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Tuesday, Aug. 3, 2010 | 6:06 p.m.
Sun archives
- Is a wave of county firefighter retirements on the horizon? (6-25-2010)
- Rory Reid says firefighters union resorting to ‘scare tactic’ with ad (6-15-2010)
- County considers plan to privatize airport firefighting force (6-11-2010)
- New plan to curtail Clark County firefighter overtime (6-5-2010)
- Staffing shuffle would cut county Fire Department overtime (5-20-2010)
- Las Vegas, Clark County collaborate to limit firefighter overtime (4-27-2010)
- Fire union resists move to increase its ranks, reduce overtime costs (4-16-2010)
- Has fire union support become a campaign curse? (4-15-2010)
- ‘Boot drive’ OT for individual firefighters is unknown (4-4-2010)
- Practice of on-duty firefighters raising money for charity questioned (3-31-2010)
- Fire union goal: Silence Sisolak (3-19-2010)
- Las Vegas firefighters burn up more sick time than other city employees (3-14-2010)
- Clark County firefighters profit from sick leave policy (3-7-2010)
- ‘Longevity pay’ costs millions in county (12-10-2009)
- Firefighters feeling budget backlash (5-28-2009)
- County, fire union break ice with heated words (5-7-2009)
- Firefighters have perks to give back, if they wanted to (4-29-2009)
Stopping short of saying the firefighters’ union is lying, Rory Reid fired back at the union’s latest allegation that the county has ignored some $10 million in firefighter concessions.
In fact, Reid said Tuesday afternoon, the union’s proposals — purportedly offered during closed-door sessions with county contract negotiators — does nothing to reduce firefighter salaries but would greatly endanger the public.
The union says its ideas would result in an average hit of $8,600 in concessions per union member. Union chief Ryan Beaman could not be reached for comment.
One of the union’s suggestions—from a press release stating that contract talks with the county were at an impasse — is to discontinue the fire department’s paramedic “school,” which trains county firefighters as well as firefighters from neighboring jurisdictions.
“It is pretty hypocritical to accuse me of being unconcerned about public safety while at the same time proposing we suspend our paramedic program,” Reid said.
A week ago the union accused him of endangering the public because county administrators took a piece of heavy rescue equipment out of service, relying upon a mutual aid agreement with Las Vegas Fire and Rescue to take over those heavy rescue calls.
County firefighters, in fact, respond to relatively few fires. In 2009, 83 percent of their calls were paramedic or emergency medical system calls; 7 percent were fires; and 10 percent were “other.”
In response to the union’s press release, County Manager Virginia Valentine sent a memo to all seven county commissioners, saying the union’s “statements about the cost savings of their proposal are factually inaccurate.”
“The truth is,” she wrote, “aside from two relatively small concessions, the union’s proposal offers only temporary and one-time deferrals to certain wage and benefit components of the contract that are a fraction of the savings claimed in the press release.”
Here are the union points, and the county’s counterpoint:
* Freezing step increases one year would save $1.65 million. The county said 70 percent of the county’s firefighters have already reached their maximum step level, so it would only effect newer firefighters. And it would only be for one year.
* Suspending the paramedic school would save $1.4 million. Doing this would endanger the public because 83 percent of the county’s calls are paramedic related.
* Deviating from the engineer exam schedule would save $1.2 million. The union threatened legal action earlier this year when the county said it wanted to do this. The county backed down and did things administratively to increase the number of engineers available, which will decrease overtime payments. Because of those moves, the county said it can now wait until next year to do the engineer exam.
* The union said it would define “extensive sick leave to result in potential loss of sick leave,” saving $757,399. The county said that means the union is admitting it has a problem with firefighter abuse of the sick-leave system. Commissioner Steve Sisolak has already said that when negotiations end, he wants an audit of firefighter sick leave, because he believes they are “gaming” the sick-leave system to collect more overtime payments.
* A one-year reduction in contributions to the union’s health insurance trust would save the county $747,000. The county points out that the county currently contributes $14,616 per year on average to each firefighter for health insurance. A reduction of about $900 would drop that to $13,716. That compares to the police officer average of $8,572; and the regular county employee average of $7,800.
“None of these are long-term savings, which is what we have to have,” Sisolak said Tuesday. “And none of these are concessions, in my mind. Concessions cost you something, you give up something. What are they giving up here? Where do they come up with this $8,600?”
Reid said he wants the union to “step up to the plate” like other county unions have done. The county has laid off hundreds and well over 1,000 positions remain unfilled as it works to balance its budget in lieu of still-decreasing tax revenues.
“And all we’re asking is for simple fairness, to do what other unions have done and what other employees have done,” Reid said. “We’ve frozen positions, demoted employees and reduced wages. In that context, I think firefighters should participate as well.”
If negotiations go to an arbitration, a new contract might not be ratified until as late as January 2011, Sisolak estimated.
Firefighters are parasites. Over paid lazy goverment union trash. Privatize NOW!
The Fire Fighters and their unions are a joke.Makes no difference the state will make the concessions for them and they'll be deep.Putnam County in NY got so out of hand with their police Department,their pensions and enormous overtime...they desolved the entire police force and turned those services over to the state police who were doing nothing anyway. Not to say they would desolve the Fire Dept. but clearly cuts,very deep cuts will be made.
"Firefighters are parasites. Over paid lazy goverment union trash. Privatize NOW!"
Yes, Privatize firefighters right now. allow the public to buy specific "fire and emergency" insurance. If you need to call 911, have your credit card ready. If you can't pay, then your house burns. I like it.....
It's the libertarian way...
Is it too late to fire all these union firefighters?
They are a heavy burden on taxpayers, and they seem to continue to demand huge salaries and pensions and, well , the list is long.
Fire them all and get a contractor.
The public is now finding out what regular government employees have known for a long time; firefighters game overtime; they campaign for politicans for favors; and their contracts are too lucrative. But management, nor the public, wanted to listen. Well... now you know too. Next time... listen to some of those complaints.
And Rory Reid's "tough talk" is too little, too late. Rory, you should have picked up your big stick ten years ago. You don't get my vote for GOV.
I have to agree with Nick on this one. Paid wayyyyy too much.
We all take risks with the careers we choose. It's not like the risk was suddenly forced upon the firefighters/cooks.
and I am not usually the "privatize" type but this group is so morally bankcrupt and worthless we need to do something. Surely we could find some decent citizens willing to work for a fair wage to protect us. The Fire Fighters are the worst example of goverment employees exploiting the public.
Privatization is our only hope. Until then debt grows and the kids will pay.
If their skills are that vaulable, how do we have so many quality volunteer fire stations across the nation. Many of you may not know that the majority of fire departments in the US are voluteer. And they work just fine.
The Commonissioners will have to fix this MESS !!! The Firemen are over paid and should have to wait till they are 62 years old to get a PENSION.. after only 20 Years that is way to EARLY !!!
Ronster,
Please name ONE MAJOR CITY that has an all Volunteer Fire Department. Also please state back up facts for your statement that the majority of the fire departments in the U.S. are all volunteer.
Sounds like the union is makeing the rules not the Gov.
The unions picket casinos why not picket the union.
Just for the starters, I am not County employee, I am not unemployed and I have nothing against firefighters. However, this just went too far. I never thought that I would agree with the comments above but I have to. Although it may not sound too nice, the description "parasite" is right on target. The selfishness and greed working in Clark County fire department is beyond beliefs.
All we hear is "we are saving lives, our job is dangerous, it is physically demanding, wait when something happens to you"etc" You know what? This is what you are paid for. This is what you signed for so, stop whining about it. What about those in Iraq and Afghanistan making fraction of firefighters salaries while getting shot at. Sure, it is their job too but do not think you are the only one helping people out. Honestly, most of you are not in this line of job to help your fellow citizens, you are doing it because it is a good job and I don't have problem with it"everyone needs to make living. But this is simply outrageous.
I don't hear doctors whining about their demanding jobs (you want to see a stressful job? See UMC trauma unit on Friday night), I don't hear nurses about cleaning vomit and poo after their patients, I don't hear cops whining as much as you do. I don't hear complaint from guys diging trenches in 110 degree weather. Most of you have HS education at the best and you are blessed with jobs that pay as much as top executive jobs in government. Obviously, it is still not enough for you; greed is the order of the day. You want to help your community? Stop draining your employer (County) and get with the program. You are helping your fellow citizens? Really? Then help them and quit being so selfish.
Let me run some number through your sensitive whining heads. According to of Bureau of Labor Statistics, in June 2010, Nevada was 51st in unemployment. That's right, 51st with a rate of 14.2% "and you are complaining about not making enough? You can't be serious. Go down to unemployment center and tell the people there how hard your life is.
When I first learned about this issue, I though the County Commissioners (mainly Steve Sisolak) were unfair to firefighter. Now, after doing my homework, I understand completely. I strongly suggest visiting Transparent Nevada website where you can see salaries of every County, City or State employee. When you see fire department, it will make you ill. In the time that every one of us should help our State, many County firefighters making 40, 50, 60 thousand in overtime alone. No, this is not typo. See for yourself.
If you think I am bitter and envious, you are wrong. I am all for decent salary for hard working people but enough is enough. The only people you are helping " is yourself. The only help you provide..is that of emptying Clark County desperately low funds. And you, Steve Sisolak, you are my hero. Anyone wants to argue and make reasonable justification? I am ready.
@vegaslee
Here's a source for my statement that most fire departments in the US are volunteer (about 70%).
http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/statistics/depar...
As to your request for ONE MAJOR CITY... the skill set is the same buddy... and BTW... 90% of the fire calls in this valley are medical... and that takes EMS skill. And I'm positive yours is no more vaulable than the paramedics at AMR.
@MikeV
Some of the best points made on this subject in a long, long time.
Follow San Jose Caifornias lead and start laying off fire fighters. They would not take a cut so the county laid them. Vegas needs to do the same!
