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Friday, Feb. 5, 2010 | 2 a.m.
Walt Rulffes
Sun Archives
Teachers, long a popular and protected political constituency, face increasing pressure to accept pay cuts as lawmakers try to decide how to trim $881 million from the state’s budget.
Democratic lawmakers, a longtime ally of the teachers union, and school administrators are urging educators to renegotiate their contracts to avoid layoffs and cuts in the classroom.
Clark County Superintendent Walt Rulffes told the Interim Finance Committee on Thursday that he’s trying to minimize the effect on students and prevent layoffs. To do that, he said, “involves a small sacrifice by everyone.”
Absent that, achieving the required $150 million savings would involve laying off more than 2,300 teachers.
Legislators also heard from a defiant president of the Nevada State Education Association, who said teachers are not willing to reduce their salaries. Lynn Warne, association president, told legislators to show “leadership and courage” and look at raising taxes.
“The choices seem clear and stark,” she said. “You can lay off teachers, shorten the school year or raise revenue.”
It was a speech that caused legislators to bristle, some publicly and some privately.
“I think we all need to demonstrate leadership, and that’s all I’m going to say,” said Assemblywoman Debbie Smith, D-Sparks. “I would say that everything has to be on the table.”
Polls have shown teachers are held in high esteem by the public. Their union contributes to Democratic political action committees and the campaigns of politicians from both parties, but in many respects their power comes from their standing as professionals who care about children’s education and not the bottom line.
It has paid dividends. Despite the state’s financial troubles, last session K-12 saw an increase in general fund money while the rest of state government was cut.
However, teachers are being put in a difficult position. To maintain their reputation as advocates for education, some state leaders argue teachers need to take pay cuts.
“All of the employee groups, in fairness, should have an equal sacrifice,” said Senate Majority Leader Steven Horsford, D-Las Vegas. “Without wage reductions or other cuts outside the classroom, we would have to lay off 2,300 teachers in Clark County. We have to do better than that.”
Steven Horsford
Teacher advocates argue that educators are underpaid.
How well Nevada teachers are compensated depends on how you look at the numbers. A recent survey by the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce found Nevada teachers in 2008 made 95 percent of the national average. The same survey found that Nevada’s teachers were the 18th best paid in the country, up from 23rd in 2006.
Per-pupil funding in Nevada ranks 49th or 50th.
Certainly, teachers have so far been spared the pain felt by other public employees.
The Legislature last session ordered all state employees to take 4.6 percent pay cuts through once-a-month furlough days. Although lawmakers cut funding for the university and school districts by 4.6 percent, employees who work under union contracts could not be forced to take furloughs. Instead, the funding came from other parts of school districts’ budgets.
This time, any cut to teacher pay depends largely on whether unions agree to renegotiate contracts. Shortening the school year would save the state about $13 million a day. But because a shorter school year would mean lower salaries for teachers, those savings could only be achieved if teachers agreed to them.
Rulffes told legislators he is close to entering arbitration with the teachers union, which has so far refused pay concessions.
Clark County’s school contract has a provision that allows negotiations to be reopened if there is additional tax revenue. There is no similar provision if revenue comes in below expectations.
Senate Minority Leader Bill Raggio, R-Reno, broached temporarily suspending collective bargaining, which would be required to nullify contracts and cut teacher pay without the union’s agreement.
Bill Raggio
“I guess I’m going to be the messenger to be shot,” he said after raising the politically sensitive issue.
Although the teachers union has succeeded in creating a favorable public image, a union’s job is also to represent the interests of its members.
Warne said making the decision on budget cuts a choice between laying off classroom teachers and cutting pay is a false dichotomy. School districts could use money earmarked for new buildings for operating expenses instead, she said.
“There are districts sitting on money available for classrooms,” she said. “I think you’ll find the public discontent is with the district and central office, and the way they managed money.”
Some legislative leaders, meanwhile, are privately saying that school districts might have to do both — cut salaries and sacrifice some capital funding.
All of these teachers who think that they are better then everybody else has gotten old. It's time they had their wages cut like everybody else and if they don't like it they can quit.
Now Wait a minute here,, hold on.. I am not a big supporter of unions, but I have to say that I have to agree with the teachers on this. They have the option to go some place else, but they stay here. The amount of money that they receive is a whole lot less that the teachers in almost all of the school districts ANYWHERE in the USA. They have made a sacrefice, or choice to stay here , Oh they will be leaving simply because they will get tired of being known as one of the nations worst ! The worst in pay, worst in a lot of working conditions ect. there is no reason in the world why they should have to go to a 3rd world country to recruit teachers. Just pay the ladies and gentlemen of the school district what they are worth . Sounds simple , but as we are seeing ( and going to see in the near future) YOU REALY DO GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR ! leave the money that they get alone please PLEASE !
They can leave if they want but the same thing is going on in all of the other states. Its time the teachers feel the same pain as everyone else. They can take a cut or face reduction in force like all other departments.
What is wrong with you people?
We only really need to educate girls to the fourth grade and boys to eighth.
Anything more than about 40 days in the school year is grossly extravagant.
Have the Govenor issue an Executive Order to cancel fire codes and we can put 90 kids in a classroom.
Why have trained teachers with degrees when we can hire unemployed sheetrockers at $8.00 an hour?
Who cares if Nevada is dead last in the nation for high school graduates and college graduates, and the US is repidly falling behind the world in science, technology, and engineering?
As long as Nevada has an adequate supply of busboys and "escorts" why are we worried?
Why are people worried about a adequate (never mind about excellent) education for their children and grandchildren?
Once you are dead last in the nation for state contributions and dead last in ratings for schools does it matter anymore?
Think of all the money Nevada can save by just cancelling the rest of the school year and mailing out "diplomas." The resulting work force will really draw new businesses and industries to Nevada.
Hey its only fair to spread the pain to level the playing field.
No salary is guaranteed. Ask anyone in a sales or service industry. We work on a contract basis, therefore if someone does not renew a contract, our income goes does. Two years ago when the recession first hit, we lost 30% of our business in one day. We panicked at first, but turned things around and now we are busier than ever. And all of that time, we were just grateful that we had SOME income coming in.
Hey, on this round of budget cuts, I say go after the educators. But in the round of budget cuts after that, you don't get to make them your scapegoats again. They will have "shared your pain." And since your "leaders" are incapable of finding new ways to raise revenues, there will be budget cuts yet again. But you don't get to go after educators again at that point because - by your own stated principles here - they will have already done their bit for king and country. So, out of curiosity, who will be the next round of scapegoats after this?
Sure, I can afford a pay cut; I just have to walk away from my mortgage. If my pay is cut, I think that would make the most sense.
And if I walk from my home, then I will try to walk a lot farther than a different neighborhood - like a different state.
The legislators didn't want to raise teacher salaries when the economy was booming, but now it's crying for teachers to share in the bust.
YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.
I'd feel more dignity being unemployed than I do as a teacher here.
nez212 and mycroft6, where were you when teachers were not sharing the boom? were you demanding teacher raises while other state employees were getting them, saying it's not fair for everybody but teachers to get raises? i expect you to be the first to demand big raises for teachers when the economy becomes healthy again.
steven horsford should have his family income cut to a teacher salary. he's the one who said that the students are smart enough, but the schools are failing them. he doesn't respect teachers, and he apparently doesn't like the idea of personal responsibility for students.
teachers, stand up and fight. let the firefighters take a pay cut. let the school police take a pay cut. look at the suggestions from a teacher in the r-j today. stop buying crap that classrooms don't need, like interactive white boards and classroom sound systems.
ccea, call for action - boycott, protests, etc. it's time for some civil disobedience. teachers have been crapped on too long already! stop taking it!
i read a couple of articles this past week saying that nevada has (or had) among the highest-paid public employees in the nation - EXCEPT FOR TEACHERS.
If any of you wants to take my 50-60 hour per week job during the school months, with its high stress, dilapidated, unhealthy school building, impossible demands, and requirements for personally-funded continuing education, for the whopping salary of less than fifty thousand a year, feel free - if you can cut it, which most of you couldn't and wouldn't.
By the way, I've seen teacher quality deteriorate since I've been here, with some better teachers leaving and some worse teachers taking their place. You get what you pay for.
The truth of the matter is that before you start cutting into per-pupil spending and teacher's salaries, you are supposed to cut the FAT. That means all the "consultants" and "specialists" go first, then you minimize supervisors, then you cut all your "special" projects. Cutting teacher's salaries just because some other industries are suffering is just plain ignorant. Teachers spend a fortune getting certified, out of their pockets, and settle for below industry level salaries campared with others who hold GRADUATE DEGREES, in exchange for job security. You can't be a good teacher if you are an at will employee worrying about butt kissing your boss instead of educating children.
