to New Mexico and at San Diego State not only put a small dent into UNLV's NCAA tournament résumé, but also cost the Rebels their spot in each poll.
In the Associated Press rankings, where the Rebels (19-6 overall, 7-4 Mountain West) checked in at No. 23 a week ago, they still received five votes.
As for the ESPN/USA Today coaches poll, Lon Kruger's club received 11 votes after landing at No. 25 last week.
Elsewhere in the Mountain West, New Mexico (23-3, 9-2) used its victories Wednesday in Las Vegas and Saturday in overtime at Utah to bounce up to No. 12 in the AP poll and No. 15 in the coaches poll. The Lobos have won nine straight after losing their first two league games.
BYU (23-3, 9-2), which capped its week with a 43-point blowout of Air Force on Saturday at home, landed this week at No. 16 in the AP poll and No. 14 in the coaches poll.
A couple of notable shakeups near the top involved Syracuse dropping from No. 3 to No. 5 following a home loss over the weekend at home against Louisville — a UNLV non-conference opponent. Another notable UNLV foe from the non-con season — Kansas State — is up to No. 7 in both polls.
The Rebels continue their run towards the postseason Wednesday at Utah. The Utes defeated UNLV, 73-69, on Jan. 16 in Las Vegas.
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Newest Bracketology on ESPN.com today has UNLV as a No. 7 seed still. Andy Katz mentioned the last two losses were not "bad" losses. Bubble Watch mentioned UNLV missed out on locking up a bid with a win, but still should be in come March.
Wednesday night is big. U-N-L-V!
Kind of surprised UNLV is still receiving votes in AP (32nd) and Coaches (30th), but will definitely take it.
Definitely not as bad of a week nationally as some made it appear around here.
Come on, Rebels! Go out there and fight for this!!! U-N-L-V!!!
CHOKE!
Being ranked is the kiss of death for this team.
Very simple now.
Win the final five reg. season games.
Win the first round of the Vegas Invitational.
Anything less = nit.
i understand being a fan, and being uset with losing. but to say this team is NIT bound is insane... we lose 2 games to 2 physical teams withought our best rebounder/defender and everyone flip flops on the rebels.... i dont get it.
come march we will still be in the tourney.. and then everyone who is talking NIT will be back on the bandwagon.... same ol' same ol'. if you think kruger doesnt have us on the right path you are nuts.
Oh boy, a 7 seed with 5 games to go. Is that really acceptable? Maybe it's because I'm from the east coast but I really don't understand this celebration of average in Las Vegas. Where I come from being picked 3rd means expecting 1st. UNLV has a culture of accepting mediocrity. Hopefully Livengood can change that.
Does everyone around here really accept a 7 seed from UNLV basketball? Please respond?
They will make the tournament IF they win out. ESPN bracketology means nothing.
Bigfish, of course we'd all love to see the Rebels as a #1 seed in the NCAA Tournament, but with this particular team, I'll take a #7 seed, which is far better than mediocrity (see Bayno, Bill for what a mediocre team looks like). The Rebels only have one starter back from last year, have two transfers who hadn't played in over a year, one of whom was injured and didn't play in the last 2 losses, and are a very young team. If you would have said before this season that as of today, they'd be 19-6 and receiving votes in the polls, I think any realistic fan would have taken that in a heartbeat. At least this team hasn't fallen way short of expectations like North Carolina, UConn, and Louisville have.
And as far as the NIT talk, you guys are way off. The Rebels as of today are still solidly in the NCAA Tournament according to all projections, and even a loss to Utah is not going to knock them out. As long as they take care of business in the last 4 regular season games and the first game in the MWC Tournament, they are absolute locks to get in. It's just a matter of getting the best seed possible. If they can win their last 5 regular season games and the MWC Tournament, and if they were to beat BYU and New Mexico in the MWC Tournament, they probably could be as high as a #4 or #5 seed, as crazy as that sounds to some of you.
Hey hoopsfan, what was your expectations last year when we had the whole team returning: Wink, Darger, Rougeau to name a few. I can tell you that they were pretty high. The reason we stunk it up was because we had 2 star talent over achieving the year before. You can only go so far with mediocre talent. How much more is Massamba, Jasper, and Bellfield going to improve. Not much. As for Marshall and Stanback, I think they can improve.
What I think alot of people on this board would like to see is the recruitment of players with the talent of the Aztecs freshman Leonard. As fans we are tired of seeing the faces of our Rebels look like they've just been bent over in a prison shower following a game with a team like san Diego St. I've never seen a more demoralized group in my life after a game.
