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AP Photo/Scott Sady
Gov. Jim Gibbons, center, answers questions with candidates Brian Sandoval, left, and Mike Montandon during the Republican gubernatorial debate in Reno on Friday, April 23, 2010.
By J. Patrick Coolican (contact) 
, David McGrath Schwartz
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 | 2 a.m.
Reader poll
Sun Archives
Sun Coverage
The three Republican candidates for governor threatened to rouse the Hispanic electorate last week during a televised debate, when Brian Sandoval and Mike Montandon endorsed an Arizona law that critics say could lead to widespread racial profiling of Hispanics.
A third candidate, Gov. Jim Gibbons, endorsed racial profiling.
The Arizona law, which was signed last week by Gov. Jan Brewer, compels local and state law enforcement to question the identity and immigration status of people if there is reason to believe they are not here legally. Those who cannot produce evidence of legal status could face six months in jail and a $2,500 fine.
Proponents of the law say its deterrent effect would curtail the number of immigrants here illegally.
A 2009 Pew Hispanic Center study put Arizona’s illegal immigrant population at 500,000 and Nevada’s at 230,000.
The law forbids using race, ethnicity or national origin as the only criteria for suspicion that someone is here illegally, but critics say it will be impossible to implement without widespread racial profiling.
Maggie McLatchie of the American Civil Liberties Union of Nevada said the law “explicitly allows for race to be a factor to consider when police stop someone.”
“We do not think this is a good idea for Nevada. It turns a fundamental principle of innocent until proven guilty on its head,” she said. “You need to carry papers on you at all times. It’s un-American.”
Montandon, former North Las Vegas mayor, and Sandoval, a former federal judge and Nevada attorney general, endorsed the Arizona measure.
Gov. Jim Gibbons didn’t answer the question directly, but said the following: “Racial profiling should be for terrorism. If you look like and act like a terrorist, if you’re coming across as a bad person, you’re going to do harm to our citizens, whether it’s deal drugs, commit crime or commit a terrorist act. Absolutely we ought to profile everybody that looks like a terrorist. I don’t have a problem with that.”
Gibbons’ apparent belief that terrorists look a certain way has been belied by recent American history when attacks have been launched by whites such as Timothy McVeigh, a Nigerian in the case of the Christmas bomber arrested in Detroit, as well as those of Middle Eastern descent on 9/11.
Gibbons then added: “But if they want to have a racial profile of Irishmen, then I’m going to question that.” It wasn’t clear whether he was referring to the long history of Irish terrorism, or whether he was saying whites should not face the same scrutiny as racial and ethnic minorities.
Although the crowd at the televised Reno debate loved the responses — mere mention of the Arizona law got some of the loudest applause of the night — the immigration portion of the debate could turn out to be politically perilous for the party.
Political analysts had predicted Democrats would struggle to motivate Hispanics to vote after they failed to deliver on immigration reform following the election of President Barack Obama.
Even though the jury is out on whether Congress will pass an immigration bill in coming months, the Arizona law — and rhetoric like that from Gibbons — could provide an opening for Democrats to energize Hispanic voters this November. And although an Arizona-style crackdown on illegal immigration will appeal to the Republican base, that group was already motivated by anger over the new health care law and bank and auto company bailouts.
“They sprinted to the right. There’s no mistaking that,” UNLV political scientist Dave Damore said of the GOP candidates for governor. “And that is not a recipe for success in a swing state.”
Republican candidate for governor Mike Montandon, right, and Gov. Jim Gibbons share some light banter during the Republican gubernatorial debate in Reno on Friday, April 23, 2010.
Eric Herzik, a UNR political scientist, said being tough on illegal immigration is the right position to take in the Republican primary, and to a lesser extent, in the general election. But he said there’s a downside.
“If you say ‘build a wall and throw them over,’ it doesn’t appeal to Latinos and many general election voters. It’s not particularly good long-run politics,” he said.
Herzik cited Sandoval in particular for potentially losing his appeal among Hispanic voters and moderates despite his outreach to those voters and his Hispanic heritage.
Immigration has been a difficult issue for Sandoval since he began his campaign. In response to a question from a Hispanic businesswoman, he flirted with the idea of giving illegal immigrants driver’s licenses but later came out against it.
Luis Valera, chairman of the Las Vegas Latin Chamber of Commerce, which opposes the Arizona law, seemed incredulous when asked about Sandoval’s support for it: “I know Brian. I know he has told me he would never support anything that leads to racial profiling. Not only from a moral standpoint, but it would not stand up to a constitutional challenge.”
Asked to respond to Sandoval’s unequivocal answer, he said, “I’d ask him for a clarification on it.”
Sandoval issued a statement at the request of the Sun.
“Racial profiling is illegal and I do not support it,” the statement read. “I do understand the Hispanic community’s concerns about this law and believe Arizona officials must pay close attention to the implementation of the new law.”
Information from the Associated Press was used in this report.
I hope Nevada follows Arizona on this law...Illegal is Illegal it doesn't take a MENSA member to figure out that some one who doesn't speak English at all or stumble with it are probably illegal.People keep forgetting that there is also illegals here from Eastern Europe,Asia(Vist a massage parlor)India(Doctor's with expired work visas) and yes even Canada.I do think Latinos were the target with this law but when a group of people yes you know who you are..Rub every one's nose in your lack of respect for our country while fleecing the system people get sick and tired of it after awhile and make laws to right the situation.So if this law offends you either your a criminal or your aiding or profiting from one or more.
I wish every time they hold a rally protesting Arizona new law I.C.E. would show up in a couple of semi trucks and watch all of the illegal criminals run for cover.
most of the company stores restaurant hire illegal. is any1 going to work on the housing tract job. working pennies on the dollars. no one will the work job the illegal does. if go to hispanic grocery store they very busy. they sure do spend alot money
again, another headline by the LV Sun that skews the real issue, the truth....that is this is about ILLEGAL...not racial profiling. No wonder why our country is so screwed up...its the media, such as rags like the Sun to blame
@novaseline: you are very correct. generally its the media that puts the spin on things instead of getting to the point.
@perry: at work yesterday a man came in looking for work. not an illegal but a guy with a family that offered to clean the parking lot or rake rocks for a buck. don't give us that the illegals will do any job and others won't. and by the way any employer that has illegals no matter what origin should be held accountable and fined. housing tract job thats funny. thats why these homes are so low grade.
The Arizona law is the single BEST piece of legislation that has come down the pike in MANY years! It's great! we will get rid of all of the illegal blood suckers on our social programs, and send them back where they came from. Also it will tell others who want to try and come over here illegallly and break our laws, that they will NOT be tolerated!!!
The GOP continue to blather, openly, their racist and discriminitory party views and it is sickening. Greed and power are the ONLY goals of the GOP, and they will do whatever it takes to reclaim power over our country, even if it means dividing our country--at the expense of our country. The GOP produce lie after lie, they ARE pathological liars.
The GOP hate. They hate people who do not look like them--who are not White, and fight like mad dogs for inequality and division, they hate Choice, hate the LGBT community, hate unions that represent the people--they hate everything that IS America. The GOP ARE UN-American and their party of HATE must be voted out of office, one hypocritical republican at a time.
If it is racists for a police officer or INS to drive by Home Depot and see the Hispanics lined up for work and then ask them for ID.
Then it is also racists for the Democratic party to go looking for Hispanics and ask them to join the Democratic party.
One is trying to enforce the law.
The other is just purely trying to gain more power.
The dopey Gibbons Monkey will do whatever is politically popular in the heat of the moment, with absolutely no interest or understanding of the ramifications of his actions. He is a true American Idiot.
There is no way around it; This method of law enforcement is the very definition of racial profiling.
Blaming the current Presidential Administration for failing to act on Immigration Reform is rubbish. (Like they all came over the border in the past year.)
If you Neo-Con Nutjobs were so damned concerned about "illegals", why didn't you have your boys Reagan/Bush do something about it, besides ENCOURAGE IT and, in Dutch's
case, actually grant amnesty, which, of course, just encouraged another deluge.
Why do you HATERS have to act so gleeful and demon-like in your relish of the thought of human beings being treated like cattle? That is sick, man.
Looks like I may be voting Republican this year - as long as it's not Gibbons. On the other hand, if we see a Democrat who has the courage to support this, how refreshing that would be. Best yet would be a really good third party candidate who supports it, and who supports other COMMON SENSE government.
Brian Sandoval is racist? Who knew?
Someone needs to punish those businesses in Arizona who have not compiled with using E-Verification of the employees they hire. As usually, the GOP spreads it's cheeks wide for corporations and craps on the human.
The tough anti -illegal immigration law in Arizona is one that needs to be replicated around the nation in states besieged by swarms of illegals . The amnesty seeking demonstrators who are against the law claim the new law, which gives law enforcement more freedom to pursue illegal immigrants, will increase racial profiling and threaten human rights.
"Racial profiling" is code expression in today's social lexicon which infers in the realm of "political correctness"that we should not go there. This is not realistic. We must go there. Law enforcement officials and proactive legislators who support the new law maintain the law prohibits "racial profiling".
Turn the situation around, and assume that countless millions of white Americans were flooding across the border illegally into Mexico. Would the Mexican government stop and question Mexicans? This would be an insane policy. The same is true in the current case in Arizona.
In the interests of supporting the rule of law, law abiding Mexican Americans should welcome the rule of law in America, and accept the fact that the new law is required to turn around years of neglect by several Federal administrations responsible for protecting the border against the vast invasion by illegal immigrants.
The liberals' response to this crisis is amnesty for these lawbreakers.
This is like giving amnesty to looters who are racing through businesses and stealing
during a civil commotion based on the premise that they are poor, and are only seeking these stolen goods for their survival. This would be wrong, and so is the looting that is going on in America today by illegal immigrants.
Nevada could reduce the illegal alien population if the governor issued an executive order requiring any company doing business with the state or receiving any state funding (Casinos Included) use E-Verify. If they cannot find work they will leave, not a perfect plan but it is a start. We all know the Democrat Legislature will never do anything to stop or prevent illegal aliens from comming to or working in Nevada. They hope for an amnesty and see illegals as a future pool of Democrat voters and envision a Democrat dynasty in Nevada that will last for ever.
I don't really give a rat's ass if it's racial profiling or not, it's time to do something about this huge problem. Hey... how can it be RACIAL profiling if most of these hispanically cultured individuals are Caucasian... I guess that means that they are targeting and profiling "white dudes" right?
Can we have the police pull over stupid whites who vote Republican and look for any illegal actions? It would be fun to see all the skeletons slink out of the closet.
Is not the Democratic party racist for targeting Hispanics?
Pretty Boy Brian is super arrogant if he thinks hispanics are going to line up behind him just on the basis of his name and somehow "forget" that he endorsed state-sponsored racial profiling. But then again, he forgot that he signed the Question 2 Defence of Marriage Pledge (before later saying he was for domestic partnerships) so I guess anything is possible.
He'll say anything to get elected, apparently. Those Republicans are all the same: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lVVGaMw7...
Never mind that this law is unconstitutional.
A lot of fear and hate here, as usual.
Remember apartheid in South Africa? It wasn't rush to pass a wide range of laws: it was little steps made by scared old white people. Sound familiar.
Laws passed in fear don't hold up but it takes time for them to be set aside. If you're non-white in Arizona, carry your birth certificate.
I'm confused as to why people think the law is unconstitutional. If someone is pulled over for violating a traffic law, they have to supply the officer with ID, regardless of race. If you don't have ID or can't support the fact that you are here legally you are breaking the law. There is nothing in the constitution that allows illegals rights in this country. Some argue that all of us are immigrants, my ancestors were immigrants, the only difference is, they did it legally.
Hell where's the wisdom of Solomon.. Let it
be racial profiling 2% against drain of
15% to state and federal budget. Politicos
face it head on. The reality is bitter but
better
1st how is it the greed of the GOP that is pointed out by nors. The dems are looking for more voters themselves to stay in power. They do not care one bit about the living conditions, the risks they take walking across the desert nor the ability of some crooked employers that take advantage by mearly threatening to expose the illegal.
Hearded like cattle is what the GOP is doing? The GOP is not cramming 30 people in a 15 passenger van or having 50 people stay in a 3 bedroom flophouse so spare me.
Carrying papers, if you come here legally and get the proper card it is a matter of carrying a card like I carry a driver's license. If all states would require proof of legal entry to get a license part of the problem gets solved. For those that do not drive can still get a state id. My grandmother had one of those 20 years ago. I need some form of gov't id to do my banking so it is not the issue that one side would want you to believe.
Yes we have illegals from all over the world in this country. All would face the same law here in AZ. It just so happens that last estimate was over 400,000 illegals in AZ were hispanic so the odds are very good that more hispanics are illegal than any other race in AZ.
I am concerned about racial profiling with this law. But lets see how it is enforced before all those in the media do their profiling on the cops and how they will enforce the law.
For far too long now illegals and their organizations have given the finger to immigration laws in the US, it is time to do something about it.
Yes Dutch was very wrong to give amnesty in the 80's to all those illegals, but even worse nothing was done to fix the problem in the last 20 years to stop it from getting to this point.
I know I have seen siome comments on other stories about crime stats, yes more crime is commited by legal residents than illegals, which is pretty normal.
But a friend lost a loved one to a drunk driver that was here illegally and twice had conatct with law enforcement over another DUI and another offense. But nobody checked the status because they couldn't.
I know it is a small number like the serial rapist that was here illegally that attacked 7 girls from 12-15 years old in Chandler AZ.
