Thursday, April 15, 2010 | 2 a.m.
Risky endorsement
Firefighters’ political capital has taken a hit, as their salaries have become a target for taxpayer rage amid the recession. Candidates are backing away from the once coveted firefighter endorsement, fearing a voter backlash, while scrutiny of the Clark County firefighters union has soared.Sun archives
- County commissioner named in threat on Facebook (4-8-2010)
- County Commission beefs up security after Sisolak threatened (4-7-2010)
- ‘Boot drive’ OT for individual firefighters is unknown (4-4-2010)
- Practice of on-duty firefighters raising money for charity questioned (3-31-2010)
- Fire union goal: Silence Sisolak (3-19-2010)
- Las Vegas firefighters burn up more sick time than other city employees (3-14-2010)
- Clark County firefighters profit from sick leave policy (3-7-2010)
- Commissioner offers pared Metro budget as example for others (2-25-2010)
- ‘Longevity pay’ costs millions in county (12-10-2009)
- Firefighters feeling budget backlash (5-28-2009)
- County, fire union break ice with heated words (5-7-2009)
- Firefighters have perks to give back, if they wanted to (4-29-2009)
Firefighters have long been the most sought after prize in local politics. Candidates of both parties fought hard for their endorsement, which came with money, volunteers in firefighter T-shirts to knock on doors, and a hard-to-beat image: candidate, flag and firefighter.
But several years of reports about firefighters’ lucrative compensation during a time of economic duress, exacerbated by a series of public relations missteps, have combined to make firefighters and their union politically toxic in some quarters, according to several political operatives.
A Democratic operative who was granted anonymity to speak freely, was blunt: “Not only are people not seeking the endorsement, they are actively avoiding it.”
Mike Sullivan, a lobbyist and political consultant, said: “It used to be, you’d seek the firefighter endorsement 100 percent of the time. Polls I’ve seen so far show that this endorsement won’t necessarily help you.”
Dan Hart, another Democratic operative, was measured: “Firefighters perform an exceptional and needed job in our community. But public employees have to look at how much they are paid — the new world of politics is different and I think firefighters have to change with it.”
Hart’s willingness to openly warn the union, which would have once been unthinkable, is instructive — firefighter political capital has been badly depleted.
Firefighters are in trouble because their salaries have become shorthand for populist anger — on the left and the right — about the economy, the Democratic operative said: “The economy is the No. 1 issue, and when people want to vent about the economy, they point to the firefighters.”
Although the true cause of the valley’s economic woes are far more related to bad mortgages and an unfettered Wall Street run amok than firefighter pay, firefighters are apparently a potent local symbol for frustrated voters.
In 2009, county firefighters averaged $181,000 in total compensation, including benefits and overtime pay; battalion chiefs averaged $285,000.
The county is paying these salaries even as the commission must cut $57 million, or 14 percent of its budget, to close a deficit. That could cost 96 firefighters their jobs.
When the number of possible lost jobs was announced, commissioners were conspicuously silent — laying off firefighters is no longer unimaginable.
Indeed, in North Las Vegas, the City Council voted to eliminate 16 firefighter positions among 204 overall layoffs.
An obvious reason: Firefighters are no longer what they once were during election season — a turn both swift and dramatic.
Susan Brager, a Clark County Commissioner up for re-election, said she has been getting angry calls and e-mails from constituents about firefighters.
When asked if she would seek the firefighters’ endorsement, Brager replied, “That’s a good question ... I need to be an independent voice. That’s in my best interest and in the best interest of my constituents.”
Asked if that meant she didn’t want the firefighters union endorsement because it might diminish that independence, she declined to elaborate.
Rusty McAllister, president of the Professional Firefighters of Nevada, complained his union has been damaged by unfair media coverage.
As he noted, some local government officials are attacking firefighter overtime pay even though those very local governments have made a policy decision that has driven up overtime.
To wit: Local governments have elected to pay lots of overtime instead of hiring more firefighters because health, benefits and training costs of new hires would be greater than the current overtime costs.
McAllister cited the opening of two new Clark County fire stations last year without the addition of new firefighters, which in turn led to more overtime. “You can stop overtime tomorrow — hire some firefighters,” he said.
McAllister noted that Democrats in the Legislature showed up for endorsement interviews and that union political donations haven’t been returned.
Still, he acknowledged firefighters have been blindsided and often slow to respond to political attacks, going back several years, though the real damage has been inflicted in the past year or so.
Scrutiny of the Clark County firefighters union — the largest in the valley — grew more intense last year when firefighters offered salary concessions to the county that officials concluded would have actually increased costs. Firefighters wound up keeping their pay raises while other unions agreed to slice or eliminate theirs.
Negotiations on a new contract between the county and the union are ongoing.
Meanwhile, firefighters have stepped into one public relations blunder after another.
As the Sun reported recently, firefighters have been doing charitable work on the job — running the MDA “Boot Drive” — which drew outrage from Clark County Commissioner Steve Sisolak, who vowed to stop the practice.
Steve Sisolak
This served to feed a narrative ingrained in the public consciousness, that the job isn’t demanding, according to the Democratic operative: “What are they doing at the gym? At the grocery store?”
After the charity work incident, a Las Vegas firefighter wrote on a Facebook page that she wanted to “shoot” Sisolak, leading to another bad round of press.
The firefighters’ travails have important implications, both for the fall elections and the 2011 Legislature. Firefighters have traditionally been an important piston in the Democratic political engine, which has historically received most of the firefighters’ help. Their ineffectiveness will be a boon to Republicans.
In Carson City, firefighters, led by McAllister, have become known as savvy players who leverage the legislative process to their advantage at every turn. But with less electoral clout and with their public standing in tatters, legislators will be less likely to listen to firefighters’ pleas.
The union locals seem to have finally recognized the problem and are trying to clean up the public relations mess.
The Las Vegas city firefighters union hired former KVBC Channel 3 news anchor Kendall Tenney as a public relations specialist. Tenney did not return a phone call request for more information.
A full-page ad in the Las Vegas Review-Journal on Wednesday told readers that the North Las Vegas union made a substantial salary concession offer to the City Council. The ad includes a black-and-white photo of a firefighter spraying water on a four-story building ablaze.
Even this effort was imperfect though, as another Democratic operative noted: “The building doesn’t look like a Nevada building to me.”
Mark Fierro, a longtime valley public relations professional who was recently hired by the North Las Vegas union, acknowledged that it isn’t a local photo.
