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Scot Rutledge of the Nevada Conservation League speaks last week about the Sonoran Institute’s study on Southern Nevada sustainability.
Monday, April 12, 2010 | 2 a.m.
Pat Mulroy
Related Document
Beyond the Sun
Environmentalists and Southern Nevada’s water chief Pat Mulroy finally agree on at least one point.
A report by the Sonoran Institute, an Arizona-based nonprofit think tank, says that if the Las Vegas Valley’s population grows to capacity using the Bureau of Land Management acreage designated for development, even the most stringent water conservation measures won’t be enough to ensure that everyone has enough H2O.
Filling in the remaining 27,000 acres using today’s zoning and planning rules would allow about a half-million more people to call the valley home.
The one big problem: There’s not enough water for all of them.
The Sonoran Institute says that would remain true even if the valley adopted measures such as banning residential lawns and requiring low-flow fixtures indoors.
In other words, as Mulroy is fond of saying: We can’t conserve our way out of our water problem.
But Mulroy and the institute report, which was funded by the Progressive Leadership Alliance of Nevada and the Toiyabe chapter of the Sierra Club, part ways on what the answer is.
For more than two decades, Mulroy has pushed for a pipeline that would divert up to 170,000 acre-feet of water from eastern Nevada to support growth in Lincoln County and the Las Vegas Valley.
The report echoes what environmentalists have been arguing for years, that instead of spending billions on a pipeline that could drain rural basins, kill off wildlife and ruin the rural ranching and tourism economy, the valley should reduce the amount of water it needs in the future by limiting growth.
And that’s really at the heart of this report. The valley could grow again. It could eventually fill the vacant homes and build a heck of a lot more, and it could construct a 300-mile pipeline to suck water out of eastern Nevada to support that.
But will that make a better Las Vegas?
The unimpeded growth of the past two decades has seriously harmed Las Vegas economically and ecologically, the report argues. And unless government takes action now, during the lull, the planning mistakes of the past 20 years could create an even more unsustainable future.
The status quo — fast-paced development and reliance on two industries, hospitality and construction — made the area economically vulnerable. The recessionary result has been devastating.
Chris Giunchigliani
The silver lining of the Great Recession is that it gives the community time to re-evaluate what it wants to be, says Clark County Commissioner Chris Giunchigliani, who supports the report’s findings.
“I don’t think there’s much resistance to at least having the conversation about what’s the next step for the recovery of the valley,” she says. “Now we should be stepping back and asking, ‘Is that what we want? Is it a product that’s going to attract people here and keep people here?’ Now we can ask, ‘What do we want the valley to look like?’ We didn’t have time before because of the growth boom.”
But to get away from Las Vegas’ old pattern, the region will need to cultivate new, more stable industries such as health care and renewable energy, both of which the report says could grow if the community invested heavily in education and focused on using available land and empty office parks to build these industries.
The current planning system isn’t set up to do this, the report says. At the report’s core is a recommendation to create an overarching planning body with the authority and mission of making the valley more economically, socially and environmentally sustainable. It would have to take into account, on any proposed master plan or project in the valley: energy, water, air pollution, transportation, economic diversification and the environment.
In short, it would be faced with accepting something Las Vegas has defied since its inception — the city is in the desert. The report says existing coalitions and commissions don’t have the authority or inclination to do this.
But Giunchigliani thinks the main change the report says is needed to save Las Vegas is possible under the current system. She plans to take the report to the Southern Nevada Regional Planning Coalition.
She said the report’s recommendation to consolidate planning under one body might eventually be achieved, but not all at once. The commissioner said change will have to come in a piecemeal fashion.
“That, I think, is the best way to approach this,” Giunchigliani said. “I think there’s an opportunity here. I don’t think we’ll see the type of resistance here that you would have seen when everyone was depending on growth.”
The report by the Sonoran Institute (noted above)is a great piece of work, and deserves attention. It makes some points that the politicans calling for MORE STUDIES fail to grasp.
WATER is the only thing that lets Nevada survive as a city in the desert. I think the politicians - and the people - should required the suggested limitations on growth, and give the rest of the people in Nevada a chance to be ensured that the "well will no run dry."
However, that said, I for one do not believe that Nevada can sustain even the reduced population it has with the limited water resources available. Usually, cities have a limitation on population per square something, where density cannot exceed that limitation. Las Vegas has only been interested gleefully saying: in "show me the money."
Well, the water levels at Lake Mead have shown us its limitations (look at the white "bathtub" ring) - yet we have ignored the obvious in favor of continued growth.