This sounds like the same conversation we often have about the football team...all of you "experts" say we need to recruit better, more talented athletes and big men. While I don't hang out with the coaching staff too often, I can guarantee they are trying! It is a process, not a simple decision or event...the caliber of our players is improving, as are the results and expectations!
I question some of Kruger's in-game decisions but there is no doubt we are on the right track...go Rebels!
Yea, we're on the right track with Lon. Maybe after year 12 of his tenure we might have a center who can average 10 and 9. Maybe after year 17 of his tenure we'll have an athlete who has 50% of the athleticism that Kawhi Leonard has.
Keep settling for having a bubble team and things will never change.
I guess what we should say, according to your logic, is to recruit smaller less athlectic players. Huh!
For a million a year I think we can expect the coach to land a few top line big men like Steve Fisher and Steve Alford. Its not asking too much.
Kruger still has my support, but my confidence is waning since his stubborn playing of Chop Jones.
What I do not understand is how people seem to believe that Kruger can either recruit guys with character or guys that have talent. Does every kid who cant play have character and all that can play a derelict? People dont seem to understand that there are alot of top 25 teams that have had no negative headlines with players this year. I do not think that talent and character are qualities that are mutually exclusive. Why is it so hard for Coach to go get guys that can play at the highest levels and be an asset to the program. Top 25 teams do it every year. I guarantee you that we could find players that are every bit as good a kids as Santee, Massamba, Wallace etc that can play a helluva lot better. Question is will we ever sign them? Walking Rebels!
our depth in the backcourt is probably the best in the conference... massamba, matt, and darris have given solid minutes at the big man spot... chase was a huge disappointment on saturday... i agree that he can get better but his head wasn't in the game... we need a few more athletes at the hybrid small forward/power foward spot...which is why i think getting someone like polee is crucial look who they have to match up with... hobson, leonard, sometimes billy white, babbit for two more years, at times j tavernari - theyve missed djas big time the last two games to match up with those types... our overall talent is still top tier in the conf no matter how much some people will gripe
Dog gonit rebels, step it up a notch ad push the ball!
Perfect post gumby you nailed it right on the head. Tre is the only player on this team that is UNLV worthy. When all you have to do to beat the reb's is double Tre all game you don't have a good team. This team has way too many holes to plug, good teams don't play their worst ball at the end of the year. I'm not a Kruger fan but he cannot make any adjustments with this team because there is nothing to work with. Six years in and people are still saying wait until next year. You can only live so long with playing like the little steam engine that could!! Ballers win games, ballers win conference titles, ballers keep their teams in the top 20, ballers make deep runs in the tourney, and ballers build winning programs.
While I don't hang out with the UNLV coaching at all, I do get the impression, from attending their functions and interacting with them, that they are a fine group of guys. They seem to be hard working individuals and appear to operate in the best interest of the school, players, fans and community. Overall I would say they are very likable and represent UNLV and Las Vegas in a very positive fashion. The problem is that we want greater results. I am sure they do too. It does look like we are starting to see a pattern now. This is what concerns us. Many of us are describing the same thing. We are attempting to convey to Kruger and his crew that we are not satisfied with the mediocre results that are now beginning to appear each and every year. All of us have opinions about what to do about it. The bottom line is that it is starting to look like their approach is not yielding the strong, dominate team that many of us desire. They can choose to stay the course and take a chance that their approach will yield better results. It is clear though that the roar of the crowd will get louder if the results do not change. It is my opinion that as a community of fans we have been patient and have provided the necessary tools for Kruger to succeed. Hopefully they hear the call that we are not satisfied. WE WANT A DOMINATING BALL CLUB. They would be making a mistake if they take the approach that we are just fans and fans are always like this.
Massamba, Shaw, and Santee are allergic to rebounds.
Watching those guys get pushed around under the basket makes me want to gouge my eyes out.
@tito,
Massamba has committed more fouls than he has gotten rebounds this year. Check the stats. Kawhi Leonard averages more rebounds by himself than all three of our pathetic big men. Check out the stats if you don't believe me. You lost complete credibility by saying those three "have given solid minutes".
Please.
I disagree with the post that Bellfield and Jasper will not improve. Everyone had Bellfield coming off the bench this year. He has actually been one of the best point guards in the league and gives you spot scoring. He has been less aggressive the last few games with knee pain, but still better then most guards in the league, and to say Jasper won't improve is funny. He will improve just with increased confidence. He was just starting to be more assertive when he got hurt. Those guys are quality players. As is AM.