This feeds another damaging narrative — voters rarely see smoke in the sky because most of our structures were built or retrofitted after the state passed some of the toughest fire codes in the country in the early 1980s, including effective sprinkler systems.
Still, Fierro said it was reasonable to use the photo: “It’s symbolic of what’s going on here. It puts into perspective what (firefighters) do. It’s a dangerous job,” he said.
Fierro acknowledged that firefighter deaths from actual fires are rare, but said they suffer and die from the lingering health effects of being around toxic burns: “They die very young and in a hospital bed,” he said.
Despite the recent adversity, Fierro and other firefighter allies still have plenty of remaining goodwill to work with, according to some candidates and operatives.
State Sen. Bob Coffin, D-Las Vegas, who plans to run for the Las Vegas City Council in 2011, said he would accept an endorsement. He believes their image problems could disappear if local government reined in overtime.
“Police and fire jobs carry a lot greater risk than other public employees and are entitled to higher salaries,” he said.
Political consultant Ronni Council said based on her experience, she would encourage candidates to accept the endorsement. “When you knock on that door, and you tell a voter that you have the support of the firefighters and the police, that goes a long way,” she said.
But it was curious that Council felt the need to emphasize that when firefighters knock on doors for candidates, they aren’t doing it on work time. “I’ve never had a firefighter walk while on duty,” she said.
McAllister said firefighters are ready to fight back.
“There are certain people, groups, who have defined and changed the perception of who we are. I read stuff and I say, ‘That’s not me.’ ” He concluded, “How do I fix that? I’m not sure but we’re trying.”







I haven't seen any comparisons between Valley firefighters and the rest of the country.
Are the salaries and benefits comparable? Are they out of line? Are they way out of line?
Where do they rank, particularly in the region? Compare to Phoenix, San Diego, LA, Dallas, Albuquerque etc.? How about Chicago or St Louis? If the Sun ran comparisons, I guessed I missed it.
How can anyone say that their salaries are too high or too low for that matter unless they know what is comparable?
Volunteering on public time is a different issue than pay and benefits and that policy needs to be determined by Clark County. I can't believe that there is not a personnel handbook somewhere that addresses it. It should be applicable to all County employees. Anybody checked the Clark County Personnel Handbook?
All I hear the firefighters and their union reps complain about is supposed "unfair media coverage". Yet, I have never seen them say the press is outright lying or present a counter argument that would support their cases and prove the press wrong. No, their only arguments seem to center around "hire more firefighters" then if you don't want so much overtime costs, not much of solution. No, what they really don't like is that some of this stuff is finally being exposed for the public to see. They would prefer some of their practices stay hidden from public view.
The Governor, the Legistlature and the County Commission are the people responsible for the whole economic mess, not the firefighters.
As Clark County Commission Chair, Rory Reid is culprit number one. If the clown can't manage the county, he certainly can't manage the state.
But he is hopeful. His DADDY will fix it.
For sure Gibbo The Clown has no clue. Plus, he is not funny anymore.
The job of Governor is beyond the skill set of Brian Sandoval. He would quit the day after he was sworn in.
But if you want to solve the state's problems, you can vote for Fred Conquest and get the results you desire: jobs and prosperity.
Fred Conquest
Democratic Candidate for Governor
www.fredconquest.com
All of these heroes must be in shock today. Their own arrogance and over self worth killed them. You guys are working out on our dime. You guys are shopping on our dime. Sometimes when you have a good thing you dont flaunt it. Should have kept it in the firehouse boys.
IGNORANCE is bliss.
Clark county firefighters are among highest paid in the country. Hopefully the Sun will run a comparison chart, and let people see the magnitude of the fleecing
ALL COUNTY COMMISSIONERS SHOULD BE IN THE PAPER DENOUNCING THE ACTIONS AND LACK OF CONCESSIONS BY THEIR UNION. AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, THE ONLY COMMISSIONER THAT SHOULD BE REELECTED ARE THE ONES LIKE STEVE SISOLAK WHO IDENTIFIES A PROBLEM AND ACTIVELY TRIES TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM IN GOOD FAITH. THOSE WHO AREN'T ON THE BAND WAGON SHOULD FEEL IT ON ELECTION DAY!
What a joke with the Fire Union ad in yesterday's paper. They couldn't even get a photo of a fire in North Las Vegas. Probably cause they don't have fires like that. Lay more off ! Don't vote for politicians that get the fire union endorsement.
I don't think the FF and their union still get it and instead of correcting the problems, they hired PR people to cover up their shortcomings. Guys, your scam is already exposed, time to have open minds and help out with the budget problem. The politicians (Collins, Gianchiagliani, Mayor Buck of NLV) in your pocket will be gone comes election time so one way or another, you will wake up and face reality. The "fix" is easy....HELP FIX THE BUDGET BY GETTING ON BOARD WITH THE OTHER PUBLIC EMPLOYEES".
Hey Joe,
Was Sisolak one of those politicians who actively sought the endorsement of firefighters? Did he get it?
It's interesting that you discuss Brager, yet show no picture of her. You manage to include a pic of Sisolak in every piece you run".It's beginning to look and sound like advertising and propaganda"
You never did address a question I previously asked you regarding Sisolak's high profile attack on the "Fill the Boot" drive (which he signed a proclomation in support of). Are we to assume that as an elected official he simply signs his name to documents without understanding what he is signing (and has "Oh Duh" moments later)? Or is he simply a politician who saw an opportunity to keep his name and face high profile (for a cause he previously signed his name in support of), at the expense of the children who benefit from, and have benefitted for years from, the firefighters on-duty involvement in the MDA charity?
Appendix 1: City Services Focus Group Survey Summary
This appendix provides detailed discussion of participants' thoughts about specific City of Las Vegas services. As described in the Methodology section above, focus group participants took a brief survey responding to two items taken from the City of Las Vegas 2009 Community Assessment administered by the UNLV Cannon Survey Center. The following items indicate how focus group participants interpreted and discussed the two questions about specific City of Las Vegas services drawn from that survey.
City Services: Most Satisfied
Fire Department and Emergency Medical Services
Participants across all of the focus groups consistently responded that they were most satisfied with fire department services and emergency medical services. They describe these services as "essential" and "necessary" to life and health of the City. Participants are impressed with the speed and efficiency of fire and emergency medical services, describing them as "reliable," "prompt," "responsive," "courteous," "helpful," "respectful," and "impressive."