Nevada would be a fool not to take action to limit growth, and in doing so, stabilize the usage of water resources. Otherwise, Las Vegas will dry up and blow away.
A new concept of what is feasible is needed. That includes water availability.
This entire concept was in discussion and presented as a warning back in '95 when something could have actually been done about it, however the almighty dollar seduced our elected so called leaders to remain pro development with no vision of the future for infrastructure and common sense for growth in this valley. We all now face the consequences.
Of course these are the same people who think we should still allow massives amounts of legal and illegal immigration into this country.
Another report... the Southern Nevada Water Authority has never listen to the logic of any report.
The construction trade unions said there was not enough water to continue the rapid growth pursued by the Southern Nevada Water Authority clear back in 2001.
The truth is that the SNWA received a piece of the pie (profits) from the federal government when developers bought the land. So, the very agency who should have protect the citizens of Clark County was using growth to fill the treasuries...to promote projects that could be used to promote their own agendas
Here are three big fiasco's of the SNWA;
1. the 300 million dollar water bank in Arizona that will only return our water 'if' Lake Mead is flush with water... if it is flush why would we need the banked water?
2. the 500 million dollar water catch basin in California. Nevada was to pay 2/3rds of the cost for the construction and pay twice as much for any water returned to Nevada than Arizona and California would have to pay.
3. the 800 million dollar drain pipe put into Lake Mead (the 3rd drain pipe)... how is this working out?
AND let's not forget about the BILLION dollar price tag on a water pipe line from Northern Nevada which would increase water supply by 9%, while the SNWA continues to hand out water hook-ups which will increase water demand by 25%. This makes no sense at all... Yet no one looses their jobs at the SNWA...
This is why most citizens are tired of political leaders who just run agencies to enhance their own political careers and fail to protect the people.
Why doesn't the Clark County Commissioners just put a moratorium on all new home developments until the supply on the market is reduced enough to allow homeowners to make up some of the equity they have lost because of the glutton attitude of all the new home builders? Why do they still hand out new building permits today?
The majority of water used in Las Vegas is for power generation. This is why residential conservation efforts have minimal impact. The Sonoran Institute report and this article should have emphasized this fact.
"But Giunchigliani thinks the main change the report says is needed to save Las Vegas is possible under the current system."
Isn't the current system and the lack of intelligent and objective planning what caused this mess?
too late now, folks.
I don't care if Las Vegas has a professional sports team of any kind. Oscars goal of 3-3.5 million people is really bad. Southern Nevada Water Authority is a political action comittee. That means it is funded by people with a politacal objective. They have wasted over 400 million dollars buying ranches and water rights at inflated rates and lobbying for growth. While our schools are the worst. It's not so FABULOUS now is it you corrupt mayor.
Pay enough for it and the water will come to Las Vegas.
Just in the last 2 weeks, I saw an article on my Yahoo opening page about travel destinations to see before they are no longer. Las Vegas was one of these destinations. It had to do with exactly this - the water situation. THere is not enough water to sustain the city unless something drastic is done. The scary thing about the article and the water sitution is IN OUR LIFETIMES Vegas can disappear because of the water shortage.
I will continue to try and find the article (I should have bookmarked it) and post what I can find.
I reject most of this article. The Sonoran Institute has a political agenda. As soon as anything becomes political, you can take the real facts and throw them out the window.
I know an old lady who swallowed a fly...
She swallowed a 2nd straw to fix the fly I guess she will die.
She swallowed a 3rd straw to fix the 2nd straw, I guess she will die.
She swallowed a longer straw to fix the 2nd and 3rd straw, I guess she will die.
She wants to swallow a multibillion dollar pipeline to a freaking dry valley to fix all the other bullship she has been swallowing......she is dead of course.
don't worry. when the obamao's higher taxes kick in next year, nobody will be able to afford to come to vegas.
There is a lot of talk about the looming water shortages in the American southwest and the pipe line from central Nevada to the Vegas valley.
The biggest question of this idea is cost and how long will the aquafier last?
I think there is a better source of water available for the Southwest... The Mississippi river .. if the major players in our area, both public and private were to combine their efforts and do a study on the feasibility of a pipeline connecting a series of reserviors across the arid regions I believe there would be a consensus on its viability.
Expensive? Of course it would be ,but there is enough water going out to sea every day to support millions of new residents and the towns that would spring up around the reservoirs.
If such a pipeline/s followed Interstate hwys 10 and/or 40 right of ways, the cost and impact of such a project would be significantly reduced.
10% of the average daily flow of Mississippi river flow at New Orleans is 50 billion gallons of water,approx 40,000 acre ft.!
