Clark County schools ponder an Arizona exodus
Fleeing families might add English-language learners to district rolls
Adam Lau / associated press
Dominic Chavez, 1, is shown with his mom at a rally last week in Los Angeles to protest Arizona’s immigration law. In a previous illegal-immigration crackdown in Arizona, elementary schools saw a drop in enrollment, leading educators to believe families with small children might leave again.
Monday, Aug. 2, 2010 | 2 a.m.
Sun Archives
- Nevada illegal immigration petition dropped (7-13-10)
- Complaint filed against Nevada immigration petition (7-7-10)
- ACLU, NAACP join group’s effort to block immigration petition (6-18-10)
- Immigration reform petition filed in Nevada (5-28-10)
- Protesters square off with Arizona sheriff over immigration law (5-7-10)
- Sheriff Joe Arpaio defends Arizona’s new immigration law (5-7-10)
- Arizona immigration law sparks conversation in Nevada (4-30-10)
- Protesters in Las Vegas rally against new Arizona immigration law (4-28-10)
- Harry Reid calls for border security before legalization (4-28-10)
- Gibbons sends letter to Obama on immigration reform (4-27-10)
- Group plans Arizona boycott, criticizes new immigration law (4-26-10)
- Gibbons demands Obama take action on immigration (4-26-10)
- Arizona governor signs immigration enforcement bill (4-23-10)
Sun Coverage
Arizona’s incendiary immigration law has Clark County education officials keeping a close eye on enrollment for the upcoming academic year because of the potential influx of students fleeing the Grand Canyon State.
The law would require Arizona police officers to verify the immigration status of anyone believed to be in the United States illegally. Immigrants would be required to carry documents verifying their legal status.
It’s too early to tell whether families with school-age children will leave Arizona, particularly because a federal judge last week suspended the more severe elements of the law hours before it was to take effect. But Rick Baldwin, demographics coordinator for the Clark County School District, said it’s a question many people are asking.
The district projects its fall enrollment to be 309,373, a decrease of 103 students from the official head count in September 2009.
Schools are being staffed at 97 percent of the projected enrollment, reducing the likelihood of layoffs if fewer students than expected show up. The district’s enrollment dropped by about a half-percent last year, the first decline in more than 25 years.
It might be difficult to quantify how many students the district could gain from Arizona this fall, and whether those families left as a result of the new law. The district doesn’t keep track of where students come from when they enroll for the first time, although the idea of doing so “has definitely crossed our minds in this office,” Baldwin said. “The problem is, that requires a lot more manpower, and we honestly don’t have too much lately.”
A large influx of English-language learners could be a mixed blessing for the district. It would help keep the total enrollment numbers up, which would mean more jobs for teachers. But the district doesn’t receive extra money to provide the services and programs such high-need students often require.
As of the 2009-10 academic year, Clark County’s student population was 41 percent Hispanic, and about 18 percent of the total enrollment was identified as English-language learners.
The district receives the same per-pupil amount from the state for every student (although extra money is provided for special education services). State and local education officials have long advocated for a “weighted” student formula, which would mean extra money for children who are English-language learners, or have other challenges, such as being homeless or coming from low-income households.
Craig Pletenik, communications manager of the Phoenix Union High School District, said so far registration numbers for the 2010-11 academic year are typical. The high school district is the state’s largest with more than 25,000 students at 16 campuses. Hispanics account for 78 percent of the student population, and 60 percent of the district’s families speak a language other than English at home.
“What we’re hearing is that people are waiting to see what happens, whether the court challenges (to the immigration law) hold up and how it would be enforced,” Pletenik said. “We’re a fairly transient population to begin with, and we lose and gain children on a fairly regular basis.”
Classes begin today, but the district won’t do its first official head count until about 12 days later, Pletenik said. That’s when there will be some indication of how many students didn’t return to school after the summer break.
A few years ago, Arizona passed a law requiring employers to verify that new employees were legal residents. The local elementary schools saw a drop in enrollment after that, but the high schools’ numbers remained steady, Pletenik said. Educators theorized that parents allowed older students to either stay with family or friends in the Phoenix area, but parents moved on with the younger children.
“The thing we’re emphasizing with our families is that school is a safe place to be,” Pletenik said. “We follow the federal law, which says everyone is entitled to a free education.”
That’s also the message from Phoenix Elementary School District No. 1, spokeswoman Sara Bresnahan said. Classes begin this week at its 15 campuses, which serve students in grades K-8. Parents are reminded that federal law protects students’ rights to attend public school regardless of immigration status.
“Our focus is on the importance of the children being in school every day,” Bresnahan said.
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They might be brown, but they are our children.
They might say dumb stuff like 'Where ees the banyo?'
They might be skinny and dark.
And if you were inside that little bundle of wonder, trying like the devil to figure out the WTF, then the world would continue rolling through space.
You bet they're planning the September surprise and you're right, the numbers could get a bit overwhelming what with sixty nine kids in a class built for twenty.