Thieves, everyone of them. And 90% of them go to the same church, which pretty much tells ya what THAT church is all about. And Mr. Reid you're just like your father you don't do anything til it makes you look good for a vote, besides you go to the same church as the thieves so you're all in it together, you're not fooling anyone.
@fedup2here
I can't back you 100% on the figures, cuz I just don't know the specifics... but I know it's a significant amount. Some FF live in St. George and commute into the valley... how many other government positions are that lucrative.
ronster,
As your own source quotes, volunteers only cover 39% of the population as far as service. They don't have the skills or knowledge to work in high rise or high population areas. Volunteers are used in highly rural areas only. You have a higher number of Volunteers taking care of the smaller part of the number of people.
I know some of the trainers for AMR. You should meet them and talk to them. You would think twice about their skills and most of them want out. Many of them make less then some people working fast food. Is that really who you want saving your life?
I will be the first to agree that the Firefighters Union here has got way out of hand but there is no way a Volunteer department could take care of the needs of Las Vegas and Clark County.
@vegaslee
Your response was EXACTLY what I expected. I've made my point very well. Look you can go on believing that line of bull if you want... I know differently first hand. Bottom line, these guys have been running up their costs since 911 and the public, management, and politicans did nothing to stop it. And now the service is overvalued and their costs must come down.
@vegaslee
I have more respect for the hard working medics at AMR than you do. I know them very well, thank you.
Yawn... same story different hour. Debating this here is about as productive as it seems the negotiations between the county and the union is. He said/she said. All I am pretty sure of is that every perk/pay/incentive/vacation day/sick hours/etc was given to the firefighters by the very same people now trying to take them away. I know this is pie in the sky but the county just needs lay it out as 'this is what we need or else' and then let the union give it up, or else. Time to move on and start working on next year's budget woes.
Yes, fire the firefighters - bring in the throngs of qualified people that are chomping at the bit to take these qualified positions. Oh wait, anyone can carry a hose, right? Seriously, are you going to propose that the illegals handing out porn on the strip are capable of fulfilling the jobs? Which of you complainers are filling out your resume at this time to step up and do something other than whine endlessly? It is very easy and lazy to disrespect those in a position you will never be able to fill - but then what else would expect from the group that post on this site.
Reid doesn't want to save money by getting rid of the Paramedic Program, that City Fire Department, Henderson Fire Departments, or the Community College can take over. Instead he shuts down the Heavy Rescue, Hazardous Material Team, and other Rescues, and Fire Apparatus that are responsible for saving lives. We are loosing Speciality Trained Teams, that the County has invested millions on training and equipment. I don't get it!
Get rid of the Private Ambulance Companies! County & City Fire Departments can take care of EMS, just like the Henderson Fire Department, and many others in United States. This will bring a lot of money back into the County & Cities budget, instead of AMR shareholders pockets. ( I wish I could see all the shareholders names.) Hire enough Firefighters to stop overtime, but give them enough resources to ensure the publics safety. I know this will increase the Counties & Cities budget by millions, but at least no one will be jealous of Firefighters making too much money. THIS IS ALL ABOUT FIREFIGHTERS MAKING TOO MUCH MONEY! No one was upset with Firefighters when they were all making under six figures. No one cried when they saw them in the gym working out, or at the grocery store buying food for their 24 hour shift.
Hallelujah Ronster. That's all I can say.
By the way, I haven't seen anyone making logical, sound justification of raping County piggy bank yet.
Yeah, we all got it; it is a hard work but there are many others working for the public good. I must have my values wrong because I think greed was not one of them. I tend to agree that the volunteer only department wouldn't be the best choice and I know it takes some skills to be paramedic but it is not a rocket science either.
I don't mean to be disrespectful, and I respect those risking their lives for saving others but anyone with high school education can learn to be a firefighter and understand the basics of pre-hospital and trauma care.
Sure, the proper and timely first response save lives but the skilled "repairs" are done at the trauma unit by people with medical degrees i.e. doctors ... and most of time, they don't even get thank you, while fire department stands on a pedestal.
@MikeV
I agree, an area our size can't have an all volunteer fire department. But unlike my other friend here, you understand that I was making a point about the VAULE of their service.
Fire training is physically demanding and for a high school graduate the classroom material is challenging. But there are PLENTY of folks who could meet the challenge. I of course am not one of them.... but there are plenty of others.
Look it takes a WHOLE LOT to turn the public against firefighters in any town (the fire boot was the only donation that felt safe for a long time, still does). But we must admit the cost of fire service in the valley is out of control, and will continue to grow worse without some controls.
Why is the county even negotiating. 14% unemployment, and the high school educated firemen want to raise their 6 digit incomes even more. I don't begrudge anybody a decent living, but where will the buck stop. $200,000, $300,000...College educated county employees with years on the job, fall far short of these guys when it comes to making money. How much is enough. Any fireman will tell you that they make about $22 an hour. Thats about $48,000 a year. Somewhere in the county bookeeping dept. there throwing another $100,000 in for each fireman a year. No wonder Joe taxpayer is having a fit paying for these guys, watching them park their boats in the driveway, and washing their big suv's, with the get out of a ticket firefighter plates. Yes, the average private sector worker, and gov. worker are jealous of all that money. Just one overtime day is worth $1000 pay to a fireman. If you would max out each fireman to $80,000 a year, they still would line up for the job, quality people to. But as gov. employees we will still raise their pay because we need re elected. We have good people filling the fireman ranks, but not that good. If they could do an appendix operation, or win a legal battle in a courtroom, then I would say pay them. But just cruising to an accident 85% percent of the time, pulling out the gurney, and then passing off transport to the private guys, well, how about matching their pay to the private service, they seem well within their budget.
Get rid of the Private Ambulance Companies! County & City Fire Departments can take care of EMS, just like the Henderson Fire Department, and many others in United States. This will bring a lot of money back into the County & Cities budget, instead of AMR shareholders pockets. ( I wish I could see all the shareholders names.) Please don't shut down resources, because they have to be staffed by overtime personnel. Hire enough Firefighters to stop overtime, but give them enough resources to ensure the publics safety. I know this will increase the Counties & Cities budget by millions, but at least no one will be jealous of Firefighters making too much money. THIS IS ALL ABOUT FIREFIGHTERS MAKING TOO MUCH MONEY! No one was upset with Firefighters when they were all making under six figures. No one cried when they saw them in the gym working out, or at the grocery store buying food for their 24 hour shift. HIRE ENOUGH FIREFIGHTERS TO STOP OVERTIME, AND LET US DO OUR JOB!
If you Haters don't want to see Firefighters making over six figures, tell Reid to hire enough Firefighters to stop overtime. Reduce the hours of Firefighters from 350 plus hours a month to their regular 240 hours, unlike many of you 160 hours, and none of them will make over six figures. Everyones taxes will double to pay for the extra benefits and retirements, but none of them will make the big $$$.
If a kid at Burger King worked the hours of some of these Firefighters, he would be making close to six figures!
I know I get paid for those three hours of broken sleep, and I should feel guilty for getting paid. I still have to pay for my baby sitter who is sleeping 8 hours a night at my house, while I am at work.
Dan,
It's 240 hours a month, unlike your 160 with your hour lunch break everyday.
@Ronster
I surely got your point and I see that many did not. What can I say, you are right, and I guess we got some people p%@$#d here. Lol.
Now it's "haters"? You gotta be kidding. You (firefighter) got it all wrong. 350 hours of work...(which I doubt) but even if, you surely don't mind the overtime do you?. We are back to whining. Well, you know the saying, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen....or should I say get out of the firehouse? Oh, and I can only imagine how hard it must be to have babysitter EVERYDAY...while other people working their a@# off but can't afford one.
This is not about "hating" and it never was. I can care less what others make but I care about our State and it makes me (and many other) sick to see how our fire departments are shamelessly raping County resources while the economy is down and while 14% is unemployed. It takes a real "character" to whine about being underpaid when so many are without jobs.
And, I should probably apologize too, because it looks like no one else but firefighters does overtime. I am sure that those fighting for our country in Iraq and Afghanistan have 8 hour shifts and I guess they can stop in the middle of a battle because their "shift" just ended or perhaps they can spend half of their shift in 24hr fitness and do some shopping in Albertsons...
MikeV, well stated. I can only agree.
As stated, just take a look at transparentnevada. It is upsetting seeing the doctors (medical examiner's), lawyers (district attorney's), CEO's (county managers) and numerous others buried under piles of firefighters. It is a huge strain and quite frankly, sickening.
I started testing in 1991, and got an Associate Degree in Fire Science, EMT Intermediate, and I was in my First Semester of Paramedic School when I got hired, after testing for seven years. I was thinking I would be making$40K, and I was fine with that. I could have went to school for something else to make more money or use my Fathers "Juice" to get a job on the Strip as a dealer making 100K.
It's crazy how fast Southern Nevada grew. If the County would have hired enough personnel to fill all the new Fire Stations, Sick and Vacation openings, we wouldn't have made an average $30K a year with Overtime, and this story would have never made it online. All of the Tax Payers, would be spending twice as much on all the extra personnel, but no one would be upset about Firefighters income.
I get upset when people say we are stealing from the County and we should be ashamed of ourselves.
I loved my job when I was making $40k, and I will continue to love what I do. I know I have made a difference in people lives, and a few people are here today because of my training as a Firefighter/Paramedic.
It is a shame that the County has been saving million of dollars making Firefighters work Overtime, instead of hiring more of them. Now, we are the "Bad Guys".