I ask those that think it is a small number if you would be willing to trade your child for one of those? Not likely.
LETS ELECT MORE REPUBLICANS!!!!BUSH,GIBBONS,ENSIGN,SUE LOWDEN THEY ARE SURE TO FIX ALL THE PROBLEMS RIGHT!!!!
See no evil (Cover your eyes Sandoval), (cover your ears Gibbons)hear no evil, (Cover your mouth Montandon),speak no evil.
WHY NOT MAKE IT A LAW???
THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE ARE ALREADY THINKING WHEN THEY SEE A LATINO!!!
"The liberals' response to this crisis is amnesty for these lawbreakers."
--------------------
"The massive new immigration initiative unveiled by the White House has Democrats and ethnic identity organizations accusing Republicans of election-year pandering, and has the Republican base wondering whether George W. Bush and the Republican Party has sold them out.
The initiative, which draws heavily on legislation already introduced in Congress by three Arizona Republicans, Sen. John McCain and Rep. Jeff Flake and Rep. Jim Kolbe, has two central components. It would provide a mechanism by which some U.S. businesses would be able to import an unlimited number of low-wage foreign workers, and it would allow most of the roughly 10 million illegal aliens already in the United States a means by which they (and their extended families) would be able to remain legally -- and permanently -- in the United States."
- From FOX News, 2004 (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,1076...)
The pro-reform politicians are the ones racially profiling by supporting reform. It is soley to get hispanic votes. They could care less about the USofA and would destroy this great country just to get some votes.
Go Arizona!!! America IS behind you!
I GUESS THE US CONSTITUTION DOESN'T APPLY TO BROWN PEOPLE
I have been unemployed since 7/25/08. Get these ILLEGALS out (which is law), so I can find a job!!!
@shannonk: how do you figure that this law is unconstitutional. please recite in it where it says that it is.
RUDDOG :
The Constitution applies to all LEGAL Citizen brown people dummy!!
No the Constitution affords benefits only to citizens of the United States. It doesn't see in color.
Comment removed by moderator. Comment was in all caps.
"If you look like and act like a terrorist, if you're coming across as a bad person, you're going to do harm to our citizens, whether it's deal drugs, commit crime or commit a terrorist act. Absolutely we ought to profile everybody that looks like a terrorist..."
If you come across as a bad person? Funny, but I don't remember seeing the "look like a bad person" clause in the Constitution. And you idiots actually think Obama is out to "take away our freedoms"?
This is an outrage!
I can be stopped by the cops just for being Hispanic according to Gibbons.
I work hard, I went through grad school, I pay probably more in taxes than your average wage earner, I'm a law-abiding citizen, and yet, because of my ethnicity I can be subjected to being stopped by the police.
And this is okay with Gibbons? I NEVER play the race card, but this is very, very disappointing and very disconcerting.
Supporters of Gibbons, and more so, those that continue to support this nonsense of his, should be ashamed of yourselves.
As I've said countless times, the problem of illegal immigration is real, however, as with 9/11 you cannot simply round up a whole entire ethnicity or race or religion and through them all under the bus.
And if you seriously come here and post comments defending these comments, shame on you. Shame on you!
Meant to say I pay more in taxes then the salary of the average wage earner.
Regardless, this is a very sad day in Nevada, indeed.
Don't fall for the knee-jerk, throw the baby out with the bath water mentality, people.
If you have a migraine headache, the solution isn't cutting your head off.
Let's address illegal immigration while protecting the rights of all Americans.
@ Braedo - you can't find a job because you lack useful skills AND education.
@chuck321:
14th Amendment: "1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
4th Amendment: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
"Looking illegal" isn't probable cause and racial profiling violates the 14th Amendment.
How can u tell if a latino is illegal??
The governor of arizona cant tell, she said she didnt know,but on the other hand made it the law the be reasonably suspicious of being one,im sure that also includes white folks rightt??
Let the people in Arizona decide who looks, is, and will forever be an Illegal Mexican wandering the streets of Arizona. People forget that States' Rights are more important in that State than any central government law. I commend the people of Arizona for standing up to the ineffectual federal government in immigration matters.
Holy cow, Pierre! I just posted the 14th Amendment which completely forbids what you just suggested.
The only thing that is un-American are the hundreds of thousands of illegal moochers in this state. Nice smoke screen by the progressives, they always love to play the race card, racial profiling, bigotry, hatred, prejudiced, classic liberalism 101. People that are not legal citizens are not entitled to benefits in this country. Take away their benefits at every level and they will begin to trickle back to their countries. If they have SS cards they obtained them illegally, it's called identity theft, ever heard of that?
You socialists only care about one thing, absolute power, no matter who you have to screw over to get there. As long as you can shove your communistic, Obammunistic, marxist, revolution garbage down the throats of the American people thats all that matters, isnt it? By the way I am not republican either I am 100% pro American!!
BetOnBlack said, "Nice smoke screen by the progressives, they always love to play the race card, racial profiling, bigotry, hatred, prejudiced, classic liberalism 101."
Nope. It's called following the Constitution. Violating U.S. citizens' rights in the process of trying to find illegal aliens is not the way to go about solving the problem of illegal immigration.
If you really want to stop illegal immigration, hit employers (anyone who hires an illegal alien, including people who pick up day laborers) hard with jail time as well as a fine. No jobs, no illegal aliens. Simple.
I oppose illegal immigration. Which brings me to a question. Why do they come here? My guess--I can't know for sure--is for jobs. And this I know for sure: many business owners hire illegal immigrants and know they are doing so. Why are we not prosecuting them? They are breaking the law. If they can't get jobs, would they come here in such large numbers? I am inclined to think not.
Now to the candidates. Jim Gibbons is proof that it is possible to look like a human being but actually be from another planet. And if I were Brian Sandoval, if I campaigned down in Laughlin, I wouldn't cross the border because I might not make it back if I don't have my papers. You see, Mr. Sandoval has a Latino-sounding name, and might just strike some people as looking Hispanic, even if his comments demonstrate something else entirely.
I beleive the law sayes everyone has to carry ID. If the legal hispanics are so worried, maybe they should police their own ranks, instead of harboring them.
I love Sherriff Arapayo of Phoenix a real Mexican American. At an illegal immigration rally in Phoenix thousands of illegals showed up to protest the state, well the Phoenix PD also showed up with a bunch of paddy wagons and rounded up hundreds of illegals and dump trucked them back to the border, gotta love it.
In Arizona the fines are outrageous for employers who hire illegals, along with criminal prosecution and you will lose your business liscense. I hope every Arizona law is adopted across the great USofA.
Listen up, halfwits. The police are not going to restrict their "he looked like a bad guy" powers to just brown people. If you really love our coutry, DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION.
@Enviroperson
You might want to look into it before you call anyone a dummy.
"the rights of both citizens and non-citizens are protected by the US Constitution. However, there are some right specifically reserved for citizens, such as the right to a Federal job and to vote."
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_the_US_Co...
Not at all surprising that this was Sandoval's answer:
"Racial profiling is illegal and I do not support it," the statement read. "I do understand the Hispanic community's concerns about this law and believe Arizona officials must pay close attention to the implementation of the new law."
Could it get vaguer. we know you want to appeal to all the voters you can get, but maybe you should pick a side and stick to it so we know what we are getting should you make it to the capitol. Still have no idea who you are.
"Looking illegal" isn't probable cause and racial profiling violates the 14th Amendment.
ShannonK
'Nuff said.
ShannonK, you are dillusional. The Constitution is not for those who are here illegally, it does not apply to them. How have your rights been violated? Nevada doesn't go after illegals, or try to find them at all.
I think the Arizona law is great, it really opens up the way for some exciting possibilities. For instance, how about a law that allows police to stop anyone on suspicion they may be carrying an illegal firearm? They could concentrate first on whites with trucks and confederate flag decals. Too many illegal guns around in the hands of the wrong people is very dangerous. Another law we can come up with is stopping anyone who looks like they may have beat their wife. You can usually spot those guys a mile away. Big beefy guys with a scowl on their face are so obvious. If they can't prove they haven't beat their wife upon questioning- off to jail they go to face trial. Hell, once we get this thing going we can pass a law that allows police to stop anyone just because they look guilty of doing anything that may be illegal. Why go through the hassle of defining it? It would be a simple umbrella law that can cover illegal immigrants and everything else illegal all at once. If you look guilty of a crime you have to prove you are not - on the spot, or off to jail you go. This would be quite a boon during election time, wouldn't it? But the kicker would be to allow us to sue any police officer who we think is not stopping people who look like criminals, just like they are now going to do in Arizona. There are a lot of speeders in my neighborhood, which is illegal and dangerous. I could then sue the police for not finding them or at least stopping them on the street because they look like suspicious speeders. That will keep the police in line!
@BetOnBlack:
You don't get it...this law violates the rights of American citizens. You claim you are "100% pro American." That means you hold the U.S. Constitution near and dear, something you haven't demonstrated on this forum.
I'll bet this cat wouldn't get profiled in AZ...
http://tinyurl.com/2dfam8q
All of us are supposed to carry ID of some kind. But I do wonder whether the Arizona legislature, and the governor who is too busy having dinner with Sarah Palin to think about real issues, ever heard of the 4th Amendment and prohibitions against unreasonable search and seizure.
Let see how the courts decide this one. Clearly the federal gov't has done nothing to curb the illegals in this country so if this law does nothing other than to spur the feds to control our borders than it's worth it.
Michael, the only people who are required to carry ID are people driving vehicles, and even then, they only need to be carrying the ID while they are operating those vehicles.
For any Democrat or Republican congressperson that is willing to fight against what Arizona is doing to not only protect its own people but to protect its state, they should be brought up on treason charges and aiding and abetting people who are breaking federal immigration laws. Our federal government has wasted years with their decision to remain inactive on this subject. The straw finally broke the camels back when arizona rancher Robert Krentz was murdered while trying to chase illegal aliens off his property. He had been putting up with fences being torn down, his herd escaping through broken fences caused by the undocumented immigrants passing through his ranch. He also suffered some of his herd being slaughtered by immigrants. Finally when trying to protect his property from illegals he was shot and murdered. If our federal government would have been upholding immigration laws on the books this murder would have never happened and Arizona wouldn't have had to take action on their own the way they did.
this is ridiculous. There has to be a better way. I agree that if this law were only used to check people loitering in front of home depot it would be used as intended. the problem is it's not. the hypocritical right back at it again. The 4th amendment obviously means nothing to them as long as we're talking about people that look like "terrorists". Now probable cause has been narrowed down to skin color.
El deseo de votar por Sandoval--aunque habia sido pequeno--se ha desaparecido comletamente de mi mente. Sandoval se ha vendido a los del partido de te por unos cuantos votos de racistas anti-Hispanos. Un voto para Sandoval es voto contra la comunidad.
The desire to vote for Sandoval--however small--has vanished completely from my mind. Sandoval has sold himself to the tea party for a few votes from people who hate him anyway as a tan Republican. A vote for Sandoval is a vote against the Community.
Every candidate and politician who used and supported the phrase "racial profiling" screwed up what could be an effective way of enforcing immigration law. You don't hear racial profiling in most discussions about drug enforcement because they are talking about where drugs and drug dealers are likely to be found. If a cop rolls up in front of a home depot or some landscape nursery and asks all the guys waiting to jump in a truck for a cash paying day job for their ID, is it racial profiling just because 90% of them are hispanic? There is evidence that someone may be an illegal alien besides his or her race. Hanging out in front of a home depot or not being able to read or write the english language can be probable cause to ask for someone's state issued ID.
First I will say that I support control of illegal immigration and that I think the federal government is failing miserably. But we are talking law here and regardless of emotion or desire, constitutional law and federal immigration law must be appropriately examined.
That being said there are many misconceptions in this forum.
1. You are not required to carry ID at all times in the United State unless you are driving. At the same time, if an officer does legally ask for your identifying information in the course of a legal investigation, you are required to tell him it and he can then look it up on their databases. They can also hold you until you have been identified.
2. The Constitution:
a. It applies to all person within the US borders, citizen or not. This is basic constitutional law.
b. The law is unconstitutional not because of profiling, etc, it is unconstitutional because States have no power to pass immigration laws because it's an attribute of foreign affairs. Just as states can't have their own foreign policies or enter into treaties, they can't have their own immigration laws either.
The statute also has an anti-solicitation of workers (often called day laborers) provision of the type that has already been held unconstitutional under the First Amendment, see Town of Herndon v. Thomas, MI-2007-644 (Va. Cir. Ct. Aug. 29, 2007) Comite de Jornaleros de Redondo Beach v. City of Redondo Beach, 475 F. Supp. 2d 952, 962 (C.D. Cal. 2006).
The sheer hypocrisy of the right comes out- let's dress up in Revolutionary garb and complain about our Constitution being attacked by the "socialists." Meanwhile, silence when Bush sends us off to a sham war where we're sending our men and women to die, silence when Bush is wiretapping the phones of regular Americans, silence when the xenophobes in office implement laws racial profiling Americans, silence when Americans of Hispanic descent are targeted unfairly by a state law when the problem is whole industries hiring folks who shouldn't be here.
Hypocrites!
Meanwhile, banks are paying back their loans with interest to the Fed, auto industry are paying back their loans with interest to the Fed, auto industry and Fed working to sell the Fed's stock in that industry, but no, we're forced into socialism. And yet, whole agricultural industries receiving what amounts to welfare and subsidies, no that's not socialism.
Um, right.