It's time to evaluate our role, huh?
What color heart do we have inside our chests? If you were Juan or Maria, looking up at some big gringo in the A/C with books and water and games and tomorrow in your hand, would you think yourself worthy of kindness? A drink? A moment?
NO money for the CCCD to support criminal invaders!
airweare convinced us he's taking care of the tab. Money shouldn't even be a problem.
Enforcement shouldn't be a problem either. There just won't be any.
yes, I agree, illegal immigrants and their supporters would be better served by getting rid of the hate in their hearts for people who only want the laws of this country obeyed.
Maybe we should all just claim a few hundred extra dependents on our Income Tax Return next year - after all - if airweave isn't gonna support em all then we should be able to claim them since it's our TAX dollars supporting the criminals that they are - Everytime someone opts to play the 'poor kids' pity card I'm reminded of the pictures of children I saw on TV right after the whole 9/11 incident - I'm talking about the pictures of the kids in Iraq (or whatever god-forsaken country they were from) you know which ones I mean - the ones of the kids CHEERING and LAUGHING and PUMPING THEIR FISTS IN VICTORY over the whole 9/11 debacle. Yep - little TERRORISTS IN TRAINING they were - and by now probably some of them are already certified suicide-bombers just waiting for their gaggle of virgins in the next life. I have no pity for those or these anchor babies - take your kids and LEAVE. You won't be missed - and we all know Airweave aint gonna pick up the tab either.
Correction: meant to say AirweaRe.. sorry.
Simple solution stop teaching all classes in English. Teach in Spanish to everyone...Legal locally born American citizens need to be Spanish literate because the big day of the Spanish take over is only about 10-20 years away and it will happen then. Make Spanish the official American language...don't forget to eliminate American History and begin Hsipanic history at an early age. WE already allow Cinqo de Mayo celebrations in our schools... Import all teachers from south of the border....it will save money, complete the integration of our society and get on with the destruction of America as we once knew it.
If 18% of students are in need of learning English does harry Reid still stand on his statement that illegals are not taking jobs in Nevada?
They aren't my children, I don't want to pay for there education, health care, food, housing or incarceration. If you're not legally here GET OUT!
All top of all this "mess" I resent in the strongest way those...WHO after being in this country legal or illegal for 20 plus yrs STILL have not learned a single word of english. Sorry.English is and will remain this countries ONLY language.
It's a shame we have to bring children into this conversation. The poor cute illegal children... what about the poor U.S. children who are suffering due to the lack of attention in school. They want us to worry about their kids when they should know our kids come first. It'd be nice to help the children of the world, but we can bearly afford taking care of our own.
We do have a serious immigration problem in this country, but it's not with the "illegal" immigrants; it's with our own American commerce that have been aggressively recruiting and employing illegal-workers for the past 50 years. This is the same American commerce that every time there is a downturn in the economy pours millions into campaigns to make sure all South American immigrants remain the defacto public enemy #1. This is the same American commerce that cries foul whenever someone wants to regulate or curtail their free-hand ability to foul our food, environment, and financial systems.
Our "enemy" is ignorance, prejudice and greed. Political ideologues, knowing fear runs high, then try to turn our own hypocrisy into law. About every 5 years or so we have to push them back into their hole. What we have to worry about now is the advantage these ideologues will take using fear as the tool to install gross ignorance into positions of political power.
I feel sympathetic towards innocent children of illegal immigrants. They are victims of their environment and have no control over their circumstances. That said, it is not the American tax-payer's responsibility to provide for their support and welfare.
"Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government." - James Madison
pack em up and send em home..kids shouldnt be part of the mess..its not their fault..WHY are illegals allowed anywhere IF we know they are illegal? If you "tresspassing" illegally on someones land, you can have them arrested, so..the law is the law..illegal in country - deporation...it is crazy that a hospital has to lay off over 200 people because they spend $2mill a month on health services for illegals which they dont pay for. So instead we layoff 200 WORKING americans, who need their jobs because of services going to illegals...only in America !!!
This is what comes from not wearing protection. I hear that the schools are handing out condoms. maybe the parents should start using the condoms too. If there is no control of child birth there will be no control of the school population.
Great!!! Now we need to have STATE INCOME TAX to pay for the ILLEGALS!!!
Send them home and show them the end of the line!!!
The schooling of illegal aliens kids seems like a no brainer [to me anyway].
Prez Barry states that the illegal alien issue is a problem for the federal government and not the business of the individual states so why not send Uncle Sugar the bill for educating the little darlings?
p.s.
I DO agree with the primise that every child without reguard to status needs to have the opportunity to be educated because without an educated population we are facing an even bleaker future!
Ok, they can stay over at my place.
I'll feed 'em, house 'em and deduct 'em; then I'll put 'em to work and take half their pay and call ICE at midnight when they're asleep, toss a net on my place and haul 'em back, just like the good old days.
Comment removed by moderator. Language.
airweare,
Keep your socialist hands OFF my strawberries!