Welcome to the rest of the world TEACHERS.
My my, Nevada is the worst state in the Nation for leadership and education. Firefighters and Police are making massive amounts of money from overtime. Firefighters are ave. 200k a year thanks to Reid.. Police are making overtime. No one is talking about cutting their pay. Pick on the teacher. If I did not have a good teacher I would not have become a revolutionary and gave you all your freedom. Leave the teacher alone. If anything get rid of some admin and all the nose wipers, butt wipers, sweat wipers that are on Sahara in the 16 million dollar CCSD palace that have nothing to do with the kids.
Good post Teacher. Maybe teachers should not vote for their endorsed candidates like rory reid. He created the fire fighter mess now he wants to fix it because he's running for governor. He's not doing anything for you teachers now and he will not do anything later either. Time for you teachers to wake up and not vote the party system anymore. They have failed you. Year after year your job gets more difficult and your pay remains the same or less or goes up a little while gas, milk and other prices go way up. Take a stand you teachers and tell the worthless leadership like horsford and others that you have had enough of this garbage they have been putting you through.
This city deserves what it gets.
rejco, you nut job.
I can't wait for Patrick Gibbons to get rolling around in the muck of his "think tank" this morning @NPRI, to share his words of wisdom; re; Teacher-Bashing! Pat's The Wizard of Oz, working away behind the curtain...
Serpent, what a smart and kind human...er, snake you are.
Nez... "spread the pain"? "level the playing field"? HUH? You and DesertFlame need to understand something; The Teachers have a CONTRACT with the people of the state.
Certainly you Right-Wingers don't advocate not paying your bills? Asking for a bailout? Looking for a handout?
That doesn't sound like the raving right-wingers at all!
YOU are in private business. Private industry involves risk/reward. Fluctuations in business. If your sales go UP 30 percent, will you be calling teachers to pass around your extra money?
I didn't think so.
I am teacher, nobody asked me. The title should read, Teacher's union resists increasing pressure........
What bothers me is the chickensh$% ccsd officials who fail to look into real places to cut fat. Saying, oh everyone take a 4 percent pay cut is so easy, when this should be a time to really change some of the problems ccsd has.
Raise taxes on people who are making less so teachers don't have to take a pay cut. Makes perfect sense if you are part of the protected public employee class.
The three biggest whiners about wages are the firefighters the police and the teachers. All union.
Everyone needs to chip in.
It's simple, take the pay cuts or the layoff, just like the rest of us! Why all this discussion, we know what must happen. Maybe this time the Nevada State Leglislature will make the hard decisions, the cuts and save the state.
Teachers, please let the rest of us know what you think should be cut. Above I saw consultants, specialist, and special projects. What about the layers of management, the red tape of reporting? What about year round vs nine month?
As an outsider to the system I'm wondering if your pay is ranked 18th how are you underpaid?
Again, as an outsider, I'm wondering why we are not using capital funding already in place to shore up this system. With student numbers declining it would make sense that we do not need to build more schools.
Whizard says...
"AND THEY DON'T HAVE PERVUE OVER HOW MUCH MONEY WE WANT TO PAY THEM FOR THEIR DISTINCT PRIVILEDGE OF WORKING FOR US.
IT'S A PRIVILEDGE TO WORK FOR US. GET IT?
NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND........"
HA! what a KNEE-SLAPPER, WHIZ!
that is the most clueless post of the new millennium!
Your ignorance is AWSOMELY, SUPREMELY BLISSFUL!
Croft you can wine and cry all you want to! Teachers are taking a stand and will not get a pay cut! Start laying off. Teachers make half the salary as the fire fighters and Officers that Croft is cyring like a 5 year old red headed step child about.
The state & districts need to take every dollar that goes into supporting K-12 education, divide it up per registered student (SSN required) with more going to verified special needs students, and hand it out as vouchers good at any public, charter or private school that meets accreditation standards. Competition is the only way reform will happen, and without reforming the system there will be no improvements in performance. While many individual teachers are excellent and dedicated, the current system is not and it never will be.
And just so no one feels left out, all government employees should take a 5% pay cut. This includes firefighters, police, the military, and any other Federal, State, County or Municipal employee. Oh, and we need to look at moving Social Security & Medicare to a needs based approach. And implement a 10% administrative support budget cut in Congress, the Legislature, the Prez, and the Gov. Did I leave anyone out?
My issue is that while teacher salaries in Nevada are somewhere in the neighborhood of $9,000 UNDER the national average, the total STATE EMPLOYEES average salary is somewhere in the neighborhood of $6,000 OVER the national average. Where are all of these high-paid state employees and officials? Teacher represent a huge portion of state employees, yet there is that much discrepancy in pay? Like someone else already pointed out, teachers have already chipped in their bit for the budget. Anyone remember back in the 90's when the economy was great and salaries were going up for everyone? Well, that's when teachers were still not getting a "cost of living" increase that was being given out to all other state employees. Now, because we have a union that actually protected us and stood up for us (finally), we're supposed to get punished?
Has anyone else noticed that Walt Rulffes is talking about 2,300 teachers laid off, but no mention whatsoever of how many ADMINISTRATORS will be laid off. That's where the cuts need to start, not with the teachers.
I don't blame teachers for not wanting to take the hit when the school district leadership is clearly not serious about cutting non-essentials first.
There's going to be some surgery to teachers' pay here.
Whether it's elective or emergency is totally up to them.
The halcyon days are over for good until this state relaizes it needs a lottery to survive.
2,000 teachers won't have to be cut as I testified in the afternoon (at the same meeting). Clark County has 1 staff member for every 8 students and only 1 out of every 3 employees in CCSD is a classroom teacher.
Claiming they will have to cut 2,000 teachers is nothing more than a scare tactic. If the payroll has to be reduced there are ways of doing it without affecting the service providers of education.
One solution is to outsource central offices like facilities, food services and or transportation. About 45% of the school districts in Michigan already do this and they have saved millions of dollars as a result
http://npri.org/publications/facilitatin...
Why isn't anyone mentioning the memo that the district sent out that notified teaches that there was going to be layoffs and classroom reassignments in March??
Why is it always the teacher looked at first when layoffs or salary reduction are talked about. Grant it I am sure that they are willing to do what is necessary to not have layoffs (rolling furloughs or 4% pay reduction)
There is plenty of excess in the school district admin. Admin staff reduction needs to happen first.
Why is there 2 seperate deparments that does fingerprinting for full time and sub. teaching? Couldn't these be combined. why is there 2 seperate dept. for full timne and sub. teaching? What other admin. waste is the district hiding?
The district or the union does not consult the teachers on what they think should be cut, they are the one that really see the waste and where fat could be trimmed
It's funny you don't see Ruffles or any other +100k administrator taking a reduction in pay.
Everyone seems to forget that the first and formost thing that we most protect is the level of service to the students.
DON'T LAY OFF THE TEACHERS!! The only people that its going to hurt is the kids in the long run.
2300 teachers laid off = every serious parent heading for points unknown.
You anti-teacher types really have to know that your utopia of vouchers will ultimately wind up primarily hiring the same people who are teachers now. It also will take half a generation to implement even if it happened, if you want to do it right.
I really wish you people could get your head out of the clouds and offer to do your share. I could see the teachers doing a 3% reduction coupled with other revenue enhancers. Instead you walk lockstep with the Worst Governor in the History Of The United States and try to lay it on the teachers.
I am willing to pay a penny or two more a gallon of gas, a dime more on a 12 pack of beer or soda. I also think we should dismiss the governors staff and get him a section 8 apartment, maybe coming out of his cave will show him how the folks really live.
What are you willing to contribute?
We have good teachers and bad teachers,I hope they keep the good ones and let the bad ones go.It should not be how long they have been a teacher(time) it is how the test scores are in the class room.I feel that the students are not getting a good education. We pay more taxes,so I expect better teachers.
The education in Vegas is subpar. I am not sure why, but productivity and results from current teachers is not up to anybody's standards.
Whoever By Teacher is, you are not wanted here as a teacher. Walk away from your mortgage, the real estate market will correct itself naturally. You are not being paid because your work as a whole is down right negligent. When you produce a product that makes this community look bad year after year we are not going to run to your financial aid for the great job you are doing. Pack your bags and don't let the slot handle hit you in the .... back on the way out. People are and have lost jobs that had contracts, no contracts, union work, free lancers, etc. No reason whatsoever to keep a fully functioning catastrophe such as our education system in place at its current level.