I don't hate those that do not look like me... I hate those that come to my country illegally and use the things my tax dollars pay for without contributing. I hate the politicians that defend such illegal actions.
what about the companies that hire them
the person that picks them up in front of home depot,then you should be against anything that bring them here, as well as our broken immigration system
wowww.......imagine what the NATIVE AMERICAN INDIANS felt????????
ShannonK
The passing of this law isn't alone isn't unconstitutional. As a matter of fact, as I mentioned yesterday, this actually mirrors existing federal standards that unfortunately are not being enforced.
Until an authority actually racially profiles a U.S. citizen, no violation has occurred. When it does happen, and I'm sure they'll be watched very closely, that is when a violation, or unconstitutional act, occurs. Let's wait until that happens shall we. Then you and your friends can cry foul.
The way to enforce this is question everyone who applies for a job, seeks medical care, or enrolls for school. That way, there is no profiling, it is applied to all. I do agree with ShannonK to punish the employers but additional measures still need to be implemented.
do you live to hate or hate to live???
Changes that would benefit stopping illegal immigration.
1. The full use of E verify
2. Everyone stop hiring unlicensed cheap labor....yes most valley residents are guilty of this.
3. Eliminate the provision in federal law that allows chain babies. The US is one of the only countries left with this provision that the child of an illegal alien born in the US is automatically a citizen.
4. Change provisions in the federal law so it would require proof of citizenship to attend any school that receives federal funding.
5. Use E verify for all welfare and social support funding
6. Get rid of green cards, the most forged document on earth. Replace it with a 2D encrypted coded E verify card that goes back to a central federal database. The database holds the photo of the holder and all information about them, not the card. IN fact there is no legible information displayed on the card. The only thing the card does is link to a federal database. Forging is not an option. Provide all businesses that want a reader with one free that displays all information from the database when checked. IF we can support 2 wars and $400 toilet seats, we can provide these to our citizens who hire.
"this actually mirrors existing federal standards that unfortunately are not being enforced."
-----------------------------------------------
Please read through the entire state statute.
It does not mirror existing standards.
If it did, it would be unnecessary to have the law in the first place.
Also, please read and try to understand constitutional law as it relates to control over foreign affairs.
I like number #3 how far back is it going to be retroactive maybe a couple hundred years???
"The passing of this law isn't alone isn't unconstitutional."
----------------------------------------
jke1717-
The law is unconstitutional not because of profiling, etc, it is unconstitutional because States have no power to pass immigration laws because it's an attribute of foreign affairs. Just as states can't have their own foreign policies or enter into treaties, they can't have their own immigration laws either.
The statute also has an anti-solicitation of workers (often called day laborers) provision of the type that has already been held unconstitutional under the First Amendment, see Town of Herndon v. Thomas, MI-2007-644 (Va. Cir. Ct. Aug. 29, 2007) Comite de Jornaleros de Redondo Beach v. City of Redondo Beach, 475 F. Supp. 2d 952, 962 (C.D. Cal. 2006).
For those who claim this law is not about racial profiling but about "illegal," I'd like to know how they purport to decide who to stop. Do "illegals" have some stigmata on them to differentiate them from a 5th generation hispanic American citizen or a light-skinned black person? And will they also stop possible illegals from Sweden or Canada or Germany? If so, how will they make that decision.
And let's be real, this isn't just about "illegals" or racial profiling. The Republicans are desperate for a red Arizona, and more Hispanics vote Democratic (especially after the enactment of this law). They're hoping the law has a chilling effect on all Hispanics, and that they leave Arizona for elsewhere (Nevada???)
I put "Illegal" in quotes because no human being is illegal. Remember whose land this was before the white invaders grabbed it. This law is no different than Jim Crow in Mississippi (which also hung onto segregation as a state's rights issue). I'm waiting for the first legal challenge to it.
Should there be a national immigration policy? Of course. But the Arizona law is not the model for what we need. The Arizona law is spurring Washington Democrats to accelerate immigration reform legislation, as soon as the Republicans there stop filibustering even putting reform of financial institutions up for debate.
"Hispanic" is not a race. Hispanics belong to one of the races of humans - Caucasian, Negro, etc.
They might want to fear nationality profiling, but it's not racial.
Wow, reading some of these comments, "swarm" as if people were nasty insects, really makes me feel sad for the place our country is in right now.
Let's get a couple of points out there that might upset both sides.
1/ Americans will do any and all jobs. They will not be treated like slaves in their own country.
2/ Business, not "illegals" are the problem here. If business owners would stop hiring them, the problem would disappear overnite. But, that would go against treating the replacement workers like slaves.
3/ Republicans started this mess by granting amnesty the first time around and not enforcing the laws against hiring people who were undocumented (Southern Chicken factories anyone?)
4/ Dems need to understand that people are upset and we must push for real reform.
5/ Advocates for the undocumented need to understand that a whole lot of people are in line doing it the legal way and are not exactly happy.
6/ The Catholic Church needs to stop encouraging the undocumented to come here and should aim some of it's trillions in treasure at reducing poverty in Latin America instead of recruiting amongst these poor people who just want to support the families the church forces them to have in order to be a good Catholic (no birth control).
This law will affect everyone who isn't white eventually. Check backstage in any Chinatown. watch what happens if it spreads to Florida. Black people will be dragged off the streets left and right while police look for "illegal" Haitians.
Really bad move here people. I would like every Republican to let us know if they support this law before the primary season. I'm a hardcore Dem and can't wait to see the R's implode and gag on their own bigotry.
Be prepared for an influx of illegal immigrants from Arizona.
Resembling Nazi Germany more everyday in the USA and another step closer to the ultimate goal of DNA data-basing every citizen.
YOU have the RIGHT to REMAIN SILENT -- even while being interrogated and/or tortured.
: {
Brian Sandoval, you need to stop beating around the bush and actually say what you think about immigration policy. Or do you need to know my background first so you can tell me what i want to hear in hopes i vote for you.
i just saw this video and it makes it perfectly clear that you arent any closer to saying where you stand on giving illegal immigrants rights. stop spekaing to your audience and make a firm decision because right now we all just know what kind of wishy washy guy you really are.
http://www.dontbetonsandoval.com/illegal...
Fred_Flintstone said, "Hanging out in front of a home depot or not being able to read or write the english language can be probable cause to ask for someone's state issued ID."
Since when did illiteracy become against the law?
Bigots used illiteracy as a way to keep blacks and the poor from voting before the civil rights movement. These are the same racist arguments that conservatives have been using to justify white supremacy for decades.
This bill won't pass any Constitutional tests because it attempts to let a State dictate what the Federal Government does. The state of Arizona cannot deport anyone, all they can do is turn suspect violators over to the Feds, then what?
Who can blame the illegals from coming to a great country such as ours. With all of the entitlements we have to offer, why not?
At least they are working and not flying jets through our buildings or blowing up our infrastructure. They are out in the public working and not hiding in some sleeper cell waiting for the chance to blow us up. I say help them learn our language and help them become legal. Besides, we are profiling the wrong group, we need to concentrate on those who want to bring the USA down!!! WE all know who they are!!!
Hey aph... Please inform me how you can tell the difference between someone who makes illegal entry into the U.S. to do harm, and someone who makes illegal entry to work...
There is more than one way to destroy a city, county, state, and country. Bankrupt them...
Hey, all of you Amnesty Liberals...
It is illegal for a law enforcement officer to pull over anyone to ask them about their citizenship or anything else.
There must be probable cause before you can be stopped...
Look it up and quit trying to scare people about racial profiling...
Just wondering if anybody has taken time to read the law that was passed or are you all relying on media outlets to spin it in whatever direction they side with to interpret it for you?
Have you seen the language of the new Arizona law???? or is it too hard to understand from a non hispanic point of view or maybe look up tom tancredo!!!
I find this funny that the GOP are right behind this regulation...this law and yet are right against any financial reforms? Hmmmm makes you wonder don't it?
God bless Gov. Gibbons for saying "If you look like and act like a terrorist, .... Absolutely we ought to profile everybody that looks like a terrorist...". Yes folks, pre-crime detention of citizens, and non-citizens, works. The way for the police to quickly identify a "terrorist" is through cloth badges sewn onto clothing. For example, a pink triangle badge for gays, a green cresent badge for muslims, a gold badge shaped like a Patron tequila bottle for mexicans. We need to decide what sort of badges to award to illegal corporations like Halliburton, Blackwater, Enron, AIG and Goldman Sachs who steal trillions of taxpayer dollars. We also need to decide what sort of badges to award to illegal war criminals Bush and Cheney who stole America's blood, treasure and honor.
Instead of badges, Republicans will be assigned brown shirts and armbands emblazoned with the "W" insignia.
I expect nothing less from a state that denied MLK's Holiday!!!
Hey, all of you Amnesty Liberals... Quit trying to scare people about racial profiling...
Funny how people assume EVERYONE who will be questioned will be illegal. The fact is, and where the Constitution is violated, that many legal citizens will be questioned based solely on the color of their skin. Illegal immigration can be addressed in other ways. I agree with those who recommend employers verify legal status.
I know my stepmom is going to support the Arizona law--until she's stopped one day for looking illegal when she's in Arizona. Then, she'll be furious.
Ha Ha, the left is going whacko because the state of Arizona wants to enforce the law. What a joke when you can't enforce a "politically correct" law. It is still the law. The real reason that the left is crying is that many ACORN approved voters are being deported! Ha Ha!
Okay every day I read your comments, and everyday I hear you same old rhetoric. Let me display your hipocrisy.
Health care for everyone= socialism
(even though it does nothing to stop the free market)
socialism= violates our constitution
(even though in our constitution it says nothing about a "free market")
Allowing the police the power to harass an individual for how they look
(About time)
How come the individual goes to jail but the employer is only fined?
(sounds like partisan legislation to me)
You right wingers are the biggest hippocrites I have ever traded communication with, you are out of touch with reality and you would sell us all out if it meant you could have a bigger house.
Do I think illegal immigration is a problem?
Of course, but how about going after those who created it, the employers.
The t-baggers went koo-koo-krazy with the FEMA camp paranoia when DHS warned about right wing extremists. They still get all choked up remembering Waco and Ruby Ridge, and speak righteously about their disappearing liberties.
But when it comes to abusing somebody "who looks likes like a bad guy"--i.e. non white people-- they're totally cool with it. Suddenly, "law and order" trumps the bill of rights, and we shouldn't hamstring the police with all that bleeding heart mumbo jumbo.
The language of SB 1070 is not that difficult to understand.
Yes it is easier for both sides to scare everyone that this action will or won't happen.
Read the law and it is not so scary.
Just cause, reasonable suspicion are key words.
Checking a persons status with the Feds, turning violators over to the Feds all in there. Punishing employers in there. Not allowing mayors such as Phil Gordon to interfere with police doing there job or ordering that they can not check a status also in there.
The law does not state you can not hire people from the Home Depot sites. It states people can not impede traffic to do so. Which means you can pull and park in the lot and hire a day laborer. Just make sure they are legal.
You have to wonder and look closely at anything that one side is mostly for and the other is mostly against. Obvious neither side has the interest of the people.
Has the European Center chimed in? Is Sandoval a "race traitor"???? Is he afraid of being profiled???
Hello, Mr ed... Earth calling Mr ed...
Please tell what is wrong with Sandoval's statement:
"Racial profiling is illegal and I do not support it," the statement read. "I do understand the Hispanic community's concerns about this law and believe Arizona officials must pay close attention to the implementation of the new law."
Sounds good to me.
I think the Tea Baggers better be right aware as most of them will be grouped with the Arain Nations groups in the next set of laws....
One of my friends here used to do some very mean things to the day laborers who hung out in the home improvement store parking lots; he'd drive his pick-up truck into the Home Depot or Lowe's, pick up a few illegals and make a beeline for the police station!
Yeah, talk about seeing a bunch of illegals suicide-dive from the bed of a pick-up truck.
Thought you supported the Constitution Larry? Implementing a law based on racial discrimination is Unconstitutional! How come the teabaggers aren't screaming about this?
Hey Jenlv... I did not know you were a Constitutional Scholar...
I am not a Constitutional Scholar, but it appears that Arizona fashioned their law after the Federal law that authorizes the Border Patrol to make stops and maintain their highway check points.
I am not saying that you are not correct, but I would rather wait for the Supreme Court to make a decision...
Larry, it doesn't take a constitutional scholar to see that this law is unconstitutional. It just takes someone with a fourth grade reading level.
Illegal immigrants do not have constitutional rights. If you are questioned and you have proof of citizenship, you are free to go. It will be worth it to finally do something about the people entering the country illegally. And they have a pretty good idea what the illegals look like.
The cost to taxpayers is too much with so many illegal immigrants entering the US for so long, and no chance of any thing changing unless someone like the Great Govenor of Arizona has the guts to make a tough call and create a response to those who just ignore the law. We are not talking about the people here legally.
Aprilgirl12:
This law will absolutely infringe on the rights of American citizens every time an American citizen is stopped for whatever trumped up reason and is forced to prove they are a citizen. It is NEVER "worth it" to trample on the rights of American citizens.
"And they have a pretty good idea what the illegals look like."
Yikes!
Produzieren Sie Ihre Registration Papiere unte License Hansel/ Gretel!"
Every time I am pulled over by the cops, I am required to produce registration, license and proof of insurance. If I have all of the above items current and in order, I get my ticket for whatever I was doing wrong in the first place and any additional tickets as a result of the original stop. If I have no major problems, I am allowed to go on my way. 5 minutes if I don't have any problems and up if I do. What's the problem?
The first steps to not being pulled over are to obey the law and drive like you are supposed to or don't drive.