Danny Ganier FIRE BATT CHF $643,511.82
Floyd Walch FIRE CAPTAIN $535,754.46
Kevin Chapman DEPUTY FIRE CHIEF $392,563.79
Gary Dudley FIRE FIGHTER II (J) $388,271.15
Steven La Sky FIRE FIGHTER II $366,692.57
Gina Geldbach Hall FIRE BATT CHF $333,430.86
Donald O'Shaughnessy FIRE BATT CHF $306,318.02
Martin Vohwinkel FIRE CAPTAIN $297,098.55
Kelly Mcnamara FIRE ENR $292,737.53
Michael Evans FIRE CAPT LAUGHLIN $286,060.56
Thomas Ciciliano FIRE CAPT LAUGHLIN $284,468.63
Leroy Mayorga FIRE CAPT LAUGHLIN $282,652.35
Eddie Beaman FIRE CAPTAIN $280,719.51
Shawn Williams FIRE CAPT LAUGHLIN $280,326.96
Leo Durkin FIRE CAPTAIN $276,873.89
Jose Morales FIRE CAPTAIN $276,179.39
Jeff Tidwell FIRE BATT CHF $275,014.97
L Taggard FIRE CAPTAIN $274,846.22
Eric Poleski FIRE CAPTAIN $274,557.30
Linda Schweich FIRE ENGR JEAN $273,390.98
Steven Smith FIRE CHIEF $272,765.39
Richard Mckinnis FIRE CAPTAIN $271,479.85
Richard Decosta FIRE FIGHTER II (L) $270,385.62
Jon Klassen FIRE BATT CHF $269,414.16
Sam Centofante FIRE FIGHTER II (L) $267,577.41
John Stutzman FIRE ENGR LAUGHLIN $265,056.03
Anthony Bell FIRE CAPTAIN $264,978.18
Denell Hoggard FIRE INVESTIGATOR I $264,208.35
John Steinbeck FIRE CAPTAIN $264,082.49
Luis Rodriguez FIRE ENGR LAUGHLIN $262,942.38
Timothy Kjenstad FIRE CAPTAIN $262,908.52
Steven Hetterscheidt FIRE CAPTAIN $259,340.17
Kenneth Morgan FIRE BATT CHF $259,026.89
Gary Sepich DEPUTY FIRE CHIEF $258,925.38
Leslie Lefevre FIRE ENGR LAUGHLIN $258,179.66
Kenneth Jones FIRE ENR $256,802.32
Stephen Ratigan SR DEPUTY FIRE CHIEF $255,267.78
Rick Pearson FIRE FIGHTER II (L) $254,494.94
Michael Atchley FIRE CAPTAIN $254,492.46
Albert Ferguson FIRE CAPTAIN $253,987.39
Michael Holmes FIRE CAPTAIN $252,903.21
David Lloyd FIRE CAPTAIN $251,929.20
Roger Brooks FIRE CAPTAIN $251,853.83
Philip Ernst FIRE ENGR LAUGHLIN $248,693.02
Gregory Cassell FIRE BATT CHF $247,483.97
James Johnson FIRE ENR $247,112.88
Scott Straily FIRE CAPTAIN $247,047.82
William Hill FIRE ENR $246,491.08
Malcolm Turner FIRE FIGHTER II (L) $246,234.64
Christopher Grinder FIRE FIGHTER II (L) $246,013.12
Michael Guy FIRE FIGHTER II (L) $245,919.93
John Grana FIRE CAPTAIN $245,481.70
Renee Dillingham FIRE BATT CHF $244,852.42
Michael Elliott FIRE CAPTAIN $244,587.03
Clark Le Fevre FIRE FIGHTER II $244,107.33
Mark Stephenson FIRE ENGR LAUGHLIN $243,296.96
Jason Senior FIRE CAPTAIN $242,963.84
Sal Solis FIRE CAPTAIN $241,604.71
Kage Snyder FIRE CAPTAIN $241,558.08
Nicholas Ganski FIRE FIGHTER II (L) $241,387.78
Lorin Noorda FIRE ENR $241,165.28
Steven Land FIRE ENR $240,706.59
Kevin Stengel FIRE ENR $238,986.60
Dennis Snider FIRE CAPT LAUGHLIN $238,570.00
Gary Byrd FIRE ENGR LAUGHLIN $238,425.51
Steven Webster FIRE CAPTAIN $237,592.14
Roy Session FIRE BATT CHF $237,407.14
The list goes on and on. See for yourself.
http://transparentnevada.com/salaries/20...
Working in EMS in Las Vegas for 9 years now. I tried to get into fire department but Failed. I started in EMS as a Volunteer in a rural area in the Clark County area. Someone said that higher payed CCFD or LVFD fire fighters would give better care. The care that I give is deffinately not motivated by my pay. I take great pride knowing I have helped someone hopefully survive whatever they called EMS for. I took my EMT class right along side some that continued on to the fire department. Same schooling same national standards. When I get a call I am not raised from sleep or taken away from my duties at a station. I am in my truck ready to go. The care I give goes beyond the scene of the call, I don't get to go back to my station. I stay in my truck where with 112 degree heat the AC does not help much. I park in a shady spot hoping for rest. Private ambulance transports 250 plus patients per day. Yet I don't receive any incentive for the fraction I transport. I take great pride in my job. I don't show up in a tshirt and shorts I am in shirt, long pants. Representing my company. And yes that uniform can get very warm as the day goes on. My instructor told me that if I wanted to make money in EMS I should go to the Fire Department. My motivation was and is people. Helping People. Saving lives. Hopefully, Making a difference. That is my motivation and many in private ambulance. It's about the medicine not money.
I also work for AMR and I'm insulted by someone that would compare me to a fastfood worker. Yes, I agree that there are many at AMR/Medicwest that have very ver litle professionalism, however, I'm not in that griup!! I used to work as a firefighter/paramedic in the east and was laid off. I came to Vegas hoping to gain employment with a fire agency but it seems like the wrong time. Anyway my point is that anyone who degrades an AMR employee should think twice as you are only making yourself sound bad.. We work together on a daily baisis. I have complete respect for all fire departments, I actually have more expierience than many that I see onscene with both fires and ems, so to be insulted on this post kills me. Privitizing the fire department is not the answer to all who think that would be an option..
Oh yea, I'm sick of fat disgusting slobs in the Valley. You know who you are. Have some self respect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rory...
wake the eff up pal...
you are behind in the polls...
way behind...
and yet...
these community destroying firemen are handing you a path to victory...
got that rory...
a path to victory...
you still can win the governor's race...
here's how...
grow a damn spine...
take the hardest possible stance you can...
and go public with it...
be vocal vocal vocal...
threaten to privatize the ambulance services...
threaten to outsource everything...
got that pal...
bottom line...
no one...
and i mean no one...
no one...
got that rory...
NO ONE...
wants to see community destroying firemen making over 100k...
especially in these tough economic times...
NO ONE...
got that pal...
the public is crying out for you to crush these clowns...
crush them...
and you become governor...
plain and simple...
trying to be diplomatic will get you no where...
that has been proven...
that is why you are behind so far in the polls son...
rory...
listen to your uncle birdie...
crush these community destroyers!!!
hey info...
every time i read that list...
i throw up in my mouth...
remember this boys and girls...
never ever ever vote for the following firemen loving commissioners again...
tom collins...
chris giunchigliani...
never again...
these clowns just don't seem to care about clark county tax payers...
never ever ever again!!!
FIRE THEM ALL! Mesa, Az did it years ago and it worked out great for them. There's no reason these guys should make as much as they do. Our firefighters are paid in the top 5% of the country and our teachers are in the bottom 10% hmmmm.
START THE ROOKIE FIREFIGHTERS AT $25,000 PER YEAR INSTEAD OF $51,000 PER YEAR FOR "PAID TRAINING". LET THEM INCREMENTALLY INCREASE THEIR SALARY JUST LIKE ALL OTHER COUNTY EMPLOYEES HAVE BEEN OVER THE LAST 13 YEARS!
lasvegas, WOW!!!! You are my new personal hero!
You work 240 hours a month without eating or sleeping, outstanding!
Too bad it's all BS.
You get paid to sleep, eat, wax your truck at work, go to the gym and grocery shop.
You sir are a pompous, ignorant example of what is wrong with the CCFD.
You belittle AMR employees, fast food workers and anybody who doesn't worship you, yet you still, amazingly, defend your thoughts and ideas.
MikeV..I hope you run for Commissioner..
Thank you getalife. I'd sure like to get paid to sleep, work out and shop at the grocery store in the company car and then call it "work." It's about time we get a handle on this situation. I just don't believe, with the exception of Sisolak, our elected officials have the cajones to declare bankruptcy and void the contracts. I guess we'll have to wait a little while longer until things get worse.
And Mike V I'll be glad to help you in your campaign for county commish.
If any of y'all would like to get together and peacefully demonstrate your displeasure with the overpaid firefighters by demonstrating in front of their union hall one day please email to theyworkforus@yahoo.com
On a second thought, I probably will (run for the County Commission). And just so you know, you who got all upset and defensive, no one said that being a firefighter was easy. No one said that you are all bad but things need to change.
Everyone wants a piece of (County) pie but the pie is gone now. It has been gone for a while. See, no one would say a word if we were in early 2000's when the economy was great. But things changed and you have to change with it. Take it or leave it.
The problem will never be resolved until NRS288 (http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/NRS-288.h...) is re-written and the requirement that local governments recognize unions is removed. It should be pointed out that the State has no such requirement placed upon it.
Government check was late again this month, huh, Birdie? You can tell by the increased squeal in your whining...
to boftx: Exactly!
If the county commission and the fire department did it right, they could take care of many issues.
County needs to hire the vacant positions. They are around 300+ short fire fighters. Work to put 300 folks to work, I am all for that! Coming up to full staffing would drop those W-2's immediately and everything would be back to a wage everyone could deal with. Why do the commissioners not give the go ahead for this?
CCFD union could work with coming up with a staffing plan that would allow those specialty units to stay in service, but you are truly showing the valley that it is all about you and not about the citizens you serve. If you really thought those specialty units were needed, you would do what it took to serve the public. The language in your contract is horrible when it comes to your minimum staffing. You left your administration with nothing else to do but shut down those units. YOU WERE THE CAUSE OF THIS.
As far as your staffing of ambulances. Take those extra folks off those ambulances and staff a couple of other engines that could assist with covering the medical calls and put the rescues away. The fact that you are the only department that promotes the position of engineer on the rescues is a complete joke! Put them to work driving an engine, which is far more useful than just the rescue units.