Teacherhusband,
When faced with economic reality and budget cuts agency heads often report that any budget cut would result in them terminating whatever might be the most popular service they provide.
So instead of cutting jobs mowing lawns, they cut teachers.
The strategy is to tick off as many constituents (direct beneficiaries or just concerned citizens) into getting them to rally behind the agency to protect it from budget cuts.
One day the media will pick up on this and start asking elected officials and agency heads the hard questions.
Jeff,
If you really cared you'd be willing to pay more than just a few extra cents.
Frankly, no one should be willing to pay more for the low quality service we've already recieved - and in the fat booming times, no less.
Education needs fundamental reform, not more money.
Many of us have already taken cuts and those whining about getting cut (less) need to tighten your belts and help the whole community out. Everyone should help out in some way from the high up to the down low.
Paying $100,000 for a Chevy Aveo won't make it run the quarter mile in 10 seconds. You just have a $100,000 Chevy Aveo and wasted $90,000.
Paying teachers more money won't make them better teachers, and it won't attract better quality teachers says Ballou and Podgursky authors of "Teacher Pay and Teacher Quality" (it is a massive econometric study of teacher pay and teacher quality)
They found that increasing teacher pay only meant that school districts paid more money to recruit the same pool of applicants.
If you want better teachers, or to make existing teachers better, we need fundamental reforms, like open enrollment, school level empowerment (including charter schools), eliminating state level and district level mandates to let teachers manage their own classrooms without micromanagement from above. We will need value-added assessment and alternative teacher certification programs. And frankly, parental choice through vouchers or tax credits must eventually be apart of public education.
I am a teacher. When the cost of living in this city skyrocketed and the economy was booming, my salary barely increased at all to match what was going on in the private sector. In fact it increased about 2% each year to cover the cost of living. Which was nothing compared to how fast the cost of living was rising. I didn't complain, I understood that a public sector job's salary would never be tied to how the economy is doing. Just like my pay did not rise substantially when the economy was thriving, it should not decrease now that the economy is shrinking.
If cuts are to be made in the school district, legislators should look no further than the massive amount of money being sent to the huge bureaucratic mess that is the district offices. Enough money is wasted there to save the entire budget. Don't punish the classroom teachers who are already overworked and underpaid. Make the cuts at the absurdly large district office. This is the perfect chance to reform what has become the worst part of the Clark County School District. I have been teaching for over 10 years in the district, and I know of no teacher who has benefitted substantially from that bureaucratic mess . . .
Max,
You got a cost of living increase and a step increase as a teacher unless you maxed out at 14 years or have not received extra degrees.
But yes, only 1 out of every 3 staff at CCSD is an actually classroom teacher. So if layoffs are necessary they can cut elsewhere.
To all teachers,
Where to start, the problem leads back to reality, government, and unions. What teacher that knew they were going into college so the could teach said, "I am going to make a lot of money"? The money is not good for years because of unions. Shake off the shackles so performers are rewarded. Additionally, you still have weeks of vacation in that year of pay. Obviously it is a little nicer for 9mon school teachers. Nevada is packed full of irresponsible politicians that have made concessions for unions and the budget is know super inflated and since the other unions pay more to politicians, teachers will feel the pain first. Back to unions, what company thrives because of union activity? I hate that teachers don't understand this because they teach my kids, but unions kill everything they touch. Lets not forget that the government pays it's employees 30% more than its private sector equivalent and they can't figure out why the state is tanking.
It's no wonder it is so hard to be a teacher, you have unrealistic expectations, unions, and government.
War on the private sector has its consequences.
Patrick R. Gibbons, NPRI:
(via live feed from deep within the bowels of his "think tank". How DO they get a signal down there?)
Privatization... It will cure all ills.
Vouchers... Ditto.
Teachers... Money won't work. Let them eat cake.
Government... Evil.
Nothing works without a profit motive.
In summation, the libertarian folks @ NPRI's "think tank" are determined to influence how you spend your money and who you elect to office.
And they do this because....
Whiz...
Try making sense.
i suppose they won't consider cutting those firemen's wages who make $ 200k a year for sitting around the firehouse all day doing nothing. their union's too strong...and they all have to make their payments for those 2 ton trucks that they drive to the market to pick up their afternoon new york steak dinners at our expense. ha,ha,ha.
the WHIZ says "ITS A PRIVELEGE TO WORK FOR ME! AN HONOR!!!
I OWN YOU! I WILL TELL YOU WHAT YOU MAKE, AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!"
HA HA HA HA HA! Stop, Mr. Whizard... PLEASE, MASTER! You are killin' me here! Honest to God!
HEY, when a cop pulls you over, Mr. Whizard, PLEASE, tell him YOU OWN HIM! IT'S HIS/HER PRIVELEDGE, GRANTED BY THE WHIZARD HIMSELF, TO WORK FOR THE CITY/COUNTY/STATE! YOU PAY HIS SALARY, RIGHT? tell him to take a HIKE!
ha ha ha! Ho, ho ho! The Whiz! Is he a comic or what?
The article states: "Certainly, teachers have so far been spared the pain felt by other public employees."
This is inaccurate on two levels. 1. Class sizes went up. More students = more work. 2. Not all public employees have felt the pain. The same Chamber of Commerce study cited showed that of the 30 or so public employee categories in the state, only 4 were below the national average. Two of those were teachers and post-secondary instructors. They have already have done their part.
Who topped the list? Firefighters. They make on average of 50% more than the national average. What 'pain' have they felt?
Why do you need education when you have Fox News?
Dear everyone,
There is a general vibe that "teachers, too, should feel the pain" or "it's their turn to feel it."
Really?
You don't think they've ever felt the pain of low salaries? I know a teacher with 2 kids and a wife who stays home to raise them. He loves the choices he made, but he qualifies for limited welfare benefits. He shouldn't have to qualify for any.
And for many of you, I would like to point out that just because someone is Mexican doesn't mean they're illegal anymore than because you're white that you own slaves.
I am absolutely certain that those who call for teachers to have salary cuts have never once serviced an average of 30 children in a teaching atmosphere that dictates what must be taught. I challenge anyone who has to say, from an objective perspective, that teachers deserve less.
Teachers do good and they deserve more -- more money, more support, and more community alliances that see the great good they do.
Teachers, I wish you well!
I say chop the higher pay people, they are so quick to chop the little guy. I have yet to hear or see an elected official reduce his or her pay in light of this situation. People are getting pissed off because of this. Enough, and get rid of these unions all they are doing is proventing the enevitable. We have to cut pay, I dont want to hear about thier damn contracts, I would think they would be null and void in light of this economy. Lets get back to basics...
Just to be fair, I believe Rulffes took a 10% pay cut back in October just to show he's willing to do his part.
Frankly, I want to see some talk about how many administrators are going to be cut, not teachers. That's when I'll know that Rulffes is serious about cutting real waste and bettering this school district.
Those of you saying that everyone needs to sacrifice during this difficult time are absolutely correct, and the only way to insure this is to institute an income tax. Yes, many in the private sector have taken paycuts, but not EVERYONE in the private sector has done so. I know many private sector workers who have actually gotten salary increases in the past couple years. So, the only way to make those people sacrifice is to tax them.
The solution is as simple as allowing the public an individual choice to fund such services.
Forcing the public to fund anything is never an efficient or morally justified approach.
: {
School Administrators should take the hit, not teachers!
How do we make private sector employees who have not suffered a pay cut share in the sacrifice that many others have made? I say we institute an income tax. What other options are there?
Like any profession, there are good and bad teachers. The bad teachers need to go. The way to get rid of bad teachers is with competition. Teaching needs to be PROFESSION. Salaries should be doubled over the next 10 years. It's an extremely stressful job and should be compensated appropriately. Bad teachers need to go. Good teachers need to be attracted and retained. With increased competition for the jobs, school districts can afford to fire bad teachers.
School administration tends to be dreadful. Teachers should be appointed and take 1-year shifts acting as administrators. This will permit the county to cut the top of the pay pyramid right off. We absolutely have to make this investment in education and cannot afford to wait around for the feds to do it for us.
This needs to be combined with tracking of students. After fourth grade, the worst students need to start training for vocational jobs. Classes are stuffed with underperformers that force teachers to cater to the lowest common denominator.
Solutions:
1. Increase the mining tax from the current 0.5%. Nevada families currently pay 7.25% in sales tax. Its time for mining, which has paid 0.5% tax FOR DECADES, to step up and pay their fair share.
2. Out of state corporate box stores like Wal-Mart pay, by ratio, less in tax than small businesses in Nevada. Its time for Wal-MArt to estep up and pay their fair share.