Nevada has become a Sanctuary State and has and is doing so on the backs of the taxpaying citizens. VOTE OUT THE INCUMBENTS.
I doubt there is going to be any huge spike in enrollment. Arizona's economy is simply better than our's right now and that will keep many there and the ones who leave will go to cities that are recovering faster than Las Vegas.
Call me crazy, but I have no doubt we are A ways better off with the presence of illegals in our systems. Look at all the great jobs they CREATE!
Not just the home building that's everywhere to see, not just the McDonalds, Walmart and warehouse crews supplying corporate America, but the the back-lash jobs. How 'bouta pile of the six million bucks that Rush drags home after a week or so of howling about these terrible BROWNS?
Think of the zeros after all those other numbers in the budgets for roundin 'em up. haulin' 'em back, fightin fer their rights, advocating for their lives, saving their chances and of course highly paid bloggity bloggers like Patty Gibbons and the whitesock, pounding out the news/fiction about how awful foreigners are, like Arnold.
Yo celeritas,
thanks for the tip. They're yummy.
Come by for some retro-treats! Strawberries and...
love,
Air
airweare, you seem to have your head caught in an area most of us will never venture.
If I found myself in their situation, I would be hopping the fence and taking the long hot walk to try to make a better life in America, too.
Nonetheless, at what point does it get flat out ridiculous to ask ppl who can barely feed their families, assuming that they can, to keep paying for other ppl who weren't supposed to move in anyway?
Seriously, can someone answer that question for me?
Here is a great idea, If mexico wants us to support them and their children let them pay for it. The CCCD can send them a bill!! the State of nevada can send them a bill for all other expenses!!
They already started coming here at the end of last school year when the law was announced
@Babyboomer:
"All top of all this "mess" I resent in the strongest way those...WHO after being in this country legal or illegal for 20 plus yrs STILL have not learned a single word of english. Sorry.English is and will remain this countries ONLY language."
=====
Don't be so sure of that. Your politicians will gladly provide amnesty and give away the right to vote in the hopes of gaining a vote or two for themselves. Of course, there is no guarantee who they will vote for. However, you can be fairly certain that they won't be voting to make English the official language.
=====
Why aren't the laws against hiring illegal aliens enforced?
Ms. Richmond, please respectfully request that the 'Clark County Schools ponder' what improvements they need to make in order to provide a quality education to its customers. Thank you in advance.
We wonder what a State would be like if all of the illegals moved to it? Could happen.
pmmart each country of the world has it's own citizens to whom they take care of and govern.
Our constitution has never stated that we are responsible for any illegal immigrant. Why is Reid and Obama trying to rewrite our laws that won't do a thing to benefit our citizens? Shouldn't they be upholding our laws that are written now?
Their priorities are not focused with our citizens.
Cognastics our government wants us to feel sorry for these federal law breakers and forget that these people are keeping citizens from working because they take work away from us. It's O.K. They've broken federal laws but are good people an deserve to work before citizens do.
Where's the Red, White, and Blue?
Where's our government who is supposed to protect us against these nationals from outside of the U.S? This is not the North American Union. I do not agree that illegal immigrants have a right to live in my country and use U.S. services.
Where is our American U.S. President?
I'm tired of being lied to!
Chuckles let's hope that is the state of confusion, in Mexico.
It is unlikely that llegals would leave Arizona for Nevada when there are no jobs.
Arizona didn't pass an immigration law. There are a lot of immigrants in Arizona, including Hispanics. And they are just as American as any citizen.
The Arizona law instructs police to check for illegals. Not immigrants.
According to most voters in Arizona it is about time.
Celeritas:
I liked your post and the way you think. It shows you have insight and a higher level of intellect. The issue (as I see it) is you are trying to communicate it to the same people that are the target audience of the misleading information.
I applaud you if you are able to get through to them for my attempt have not gone well.
Airwears
Don't you mean Airhead?
airweare you're doing such a good job making an a$$ out of yourself all we have to do is read. Oh AW, we have been practicing laws here for quite some time now. You should study them so you don't make a fool out of yourself again. Don't mind me I'm enjoying your stupidity!
No one wants to punish or harm innocent children. But as long as anchor babies are legal, this problem will never go away. The U.S. is the only major country that allows anchor babies. This right given via the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution after the Civil War was intended to secure rights for the then newly freed slaves and new legal citizens of the U.S.
The illegal aliens who intentionally take advantage of this amendment that is not intended for them or to provide for illegal entry into the U.S., are responsible for the plight of their children.
When we do finally pass the inevitable 'comprehensive immigration' law, it should include legislation and/or a constitutional amendment to clarify and reverse the 14th amendment. As no newly freed slaves exist today, this amendment is both unnecessary and destructive to the security of the U.S. Children of illegal aliens invading our home should not automatically become citizens as a birthright. They should be governed by the same immigration laws of this sovereign couontry that allow America to control it's borders, determine who is admitted and who is not, according to it's needs and to insure that violators are punished and deported.