Could the country that built such projects as the Panama canal turn the desert into an economic bonanza that would rival some of Americas most prosperous growth spurts?
Remember, they take all the water useage and divide it by the local population. That includes all the business use, like the casinos who draw millions of vistors each year. All the man made lakes, all the commercial waste of water.
In other news: the sky is blue, the earth is round, and Kirstie Alley is kind of overweight.
Hi Everyone - Gems of Nirvana is NOW is LAS VEGAS - Yeaaa!
My water concern was my main argument to my wife against moving here, however.....I have a couple concerns about this report.
First off - let me say that I have not seen Lake Mead and the reduction in water, but I will accept the premise that it's running out.
Now - are there any reports to contradict this report? My experience has shown me two things about the mainstream media - they always tell the bad news and they are always slanted liberal.
Why is one of the responses from the county commissioner "the region will need to cultivate new, more stable industries such as health care and renewable energy" - What's that got to do with water consumption?
Does this running out of water argument (dry up and die mentality) the same as global warming, which we all know was full of false data.
Remember, it IS common sense that Lake Mead would get lower without sustained rains, snow falls to fee the CO River, etc. I accept that. But, are we talking about The Day After Tomorrow scenario or a way for libs to continue to push their agend like expanding healthcare and renewable energy?
By the way, where are all the windmills?
Oh yeah - about the pipeline - 1 bil isn't that much - just make sure it works. Milwaukee built a billion dollar deep sewer system that was suppose to only allow waste to be ejected into the rivers and Lake MI for rainstorms that occur "once every hundred years"
Yeah right - almost every single time it rains, billions of gallons of waste are still pumped out into the Lake.
So - I think it is worth the money - but only if it WORKS
I think the bigger question is what are all these people going to do for a job? This one industry town has already proven that too much growth can't be sustained and we have the unemployment numbers to back it up.
Why not ask Jim Rhodes how he thinks we could solve this problem?
Whoever "delivers" this scarce and depleting water to Southern Nevada would be in the position to rape their ratepayers.
The video Blue Gold recently reported that Las Vegas was somehow involved with the French water company Suez. I have no supporting evidence of that, however it would make so much sense for all of SNWA's seemingly irrational behaviour. SNWA exectutives may have somehow figured out how to privatize key functions, and it makes more sense to get as much of Rural Nevada's water rights as possible before they make the deal public.
http://noshootfoot.blogspot.com/2009_08_...
I believe the supporting evidence of the Southern Nevada Water Authority's involvement with Suez is pretty clear. Pat Mulroy is touring the country trying to entice other municipal governments to 'PRIVATIZE'!
Google Mulroy and Suez and see for yourself.
Why is this important to Southern Nevada???
Water Investment World: NEW OIL Conferance
Mr. Patrick Cairo,
Executive VP,
Suez Environment North America
Ms. Patricia Mulroy,
General Manager,
Southern Nevada Water Authority
Ms. Kathy Shandling,
Executive Director,
International Private Water Association
http://www.terrapinn.com/2009/waterworld...
The county won't even try and Stop Jim Rhodes from building homes out in Red Rock canyon. How can we expect them to initiate growth limitations for the entire valley when they WON'T even try to enforce them in one specific corner that the public as a whole is already calling for?
stevem, again, your arrested social-development skills are showing.
This has nothing to do with Obama. Try to follow
the bouncing ball, and be a good boy.
There isn't time to address this problem. It would take years to go through processes necessary to build sustainability into the law. By that time, the economy will recover, and the developers will be banging at the Courthouse doors, screaming for approval of their mega-developments. The elected officials, who will always be connected to real estate and development, will be more than happy to accomodate them. It's inevitable.
My thoughts are this:
1) This article makes a great point that we need to invest in education and diversify this city's focuses so that we don't solely rely on construction and tourism for jobs. The only problem is, many people are in those jobs currently, and don't want to hear about anything involving giving the state a better education on the collegiate level. I'm not saying everyone would say no, I am just online to know what people think about it. But it would help greatly.
2) Limit the population; or at least the construction of homes, similar to what Boulder City does. Any Master Planned Community that is currently underway should be given the chance to finish, but no new developments (IM TALKING TO YOU JIM RHODES). If in 15-20 years, we invest in education and we are more than just a tourist destination, then maybe we talk about more developments.
I must also say that in my opinion I think investing in such bold initiatives such as health care and renewable energies brings with them individuals who hold degrees from distinguished institutions, and from which UNLV could benefit from being able to increase tuition for those degress granted they are challenging. They bring higher salaries, which in my opinion would increase spending and more importantly the "type" of people who live here.
