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StumbleCounty to again review strip club kickbacks for cabbies
Long-simmering issue of strip clubs paying bonuses for customers goes before County Commission once again
A taxi leaves Deja Vu Showgirls in April. Several strip clubs pay cabdrivers bonuses to bring in customers, but several topless clubs want the Clark County Commission to crack down on the payments.
Wednesday, Feb. 10, 2010 | 2:01 a.m.
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Larry Brown
Sheriff Doug Gillespie
As a professional poker player, Steve Graham is no stranger to the idiosyncrasies of Las Vegas. But he couldn’t believe it when, during a December visit, he was told cabdrivers would pay passengers for the privilege of dropping them off at the cabbie’s topless club of choice.
Then he and four friends discovered for themselves that such deals could be had.
After going from cab to cab at Mandalay Bay, they found a driver who agreed transport them for free, give them each $30 — $150 total — in exchange for dropping them at Sapphire gentlemen’s club.
Graham said that upon arrival the driver handed them each $30, which covered the club’s entrance fee. “I thought I’d heard it all,” said Graham, 30, who now lives in Illinois. “It certainly opened my eyes.”
The cabdriver, of course, didn’t leave the club empty-handed. Las Vegas cabdrivers have long received kickbacks for delivering customers to certain businesses. Such payments from strip clubs currently range “up to $120 per head,” according to Las Vegas attorney Al Marquis, who is representing several topless clubs that want the county to crack down on the payments.
No one knows the exact amount of the payments — strip clubs don’t exactly hand out 1099 tax forms every time a cabdriver pulls around back to take a kickback. But in a class-action lawsuit filed in June, it was alleged that some clubs pay as much as $100,000 a week to cabdrivers who bring in customers.
But that might be changing. (Put the emphasis on “might.”)
Clark County Commissioner Larry Brown is asking colleagues to discuss the payments at their meeting Tuesday. Brown said he agreed to raise the issue after being approached by various “stakeholders.”
“I don’t have a strong position on it,” he said. “I don’t even know the scope of the issue. It’s just an issue that has tentacles throughout the community.”
To be sure, a long line of politicians, club operators and government regulators have taken runs at ending the practice. Some say the first attempt was made in 1965, after some restaurants were found to be paying cabdrivers $2 a head to bring in customers.
“It’s been going on forever,” said Sheriff Doug Gillespie, who recalled Philips Supper House, which no longer exists but was known for paying a nominal finder’s fee to cabbies for dropping off customers.
County code banned the kickbacks until March 2006. That’s when Commissioners Rory Reid, Tom Collins, Bruce Woodbury and Yvonne Atkinson Gates voted to repeal part of the code banning businesses with liquor licenses from tipping or extending “any form of gratuity to a taxicab driver for the delivery of any passengers to the business location.”
Las Vegas has an ordinance outlawing the practice.
The county vote followed a tense legislative battle in 2005 over cabbie “bounties.” Then-Gov. Kenny Guinn promised to veto a bill that would have outlawed businesses from making payments to cabdrivers. The Legislature’s ban never materialized.
But it might be back.
Marquis represents the various parties, which he would not identify, who have brought the matter to Brown’s attention.
They argue that bounties are bad for Las Vegas. It puts customers in a pressurized situation; cab companies lose control of their drivers, who ignore female customers in favor of male customers. And now massage parlors are starting to pay cabbies for customers, too.
Marquis has worked both sides of the issue. When Philips Supper House was accused of paying $3 a head for customers, he represented the restaurant.
Of the County Commission’s decision four years ago to let the free market take care of the problem, Marquis said: “I don’t think they appreciated at the time the magnitude of the problem created by this practice.”
Cab companies hate the practice, said Gordon Walker, Nevada Taxicab administrator, because it causes drivers to focus almost exclusively on customers they think want to go to a strip club. “So it takes (the driver) out of the normal flow of things,” Walker said.
As a percentage of all the cab rides in Las Vegas, trips to clubs account for a small share, he said. “But it still takes away from providing better service to locals and the main tourist corridor. I think the fines should be very expensive — $10,000 for a first offense, $20,000 after that.”
Marquis has a proposed ordinance that would punish the clubs, not the drivers. It asks for initial fines of $1,000. Three violations in 12 months would result in the revocation of a topless club’s license.
Asked if the rising bounties were the reason behind this latest attempt at regulation, Marquis said that had nothing to do with it. “It’s just bad business all around,” he said.
Taxi union Chief Shop Steward Parker Moffitt of the Industrial Professional Employees Union disagreed. He said the club’s rising payouts are exactly why it has become an issue again.