3. There is 4 billion dollars in construction funds that is sitting around. The ENTIRE shortfall is 881 million. See the easy solution here?
Here are three good ideas. Use one or some and STOP TAKING MORE MONEY FROM NEVADA FAMILIES THROUGH SALARY REDUCTIONS.
Solution
Let's declare the state an official muslim country so we only allow boys to attend school.
This should reduce schooling expenses by 50%!
At this point, it's clear that everyone is going to have to make a sacrifice to ensure that our schools continue to stay open and educate our kids. We can't operate from intractable positions. It only serves to make this process more painful than it's already going to be and in the end the kids will suffer the most.
GMAG,
Vouchers and tax-credits should be one of many reforms we try.
Here is a list of choice programs across the nation: http://www.edchoice.org/schoolchoice/Sho...
Here is a FAQ on school choice: http://www.edchoice.org/newsroom/ShowFaq...
Here is some info on the myths: http://www.edchoice.org/schoolchoice/myt...
There is no silver bullet to improve education. This is just one of many things we should try.
Do you have any suggestions or is it just personal attacks and demanding that we spend more money on a system that results in less than half of low-income, African American, and Hispanic students reading at grade level by the 4th grade?
CJJames,
You share a flawed point of view that will only punish consumers. Government needs to slash unions and the budget and instead of jacking up taxes, lower them on Nevadans so we can spend the money we work and earned.
Sales tax is 8.1% in Nevada.
Government workers and their stupid ideas are killing Nevada, the problem is that when they want more money, they just take it.
"Vouchers and tax-credits should be one of many reforms we try."
Again, you show me a charter school that will set up in towns like Yerington, Silver Springs, Tonopah and Hawthorne (where populations are small and sparse).
As to privatization, what works in Michigan may not work here (especially in terms of transportation). Michigan counties are smaller and more densely populated, while outside of Carson City, Washoe County and Clark County we're larger and more widely distributed. You're telling me a private company could do transportation in Douglas County (which runs roughly 35-40 miles from the most southern point to the most northern) for less cost than the School District?
gmag,a previous poster is correct that your job is a privilege. your sarcasm is sad that you think that you are entitled. you aren't helping your case buddy.
Douglas,
Patrick did mention there was not a silver bullet but the idea is nice and practical. Small towns may not have a Wells Fargo or a Walmart either but in time they might.
You have to start from somewhere.
I haven't looked into the voucher program but the basic idea sounds nice and I welcome a choice.
"Patrick did mention there was not a silver bullet but the idea is nice and practical. Small towns may not have a Wells Fargo or a Walmart either but in time they might."
Let me take a guess here...you've never actually been to Yerington or Hawthorne (or Wellington, or Lovelock), am I right?
You are correct!
But I have lived in a small town of 5,000 people where neighbors were pretty far away and going to school was not easy.
I am saying that vouchers may be worth looking into.
Quoting Patrick_R_Gibbons: "If you really cared you'd be willing to pay more than just a few extra cents.
Frankly, no one should be willing to pay more for the low quality service we've already recieved - and in the fat booming times, no less.
Education needs fundamental reform, not more money".
Usually I think you are a well read doofus, I would have thought you smarter than this post showed, please refrain from questioning whether I care.
I have seen the school system inside out. 90% of the problem with education is caused by the lack of parental involvement in all processes. You may be too unidirectional to see this, but I thought I'd try. Maybe you can ride a one legged horse.
The state says it can't pay its bills, now it wants to renege on its promises. And you are trying to take advantage of peoples rights during a financial shortage.
What are you willing to do besides pee on teachers constantly?
Patrick...
This story is about CUTTING SALARIES OF TEACHERS.
I understand you have a job to do there in the old "think tank" and that Sheldon Addelson's monopoly money won't run out on you anytime soon, but think about it... you are plying your trade here. Vouchers, school choice, that's a discussion for another story.
nevadaappleslices...I am not a teacher. But teaching your little urchins is NOT a priveledge, beleive me.
You & The Whiz... you just don't get it! You HAVE NO SAY!
N.O.N.E....
BTW...
I am still waiting for nevadaappleslices to share with us her department and responsibilities as a "UNLV Professor."
I think we will be waiting til' the cows come home.
JEFFfromvegas,
Excellent comments.
Unfortunately, Patrick has an AGENDA. All bought and paid for by NPRI.
Yes, the State is trying to weasel out of it's commitments... no call for alternative revenues, no creative thought WHATSOEVER...just the usual
"tighten your belts a couple o' more notches, folks, we are broke." This from the LEAST TAXED STATE in the NATION. SAD.
dont't ask the opinion of the son, ask the opinion of the father; if you are a teacher.
gmag, I'm glad that there is karma and that a nice fat pay cut is coming your way. It is disgusting that you feel so entitled and don't get that your job IS a privilege and not a right.
I am a teacher, and I have to say to those who say "teachers need to feel the pain now" is just completely sad.
For starters, my pay is only $36,000/year. My average paycheck is about $1100 after taxes and retirement contributions are taken out. Our insurance completely SUCKS. If it weren't for my husband's insurance, my co-pays would be $20 every single visit.
This is only for a 7hr 11min work day. We, as teachers, are unable to get everything done each day. We are teaching from the first bell to the last bell. In high school, I repeat the cycle five times. My prep is only 50 minutes. During my prep, I am supposed to grade papers, create lesson plans, sit in on meetings when I am told to, etc. I end up taking my grading home.
I work at a high school within a low-income neighborhood. In order to get decent and consistent work from my students, I supply paper, pens, and pencils to get the job done. I bring in a lot of my stuff for the students to do projects because I firmly believe students need to do more than constantly read and write, but also apply their skills creatively.
Would I be willing to take a paycut? Well, it all depends on how deep it is. If they cut out the professional development days, it is only fair I do not get paid for them. I am not teaching on those days, nor am I a student learning more about my profession. In the end, I feel that being paid my salary and only working for nine months is a great thing.
But I have one thing MANY, MANY teachers do not have: a husband who has a decent salary and decent insurance to where we made it when I wasn't teaching.
You all have to remember that many teachers are not attached to someone who can support them in every single way, including financially when money is taken away each paycheck that was once there.
I am not making excuses for my colleagues, but many teachers bought homes and were caught in the whole storm where their mortgages skyrocketed because of an ARM loan, or any kind of loan for that matter that was raised too high to manage now.
We suffer a lot more than you think. Our hearts suffer when we see our students come in because they lost their homes or apartments because of lost jobs. We suffer with our students, on top of our own suffering.
I agree as a member of our state's community, I should take a cut as well. But many seem to want it to be a huge cut. Remember, while firefighters and police officers have a union, we do not. We have an association. Let's also not forget that each firefighter or police officer makes the salary of 2-3 teachers put together.
Please do not lump teachers in with firefighters and police officers.
For the reform-minded among us, do you plan to implement all these things (vouchers, tax credits, choice) by the end of the month?
The choices before us are very stark--cut and/or tax. Since the gov. controls the agenda for the special session, the choice is cut.
Patrick, you are DEAD WRONG. Use your common sense if you have one. Good teachers are not going to come here to make 25,000. The book you cite might be referring to that paying more does not necessarily increase quality, and in some cases that may be true, but to attract qualified teachers, in the first place, you need to offer some decent compensation, don't you agree? I'd love to see you spend a month on a teacher's salary and then hear what you have to say--you or any of your fellow NPRI ideologues.
Yes, Patrick, and please, I'd love to hear your reaction to KarlanaKulseth's post.
nevadappleslices....you are a ninny. and disingenuous as the day is long. You post only to bash education. I INVITE ANYONE TO CLICK ON NEVADAAPPLESLICES NAME and see for yourself the vile nature of her posts. ALL ANTI-EDUCATION.
WHAT IS YOUR MOTIVE????
Once again, I ask you to validate your claim that you are a "UNLV Professor." I think you are being "less than truthful."
And for the last time, I am NOT a teacher, but I respect what they do and support them UNEQUIVICALLY in their quest to protect their meager salaries.
Not having any kids?
Priceless
Sure everyone should recieve a pay cut, but start at the top not at the bottom.The district office staff, the stupidintendant, and all his lil cronys , get rid of all assistant principals, Reduce pay in support management, maintanence staff, everyone not just teachers.
rejco, I repeat...
YOU are a NUTJOB.
TEACHERS listen up!! The only ones getting pay raises from all this are the rah rah union leaders that you're paying monthly. Take the pay cut and keep your job! Stop listening to the union because they won't be putting food on your table. I've been there, done that, and dumped the union and kept my job!! It's simple economics!