When you have seniors who are looking to retire here with professionals looking to "spruce" up this crime ridden city - I believe you end up with the strip being for hooligans and tourists and the rest of the city finally getting out of the top ten in crime. =)
Just my ramble haha.
Then stop issuing building permits.
Gemsofnirvana:
You took water for granted living in Wisconsin. It's always there and will always be there for another million years. You didn't think twice when you flushed your toilet. That's not the case for Las Vegas or the desert southwest. It's a DESERT, not the fertile, green farmlands that you are used to. It is a real problem and yes, Vegas will run out of water someday, and there is a chance you will be living there when it does, albeit an old old person when it happens. There have been many reports stating that the desert southwest will run out of water someday. This article is not some mainstream media ploy. It is common sense. Again - it is THE DESERT. An overpopulated desert.
Go take a look at Lake Mead. It is heartbreaking to see how far the water has gone down. And it will continue to do so. The 7 years I lived there it went down a couple of feet if not more.
Welcome to the desert. You're not in Wisconsin anymore, Dorothy!!!
actually, it DOES have a lot to do with obama within the context of my posting.
he plans to tax people to the point they will not be creating any jobs (other than government jobs, of course) and the "evil rich people" and the retired people that WOULD have moved here...meaning we would need more water...will not be able to afford to move anywhere, or maybe even retire at all.
again...
you always resort to calling me names because you have no REAL defense to what i say.
The problem with Milwaukee water is that it's full of crap - literally.
If there are solutions to the Vegas water issue, then follow through with the solutions. As a newcomer, I love it here.
My neighborhood is nice and I think the people are as friendly as I am at least. I say good morning, they say good morning.
Think of it this way, when the problem, REALLY is a problem beyond a fix - then people will be be leaving in droves.
We are not going to sit here an die. Use common sense. I assume many of you are still here, why?
I think the Gov and congress-people of this state need to lobby for fed funds to help the water situation.
I'm not big on using tax payer money for this or that, but I say YES to basic infrastructure.
Agree? Disagree?
So you move to a desert & then complain about the WATER issues??
Several things - ban green lawns - NOW! Have them all gone in 6 months.
Ok, the water authority should use the Mississippi as a resource by buying a fleet of moving trucks and staffing them to move anyone from Las Vegas for free who is willing to live in some of the great cities of the Mississippi Valley - Minneapolis and freeze their behinds, maybe a river city in Iowa, St. Louis where they can enjoy good professional sports and see a failed project by the city of Las Vegas' - Cordish, Memphis where you can really play Elvis and sit on his front steps, the Mississippi Delta where you can sing the blues about what you lost in Vegas, or New Orleans perhaps the only real melting pot in America. So there is a solution!
"Everything makes perfect sense when expressed in dollars and cents." -Roger Waters
Lake Powell is full and needs to release MORE water to Lake Mead NOW. Unfortunately Mulroy made some crazy back office deal that allows Powell to retain all the extra water in order to help drain Mead and force us to build her pipeline across land purchased by her and her cronies. Also, how much money do these other states pay for the water they receive? How about we double the amount they pay because I am sure it is not enough! There is a TREMENDOUS amount of water wasted in Los Angeles, let them pay for it.
GemsofNirvana:
The only good thing right now is the population has gone down which will help. The population at one time was not into the numbers that it has been in the last several years which put a strain on the water supply Even when we bought our first home in 2000, the water issue was talked about then and it was in the back of our minds but we still went ahead and purchsed the home and eventually moved there knowing full well that someday the valley will run out of water but we figured we would be dead by then and it wouldn't matter.
As far as the State getting fed funds - forget it!! Our tax money is spread so thin now and the last thing the rest of the country is going to care about is if Las Vegas is going to have enough water!! Vegas was built as a vacation destination, not a city with over a million people. And as is mentioned by many here, the greed of those running things outweighed the seriousness of the water issue and the building continued.
PS You think Milwaukee water is bad - try drinking out of the tap in Vegas!! You will miss that "crappy" Lake Michigan water, trust me!! It always has a film to it and tastes really bad. Invest in a water filter. Or be prepared to buy bottled water or plan on weekly trips to the "water stores"! You'll see after there is that rare rain storm in Vegas, the stuff that is in the water will surface on the pavement.
This really is not such a big problem. Some suggestions:
1. Implement the pipeline from eastern Nevada. No one is going to miss the water; after all, it is mostly underground.
2. Run a pipeline from Lake Tahoe to Las Vegas. There is a lot of water in that lake. Who is going to notice if the lake goes down a few feet or so? What is more important, a pretty view or the growth of Southern Nevada and the lives of those that choose to live here? Me, me, me, me.