The fact that you have open promotions because you do not have a list to pull from is a joke too! This also drives up the W-2's. Why would you not want to run a test and promote those positions? Certainly those that would are eligible to test would be in favor for this. Yes I get the fact that you cannot spring a test on the folks eligible, however, they should have been studying already if they really wanted the position and you should have been able to predict that you were going to be short.
Your responses should also be adjusted. You do not need to be running every call and standing around waiting for the privates. You should be reprioritizing your dispatches to respond to only the most critical of calls. AMR and Medicwest can do just fine on all alpha and bravo calls. You truly would be available more calls you are needed on and could adjust your staffing accordingly.
Consolidate with the other departments with a fire commissioner that oversees the fire chief and how they are running the department. Have your 3 boroughs - Vegas, North Vegas, Henderson and Boulder City combined. It would be far easier to do brownouts with a large department from day to day based on your staffing level and still provide great coverage. There would be training centers in every area and you would not have to go out of service and leave districts for training. In fact, you could drop to 3 man units like many years ago and just add another unit or two to a dispatch to get the required manpower to the scene. In addition to doing all of this, put stricter guidelines in the franchise agreements that Medicwest and AMR would have to meet.
Right now you are all your own worst enemy! I appreciate and respect the jobs that all of you do, however, everyone is having to cut back and make consolidations. San Jose fire just laid off 250 firefighters. This is not an uncommon practice anymore. When you want to truly work together, county commission included, you might be able to get resolve on a lot of these issues. But until you do that, the only perception the public is going to have is that you are out for yourselves and at this point, can you blame them?
Mike V. Just email me at the address I gave and I'll be glad to help you out if you're serious.
theyworkforus@yahoo.com
Ripit, intelligent posting normally get bashed; yours is genius. Good job.
Investigate the OT and if found suspicious fire those involved. Tell the union that you will pay X amount per hour and if they don't like it then they can quit. And please give me a break there is no way that any firefighter, captain, chief or any other person thats in that department is worth anymore than 100,000 per year....with OT
Rory and his colleagues on the commission created, nurtured, and fed the political monster known as the FF's union. They signed off on contracts that were ridiculous even when the economy was good. The commissioner's engendered the very sense of entitlement that continues to drive this organized theft.
Now, because of this past history of substantial legalized bribery, the County is going down in flames. To make matters even better, Rory (and the others) can't even fend off the attacks made by their own wicked creation.
How people can think that Rory is fit to be governor after this is amazing to me. There is no possible way that Rory can stand up to the powerful special interests in his own party (like the public sector unions) when that party runs the whole government.
I don't understand the economics of some who say the County should hire more firefighters.My meager economic brain tells me that would cost more, increasing a already cash strapped budget with more salaries and benefits to pay out..I don't know of any city/county govt across america that is suggesting doing this. They are, like most private companies and hospitals, doing more with less..If you firefighters are true to your word in wanting to just help the public/people..then a little modest paycut would not even enter your consciousness..You all(firefighters) must know that all across the country fire depts are going through the same thing..We appreciate the job that you do but exulting yourselves over others like AMR and calling for their demise, does nothing but put you in a ever increasing dimishing light..Must the public take their disgust to the streets to show you all(firefighters) that you must comply in good faith. "Do the right thing"
To ReasonRules:
Honestly, after having this genius (Jimmy G.)as our Governor, anyone including Carrot Top can fill this position. Just kidding.
RtK540--I respectfully disagree.Working for a private company myself, the benefit package is the most fought over in any negotiation..If the terms remain the same, the people that you hire will gain the same benefits of those with tenure in time..Your arguement might hold water over the short term..Over the long haul it does not make finacial sense..What companies do is re-organize, determine what your absolute priorites are, which require greater resources,which we can do without, and work within your budget..Thats what I'm saying about doing more with less..It's a basic economic principle..
Gosh, I must have read all the posts here...I am not for hiring hundreds of more firefighters and surely not for the OT. If you read all the posts here and combine some of the great ideas, we have a solution. It is not that hard, it really isn't; some of the posts here suggested some simple and sound ideas.
If you (firefighters)really want to help, you need to get used to a slightly smaller paycheck. I (State employee)agreed to $15k pay cut because I know our department just doesn't have it...
The problem is, however in the union. It looks to me no matter what we do, Mr. Pintero is not going to like it. (reference to union character from a movie. I think there is a word for it: extortion. As someone suggested above, the clause in NRS requiring County to work with unions needs to go away. Just a thought...
Mike V--Thanks for your sacrafice..Hopefully your fairing well..The union has to fight for every union member regardless of the importance of function, so of course every member will say how important their function is..I don't know what the NRS you are referring to is, so you will have to fill me in..I'm in favor of open discussions on building binding contracts.We need clauses that in time of finacial hardship, the contract can be revisited and renegotiated..If this were in place, we wouldn't be in the situation we're in now.
Ripit16, You're absolutely right about the open positions. The County needs to fill those positions, it would create jobs and it would lower the total compensation for all the FFs. You ask why, its simple, it's cheaper to pay 1 person to do the work of 2.
You mention minimum manning, but the FF's union doesn't come up with staffing plans. You've taken issues that have multiple causes and facets and tried to attribute blame in one area, the union. The bottom line is this... when it comes to hiring and staffing, the County has all the responsibility, and makes all the decisions.
One April 27, Rory announced with Oscar that they would be directing staff to consider consolidating services. In case you missed it, the article is here...
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/apr...
So, Chief Smith was ordered to prepare a plan to do just this, a plan was submitted to the County, and the County decided to cut (AKA consolidate) two of the specialty units. To date there has been 7 units cut on the CCFD, HazMat 24, Rescue 24, Heavy Rescue 21, Rescue 21, Truck 76, Mobile Air Unit 14, Water Tender Unit 19, and 3 EMS Supervisiors (the only 3), plus various other positions.
Your idea about regional training centers is already in place. Each of those separate departments has a training center in their respective area. The only time units from another dept cross jurisdiction to train is almost exclusively during multi-department training events, which are only to simulate the largest of incidents and only occur every blue moon. Most daily training is done in-service, meaning the unit is able to respond to emergencies with a minimal increase to responses. Just like when we're shopping, cooking, writing reports, training, etc... we drop whatever we're doing and respond to whatever the emergency is as quickly and as safely as possible.
Your suggestion about stricter franchise agreements is a nice idea, but simply won't happen. AMR and Medicwest can't comply with the existing agreement. There are regular occurrences, when they don't get on scene in the necessary time, as well as sometimes when they simply say they can't respond... they don't have any available units. Fortunately, because of our dual response system, the Fire Dept responds and stabilizes the patient and if there is no available transport unit, the Fire dept transports if necessary. This is after the latest current Franchise agreement's requirements were relaxed from the previous version, because the earlier version was causing the ambulance companies too many violation fees and was too hard to meet due to their profit vs performance model so they lobbied to have it relaxed. And it was. And they still regularly fail to meet its terms.
Ripit, since you brought up minimum manning and having only 3 FFs on a unit there is a report recently released by the US Dept of Commerce's NIST that specifically talks about these issues and the relationship between staffing and effectiveness. The article can be reviewed here...
http://www.nist.gov/bfrl/fire_research/r...
If the County tells the Union we need 20 million in concessions, and the Union is able to offer concessions equal to that amount and yet my base wage is not affected than isn't that still a savings of 20 million?
But It sure seems like the only thing that certain people will settle for is a direct reduction in pay. Cost savings is cost savings, correct?
I'm a topped out FF, my hourly rate is $26/hr. I honestly don't think my rate is too much.
OT? Please, take it all away. Dear County, Please hire enough FFs so that OT goes away.
Staffing and hiring is solely the responsibility of the County.
Wanna know how important hiring is? The County limited the new hiring list to the first 1000 applicants only. Know how long that took to get the first 1000? A few hours. Are there more qualified potential applicant that didn't make the list? Yup, I run calls with them daily and for one reason or another they didn't get on the list. If putting an end to OT, and reducing the high total compensation of some of the FFs were truly of paramount importance to the County don't you think the County would take another 1000, or 2000? Why not create the largest pool possible? Then you could take the best of the best candidates. Sure there is a associated HR cost of vetting so many applicants, but maybe there's actually a little politics at play too.
You all need to get life or a job. A bunch of ignorant individuals brain washed by the media ( Joe ) ........
Hey Birdie! How is my best buddy!?.
Your pal $kip$ter!!!
I hope everyone who is posting here is also calling their govt representatives as well.
Make your voices heard. It is tha taxpayers who pay for this. So it should be the taxpayers who decide what we are willing to pay for each position.
Its time to be heard.
Not held hostage by these unions.
Over a $100k per year for a ff is a joke. Not only that, the taxpayer then has to support their retirement,and their benefits. Enough is enough.
unsilent, your like a broken record. FFs base pay is less than $100K, but you are well aware of this fact. It is simply due to OT that the total compensation is so high for some individuals. But we've discussed this half a dozen times or more.
The solution is simple, if you are so disgusted, demand your govt representative hire more FFs, so OT is eliminated and FF total compensation would be dramatically reduced.
Speaking of govt reps, did you see Sisolak on Face to Face tonight? What a nincompoop.
He was pounding on his chest about why doesn't the Union save the tax payers money and opt to skip the fact finding stage and proceed directly to arbitration. Only to find out on air that the Union did...Ooops... apparently Sisolak was too busy preparing his spin and not researching the facts.
The Union did propose exactly that, but Sisolak didn't take the time to find out the facts before he went on tv and make his typical uninformed accusations. Kinda like when he signed the proclamation agreeing to the FFs doing the boot drive, only to later insist that he didn't know it was on duty. Ha, what a buffoon.
The "salary" reported on the transparent nevada website, includes base pay, OT, benefits, insurance, premium pay, specialty pay, clothing allowance, etc.. they also factor in the workers comp payout for someone that has a career ending medical condition, like cancer, heart/lung conditions, etc..