"Teachers, long a popular and protected political constituency..." Protected from what exactly David? From sharing in the wealth when LV was a boom town? Nope, don't remember any BIG raise when the carpenter/contractor across the street was raking it in. From sharing in the "fund education first initiative" people such as you in the "private sector" fought for in our state? Nope, as I remember that initiative died due to lack of public support. Tell me...exactly WHAT have I been protected from in my 27 years of teaching? Certainly not the "grab the headlines" drivel people like you write!
stop cutting off schools!!!!
i have not been inside a school in at least 10 years. today i went into my step daughters school and saw her classroom. its about as large as my 2 car garage, and my living room combined!! kids were on top of each other!!!!
un real!! its sad. `
Education is supremely important. It is literally what makes a society and culture survive from generation to generation. Improving education will do far more for the economy than anything else in the long term.
So why not just have the schools close and then look at all the money the will have to spend on useless things like education.... Initially they could save by parking all the buses and making the kids walk to school... Then they would have some stories to tell how they walked 20 miles to school in the rain and snow,, only to find out it was closed.....
This "kids are the future stuff" is getting old. Today's kids are not going to be paying for my social security. They will be in such deep hock on their credit cards and student loans that they won't be able to pay for anybody's benefits.
This is a breakdown of the CCSD employees for 2009-2010 (source Clark County School District)
CCSD employs 38,523 people, including full-time, part-time, substitute and temporary employees:
18,211 Licensed personnel
11,444 Support staff (includes clerical and food service staff, bus drivers, teacher aides, custodians, etc.)
1,322 Administrators
157 School police
4,252 Substitute teachers
3,634 Other temporary/substitute employees
352 schools or about 110 employees per school.
Where do you want to start cutting folks?
Right now there are about 28 employees per administrator. If you can cut the number of administrators in half at will get about $100 million in savings, assuming salaries and benefits of $150,000 per year. Still short of the magnitude of cuts now being discussed.
If you cut the number in half you will have one administrator for 56 employees. Can you run the schools without them?
I have no idea, but the idea of cutting a salary of a teaching taking home $1,100 per check is not a good idea.
Maybe it is time to think taxes.
uddeboda: "The future looks even more grim, with the huge deficit's the US is running up, and future big tax increases will come." I must correct you: The huge deficits (without apostrophe) the US HAS BEEN running up. Remember, 3 trillion of this deficit was inherited from the other administration, deficit which was accrued mostly because of an unnecessary war and tax cuts for the rich. Obama wants tax cuts for those who are going to pump that money into the economy and create jobs, not for those who don't need it. And, better times will come.. for the rest of the nation. For Nevada, only after a comprehensive tax reform...after this state makes the gaming, mining and businesses in general pay their fair share, instead of penalizing the working class by raising only the sales tax.
my wife is teacher assistant and work at safe key. i feel for u teacher i don't know why you teacher buy thing for the classroom don't use you money. let school district buy it if they don't. kids don't get it. it not your job to buy thing for classroom. this state don't have respect for teacher. parents must have responsibility for there kids education. it start at home.
all these comments are no different than any othe state employee who has been cut.Some have been cut more than others. Is this fair? Some state agencies, have not only lost benifits, they pay more for others, PLUS, the agency budget was cut, PLUS that got a 4.6% pay reduction due to furlough. They also bought homes, they also have a 2 state income, which is double the loss. Now, they want a second reduction. I am really sorry, but I don't have much sympathy when some have already gone through 1 set of payroll cuts, and expected to take another ,while some complain they don't even want the first, so which agency will get a bigger pay cut, and how many will lose their jobs, because teachers,cops and firefighters refuse to make paycheck concessions?
$170 million over the next 69 weeks (March 1, 2010 through June 30, 2011 end of the biennium) is less than 20 cents per day for each of the 1.8 million residents of Clark County.
We have heard over and over again that teacher need to share the pain. That sounds good until you look at the facts. During the years and years of economic boom, teachers did NOT share in any of the good times. In the last 12 years there has only been two years that the teachers have gotten a cost of living increase that was even close to inflation. Several of those years, the cost of living increase was 1% when inflation was 3 to 4 percent. Over that period of economic boom, teachers actually lost a lot of ground when inflation is considered.
Now come the bad times. All of those businesses that flourished economically during the boom, now are expecting teachers to share in the pain. That would be a fair expectation, if teachers had actually shared in the good times as well. So, there is no doubt that teachers will again, take it in the a** and keep on doing the best they can do to educate our children. Maybe it is time for all to pay their fair share.
Yes uddeboda--is the actual national debt that high? I thought it was only $50 trillion, which is the GDP of the entire world. Have you seen the movie "IOUSA"? Check out a short version at http://www.iousathemovie.com/. Andrew Jackson was one of the few Presidents who actually paid off the national debt. When China refuses to lend us more money, our social security checks are going to bounce because the feds won't have any money.
please, since I have been working for a state agency, I have seen years of no cola, others were 2% of which ins premiums were raised 1 1/2% and the 1/2% was far less than inflation.The only time there was a 4% cola, was last year and we got furloughed instead, by 4.6%. The Sage commision says state employees are #8 in the nation for salary, and that is a farce. If you look at the national comparison, we are no where near # 8. You are crying to the choir.Regardless of past raises, or lack of raises, we are in a recession that require EVERY Nevadan to share in the cutting process. We state employees have sacrificed one 4.6% pay reduction, and it is time the rest of the people that work for the state to recieve a 4.6% pay reduction added to whatever ole gibbie cuts us this time. If that doesn't happen and all state agencies have the same reduction, I'm pretty sure you will see an uprising of hundreds, possibly thousands of not so happy state people that have already been cut once.
I forgot to make mention teachers salary is based on 185 days of work which is barely 8 months. We other state employees work all year. If you calc that out, your pay is pretty good, and you have more steps and I don't believe you pay into pers for your retirement, and you can retire and go back to your job(double dip)and you can recieve higher pay for more eduction. Not too shabby.They passed a law last year we can't retire and consult for a period of time, conflict of interest so they say.
gmag - You are being WAY to easy on rejco and personally the comments that rejco posts do not even warrent a reply. For rejco to be so nasty about everything he/she must not have a very happy life. Have pity on the poor thing.
Turrialba - then you'll have no problem paying my $.20 as well, right?
Cutting teachers pay is the dumbest and one of the stupidest ideas to-date. How about the career politicians take a pay cut for not doing their job and losing all the token public employees who produce absolutely nothing.
Our system is broken and you people refuse to admit that what liberals have to done America has created our immense problems we're facing. This isn't rocket science, the freeloaders and Liberals have sucked us dry and America can't afford to continue to support these lunatics, we're broke just in case you haven't noticed. They've done this by design and they will stop at nothing to ensure that we remain a broke nation and we become dependent upon their sick liberal policies.
For those of us to who choose to work and not suck off the system, we're sick and tired of your lazy pathetic life styles that you have chosen and we don't care about you or your offspring. When you choose to become productive members of society and quit whining and complaining about what we're not doing for you and accept your choices and admit that you are at fault for your choices, not me, until this time occurs, you've awaken America and we're not putting up with you anymore.
Teachers are sick of being told to make excuses because your off spring is nothing but a bunch of whining gang bangers who expect everything for nothing and can blame society for your choices. Teachers are grossly underpaid and their stress levels and tenfold that of average citizens because they have to put up with your lazy pathetic kids excuses and you demanding everything for nothing.
Teachers should be allowed to teach, not succumb to your choices and the sick policies of the liberal politicians.
With pleasure Need Guy.
"we are in a recession that require EVERY Nevadan to share in the cutting process."
So the ones who didn't share in the good times have to share in the pain?
I can agree with a haircut (4% is a reasonable amount). But they're talking about a lot more than a little off the top - they're talking 3 weeks of furloughs (which is about a 10-15% cut). For a teacher in the rural counties, that's pretty much guaranteeing they'll be making about minimum wage when all is said and done.
I went to school back East in the '70s in a building that was 25 years old, had a very simple recreation area (playground) and an area set up with a football field with simple metal bleachers. We didn't have a basketball court, we shared our basketball court with a nearby school (they shared our football field). We had a lunchroom and library and that was about it for amenities.
Why am I mentioning this? In the course of my work every day, I see elementary and middle schools that are far more extravagant. The high schools I see are practically the equivalent of college campuses. What I'd like to know is why? When is the last time you've seen a simple and efficient public building?? We've got all of these monuments to engineering that if they had been designed in the private sector, would be much more cost efficient to build, would cost much less to maintain, and would be a better value.