It seems that people are easily distracted by the sleight of hand issues put forth by some of our political leaders. It seems a little shallow to blame the recipients of paychecks - rather than concentrating on the policies that caused them and decision makers that created those policies. The firefighters are right about one thing --THE OVERTIME IS PAID AS A COST-SAVING MEASURE!!! --as it is cheaper than hiring and training another employee and providing all the benefits. Of course - that may call into question the wisdom of the policies that provided those benefits and at a time when people are clamoring for jobs, question whether the area wouldn't be better off with more people employed.
I am appalled at the ideas that many of you have that these men just shop and work out. These guys are going non-stop all day long from the moment they wake up. What many of you are forgetting is that "Firefighters" are also Paramedics and EMTs. They run MEDICAL CALLS all day long. Just because we don't have a lot of fires in town, doesn't mean they aren't busy. When they are not running calls, they are training, taking continuing education classes, and engaging in public services. People also don't realize that their schedules are insane! Yes, they get paid for working 24 hours at a time, but they are sometimes up many times throughout the night, or all night at most stations. They then come home to their families exhausted and worn-down. Their stress levels are high and their sleeping schedules- a mess. Because of their different schedule they miss their children's daily activities and events, and they have no set schedule that allows a normal life when it comes to family events. Every single FF I know has a degree or is working on their degree. They DO have to have so much education for this job, and they DO have to eat and stay fit as well. Anyone is welcome to go spend a day in their shoes and see what they really do. I promise that many of you will be shocked at how non-stop their day is. So if you have not experienced this first hand, please do not be so ignorant with your words. Where else are they supposed to get food if not the grocery store??
unclegig hit the nail on the head....rather than fix the problem or even admit the problems, they hire pr guys to spin it. Well the taxpayer ain't buying it.
The ad was a joke for NLV that they couldn't even find a local photo. Guess they had to take a photo from a city with real ff, not glorified paramedics.
The taxpaying public is sick of being fleeced, so the ff union can try and spin it however they want, but they are wasting their time.
Unsilent_majority: Not REAL firefighters? Please go try their job for a day.
MRSE gladly try their job 24/7.
mrse,
Can you provide us some analysis on the paramedic and emt situation?
To the layman, it appears that there is a private paramedic/emt service in the valley. In other words, why do we pay overtime to the FF when a private competing service already exists? Aren't we paying then twice for the same service? And at FF extreme salaries?
It seems like we should eliminate some of these responsibilities from the FF, which are naturally going to cost a whole lot of public money.
MRSE, I just became unemployed due to budget cuts.... and I already feel like I've worked a day in the FireFighters shoes, watch TV all day and run personal errands.
Hmmmm, not a bad gig. Now if only I could pull down the fat 6figure paychecks, I'd be at the gym too.
A couple of weeks ago, I got sick, my husband called the paramedic's, within five minutes the Paramedics and Firemen show up at my house in two different vehicles,to take me to the hospital, My daughter told me that the paramedic's and firemen where kinda fighting on who was going to transport me to the hospital. It was like a showdown in front of my house, the firemen won the argument because they where there a minute before the paramedic's arrived.. So it looks like the paramedic's and firemen are starting to fight now too....
Bluv, That is an option. the problem is response times. Do you want a private EMT/Paramedic at the scene in 12 min or do you want the FF Paramedic/EMT at the scene in 4-6 Min. These are the facts, dont let any other posters on here tell you otherwise. AMR and Medic West get fined everytime they do not meet that 12 min response time for 911 calls, it happens alot. They paid hundreds of thousands of dollars last year in fines. One entity is profit driven, and one is service driven. So ask yourself, do you want your loved ones treated in 4-6 min or 12 min in a time of crisis. Thats the facts, and that is what is not being told to the public.
worstnightmere, The Fire Dept is the Paramedics. Every Rig besides the truck companies have paramedics on them. The private ambulance also staffs one paramedic. They usually show up to transport after Fire is already on scene.
In a word, YES. The union is seen as a problem not a solution which is typically the case.
If some of the posts above are what the FF union paid for, they are not getting their money's worth. The truth is out and no amount of PR or spinning will help so it's time to face reality and no more "business as usual" please.
Check out Clark County salaries:
http://transparentnevada.com/salaries/20...
The number of firefighters in Laughlin (!) who make more than $200K is particularly remarkable.
mrse, the hardships you described are experienced daily by many of our service men and women around the world, and they do it for far far less.
I think our fire fighters do a good job, I won't lie about that, but do they rate to make what they make during such bad economic times?
Fire Fighter = Crook
smarter than you... you are such a joke... you have no clue what the FF due everyday, you are always saying they are picking up chick, the only thing I can think of is you are so damn ugly you wish you could pick up some chick and be a FireFighter... every-time I see one of your post I think what a JOKE you are... and you have no CLUE>>>>
Mrse...... you are beating a dead horse, no one wants to hear about our men and women putting there lives on the line, all they can see is fire them all..... be careful what you wish for..
You want to do a salery comparison??? Put a nationwide ad for a FF position here in Las Vegas and starting salery at $181,000. Thats your answer, you'll get so may G.D. apps it would be overwhelming!!!! Geez, maybe I would send in an app too?? Nah, if sleazy politicians are shying away from 'Heroes', whats that tell you!!!!
Firefighter's Union support will be a curse to any person running for office next round of elections..
@pookyyorky
Read the FF contract and you'll see that FF that work in Laughlin get paid extra for their driving time.
Also, not only will the County pay for many school courses, but if the Dept. says they are required the FF get paid OT while in class. This is also in the contract.
Face it, the County had idiots for negotiators. That was probably why there was a clause that attempts to limit access to the contract as much as possible (Article 2, paragraph 2). You are entitled to a copy if you request it, but the County can not publish it.
At this point I think that any government employee union should be prohibited from endorsing races that affect their pay or contract.
Have none of you learned the lessons of September 11, 2001? Do you realize how easy it would be to fly a fully loaded jet liner into a Las Vegas high rise? I have NO PROBLEM paying these talented and dedicated men and women more money because every time they are sent out there is always that chance they will not be coming back. The next time you get in an accident and your family's life is hanging in the balance, do you really want your first responder to be the guy that was the lowest bidder?
mrse - you kind of missed the point and proved why the firefighters are overpaid.
1) Most of the calls are NOT fire related. They need to let the other divisions(EMT etc) respond to those calls. Better to hire more paramedics and other positions since they cost a LOT less.
2) The scheduling is an outdated model. There is absolutely NO need to have a 24 hours a day multiple weeks at a time scheduling. Private firefighting companies don't do it and are MUCH more efficient. Of course we all know Unions are not really about efficiency anyway.(Efficiency = less job = Unions don't like.)