I don't remember what Chief Ganier's hourly rate was, but it was proportional to the other ranks. Chief Ganier and many of the top earners listed on that website had career ending medical condition obtained on the job. The medical compensation for that condition was added by transparent nevada to the "salary", then those 640K "salaries" are used in the "average". Don't believe everything you read.
I make $26/hr. It's a fact, It's in the FF contract, in B/W
Here's a couple hourly rates for comparison...
Hourly rate for a CCFD Firefighter is $17-26/hour
Hourly rate for a CCFD Engineer is $28.38/hour
Hourly rate for a CCFD Captain is $31.92/hour
Hourly rate for a Republic Services Residential Driver is $22/hour
Hourly rate for a CCSD Teacher is $27.24/hour
Hourly rate for a CCSD Teacher with 5 years experience is $31.79/hour
Hourly rate for a LVMPD Police Officer II is $29.36/hour
Hourly rate for a LVMPD Police Sergeant is $36.71/hour
Teachers start out making $10/hour more than FFs.
Garbage truck drives make $4.5 more/hour.
Nurses? Cops? Plumbers? Electricians? etc. etc.
You can afford a nice condo on 30K a year, so everyone just adjust already. Hell, you can afford a nice single family home on that. I'm sick of people complaining about their tax dollars going to help the unemployed when actually they're blowing money to pay outrageous firefighter salaries.
RTK, Really? More unfounded claims of mass conspiracy by the thieving arrogant fire thugs. Where do you get your info? The Sun? Sisolak? You must be kidding. Joe is literally ordered to write about specific issues by Sisolak. Joe also knows that if he doesn't write the way Sisolak wants, Joe will be replaced with someone that does.
But in case you're genuinely misinformed, OT doesn't go towards retirement calculations, only a Callback does. I'm not sure what the actual number of OT vs Callback shifts is, but I could safely wager that out of all OT/Callbacks, Callbacks probably account for <10% of the total OT shifts. For a OT shift to be considered a "Callback" it has to meet about 6 different conditions.
Plus, this notion of an organized scam is simply ludicrous. Do you know what level of coordination that would take to pull off. You think you could get a few hundred people to secretly agree to an organized program to screw the community that we signed up to serve? It's hard enough getting 6 people agree on lunch. Plus, there are a bunch of safeguards build into the system that prevents this, For example, If I'm sick tomorrow, I have no way to let a buddy work for me, only for him to call in next week and have me work for him. Who works OT is determined by who has signed up to work, then who worked last, then if nobody is signed up to work, it goes in a reverse seniority, based on who was forced to work last
Is the system infallible? No, but if this is happening we'd be talking about a few bad apples. Plus the Fire Dept admin can discipline anyone they suspect of sick time abuse. If you've got evidence to the contrary I'd love to hear it.
Getalife,
I have never belittled AMR Medics! I said we should get rid of AMR, and have Fire Departments provide all medical, just like the Henderson Fire Department. This would generate a lot of money for the County & City, and not AMR shareholders pockets. What is wrong with that? The Fire Departments would have to hire a lot more Firefighters, and many of them would most likely come from the Private Ambulance companies. Many of my friends work for AMR, and are testing for the Fire Departments.
I am sorry if I offended fast food workers. It is common knowledge that fast food employees start out at min wage, and I was just saying if they worked the hours of some of these firefighters they would make close to $100k. I never said anything bad about someone working at fast food place. If a nurse worked these hours, they would make $300k year. I am not trying to belittle Nurses, I am just giving examples of what other professions would be making if they were working the same hours.
Getalife,
What would you make if you worked an average of 360 hours a month?
Getalife,
Lets stop Firefighters working 240 hours a month. No more 24 hour shifts! No reason to shop, sleep, or go to the gym. We could work out after work, sleep 8 hours every night with our wives, and be home with our families.
We can work 8, 10, 12 hour shifts. (I would like four 10 hour shifts.)
This will cost the County some serious money, and our taxes will double, but no one will ever be jealous of Firefighters income.
Math 101
558 Firefighters x 240 hours a month =133,920 hours.
558 Firefighters x 160 hours a month=89,280 hours.
133,920-89,280=44,640 hours.
44,640 divided by 160=279
We need to hire another 279 Firefighters($40K year on benefits,, plus retirements for each employees in the future)
We still need to hire another 100 to fill new Stations, Sick & Vacation openings.
Lets hire another 379 Firefighters, and really increase our taxes!
@buddy,
sorry if i sound like a broken record, just voicing my opinion, you know like I have a right to do.
@lasvegas,
why do we need to hire that many more ff since most of the calls are medical and can be handled by AMR without you guys even showing up.
Why is there extra pay for filling out paperwork properly. Is it because it wasn't getting done properly before and in order to offer some kind of incentive the union wanted their guys paid to fill out paperwork.
There are so many ways these guys are ripping off the taxpayers it is sick.
RTK, I already told you, OT doesn't get calculated into retirement. Callbacks are calculated into retirement, but callbacks represent a minimal percent of the total OT shifts. I already tried to explain the difference between OT and a Callback.
However, you have not presented your evidence that "someone scams overtime". Do you have any accounts of this actually happeneing, other than Sisolak or the Sun's claims? If you do I'd love to hear about it.
unsilent, AMR and Medicwest can't comply with the terms of the existing franchise agreement. This is a fact. If the FD didn't respond, response times would most certainly be increased. When it comes to emergency response, response times are paramount. Numerous times during any given month AMR and Medicwest simply cant respond to emergencies. This is a factor of their profit vs performance business model, and the loser in this model is the patient.
So based on this, why would you have any faith that they would be able to handle all of the medical calls in the valley.
The FFs are going to be there for fire protection regardless, so why not send them on medical calls if it increases the likeliness that response times will be reduced, FD gets there first, stabilizes the patient, and transfers care to the privates for transport, so they can quickly return to service for fire protection and any other emergencies, medical or otherwise.
Unsilent,
I would rather have County & City of Las Vegas make the money, rather than a Private Ambulance Company. AMR must do really well for themselves, because they are really pushing to take over EMS. Do you think AMR would be telling the County Commissioners they could handle all of the EMS, if they were not making money?
EMS Corporation own AMR & Medic West. I believe they Bought out Southwest Ambulance. (Correct me if I am wrong) They didn't want compete with anyone. We all know they don't like the City Fire Department transporting. Enough money is made on transports, they pay their Firefighters for each one. I do not agree with this practice, and I believe it is going away.
I would rather see Clark County & City make money, than EMS Corp. I still want to see all the shareholders names, and who has bought stock in the company within the last year. With the way things are going, maybe I will buy some.
Emergency Medical Services Corp stocks are up today.
Private Ambulance Company has the ability to go on strike, and they almost did last year. AMR was planing on paying Firefighters to work on their ambulances. I am glad they reached an agreement with their employees and never went on strike.
RTK, please provide your evidence. You can't honestly continue to expect me to explain myself while you fish for your latest conspiracy theory.
I have repeatedly shown my willingness to try any inform.
It's your turn... Provide your evidence of the claims you've made.
You make no sense.
Again... I have repeatedly shown my willingness to openly discuss these issues in this forum.
Again... You have made various claims about FFs, and I would like to know where you get your information from.
Your turn... Provide your source or evidence if you have any.
The longer you dodge my question the less credible you become.
crickets... crickets....
lasvegas:
Blow up all the smokescreens and spout all the obfuscation you like.
The fact is you are a lazy, overpaid union goon whose rape of the Nevada taxpayer downright criminal.
You sit there in your cushy fire station, earning disgusting amounts of "overtime" by watching DVDs, working out and sleeping.
Meanwhile, out in the real world, the rest of us are suffering through the worst economy in eighty years.
While most of us are worried for our jobs and families, you and your fellow greedy union slugs have the nerve to demand more money, more benefits, more pensions and squeeze more blood from the people you claim you serve.
It's okay though. As you can see the curtain has been pulled back and the public can finally see the revolting scam you've pulled on the them for so many years. The jig is up. The mask is off. The con is over.
Finally we see you for the criminal thugs you guys are. The real 'heroes' are over in some Afghan desert getting shot at for 20K a year - not sitting a a palatial fire station playing xBox and enjoying their 20 days off a month for 150K a year.
Buddy,
You have some very good points, but for you to say that there are no games going on with overtime is false and you know it. There are many loopholes in your staffing program and you seem like you have strong integrity and I would hope those individuals that are playing the system are dealt with. You know who they are as everyone does. It needs to come to a stop. If someone calls in sick, they should not be eligible for OT the next day or several days. If you want to see sick leave abuse come to an end, tighten up the return to work rules. The staffing of your units with cross duplications of roles is also very expensive. Captain, Engineer, FF/P, and FF and that is all it should be. Your right when you quote your hourly wage, but when you add 10% for and engineer or captain to hold a medic cert, or 5% to maintain your EMT at all ranks begins to add up. How many ranks keep their medic cert to never use it but to get the pay? Be real, there are many that do. You know the incentive pay is also there other specialties too. I get the special ops stuff but again, that should be the only incentive pay allowed -- Hazmat, Tech Rescue, and Crash Rescue and don't even get me started on Longevity Pay!
Dual response systems are a huge duplication in effort. 3%-5% of all calls are life threatening calls. Why are you staffing to run a 100% of them? To me it is a waste of resources to have an engine sitting around waiting for the privates to come and transport "Otis the drunk" or babysit a slip and fall at the hotels. Or worse yet, having a truck company tied up on a fall. Why can't the privates run these calls? When my house or my families burns, I need YOU there not tied up on a minor routine medical call. The only thing this does is inflates your stats.
Yes the manning study does show that more is better! But 4 FF on an engine does not change the call processing times or response times. To drop back to a 3 person company drops your on scene efficiency by only 5%-6%. 2 man companies are insane, but if it means the difference between closing a unit or running with 3 persons, I choose 3 persons. Because me as Joe Blow public want you there when I call 911. Departments all across the country are having to make this choice.
Yes there are 3 training centers with 3 different training chief's, running the training for 3 different departments. What I am talking about is if they were consolidated, 1 main chief, 1 ops chief, 1 training chief, etc for the entire valley. Trim the administrative "Pork".