The each government building is being built like a tribute to whichever government official proposes it and has no concern with the cost for the taxpayers that will be footing the bill not only now, but for the life of the building. Look at what's happening right now in the City of Las Vegas, and the City of North Las Vegas.. They're building brand new city halls, as they're eyeing layoffs of the very city employees that it will take to staff them.. Perhaps these two cities should enjoy them as they watch their cities crumble around them because there are no workers to maintain the infrastructure.
If the governmental entities were as concerned about their long term operation and plan for the future, instead of their outward appearance, perhaps they'd have the money to pay their employees a decent wage and we wouldn't have to be having the discussion.
When is the last time you've heard any mayor or city manager put out a press release saying that they are going to downscale or eliminage any new buildings? You won't because it's more important for them to have their legacy. If any of the officials actually were doing the job they were ELECTED to do, we wouldn't be in this mess.
If the teachers make concessions, all that will happen is that the ones that don't get laid off will be making less.. When times are bad, they want to take away 6% per year, when times are good, you have to fight for a 3% raise..
If you have a hole in the bottom of a boat, it doesn't matter how big the hole is.. if you don't fix it, you're still going to sink...
Wow uddeboda. That national debt clock is pretty wild. It looks like a payday loan website gone out of control. Apparently we can't just print money to pay the bills like they did in Zimbabwe.
http://villageofjoy.com/billions-of-zimb...
Hold on, don't we need another commitee to sort this out? We don't seem have the brain power in the State Capitol to get our state back on track, can anyone up there spell LOTTERY. Bypass the Governor, he's clue'less.
It's time the teachers (uh, excuse me, I meant to say "EDUCATORS") realize that they need to learn to live with less like the rest of us have. My job of 11 years went away last year and I've been surviving by cutting way back on everything and working wherever I can get work.. I get sick and tired of the crying about being underpaid. They're shouting it out the windows of their Mercedes Benz as they drive by on yet another of their paid days off.
There's no teachers living in my neighborhood, most are living in much higher priced homes.
So stop crying about how poor you are and try living in the real world.
its2hot, perfect avatar for ya!!!! You obviously don't wear your hat!!
Lottery was one of the many ideas sent to gibbie, and his response on it was just as stupid as his other excuses. Per gibbie, lottery is geared toward poor people, and the welfare people and poorer people would be spending their checks on the lottery.
"share the pain!"
Give me a break.
If the shoe was on the other foot...
"So stop crying about how poor you are and try living in the real world."
Starting salary for a school teacher in Lyon County is $35,000 per year. Most support staff make under $30,000 a year.
That real enough for ya, pal?
I am not aware of any other government position where the employees are purchasing their own paper towels and soap to wash and dry not only their hands, but also the hands of the 25 others they serve on a daily basis. Nor am I aware of other government employees who buy boxes and boxes of tissue so that their customers can comfortably blow their noses. In addition, I am not aware of any other government employees who pay for the tools their customers will need for the employees to do their jobs. For teachers that means paper, pencils, and other learning materials that many schools in the district can't afford.
I work in a Title I school where the children we serve are from low-income families. It doesn't matter how many times you request supplies from the parents if they can't afford to help.
Before I became a teacher, I couldn't understand why I was requested to donate so much ($) in the way of supplies to my children's elementary school. Now I know that it is because if the parents don't pitch in, it is the teachers who will be paying for these things when the schools they work in can't fit it into their budgets! Many teachers will make personal sacrifices in order to keep their classrooms running because they wholeheartedly love what they do, and the children they serve.
As a single mother of two, it is getting harder and harder for me to make those monetary sacrifices.
Shall I mention the THOUSANDS of dollars some of us spend every year on continuing education in order to be able to teach in our classrooms? For me personally, it wipes out my entire pay increase every year!
The majority of the public doesn't REALLY know what's going on in the schools. I know I didn't until I became a teacher. One can't make an informed decision without ALL of the information. Hope this helps.
Could we just stop having so many kids? Have a couple less and see where we are in ten or fifteen years.
I am not willing to pay ONE CENT more in tax for teachers.
The teachers will stand their ground and will not be willing to take any pay cuts. That's fine with me.
Just do the 2,300 layoffs, increase class size by 9 kids, and be done with it.
No worse than in the private sector.
It's actually very simple.....when it comes to education, you get what you pay for.....
Many of those posting on this thread and complaining about how teachers are over-paid probably haven't been inside a class room in many, many years & they currently have no kids in school. No surprise there....
In other words, they don't have a clue concerning what is going on in the world of education.
Yes, teachers in Nevada will probably be forced to take a pay cut, and yes, the number of kids in most class rooms in Nevada will increase dramatically...
Yes, there will be many positions eliminated as part of budget cutting process...
Some class rooms may have as many as 40-50 students in a class room that was designed for 25 students...
The teachers assigned to those classes will "hunker down" and do the best job that they can which may fall short of what would be ideal......but again, you get what you pay for in education!
Education in the state of Nevada is second rate and has been for a long, long time. This is not to say that Nevada's teachers are qualified (which they are....) or aren't putting in the effort required to make a difference with the kids that they teach....
Nothing could be further from the truth!
Nevada's economy is between a "rock & a hard place" and I often hear people say that Nevada should diversity it's economy. I think that's a great idea but there's one major catch in terms of getting that done...
Corporate America will not come to a state that has an inferior educational system...
One of the first things that a new company looks at before deciding to move to another location is the quality of the schools in that new location....
I don't believe I'm saying anything that hasn't been stated many times before. Of course, many people already know & agree with what I'm saying......the one's who don't agree will never agree!
What's new?
Douglas,
You say STARTING salary is 35k (that's the same salary as a full time worker making $17.00 / hr., without 3 months vacation and holidays every other Monday).
What is salary for one with say 10 years experience, how about 15 years?
It's easy to quote the starting rate (35 isn't bad for "starting" salary) but ignoring the fact that most are making much more than that.
That real enough for you, pal?
Someone stated earlier that if teachers don't like then they should go home. Don't you think that most would prefer to go back to our home states where teachers are respected and class sizes are smaller? I love the weather here, I love my school, but I don't like the class sizes and I don't like the attitude some people here have about education. Don't you want the best for students today? We cant give them our best with 42 students in a classroom. We can try, but it's not possible in classes that large to reach every student. If it was only about a pay cut, then fine, but it's about so much more here in Nevada.
Another poster was correct in saying that Corporate America isn't going to move here with our ranking near the bottom in education. If you haven't been in a school in Clark County recently you should go take a look and then see if you think teachers should take a pay cut.
"What is salary for one with say 10 years experience, how about 15 years?"
10 years experience you would be averaging 50,000 per year. But to get that you would need either a Bachelor's Degree with over 36 credits towards a Master's, or a Master's Degree.
15 years experience would be $60,000. But you would need the Master's Degree or higher.
And you're assuming an 8-hour day, 5 days a week. You show me a teacher who's working just 40 hours a week, and I'll show you a lousy teacher. My sister is a teacher and she puts in 50-60 hours a week MINIMUM between grading, prepping lessons (her "prep" period during school is spent dealing with parents and in curriculum meetings), helping students, advising clubs and activities, and doing common-area duty.
And those "days off"? Most of them she's either in mandatory training classes or working (she teaches English, which means term papers, research projects, and all of that).
And because she's a contract employee, she gets NO overtime for any of it.
Impose a "Breeding Tax", for family's that have more than 2 children in the school district at any one time.
So let's get some of your math in line, you claim $35k a year is a lot of money, get real and look at the cost of living and what it costs to raise a family. These teachers are the lowest paid in the system, public works inspectors and their departments are paid excessively, affirmative action tokens are being paid for producing nothing, county commissioners are paid for being the most corrupt politicians, and other executive branches are paid in excess of $100k a year for sucking up to hierarchy. Not to mention school systems executive branch are paid in excess of $100k a year and the superintendent is paid in excess of $300k a year, what do they do that makes their pay so much higher? Let me tell you, they are better lairs, pricks, and heathens!
I for one am so sick of seeking the working class take it up the shorts, it's about time the working class standup to these liars and take what they deserve, a fair wage for on honest day's work.
Do your math idiots, see what is paid to people with no education and more than likely are working here as illegal immigrants and our tax dollars are being spent to have them here and are being paid the following wages when working on public works project funded by us. They work 40-hours a week and more and work 48 weeks a year or more in Clark County. Do the math now, shows just how stupid people have become and how liberals have crammed their lies down our throats; yet you're all too stupid to know any better.
And politicians have the audacity to even think about cutting wages to those who are responsible to teach. Get real you lunatic liberals!
GENERAL DECISION: NV20080022 12/25/2009 NV22
Date: December 25, 2009
General Decision Number: NV20080022 12/25/2009
Superseded General Decision Number: NV20070029
State: Nevada
Construction Type: Heavy
County: Clark County in Nevada.
