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StumbleWynn dealers appeal ruling over tip sharing
Friday, Aug. 13, 2010 | 5:37 p.m.
Sun Archives
- Official: Casinos can split dealers’ tips with supervisors (7-12-2010)
- Caesars Palace mulling change on dealer tips (6-14-2010)
- Casino dealers stymied in reaching labor agreement (2-13-2010)
- Caesars Palace plays hardball with dealers, asserts right to tips (1-18-2010)
- Caesars Palace dealers protest on Strip (9-17-2009)
- For Wynn dealers, deal slow to come (6-24-2008)
- Dealers sour on Caesars (11-19-2007)
- Under the radar, Caesars dealers push for union (10-11-2007)
As expected, Wynn casino dealers have appealed to overturn Nevada Labor Commissioner Michael Tanchek’s July ruling declaring that Steve Wynn can legally force dealers to share tips with supervisors.
Attorneys for the dealers filed a petition for judicial review with the Clark County District Court on Tuesday.
“I think his legal conclusions are wrong,” Las Vegas attorney Leon Greenberg said of Tanchek’s ruling. “I don’t think his decision reflects a lot of facts brought to his attention during the course of the proceedings. He simply ignored them.”
In his ruling, Tanchek said the tip pooling policy didn’t violate state law because Wynn’s company didn’t retain the tips and instead redistributed them to employees. Nor did the company, he said, gain any direct financial benefit from the policy.
Tanchek also noted that customers give tips for any number of reasons that may not be directly related to a dealer’s actions.
That’s a misreading of the situation, given that customers in a table game's setting are tipping dealers for their efforts, Greenberg said.
Wynn initiated the tip pooling policy four years ago at Wynn Las Vegas and expanded it to Encore when that property opened in 2008.
Dealers fought the policy in state court but a judge dismissed the lawsuit, saying the labor commissioner needed to review the matter first.
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don't give up--weinberg is a cockroach and always has been. Clearly this policy is stealing and is illegal--even the great weinberg won't get away with stealing from low level employees and giving it to his managers--who he is too cheap to pay. Eventually justice will win out. Go to china weinberg with your new communist friends--you'll fit right in there.
this is a long standing "tradition" in this town, dealers get tips , supervisors do what supervisors do. they know the game (supers) if they wanted tips they would of stayed dealers. i won't step foot on any a Wynn property
BudBeez is right and I agree 100%. I tip the dealer for what the dealer does, I don't even think of the supervisors. Why would I tip a dealer if someone else brought me a drink.
I would never take a job just to be in charge of people just so I could make a lower income.
@Bud
Thats ok....stay out of Wynn....that'll show 'em...
The supervisors are a part of a Team....the tokes should be split with the Team....it is the Supervisors, with the interactions of the patrons, that keep them coming back to keep the tips coming in...
Eboy31 and ghp2000 i see that nether has work as a dealer.When i started out in the casino it was table for table and if we made a scor we would give some to every one.Now they want the worker to make up the rasies.The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.Thats why they need a union.
its bull what wynn and his wife, ex to be r doing, they gave maids, janitors etc, a 1000,00 bucks for christmas one year, did u know it didnt include the dealers, what a scumbagg, and his wife,this town was built on tips, from parking valets to doormen, dealers, etc, now wynn goes and make nice casinos but rob the dealers,i dont go to wynn or the encore, nor do i suggest it to friends or family visiting, so he can pack up and take that broad with him to china ,macow, russia where ever, get to gettin,cant see anyway but know how to steal from employees, good bye
When I give a tip, which is quite frequent both in Restaurants & Casino's, my tip is meant for the person I give it to. If they decide to share, that is their choice. This should not be left up to Management. In Steve Wynn's case...he should be giving raises to those he promotes to management positions...The Dealers should not be responsible for making up the difference.
"ghp2006" Actually you should wake up and think before you speak! A waiter tipping out a bus boy is not the same as this scenario because the waiter is not the busboys supervisor, whereas a floor person in a casino is the dealers direct supervisor.
someone(Ralston) should check into the relationship & business dealings between that of the labor commissioner Tanchek and Wynn. smells like fish
Why is it that you guys don't complain about having to share tips with your fellow dealers who generate next to no tip income by either having zero personality, an inability to actually speak english, or are simply rude?
I just can't figure it out.
There are dealers who are charismatic, do a fantastic job, generate a ton of tips and seemingly have no problem forking it over to some zero who did nothing to build the tip pot.
If you want to fight for something, fight to stop sharing tips period, and let it be every dealer for themselves.
This is the most absorb situation I've ever seen... To take the funds out of the dealers hard earned money and redistribute into the supervisors pockets is not a ethical business practice...