3. Run pipelines from all the regions in the U.S. that receive too much water and suffer periodic flooding. The citizens of those areas should be more than willing to pay for the pipelines since it will be getting rid of the water that causes so much destruction to them.
4. Require that all visitors to Las Vegas bring along with them the amount of water they expect to consume while here along with a few extra gallons for the rest of us. TSA will simply have to alter their ridiculous miniscule limit on liquids carried on board airplanes.
5. Work with California to build desalination plants along the Pacific Coast then pipe the water to Nevada. Desalination is presently a bit expensive and it is an energy hog creating a lot of heat; however, desalination plants built along with incorporated energy plants alleviate much of those concerns.
A desalination plant is already under construction near San Diego, CA. and is expected to be online by the end of 2012. California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger said of ocean desalination: "We need it. It's not a choice." Las Vegas also needs it, and it is not a choice.
Desalination of ocean water gets my vote.
I would've done this study for them for $50,000. It certainly would've saved them more money and all I had to do was use my brain.
I have been hearing this my whole entire life. Seriously, when I was going to school in California, every single year we were "having a drought". Then when I moved to Las Vegas of course we're running out of water. I do know the lake levels have dropped, it's visible. I am just so sick of hearing this that I simply don't care anymore.
When we do run out of water we'll either move or die. I'm going to start letting the water run while I brush my teeth and washing my car in the driveway again.
stevem, shouldn't you be reading your bedtime stories before mommy tucks you in. be a good boy and put the keyboard away.
MG, Lake Powell is 81 feet below full pool, 56% of capacity. It has the same bath tub ring as Mead.
http://lakepowell.water-data.com/
Two things about this article:
1. This will be another excuse to raise your water rates through the roof, as if it already isn't.
2. You won't have to worry about population growth anytime in the near future.
The truth is people are leaving in droves to others parts of the country where there are jobs and opportunities to make money. The only ones making money there right now are the casinos who still want everyone to believe they aren't making any profits. Yeah, right!
No worries, Vegas locals. You will have plenty of water for many years, but that may be all you have......
"A desalination plant is already under construction near San Diego, CA. and is expected to be online by the end of 2012. California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger said of ocean desalination: "We need it. It's not a choice." Las Vegas also needs it, and it is not a choice.
Desalination of ocean water gets my vote."
THIS is probably THE best method. Water rates will definitely go up but as Arnold says "it is not a choice". CA uses up most of the water anyway so now it's their turn to do their part. Most if not all of the islands in the Caribbean have desal plants and if those places can afford it and have success with those plants, so can California and neighboring States that can purchase the water.
Drain Lake Powell?
" Each year, enough water is wasted by the dam to supply the entire City of Los Angeles. That's three times Nevada's annual allotment and enough to supply the Salt Lake Valley for five years."
http://www.glencanyon.org/library/water....
Something to consider. Restoration of the Grand Canyon ecosystem would be an additional benefit.
"I am just so sick of hearing this that I simply don't care anymore."
"all other cities can dry up and die as far as I'm concerned"
WTF? Are you guys in like, Junior High?
Despite the efforts of Las Vegas politicos to divert water to Clark County from areas to the North this most likely will not occur. Yes SNWA has spent a fortune on this effort and we are paying for it. The federal wildlife areas and wetlands to the north of Las Vegas will be rightfuly protected by their owners which are all American Citizens.
This entire idea and concept is so ill concieved it is now a vivid example of how not to solve a problem and should end up in such a light in future works on sustainable developement.
After reading Okra's comment I just went and flushed the toilet for no reason at all.
Don't make me flush it again old man.
"When we do run out of water we'll either move or die. I'm going to start letting the water run while I brush my teeth and washing my car in the driveway again."
Get a grip, henderson. Your whole entire life - what's that 30 years now? Or are you an old fart? Oh but you're a Cali boy - that understands your "I give a S&it" attitude. Guess you flushed your brains down the toilet that second time you flushed. Or is it each time you flush? Impressed that you brush your teeth, too. How do you EVER find the time to brush and flush when you're always on here spouting off your nonsense?
Maybe you'll be one of the first to move....or die....because of lack of water or it'll probably be your "who gives a s&it attitude".
I brush my teeth all the time, at least 7 times a day because it's the only set of teeth I have and they're going to have to last me a lifetime. I conserve SOME things.
And you're exactly right, I don't give a $hit.