EXCLUDES NEVADA TEST SITE (NTS), NATIONAL TEST AND TRAINING
RANGE (NTTR) AND TONOPAH TEST RANGE (TTR)
Modification Number Publication Date
0 02/08/2008
1 02/15/2008
2 04/11/2008
3 05/16/2008
4 07/11/2008
5 07/25/2008
6 08/08/2008
7 08/15/2008
8 09/19/2008
9 10/10/2008
10 11/28/2008
11 04/03/2009
12 07/03/2009
13 07/10/2009
14 12/25/2009
* CARP1780-011 07/01/2009
Rates Fringes
CARPENTER (Form Work Only).......$ 37.76 10.85
ZONE PAY:
0 to 40 miles radius from intersection of Maryland Parkway
and Charleston Blvd in Las Vegas: Free Zone
40 to 60 miles radius: $2.50 additional per hour
Over 60 miles radius: $4.25 additional per hour
Laughlin Area: $2.00 additional per hour
----------------------------------------------------------------
* CARP1827-001 07/01/2009
Rates Fringes
MILLWRIGHT.......................$ 38.68 10.93
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Zone 1: 30 miles radius around Las Vegas from the
intersection of Maryland Parkway and Charleston Blvd - Free
Zone.
Zone 2: 30 to 50 miles radius - $1.50 additional per hour.
Zone 3: 50 miles or more - $3.25 additional per hour.
Laughlin Area - $2.00 additional per hour.
----------------------------------------------------------------
ELEC0357-007 12/01/2007
Rates Fringes
ELECTRICIAN......................$ 36.21 14.20+3%
ZONE PAY:
(A) The area bound by a 25 mile radius from the intersection
of Main Street and Fremont Street in Las Vegas is hereby
established a Free Zone.
(B) The area bound by a 25-55 mile radius from the
intersection of Main and Fremont Street shall receive $2.50
per hour at a straight time rate for Zone Pay.
(C) The area outside of 55 miles radius from Main Street and
Fremont Street shall receive $3.50 per hour at the straight
time rate of Zone Pay.
----------------------------------------------------------------
ENGI0012-012 07/01/2009
Rates Fringes
Operators:
(03) Skid Loader/Bobcat.....$ 37.91 16.00
(04) Backhoe, Roller,
Trackhoe....................$ 39.40 16.00
(06) Bulldozer, Scraper.....$ 39.62 16.00
(08) Mechanic, Excavator....$ 39.73 16.00
(10) Grader/ Blade..........$ 39.85 16.00
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IRONWORKER: Reinforcing and
Structural.......................$ 33.00 23.71
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LABO0872-007 07/01/2008
Rates Fringes
LABORER
(1) Form Stripping..........$ 24.31 16.83
(3) Mason Tender-Cement
Concrete....................$ 24.62 16.83
(8) Flagger.................$ 22.81 16.83
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PAIN0159-002 07/01/2008
Rates Fringes
PAINTER..........................$ 34.63 10.49
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PLAS0797-007 07/01/2007
Rates Fringes
CEMENT MASON/CONCRETE FINISHER...$ 31.28 11.25
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SHEE0088-003 01/01/2009
Rates Fringes
SHEETMETAL WORKER (Including
HVAC Duct Installation and
Metal Roof)......................$ 39.03 16.59
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SUNV2007-029 09/19/2007
Rates Fringes
CARPENTER, Excluding Form Work...$ 25.43 8.79
LABORER: Common or General......$ 20.93 0.00
LABORER: Concrete Saw...........$ 23.92 0.00
LABORER: Landscape..............$ 18.51 0.00
LABORER: Pipelayer..............$ 21.73 8.31
OPERATOR: Backhoe Loader
Combo............................$ 30.15 10.31
OPERATOR: Crane.................$ 28.54 9.75
OPERATOR: Loader................$ 38.10 0.00
PIPEFITTER.......................$ 28.79 9.23
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TEAM0631-005 07/01/2008
Rates Fringes
TRUCK DRIVER
GROUP 1.....................$ 26.69 16.64
GROUP 2.....................$ 26.79 16.64
GROUP 3.....................$ 27.00 16.64
GROUP 4.....................$ 27.18 16.64
ZONE PAY:
ZONE 1: All work within 30 road miles of City Hall in Las
Vegas shall be considerered a Free Zone.
ZONE 2: All work 30 to 50 road miles from City Hall in Las
Vegas shall receive $1.50 additional per hour.
ZONE 3: All work 50 to 70 road miles from City Hall in Las
Vegas shall receive $2.50 additional per hour.
ZONE 4: ALL work over 70 road miles from City Hall in Las
Vegas shall receive $3.50 additional per hour.
CLASSIFICATIONS
GROUP 1: Flatbed; Dump Truck less than 12 yds.
GROUP 2: Dump trucks 12 yds but less than 16 yds.
GROUP 3: Dump trucks 16 yds up to and including 22 yds.
GROUP 4: Dump trucks over 22 yds.
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WELDERS - Receive rate prescribed for craft performing
operation to which welding is incidental.
========================================================
Unlisted classifications needed for work not included within
the scope of the
classifications listed may be added after award only as
provided in the labor
standards contract clauses (29 CFR 5.5(a)(1)(ii)).
----------------------------------------------------------------
--
In the listing above, the "SU" designation means that rates
listed under the
identifier do not reflect collectively bargained wage and
fringe benefit
rates. Other designations indicate unions whose rates have been determined
to be prevailing.
----------------------------------------------------------------
--
WAGE DETERMINATION APPEALS PROCESS
1.) Has there been an initial decision in he matter? This can
be:
* an existing published wage determination
* a survey underlying a wage determination
* a Wage and Hour Division letter setting forth a position on
a wage
determination matter
* a conformance (additional classification and rate) ruling
On survey related matters, initial contact, including requests
for summaries
of surveys, should be with the Wage and Hour Regional Office
for the area in
which the survey was conducted because those Regional Offices
have
responsibility for the Davis-Bacon survey program. If the
response from this
initial contact is not satisfactory, then the process described
in 2.) and
3.) should be followed. With regard to any other matter not yet ripe for the formalProcess described here, initial contact should be with the Branch of
Construction
Impressive figures from its2hot--however a salary of $30 an hour doesn't mean anything if you're not working, and these are bad times for construction, to say the least. I don't think the city is hiring any plumbers or electricians or bricklayers now. Some jobs are just simply so awful that most people can only put up with those jobs for 4 or 5 years at the most. Apparently teaching is one of those kinds of jobs.
its2hot...some of those jobs, such as electrician, are more difficult than teaching, and should pay more than a teacher earns.
You know things are bad when even the liberals understand the need to cut salaries and do layoffs.
Also, when a company is considering moving locations, one of the first things they look at is NOT the quality of schools. Certainly it is up there, but the first things they look for are inexpensive land and housing, and a favorable tax climate.
As an aside, I am a conservative republican. I would be willing to consider raising taxes to pay for schools, if in exchange, I could get a SCHOOL VOUCHER in the amount of the increased tax, to send my child to a private school.
A teacher starting at $35,000 is usually somebody right of college...a young 22 or 23 year old.
If they work hard and do the right things in about 10 to 15 years they can get to the $70,000 range.
They get 3 months off a year plus they get holiday days that the private sector do not get plus they get regular vacation days.
When they turn 60, they can retire and get about a $65,000 year pension.
Also, if they do not use their sick days, they will get a around a $200,000 to $300,000 check.
Teachers jobs are not that stressful.
It is nearly impossible to get fired, too.
Oh...I forgot....they do not pay the 7.5% Social Security Tax either.
So if they $70,000 a year that is equal to a person in the private sector making around $76,000 a year.
OH, LORDY, ENOUGH OF THIS.
Obviously teachers are not respected in Nevada. So, why not leave? Without teachers, the schools will close and all these kids will be moved elsewhere. Las Vegas is a greedy town built on sucking tourists dry and providing tawdry, overblown, overpriced entertainment - to make the investors rich. Allow it to do its thing without having to worry about human beings and their families; and it will die its own natural death. Who cares anyway? It's too hot and dry and dusty to enjoy life here.
"Obviously teachers are not respected in Nevada. So, why not leave? "
You can if you want, too. You will probably will have a hard time finding another teacher job in the nation at this point in time.
I doubt that you are a teacher for you probably would have already known this.
Many other states have laid-off teachers and cut teacher salaries.
Nevada has not yet.
Nevada salaries are ranked between 17th and 21st in the nation.
Nevada retirement benefits are probably in the top 10.