“If they wouldn’t have started paying these huge amounts in the first place, it wouldn’t be where it is today, we wouldn’t have this issue,” said Moffitt, a cabdriver for Yellow-Checker-Star. “This was never an issue when the clubs were paying $5, $10 a person.”
Moffitt’s union of 1,400 is gearing up for a fight.
“We are working people, we make $20,000 to $30,000 a year, so if the clubs can afford to pay someone $70, $80 to $100 a person, how much money are they making off the customers in order to cover that?” he said. “This is never discussed. This should be talked about.”
Cabdrivers will show up at the commission meeting Tuesday, he predicted, because “taking our money away is not going to help anybody. How is this going to improve anything for anyone?”
Joe Schoenmann can be reached at 455-6175 or at joe.schoenmann@lasvegassun.com.
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The kickback at strip clubs doesn't stop at the Cabbie. Cabdrivers are also running their cab meters, without passengers, using their kickbacks (and tips) to line the coffers of their Owners preventing the honest cabdrivers from working a more profitable shift. This is why we lack many good cabdrivers. However cab company owners and managers are mandated to lecture their drivers against this practice, this is a 'silent code' that has continued and will continue to be practice.
Nice to see Commissioner Reid on the side of kickbacks and cash economy that produces no taxes.
For crying out loud, Doesn't the Commission have better things to do than to harass the cabbies and strip clubs over and over again. Businesses are having a hard enough time making money here in the valley these days. We the local public for the most part could care less about this issue. This country has got too much government on our backs right now LAY OFF !!!!
There is no way a Club can recoup the driver payouts from a customer...if they charge an admission of $30, then fine, that is what they should be giving the driver. The drivers divert to the Club that is paying the most, ignore other taxi needs from local citizens and visitors...this is an old problem, but the drivers 'extort' the Club's into paying...no payout and you will not get any customers. Other Cities have laws against anyone paying a driver other than the passenger...the reason for this is that it cannot be self-controlled. It will require the County and the City to mandate a law. The IRS wants their share too of this unreported income. The County Commission should be in this and not hide their heads in the sand.
With all the taxes Clark County is losing on this they could fix the Tram system.
Don't hotels work out deals with brokers on hotel rooms?
Don't headhunters get paid a fee for finding an employee for an employer?
Isn't it more or less a common practice to pay a fee to someone who brings you business or enhances your business?
I don't get it. Give the Cabbies a break. Looks like to me the underground economy is the only one that is halfway healthy anyway. I don't suggest screwing with that...
How about the County spending less time on trying to nail the cabbies and more time on preventing bid rigging as was the case recently with a certain paving contract.
If memory serves me right, there were certain County Commissioners that received bribes for issuing liquor licenses to certain businesses. Weren't their video tapes of sexual escapades in the "VIP Room"?,
Now call me stupid or whatever, but in my book there is a difference between an elected official, with whom the public trust is vested, that takes a bribe and a working man that is trying to feed his family and pay his mortgage thats getting a couple hundred a week from a strip joint.
Don't worry, he isn't saving it. Its probably turning over seven times in the local economy. See any benefit there?
This world has got too many people who want to tell the rest of the world how to live and have no empathy or understanding at all for the people whose lives they affect.
They have a notion of whats right and whats wrong for other people to do and do the same thing themselves but its called a finders fee or commission or bonus or something.
I say, "Give em a break, go find something else to mess with."
It will be hard to enforce a no "kickback" law.
The strip joints rip off customers but scream when the cabbies rip them off? This is Alien VS. Predator.
Comment removed by moderator. Comment contained name-calling.
steve, cabbies that run the meter to put their own money on it are simply making their shift average. they are simply pimping all night and dont wanna get canned. those folks are not the issue with the average. the ones that put their tips on the meter and work all night are the ones that are affecting the average. no company in the world will say that you cannot do this because the company profits on it.
The Clark County Commissioners have no right to be involved in this issue, period!
The Independent American candidate, for the office of Clark County Commission District F, says that this issue is not of the importance to be given to the Clark County Commissioners to be involved in.
If woman are being discriminated against, then that is an issue of which the Clark County Commission has no say over!
They have no right to dictate policies to private business, etc., here in Clark County.
Jeff DURBIN will be at the meeting today speaking for the rights of these cab drivers to earn what they can when they can!
They live on tips, per the majority of personnel here in Clark County/Las Vegas, if the business communities are slipping them tips for their dropping off clients, then it is up to the cab drivers theirselves to declare these tips.
This is not an issue at all that the Clark County Commissioners need to be involved in at all. It is a private enterprise issue and the government needs to step back!