Run-nRebels,
Do you really think Jasper is going to develop a jumpshot next year. His last year? Good teams will slack off Jasper because they know he can't shoot. Nobody had higher expectations for Jasper than I, but the truth is the truth. His stats won't be much better next year because he has limited shooting skills.
Bellfield is a better than average point guard, but he's not going to run faster or jump higher than he does this year. He's not a great shooter. He can't dominate a game offensively or defensively. He is what he is. Slightly better than average which is good in the mountain west.
Stanback can improve because he can become more strong and physically mature. Marshall plays like a rookie but has huge upside. He just needs to learn how to play smart and use is incredible athletic ability wisely.
Coach Kruger is still living off his almost Elite 8 appearance when the Rebs narrowily lost to Oregon. Wendell White, Kevin Kruger, and Joel Anthony aren't walking through that door. Unfortunately, I think Kruger feels he has done enough to save his job for a while with that run he made in the Tourney so there really isn't a sense of urgency from Kruger. Fact is Kruger isn't a McDonald's All-American type of recruiter so Rebel fans you will never have a team that is in the national title race so get over it.
bet,
are you serious??? tre is the only player worthy of being on this team? you are telling me that no other player on our squad deserves a spot...... that is just stupid man.... puff puff pass.... stop smokin that sh*t
letsgo,
we forget about all those "ballers" kruger had come here that left for one reason or another or were asked to leave... i think considering all the facts kruger is easily taking us in the right direction..
building a team is a lot like building a buisness, you surround yourself with the right people who are willing to put in the work and buy in to your ways of getting the job done.
you guys keep saying that all we say is next year.... and that is true to a point. but if we keep talking about next year being better.... doesnt that mean he is doing his job?
canes,
you are talking out of your as ss. anyone who has talked to kruger can tell you that what you just posted is FAR from the truth.
not a mcdonalds type of recruiter?? isnt he recruiting one now? i know he hasnt signed yet but let me ask you this... 6 years ago does corey joseph even give us a look??
i didnt think so.
Sportsgal702,
Name one player on this team not named Tre' that is better than the average baller at 24hr fitness?
Cory Joseph already knows that he isnt going to be a rebel it is only a photo shoot for Kruger to actually make people think that he is after these types of players. Kruger already knows that he doesn't stand a chance at CJ, I'll be back to say I told ya so.... What is your infatuation with Lonnie boy? You must have a man size poster of Kruger stapled to the ceiling above your bed so you can dream about him all night. The cat makes over a mill a year and this is what he puts on the floor after 6 years. Don't give me that garbage that ballers don't want to come to Vegas, it is the coach not the city or the program!!!!!
I guess we all need to just close our eyes and wish for better, more athletic recruits...from what I am hearing it is apparently that simple.
Remember, these kids who you say we should so easily be able to sign were not even born the last time UNLV was relevant...why would they come here? Beacuse we won a championship two decades ago? It is only recently our name has had any real national prominence attached to it again and now we are getting looks from more big-time recruits. This is all part of the process....it is not "settling".
bet,
player not named tre... better than the average baller at 24.. hmm this is tough. d jazz chace wallace shaw santee marshall j hawk brice oscar chop hanni martinez tyler lopez qt..... and lew hill. you sure won that arguement.
so you are saying corey owes lon.... and he is putting us as one of his 5 choices because he wants us (the fans) to think lon is recruiting big time players??? riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. he might come here.... might not.... my point is he wouldnt have considered us at all if we were not improving. you are 0-2 bud...
infatuation with lon.
resort to this when you cant win your argument huh?? i think he is a very good coach and has unlv headed in the right direction.
i didnt say las vegas was not an attractive place to go to school. i can tell you though... that both wade brothers told me a lot of local players do not like to stay here because they dont want to be distracted by friends when they are trying to focus on b-ball..... makes sense i guess. but other than that i see no reason not to come to unlv.
and yeah taking a program that was 16-10 and had not won 20 games in how long???? to a team that wins 20+ games a year.... thats what he puts on the floor....
0-3 you lose. go smoke a bowl or something clown
Actually patticus I do think bellfield will develop a good jump shot and ability to take it to the whole with authority. As a junior and senior his confidence will be much better. I used to cringe whenever Tre'von shot the ball, because he was a bad shooter last year. This year he realized he was the man, and he stepped up. I still cringe when he shoots those three pointers. The thing that Bellfield has going for his shot is he shoots with a lot of arch. He needs to get his pull-up going better, but he has games where he scores 10-15 points, I think that will be more common as he gets more comfortable. Jasper, I think you may be right because, much like myself, he is a PG and looks to pass first. Players like that tend to not look for a shot, and by the time they realize they have a shot, its to late. I think we will see a vast improvement with all of these guards if only because we will have low post players, QT and Lopez, who will actually catch a feed. I don't know how many times they have made great passes into the post for easy scores and had the big guys fumble it away. Unfortunately, it puts added pressure on the guards to score or make perfect passes. I agree not guards who will dominate, like maybe CJ, but very good players that will be better with better pieces around them.