3) And the most obvious reason they are overpaid is the FACT that you would have dozens of QUALIFIED people HAPPILY work their jobs for 50k a year. Have you ever hear of supply and demand? How can you have an insane pay when there are plenty of qualified people who would be happy to do it for much less?
Finally, it doesn't help that we are all learning about how they work the system. Cover each other and time sick days so firefighters get payed overtime. Work extra hard for ONE year right before retirement to collect a bigger retirement pay for the REST of their lives at OUR expense.
Other cities/counties are working with part-time/voluntary firefighter and or have contracted with private firefighting companies. Guess what? It costs less and are better services! Probably because they actually work only on fires and not all that other crap!
snowvet
What about the men and women in the Middle East??? Their job is far more dangerous.
They make pennies to what the fd make.
Also , look at the 30 coal miners that just lost their lives. I am sure they don't make 200,000 a year to dig coal out of a mountain.
Also---you could walk outside to get your newspaper and not make it back in the house alive nowadays....
FF deserve a decent wage, but they dpon't have a right to be making over inflated salaries off the tax payers backs.
Please--no more mention of 9/11. Yes it would be easy to fly a jet into an LV casino, like in the movie "2012". Especially if it was an inside job. All of those 9/11 tribute books ended up in the bargain bin at Barnes and Noble selling for $2.99. Last week 29 coal miners died in W.Virginia doing a truly dangerous job making our way of life possible, given how much coal we burn in this country. FF's apparently never read the news. Did any of them hear about Lehman Bros, Bear Stearns, Countrywide, credit default swaps, national debt of $180K per person, the city of L.A. considering bankruptcy? I'm more afraid of my exploding property taxes than I am of dying in a fire.
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=...
This is a fire department pay chart for San
diego.
Steve, Now add in OT, Medical benefits, Retirement, Uniforms and training and see where San Diego's Pay is?
Transparent Nevada is doing all of thee above to get their high figures. When are any of the posters on here gonna realize that?
Wiseman, they never will realize it, you could tell them until you are blue in the face and they still won't get it.....
I saw a fire truck getting gas today. unbelievable!
What is so unbelievable about that??????
Lakeflier, They run on Diesel.
NJ Girl, thats whats so unbelievable about it! I hope it wasnt gas, wouldnt run for long!
How many of you interested in the topic of pay and budget cuts have actually contacted the union especially NLV to find out their positions?
Hey Joe,
I corrected a few of my typing errors and reposted. Maybe now you will answer my questions?
Was Sisolak one of those politicians who actively sought the endorsement of firefighters? Did he get it?
It's interesting that you discuss Brager, yet show no picture of her. You manage to include a picture of Sisolak in every piece you run. It's beginning to look and sound like advertising and propaganda on your part...not journalism.
You never did address a question I previously asked you regarding Sisolak's high profile attack on the "Fill the Boot" drive (which he signed a proclomation in support of). Are we to assume that as an elected official he simply signs his name to documents without understanding what he is signing (and has "Oh Duh moments" later)? Or is he simply a politician who saw an opportunity to keep his name and face high profile (for a cause he previously signed his name in support of), at the expense of the children who benefit from, and have benefitted for years from, the firefighters on-duty involvement in the MDA charity?
YAWN......
I see it now. It looks as if Joe can't write anything other than articles about fire fighters and fire unions. How sad for you. Maybe you can take a few writing courses at CSN to end your writer's block. I know it is hard for fictional writers to get out of a rut. I'm pulling for you Joe!
Hey beyondtheeagle,
Your questions may be valid, however they are a pathetic attempt to turn the spotlight off the ff's. The issue is outrageous wages, sick pay, longevity pay, and the OT. Not to mention all the ways the fd has been gaming the system to inflate their wages at the expense of the taxpayer.
Even if Sisolak did seek ff endorsement, maybe now that he sees what is going on, he is exposing it rather than keeping his mouth shut....and thats what he is supposed to do. He is supposed to be looking out for the people..not whats best for one particular group.
On a side note, the whole idea of CC,NLV, Henderson etc. makes no difference to us. The same abuses are going on in every single fd.
Hello unsilent_majority,
Thanks for validating my questions. Maybe now Joe will answer them.
Joe?
Its not just firefighters and its not just Las Vegas. Gov't. employed union members all over the country make big money and retire @ about 50. Nearly double private sector employees. When asked for concessions or work reductions to help state budgets unions (esp. SEIU) threaten legal action. Just ask Arnold, its a big part of CA.s' budget disaster.
The firefighters are way overpaid and I wouldn't vote for anyone that supports anything other than a pay cut for the firefighters. Compared to teachers that have twice the education level they are paid 3 times as much.
state workers got this very venom the first go round in cuts, they have taken the cuts and changed the way they do business, and I have no sympathy for these FF, cops or teachers, who refuse to make consessions and think they can continue with business as usual.The part that makes me mad, is, because they snub their noses, state workers will probably pay the price next session, because they have no union backing, they just get what the gov dishes, so no sympathy here.
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=...
Fire fighter salary charts for several large cities....With benefits too? Not sure....
http://www.cabq.gov/fire/pay.html
First year fire fighter in Albuquerque, NM makes $16.00 an hour....
Steve, sorry, I won't even look. I can't imagine purposefully p**sing myself off.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3597302/PAY-...
Pay scales and staffing for fire fighting positions around the country
ooops the last site was for 1999......a bit off
@ unsilent majority-
After reading your blog history its evident to anyone with half a brain that your user I.D defies you. I remember long ago a friend of mine wanting to date a beautiful younger gal -out of his league- and she dismissing his advances for a fireman her own age. Perhaps you should get over whatever real issues you have with firemen and write about something of use? Like how you might influence corrective action? Its obvious the profession, its stellar, and yes, masculine traits- really bother you on a wierd and deep level.
From May 2007--NYC Fire Department
New York City Firefighters Approve Contract
Members of the Uniformed Firefighters Association (UFA) have ratified their labor agreement with the City of New York by a vote of 4,037-3,115, with 56.5% voting in the affirmative. The contract agreement covers a 24 month period from August 1, 2006 to July 31, 2008 providing New York City Firefighters a compound wage increase of 8.16% for all current firefighters, plus additional benefits bringing the value of the total wage and benefits package to 9.75%.
Steve Cassidy, UFA President stated, "With the members ratifying this contract this UFA Executive Board has been successful in negotiating a more than 40% salary increase for New York City Firefighters since taking office in 2002."