Jeff DURBIN has said he would support the Cab Drivers in Las Vegas, as he had possessed a CDL virtually all of his life as well and had transported people via large buses and drove tractor trailers, part time to earn monies.
Therefore, he knows what it is like to drive to earn!
Just another "free market" scam.
Just like the free market 'housing' scams run in Clark County with 'government assistance' give-away plans tied in with corrupt Politicos makin' big dough off the 'assistance' of their 'pals'.
HEY COUNTY COMMISSION. HERE'S YOUR SOLUTION BECAUSE YOU ARE ALL SO SLOW YOU PROBABLY CAN'T DO THIS RIGHT:
ALL CABS TAKING JOHNS TO STRIP JOINTS HAVE TO HAVE A HUGE 'PINK LICENSE' ATTACHED TO THEIR CABS AND THE DRIVERS HAVE TO WEAR A 'PINK HAT' WITH THE LICENSE NUMBER ON IT.
ANY CAB GOING TO A STRIP JOINT HAS TO BE 'PINK LICENSED'.
FINES FOR PICKUP / DROP-OFF WITHOUT 'PINK LICENSES' START AT $20,000 AND GO UP FROM THERE.
THE CAB COMPANIES WILL BE CHARGED $1,000,000 FOR RUNNING 'PINK LICENSED' CABS.
So easy, even a caveman could do it.....
I understand what you are saying, but don't agree with you logic_should_rule. And I don't go to strip joints cause I am not interested in that entertainment at any price, let alone what they charge.
But you have a lot of people that pay too much for lots of stuff...
Hey, I have been known to bet a few dollars on the horses and play cards. Absolutely a poor decision from a financial point of view.
My point is... You can't legislate common sense and you can't outlaw stupidity. People need to set those bounds for themselves.
You see, I look at things from a very practical point of view; bail out banks, bail out insurers (AIG), bail out the auto industry (GM) then bail out some of the poor sons of guns that are victims of poor economy on an individual basis.
I don't like double standards. That is to say one for Wall Street,NYC and another for Eastern Ave, LV.
Seems like government has a tendency to sock it to the little guy and make exceptions for the big guy. That's all I am saying...
This is just basic commerce in action, People. Just because some hick from Illinois "couldn't believe it" when presented with incentive for a choice, exactly how does this become a legitimate cause for public concern?
Certainly I don't see anywhere in this article that he and his fellow passengers turned down the cash. And certainly I don't see anything here but government on its relentless quest to choke off our basic freedoms.
"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force." - Ayn Rand (1905-1982)
This problem is not going to be solved because the clubs tried to have a unwritten gentleman's agreement among themselves a few years ago to either end the practice or all pay the same low fee. The problem of course is when one club started secretly paying $5 more...the others lost business and had to match it or pay more. This again has led to escalating fees and put it back to where it is today.
Bottom line is the clubs need the cabs to deliver the customers...the real question is at what price?
If Gillespie wants to cut back on this type of corruption, why doesn't he do something about the Metro officers that get free and half price meals and beverages at various establishments around the valley. Their even going into NLV and Henderson to get their perks.
Taxation is theft, that's why there's an "underground" cash economy in virtually every thriving business/service sector in America.
There can never be social justice without the criminalization of taxation.
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These guys must have a lot of time on their hands.
Why are these clubs paying in cash? Shouldn't they pay in lapdances instead??
Neiman Once again your hypocrisy has manifested itself coupled with your stupidity. The right wingers theory on issues such as this is do not interfere with business practices. It is the right if these small businesses to compete in a free market as they see fit. I can just envision Bush and Cheney doing the exact same thing if they were the strip club owners or the elected officials. The exception would be they would demand their cut as well. Now go ride your skateboard and be quiet.
have the cabbies pay taxes on it and have the strip club list it as an expense. DONE.
Let's bring back slavery, or maybe at least indentured servitude, and let's start allowing people to sell their organs...bring on the Libertarian-Loony World. And what's wrong with Child-Labor? You can tell a kid to clean-up their room? Why can't you tell them to clean a motel room for 60 cents an hour? John Stossel and Vin yippee!!!
It sounds good for customers, but if you get a free cab ride, they charge admission. No cab, free admission. It washes.
I think that people, including myself, that get involved in these discussions have some sort of personality disorder. Some kind of need to voice their opinion and save the world or something.
Absolutely nothing is accomplished by it.
Therefore, I am resolved to quit wasting my time and confine my efforts to those things that really matter in life.
Wish me well friends, I am going to take the first step and try and go a week without further comment on any subject. You know, the first small step.
Au revoir!