If you are driving a car, you are required, by law, to have a valid license on your person at all times and you are to produce this license to an officer of the law upon his/ her demand. It's the law.
This is the point where it can go from a 5 minute stop to something much, much more ......
As far as picking on the day laborers at Star Nursery, Home Depot or Lowe's and mobile car washers, c'mon.... really?! I would like to see any of you go and hang out at these places and do these jobs just to be able to claim harrasment and profiling. Make sure you have your license on you if you drove there. We wouldn't want any entrapment suits.
If they are here illegally something needs to be done. What do you think they look like? We aren't talking Canadians, eh?
Let's keep it real. I work three months out of the year just to pay taxes. How many months do they work to pay taxes? What happens when they need medical care?
It isn't that I don't care or that I hate people who come from the country where people are entering illegally. It is that I cannot afford to give more in taxes to take care of them.
How much are we supposed to give when the American union workers don't even get any support from their own country? And we are paying taxes.
I do not see how it infringes on my rights to produce my drivers license and to prove that I am here legally should not be any more difficult.
I would like to see my rights supported by the law being upheld for a change. This is an issue that has been ignored for too long.
I like kids but I don't adopt all of them that are available for adoption because I cannot afford it. We have to get real about what we have and what we can give.
Aprilgirl12:
It is estimated that one-fifth of illegal aliens are non-Hispanic. So, yeah, "let's keep it real."
I notice that you had absolutely nothing to say about the fact that this law violates the rights of AMERICAN citizens.
ShannonK - Do you propose that the police be required to issue a citation every time they pull a citizen over? I have been pulled over and given a warning and was very thankful that I didn't get a ticket. I have been pulled over for some bogus crap too but it never occurred to me that the police were pickin' on me. It may have been something less sinister like protecting those in the community. Finding out who is driving the car with out of state plates, late at night, while most others are either at a destination or moving with a purpose from one place to another.
Let's just have the cops stay at home and only come out on an as needed basis after the fact. Heaven forbid they should actually try to prevent crimes.
I expect the police to have probable cause for pulling me over. This law doesn't just state "when pulling someone over." Police can stop you walking down the street. Sorry, but I'm not giving up my rights as a U.S. citizen to catch a few illegal aliens. Target the employers. That's where the real problem lies.
Dear Shannon it is ALSO estimated that there are 460,000 ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS in Arizona, which makes me wonder WHAT PERCENTAGE of those people are NOT Hispanic ?
The violation of rights you seem to be rambling about, is an issue of having to show valid paper work documenting the fact that you are in the U.S. LEGALLY, Arizona AND Nevada both have laws that requires a person to carry proper identification, or be fined under the Stop and identify law. This is simple, You get stopped, You provide identification.
Myforte:
NRS number please.
Contrary to your belief again Shannon, The police CAN stop ANYONE strolling down the street for probable cause, black, white, brown, This is not discrimination.
Um, still waiting for that NRS number. Thanks.
NRS 171.123 Shannon, You could have Googled it yourself...
1. Any peace officer may detain any person whom the officer encounters under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime.
2. The officer may detain the person pursuant to this section only to ascertain his identity and the suspicious circumstances surrounding his presence abroad. Any person so detained shall identify himself, but may not be compelled to answer any other inquiry of any peace officer.
Shannon,
The rights of Americans are not violated by having to show their ID or citizenship. What is your point that 1/5 of illegals are non-hispanic? That the police will not know what an illegal might look like? So, how hard is it to ask someone for proof of citizenship? They can ask anyone. Start with me, I've nothing to hide. Those who are freaked by this likely do have something to hide.
Of these 460,000 illegal immigrants you can rest assured that they are walking everywhere they go. I mean after all, it would be illegal to operate a car without the proper authorization to do so ........ Oh Yeah .... Oh well ... what's another broken law in the big scheme of things.
I'm pretty sure that the intent of the constitution is that the laws be applied equally and fairly with justice.
This is not the case in regards to this question.
I don't want to cut and paste from thread to thread so click on my name and read some of my recent posts on other threads.
Myforte:
Yep, I've already seen that. Nothing there about identification. All that is required is stating my name. Nice try, though.
Aprilgirl12:
There is no law that states someone must have identification. We don't have a national ID card and we are not required to have state ID.
democrats support law breakers.
U.S. citizens do not have to carry ID cards or proof of citizenship. U.S. citizens can also verify their citizenship orally.
Permanent Residents are required to carry their I-551 cards (Green Cards) or face a fine per Federal Immigration Laws.
Those who are not U.S. citizens or permanent residents, must be able to prove immigration status or face deportation...
Right, Larry, so how exactly is this stupid law going to work? How hard would it be for an illegal alien to lie about who they are? This law is not the way to fix the problem.
they already lie about it.I look at it like this, if a person comes here to work, and wants to become a citizen, they have a work visa, green card, whatever, that shows they are here with "legal" permission.Those people would be proud to carry that document in case they were ever asked for it. Those that don't, should be questioned about their status. We are required to carry passports when in other countries and have them with us at all times in case we are questioned. This country is the only one I know of that doesn't enforce their own laws.You can't blame them for being here, and reaping all the bennies, blame our federal govt for not enforing the law, and allowing some stupid group to cry "you can't profile them". to heck with them, profile away.Find the ones who contribute to our society and don't break our laws, give them status, those who, are on welfare, feeding off our system, break our laws, send them packing with threat of prison for life if they ever return. profile, profile, profile.
lipton:
The point is that citizens can't be asked to prove citizenship*. How in the world are you going to ascertain who is a citizen and who is not if you can't ask citizens for proof? See why this is a stupid law?
*I believe the only instance where one has to prove citizenship is in the area of employment (I-9 Form). That's why determining legal status needs to fall in the realm of employment and why serious jail time as well as fines need to be used on the employers.
Yes, U.S. citizens can be asked to prove citizenship. U.S. citizens do not have to carry documents as proof of citizenship. U.S. citizens can verify their citizenship orally.
If you have ever entered the U.S. at a border crossing or been stopped at a Border Patrol check point, the inspecting officer asks you to declare your citizenship.
If the inspecting officer has any doubt about your declaration of citizenship, you can be detained for further questioning to determine citizenship. Once U.S. citizenship has been determined by the inspecting officer, no further questioning is allowed about said citizenship.
An oral declaration for U.S. citizenship does not have to be involved. Questioning could include:
Of what country are you a citizen?
What is your place of birth?
Where did you go to school?
Have you served in the U.S. military?
If you are a naturalized citizen you may be asked:
Who petitioned for you?
At what port of entry did you originally entered the U.S. and when?
Where and when was your citizenship ceremony held?
Questioning to determine citizenship should be simple questions that a citizen should know immediately without hesitation...
NRS 171.123 Shannon, You could have Googled it yourself...
1. Any peace officer may detain any person whom the officer encounters under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime.
(so being mexican is now probable cause)
2. The officer may detain the person pursuant to this section only to ascertain his identity and the suspicious circumstances surrounding his presence abroad. Any person so detained shall identify himself, but may not be compelled to answer any other inquiry of any peace officer.
Welcome to NAZI, America where Facism and Conservatism go hand in hand.
Larry,
You have to have a passport or passport card in order to cross the border now. Oral declarations won't cut it anymore.
Regarding "simple questions," how difficult would it be for someone to make up some stuff and practice it, thereby being ready if they get stopped?
Larry, this is absolutely true. Again, this country is the only one I'm aware of, that allows illegal entry without provocation.
the stupid law would be not being able to ask. This country would be in much better financial shape if, law enforcement were able to ask, able to detain, able to deport, able to prosecute, able to deny benifits. This warm, huggy,feely, fuzzy attitude is whats getting us in trouble.Profile,profile,profile.
Shannon, thats why they need to be required once again, to carry their visa or green card and be able to prove they are here legally to work and live, if not they should be detained until they can either prove it, or be deported, period.Oral anything, doesn't cut it.
Gee Shannon, you want to only punish the employers for accepting false documents and not the person who submits them. That's justice. Throw all the employers in jail. I have been in the position where I have looked at the documents for an I-9 form. I was never formally trained to spot a forgery. Should I go to jail for not spotting a forged document or perhaps it would be more fair to punish the person who gave me the forgery, knowing with full will and intent that it was a forgery. Who signed that these documents were real and true to the best of their knowledge. The blade of justice is a two edged sword and cuts both ways. Give the employers E-verify and require them to use it and when a Social Security number is being used by multiple individuals, show up at the various places of employment and arrest all of the individuals and detain them until they provide legal proof of who they are and their immigration status. Even in this scenario you only catch the ones who are playing by the rules. Day laborers and people who employ them will fall through the cracks.
Some SS numbers are being used by hundreds of different people in different parts of this country. Imagine the cost. How about we get these people to come in voluntarily and pay a fine and become legal and charge them at higher tax rates because they broke the law and never let them become citizens?
Maybe we should just pick up a few at a time as law enforcement runs across them and deal with it that way.
I will vote for and give money to the politician who gets Nevada to follow suit of Arizona.
destruct_mutt:
Where are you getting the idea that I only want to "punish employers for accepting false documents and not the person who submits them"? The feds need to be deporting those people and the employers need to be smacked hard by fines AND jail time in order to prevent them from hiring illegal aliens.
I actually don't have a problem with a forgery proof national ID system that one would need in order to be hired for a job, in order to rent or own a home/apartment, in order to conduct any banking, and in order to obtain utilities, including phones. Make it difficult to actually live in this country without such an identification.
Picking them up "a few at a time" is a waste of time and money and doesn't solve any problems whatsoever, but does open up law enforcement agencies to lawsuits brought by citizens for being hassled and detained illegally.
fedup, I'm right there with you. The numbers supporting Arizona are amazing, its great.
The 1986 Reagan Amnesty has been a disaster:the act transformed America & was exactly opposite of what was promised. Why is it allowed for foreign nationals to march on our soil, carry foreign signs, anti-American signs & racist signs claiming this land belongs to a singular race of Latinos & more recently signs that threaten, "No Amnesty, No Vote?" Could you march in the streets of any other country & make such demands? Criminal entry is immoral as the perpetrators' loyalties lie elsewhere. There is no such thing as a law-abiding illegal alien. No other illegal activity, such as robbery is legalized just because some people do it.Nevada's current deficit is $887+million; the cost to Nevadans for 2010 for illegal aliens is estimated to be $950Million. Do the math. In the entire U.S. the annual cost is $346Billion & growing. States have to enact legislation to protect jobs, pensions & education.But the Unions want new membership; the government, new voters; the illegals want to come & go as they please yet retain allegiance to their own country and their country wants them to stay here as they need the remittances from its citizens working here. Everybody is using everybody for their own ends. The illegal population here is comprised, overwhelmingly, of one group...Mexicans--it is not a racist choice; it is an assault on America's sovereigntyand on all State budgets. All of you out there slamming the Arizona law, should think about the end result for our country. I am tired of some politicians stating that it was the same for the Irish, the Germans, the Italians etc. Not so. They came thru Ellis Island, legally. They did not enter illegally,a misdemeanor, nor did they steal SS numbers or produce fraudulent documents, a felony. Latinos should march,protest and make demands in and of their own country. Good fences make good neighbors! We need enforcement of the existing laws & God Bless Arizona for her courage.
lectrocuda...
What kind of a bigot would write:
"Welcome to NAZI, America where Facism and Conservatism go hand in hand."
@Larry...you're mis-informed...when entering the U.S. at border crossings or passing through Border Patrol check points, the inspecting officer isn't asking you to declare your citizenship; they're asking if you have any goods or products...fruits, plants, animals, monetary instruments, etc., that you're legally required to declare AND pay duties on.
Also, the point about inspecting officers doubting an individuals citizenship is pretty much moot...they're on the border...they just need to look at the individuals travel documents and, provided the person doesn't say they intend to overstay their student or tourist visas (Europeans never do that /s), welcome them to the U.S. and wave them through.
To the howling masses that think immigration should be stopped or restricted now that their ancestors are safely ashore, keep in mind you too can be stopped and required to provide proof of citizenship (ref above European comment), so pack accordingly.
@larry
And what would service in the military prove?
they ask for your passport, where are you going, how long do you plan to stay, and they stamp your passport with approval for temp. entry, and when you leave. If a cop sees you, "you look like a tourist" he will ask for your passport, where are you staying, where are you going and how long you plan on staying. and just so you know, my ancestors, came to Ellis Island, and became american citizens through the legal process as did millions of others, before some idiot decided "its racial profiling and you are violating their civil rights." and all law enforcement looking for passports or legal status, are not all hanging out on the imaginary border lines between countries or states!!! That made me laugh!!
You must have a passport to travel anywhere outside the US, and you can be asked for that passport at any time, so when traveling outside the US and you are asked for your passport, are you going to sue that country for violation of your civil rights for profiling you?Good Luck!!You may just disappear or get locked up with the key thrown away. Illegals in this country, are not required to obey any laws but get the benifits and rights. Is this place stupid or what?
"Target the employers. That's where the real problem lies." - ShannonK
to attain residency in another country, takes years. You must prove to be a productive part of their society, and not a burdon.You must have a craft,carpenter, plumber, teacher, secretary, etc. you must be benificial to their country.Not in this country.
You can't target the employers when they don't have the tools to verify if someone is giving you the correct info or lying. E-Verify would do that, but in our state, Harry put the axe to it.You can't hold employers accountable for dishonest illegals.
and I know you're not suggesting employers profile potential employees, that would be hypocritical.
We have a national ID "card". It is called a US Passport which you must have on your person when you leave or re-enter this country.