If the dealers want to give the supervisors a little extra, that would be the sole right of the dealer to do so.... Mr. Wynn should reach in his deep pockets and give the difference, why cry over a little extra petty cash......
I feel bad for the employees having to deal with such a distressed work place on a daily basis. You could not pay me enough to deal with that, and that cannot be good for any business no matter how hard you try to hide it.....
Mr. Wynn, sometimes it's just better to pay out and be done with it....
This is the most absurd situation I've ever seen... To take the funds out of the dealers hard earned money and redistribute into the supervisors pockets is not a ethical business practice...
If the dealers want to give the supervisors a little extra, that would be the sole right of the dealer to do so.... Mr. Wynn should reach in his deep pockets and give the difference, why cry over a little extra petty cash......
I feel bad for the employees having to deal with such a distressed work place on a daily basis. You could not pay me enough to deal with that, and that cannot be good for any business no matter how hard you try to hide it.....
Mr. Wynn, sometimes it's just better to pay out and be done with it....
I think its very self evident to any human being with an IQ over 47 that giving tips to managers from the dealers is stealing which is against the 7th commandment and against the law in all states of the union except Nevada. In the 50's and 60's when all the dealers came from back east to deal in all the mob joints on the strip the MOB said the dealers can split the tips among themselves but we will pay you only minimum wage. It was and still is a great deal for the hotels and dealers. Steve Wynn broke that great pledge...
Terrible arguments.
Bob was a fantastic dealer. I give Bob a tip.
Fred was rude, scowled all night and was a horrible dealer. I tipped Fred nothing.
End of night, part of my tip to Bob goes to Fred.
Um? Hello?
What part of this aren't you guys seeing.
Why isn't the friendly, helpful manager whose there to see things run smoothly any less entitled to a portion of the tip I gave to Bob the good dealer, then Fred the terrible dealer?
Either all of my tip goes to Bob, or it's a non issue.
Eliminate all table games and then see who whines. Ban tipping like many dining establishments to eliminate the pettiness. Limit tipping like some of the operators in the old days.
I worked for Steve Wynn for 16 years as dealer, supervisor, etc. These whiners wouldn't make squat if it wasn't for the players he brings in.
They go to Wynn's joint, not because of the dealers, but because they get the best rules, the best facilitis, restaurants, etc. They go there because it's Wynn's joint, end of story.
They tip if they win, which right there says it's not only about the service. Steve use to bring in Packer and the dealers made a 1,000 a night, but now he tells them to share their tips and he's the bad guy. Get a grip and be thankful you have an operator that can bring the big money and best tippers in.
As far as the hard work. Are you kidding me? Try digging ditchs or running a jack hammer 8 hours a day. Their hard earned money. What a friggin joke. Easiest job in the world and after you have experience you become a robot, which is what 90% of them are.
amusing listening to the "floor supervisors" bad rapping the dealers---the vast majority of floor people have not talked to a customer in years--and only when forced to--most can't stand the customers and never interact with them only to throw the rating card at them and rattle off company policy. Most of the pit bosses in town fall into the same category--they don't talk to the customers unless there is a beef. Funny how the people who do almost no interaction with customers at all, now claim to be great with the customers and want to collect some of the tip money. I will never set foot or spend 1 cent in any wynn property ever again--if harrahs follows suit--i will never go to a harrahs property also! Wynn floor--face up to the fact that you are part of a stealing pathetic management team that steals from the lowest level employees because the boss is too cheap to pay you himself! What a pathetic slimball. Pure greed!
the guy that ruined vegas, god himself stevie boy.
Weinburg's Tip sharing policy is an outrage and goes against EVERYTHING that made Las Vegas successful.Just another nail in the coffin of this once great city..
Steve, Why do you hate working folks?
I hate to say it, but the dealers now need to join a union to eliminate this type of BS. Who would have thought it would come to this. The question should be asked why dealers are paid minimum wage because the answer is that they make tips.
"That's a misreading of the situation, given that customers in a table game's setting are tipping dealers for their efforts, Greenberg said"
This attorney Greenberg is wrong. He is wasting the Dealers money and "he" is misleading the dealers into thinking they have a case. The days of customers tipping a dealer soley for their efforts on the game are long, long gone. This attorney is out of touch. The dealers are wasting their time and money with this argument. Customers tip for many reasons, the dealers efforts is not the number one reason. More like number 3 or 4.
This appeal is making it hard on the current dealers who are trying to make a living and do what is right to remain employed. If not for the casino owners doing a good job of marketing and creating the conditions for gamblers to tip, and building a nice and clean casino, the dealer would not have an opportunity to make additonal money beyond their hourly wage.