It's taken me a long time to develop my give a $hit attitude. I will no longer subscribe to the environmentalists "the sky is falling" demands.
If I want to wash my flippin car I'm going to and that's all there is to it.
As far as being the first to move or die, someone always has to be first.
Now excuse me, I'm going to turn on the empty dishwasher and wash a load of air in the laundry room.
IT IS A REAL PROBLEM - as for lots of these comments I would suggest that you drink beer but I suspect you did that before you posted.
Ok, I want a grant and I will help you all out by moving to Memphis or New Orleans - there I will probably drown while you die of thirst.
I think I might drain my pool and fill it back up again just for fun.
I might not even hook the hose into the right drainage pipe. The like to recycle that water you know.
mrxroc8,
Your thinking is way over the average Las Vegas Sun bloggers head.
Your thinking is more suited for the Noam Chomsky, Gore Vidal, Al Gore type thinker.
I agree 100% with you, understand the issue(s), and to be honest "Purchased stock in Suez Environnemental" some time again.
I cannot beat them but sure plan to be there when the idea takes hold.
Gems of Nevada;
People here wont invest one dime in infrastructure. No train no transit and no water. That would be communism!
They think private industry will solve everything. Nevermind that no company will front billions to make a profit in over 10 years.
They wont invest in anything. For years casinos and tourist paid everything. As much as they cry to diversify, they will never get the money from new companies like they did the casinos.
Sad.
Gems of Nirvana:
Taxpayers picked up the tab for just about all the development of the western states. And they still do today. Railroads, timber, mining, damn construction/irrigation schemes: all paid for by taxpayers and sold off or given away for private benefit. Google "owens valley" to see an example how this works.
There are still many things that can be done to conserve water here in this region.
For instance when you turn your shower on how long does it take for the hot water to reach the shower for you to begin to bathe,While waiting for this water to turn warm or hot the water that has run for some time and gone down the drain.This can add up to several gallons on water per household per day.
This goes for Labratory Sinks Kitchen sinks and so fourth.
You could reduce this waste pretty easily by requiring all new homes to be built with recirculation pumps that are at the water heater.
The recirculation pump continuiously circulates hot water through the hot water lines so when you turn on the hot water there is not wait for hot water and you are able to start your shower or project immediately and this would reduce waste of water waiting for it to heat up.
The plumbing indusrty is very familiar with this due to it is commonly used in the hotel industry
The building code enforcement can easily enforce this and also could require new homes and apartments to use water conservation shower heads that reduce the distribution of water but also maintaing a reasonable amount of water preasure.
The next option the Government could look at is bringing in water from the ocean.We have develope ways of purifying water from sewage plants I am sure we have ways of using some of the same technology in purifying water from the ocean.
It sounds like they much rather spend Billions of dollars to bring water from other regions depleating those resources instead of using that same money and ring the water from a extremly large source.This is what I dislike about politicians they do not think outside the box.
If we are capable of building the Panama Canal and the Hover Dam,Nuclear Power Plants.I am sure we can develope a water purification system that would purify ocean water.Of Course California Arizona Nevada would all have to agree to this kind of project and yes the Bozo's in Washington.In reality we have farmers in California that can not supply water to their farms because of some little fish Please get a grip and Nancy Pelosi backed the fish until she wanted health care to pass and used that pull she has to convince the represnatives in those ares to vote for health care by saying she would help turn the water supply back on. The Washington politicians trully do nt care.
Wow, Vegas can't handle anymore growth? Or Henderson? Or North Las Vegas?. Sometimes you wish you could just choke the $%^@#&'s that you told to slow down the growth 10 yrs ago. And some of thse idiots are still in office,arrrrrgh!!! . I can remember a local mayor stating that growth for growths sake is not a good thing, and then his city grows to the second largest in the state. So 10 yrs later someone realizes that we don't need any more growth,wel ladeda, must have rode the small bus because they are slow to catch on.
When the rights to water from the Colorado were drawn up Nevada had little population and even less political clout. Because you still have little political clout versus the other states that get the vast majority of Colorado river water, Nevada is alone in wanting the regulations revisited and no one is listening. So Nevada gets a drop in the bucket while all those movie stars and their rich neighbors have manicured multiple football field size lawns.
No need to pipe desalization water from the sea to Las Vegas. Just trade the output to California to get more water from the Colorado. This has been proposed in the past and the environazis shot it down because the putting the salt back in the water would make it saltier. Another stupid excuse to send human kind back to the caves. If the wackies are so concearned about putting the salt back in the water ship it to the areas that use salt in the winter on roads. Help offset the cost of desalinization and less reliance on underground mining for salt. The problem with desalization is it's a very energy intensive process. Very expensive.