As part of the total package, firefighters also gain an increase in their longevity pay, will get a Line of Duty Prescription Drug Card with no out-of-pocket expenses for on-the-job injuries, an increase in chauffer differential, and for the first time, the introduction of specialty pay starting with all rescue, squad and hazmat companies, whose approximate 500 members will each receive an added 12% wage increase.
Firefighters hired after January 2006 will reach the level of 1st Grade Firefighter/top pay six months earlier than in the past. In the second year of the contract Probies will be paid $36,400 and 1st Grade Firefighters will earn $68,475.
Is there anyway to find out how many firefighters work their part time jobs while serving their time as firefighter. Construction bidding, real estate calls, sales calls, and on line gambling, etc.
Steve10
Interesting, I am sure most of the Vegas wimpy Firefighters would quit if they had to fight fires in New York.
cpo works for the Sun.
Steve, A first year firefighter in Clark County, NV makes $17.65/hour.
Sun archives:
-County commissioner named in threat on Facebook (4-8-2010)
-County Commission beefs up security after Sisolak threatened (4-7-2010)
-'Boot drive' OT for individual firefighters is unknown (4-4-2010)
-Practice of on-duty firefighters raising money for charity questioned (3-31-2010)
-Fire union goal: Silence Sisolak (3-19-2010)
-Las Vegas firefighters burn up more sick time than other city employees (3-14-2010)
-Clark County firefighters profit from sick leave policy (3-7-2010)
-Commissioner offers pared Metro budget as example for others (2-25-2010)
'-Longevity pay' costs millions in county (12-10-2009)
-Firefighters feeling budget backlash (5-28-2009)
-County, fire union break ice with heated words (5-7-2009)
-Firefighters have perks to give back, if they wanted to (4-29-2009)
Not one thing positive for FF's in Sisolaks' Sun in one year. Yea, real objective reporting.
Croc 1 Dont forget to add the new one today. lol. Joe is amazing...
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/apr...
"When they are not running calls, they are training, taking continuing education classes, and engaging in public services. "
That's funny; teachers have to do those things on top of all their other teaching duties, on their own time and at their own expense, for a salary of about 40K, with no overtime.
(And, teachers, don't forget to pay off those student loans!)
Why would anyone in their right mind become a teacher? After becoming one, why would a person stay in such a job? No wonder there's such a huge turnover rate and constant shortage.
teacher,
maybe they do it for the personal reward? maybe they like the schedule? you do a noble and thankless job. I wish you were compensated more for the hard work that you do.
However, an entry level teacher at a 9 month school works 184 days/year, 6 hours a day. That's 1104 hours/year. Starting salary is $35,083/year. Divided by 1104 hours = $31.78/hour. A teacher with a BS and 5 years experience makes $37.09/hr.
CCFD firefighters start at $17.65/hour. They work 2912 base hours a year.
If an entry level teacher worked 2912 hours/year they would make $92,543.36.
These are just numbers. I still wish that you and your colleagues would be rewarded more for the hard job you do.
First off, teacher, the FF have all their continuing education paid for. Second, if it considered to be a required class then they are paid OT while in class. Read the contract.
Sorry chriscross, but there is nothing stellar and masculine about ff in vegas. It is organized crime that I am forced to pay for as a taxpayer, and it annoys me. I guess you think Sager and Vohwinkle and the guy stealing from the charity, and the guy being charged with insurance fraud and arson are all stellar human beings....heroes in fact. I guess you think people gaming the system so they get inflated pay at the expense of the taxpayer are stellar people. It was a respectable profession, but you guys have turned it into a sham. Real ff in real cities laugh at you guys, and thats the truth.
Buddy
Teachers actually work 7 hours a day....Plus the majority of teachers stay after school and put in an additional hour-to three hours of work in after the school day has ended. They don't have over time either. In the contracted 7 hours a day they work, there is little time to correct, phone parents, run off assignemnts, and plan for the next week's activities. They have to do this after hours with no over time....Plus teachers don't solicit for charities on work time either.....
boftx, you refer to Article 22, Section 8. I'm not aware of any of these classes being considered required. As a result, as stated in Section 7, subsection C of the same article (22), "such educational courses, seminars or training programs shall be taken on the employee's own time".
I know your point is in the contract, but its never used. All continuing education is scheduled on days the employee is not working.
Steve, I'll say it again... teachers aren't paid enough for what they do. And I stand corrected...
184 days x 7 hours/day = 1288
Entry level teacher w/BS = $35,083/year
$35,083 / 1288 hours = $27.24/hour
If a entry level teacher worked 2912 hrs/year, they would make $79,322/year
A teacher with 5 yrs experience makes $40,947 ($31.79/hr), if they worked 2912 hrs they would make $92,572/year.
And I'll say it again... I still believe teachers aren't paid enough for what they do.
Buddy
This is true. They aren't paid enough for what they have to put up with or deal with.....I was just letting you know that they actually work 7 hours.
Plus teachers have to renew theor liscense every 4-6 years. This is at their own expense. They need to reliscense with 6 credits. This can cost as much as $700 in course fees.
Buddy, what any classes that are required to take the Engineer exam, or any exam for advancement? Aren't several of those courses taught at various schools and not by the Dept. itself?
unsilent, nobody has condoned the bad behavior of a couple individuals. But surely you don't think a couple bad examples represents the entire group. Based on that logic all teachers would be seducing their students. Or, all priests would be molesting children. Or, all doctors would go on a shooting spree at the local military base. etc. etc...
boftx, as mentioned in Article 33, "the County shall maintain an Engineer's Academy...". Historically, successful completion of this academy is a prerequisite for the Engineer's exam. This academy is not offered through any local schools. I assume because a lot of the academy is supervised hands-on practice with the fire apparatus (engines, ladders, rescues) and the schools can't afford the equipment, insurance, etc. So if the County actually wanted to hold an exam a year before schedule. Wouldn't it be reasonable to expect them to offer the Academy prior to holding the exam? Think about the risk and liability for promoting an Engineer (those that drive the fire engines) before they have had sufficient time to prepare and practice.
Adjust or be fired.
MRSE said "I am appalled at the ideas that many of you have that these men just shop and work out. These guys are going non-stop all day long from the moment they "WAKE UP"."
My biggest issue is that they collect all this overtime before they wake up. They are getting paid to sleep. Yes, I understand they have to be on call and yes I understand that this keeps them away from their familie, etc..I just disagree that they should be gettin paid massive overtime for sleeping, eating, grocery shopping, working out, playing cards, and doing charity work!!!