This is a clear case of bitting the hand that feeds you. No question. A waste of time, money and good will.
hey longtimevegan, hourly wage is minimum wage, turn off glen beck and get out in the world. just suck it up i guess, idiots like this have driven all our jobs overseas, they don't give a rats butt about anyone but themselves.
@rvrvtv
Here is where ignorance reigns supreme.....there are no "raises" to speak of. Mr Wynn has done a great job of competitive but not over-paying his supervisors to keep everyone employed. Also ask any dealer who makes more, the supervisors or the dealers. Dealers win EVERYTIME
so when will this trial begin
I'll go further: Any casino in Vegas which deals 6/5 BJ should have all its tips confiscated and given to charities that serve children.
Come on now all these dealers are making $150,000 plus at wynn even with the tip sharing. I wont be crying for any of them.
Has anyone ever felt a floor supervisor is part of the gaming experience when they are playing black jack, roulette, etc.???? If you go to Wynn/Encore, the only person who greets you is the dealer! The only one who gets smoke blown in their face is the dealer! The only one who gets called a F'n A-Hole is the dealer! Floor supervisors sit back by the podium, and talks to the pit clerk, or tries to pick up on the much too young waitress who is not even close to being interested in him at all! Wynn lowered the base salary of the floor supervisor, and gave 20-40% cut of the DEALER'S TIPS to them to compensate the salary cuts. Good old Steve saved $25 per day per floor supervisor, and box man to his bottom line making him richer than ever! I have played at Wynn, and Encore in the past, and I have never been approached by a floor supervisor to deal any games to me! Have you?
dealers at the wynn don't make $150,000. they make about half that. who cares how much they make . the customer gives it to them not to the floor supervisors.
Old Vegas dealers shared tips with floor people. That is the way it should be. Floor supervisors play a bigger role in customer service.
Floor people do comps, and keep track of play. Most dealers you ask what someone is in they say "Huh? Who? I dont know".
A person tips the person serving them, not the behind the scenes people. That is what tipping is all about.
Lets just shutdown all the casinos! Since life is so unfair! Everyone thinks they are entitled from the day of birth! If its so dam bad go work else where idiot! Wynn is a job creater, so much for you! Wakeup! WE NEED INDIANS LIKE DEALERS BECAUSE NOT EVERYONE CAN BE THE CHIEF!
So I have the solution to this.
Add buttons in front of the players spot where a tip is placed for the dealer. Button A = tip goes to dealer only, Button B = tip goes to dealer pool only, Button C = share with Sups.
All tables will need to be redesigned which would be good for the economy, and maybe fed stimulus funding.
What ticks me off about most posters in this forum is they all seem to think they should be able to tell employers how they should run their business. Wynn says he wants tips shared therfore enabling him to get good dealers to take suporvisor jobs and train more poeple to be good dealers. It makes sense to me. Why would a good dealer take a supervisor job and make less money? I've heard the argument pay supervisors more money but there is only so much cash flow.
If the dealers don't like it then quit and work someplace else or better yet open your own casino and you can let the dealers keep all the tips they can muster.
sharing tips reduces the incentive for good service.
same logic as the "everyone gets a trophy...just for playing".
no, you get a trophy for winning.
you take the fat girl to the prom for losing.
loosemoose:
The point is, it's the customer's dime as most that are commenting here are saying the customer should have the final say so as to where that tip should be designated to.
It's not the company's dime or decision to designate where tip revenues are disbursed, to share with many other parties that did not contribute the direct service. (other than Wynn Resorts already knew the decision would stick or they would have never started this scam a long time ago)
One thing is tipping front line service dealers that have a table sharing pool or dealer sharing pool, the revenue is still being designated to 'all dealers'.
When I eat at a restaurant, I will either tip the waitress/waiter only, and/or tip the cook(s) if the food is exceptionally good - sometimes the dishwasher too if I see how efficient they are - it's MY decision where my tip revenue goes since I am the customer, it is not a business or company revenue.
How much you wanna bet someone like Drew Carey (known to be a great tipper in Las Vegas) will not tip at the Wynn unless his dime is designated to the direct staffmember that provided the service.
Anyway, I would like to know what Chunky says, and what Chunky thinks on this tip revenue sharing matter.
loosemoose - when you tip in a restuarant you have no idea how the money is split. Many nicer restuarants split tips among a variety of personnel. Bottom line is (a) Wynn owns the place and can set the rules, (b) he is the guy that put up the money and created a business that employees these people, (c) Most of the business is due to Wynn's efforts and reputation (the dealers benefit from that) and (d) if you unionize don't be suprised to get locked out - trust me there are enough people out of work that will GLADLY take a dealer job. Oh and I wonder how many of the dealers report all their tips for income tax purposes - maybe the IRS needs to focus on that instead of worrying about high-rollers laundering money.