I have quite a few underground pipelines within a mile of my house that have been installed in the last decade. They are hundreds of miles long and mostly go over land that is easy for laying pipe. According to the installers, and this was a few years ago, even this easy to lay pipeline cost over $1 million per mile. Can't even imagine the cost for a pipe from the Mississippi to Nevada with the extreme terrain. Will the midwesterners let you have their water? Doubt it. They will join up with the environazis and it will still be in the courts when your great great grandchildren retire.
The US states and Canada have effectively shut off Great Lakes water to anyone not in the basin. Their #1 fear has always been that if they let anyone not in the basin to have access then the western states would be first in line to drain them.
Las Vegas has always been a city of reckless growth and playground for developers. If the city has a plan to grow it will take years to fill all the empty, houses, apartments, office parks and schools that sit empty and idle. LV need s a moratorium on growth that has anything to do with additional building. Its time for 10-20 years of controlled grown where expansion is only allowed into existing properties.
Its time to stop creating false economies based on building when none is needed, it unethical and wasteful and bad for Las Vegas and Nevada.
THIS IS ONE THE LARGEST BULLS... ARTICLE I HAVE EVER READ???
WHAT THE HECK IS THIS!!???
A BUNCH OF PESSIMISTIC PEOPLE... WHO WANT TO SCARE AND DESTROY THE CONFIDENCE AND POWER OF LAS VEGAS!!! AAAAHHHHH!!!!
DONT LISTEN TO THESE PEOPLE..... We have plenty of room and of course DEMAND IN THE FUTURE!!!
Lets stop listening to pessimistic people....
AND REACH OUT FOR THE STARS!!! ALSO LISTEN TO ME AND EXPLODE LIKE CRAZY......
Here is the plan.....
1. DUMP THE BUREAU OF LAND MANAGMENT!! Those cowards created growth boundaries...THAT DROVE AND SCREWED THE HOME PRICES OF THE LAS VEGAS VALLEY......by creating a SUPPLY SHORTAGE!!!
2. BRING A TRULY FREE MARKET ECONOMY TO EXPLODE THE VALLEY!!
-REDUCE TAXES AND HAVE MAJOR DEREGULATION!!!
Only fund public safety and infrastructure!! Oh yes.. STOP THE CRAP FANNIE AND FREDDIE BULL***T THAT WRECKED THE VALLEY'S MORTGAGES!!!
-Stop those wealth redistributing programs that PAY PEOPLE TO FAIL AND REDUCE PERSONAL PRODUCTIVITY including Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, etc.... HAVE PRIVATE GROUPS HELP PEOPLE OUT!!
-REDUCE LABOR LAWS!! That means unnecessary min wage, OHSA, and all the other mess regulations!! MAKE THE LABOR MARKET COMPETITIVE!!
-ABOLISH THE CCSD AND ALL THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENTS!!! Stop those cowards for WASTING OUR TAX FUNDS AND PROVIDE POOR SERVICE TO YOUNG INDIVIDUALS!!! Deliver competition, choice, and PROFIT DRIVEN INNOVATION OUR LEARNING SYSTEMS!!!
3. EDUCATE THE VALLEY ABOUT INVESTING AND $$$$ MANAGEMENT!!! Help the valley gain its investments spirit, avoid liabilities, and HAVE $$$ WORK FOR THEM!!
Go stocks and real estate!!
4. NEW URBAN AND ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN. Let private companies do more of the work and design mixed-use, diverse towns that provide transportation choice, energy efficient, have social gathering places, and characterized by architectural appeal!!!
-OH YEAH BABY!! LETS SPRAWL AND GROW LIKE CRAZY!!
Let us hit 4 million by 2020 and 8 million by 2030!!!
SOMEDAY MY DREAMS WILL COME TRUE!!
Thank you neutral
I believe the readers here know very well what is going on. The problems of corruption have become so massive and blatant, people have become apathetic because there seems to be no cure or resolution in sight. None of the major 'players' ever face justice. Nothing ever seems to change for he benefit of the People!
Same lies..different day!
The U.S. derivative GDP ratio is now at 93-1, worse than Greece! The largest monetary bubble in human history is about to pop ($200 TRILLION), so I do not share your optimism about the Empire eState Casino! Bet on Vegas to WIN!
PS I added a minute to my sprinkler watering...shhh don't tell the WATER POLICE!
Cyrus992
Your "enthusiasm"...well, it's getting tiring. Some times you make good points but other times - you have no idea what the hell you are talking about such as
-OH YEAH BABY!! LETS SPRAWL AND GROW LIKE CRAZY!!