So with the recent mandate that all Citizens must present a current US Passport when entering the US at the Mexican and Canadian borders, the passposrt authority became overwhelmed by the requests and were unable to fulfill the requests in a timely manner.
They have since tried to get all the states to get on baord with the real ID driver's license/ ID card but even Nevada isn't keeping up with it.
Why not require that passports be obtained and maintained by all citizens from the age of 16?
Now on the other hand, if you have a bunch of law breakers who think that they will be caught because they are in a certain area, say for instance, Arizona, chances are they will not be in that area. Just the threat that it can happen may be enough for Arizona to catch its breath.
Even if it clears the Emergency rooms and classrooms long enough for the illegals to figure out it was a bluff or for it to be found unconstitutional.
Once they have moved out, it will be more expensive to move back.
Smart move by Arizona.
If you have a US Passport, you don't need any other documents for an I-9
Here are the documents that are required for an I-9 Form. http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf
It's more than just a Social Security card required.
@Lipton...I wondered about old-timey immigration and looked it up. It seems the Naturalization Act of 1906 only required that immigrants learn to speak English (didn't need to know a lick of English stepping off the boat), fill out a form verifying arrival (usually the ship manifest accomplished this), and list the names and details of any wives and children accompanying them...doesn't seem so difficult.
Nowadays, people have to establish and maintain residency, fill out forms and applications, and pass a test...in English. There's also the fingerprinting and background checks while this is going on.
It is too bad some idiot decided laws restricting immigration was racial profiling and violated someones civil rights...made us real Americans scrap legislation like the Quota Acts of the 1920s, California's Alien Land Law, the Immigration Act of 1917, and the Oriental Exclusion Act, that protected my American way of life from being perverted by the tired, poor, huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
Letting the wretched refuse of those teeming shores in was obviously the beginning of the end for America.
What I don't understand is that there is no outrage from those that have green cards and naturalized American citizens. They should be livid that they followed the rules and all that was required of them.
It's like waiting in line to get the best seats for a concert and some illegal cuts in line and gets the best seats for the concert. To add insult to injury they get the tickets free.
Being an American-Filipino I could easily be mistaken for an illegal Latino. I have nothing to fear from this law. I show my driver's license and I'm good to go.Illegal is illegal, period!
KVB - most of those that have greencards and are naturalized don't want to cause a fuss. They are thankful and glad that they have theirs and are not about to stir up potential problems for themselves, after all they are peaceful, law abiding citizens.
Can I be livid on behalf of my spouse since it was me who did the paperwork for her immigration and citizenship?
No justice in this situation as it now stands.
Politicians take note: I made sure that my spouse is a registered voter now that she is a citizen.
You won't see any blond or blue eyed people running north from Mexico. So who do you think will be asked to show id? Wake up and smell the coffee.
Joelipp knows that it is illegal for a law enforcement officer to pull over anyone to ask them about their citizenship or anything else.
There must be probable cause before you can be stopped for any reason.
Amnesty Liberals like Joelipp are trying to scare people about racial profiling...
Shannon,
Adults are not required to have a driver's license or state ID?
Destruct_Mutt-
What is your point about your spouse? If she is here legally, what is she livid about? That the US is enforcing a law? Maybe she should go back to her country where they enforce laws more fairly and justly.
Pleease.....livid? Give me a break. How much has she paid in taxes? I read that immigrants (legal) do not have to pay taxes in the US for the first five years that they are here. Is that true?
If it is, I am livid that the hard working union workers are being blamed for the depression caused by Wall Street and corporate greed, and expected to give up their fair (not exorbitant) wage.
Aprilgirl12:
Nope, which is why this is really a silly law. Yeah, legal aliens are required to have papers, but if citizens aren't required to have ID, how do you sort out who is who?
I've got naturalized citizens in my family who are not pleased with this law, either. They can't stand the fact that they obtained their citizenship the right way and they are extremely resentful of illegal aliens. However, they see this law isn't going to do much of anything to solve the problem and violates the rights of U.S. citizens in the process. Way to go, Arizona.
Shannon,
It appears that people will indeed need identification now. I don't know an adult who can live without it so I do not see that as a big deal.
Please explain why your family does not see this as a solution? And instead of just complaining, please ask them to offer an idea of what we should do.
Aprilgirl12:
I've already offered suggestions for this problem.
I find it incredibly discouraging that so many people don't have a problem with rights of U.S. citizens being violated...the attitude of "if it doesn't affect me, I don't have a problem with it." So much for all those "patriots" screaming about following the Constitution...pathetic and un-American is what it is.
This is the exact reason why we don't have a direct democracy.
What rights are being violated? That you need to show ID? Why is that a problem?
I give up, Aprilgirl. It's simply not worth any more of my time and has already been discussed ad nauseam.
It is NOT racial profiling. Read the law for yourselves. It follows a federal law already on the books.
IT IS ABOUT PEOPLE BEING IN THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY!
ATTENTION!!
Help force Congress to have the same health care they forced on us. Go to the link and sign the petition below.
You can read about it but evidently there was some error in the final draft of Obamacare which will force congress to have the same healthcare. They are going to fix it and we need to make sure they don't fix it to exclude themselves! It also lists congressman who support the bill but as you can see it isn't the democrats.
http://fleming.house.gov/HRes615/
How the law is written and how it is put into practise is quite another. Everyone here in favor of the law have already pretty much conceded that being brown is a criteria for a close look, The police will see it the same way. Unequal treatment of citzens and legal residents under the law is the crux of the problem. Will there equal treatment between a white person forgetting their id versus a brown-skinned person? Unlikely. Some of you think that it will merely be a simple matter of presenting a valid drivers license. But will this be enough if a police has 'reasonable suspicion'?
if i were to step foot on marked federal owned land that says "no tresspassing" i would be ARRESTED.
these illegal scumbuckets will be constantly coming in this country until they realize that we will find them and actually do something about them. then the word will get out and they will slow down. they are not citizens of this nation and they are not entitled to jack s***t that we have to offer.
what part of this concept does the government not understand? ok, racial profiling...well, if most of the illegals in arizona are MEXICAN based off of STATISTICS, how is it profiling? its a FACT. if they do not kick these scumbags out of our country independent groups eventually will.
Long Island, NY mainly in suffolk county there are constant beatings of day laborers and other illegals. while i think its brutal and cruel, i dont blame these people for doing it. Suffolk county PD sent a group of officers to EL SALVADOR to learn about their gangs that move there ILLEGALLY! so instead of kicking these sacks of crap out of our country they decide how to police them HERE instead??? while its great to learn how they operate, if they were kicked out a lot sooner maybe they wouldnt need that training.
kick these scumbags out. take that racial profiling concept thing and shove it where the sun dont shine. any latino LEGAL immigrant i speak to are proud to be here and DESPISE their own kind that move here illegally. i dont care if their kid was born here, deport the kid too they should not have citizenship based on where it popped out on my dime. send the leech back to where their parents need to be shipped off to.
these latino groups should support the bill, encourage the LEGAL folks to accept that police may be asking them questions, and if they are ABUSIVE about it then REPORT their issues to help TRAIN the police better...maybe too it will encourage latinos to help police to find illegals. the latino community is a very close community and knows a lot about what goes on in it regardless of it being stuff they want to know about and stuff they dont like, etc....maybe they can use this to assist police in finding the real illegals.
but no, these stupid activists just wanna cry racial profiling as an excuse. these activist groups are just as ignorant as a vocal racist screaming out racial words at people. instead of looking at the laws and truths of it they just wanna whine to defend their actions to be here illegally...maybe these groups should be arrested with some form of OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE!!! they are the racist ones as they only see one "color" and its their own, they dont see what truly goes on in the world and do not evaluate it. arrest them too for obstructing law enforcement.
THANK YOU Arizona for having the stones to do what our federal government and politicians havent had the backbone to do about this.
They are all too worried about offending the hispanic vote and losing potential voters instead of doing THE RIGHT THING and trying to stop this. Enough is enough already.
'fogcity' knows that it is illegal for a law enforcement officer to pull over anyone to ask them about their citizenship or anything else.
There must be probable cause before you can be stopped for any reason.
Amnesty Liberals like 'fogcity' are trying to scare people about racial profiling...
Aprilgirl
My previous comment was in response to the post by KahiliValleyBoy, aka KVB - for short, prior to that post.
You need to relax a bit about your Union rhetoric and understand that unions are now tools of the government.
Union contracts are used by the government to carefully control wages and benefits in an effort to reduce or control inflation. The illegal alien workforce was used in this same way, to keep inflation in check by putting downward pressure on our wages. America had an enormous expansion prior to this current setback with only a small amount of inflation. Exactly how is that possible without controlling these factors?
Don't believe me? Look at who is one of the largest end users of Union Labor. Follow the money.
The rhetoric is used to keep us squabbling amoungst ourselves. The cause and effect of this recession is a different topic. Related to be sure.
All of the rules and laws necessary to catch the illegals are already in place, they are merely not being enforced. Arizona is trying to force the Federal Government to step up to the plate and begin enforcing these laws.
The Supreme Conservative Court Of The United States today decided that a huge cross on federal land is Constitutional.
How will The Supreme Conservative Court Of The United States come down on this issue? Hmmmm.. Isn't very hard to make a pretty good guess.
Somehow there seems to be a communication problem with some readers on this board. ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION means just that. People are confusing RACIAL hatred with this AZ law going into effect. My husband is an immigrant who went thru the proper process of becoming a LEGAL United States Citizen. He went thru all the proper and LEGAL channels. Why should the illegal immigrants be granted amnesty? What makes them special? Will the government give back the $$$ they took from us for yrs worth of waiting? I think not. My husband can pass for a Mexican in this country, but he isn't. Many Mexican's stop him and start talking to him in Spanish. But he has no problem if this law came to Nevada and he was stopped by police for whatever reason. If you can prove your here legally, then no problems right? Can an American go into another country and stay there illegally? No way. This is my proposal: For every illegal immigrant found on United States property, fine that person's country and ship them back. This isn't a hate issue, so people stop confusing the term ILLEGAL with HATRED, it just isn't so.
Nevada should adopt the exact law. Gibbons/Sandoval, let's make this happen! The Obama administration has failed this nation.
Sandoval claims to be from New Mexico, how do we know he just didn't type in the "New." Why won't he post his birth certificate the way Obama did???? That would end the whole issue.
Reminds me of "Jerry Rivers" Geraldo Rivera on Fox.
Every Time they tried to clamp down on people overstaying tourist visa's all the Nevada politicians have complained.
to Aprilgirl12
you said " Pleease.....livid? Give me a break. How much has she paid in taxes? I read that immigrants (legal) do not have to pay taxes in the US for the first five years that they are here. Is that true? "
No, it's not true. My husband paid taxes starting the day he got his SS# and work permit card. Where did you hear that legal immigrants do not have to pay taxes for 5 yrs?
If the AZ law isn't about fear, hatred, or profiling it will be applied equally, without prejudice or arbitrary exceptions.
And if that's the case, it'll be interesting to check back with the good people of AZ in a few months to see how happy and understanding the parents of 17 year old Tiffany Jorgensen are that their little princess was forced to prove her citizenship for going 39 in a 35.
Even crazy Ricky Rubio and turdblossom Karl Rove think this is a terrible idea. Why doesn't Sandoval? Funny when Jim Gibbons appears more rational than that guy.
Un-American to ask for documentation?
When we travel to foreign countrys legally we better have documentation to prove who we are and that we have the right to be there(i.e. passport,etc). Otherwise we are in a heap of trouble.
Oh yeah, and you don't think they know who the Americans are.
This is about having a sovereign country, one state at a time if necessary. It is also about jobs that are going to exploited illegals while legal citizens wait for their unemployment to be extended by a government with negative revenue.
Where else but in our country's convuluted current version of justice would people here illegally organize and protest?
NOWHERE!!!
If Lanthanide or other Amnesty Liberals have ever crossed the border or have driven through a border check point they have been asked to declare their citizenship.
Passports or Citizenship cards are now required when crossing either border, but up until about a year ago, one could enter the U.S. with a simple oral declaration of U.S. citizenship.
The inspecting officer would simply ask: "What country are you a citizen of?" If the traveler can not or will not answer the question or there is reasonable doubt in the inspection officers mind as to the person's citizenship, more intensive questioning may be required. Now, this is not rocket science to ask a couple of questions that all citizens should know.
But Lanthanide and his fellow Amnesty Liberal already know this, they are just trying to scare people that the new Arizona Laws, which parallels Federal Laws, will cause great pain and misery if a person is asked about his citizenship...
Rubio, Bushes, Huckleberry, Grover Norquist (who has interesting middle east ties) are against the law.
Some of Nevada's large unoccupied valleys could be converted to large open air detention facilities that could hold 15 million people, a few mine fields could seal off the area. They could call it the Gibbon's Gulag.
cnemac2:
It's un-American to not follow the Constitution. If you don't like what is in the Constitution, you can try to get it amended, but you can't simply ignore the parts that you don't like.
Geez, did you ever actually take and pass a government or history class?
So if you're hispanic, or even look hispanic like my daugher (she's native american on her father's side) you better take your "papers" with you when you walk your dog. If you're white, then don't worry about it, you can walk your dog without fearing "detention".
WTF is that? Half of my family will have to make sure they have their "papers" all the time and half won't? Based solely upon their looks. Really?
And teabaggers support this - of course they do, they're on the half that gets to walk their dog without worry -
Aiding and abetting.