And no the Commissioners are not without blame. If look at those that were very supportive of the fire department in years past also took money under the table and went to prison. To be honest there is not one of them that knows a darn thing about running a fire department. That is obvious when then open fire stations, but did not hire any staff for them. It was all done on OT. The more stations, the more OT and now there is this mess that needs to be cleaned up. But the fact is, there is a huge shortfall, there are things that can be done and as a fire union and servants of the community, you should want to do the right thing. Ego's need to be left out of the process and work on the solutions. Walking away from the table fixes nothing!
1776, Are you sure you have your facts straight?
"you and your fellow greedy union slugs have the nerve to demand more money, more benefits, more pensions and squeeze more blood from the people you claim you serve."... Can you reference something that validates this claim?
1776
First, I am not lazy, and $26 hour as not overpaid. I have an Associate Degree in Fire Science, and I am certified Paramedic. I could have went to school to become a ER nurse and could be making $45 hour at the County Hospital.(Tax Dollars)
Any Firefighter who is enjoying their 20 day off a month is not working overtime, and makes $55k-$75k a year.
I am just is concern about my family and my job as you! Firefighters are loosing their homes, with no overtime, and spouses loosing their jobs.
Everyone is taking hit!
I am glad you can finally see the ridiculous hours we are working, and maybe the County Commissioners will hire enough firefighters to stop overtime. You will pay more money on taxes, but you will be happy as long is no firefighter is making an "x" amount of dollars. I know you consider $26 an hour is just outrageous.
You read my other post, put is on 40 hours a week and hire another 400 employees. I would love to work 40 hours a week, and I will agree to not watch TV, workout, and never need to sleep. If you call three hours of broken sleep, real sleep. Try that for 72 hour shift.
I work my hours and overtime when I can. How is that a scam? Hire enough to stop overtime, I don't care! I loved this job when I started making $40K a year, and I will love this job if I go back to that. I never took this job for the money, like so many other people only took jobs that paid big money.
Ripit, I didn't say that there were no games going on. I said there are numerous safeguards built into the system designed to make the misuse of sick time difficult. However, I also said it's not perfect. And a few bad apples may exist. But overall, the claims that Sisolak and Joe make about widespread organized overtime fraud are ludicrous. I believe that your idea about not being able to work OT after using sick time is already in place. Furthermore, after a given number of sick shifts have been used a doctors note is required. Plus, anytime FD management believes "abuse" is occurring they can investigate and discipline if proven. But no, its not perfect. Does it prevent widespread abuse, or even most misuse, Yes.
Let me state that I have nothing to do with the Union's negotiations. But, if widespread abuse is already taken care of with safeguards, then your left with the sporadic use of sick time when someone for one reason or another uses sick time when they or someone in their family are not directly ill. Callbacks count towards retirement, OT does not. Scheduled vacation is covered by OT, but sick time is covered by a OT or a Callback depending on when the vacancy was created (and a few other factors). If more of a employee's accrued time (sick/vacation) was categorized as vacation, or even personal time. Then less sick time would be used, and fewer callbacks would be created, ultimately saving the County money. Just an idea....
Continued...
Everyone knows how many medical emergencies we respond to. Everyone with a EMS cert (EMT-B, EMT-I, Paramedic) is expected to use their skills on medical calls. Additionally, everyone performs the necessary training to keep their certifications current. As far as Medic certs go, there is rarely ever more than one Paramedic on any given unit. I really don't see much waste here.
Longevity is what it is... personally, I could care less, but it's a County wide benefit. Even Sisolak and Rory get longevity. If there is going to be a change with Longevity, they should lead by example and change should start with them.
Let's assume that your assumption is correct and 3-5% of EMS calls are legit life threatening emergencies. The problem is that even though there is a system to screen and prioritize calls prior to allocating units for response, much of the time the coding doesn't match the call. For the coding to work, it is based on a whole bunch of "if this then that" rules. Plus, for this to work it depends on who is reporting the emergency and what type of info they are providing. More often than not, a call that gets coded as a Delta (the most serious), turns out to be relatively minor, and an Alpha or Bravo (the 2 least serious) turns out to be quite serious. The problem is you just never know. Nobody hates missing a fire more than us, but it happens. But running these medical calls is about more than just padding stats. It's about response times. While you or I may not classify someone's slip and fall as a dire medical emergency, but to the person that dials 911, It's their emergency, and we don't judge them for feeling like they needed our services. We simply get there as quickly and safely as possible, provide prompt professional emergency medical care, transfer patient care to a private ambulance for transport, and return to service ready to run our next emergency.
Why cant the privates just run these calls?... I don't know, but I would assume that because they are a private business with shareholders, profit is more important than patients. Now, I'm making this statement about AMR/Medicwest as a company, the people in the field are for the most part well intended professionals. Regardless, they can't respond to the all the current calls. If the FD didn't run these calls there would be multiple regular occurrences when someone dials 911, and it takes upwards of ten minutes for someone to respond or even worse, nobody responds. As a municipality, this is simply not an acceptable option...
Continued...
As far as minimum manning goes.. I believe the report states 4 person crew are not 5-6% more effective, but rather says they are 25% more effective. This is pretty significant on scene.
Admin "fat": I don't really know what our administrators do up there, but it must be important, right?. But seriously, I could imagine that even if you consolidated all the departments, 1 chief might not be able to handle the workload of 3. Maybe they could handle the workload of 2? Maybe not. Maybe they are already up to their necks in workload. Consolidation would in this case not really save much, plus we would certainly incur a bunch of logistical costs of repainting and renaming all our equipment, buildings, uniforms, pens, pencils, etc. etc. etc..
I completely agree with you, as a union and as public servants we should do the right thing. After all the spin and dust has settled, I'm sure you will see that the Union has actually been presenting solutions and working on solutions to help our community during these hard times.
1776? You still there? Any references for your claims?
RTK540? How bout you? any sources or references to your claims?
Wait a minute... RTK540 has 6 characters, Sisolak has 7 characters, that's awfully close... Maybe..... Steve is that you? I've heard a rumor that you read and post on this forum. Wanna discuss this without looking like an uninformed blowhard? Maybe you should talk to your staff before going on live TV and looking like a complete nincompoop.
Lasvegas (and Buddy)
Yes you are lazy. You are paid digusting amounts of money to sit on recliners, watch movies, go to the gym, and sleep.
Your $26/hr wage hardly reflects the obscene amounts of 'overtime pay' you earn by sleeping and playing video games. And it certainly doesn't begin to touch the staggering vacation pay, sick pay, benefits and pension you take home.
There is simply no job in the world where someone can can earn more money, and work less.
All for what? Your joke of an associates degree, and paramedics training course?
And spare me and the rest of normal working people your hypocritical lies about how tough it is right now for you. While unemployment soars past 15% in NV, when was the last time one of you or your fellow goons took a paycut?
The average annual salary of a CCFD fireman last year was $187,000- more than many doctors and lawyers - paid for by taxpayer dollars to GED-level imbeciles who had the juice to get the lottery picked into your good ol boys club.
You know damn well if they fired every one of you overpaid morons tomorrow they could fill your positions in a hour. Guys would line up around the block to get paid a quarter of what you make.
So spare us your idiotic BS about how much overtime the county 'forces' you to work. I certainly wouldn't whine and moan if my employer 'forced' me to 'work' overtime from a leather recliner watching movies and racking up the double-time sleeping!
Your scam has been discovered. Keep on trying to perpetuate the myth that you are some sort of 'hero' and are somehow entitled to live like greedy pigs while the rest of us pay for your vulgarity.
Like I said. The real heroes are out there getting shot at by Jihadists for 20K a year and college tuition. The real heroes are the countless hardworking Americans who can't find work in this abysmal economy. An economy made worse by greedy public-servants whose unions won't take a 1% paycut.
You guys are a freaking joke. And the rest of us are finally seeing it.
Why does Sisolak keep going on TV and saying that "I think it would be cheaper to hire more firefighters, then to pay them overtime". The last County Commission meeting I attended had an employee from finance who said" It is cheaper to pay overtime then hire new employees". This is not some theory that can't be proven. You would think the people who are in charge of the Clark Counties budget would have the answer. If I had my own business, I would find out, and either hire more staff, or fewer and have them work overtime to save money. I really don't care want anyone thinks, I just want the truth! I think it would be cheaper to pay staff overtime and no insurance, retirements for new personnel, as long as their overtime does not count towards their retirement pay. Who cares what I think! I hope the County has not been spending extra money all these years by having Firefighters working overtime vs hiring new ones.
How irresponsible is it, not knowing the answer. I am a Tax Payer and I want to save money every way possible, but not at the expense of putting someone's life endanger.
@1776-
I'm sorry you are so bitter, and you are DEFINITELY bitter. If it makes you feel better to lash out and call names, then go ahead, that's our job as FF's, to help people in need.
I understand your frustration. You're stuck in a dead end job you hate, and your life is miserable, I'm sorry for you.
But really, name calling? What is it we try to instill in our children, oh yes, don't stoop to the level of name calling.............Not polite.
I do agree with one thing you said.......When was the last time CLARK COUNTY FIRE DEPT. took a cut?
1776
My hour pay is above average for Firefighters across the United States. Although, my pay is inline with Firefighters who provide ALS, and work in Cities the size of Las Vegas.
I DO NOT NEED TO WORK OVERTIME!
TELL THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS TO HIRE ENOUGH FIREFIGHTERS TO STOP OVERTIME. THEY WON'T DO THAT BECAUSE IT WILL COST TOO MUCH MONEY. IF IT WAS CHEAPER THEY WOULD HAVE DONE IT BY NOW.