What kills me about recruiting isn't always related to the fact that we don't have the ability to recruit like the top 25 teams (or even some that are close). I can't say I've ever been with Kruger when he's been recruiting, but I doubt that's he's looking specifically for mediocraty.
There is one thing we don't have that the top programs have and it's national recognition. I'm sorry, but The Montain doesn't cut it. As it's been stated before, this is (sadly) a business. The top tallent want to be seen. And what better way than by going to a team at least advancing in the tournament, being played on ESPN and the major networks. Most players want to go to the next level and not getting that exposure seriously limits their desire to play at a school whose broadcasting is primarily on a proprietary network. (IMO it should be called the BYU fan channel but I digress)
Would I be happy with a one and done, I would if it didn't hurt the program. I also don't see that due to the lack of our national exposure. Yes we were ranked several times this year, but we still weren't getting the looks that a one and done type player would even consider looking at our school.
I have to agree that our team lacks consistancy. However, this year has been a surprise to me. We have great ups and horrible downs. But one thing we have to remeber, these are still kids.
They have problems too. They feel it just as bad (if not worse) when their shots aren't falling. They have to work with the pressures of keeping up grades and providing the highest level of basketball standards for critical fans. You may not support Lon and what he is doing, but these kids (and this team) need our support. Let's show these kids that were there for them. Gripping about what we don't have this year isn't going to change the fact we still don't have it. We will get better over time one way or another and I know we will rise from the ashes a better team for it.
Sports guy - Ballers that left here???? The guys that left here did so because they could not play at this level not because they were too good! Lets take a look at these "ballers". Emmanuel Adeife went to Louisiana Lafayette(Sun Belt Conference) averaged 2 ppg and 3.5rbs. Lamar Roberson also at ULL averaging 4.9 ppg and 2.9rbs. Marcus Lawrence (Idaho) averaging 2.4ppg and 1 assist. Beas Hamga playing at Weatherford JC, not starting. Troy Cage(unable to play at Tennessee Chatanooga because of injury) and Deshawn Mitchell transfers to Rider of the powerhouse Metro Atlantic Conference and red shirting this year. Now, please explain to us which one of the "ballers" would have been great players at UNLV when they can not even produce at smaller schools against much weaker competition. BTW these are all Kruger recruits.
marcus lawrence 92 or 93 espn
roberson 109 nationally by rivals
mitchell 91 espn
everything is 20/20 in hindsight. but coming out of HS these players looked promising.
all three of those players would have been good at unlv had they had the right character and bought into the program.
open mouth.... insert foot
That is your argument??? Roberson was a Houston reject!! If you cant play for Penders you cant play. Lawrence could not start over a walk on and now cannot start at Idaho. Mitchell could not hit the rim from 10 feet and is now at Rider. If these guys could play they would have transfered to a major conference not the WAC, Sunbelt and Metro Atlantic. Part of recruiting is evaluating talent and not going by a Paul Biancardi ranking(a coach from Wright State). Hamga was a five star recruit who could not catch a ball. You think Kruger and his staff could have seen that by watching him play? BTW he going to end up in the SEC, Big East, Big 12??? Yeah right.
Open ass remove head.
your post makes no sense... i didnt ask you how these recruits panned out. i asked if these players all looked promising coming out of high school... and the answer is yes. gumby.... you cant argue that.
to develope you need to have character.... and they have not deveoped. if you lived in vegas and watched marcus lawrence play you would know he was a stud. complete stud. and he just didnt develope..... thats character, not talent level...
The point you are missing is I do not care how highly they are ranked I care if they can play. Lots of players are highly ranked that can not play at the highest levels. That is part of recruiting. Evaluate the talent. Is it high school good or major Div I good? Never mind how many stars, can they play? How many stars do you think Anthony, Hunt, Scurry, J.Jones, Gilliam, Paddio, Graham etc. had coming out of high school? Forget the stars and focus on the talent. You are right I never saw Lawrence play in high school but I did see that he could not start at point guard over a walk on like Curtis Terry who was not a point guard until his senior season.