Much of this is on the city for allowing this to happen but for the FF's to defend their practices is alarming to me.
I agree with the article that the firefighter endorsement will come with much adversity and I will vote against anyone they support.
There was a story just the other day (I'll have to dig it up) about UNR I think closing it's Fire school. What was taught there?
Again, if such a clause exists then it is there to be used.
Don't forget that 'firefighters' steal from the taxpayers, when they have their buddies call in sick, so that they can receive callback overtime. The favor is returned to them as well.
It's stealing.
akrowdybuck, you mentioned some of the things that firefighters do, sometimes while being paid overtime. Did you know that they also runs EMS calls, respond to haz-mat incidents, aircraft emergencies, rope & technical rescues, auto accidents, flooding conditions, perform school drills, preplan the occupancies in the respective areas, perform business inspections, hands-on single company drills, hands-on multiple company drills, write EMS reports for every patient we come in treat, perform EMS training to maintain our certifications, etc. But yes, we also spend our own money to shop, we eat, we use the bathroom, sometimes we even shower. Have you ever had bloody vomit spewed on you? And yes, we rest. Sometimes we are at the station for 72 hours straight. Would you propose that we don't do all these things during that time? Keep in mind that with all the things that you and I mentioned, we are still ready and able to respond to the next unscheduled emergency at a moments notice. Your right, sometimes this is on OT.
CCFD has about 700 personnel. The national recommended average of # of FFs per capita (1000 people) is 1.2 FFs per capita. According to the CC Dept of Comprehensive Planning, the July 2009 estimate for CC population was around 2 million. 700/2000 = .35 firefighters per capita. For discussion sake we could make some assumptions that since the recession, some of our population has dropped. So let's assume CC has a population of only 1 million, even though the County's experts say otherwise. 700/1000 = .7 FFs per capita. Still grossly understaffed. Oh wait, don't forget the daily average of around 100K tourists we also protect that further depletes our resources.
It's a simple solution, hire more firefighters.
Buddy,
I am not saying all ff. I am saying there is a problem with ff in Vegas. There is a sense of entitlement that is going on. It is obvious by several of the poster defending themselves. There have been a few posts from some respectful people on here attempting to make their case. Yourself, and croc1 come to mind. However, I have seen the arrogance first hand. It seems there is a problem with the attitude of many of these guys/girls.
However, that aside, I am not saying that it is not a necessary job, because it is. However, any person can see something is definitely way of control here. Are the individual ff to blame for the contract, no they are not. But that doesn't mean it is right. It needs to be fixed. It has gotten way out of control. I have said it before and will say it again...$65k a year, with MAYBE another 10k in OT is reasonable. The abuses need to stop.
Perhaps most ff's don't think of themselves as heroes--however it's clear that by their own admission, school teachers DO think of themselves as heroic educators. What a bunch of ##@@*%&#.
Here in Pasadena we are currently having a mail-in election to decide on a $10 a month parcel tax to help PUSD. I'm voting NO! I'd rather spend $10 a month at Burger King or on Netflix. In wealthy San Marino they actually approved an $800 a year parcel tax and they STILL had teacher layoffs.
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/ci_14892...
Buddy,
I understand they do all these other things and believe they should be compensated for doing such....all across the country they do. The problem is here that they somehow seem to get compensated much more when the risk is lower then it would be on the east coast.
You mention the EMS as being a bad part of your job and I think it would be the worse! Only problem with using that for argument sakes is that AMR, or whoever the private ambulance company is out here, does that same job for $14/hour.
The operating budget of the ff is just a small problem in the big picture, but it is the low-hanging fruit that frutstrated citezens will latch on too and rally behind.
I have three friends on Akron (ohio) fire department. They work out trades when they want a day off opposed to calling in sick 10 days a year on average. They get paid well for doing the same job you do...just not nearly the same amount.
Why is that? Are you saying that it is all because of staffing???
unsilent, there isn't any wide spread abuse. The vast majority of the fire department only calls in sick when they are sick, tending to a sick family member, or recovering from a surgery.
The only reason you haven't read about FD personnel being disciplined for abusing sick time is that it's not happening. The only thing you've read about is unsubstantiated allegations.
I could claim that Joe has 8 arms, but my claim doesn't make it so.
Furthermore, when a vacancy on the fire department exists, because someone is on scheduled vacation, sick, or the position is under staffed. The person who caused the vacancy has no way to control who is going to work the vacancy. No secret deals are happening, because the person causing the vacancy and the person who volunteers to or is forced to work that vacancy have no control of the outcome.
I've already given you my take on why OT exists, and my solution... Hire more firefighters.
and on per capita arguement...do most states have both acounty and city department (las vegas fire department)? I ask because I do not know but I think this would skew the numbers quite a bit?
I mentioned before the county/city does probably understaff the department because they have to balance the budget before the year starts instead of at the end of the year! They can probably assume less OT then what will happen to balance and then know that they will have to make it up on the back end.
That still doesn't change that when adding up both sick days and vacation days that you miss work (on average) 23 out of 120 shifts! You don't really miss work though because you work these days and get paid massive OT and then blame the system. Every shift you miss is 24 hours so you are missing 552 hours a year (using 23 shifts). Make this an 8 hour day and you miss 69 normal working days a year!
I can make stats say or favor whatever I want...its part of being educated and most of us have enough of an education to not buy what you are trying to feed us!
Botftx, I don't know that he'd carry more weighted authority but outside of the media rhetoric I'd like to hear more on that side of the spectrum cause we don't know that side, only the side of what is in the media, which I believe is somewhat slanted, especially thru these economic woes we're experiencing. I forget which paper (RJ or Sun) but if I recall correctly one of these unions are in contract negotiations, so wouldn't it make sense for the politicians to start some media campaign toward the negative against whomever their negotiating with? I say this because the media blitz has been big recently and not anytime before.
I'm concerned on the spending of money by our jurisdictions. I went to my town hall meeting & my cousin's area town hall meeting and all you saw was a bean-counter powerpoint-bar-pie representation but no detail information about actual spending. It made me feel there's something amiss and wondered why.
Buddy,
Dont pay any attention to unsilentmajority. He's the only taxpayer amongst us bloggers. And, he lives in unincorporated Clark County, so he has to deal with the CCFD, and CCFD alone' when he has his heart attack one day--- so hes entitled to his hate.
He probably hates to look at himself in the mirror naked. If hes lucky enough to have some cash to throw around, a pretty woman may pay attention to him every now and then, but always for the wrong reasons...and he knows that. Otherwise, hes stuck with us bloggers and the attention we give him and he enjoys being a fireman hater.