Then, much of the incentive to come here illegally will go away. Temporary guest worker programs that allow those from other countries to come here - legally - for a limited period of time but require them to leave and make room and opportunities for others are fine. Employer enforcements and controls are required. Tamper proof IDs are required. Effective and enforced federal tracking mechanisms are required.
But, automatic citizenship for anchor babies, the bribery of the system by the parents of anchor babies and the importation of family members after the fact should be eliminated. When mom and dad have to work, then bring grandparents, sisters, brothers and cousins over to help take care of the children and then in turn each creates a new or extended family we have a perpetual and exponential problem that will result in the destruction of American freedom and prosperity.
If we don't find a solution to stem the flow of illegal entrants from any and all countries on all borders, America for our children and grandchildren will be just another third world country. The American experiment will be over and the American dream will be dead.
We are killing Americas right to self determination and succumbing to the ravages of international anarchy. In the end this results in just another form of wealth redistribution, apparently a goal of the current administration, and the last.
Controlled legal immigration is desired and useful. Uncontrolled illegal immigration is destructive and divisive.
The time to act is now before it is too late.
fremmas,
airweare, you seem to have your head caught in an area most of us will never venture.
Please describe this 'area' and what else there is so I'll know where I am and what I am missing!
Please! I'll mow your lawn. Trim your shrubs. Wash your windows. Pick the grapes from your vineyards. Play classical twelve string with my family mariachi band at your wedding. Teach you soul.
I can't believe that I, of all ignorant elements, happen to be tho ONLY one with the glaring solution. It is SO CLEAR!
51 solves the crises all over the place.
Great land deals with oceanfront views, jobs in construction, roads, schools, hospitals.
Kind of a windfall of freedom, prosperity, unity and brotherhood.
It's not it's my idea or anything; it just seems such a natural compromise that blends without cutting no baby in two.
Gabo approves; nobody messes with Gabo.
Hopefully Clark County has ENOUGH BRAINS to do a SSN search on each student, and parents.
If they are legal, welcome!!! More people/taxes the better.
Sorry, 7mountains,
laws.
Laws? Its mandatory for them to put the students SSN on their application is it not? Its Clark County's due diligence to run that SSN to make sure its valid, is it not?
What am I missing here?
How many languages in the European Eunion?
How many homes do American families claim?
When do the magic marker boundaries dissolve? Are they gone when the Jap made the money and gave it to the crout who built the gun that freed the baklava to feed the hungry baby in Tibet?
Incredibly tiny pile of bugs on one floating blue ball circled by a shiny thing.
And instead of dancing and dining, they fought and hated their place all up until somebody pulled the fuqin plug.
yo 7,
I think what you may choose to blur is the five grand that kajings the Accounts Receivable for each Juan and Maria what's their name.
If this was queens land still none of this would be happening. Brits would have closed the borders and told Mexico to fix it before it re-opened. None of this constitutional BS, ship em out, no questions asked.
One question to ask, 7,
is if you just wanted to replay the Revolutionary War, 1812 and a few minor skirmishes, why drag all the poor Mexicans into the fray? We'll kick yo limey asses again and again and then make some limey tacos with the shredded and pulled shanks with thanx from the Yanks.
FWIW:
In 1850, 90% of the State of New Mexico residents spoke spanish, while New Mexico's constitution is the only bilingual constitution in the Union -- suggesting to those speaking spanish that they already have a region of America called home as the name New MEXICO aptly implies.
I despise those using children to further their agendas.
: {
Back a few years, I gotta knock on my door in the middle of the night.
My dad wanted me to come with him, Harley.
We had to hitch a ride in the frozen snow and blowing ice flakes in a Colorado night.
I was 8, I think.
Why, papa, why?
Cause chances, honey, are better, for some poor soul on the road to see a kid and a guy and give us a ride than to just give a guy a ride, isn't it funny?
This immigration debate in the Sun is rarely made in the context of global capitalism, neoliberalism, and policies which have created and enabled the huge gaps between rich and poor, and that threaten the future of the US working class.
Why no mention of NAFTA,WTO,World Bank,CIA,US Chamber of Commerce? Are Nevadans that stupid, that they don't know macro-analysis?
Follow the money and the power; it's not in the people you hate and scapegoat.
Tom Shermspun
Great Ruins of Las Vegas Tour
Brass the 14th amendment had to do with black babies born to the freed slaves after the emancipation proclamation. Our recent politicians put a huge slant on the facts that they spun the anchor baby lie. There was no amendment written for illegal aliens having babies in our country. This has been an outright lie and a majority of us have believed it for years.
SEVENHILLS == YOU ARE RIGHT !!!! but will they do that? When I went to school, that "block" was on the registration form..SS# ....
I'm with you Harley.
Understanding power does not license its abuse.
And in their shoes, it's a call too close to the heart to be objective.
They're using what they got, like I would.