WHO HAVE I SCAMED? I GO TO WORK AND I WORK OVERTIME IF IT IS AVAILABLE, TO PROVIDE A BETTER LIFE FOR MY FAMILY! WHEN THERE WAS NO OVERTIME, I HAD A SIDE BUSINESS. BEFORE I WAS A FIREFIGHTER I HAD A FULL TIME JOB , TWO PART TIME JOBS. WAS I SCAMMING THEN? EVERYONE I NEW GAVE ME CREDIT FOR WORKING FULL TIME , TWO PART TIME JOBS, AND GOING TO SCHOOL PART TIME. DON'T YOU EVER CALL ME LAZY! I HAVE BEEN ON FOR OVER TEN YEARS AND NEVER MADE CLOSE TO $187K. BUDDY HAS EXPLAINED WHY THESE NUMERS ARE SO HIGH OVER AND OVER, AND YOU DON'T GET!
1776
If we have it so good, why don't you test?
The only thing we agree on, is we have heros who are getting shot at, for a lot less. What do you do, do you get shot at? Do you put your live on the line. Do you make more than our Heros? You must be educated to put down my AS Degree, and Paramedic Certification. I would have went for a BS Degree in Fire Science, but UNLV does not offer one. I wanted to be a Firefighter since High School, and that is what I went to school for. I was not looking for Degree to get a High Paying Job. I have friends who are in the Para Rescue, SFNG, and Delta and make over six figures. Do you know that 20% of the Firefighters you hate, have served in the Military, and a few are Reserves now. We had one of our own who was shot in the stomach the day before he returned home two years ago, and he received a Purple Heart. The same people you respect, you also put down, and belittle them. You call them GED-Level Imbeciles, Overpaid Morons, and Greedy Pigs.
I can also work overseas as a Firefighter for $140K. It would not cost you a dime, but I am sure you would be upset knowing that a Firefighter is making that kind of money.
However, you do contradict yourself. You say we are Morons, but we a somehow smart enough to game the system to make all this money.
I don't consider me signing up for overtime, as gaming the system.
If the County does not want to fill the vacancies, then myself and many others will work the overtime. If it's not available, I can't work it!
I AM GOING TO SAY ONE MORE TIME. IF YOU DON'T LIKE US WORKING OVERTIME, THEN HAVE THE COUNTY HIRE MORE FIREFIGHTERS!
I am carious to know if didn't work overtime, would I still be a GED-Level Imbecile, Overpaid Moron, and Greedy Pig?
to lasvegas and the other "heroes":
Let me answer your last question, and spell out one more time why you are a lazy, greedy, overpaid pig:
It's because you, collectively, are the highest paid public employees in the state, with an average salary of nearly 200K, battalion chiefs making upwards of 400K, even the lowliest rookie grunt likely earning 100K in his first year in the department.
It's because you have the gall to complain about how much overtime you are 'forced' to work when we all know you earn it by sitting on your lazy behind in a palatial fire station watching movies, working out, playing video games and sleeping. It is frankly appalling that you can earn a full shift of overtime pay by sleeping!
It's because you make massively more money than comparable private sector employees, especially considering most of you have the equivalent of high-school educations. But after complete some 6-week academy, that any idiot could complete, you fancy yourself some noble breed of rare hero who deserves to live like a king off the taxpayer.
How many school teacher jobs could they save by firing even one of you slobs?
How many billions in taxpayer dollars do you guys suck down getting paid to do what most of us consider leisure activities?
How many more days off per month do you want? Right now you work 10, if you can even call it work, while the rest of us work double that or more.
When you retire at age 45? What percentage of your already bloated salary are we going to have to keep paying you? I guess it makes no difference, since we already are paying you NOT to work.
You're not going to convince me or any other Nevada taxpayers with your infantile whining about overtime. You're a crook and you know it. Why don't you give us your name so we can see how much money you really made last year on transparentnevada.com.
Why don't you show up again at the the city council in your yellow solidarity shirts with the rest of your union thugs to menace the county officials and scare them into agreeing with your ridiculous union demands. I mean, after firing hundreds of city workers, laying off a thousand teachers, how dare they cut into your bloated vacation time or dare suggest you take a tiny paycut?
I know several officers in Metro, and they too are absolutely disgusted with the cancer you guys have become. While they are out protecting us criminals and violence, you guys are protecting us from what exactly?
The dumpster fire that happens once a month?
The fender-bender that AMR and the towtruck could clean up in 20 minutes?
So, once again, you are not a hero, you are a bloodsucking leech whose shakedown of the Nevada taxpayer is downright criminal. Every one of you deserves to be fired from your joke of a job, tossed out onto your lazy behinds, and then you might know what its like to have a real job and actually have to work for a living.
1776, References for your claims? Got any?
I know your opinion will probably never change, frankly my opinion of you won't either , you clearly have an underlying issue regarding FFs. But I'll explain a couple facts and maybe you can shed just a little of your anger.
I'm not gonna waste extra time for you rewriting something I've previously explained, but here's something from an earlier article that talks about just some of the things your local fire department does in addition to the ones you stated...
"But in addition to the fire calls and medical calls, there's much more... Sometimes I stand around and console grieving family members after a family member has died. Sometimes I remove water from homes when people's water lines break. Sometimes I push stalled cars out of traffic so the occupants don't get struck by another vehicle, sometimes I give out gifts I've purchased to needy families in my response area. Sometimes I help LVMPD restrain suspects when they don't have enough police officers on scene. Sometimes I give medical patients taxi money when they need to go to the hospital, but won't because they dont know how they'll get home. Etc. etc. etc.
Some of the things we do on duty are different than most jobs, because we're at work for 24 hours. Regardless, whether I'm training, shopping, physically conditioning, eating, or even pooping. We are ready to respond to the next emergency at a moments notice. Responding to our public's emergencies is the number one priority and everything else takes a back seat. We respond as quickly as is safe to do on every emergency, regardless of what we were in the middle of."
lets do some "leisure activity" math...
Every weekend my unit runs over 20 calls a shift. lets assume response time is 5 minutes from dispatch to the patients side. Let's assume 15 minutes on scene before patient care is transferred to the private ambulance company and the patient is en route to the hospital. Returning to the station is done without lights and sirens, so let's say 10 minutes. So for a fair average on a medical call lets assume it's 30 minutes from door to door. 30 min x 20 = 10 hours. Each incident requires a report to be documented, lets assume 15 minutes per report. 30 x 15 minutes..........
CONTINUED.........
Door-to-door incident time = 20 incidents x 30 min. = 10 hours
Documentation = 20 reports x 15 minutes = 5 hours
Station cleaning and maintenance = 1 hour
Meals (2/day) = Food prep, eating, cleaning = 2 hours
Daily Fire/EMS training = 2 hours
Total time: 20 hours
Time left for watching movies, working out, playing video games, and sleep in our fire palace? 4 hours. Don't forget, there are a lot of emergency types that take a lot longer than 30 minutes to mitigate. Plus our day isn't scheduled, those remaining 4 hrs aren't consecutive. We don't refer to someone else during meals or rest. I never sleep through the night. I never start and finish a meal without stopping to run on someone's emergency. Even on a slow day my unit typically runs more than 10 calls a day. On a really busy day we've run up to 26 calls a day, and there are other emergency response units in the valley that are even busier.
I'm not complaining, I'm EXPLAINING. I love my job, and it has nothing to do with the money. When I applied for this job, the job announcement said something around 50K/yr. And If the County hired enough personnel, then the OT wouldn't exist, and that's exactly how much I would have made.
Tax payers don't pay billions for their local Fire & EMS protection. The Entire County budget was around 6.5 billion. The entire CCFD budget was 137 million. That's 2% on the total County budget. The average home owner pays less than $10/month to have Fire and Advance Life Support services available to them 24/7/365, just a phone call and a couple minutes away.
RTK540 (Sisolak?), CCFD has around 3000 fires a year. I'll bet LVFD has about the same. Some are dumpsters, some are brush fires, some are vehicle fires, some are single unit mobile home fires, some are multi-unit apartment fires, some are gigantic entire block fires, some are hotel fires, etc. etc.
FYI... Dumpsters are full of trash, trash made of all kinds of plastics and other things that when burning put out nasty carcinogenic gases. No, I rarely fear for my life fighting a dumpster fire, but the gases are still extremely dangerous and if inhaled kill you over time.
Furthermore, OT is a direct result of staffing, the County decides on staffing, not the Union and certainly not the FFs. Your entire perception of OT is WRONG!!!!!! We don't get extra OT, because we decide to all hang out when our shift should be over and train, going over our scheduled time and thus acquire extra OT. There are vacancies on the FD that need to be covered for an entire shift, everyday of the year. If the County doesn't hire someone to fill that spot it gets covered by someone who either volunteered to work it or someone who is forced to work it.
You continue to make unintelligent claims that have no basis on reality. You still never provided any references for all the claims you made about FFs. Yet now you make more? Really?? It's like the synapses in your head that connect logical and reasonable thought are literally broken.
Buddy,
I have no problem with the hourly rate that you make. Because of your 56 hr weeks, anything over that should be overtime. FLSA as changed your overtime rate because of the 24 hrs shift. The Privates get paid OT anything over 8 hrs from the start of their shifts. The issue I have is that the Dual Response system that runs in Las Vegas is a huge duplication of resources that again the privates can handle. The goal of the fire department should be to respond to the most critical emergencies. Yes I am very familure with Priority Dispatch and you can alter your responses to every one of them. That is the beauty of it. You have been running this system long enough to go back and research the data and see the calls that you are needed on and result in not only a transport, but the fire department riding in on. My guess is that 2 in 10 calls is the average that you ride in with. Why not look at more dynamic shifts other than 24. Staff accordingly to call volume. You have the data to know when your highs and lows are. You can say it is unpredictable and you will have those occasions, but it would allow you to staff on demand. You are on a busy unit, but there are those units too that sleep most of the night, yes they are few, but they are out there. So again, why not staff to demand. The privates do it, the food industry does it and the fire service needs to break tradition and also look at it. Call up to Tualatin Valley Fire and Rescue in Or. and ask them about it, they love it.
Since you do not transport, except on very rare occasions, 300 calls out of the 121,000 you run, you should be not be running with rescues. Put that staffing to the engines and to back fill the OT if the county is not going to hire the extra folks. The data is there if someone would just truly study it. This would significantly drop your OT pay along with making sure you always had 4 man engine companies.