Sad if you really think about it...
akrowdybuck, you say the risk is higher on the east coast. I say risk is a subjective perception. Your buddies in Ohio might think fighting a fire in Vegas on a 110 degree afternoon is risky, or not. I think fighting a fire in an east coast building made of brick and mortar might provide more safety than the lightweight wood we have in this valley. But this is all subjective.
You also say your buddies are paid well, but not as much as here, and ask if this is all because of staffing... I don't know why, or even what they are paid for that matter. I did notice on the Akron FD website that they have a population of 217,000 and 380 uniformed FD personnel. That's a FF per capita rate of 1.75 firefighters per capita. Maybe their department's staffing model doesn't rely on OT to fill seats.
In case you missed my other post, the CCFD has a FF per capita rate between .35 FFs/capita - .7FFs/capita depending on what population figures you want to use.
Regarding the sick and vacation time... Your calculation assumes everyone uses 100 percent of their earned sick and vacation time, every year. That just isn't the case. I think you were also trying to say that when some uses sick/vacation time that we just work OT anyway. This is not possible. You can't signup to work OT or be forced to work OT if you are sick or on vacation.
CCFF is clark county fire right?...there is another department that also services Las Vegas, correct? That would change the per capita argument, would it not? I do not believe that there is a county overlapping coverage areas in Akron, but I am not sure.
Im saying that the risk is higher in areas with older structures that may not be up to the highest standards that we have.
Im talking about calling off sick on a tuesday and then picking up a shift later that week, not the same day.
Answer me this...HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU ACTUALLY WENT INTO A BURNING HOUSE WHERE YOU HAVE FEARED FOR YOUR SAFETY??? Thats just it...you don't do it that often. The average Las Vegas Citizen has feared their life more by going into bad areas then you have in fires. How many fires do you actually fight? You are an EMT working under the name of a fireman...not an insult but the truth
Until you have fought a ship-board fire (below decks) with NO protective gear you don't know what "unsafe conditions" are. All I'll say is that I've done it, more than once.
akrowdybuck, I see your question as 2 parts.
First, I've been in dozens of fires. In fact more than I can remember. Some were fully involved raging infernos and some were simple mattress fires. Some I've pulled bodies from and others I've ducked from exploding ammo. There's also car fires, commercial fires, hotel fires, etc. Every fire big or small has a potential to harm or kill you. The CCFD responded to about 3000 fire calls in our jurisdiction last year.
Secondly, How often am I scared? It varies, but yes sometimes I take pause at the circumstance I find myself in, collect myself and continue on. You see training, experience and teamwork go a long way to mitigate the sensation of fear. Add the sense of duty to act and now your understanding how I mitigate my fears.
If you think we're EMTs your right. The CCFD responds to about 100,000 medical emergencies a year. But in addition to the fire calls and medical calls, there's much more... Sometimes I stand around and console grieving family members after a family member has died. Sometimes I remove water from homes when people's water lines break. Sometimes I push stalled cars out of traffic so the occupants don't get struck by another vehicle, sometimes I give out gifts I've purchased to needy families in my response area. Sometimes I help LVMPD restrain suspects when they don't have enough police officers on scene. Sometimes I give medical patients taxi money when they need to go to the hospital, but won't because they dont know how they'll get home. Etc. etc. etc. You see, when I go to your emergency I do everything within my control to solve your emergency and make the situation better.
Regarding the "bad areas", where do you think we work? When someone calls 911 we respond. We respond to the "good" areas and the "bad" areas.
boftx, I've got no response for you other than Thank You. Thank you for serving in our armed forces.
Thanks for the numbers and the response. I am not nor do I think others are trying to say you do not provide a valuable, needed and highly respected service to our communities.
I respect what you do but I, like many others, do not agree with the pay. I specifically do not like the unions getting away from the market setting the prevailing wages. I do not like that the union restricts what is natural for a buiness to run efficiently (can you tell my background is in Economics?). If the union requires sucha high level of benefits and pay they are actually creating barriers to entry (from new hires) which creates/protects more overtime.
I do appreciate that you are able to have discourse without resorting to the "you are just hating on how much I make". You could only use this argument if I took issue with the cocktail waitresses, strippers, busboys (my buddy makes over 100k bussing tables at XS), casino workers, etc...the fact is that most of us do not have issue with what they bring home because it comes from tips and private companies.
I go to outside education for my work and I don't get overtime. They pay for the classes but I go on my own time. I work out after work at the gym (or I dominate that p90x haha) and I don't get paid for it.
If you guys are as understaffed as you say, how is it that you get paid and then get pushed into overtime pay, when doing so many things that aren't considered work by anyone outside of your department? Before you say you have to work out for your job so does half this town if they work in the service industry and if anything, if you are working out hard enough to get results, I would think it would impact your ability to do your real job if called upon!
The first post is probably still the most appropriate.
croc1, what positive aspect of the FF issue is there?
akrowdybuck, time to attend to other responsibilities. I'll respond to your last set of questions later. I see the question about working out, but I'm not sure what your asking in the first question of your last paragraph. If you want to rephrase I'll try to respond.
Buddy, I won't disparage what you do. I have called 9-1-1 twice for my most recent heart attacks (I'm a stubborn man, I refuse to die other than on my terms). Both of those times I had much more confidence in the FF EMT's who were present than the private ambulance people. So I will say "Thank you" to you as a representative of those EMT's (who knows, if you respond in NLV it might have been you). If nothing else the EMT's are much better at inserting IV's in a moving vehicle.
In the meantime, I expect you and I shall continue to debate how citizens should provide for their common good.
Gmag...I think that is the point behind the point. Most people understand that the politicians rolling over to the unions post 9/11 is a big reason we are in this mess. Therefore whomever the union supports we will not. That really is all we can do from our level, is it not?
Isn't it great that, even though we might be on different sides of the political fence, we can still find common ground!! I am in total agreement with you. Whomever the union supports, we will not. Great comment.
Good job Rory. Keep refusing to hire more firefighters. Keep paying these uneducated thugs exorbitant amounts of money. Good job again Rory kudos to you. This God willing will be part of your undoing. Like Sandoval, have you ever had a real job? The pickens are very slim this November Nevada. Heed my warning about partisan politics for once Nevada.
Sisolak is trying to deter away from his own thieving actions:
Sisolak was accused of pro-union bias in 2009. He chose a union contractor that bid $4.6 million more on a Las Vegas Beltway project than a non-union shop. Then he tried to discredit the non-union company by citing violations it incurred in multiple states.