Maybe I'm being naive, but I don't understand how cabbies can "ignore" customers who don't want to go to a strip club. In my experience, when you leave a hotel, the cabs are lined up and they take whoever is next in line. In order. They don't pick and choose their customers. Admittedly, I don't know much about the cab business, but I think trying to regulate this practice is a waste of time. I have a friend who drives a cab, and she gets maybe one or two kickbacks a week - she's hardly getting rich off the strip clubs. And she isn't able to decide not to transport customers if they don't want to go where she wants to take them.
mred.....a lot of restaurants and fast food outlets offer discounted meals and/or free beverages to the police for one reason....it keeps the police in there and the robberies elsewhere. It's actually a smart business practice that helps keep the employees and customers safe.
The site staff removed my post. Looks like I told the truth
Hey sun....don't forget the corrupt hotel diverting doormen and limos that get kickbacks too. Its not just cabbies getting it. Lvsun needs to report the truth not just bias against local cabbies
That idea of a pink permit is stupid.
Sigtwenty, is exactly right.
This is Adam Smith's invisible hand (albeit with a greased twenty hidden from sight) in action.
Let this be and worry about more pressing issues.
Don't we have a economic meltdown in progress here...Let's talk about kick backs by other biz's here like Las Vegas Paving..etc..
The Taxi Authority should hire sigtwenty, he knows what he's talking about when it comes to the transportation industry. The biggest problem with the T.A. is they won't listen to what drivers have to say about the profession they have chosen. By far limo drivers, and doormen are the biggest problem of diverting. I think sigtwenty would be a great spokesman for all Clark County cab drivers.
Cab Company and Limo Company Motto. STEAL ALL YOU CAN, SPLIT IT WITH ME, IF YOU GET CAUGHT YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN.
"If Gillespie wants to cut back on this type of corruption..."
mred -- exactly how is this "corruption"?
Leave it to the politicians to screw it up for everyone. Must not be getting their portion of the vig. Much to do about nothing,...leave it alone
ONE OF TWO:
this has nothing to do with gillespie and his band of power trip geeks. this is a state/town/county that simply hates cab drivers for some unknown reason.
some people have no choice but to drive a cab in this town..its a quick easy no brainer job concept and fast money, and they will hire just about anyone that can pass a hair and/or urine test. you people have no clue the stress they are truly under. getting 50% of the meter really is closer to about 30% once you pay for your own gas, and taxes. its a thankless job, filled with thankless dirtbag people for 60+hours a week. some companies make you work 6 and 7 day weeks. some companies you have to be a theif just to get a good cab.
while this is kinda off topic, bottom line is that if a cabbie is lucky enough to not have a dirtbag doorman divert 3 guys going to the hootie bar so he can make 150 bucks, it does not happen often enough for one driver.
you wanna know how this towns eyes look down on cab drivers? heres a clue
1. TA. the taxi authority keeps on adding cabs to the street digging into drivers incomes. the TA has their own self funded police department that, while the officers are very respectable compared to metro's, they are there to enforce the bombardment of laws drivers have to follow. LIMOS do not have such enforcement over them, well they do, but they dont really exist. laws like no picking up flags costs drivers lots of money is just one example.
2. METRO: metro basically cannot stand cab drivers. they literally would give their own mother a ticket if she was a cabbie. whatever metros issue with cabbies is i dont know, but its really really really a hinderance to the job. metro should not even be remotely involved with cab drivers except for traffic infractions.
3. DOORMEN: doormen are corrupt in most resorts. the wynn/encore is an exception a majority of the time as diversion from those places is almost nothing if any. it is against their policy. if there are 4 guys going to the rhino next in line, the next cab in line gets the ride.
TWO OF TWO: places like caesers, bellagio, mirage, are horrible for this. sands properties are literally the worst.
4. HOTEL STAFF: other than doormen, you have valet and security to deal with. the sands property has absolutely, to no end, not one ounce of respect for CAB drivers at all. i have seen this first hand. i literally had to talk my fiancee out of having a wedding at the venetian because i refuse to give a f*****g dime to any sands property for the blatent disrespect i have gotten as a driver and as a guest. many other hotels have the same issues, just not to the same extreme of a degree that the sands properties take it to. oh yea, and the wonderful convention center staff...ill give a big EFF you to you folks too and your attitudes.
5 AIRPORT STAFF: see hotel staff above for the general abuse concept. those brown shirts that work at the port...with the exception of a handful of them they all need to be fired, especially the bike staff. id love to run their foot over so they cant ride their damn bike anymore. talk about metros attitude issues, bike patrol rentacops make them look like saints.