Uncle Sam - Regardless of Democrat or Republicans don't want to touch the problem because of the "vote's"..if we give them all amnesty, look at the votes they receive! WRONG !!!!!!! We will show them this November what that vote really means to us Americans..It is the Fedral Gov't responsibility (by the constitution and LAW to defend our states , and provide recorse for immigration..for the Gov't to sue the state of AZ, who are trying to stop a major problem in their state, from crime, services and even murder is insane...Take every person who is here illegally, put them on a bus, hand them the proper forms to fill out, throw their butts back to Mexico and say "here, when you fill these out, mail them in and when we process them, we would MORE THAN WELCOME to have you in our country...but until then, stay home until you can come here with documentation.!!
Illegals should just head straight to CA from AZ -- that's where all the handouts and welfare is being doled out. Plus, the weather is nicer. What illegal in their right mind would come to LV? Makes no sense.
younster, let's pretend we're the school dist.
hi, I'm Juan and this is mi sister, Maria. We live in this dist; here's our power bill and water bill and momma and dads numbers. They're at work til bout seven.
School's right around the corner and we want to be sure to be ready for class. Can we register today?
"Ten grand!'
So are you going to do your job and provide educational services, or are you going to jump under the bus? 'We were swamped. I planned to check after Count Day. My dog ate the numbers...'
The US education system is not helping these non-english speaking people to survive or to succeed in this country. Asians (Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, Filipinos, etc) are spending large amount of their own money to learn english and they became very successful when they come over. They know that being proficient in english is a must for their bright futures because US is the biggest or one of the biggest economy in the world. Just look around, a lot of the Hispanics or non-english speakers who don't want to learn the enlish language are still in the lowest income earners while most of the Asians(who were here only a few years) are driving nice cars and owning nice houses. I say, wake up, smell the coffee, and get rid of the bilingual classes after the second grade because two years is more than enough to learn the english language.
Your hate won't solve the problem. I promise you that.
If you think the viewpoint that the haters represent on the Las Vegas Sun comment section is representative of the public at large, you are sadly mistaken.
Good people can be against "illegal immigration"...and the majority of Americans are...
you can still have compassion for the condition of your fellow brothers and sisters.
The difference between a "legal" citizen and one who isn't is merely an identification number issued by a thief - known as a revenuer.
: {
This is the 21st Century, We can no longer bury our heads in the sand and pretend that anyone who wants to live and work in the U.S.A. can do so at there own whim without following due process. Please come to America Legally!
Maybe Mexico should become the 51st state.
51 solves:
border wars
national security/oil wars
drug supplier wars south of the border
funding shortages along border as services equalize
51 provides:
jobs in building: schools, roads, water treatment, etc.
great new real estate opportunities, oceanfront condo
Cervantes and Gabriel Garcia Marquez hook up with Mark Twain n Eminem
mariachi rock blues echo from Seattle to Oaxaca
bilingual kids begin to go tri-lingual with ease, join planet
Now is the time for immigration enforcement officers to do their jobs and keep them out. They should not be made legal coming here.
They can stay at rory and brians house. They both speak espanol and brian is proud of his heritage. Go stay with them illegals, brian will give you vouchers and rory will make sure you are in an overcrowded classroom...
A new breed of 'basket cases' will be arriving in Old Mexico by the new Attavistic Attache from the north, the emblematic device that delivers the kind of direct impact we like to see!
Sneak in. Fling out! Sneak in, fling out - the flinger!
You would think they would keep track on where students come from so they can properly transition student to new curriculum. It would seem what they were learning where, what books used etc. would be important.
Lots are illiterate in both lingos, mred.
An we pick em up like they land.
I home school my daughter so she doesn't have to put up with a teacher/student ratio of 1/35 which will soon be a ratio of 1/60 if illegals from Arizona head this way into our school system.
If anyone is interested, K12 is a home school program sponsored by the CCSD http://www.k12.com/
Could some entity just enforce the immigration laws? If such a budget-busting issue as illegal immigration isn't enforced, then why do AMERICANS have to abide by all laws? Domestic violence, robbery, rape, murder, etc.. Is there any doubt that these are truly illegal actions? No. So why the sensivity when it comes to ILLEGAL immigrants living and working here in the U.S., at our expense??
It comes down to supply and demand. How about targeting the billion-dollar corporations (and casinos) hiring illegal workers and you will be tackling this issue head-on.
arrest, fingerprint, deport! end birthright citizenship that was meant for slaves!
california is much worse than nevada as far as the illegal immigrant problem and welfare goes. just moved away from the gang capital of the world. the media just paints a different picture of CA. i think nevada is in a good position to nip the problem in the bud right now.
are casinos required to use e-verify? they should be if they aren't.
check out www.numbersusa.com if you haven't yet.