A federal judge later ordered him and County Commissioner Tom Collins to not participate in awarding the bid. The case is now tied up in federal appeals court.
And he says he is about saving tax payer money:
Five years ago, Sisolak won $23.5 million in a lawsuit against the county for height restrictions imposed on 10 acres he owned in a low-fly zone near Las Vegas Boulevard and Warm Springs Road. He claimed the height limits diminished the land's value when he sold the parcel eight years ago, and that was an illegal taking of his property. (This was your tax dollars that were used to pay Sisolak)
akrowdybuck, regarding working out...
Service industry workers benefit from working out so they can benefit from a job marketplace that pays premiums for people that look a certain way. Firefighters need to work out because if we're not fit enough to get the job done we might actual become part of the emergency.
Firefighting is strenuous work. Imagine putting on a heavy sauna suit, then strap on an extra 100 pounds, put on a breathing mask that limits your breathing ability but is the only source of breathable air in an otherwise lethal air environment, then work at your maximum effort for about 20 minutes, before your first air bottle needs to be changed out for a new one. Take a few minutes to change your bottle and get a drink of water, but don't think you're gonna cool off because its 110 degrees in the shade and the emergency might not be over. Actually, depending on what it is, you could be repeating this cycle for hours.
The only thing that makes this scenario bearable is one's physical conditioning. And if your wondering, yes sometimes firefighters are transported to the hospital after working in these conditions. There's lots of ways to get injured or killed during an emergency. Some ways are related to accidents and others can be directly related to physical conditioning. If I get hurt or injured because of a lack of conditioning wouldn't that cost the County more money? They would be paying for my injury and they would also need to fill my seat while I recover. In an effort to prevent this scenario isn't it reasonable to allow or even require me to workout for say 60-90 minutes a day, even if on duty. Don't forget, I'm here for 24-72 hours whether I workout or not. Keep in mind that if you say yes, working out would not jepordize or interfer with the completion of my other daily responsibilities. As always I would still remain ready to respond to the next unscheduled emergency at a moments notice.
Why don't I just workout on my days off? I do, I workout every day my schedule permits, which is most. Actually on my days off my workout time runs about 2 hours or more.
Does all this working out impact my ability to do "my real job" if called upon? Some days I'm more sore than others, can I still work through the pain and do my job... absolutely. But I've also got adrenaline on my side. When confronted with an emergency there is a corresponding release of adrenaline depending on the perceived level of danger or need. Am I completely exhausted when everything is over? Sometimes, but fortunately my physical conditioning allows me to recover in a reasonable amount of time and ready myself for the next emergency.
Service industy workers benefit from working out so they can benfit from a job marketplace that pys premiums for people that look a certain way. Firfighters need to work out becuase if were not fit enough to get the job done we might actual become part of the problem.
Dear Manfromuncle,
Aren't you getting off the subject here? Coal miners chose their profession just as firefighters chose theirs. I have not heard of any draft since the 70's so the men and women in the armed services chose their profession as well and they ALL know the risks going in.
And FYI everyone, I will NEVER stop referencing 9/11 because if we don't learn from this lesson then you need to take up residence in a third world somewhere. The discussion about the fire photo not being taken in NLV tells me the media completely missed the point of the representative symbolism of the photo. Earthquakes, volcanoes, war, death, hunger and starvation are happening right now and you think where a picture was or wasn't taken is even worth mentioning?
Your local FF's have nothing to do with bank bailouts so don't lump them into the bag of government boogie men. When you are running out of a burning building crying for mommy they are running past you to get inside and save the people YOU left behind.
sorry for the repeated paragraph, I was organizing my thoughts and didn't see the duplicate.
Buddy, I made this comment to croc1 on another thread about the working out thing. I totally agree FF need to be in good shape for the job they do. However, I have to go back to my comment on "we can no longer do business as usual". Why is it, you guys can't have your workout equipment, at your firehouse? With economics as they are, the public doesn't need to see a bunch of FF at the gym, while on the clock, working out. So long as you guys keep snubbing your noses at the crisis we are in, using the excuses that this is the way its always been, you will continue to be scrutinized about your on duty activities and your refusal to make concessions to help Nevada and the other govt agencies who HAVE made concessions. And for the comment about Sisolak voting for a union outfit vs a non union outfit, do you know how much money Obama recieved from the unions during his campaign, to advocate the union in America? The power of the union is out of control.
lipton, You say you totally agree that FFs need to be in good shape and ask about working out at the firehouse. From these statements can I assume that you agree with the importance of FFs working out, even if on duty?
You ask why we can't have workout equipment at the firehouse... Most firehouses do. The firefighters pool together their own money and purchase some basic workout equipment. However, sometimes the ratio of firefighter to equipment makes it difficulty for everyone to workout. As a result sometimes its easier logistically to get everyone to workout at the same time by utilizing a gym (we pay for our own memberships) in their immediate response area or some other alternative workout location (building stairwells, bleachers, etc.).
I recognize the point you make about the economy and people's perceptions and I'm not trying to snub anyone's concerns. I simply and strongly believe that working out for all firefighters should be mandatory given the physical difficulty of our job.
Do you think that the public would be so upset if they were properly informed about the reasons why firefighters need to workout and why they workout at one location versus another?
What if the County management came forward and made a public statement during the next County health fair, they could even get Joe to write about it and the TV stations to run a clip about it. If the County management told the public that what we do is physically demanding, and they require their FFs to workout as part of there job, because it saves them money in the long run. They could develop a reasonable plan and provide the logic behind the policy. Do you think there would be so much hard feelings when people hear about or see us working out?
Of course the above will never happen, Joe and Steve will probably use FFs working out as the next big scandal. Maybe they will focus on some other necessary function. Headline, Headline... "Firefighters use bathroom while on overtime!!!!".
As far as concessions go, the County and the FFs union are in negotiations as we speak. I am in no way advised of the status of negotiations, but if they can both agree to give a bit you might see a contract that makes everyone a little happy and a little hurt. Otherwise it will end up in arbitration and the County's continued media leaks of negotiated subjects might push an arbitrator to conclude that the County negotiated in bad faith.
Don't worry the Sun and RJ readership is at 19%. The percentage of people who actually read all the bull written by about FF's is much even lower.
If you believe these stories about the evil firemen, then you must also believe in ...the H1N1 PANDEMIC, Y2K, and that the mob museum is a great idea. fools!