6 CAB COMPANIES: they expect you to perform to a certain average. while this in itself is really the only way to grade your performance it works well except for when you have drivers that sit at the airport all day doing rides that are usually 16 bucks for 30 bucks a pop by ripping people off. thats called inflating the average. so when you come back having a good day at say 260 on revenue, some jackhead is coming back with 430. so now your job is on the line because some theif wants to raise the average.
7 LONG HOURS: yea, 60+ hours a week for min wage is tiring, draining and simply stupid. while it may beat unemployment, its a life draining job.
most people truly do not know the job, or the industry in itself.
like someone above said, the real estate industry is based on referrals. hell, as a direct TV customer i get 100 buck referrals and get free service for 12 months if i get one person per month to sign up and install!!!!
Al marquis IS just a plain dope. his tv commercials were breaking the law because his decoys were breaking the law hailing a vehicle for hire. he also only singled out cabs and not the limos that stage at walgreens, CVS, fat burger, and other places that they are not supposed to be because they have no PRE-ARRAINGED RIDE WAITING FOR THEM!.
can i run the TA? totally. i can do a better job because ive done the job. i was on TV last year during CES because the extra cabs were causing nothing more than a traffic jam. i dare the TA to hire me as the big head honcho in charge to run things. i challenge the LV sun to actually do more research before writing an article that does not expose the true problem and that does not single out one group of people that collect or are involved.
---vivavegas, the doorman picks and chooses the customer, not the driver.
Maaaaan, So a cabbie gets a kickback for getting the customer to the right strip joint,who cares? The cops get comps at food places all day long, is Gillespie gonna stop that? Free coffee,free donuts, free Buffalo Wild Wings, who cares ? everybody just mind ya own beezwax. This IS Vegas and this has happened for years and it will never stop. The person that tries to tackle this is one brave soul and will probably end up on a milk carton.
Are the ones that are "concerned" about this the ones that are not making anything off of it?
I would say so castle...They dont have any kickback from the kickback lining their pockets so why not ruin it for everybody....Stupid people do stupid things..,..
Sigtwenty, I would like to thank you for the most truthful writing I have ever seen posted. Everything you say is the truth, I know I drove for 3 years. I was a union driver, what ever that is worth. They did nothing to improve work conditions at all. I hope someone will pay attention to what you have to say, and put you to work in a position that could change the problems that have been going on for so long. Thanks again, and good luck.
Bring back the stripper mobile.
Corruption: People, and businesses that can offer free and discounted meals to cops get better police protection than those who can't offer such perks to law enforcement.
They are using my tax money to drive to places for free meals to provide better protection to certain businesses. I guess all businesses should put out a basket of apples, so the cops can come by and take a free one, just like in the good old days?
Do these cops pay income taxes on their free meals???
I'm going to begin compiling a list of businesses that are buying police protection with free meals and put it up on the net.
So long as the customer is willing to go, this isn't much of an issue and I would think the County would have more important things to do (if not, we need to pay them less).
The free market will address a shortage of cabs, if one develops, and "control" of the cabbies by their employer isn't a County problem.
Just another instance of the County making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Speaking of corruption, What happened to the foreign corrupt practices act prossection involving the gun manufacturers?
How about reviewing casino kickbacks to our politicians? Or how about shady land deals with Scary Reid?
thanks fixinron...
sad thing is, someone that simply was a grunt driver could see all the faults. and my few random points above were at best scratching the surface.
if i can pick up on this from what i see and read in less than a year, why cant the state agencies that run these scumballs see the problems.
too bad there are too many forginers that dont understand things as well as americans do when it comes to the labor force and will not unite properly to form a strike. i say strike the airport for a half a day at least.
Mr ed you can start your list with Buffalo Wild Wings, and all 7-11s, just about any conveinence store for that matter. I was wearing a fire dept hat and shirt on one occasion ,wont say which one, but I didnt pay for anything at a certain conveinance store until I told the clerk I wasn't a fireman. There are comps all over this valley for cops and fireman so just leave the cabbies alone.
If the restaurants and bars I choose to eat at are providing free meals to LVMPD I think that's great. It helps to keep would-be robbers away from the place.
As for cabbies getting kickbacks. Good luck stopping that.
who cares the whole city operates on tips...
someone has to stop the real thug in town...Harrah's!!!
Harrah's Cheats!!!
Harrah's owns D.A. Bernie Zadrowski (aka collection agent with a gun-n-badge) & the Gaming Control Board...
hope somebody can break up this monopoly so that individual patron's rights are protected...
buyer beware: harrah's will ruin your life suck you dry and throw you in jail...stay away from caesars palace