BTW what are you trying to convince me of? That Kruger can not recruit or that he cannot coach?
"You are right I never saw Lawrence play in high school but I did see that he could not start at point guard over a walk on like Curtis Terry who was not a point guard until his senior season"
that walk on was better than, and would have started over most pgs in the nation that year.
"The point you are missing is I do not care how highly they are ranked I care if they can play. Lots of players are highly ranked that can not play at the highest levels. That is part of recruiting. Evaluate the talent. Is it high school good or major Div I good?"
see above comment about development.
"Now, please explain to us which one of the "ballers" would have been great players at UNLV"
i responded to that quote gumby. he obviously did recruit because they were goof recruits coming out of hs.... and he did not get an opportunity to coach because they left..
you are making yourself look worse with every post.... keep it coming, they are amusing to read
What is laughable is you think you are proving something. See the above numbers that your "ballers" are averaging at other universities far away from UNLV. BTW your quote was to develop you need character? What if we try a novel idea and recruit someone who does not need to develop? How about they come in and make a major impact right away. You still have not answered my question what are you trying to convince me of? We can argue all day about whether those "ballers" could play. You say the reason the did not play is because of lack of character I say it is because they sucked. The lack of character came from the fact they were not getting the playing time they wanted. It is easy to become a malcontent when you get no time. If good character is the pre requisite to great development how come Kendall Wallace is not all conference by now?
ask any HS recruit if they need to develope and see how many tell you no..
we have impact freshman on the team...
i didnt say every player with good character is going to be an all star... i said that if you dont have good character there is a high chance of failure.
it is obvious that i know more about this than situation than you do so i will leave it at that. cant argue with stupid people.
you have just hit skip status for me.... any post i see from you will not be read because your posts have no value. you have no idea what you are talking about. therefore, reading them will be and is a waste of time.
Thank you I am tired of having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
OK sportsguy I'll bite. The point is that these kids your talking about are not good now, they were not good at UNLV, so they probably were not good coming out of high school no matter what Rivals or ESPN said. Lon recruited them, and as a basketball coach that makes 1M/year, he needs to do a better job recruiting. I hope Lon isn't making his recruiting decisions based on what Rivals or ESPN thinks.
Obviously they had to be good coming out of high school to be rated and recruited in the first place. I knew plenty of good high school players that never got a sniff from any recruiting services; you know why, because they were not good enough for the college game!
All of this second guessing is comical....you win some, with walk-ons like Rene Rougeau and Curtis Terry, and you lose some, with 4 & 5 star recruits like Hamga and Lawrence. You have to look at the median performance and it has improved and continues to do so under Lon's regime.
Sportsguy you are comical I play with & against better talent at my local gym in Cali then what is playing for the rebels currently. Kruger cannot recruit and is a C+ coach. Who said recruiting top national talent has anything to do with a national championship 20 years ago? It is the coach that wins players to the program above everything else. I'm done with you fool....
I think UNLV makes the Top 5 of teams that were in the Top 25 and didn't belong there in the first place. Scratch that, half these teams in the Top 25 suck. Butler would be 4th or 5th best in our conference.
I am looking at the median performance over the last 3 years 44, and I don't see the improvement. Last years team was an underinvestment as is, in my opinion, this years team. Is next years team going to be any better? I think that a lot of UNLV fans have excessively low expectations. With 5 games left to go UNLV is already out of the running to win the regular season title and there are many who are OK with that. Are you OK with Lon getting 1M/year for underachieving. I get fired if I underachieve. How about you? Yes, there are more people coming to games, and that is a great thing. Now, let's see the results on the floor. The kids are hard working basketball players and should not take the responsibility. Look at the pictures the Sun shows after these losses, always of the kids. Why not show us a picture of Lon after a loss, maybe collecting his paycheck. And those players did not have to be good coming out of high school to be rated and recruited. It's just someones opinion.
fish,
valid point. if i was underachieving at my job i most certainly would be fired. tell me how he is underachieving.
because the numbers i see are as follows:
average wins per season +30%
average home attendance +50%
so if we are talking about his whole tenure compared to the 6 prior seasons.... i would say he is winning... and bringing in more $$$ to the program.
in my opinion we should and will progress even further. but to me those numbers alone are enough to keep kruger around.
agree? or disagree? and plese explain.
I'll take your word for the numbers and I agree. Money is the answer, attendace is up and as much as Kruger has to take responibility for the product on the floor, he also gets credit for butts in the seats. As for the wins however, this season isn't over yet. Let's hope for a tourney champ and take the decision away from the commitee.