Jenlv,
My husband is Middle Eastern and looks totally Mexican. He said he would have no problem carrying his United States Passport if he has to to prove he's an American Citizen if need be. If your legal, there should be no problems proving who you are. Period.
"If your legal, there should be no problems proving who you are. Period."
In other words, if you do have a problem with this, then you obviously love illegal aliens and want to give them a pass. It couldn't possibly be because it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. //
If you study history it is interesting to notice that Hitler and the Nazi party managed things pretty much the same way way the Republican party is going about it.
Maybe labor camps are next?
Actually one of Vegas Valley's housing developers got their start building Japanese internment camps. Since things are so slow in construction, maybe this will stimulate the construction industry. Internment camps for 20 million illegals?
I hate to see them all caught in an immigration enforcement "webb."
Also, Republicans are responsible for the oil spill in the gulf.
Yes, well fedup, I have a HUGE problem with my daughter having to PROVE she's legal.
Glad you don't care if your husband may be detained if he doesn't have his passport on him 24/7. Don't send him out to walk the dog at night! "Don't forget your "papers" honey, I don't want to get a call again". Really - he's ok with that?
Nitro, we're not the land of the free if we continue to support policies such as this. This is as close to Star of David requirements as we can get.
Trampling constitutional rights of LEGAL CITIZENS such as my daughter and Fedup's husband and millions of other LEGAL CITZENS is NOT the answer to this problem.
Why can't the Mexican's that want to live and work in the USA,just do it the right way...why does it have to be sneaking in, worrying if they are going to get caught. The employers who hire them should not be fined but have their business shut down till they hire American citizens, whether they are black,white,or brown, asian. Employers only hire them so they can pay them nothing and get 7 days work out of them. If they are not legal then they should be sent back, and apply the right way.Maybe, Mexico should open their doors to American companys to build and run business. Let Usa companies own land not leasing for 99 years. That way they wouldn't have to come here for a better life.
With budget cuts and reduction in services everywhere in the country, some of you actually believe that the police are going to take/ have the time to harass someone who is walking their dog?
That the police are going to begin an investigation into someone and their activities based on nothing more than skin color?
Personally, I have never crossed paths with an officer unless I was doing something wrong or was reporting a problem like a burglary or such.
This law authorizes the officer to inquire about citizenship status in the course of an investigation which at this time, they are not allowed to do. As it stands now they are only allowed to check their status as they are being booked into jail. Hint: any call by a citizen must be responded to and investigated and that includes day workers harassing store patrons at Home Depot, Star Nursery etc.
ShannonK - using the law in this way, there is no abuse of the protections in the constitution. Especially if the police are responding to a specific complaint filed by someone.
C'mon, destruct_mutt, Sheriff Arpaio harasses people every day. This law is an attempt to legitimize what he is doing. Too bad for Arizona it's going to be struck down. I also can't wait to see what happens with the lawsuits already brought against him for illegally detaining an American citizen and legal resident.
How about we just give them El Paso and San Antonio, they have already taken it over. El Paso, Mexico, San Antonio, Mexico ! Are give them one whole state to run and live, like Montana.Lol
Complex problem, lots of simplistic answers, both jack booted right wingers, and fuzzy headed liberals. Hey, can't we all get along? I think there should be open borders so US citizens may have the right to move to Mexico and starve. How about it - some of us are going to Phoenix with shirts that say that my forebears were undocumented Germans - arrest me! Let's go! Oh, on the back of the shirt it will say don't have my documents either - waddaya gonna do about it! Huh, buddy!
You mean give it Back
"With budget cuts and reduction in services everywhere in the country, some of you actually believe that the police are going to take/ have the time to harass someone who is walking their dog?"
"That the police are going to begin an investigation into someone and their activities based on nothing more than skin color?"
Unfortunately, yes - I do believe that there are going to be cases that the police are going to do just that destruct_mutt.
While I believe that most police officers are great people, there are also some nasty racists in the bunch who would see this law as freedom to harass hispanic looking people as they see fit.
If you don't believe that, you're living in a completely different world than I am.
I am not willing to sacrifice the freedom of my family and millions of other families. It's called the Constitution.
Wow! I don't think I've ever seen so many comments.
I've actually read the Arizona law; it is not unconstitutinal in my opinion; and it does not do all of the bad things the lefties, Democrats and Mexicans say on TV it does.
Where are the tears for that old Armenian lady and her two daughters from Las Vegas who INS imprisoned and who were deported (the old lady), dead (the daughter killed by a Mexican boyfriend), and hiding (the only one of the 3 left). Why should the USA pander to the Mexican illegals and their relatives, when INS is very harsh with Armenians, other Europeans, Hatians and Asians who are here illegally? When caught, they are sent home.
Why should Mexicans and Cubans here illegally be entitled to special treatment? Only because the Democrats need the Mexicans' and Cubans' relatives votes to stay in power.
I find it very offensive that the national news media, even including the much hated FOX, are NOT doing balanced reporting on this Arizona law and what is really going on in Arizona.
What about the rights of the American citizen, a rancher in Douglas Arizona, who was murdered in his own horse corral by a gut toting illegal alien? What about the rights of the hundreds of American citizens in Arizona who are victims of crimes committed by illegal aliens?
Why won't the mainstream press report about the reality of what is going on in Arizona south of the 10 Freeway?
When we were camping on our family's lot "out in the country" between Tubac and Patagonia, Arizona in April 2009, the Border Patrol came and warned us to "get out for our own safety" because the armed drug runners and armed illegal immigrant smugglers (called coyotes) did not want us in "their" territory, and they would be likely to kill us...just like the Arizona rancher was killed in his own corral outside Douglas, AZ last month.
I wonder how all of these great civil libertarians, safe and comfy in their homes in Washington D.C., New York and Chicago, would feel if Canada's huge Moslem population in Toronto and Montreal started entering the U.S. and using guns to commit crimes. They you'd hear the Eastern establishment screaming about "terrorism".
Well folks, it's terrorism plain and simple which is going on south of the 10 Freeway in Arizona, but Obama and his Homeland Security Director don't want to do ANYTHING about it because Obama and the Democrats need Hispanic votes to get elected.
Of course, we never need to worry about such a law being passed in Nevada, because the large casinos are chock-full of foreigner employees who can barely speak English, and the corporate powers-that-be who run Nevada's big casinos like the alien employees because they are subservient.
Jenlv and other Amnesty Liberals who post here know that it is illegal for a law enforcement officer to pull over anyone to ask them about their citizenship unless there is probable cause to cause one to be stopped for something else.
Amnesty Liberals like Jenlv are trying to scare people about racial profiling...
Again...
AMNESTY LIBERALS ARE TRYING TO SCARE PEOPLE ABOUT RACIAL PROFILING...
We have seen how much has arapaio solved the crime in phoenix,by alienating the hispanic community that eagerly go to his office to report all types of crime, what he's done is drive them more underground and allowed the drug smugglers who also control the human traffiking to flourish and hold people for ransom
For everybody out there there is a show on tv named AMERICA on the history channel!!!
Hey, LarryVegas, the only person talking about amnesty is you. Too bad you don't have anything relevant to add to the conversation.
keeping up my faith in these boards to be worthless - I say give this area back as reparations for the jackbooted war in which we seized the areas - all of us are illegal aliens - maybe aliens even from another planet - maybe give the Mexicans and others area 51
Jenlv first of all he has proper ID which is his drivers license. If that's not good enough for the police, I can always bring down the passport if he doesn't have it with him or his citizenship papers. If you have nothing to fear or worry about, being detained by the feds wont hurt one bit.
You know I detest the GOP.. but that being said this and gins are the few things I agree with them....THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE HERE...IF YOU DONT LIKE MEXICO ORGANIZE OVER THROW.. ITS JUST EASY TO LEAVE AND COME UP HERE....THEY DONT ASSIMULATE..LIKE THE ITALIANS OR THE IRISH...FIFTH COLUME...THEY HAVE TO GO AND THEY HAVE TO STOP....A KID CANT EVEN WORK AT MCDONALDS ANYMORE.....OR GET A CONSTRUTION JOB BECUASE SOME LEGAL CONRTACTOR HIRE ALL ILLEGALS AND MAKES A KILLING PAYING THEM 8 DOLLLARS AND HOUR .... other than that most of you right wingers are simple minded and like sheep...your God is Sarah Palin...who is just a simple idiot
ShannonK Your statement was funny. I said if you are a legal immigrant or citizen then proving who you are shouldn't be a hard thing to do. The only people who are afraid are those that have something to be fearful from. If you haven't done any crime, then being detained shouldn't be such a problem now, should it? If they were to pull my husband over because he looked illegal and detain him until he proved who he was, he said he wouldn't mind. Anyone who has no worries wouldn't mind at all. He said it would be bothersome but he wouldn't sue the police department or anything.
FedUpWithThis:
I didn't say anything about being "afraid." Being detained until you can prove your U.S. citizenship is more than bothersome...it is unconstitutional. What part of that don't you understand? It has nothing to do with whether one is "okay" with being "inconvenienced."
As I told someone else, how about all of you who are against this bill jump on a plane to a foreign country and overstay your visa. If you are disagreeing with us after spending time in prison because in their country you wont have any rights as you do in the good ol'e U.S of A. then I will applaud you. How does that sound? Want to know what? You wont do it nor anyone else, so why be a hypocrit and expect us to do what their countries wont? Has nothing to do with the Constitution like you claim. Our country does have a law against illegals but somehow there are still millions of them walking our streets.
Oh and just so everyone out there knows, I am all for Mexico being part of the United States. You have to fly over water to get to Puerto Rico and Hawaii and yet they are part of the USA. Mexico is on the same soil. Open it up and let them free so they can come here legally and pay taxes like the rest of us do.
Actually "FedUp" has a good idea with annexing Mexico into the U.S. Then we could tax them buggers to death like we are.
We could go down Mexico way and buy property for next to nothing and live like kings until the Democrats figured out a way to ruin it for everyone...
boy, you liberals love to make everything about race, huh?
pretty soon you'll be saying the naacp is racist.
oh, i forgot...when anyone that ISN'T white plays the race card...that's fine, right?
Whatever Fed Up - I hope your husband enjoys being pulled over solely because of his looks. Have a good night, you obviously haven't understood what I was trying to say and I certainly don't understand your point.
It has EVERYTHING to do with the consitution.
Larry, NEVER did I say anything about amnesty, ever. Please don't confuse facts with your fanaticism.
My daughter and her father's family are Native American and have more right to be anywhere in this country than we do. Stopping them because of their looks is disturbing. It's more than disturbing, it's racism and it's unconsitutional.
Hey LarryVegas, sounds like a plan right? Too bad it will never happen.
Weird, all this talk about going to other countries and not following their laws. That has absolutely nothing to do with my rights as an American citizen under the Constitution of the United States of America.
Jenlv, your right. I do not understand you and you definitely don't understand me. Your daughter and her father's family are American Indian correct? They are U.S citizen's correct? They haven't committed a crime, correct? Then there should be no worries if they get detained because the color of their skin.
1). Driver's License or state issued ID card
2) Passport
3) Visa/Greencard
4) Birth Certificate/SS#/ ID card stating who you are.
If you don't own or have any of the above, most likely you are not a legal immigrant or citizen of this country.
ShannonK, you talk a good talk but when push comes to shove and I tell you to go to another country and overstay your welcome there like the illegals do here in this country, you go back to the Constitition. You forgot about the immigration law in the country. It doesn't state that ILLEGAL aliens can preside here, does it? Or get free healthcare, does it? Or get free housing, does it? Or go on welfare does it?
Let me point out one other simple fact that many of you "Constitutionalists" are forgetting. Immigrants are required by law to submit fingerprints. These fingerprints are on file in the national database. If you have come here legally, they can quickly identify who you are.
You said "no worries if they get detained because of the color of their skin" Really? "Detained because of the color of their skin" I will NEVER understand how you're okay with that.
Shannon is NOT talking about illegals, she's talking about the same freaking people I am. LEGAL CITIZENS.
I have no problem with:
1. Apply for a job, you need to do a W-9 can't provide proof? Call immigration.
2. Pull someone over for a true violation, kind of like a secondary seatbelt law - can't provide proof? Call immigration.
3. Investigation of an actual crime - can't provide proof? Call immigration.
4. Tighter audits for employers - that would mean more jobs.
There are other ways than racial profiling our LEGAL CITIZENS.
FedUp: "but when push comes to shove and I tell you to go to another country and overstay your welcome there like the illegals do here in this country, you go back to the Constitition."
What in the world are you talking about? Another country's laws have nothing to do with our laws and rights. You seem to be very confused and unable to comprehend clearly written English.
Yes, we have immigration laws in this country that aren't being followed by illegal aliens and aren't being upheld by the government. That's definitely a problem, but this ridiculous law isn't going to solve that problem and may violate the rights of actual U.S. citizens in the process. That's NEVER acceptable.
I agree totally Jenlv. Thanks for making that clear. Confused, possibly. Thought you and Shannon were protecting the rights of the illegals, not the legals. Peace, out.
Thanks, Jen. I thought it was pretty clear that we were both on the same page. I didn't realize that it needed to be spelled out in capitals in order for people to comprehend.
Good grief, FedUp. I specifically stated numerous times that I was talking about the rights of U.S. citizens. That's what happens when you get so caught up in your message that you don't bother to actually read what someone is writing. (where's an eyeroll icon when you need it?)
Racial profiling is illegal...
Racial profiling is illegal...
Racial profiling is illegal...
Racial profiling is illegal...
Arizona's SB-1070 states that racial profiling is illegal...