Now would probably be a good time to point out that illegal immigrants are a NET GAIN IN TAX REVENUE. That's right, they generate more money in taxes than they receive in services. Education and emergency care are about all they can get, actually. Meanwhile, they pay all the everyday taxes that everyone else pays, like sales tax, and about 2/3 of them are even paying with false names/numbers into Social Security & Medicare which they will never collect, and income taxes, too. So all you folks shouting about having to pay for illegals: YOU'RE NOT. They're paying for themselves *and* adding to the pot so you pay less.
Also, the supposed thousands of anchor babies keeping their parents in the country don't actually exist. The entire concept is a myth. Illegal parents can still be deported even if they have a kid in the US - the fact that their child is a citizen creates no impediment to deportation whatsoever. A citizen child cannot sponsor their parents to become immigrate until the age of 21, and if their parents are here illegally, he usually can't sponsor them at all. No ability to anchor = no anchor babies.
As to enforcement: the laws ARE being enforced. Deportations hit an all-time high in 2009, even though the illegal immigrant population declined because of the recession.
How many of those railing against Spanish speakers had grandparents or great-grandparents who never stopped speaking German, or Polish, or Swedish, or any of many other languages that immigrants have spoken when coming to America over the past 150 years? How many of you know that the US doesn't actually have an 'official' language? How many of you know that even a hundred years ago local schools and governments across the country were printing materials and even teaching school in the 2nd languages of the people who lived there, NOT just English? None of this is new.
All of this information is available on the web for anyone who feels like informing themselves instead of just stupidly kvetching about "the other". But of course, learning facts and addressing problems from a knowledgeable starting point is much harder than just complaining about problems pulled from thin air and just as substantive.
The level of ignorance in this article's comments is appalling. And before you start attacking the messenger for bias: I am not Hispanic, I was born in the US (as were my parents and grandparents), and I don't have any relatives or friends who are illegal, either. AND the school enrollment issue directly affects me because my kids are enrolled in Clark County schools.
Harry Reid will welcome the illegals with open arms and provide them free health care and voting cards. That's why Harry blocked the ID check for voters because he knows many are illegals but are voting for him.
Airweare: Your first comment deserves an A+ for philosophical throught and creative writing.
You sure kept the discussion moving!
Prophet, I work in healthcare. Are you aware of how much it costs to have a single child? It's more than many illegal workers make in a year! Add to the fact that Families from the south have more children than the general population. It's easy to figure when you suddenly have a huge proportion of Hispanics (almost fifty percent today in Clark country higher than national trends) crushing school district budgets and leading to a decline in quality for all. My point is the costs far outweigh what a poor family pays with their low incomes. If they were a net then all the states with the largest illegal populations be in better financial situations.
The most illegal immigrants in The USA are of Mexican origin.
The problem is not that they come here to work, its that they work under the table, paying no taxes, yet using health care and educational services,
once they have a baby in the USA the baby is a citizen and they have the " right" to stay but seldom apply for citizenship and therefore put a burden on
the economy. there are millions of them in the US today, all of them using services but not paying taxes to support the services they use.....
The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was the peace treaty that ended the Mexican-American War (1846--1848). The treaty provided for the Mexican Cession, in which Mexico ceded 1.36 million km2 (525,000 square miles) to the United States in exchange for USD$15 million.
The United States also agreed to take over $3.25 million in debts Mexico owed to American citizens.
The cession included parts of the modern-day U.S. states of Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, and Wyoming, as well as the whole of California, Nevada, and Utah. The remaining parts of what are today the states of Arizona and New Mexico were later ceded under the 1853 Gadsden Purchase.
Source(s):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_G... Hidalgo
@ ProphetM: Finally a post worth reading. You have obviously done some research. Most Americans would be amazed on what this gov't does for illegals. I know someone that was relocated to the US at the age of three with her parents, went to public schools, graduated with a masters degree from UCLA ( part of it with scholarship money ), works and has a SS card with a PIN number ( issued by the US gov't ), the family owns a restuarant, owns their own home, and pays FULL taxes. They are all 100% illegal!
Moral of the story, if the gov't can make money off of you & maintain being a law abiding person, then you are here to stay.
I think that for ever anchor baby born to the illegals from Mexico, then one automatic full Mexican Citizenship coupon should be issued by the Mexican Federal Government for any US citizen that wishes to exercise fully the rights reserved only for Mexicans, you know like owning land in Mexico,etc. By some guesses, we should have millions of these coupons already, in case we US citizens want to flood into our southern neighbor with no ill consequences. We could gather for huge rallies,just like the Mexican illegals do here,and demand any and all goodies that we can think of, just like the illegals do here. It would even the playing field a bit, don't you think? Instead of Aztlan, the wet dream place of the wackjobs, maybe we could rename some of the border estados American names like South Arizona, South NM, Southern TX, etc.VIVA USA!
the Mexican Takeover
http://www.city-data.com/forum/illegal-i...
Thats it use the childre as shields to bankrupt our country.We do not have the money to support any influx of illegals.Wise up americans we have to stop this nonsense and catch and deport these criminals. We need the guts to pass a similar law to protect our nation.No more Harry Reid he wants amnesty!