But if you are not happy then you can try to move if that makes you happy.
Rock, you are full of it and if you had any sense you'd stop babbling about things you know NOTHING about.
If you take Employee Paid Retirement through PERS, they take 10.5% of your check. That's MORE that they would take out under Social Security.
"Also, if they do not use their sick days, they will get a around a $200,000 to $300,000 check."
According the Lyon County Education Association Negotiated Agreement, the maximum benefit any LCEA employee can earn from accrued sick leave is $5,400 dollars. And for that, they need to have worked 10 years for the district. You max out at 180 days for reimbursement.
SgtRock is indeed a moron and needs to go back to school so he can learn something.
He obviously has not seen the CCSD salary scale and how one moves up the pay ladder. He's too dumb to find it on the internet, but I did in about 2 seconds.
The only CCSD teachers than qualify to earn $70k per year are teachers who earn a PhD. degree and teach for at least 14 yrs.
Very few teachers ever reach this level. Why? Because it costs about $100k to earn the PhD. and many years of study.
And you'll need to work for a very long time, at NV's paultry wages, to earn the money back you invested in yourself and your profession.
He thinks it's not a stressful job. Then man up, SgtRock, and put your money where your mouth is. Become a teacher and make a difference in this world.
And speaking of moving, why don't YOU leave, SgtRock? You don't like your tax dollars going towards teachers, fine.
But this America, love it or leave it. We'd be better off without you. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Hello all,
I signed up tonight just to set a few things straight from the misinformation from SgtRock.
I hope it was not his intention to mislead readers with estimations of teacher's salaries.
Yes, I am a teacher here and I love my job. I have Worked Hard, but the idea that after 10-15 years I'd be making $70,000 range is not accurate, nor is my pension projection of $65,000.
I'll deal with the facts that I know. I have a Master's degree plus 32 additional graduate credits( that's kind of like another Master's) I have 29 years of teaching experience and I am maxed out on the CCSD payscale. I earn $67,000. My pension caps at 75% of the average of my 3 (out of the last 5) highest years. Simple mathematics tells me I won't be receiving that $65,000 Sgt Rock proposed when I turn 60.
I never went into teaching for the money but I do resent people that do not have the facts. I realize these are facts that pertain to me but it takes all teachers in this district about half of their careers and a Master's Degree to get to $50,000.
As for all this money Sgt Rock declares I am going to receive for my sick days is absolutely ridiculous.
Yes, a school year is 185 days for teachers and as professionals we have attractive benefits--- but most private sector jobs also have paid holidays anywhere from 5-12. In addition, most don't work 52 weeks in a year.
If teachers are to take a pay cut then I feel Police and Firefighters should take the identical cut. Can't keep giving raises to some and cuts to the others.
I appreciate the fair comments, public support of teachers is very important to us Thanks for an opportunity to vent
"I never went into teaching for the money but I do resent people that do not have the facts."
They don't want facts. They want their convenient punching bags.
I live out in the "cow counties", and the way things are up here the kind of cuts they're talking would be brutal beyond belief. Especially to the smaller schools or more remote areas where things like transportation are more "necessities" than "luxuries".
Doug,
You say your sister works 60 hours a week, including the time she spends off the clock preparing lessons, grading, etc.
In that case, she's definately a good teacher and I commend her for the good job she's doing.
My question is not that I am against teachers or even the money they make. The simple fact is that the rest of us are suffering cuts, increased co pays, higher insurance costs, layoffs, etc. There's no reason that in bad times EVERYONE, inccluding teachers should do their part. If that means a pay cut, then so be it.
Most of the job comparisons above are for higher paid construction jobs. Most of those jobs, especially in private industry have been replaced with jobs paying 10-15 an hour. A clerk at Vons (or other union stores) makes maybe $16 an hour and rarely gets 40 hours a week. My dad was lucky to get over 25 hours the last 5 years of his employment at union grocers. Most retail jobs pay minimum to 15 an hour (most closer to minimum). A mechanic at the car dealer makes less than 20 an hour, but the dealer charges 80-90. Restaurant managers work 60 hours a week for about 35k a year, No O.T.
Times are tough, I got laid off and have struggled to survive by taking whatever work is out there. I'm not some rich guy trying to hold you down, I'm down there too.
Before cutting teacher pay, here are some thoughts.
If I were a babysitter I would get paid more. The national average per hour for a babysitter is a little over $6.00/hr. Since I see my students for just under that each day, I will go with $5.00 per hour.
Assuming every student attended class EVERY day (rarity) I should make the following for BABYSITTING (not even teaching!).
1st period: $140/day
2nd period: $160/day
3rd period: $170/day
4th period: $165/day
5th period: $165/day
6th period: $220/day
Total = $855/day! or $153,900/year! (180 days)
I make a little over $50,000 (with a master's degree and seven years experience...and I get additonal coaching monies)
Maybe ya'll are right, maybe we should get out of "teaching" and into babysitting your kids instead...apparently you value babysitters more than teachers. I can watch your kids in bulk for the low, low price of $5/hr!!!
Aside from that, the reason Nevada is 50th in the nation in education? Well, perhaps it is because of the following responses I get DAILY from 80% or more of my students.
When asked if they did their homework (practicing skills taught):
"I forgot"
"I just didn't do it"
"I had to work"
"I didn't know it was due"
"I was watching the Super Bowl"
"I was doing charity work"
"I was out of town"
and the list goes on...students make excuses daily for not doing their part. How are we as teachers to get them to practice??? If the parents aren't encouraging them, or they lie to their parents, what are we supposed to do???? I'd rather babysit and make more money.
SgtRock suffers from money disease. Somehow in his way of viewing the world, people do things for money like dogs salivate for ring tones.
Absent the notion that humans are, for the most part, driven by their sense of autonomy. The rockster falls short here. The spirit of teachers I have known is anathema to the rocksteristic atavism that holds we're money dogs. The best teachers I have known were almost completely driven by the recursive art form of leading folks out of caves into their own realms where they could thrive as autonomous beings.
Nevada's culture does not support this recognition or valuing of human gifts. Kids are treated as problems, burdens, liabilities in schools here. They are baby-sat, warehoused and wasted by a failing system driven in many ways by demagogues distant from the interaction in the best classrooms. Carnegie units don't measure progress, but it's how we assign progress. The schools are not perfect, but blaming the lowly teacher who is in there pitchin her heart out in a thankless job is pretty typical of what falls out of the mouth of the rockster on a regular basis.
SgtRock on education:
Deny, despise and denigrate!
Jim Gibbons on education:
Who cares?
Itstohot,
Say what you want but there is still a problem with teachers... but that is for another time. You are correct to mention that labor rate is killing us.
I'm so glad unions are around to fix the problems.
The labor rate is connected to the love of teachers. No options means you take what they are willing to part with for your time and energy.
In a diversified economy, specialized labor gains significantly; not here! One-horse mentality dominates because evolution has been blindsided by get-rich-quickness. Swindlin days are gone. Thanks jimbo.
SgtRock as a fly: "I'm going to the sun!"
olde fly community: "You'll never make it: no air, too hot, too far to hold your breath, no food!"
SgtRock: "No problem; I'm going at night!"
NEVADA JOBS ALERT: 2010-circa 2015:
miner...dealer...bartender...taxi...security...dancer...cocktail waitress ...housekeeping...waiter...hooker...tatoo artist...pawn shop guy in big house...valet driver
All other trades, save yer breath; look elsewhere.
teachwho,
No wonder NV ranks so poorly! Your post is flawed logic and consists of liberal fallacies. Anyone can throw out numbers and say they could be making more doing something else.
If you want to babysit, then go babysit! You can do that in a free country. Maybe there is a market for your idea. Ask the daycare center workers if each of them are making $200k a year. I hope you aren't teaching your flawed logic.
Did you really think the money was going to role in as a unionized public school teacher? Did you think that kids were going to be amazing and easy to work with?
I do however agree that parents need to take a more active role in teaching their children. That is why my wife and I have made a habit of making sure that homework gets done.
One can always complain that they could be making more money or that they could be working somewhere else, if you truly believe what you say in your post, don't teach. Go and make yourself rich by babysitting children.
If you want to make the big bucks teaching and you want to be surrounded by kids that (for the most part) want to learn, be a professor.
This constant reasoning that Teachers are above everyone else taking cuts is pathetic. That includes firefighters. It is time that they take a hit like everyone else. If they don't like it quit and go into a new profession. They are not going to get a job as a teacher anywhere else because this is a country wide problem and no one is hiring teachers right now. You still have an income and good benefits. I have to admit I am tired of the teachers being such primadonnas.