So why do we keep talking about racial profiling.
Jenlv...
You like to repetitively mention the Constitution.
According to the Constitution, your daughter and her father's family are Native American and have NO more right to be anywhere in this country than anyone else.
Racial profiling is illegal. That hasn't stopped Sheriff Arpaio. That's why we are talking about.
look all you people are saying, "so if your brown, you will be asked for legal papers, if your white no worry. HHHHHHEEEEELLLLLLOOOOOO. The problem is illegals from Mexico, who are brown, running across the borders thats causing the problem. You think with having a problem with illegal mexicans we should be looking at chinese? profile already. E-verify. Find the people that have lived here, worked here, abided by the laws here,contributed to our society, and give them status, those on welfare,sucking off the govt teet, breaking the laws, get them out of our country. secure our borders change the law, and lets get on with finding our "citizens jobs.
Beats me LarryVegas but all I was saying is if it did come down to them pulling someone over for LOOKING ILLEGAL, those who had nothing to fear shouldn't be worried.
ShannonK, all I heard from both you and Jenlv was about the Constitution, and protecting our rights over racial profiling. So if that means Jenlv pointing it out clearly for me and all to see, at least we are on the same page now.
You poor sorry Mexicains'. The fact is you are in my country illegally and that's the only fact that needs to be addressed here, not your poor human rights. Go back to Mexico and rally in the streets to change your own laws and fight for better living standards. Why am I a racist because I choose not to have you in my country?
I relize you are here for your families and a better standard of living but that is not my problem, it is yours and it needs to be addressed in your country.
How many of your young hispanic men have fought and died for this country? I'll bet very few have or want to. They don't care what happens here as long as they are left alone.
I have a solution to some of the problem. Let's get each of your son's, and daughter's from ages 18 - 35 to spend a mandatory 2 year stay in the armed forces and after teir stay they can get in line and ask for citizenship but not until then.
What other country in this world would not send troops to a boarder that was being invaded by another country? My government should send troops to the boarder now and stop the invasion and weed out those already here.
Yea, I know, I'm a racist because I don't support your cause and that's fine because that doesn't upset me one bit. What does upset me, is every day I have to drive by a nursery and/or Home Depot and look at all the illegals waiting to ponce on someone for a buck. I've seen it on counstruction sites and in the work place and it sickens me to anger. I've seen your non-english speaking brothers in traffic court laughing because they think it's a joke to be there. And not to mention the additional fee that my tax dollars have to pay for a translator because you don't understand the language nor care to learn it. It's not my responsibility to make you fit into my culture, it's your responsibility to fit into mine, your in "my country".
Maybe one day soon we can have another Mexican American war? Remember, you lost the previous one. Hell, we could give you all of the southwestern states and you'd still be crossing the boarder. That's because your culture is not capable of fighting for your own rights, it's easier to come here and expect them to be given to you.
FedUp: All my posts (starting from the top) clearly talking about the rights of U.S. citizens. I didn't include the ones that just implied it.
7:42 a.m. post: "Violating U.S. citizens' rights..."
8:03 a.m. post: "...violates the rights of American citizens."
3:57 p.m. post: "This law will absolutely infringe on the rights of American citizens every time an American citizen is stopped for whatever trumped up reason and is forced to prove they are a citizen. It is NEVER "worth it" to trample on the rights of American citizens."
4:31 p.m. post: "I notice that you had absolutely nothing to say about the fact that this law violates the rights of AMERICAN citizens."
4:46 p.m.: "Sorry, but I'm not giving up my rights as a U.S. citizen to catch a few illegal aliens."
6:53 p.m.: "Picking them up "a few at a time" is a waste of time and money and doesn't solve any problems whatsoever, but does open up law enforcement agencies to lawsuits brought by citizens for being hassled and detained illegally."
5:17 a.m.: "...and violates the rights of U.S. citizens in the process."
6:34 a.m.: "I find it incredibly discouraging that so many people don't have a problem with rights of U.S. citizens being violated...the attitude of "if it doesn't affect me, I don't have a problem with it." "
2:12 p.m.: "I also can't wait to see what happens with the lawsuits already brought against him for illegally detaining an American citizen and legal resident."
3:45 p.m.: "Being detained until you can prove your U.S. citizenship is more than bothersome...it is unconstitutional."
4:51 p.m.: "That has absolutely nothing to do with my rights as an American citizen under the Constitution of the United States of America."
5:08 p.m.: "That's definitely a problem, but this ridiculous law isn't going to solve that problem and may violate the rights of actual U.S. citizens in the process."
Whiteman:
Please, it's "border," not "boarder."
Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.
But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth, a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."
Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.
He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.
He qualifies for food stamps.
He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.
His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.
He requires bilingual teachers and books.
He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.
If they are, or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. If qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicaid. All of this is at (our) taxpayer's expense.
He doesn't worry about or have; healthcare insurance, car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.
Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.
He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.
Working Americans
are lucky to have $5.00 or $6..00/hour left after paying their bills and his.
ShannonK
Please, a spelling lesson, that's all you have to comment on?
AngryVoter
Thank you for the compliment! You see, I just lost my job at the beginning of the month, so yes, I am a bit loony right now.
jen, I bet you are one of the people that also said, catch those terrorists that want to blow up planes, but by god, don't you dare inconvenience me.If your daughter is doing something illegal, regardless of what she looks like, she should be confronted, and at that time she should be asked for her legal status. I would expect nothing less. It should have been going on for years, but its people like you that have put the screeching halt to law enforcement enforcing the laws.Now lets get down to business, and too bad if you feel put out, get over it, we need to fix our country,and if you get inconvenienced from time to time .....so flippin what.
Hey ShannonK...
Please tell what U.S. Citizens rights are being lost by SB-1070???
No, Whiteman. It's just a pet peeve, particularly when someone is talking about other people not learning English. I thought you'd want to get it right.
Larry, I already posted the answer to that. Feel free to go back through my posts.
Larry,.... inconvenience.
has anyone else noticed this...LVSun has daily reports of thefts, dui's accidents, etc involving hispanics(not proven illegal)and since this immigration thing has risen, there has not been 1 article in this liberal paper. could it be LV is crime free? Or could it be if these incidents were reported, it would give credance to Arizonas new law, and those that support it. interesting.
This is a situation that will not go away. It is growing in favor of Arizona each day.Until this government takes immediate control of this situation and takes some sort of immediate action state by state will take their own action.It should NEVER have gotten to this point.It is so far out of hand now it will be near impossible to stop.This business of a recently born child to illegals on american soil becomes a US citizen is so wrong.You've just set their status in cement. This process repeats over and over each and everyday.
Noch einmal -- Complex problem, lots of simplistic answers, both jack booted right wingers, and fuzzy headed liberals. Hey, can't we all get along? I think there should be open borders so US citizens may have the right to move to Mexico and starve. How about it - some of us are going to Phoenix with shirts that say that my forebears were undocumented Germans - arrest me! Let's go! Oh, on the back of the shirt it will say don't have my documents either - waddaya gonna do about it! Huh, buddy!
WOW, is this the most comments ever for a story (277 so far)? I love to see the responses. People of Hispanic descent are throwing rocks at police and advising people to pick up shovels and rakes and attack. OMG the law isn't even in effect yet. The protesters must be illegals or have illegal family members. If I was hispanic I would just make sure to carry my drivers license or passport and not worry if you are legal, OK? I carry my license or id card when I go out anyhow already. Barack Obummer made his worst mistake yet by saying the things he did, I'm way sorry I voted for him now. Like one poster said, just drive the ICE van to these rallys and get lots of illegals there. We should not be bullied or forced into accepting illegals. How does Mexico treat illegals in their country? Not very well on their southern boarder. If I was caught in Mexico without my passport I bet I would be in BIG trouble, or any other country for that matter. This fear they have is good.
ShannonK knows that it is illegal for a law enforcement officer to pull over anyone to ask them about their citizenship or anything else.
There must be probable cause before you can be stopped...
Amnesty Liberals like ShannonK are trying to scare people about racial profiling...
The opponents of the Arizona law say that this is a form of Racial Profiling.Okay! So when you are speeding down the highway and are pulled over for the violation what happens?When you go through a road block what happens?When you are staggering down the street/sidewalk what happens?This question could go on all day when the law enforcement stops someone to question or cite them for whatever violation is committed.The answer to the question is this:They ask for your identification/stae drivers license or some other form of identification now if you say you are someone else or refuse to give up this information you can and probably will be arrested and that goes for anyone in this country.Am I right or wrong so when an officer pulls over a Hispanic race person and asks for legal identification it is now racial profiling HMMMM I guess since my great grand father who was born in Ireland I can say that I was racially profiled and get out of showing ID Give me a breal all this bill allows a officer to do is arrest the individual for being in this country illegally and that should be his job. This whole thing of the hispanics being racially profiled is garbage.we need stiffer laws and state and local authorities need to be allowed to assist in finding people who are not here legally.Once they enter this country illegaly they are criminalsand law enforcement should be allowed to in force the law.Of you just robed a bank that is a federal offense but I can not arrest you because it is a federal law hmmmmm Guess the bank rober is being racially profiled Get it to gether Washing you can not do the job so let the states help
#278 Did the REVOLUTION start yet?! I was up getting popcorn!! This is the greatest show on earth!! Here is were the black gets entered into the red,white black and blue. We do need some lines drawn and it has come almost to late. Maybe, it is to late? People spout about how much it would cost to ship 12 million illegals back to mexico. Tell you what. If we all pitched in and bought them lunch and bus fare back it would be cheaper than to continue to support them NOW! DAH!! My ex works in the Jail down in Phoenix. When the sheriff releases an illegal from jail,(They were arrested by the way for breaking a law. NOT for looking like an illegal.) ICE is waiting outside the door to take them into custody and bus them across the border or to the airport.(Doesn't matter where they are from!!)Do not pass go, Do not collect $200 dollars more of my tax money. These Patriotic LAW ENFORCEMENT Personel are on the front lines of a war to save the very fabric of America. They deserve our support and praise. GO ARIZONA!! Lets do the same NEVADA!! I'll mow your lawn and clean the hotel rooms!! For an AMERICAN wage you corporate scum bags that hire them. Your next!!
I say Lets put arm bands and tattoos on em.... carve a cross in their foreheads!
Round em up and put em in labor camps. Make em pull weeds and raise chickens that can be used for healthcare!!!!
Over 800 comments among these different articles,and for what????
They have not done anything in the past,AND i highly doubt anything will be done in the future
it is rather kind of funny though how this subject just gathers people around the fire
can you say subtle racism? OR Subliminal is more like it
Sure I knew you could
peace out
Trust me,My view on this subject cannot be expressed on this forum,BUT I will guarantee that home depot,u haul,and star nursery will see an influx of day laborers shortly,as we here in the valley will see the rise in population
it really is quite depressing
peace out
I got stopped at a DUI checkpoint and I was asked for license and registration..that must be AGAINST my constitutional rights..they didn't have probable cause..I never drink and drive..The police should know that...lol
I'd rather get stopped and asked to show ID than to have another DUI driver on the road...so what makes this any different???
Thank you AZ for showing some balls!!!
"There must be probable cause before you can be stopped..."
Larry, that is a lie! you know it happens every day! Cops are trained in the art of profiling and not getting caught. I have passed that test myself. What planet are you living on anyway?
lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whiteman I'm with you. I've been to mexico. I can understand why they would want to come here. And like you I agree they should go back and rise up against their so called government and make things right. Besides, if they stay here much longer they may be shown how its done. Unfortunatly for them they might get it in the back as they scurry back south to the border.
Well said Divehard Our country is going down the tubes with all this crap of giving rights to people who enter this country illegally and to terrorist who commit acts of war on are American soil.
God doesn't have to bring this country to its knees we are doing a good job ourselves.The problem is that some of the Citizens in this country think they are to good to do hard labor jobs and some Americans much rather live on welfare and abuse the system that was put into place for people who legitimately can not work and this attitude has opened the doors for the illegals to come in and work here.That and they are willing to do the job and not complain.They are greatful to make 10 times the money an hour than they make for a whole day back in their home country.
A short little story for the readers.I was a superintendent on a job and we used a temp agency for our labor.I had called in for some additional help as the job got further along.The temp agency sent out some additional workers as requested I planned on keeping a few of them on more permanately or until the job came closer to the end.Mind you this was an 18 to 24 month project so their was potential for long term income for these workers.So I gave out the jobs and tasks needed to be done and on one of the particular assignments added a couple of extra workers because the task need to be completed alot quicker then normal.I went did some of my duties and went to check on where they were at. and how close they were to being finished when I walked up 2 were not there and I looked over and saw them sitting down on the edge of a window seal instead of just saying he guys you not needed anymore I asked them what was going on why were they sitting around Oh we needed a break I looked at them and said you have only been on the clock for 45 minutes and told them that breal time was at 10 o'clock lunch at 12 o'clock and second break was at 2 o'clock.That I thought I made it clear of their break and lunch schedule.I explained that we expected a full days work for a full days pay.We paid their lunches and breaks.One of the gentlemen proceeded to tell me Pay me more money and I will give you more work I laughed and asked him to leave the job his services were no longer needed. I think most logical people understand why he was dismissed.I truly wanted to tell him hey man give me a days work and show me you want to work and I will pay you more.
My point is this Some of the people in this country have a get something for nothing attitude and this is destroying this country.It is okay to try and live the american dream but you have to go out and get it not wait for it to just happen.