If someone would hold the privates feet to the fire with the response times and fine them appropriately, this too would be a large amount of money back to the county and keep them accountable for their franchise agreements.
If you take a strong look at all the data, you could justify why you need additional resources or alter your responses. I know for a fact that these items are not being look into. You said it best when you said you don't know what your administration does all day. That shows a complete disconnect from the floor to admin and know one knows what the priorities are, how those priorities are set, and how they are going to be accomplished. You allow your union to alter your responses, but I am here to tell you that if I were able to get enough folks from the floor in with admin, you could solve these issues effectively and better your efficiency.
Continued
Your staffing levels are very low, and for the county not to address the amt of time you are at work with broken sleep patters you have time after time, all of you will die young! http://www.iafc.org/associations/4685/fi... The fact that you can work so much overtime is so dangerous. Not just to yourself, but to the public as well. I would challenge you to look outside the box for solutions and yes it will be change and it will be uncomfortable.
Ripit, your comments have real thought behind them and I appreciate it. I guess my response to your primary issue is that the privates can't handle the calls. They cant do it now, so why would you assume that they would be able to handle a larger load, without the FD getting their first and stabilizing the patients. Yes, sometimes we do stand around and wait for the transport unit to arrive. But at least the patient has been stabilized. If they are not stabilized, that's where the benefit of having a FD rescue available comes in handy. I guess this actually even justifies considering the exact opposite of your idea. Since we're going to be there anyway, why don't we eliminate the private transport company and just do all the transports as well.
Your right about change, its natural to resist even when its for the better. But the FFs on the floor are smart enough to accept change if it is truly for the better. However, changes of this type are made at the admin level. Sure the union has committees, and those committees make presentations to admin, but ultimately admin does whatever they want.
Your also right about the analyzing the data. It could show some areas of improvement, but numbers are funny. The more sophisticated you make your analysis, the more often the results favor the opinion of whoever is doing the analysis. One example of this is the transparent nevada website. But your right, the data is there and without some form of analysis you can't know if your on the right course.
When it comes to response trends and resource prioritization, what would you do for a 911 disconnect? Is that an extremely important call? Maybe it was just a crank call. If it was important they'd call back, if they could, right? When the dispatch center calls back to see if there is a real problem and nobody answers now what? Who knows, do we assume the worst until more information is known......
CONTINUED.....
I believe your ideas have merit, but you can't run the fire department as lean as a private business does. We have different goals and responsibilities. They choose profit, we choose performance. Unlike the private ambulance companies or the food industry, the fire dept has a legal responsibility and duty to act. The ambulance company can look at trends and then adjust their personnel to the minimal number possible and in turn maximize profits. But if there is an emergency that requires them to respond, and they can't because their staffing analysis was wrong, so what? It doesnt effect their bottom line. The publlc expects different from the fire department. The food industry has a completely different mission as well. If they don't have enough tables or staff available, it takes longer for you to get your food. But in most cases the average diner will tolerate some amount of additional delay before they storm out of the restaurant, never to return. The fire service literally is in a race, from the moment we get notified of an emergency the clock is ticking. Whether its a medical patient or a fire, the outcome has a direct relationship to how quickly the emergency is mitigated. In the fire service faster is always better, delays cost property and lives.
I disagree with your goal of a fire department. Only responding to the "most critical emergencies" is not good enough. It should be to provide fire protection and medical treatment for all of our residents and visitors, to provide our services as quickly and safely as possible, while maintaining a professional, respectful and courteous demeanor. Sure it may cost a little more to do business this way, but the public has pretty high expectations when they call 911.
Anyway, thanks for the ideas, they have merit and you pose some good questions. I'm not trying to argue with you merely to be argumentative, but these issues are very complex and I'm just trying to discuss some of the other facets. And the sleep study... Yup, I've got all those conditions in various stages of development.
Ripit,
I appreciate your comments, and I really think your are looking for a solution, unlike other who just want to bash Firefighters.
I have said the County could save a lot of money, by taking over all EMS, and start transporting, This would bring a lot of money back into the Counties budget, but I think people would suffer. I am looking what is best for patient care, not for our bank account.
I believe we need to continue a dual response. On a critical patient you need one paramedic taking care of airway, one paramedic taking care of ALS medication administration, and the monitor. Then you need one EMT-Intermediate taking care of chest compressions. It becomes very crazy in the back of the ambulance, with only two to three medics. The ER will have a Doctor, 2-3 nurses, 1 respiratory therapist, 1 pharmacist on a cardiac arrest patient, and double that on a Trauma patient.
We only ride in 2 out of ten calls, and transport ourselves 1 out of 100. This has been my experience, and I can not give the numbers for other stations. There are times we our dispatched for someone who was involved in a fight, then we get there to find a person shot or stabbed. Person having pain to stomach, then we arrive and find patient having a heart attack, and they they go into cardiac arrest.
My point is their is no way you can have dispatch call for a dual response, only when they meet some criteria. This might work 90% of the time, but that 10% will suffer or die without the extra medics to provide ALS treatment. I know 10% loss might be worth the million dollar savings, if you are a businessman. The Fire Department is not in business to make money, we are in the business to save lives!
Lasvegas,
I agree with you that it gets very busy in the back of a unit and the fact that FD should be doing the transports, if you look Seattle fire and the medical system they have in place, this is one of the finest run EMS systems in the country, they have very highly trained dispatchers and run a system with Aid Cars (BLS Ambulances) and Medic units (ALS), Plus thier public is very well educated on what to expect from the fire service. AMR is also there. Based on the dispatch you will get an Aid unit that can transport, Engine company and Aid unit, Or Engine and Medic Unit. It basically gets down to the Medics there take care of only the truely sick folks, and if something changes when the Aid unit gets on scene, they upgrade the call. In South King County Medic One, if it is not an ALS patient, Medic One dispatches AMR to do the transport, but you have to realize to do that there is very tight and proactive medical control there, not like here!.
Truly the system here is in need of an overhaul and that is going to come from proactive leadership and I don't know if the fire departments, city and county government are ready for that kind of overall.
The Community needs you in place, I just don't agree with how the system is set up. I believe in continuity of care and don't believe you get that when you hand your patient off to the privates. It is far better to do that with one of your engine companies transfering care to one of your rescue units. Problems can be taken care of easier when this occurs and there is a true chain of command. Training and standardization is critical, and since everyone is doing their own thing, it is very tough. Training of the public and getting their expectations and getting them involved is also critical. You just have to be able to get past the emtotions first! Yes-the protocols are standarized, but every one is doing things just a little different. Chain of command means nothing to the privates. But we could go on and on. Just keep your minds open. Things are tough all over and people are scared and are trying to look out for one another and government is not looked upon very good right now! There are lots of inventive ideas, alot that would come from the ranks on the floor that would be and should be a driving force. Try and see the financial problems from the County's and communities standpoint too and remember - dirt is easy to find, but it is that golden nugget that takes a lot work! Work together and focus on doing the right thing for the public, for it is who you are there for! It is going to be an uphill battle for a long time!
Buddy,
I am not arguing with you in the least. I would like to say we are discussing items! The fire service has been around for 100's of years. When stuff hits the fan, the fire department is the first to respond....not sometimes, always! and it doesnt matter what is for and your expected to perform at your best.
Medicine over the past 30 years has gone from theory, to fact based. The numbers are critically important, and I understand that numbers "can prove an elephant can hang from a cliff with his tail tied to a dandilion" but we have to be able to break this down. Case and point, why does station 29 not have a resuce in it? Goes back to numbers. Your performance is all about the numbers and you are expected to be fiscally responsible and if there are better ways to respond, you need to look at them. Medic skills are critical-nothing is gained by having a medic look at a boil on someones butt, or a laceration or a 911 disconnect. Do they deserve a response, yes they do. Is 4 or 6 people going to impact that call, no! How much stabilization are you really going to be doing, and is there are better way to respond to this type of call? There is no debate on a critical call and if the proper training goes into the dispatchers and the community, you will get the proper response. No one in the community wants to hear that the closest engine was tied up on a boil when they have a critical emergency or a fire! But you know as I do, the hotels call 911 all the time to cover their liability of a cut finger, sprained ankle, and you can make the rest of the list. What are your departments performance indicators....Not response times. Trauma Scene times, Cardiac save rates, Intubation 1st attmept, Time on scene with fresh strokes and the list goes on and on. Compare that to the privates. Look at your fires! How fast from the time of arrival to water on the fire? How many fires held to room of origin? It is not good enough anymore to say you are better because your FD. I don't know if your department does this or not, I have never seen any info ever presented. But a busines owner or citizen should be very interested in this.
You mention time as a critical factor on every call. Come on now. There is no debate on Critical Trauma, Cardiac Arrest, Drownings, Stemi, and stroke to name a few. But you know the majority of the calls there is not. In fact, it is probablly endangering the public more running lights and sirens to most of those calls.
About FD doing all the transports - count me in on that! That is too big of an overhaul to the current leadership of the departments and governments! Their brains would explode! There are still enough calls for the private to handle from other health care institutions!
I appreciate your passion for the career you have choosen! But not only is the responsibility of the department to save lives, it is to be fiscally responsible to the tax payers as well. This is a very fine line!
The City Council votes tonight whether to support Mayor John Peyton's 12 percent property tax rate increase. Under his proposed budget, the fire department only has to cut a few staff positions.
Three engine companies could go from having four firefighters on duty to having only three.
State law requires four firefighters at a scene before any can enter a building on fire, so those three-person crews would have to wait for additional firefighters to arrive.
Fire and Rescue Director Dan Kleman said the cuts aren't ideal and could affect firefighter response time, but "it's hardly a disaster."
The statement made here speaks volumes..The statement from a fire official from the Jacksonville Fire Dept.This goes to my question of working smarter with less. I don't know if there is a state law in nevada but if Jacksoville, a larger city, can do it...clark county should be able to do it and without a tax increase..