JLouise,
heaven has a place for your soul.
With a view and and an angel.
thx for the link blackguy2004j.
airweare: Why do you think that any citizen of this country should be responsible for Juan, or Maria's education, or welfare? This has nothing to do with having compassion, or not having it; it has nothing to do with racism, why are not these Governments taking care of their Citizens? Neither America, nor its Citizens owe any illegal alien squat. Parents should take a stand. Find out what can be done, our Children education, and future are at stake.
I know. It's all a crazy theft, huh?
Kinda like Robin Hood.
Not saying I'm all for impoverishing my fellow Americans to prop up a failing corporatist elite haven for thieves and corruption that our neighbor has become.
Nuking Mexico City or pulling another "Bring it On' wouldn't settle too well. So ya know what we do?
That's right...Nothing except PROFIT from folks getting screwed out of their homeland. At the cost of education for OURS, health care for OURS and you know the list of social treats we heave at any hand in need of a handout.
It's crazy, and if I could get both my brain cells to rub hard, I don't think I could figure out anything better than a trebuchet to launch the illegals back across the river, a basket at a time as a kind of warning.
Sneak in. Fling out. Sneak in - fling out. The Flinger, sung to the tune of the Clapper
I hate to sound like the first one to cry 'Uncle' but if we would just 51, then POOF! Gone are the struggles, joined are the resources and forward we slog, not backwards.
Juan and Johnny, Maria and our little Mary hand in hand, learning how it is, 'stead a finger-pointin and toe scuffin.
Pretty chicken, huh, pretty 'joker-to-the-thief' thinking there might be some kind of way out a here
That's a quote from All Along the Watch Tower. Fits, huh?
But 53,
to answer your question,
"Why do you think that any citizen of this country should be responsible for Juan, or Maria's education, or welfare
because we can.
An if the shoe were on the other foot, you know, some brown kid would be making tacos for me and fred and donna after we worked the fruit trees and picked the grapes for their light sparkling vino.
Yeah, we're gettin screwed and it's because they're gettin screwed and had to share the shank. It sucks; do not interpret my optimism as acquiescence. We have priorities that are blowing away dry from lack of attention.
Desperation sucks.
Grace under pressure defines our moment and our metal. I couldn't turn you away any more than I could away some little brown guy with poverty so deep it would take an entire drink of water and smile to make his day.
I'm fer 51
Quit the fight; lay down the gun.
Bring on the blenders -
No more kids in the fenders.
51, hombres, amigos
Mariachi blues a'rockin from Seattle to Oaxaca
Your not a victim if u have kids!
they're useing there kids to take over this country and YOU the taxes payers are paying for it.
airweare: Your post don't make sense, I will leave it at that. These "brown children" as you put it; are our Children, hey that's where you got it wrong, They are not my Children or Our Children, these children belong to illegal aliens, their parents, and their government should be taking care of them. I have not asked them to pick not one damn piece of fruit, America can and will survive without illegal aliens. They should get in line, and come to this country the right way, a lot of elections will be won, or lost behind this one issue.
airwear, I read some of your previous comments, you are a damn fool. By the way Harry Reid voted against a bill that would have made English the National, and official Language; nice going Harry. Voters please look at Senator Reids recond on Illegal immigration, the also voted against building a border fense, I'm sure aireare would like knowing that.
You're right 53.
They ain't ours. They're theirs.
Illegal is illegal and I have no ground to argue at all in any way.
They are absolutely unconnected to me or you or any other taxpayer except by fraud, deceit and breaking the law.
And that's the way it is. On one level.
53,
the post that did not make sense is dumb. I was suggesting that perhaps annexing Mexico as the 51st state would address the apparent need of those wet backs to wade their way into our country illegally.
Yes it is very very chickensh*t of me to suggest giving up on the idea of two countries when one is corrupt as hell and so is the other!
But that was what I was getting at, trying to marry up the Mariachi Mexican thing with the American blues and rocking from Seattle (northern US) to Oaxaca (southern Mexico)
I won't be dumb tomorrow. I'll be mending fence with the kids and making ice cream with the wife so enjoy an air-free moment of respite from stupidity.
That sky has never had so many stars. Nice night out here. Goodnight city dwellers from your country cousin, living off the vapors of bovine ice cream machines that make mustaches and lattes, rib eyes and bank on the sun.
"it's a take over"
the big picture:
Think of this, 20 years from now, you and your wife, kids and grandkids being drug out of your home and shot on out in the street, White's, Black's, .......All Americans
Those cute little babies of today are the ones doing it tomorrow.
airweare: This country is facing some very serious political issues,we are on a cross road in many different areas. I want apologize for being serious; we are in serious times, there are foreigner here who we don't even have a clue of who they are,or where they came from. Some Kill and harm American Citizens, leave from one area to the next. My duty is to God first, however there is justice,and law, neither have illegal aliens observed. Secondly; these corrupt politicians like Senator Reid who look the other way, and Businessmen who hire illegal immigrants are selling this country down the tubes, one ancor baby said, if you get rid of the illegals. who will cook your food,wash your cloths, or baby sit your children, or pick you fruit, or build your houses, I say to her, if your people are that good; do it in your own country, President Bush was wrong when he said " these people are doing the work that Americans want do". That was one of the stupidist things I'd ever heard a U.S President say; oh except for President Obama, He should be ashamed of himself for not supporting the Laws in Arizona, these border states are being overran, and he is literally telling the state government to shut up, and sit down, Comes November the democrats will see how Mad the American voter are.