So...an illegal gets pulled over, cannot produce a legitimate drivers license or other acceptable ID. They then go through the court process, resulting in 6 months & $2500 fine (if they have the money). More jails, prosecutors, judges, police cars and officers, meals, uniforms and jail housing (of course the sheriff there uses tents in the dessert). All so you can pull $13.82 per day from them? Doesn't jail cost more like $100/day? So if the state cost per conviction is $100/day for 180 days =$18,000 per perp. 500,000 illegals x $18,000= $9,000,000,000. Add 1.25m for fine income, I'd say AZ is going to need $7.75m to get this started. And after 6months; what then?Dump em back on the streets to continue the process? Dump the on the other side of the wall?
This will be sadly entertaining.
"ShannonK knows that it is illegal for a law enforcement officer to pull over anyone to ask them about their citizenship or anything else."
So you're saying that the new law will be ineffective at stopping crime, since someone has to break the law before they can be asked about their citizenship?
And did you know in Arizona the crime rate is decreasing. not increasing? In some counties, it's decreasing at double the rate of the national average.
http://sonoranalliance.com/2010/03/22/cr...
http://www.phoenixnewhome-info.com/crime...
"According to data from the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, violent crimes in Arizona fell from 512 per 100,000 people in 2005 to 447 per 100,000 people in 2008, the last year for which data is available."
"According to a 2008 report from the conservative Americas Majority Foundation, crime rates are lowest in states with the highest immigration growth rates, such as Arizona. From 1999 to 2006, the total crime rate declined 13.6 percent in the 19 highest-immigration states (including Arizona), compared to a 7.1 percent decline in the other 32 states."
"Although the unauthorized immigrant population doubled to about 12 million from 1994 to 2004, data from the Bureau of Justice Statistics indicates that the violent crime rate in the United States declined by 35.1 percent during this time and the property crime rate fell by 25.0 percent."
It is not racisim to deport illegal aliens.They are destroying our country.
Of course along comes ksand99 and supports the illegal aliens.
According to a recent poll conducted April 14-15 by Mason-Dixon Polling...
Democrats support amnesty...
74 percent of Nevada's Democrats SUPPORT offering amnesty to illegal immigrants, while 20 percent oppose.
Republicans oppose amnesty...
79 percent of Nevada's Republicans OPPOSE offering amnesty to illegal immigrants, while only 14 percent support amnesty to illegals...
And ksand99 supports amnesty to illegals...
LarryVegas said: "Amnesty Liberals like ShannonK are trying to scare people about racial profiling..."
Stop lying. I never advocated amnesty. Don't be a jerk.
a 2008 report does nothing for whats happening in 2010. unemployment was 4% in 2008 and its 13% in 2010. What are you trying to do, use old data to sway the belief that there is no crime in Arizona? Show us 2010 statistics. So, Shannon, are you against a law on the assumption it will not work? Are you saying that this law will give authorities the power to abuse it? You are all against this fear of racial profing, tell us what your opinion is on the admins new tax laws that tax only those making a certain amount? If that is your stance, I am going to say, every democrat who voted for Obama and his stmulus and his healthcare plan have profiled every american making more than a poverty level wage.So if I wear Gucci, will I be profiled as someone who makes too much money to afford Gucci? Or if I drive a Caddilac? Your profiling arguement can be applied to just about anything. It is very weak and it is being used by democrats in office to sway his sheep.
Holy moly, lipton. What in the world does my opinion on new tax laws, the stimulus, or the health care plan have to do with illegal immigration or this bad Arizona law? Oh, I get it now. You are one of those "patriots" who scream about going back to the Constitution, but you don't actually know what's in the Constitution.
No Shannon, don't you see the relationship between what you're saying about profiling illegals and what you voted for with Obama?
The difference is, I don't use the constitution to justify what might inconvenience me. The liberals themselves said the constituion was outdated, yet use it loudly when it is useful for what they want or don't want. Its like a washing machine.
point was Shannon, the liberals used the constitution and how outdated and unconstituional it was to pass their healthcare bill, yet use the constitution as a tool to advocate illegals homesteading and sucking us dry in our own country. But of course, you didn't get the relationship.
By your logic, lipton, we should still have slavery and women shouldn't have the right to vote.
that was a good deterent, way off the mark, but ok.I don't expect a response to the post just change the subject. So, you don't consider that most people(legal that is) pay anywhere from 23% -35%(est) of they wages into taxes as slavery to the admin and govt? that you probably work 3 or 4 months out of the year to pay taxes? You want laws enforced but you don't want to be inconvenienced in the process, using your constitutional rights as your arguement, yet, to get healthcare passed, the constitution is outdated, and this makes sense how? Only certain women, like Pelosi and Boxer and Napalitano!!!
funny you should mention this poly.....I say Lets put arm bands and tattoos on em.... carve a cross in their foreheads!
It has come to light that Obama wants to use computer chip implants on all recipients of the govt funded healthcare plan so all their info is readily available.
You get what you vote for. The illegal immigrant problem has a simple fix. But George Bush, Harry Reid and the whole rest of the dumber than dirt politicians in Washington are too busy sucking money out of lobbyists to address and FIX the problem.
As for our so called Governor Candidates on the Republican side. Maybe they should buy a brain from some online vendor. Throw in Rory Reid and you would get an imaginary number if you added up all their IQ together.
Jim Gibbons is for racial profiling. Who would have guessed? Maybe we should consider Republicans a race of imbeciles and profile them.
Now listen up. The reason you do not have jobs and the economy in Nevada vacuums like the biggest black hole in the universe is simple: You all voted for Gibbons as Governor, Reid for Senator and Reid's moron kid for the Clark County Commission and the rest of the official clown bin.
If you got rid of all the illegal immigrants in Nevada there still would be no work for the unemployed. Blame it on Gibbons and the Reids because they are responsible for this disaster, not illegals.
Should we fix the illegal problem. Sure. But it is a Federal problem where the individual states and the citizens as a whole suffer.
What's the easiest way to fix it?
1. Any illegal with a criminal record of any felony gets deported.
2. Any other illegal must turn themselves into INS and declare they are illegal. INS then issues them a misdemeanor citation and they need to go to court. If they plead guilty, they have to pay a fine of $500 and PASS an English as a second language class. When they pay the fine and pass the class, they get a 2 year work VISA, the fact that they were an illegal stays on their record, they must provide INS with their address or any change thereof and they must NOT commit any felony crime in that time frame.
Plus, they must apply for citizenship within 6 months of their sentence. Failure to become a citizen with 5 years is grounds for deportation.
If they violate any or all of these restrictions, they get deported and if they are caught as illegals again, we try them for a felony of illegal entry. If convicted we execute them.
That should solve the problem. Plus, with 12 million illegals supposedly in the country, $500 in fines for each one adds up to a good chunk of change we can use to secure our borders better.
No surprise that lipton is a misogynist.
no answer, just name calling. typical.
and just so you know, there should be several guys who shouldn't be allowed to vote as well. The initial response to your stupid comment was a joke thats why the !!!! If you're going to ask a stupid question, you deserve a stupid answer.
"If you're going to ask a stupid question, you deserve a stupid answer."
Which is the exact logic I used when determining how to respond to your posts to me. ;-)
ShannonK knows that it is illegal for a law enforcement officer to pull over anyone to ask them about their citizenship and there must be probable cause before you can be stopped...
Amnesty Liberals like ShannonK are trying to scare people about racial profiling...
Fred - An Illegal act can never be allowed to become a path to citizenship. Never.
You can create a new Visa category which allows them to stay, you can fine them, tax them at a higher rate, but granting them citizenship creates an imbalance of Justice for those who have endured the Legal immigration process.
So far as the statistics and reports on crime are concerned - How accurate can these be when they do not take into account the fact that the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are in fact breaking the law by entering in the manner that they have and are in most cases commiting FRAUD and carrying falsified and fraudulent documentation that had to be obtained from another criminal.
Are we then looking at Violent crimes only in these statistics?
I suppose only violent crimes matter. Should we then consider letting out all non-violent criminals from the prison system because their crimes are not serious enough to be considred in any other debates about criminal activity?
Well we can all rest better because criminals usually only break one law and obey all the others.
rodtig - Your story says more about our education system than anything else. People have the attidtude."Hey, I showed up!" That is what they learn in school. They warmed a seat every day. They got their "gold star" and were passed along to the next level as if showing up meant anything compared to actually doing something. A different debate.
Here is a snippet from a story at Yahoo News. There is also information at the full story about how Mexico treats the border invaders at their Southern border. Their El Presidente' has the gall to complain about the Arizona law. Incredible. Notice also that Barak O has a personal interest in the immigration process regarding his aunt.
How Mexico Treats Its Illegal Aliens
http://news.yahoo.com/s/uc/20100428/cm_u...
"-- The Mexican government will bar foreigners if they upset "the equilibrium of the national demographics." How's that for racial and ethnic profiling?
-- If outsiders do not enhance the country's "economic or national interests" or are "not found to be physically or mentally healthy," they are not welcome. Neither are those who show "contempt against national sovereignty or security." They must not be economic burdens on society and must have clean criminal histories. Those seeking to obtain Mexican citizenship must show a birth certificate, provide a bank statement proving economic independence, pass an exam and prove they can provide their own health care.
-- Illegal entry into the country is equivalent to a felony punishable by two years' imprisonment. Document fraud is subject to fine and imprisonment; so is alien marriage fraud. Evading deportation is a serious crime; illegal re-entry after deportation is punishable by ten years' imprisonment. Foreigners may be kicked out of the country without due process and the endless bites at the litigation apple that illegal aliens are afforded in our country (see, for example, President Obama's illegal alien aunt -- a fugitive from deportation for eight years who is awaiting a second decision on her previously rejected asylum claim).
-- Law enforcement officials at all levels -- by national mandate -- must cooperate to enforce immigration laws, including illegal alien arrests and deportations. The Mexican military is also required to assist in immigration enforcement operations. Native-born Mexicans are empowered to make citizens' arrests of illegal aliens and turn them in to authorities.
-- Ready to show your papers? Mexico's National Catalog of Foreigners tracks all outside tourists and foreign nationals. A National Population Registry tracks and verifies the identity of every member of the population, who must carry a citizens' identity card. Visitors who do not possess proper documents and identification are subject to arrest as illegal aliens."
Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:
Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;has committed a federal crime.
Let me see if I got this right.....
IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR.
IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.
IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.
IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED.
IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.
IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.
IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON ROT.
IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET:
A JOB,
A DRIVERS LICENSE,
SOCIAL SECURITY CARD,
WELFARE,FOOD STAMPS,
CREDIT CARDS SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE,
FREE EDUCATION,
FREE HEALTH CARE,
A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON
BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE
AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY'S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH RESPECT
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I HAD IT RIGHT
Nevadans say YES to Arizona's immigration law...
The latest Rasmussen survey of likely voters in Nevada shows that fifty seven percent (57%) of Nevada voters favor legislation like Arizona's that authorizes local law enforcement to stop and verify the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being an illegal alien.
Only thirty one percent (31%) oppose such legislation.
Drill, baby, drill! Round up all the illegals give them each a roll of Bounty and tell them to wipe up the "Sarah Palin" oil spill in the gulf.
Scare tactics, plain and simple. People are starting to take action on Illegal Immigration because our Federal Government has failed this country. The only people who have anything to fear are people here ILLEGALLY, period.
Shannon, of course you did!!!!!Thats way too funny.
We need to focus. Obama, Pelosi and Reid will probably try and sneak in a new bill or law or something while no ones paying atention.
"THEY CAME FIRST for the "Illegal Aliens",
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't an "Illegal Alien".
Then the came for the Arab "terrorists",
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't an Arab.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."
Then they came for me
And that was the last time they came for anyone...
Spin, spin, spin, the libs are so concerned about profiling they are willing and ready to break the law.
ad nauseum
That was actually pretty clever Lar...
the democrats are using scare tactics. The law does not say anywhere in it that profiling is ok. The law allows the states to enforce the federal law already in place. This is exactly why it has never been enforced. Obama or anyone else just "assumes" and again using those powerful words Clinton talked about to deter the law being enforced.Obama, is using political intimidation, for his own agenda, once again.
IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET:
A JOB,
A DRIVERS LICENSE,
SOCIAL SECURITY CARD,
WELFARE,FOOD STAMPS,
CREDIT CARDS SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE,
FREE EDUCATION,
FREE HEALTH CARE,
A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON
BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE
AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY'S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH RESPECT
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I HAD IT RIGHT so true but again its this great country with the flaws if anyone is to blame here maybe some of these LEGALS have a blame beacause illegals will move to where they know they can get work by LEGALS so i honestly beleive that WE as citizens have a blame in this cut that resource out than they have no choice but to leave and come back legally as far as the billions to get documents in theyre language dont forget this country was made through differant europing nationalities and here in vegas we have many buisness people from other countries which is our bread and butter
Nitro-
"The law" has to deal with a lot more than you might ever imagine, there are always two sides to the story.
here is a simple solution.When filling out your federal tax return, there should be 2 extra boxes. 1)If you support illegals, check here.
2)If you support the Obama healthcare plan, check here.
Anyone that checks those boxes gets 75% of their tax return removed to support the illegals feeding off our country and gets to pay for the "univrsal healthcare. Those that don't, get to keep their money and choose for themselves how it should be spent or saved.Those that want to support and pay, let them, just quit dictating to all of those that oppose, that they also must pay for what the liberals want. Democrats love spending other peoples money for what they want.Only took a little over a year for the majority of americans to be fed up with it.
Sandoval's views on Immigration have totally flip-flopped!
http://www.DontBetOnSandoval.com/illegal...