QUIT WHINING PEOPLE - QUIT IF YOU DON'T WANT THE JOB. YOU LOST THE CASE SO MOVE ON.
TheBrain:
You said it very well.
Wynn's capital spend and gambler loses created lots of jobs at Wynn.
A monkey could have been in place in stead of Mary Lynne the dealer and nothing would have been any different.
Can someone remind dealers that the only reason they are employed is because gamblers lose and get drunk when up and tip, and monkey's cant count to 21.
Dealers tips are all reported 100% Brain. It is counted at the end of the 24 hour pool period, and transferred into an account the pay roll department controls. Each dealer is paid via check by the property they work every 2 weeks, and all taxes are taken out. You should know these kinds of specifics before you comment on things you have no clue about! If Wynn wants to make everyone happy he should make everyone deal, and work as a floor person as well. Equal time should be spent dealing and flooring on a set schedule so everyone deals, and floors the same amount of days per calender year. Anyone want to answer this with a professional opinion?
"Anyone want to answer this with a professional opinion?"
Yes. Free people should be able to negotiate whatever terms of employment they want to. That goes for both sides. Get the State and the unions out of it. If employees want to unionize, they have a right to -- but the right to collective bargaining does not mean a right to win, only a right to negotiate. If you don't like the job, don't take the job -- or quit.
What business or corp. has ever negioated a fair union contract in the U.S. unless the workers went out on STRIKE? Please all you posters out there let us know because the hotels by law do not have to bargin on anythig and can play the "impasse" game till all the dealers get fired or die off.The culinary union went out on STRIKE twice and shut Las Vegas down before they got anything. I dont get it. Can the dealers STRIKE? If not please go back to work and let management take your tips and give it to their girlfriends..................
Solution for all dealers: At the crack of mid-night December 31, 2010 lift up your table lids , and place it over the racks to protect the chips on the table. Then all you have to do is walk out. Make sure you have a list of demands written up by a labor union attorney, and make sure Steve Wynn has a copy in his hands when you do! This might get his attention. Think of all the money he will lose, and how fast an agreement is made! The only way to win is to collectively strike, and do it when it will hurt the most!
Just so all is fair im climbing up to the survelence room next time and tipping those guys,im sure they feel a little left out of the hands on money action too!
To all the dealers reading these posts and I really hope there are a bunch out there. I have finally figured out this whole Steve Wynn stealing all the tips from the dealers thing out and hear is the bottom line: The issue of stealing the tips from all the dealers and supplementing the floor mens pay with there money is not that important enough to make the dealers STRIKE. The dealers are just not that pissed-off about it as we all thought because a STRIKE is there only shot at any agreement on anything. So go back to work and maybe just maybe (I doubt it) your union and Steve Wynn will agree on where to but your bulliten board to inform you when you must pay your union dues.................
lv1967 --
You apparently don't understand what unions and negotiations are about. It's about management and employees negotiating on a level playing field. In the past, as it still stands today, management has the right to say "take it or leave it." With a union, employees now have standing in law. This allows them to collectively bargain and tell management to "take it or leave it." That's a level playing field -- and both parties have the right to say "I'll leave it."
When employees are actually being under-compensated for their work, management will negotiate -- simply because if the workers are truly being underpaid, it will cost management more to replace them. This is why unions were developed among "skilled" workers. The more skilled the workforce, the greater their ability to negotiate, because the more skilled they are, the harder they are to replace.
The real question is, what is proper compensation? That's determined by the market. The more skilled the workers are, the smaller the market is. That's why strikes don't work for unskilled workers -- they're too easy to replace -- and if they can easily be replaced, they obviously weren't being under-compensated.
I realize that dealers are skilled workers -- but other than craps or roulette, it's a skill the average person could learn in a couple of months. They're not "highly skilled." There's also no shortage of skilled workers in the job market. If the Wynn dealers want to walk out, my guess is that the club already has enough job applications on file to fill those positions by the next day. That doesn't create a powerful "collective" bargaining position for the dealers.
Don't expect management to pay any more than they have to -- why would they? When you're spending your own money do you just pay people what they ask for? Or do you try to determine what things are worth, and shop for the best price?
If you don't like the policy at the Wynn, then write a note to management. You could start out with "Take this job and shove it ..."
If you don't write that note, then you must understand that you're not being under-compensated, and that you're lucky to be the one that's at work and not searching for work.
?? Do the Wynn and Encore employees who
park cars and deliver luggage to guest rooms
have to share their TIPS with management??
Gee Mirage8, don't you know what juice is? They don't have to share with management -- they're related.