ProphetM. You are 100 Percent wrong. you numbers are out of wack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTwO457C8...
Sorry, folks, imho, you might be commenting on the Arizona subject, but what we are really discussing here is the issue of globalisation. We are no longer living in a box or at a countryside village where everybody knows everyone. The whole world has become a village.
If I had someone selling my banana on the streets for $1 per hour 'under the table', of course I would employ him, because it would be great for my little business, same as it would be for big businesses like hotels/casinos to hire those folks for working 'under the table'.
The world is a free market and so are the US. Everything contributing to hotels/casino making their way through this recession should be legal in Vegas. And I'm not kissing butt right now.
Today as a local/global worker you have to continuously develop/work on your skills to cope up with fellow workers from all countries of the world, so keep learning/using your brain, what's the big deal? And if this implicit obligation implies to learn Spanish, let's do it! It's not so hard. I am always proud when working together with people, who were not born in my country, because to me that means being able to cope up with international competition.
Entonces, companeros, hablamos espanol, por que hoy dia la lengua espanola se ha convertido en una lengua muy importante. Que haces?
Recuerdos
Banana_Joe
Let's change it a bit. Count blessings.
Espanol is a very beautiful language, based on the Latinate grammar that parallels English in many ways, sharing similar language traits and even lexicon.
Kids like to show off, demonstrate, hog the spotlight.
Kids like to share.
Kids benefit from learning from anyone, especially their peers.
So, TAA DAA, get the English speaking kids to teach English to the browns; get the Espanol specialists to empower the gringo.
Peerless progress through mutual respect-building exercises aimed at the boundaries, the cross-overs and the quirks. Kids'll get it.
Language 101 including short teachers that don't know everything, yet.
Sorry, airweare, I could not make it, not this time, to get your point. Do you have a problem with learning a new language, or how does your comment relate to a problem of globalisation or Arizona's immigration problem?
Btw, in Switzerland they speak 3-4 official languages, the kids naturally do learn at school: French, Rhaetian, Italian, German. What's the big deal? Imho to be given the opportunity to learn any foreign language in your younger years is a true blessing without disguise.
Regards
Banana_Joe
Joe,
let kids teach each other their own languages. Little Spanish speaker teaching little English speakers how they say bathroom, sunlight, party.
They'll learn more, improve their self-esteem and understanding of others, of how lingos go, and how they may be different but they're like me too.
Sorry I'm such a disaster and can't make sense; not sleepin good.
air
Once they get language number 2, then jumping to 3 and 4 or whatever gets WAY easier, especially when they're young, playful and stretchy inside.
Good point, the younger someone is the easier it is to learn a new language, got it, thanks for sharing, airweare, that's what I was also talking about.
If you're in Vegas as a tourist, let me recommend to you to do some jogging at 6:30 a.m. (at minimum 40 minutes), get back to your hotel room, take a shower and some decent breakfast (buffet) and lay down for a rest at 9:30 a.m. until you wake up. Try to avoid the midsummer heat when getting out for the casino round or some sightseeing tour. Put some stetson and some shades on. In the evening when getting back try not to be completely boozed up avoiding a headache the next morning. Take care, airwear... :).
Get yourself some sleep whenever you're in need. It's your Vegas Vacation... :):)
Regards
Banana_Joe
ProphetM.....I worked for many years for the Department of Social Services in another state. Here are the facts:
"Emergency Med" has nothing to do with actual medical emergencies. This term is used to enroll mostly pregnant foreign nationals in the program. Yes, the majority are from Mexico. Since when was being pregnant an emergency? The state/county will then provide medical care for these women past 60 days of the baby's delivery. The baby will then automatically qualify for Medicaid for 1 year. After the baby's birth, the mother then qualifies for food stamps, cash, wic and housing assistance for the child. Many of my clients had another baby year after year. One in particular had 8 children, a live-in working boy friend and cleared more in money and benefits than I did working for a living AND paying taxes.
Our county also had the "advisors" for these illegal aliens. They charge fees for "helping" these illegal women get all they can get for free.
Yes, the children are innocent pawns in the scheme for illegals to fleece the american tax payers. These mothers should return to their home land WITH their children. Saying that "families being torn apart" is just idiotic. A true mother would take their child with her. I cetainly wouldn't leave my child behind.
Did I mention that I am a naturalized citizen and proud of it?
AMEN richka321!!!