Let us hit 4 million by 2020 and 8 million by 2030!!!
PS Ease up on the caffeine, okay?
ONCE AGAIN WE HAVE A VERY REAL PROBLEM - I know this is a libertarian area but you really could learn a lot if you looked at the most cosmopolitan city in the world and their example - very successful - that is Toronto, Ontario, Canada where there is lots of control and intelligent planning. It is an optimistic place. To just throw out your ego and say go go go will probably help you to run into a very deep ditch.
Are they really just noticing this now?
revtomperl are you from Toronto?
either way they should put a cap on new home building and let the existing supply gain some value and stability.
Not from Toronto - did spent a bit of time there - the most cosmopolitan - that is, ethnically diverse city in the world and very vibrant!
I think you should all go to office depot or other similar places and buy packing boxes so you beat the rush when there is no more water. It doesn't have to be that way - the most optimistic thing I know to do is to go out and kill the green lawns, do various radical ways of saving water. Really we can't steal water from others, get serious this is the desert - I will contribute to the folks on the Mississippi who want to keep you from stealing their resources. We have done enough evil - killing Indians, hanging African Americans, killing Iraqi civilians, etc. Do the right thing - adapt to the desert.
My pet peeve used to be broken sprinkler heads - on private or even public property, ie Aliante Parkway comes to mind. Water running down the street but not going where it was supposed to. People too lazy to set their sprinker systems according to the time of year AND watering restrictions along with broken heads where the water again is running down the street instead of on their ridiculous lawns.
Det_Munch....
I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT....
My hope and dream... is to STOP PESSIMISM LIKE THIS MESS GIVEN IN THIS ARTICLE.....
and make sure we have the tools we need for Clark County.... to hit 8 million people by 2030.....
And belive me.... we can GROW the RIGHT WAY...
See my design plan above!!! ^^^^^^^
luvthadirt:
You gave a WRONG POINT!!!
I Understand we have an "EXCESS SUPPLY" of housing now..... but...
WE DID NOT BUILD TOO MUCH....
WE BUILT TOO LITTLE....
Why was the average home prices 300K????
Answer: EXCESS DEMAND..LITTLE SUPPLY....
During the boom....WE NEEDED MORE HOUSES!!!
Why did Home prices go up???
Stupid and insane Bureau of Land Management Land Restrictions blocked room for housing developments... and HOME PRICES JACKED UP!!!
Then Fannie and Freddie... screwed mortages to make housing affordable.....
THE LOANS WERE UNSTABLE = MASS FORECLOSURES!!
Stop BLM, Fannie, and Freddie!!! Or else.....
I WILL AND I WILL BE HEARD!!!
this city can't afford anymore growth. to many empty storefront. to many empty houses
These comments are reminiscent of Winchester Cathedral - preachers preparing sermons that will never be heard - fortunately there will not be 8 million folks in the valley and the water lines to northern Nevada and the Mississippi River won't be built. Enjoy the desert while you are able. I capitalize DESERT.
I am originally from Toronto. It is a water smart city even though it borders on lake Ontario.
well all the world needs to concern itself with an ongoing supply of potable water - the great lakes have had pollution problems - I was around Lake Erie in the early 60's when you could go to the beaches and they would have thousands of dead fish strewn on them and folks with shovels and dump trucks would pick them up.
I live in Henderson in the Seven Hills Area and I think it should be mandatory to have desert landscape only. That is all they are worried about is watering the grass in this area. Change it to artificial grass. I know its expensive but maybe in the long run this will be better. Same thing for the homeowners change your grass in front and back to desert landscape to save water. If you can't afford it the city should have a plan to help you pay for this. This is just my opinion. They are destroying Las Vegas and all the surrounding areas with all of this building and population growth. You have to remember this is desert and I am sure they never expected this to happen. STOP destroying this once great town by stopping the building of more and more homes and the wasting of water.
Great Idea!
In addition let's convert all of the Golf Courses, artificial lakes and ponds to Desert Landscaping and artificial grass as well.
It will save a lot of water and money!
http://www.vegas.com/golf/courseguide/
and make sure we have the tools we need for Clark County.... to hit 8 million people by 2030.....
And belive me.... we can GROW the RIGHT WAY..."
The desert is not capable of handling 8 million people, CYRUS!!! It is not possible. You're dreaming. It is THE DESERT. Other parts of the country that have 8 million people in one area (much larger than Clark County I may add) have problems and they're not even in the desert and barely have the FINANCIAL resources to keep not only the water flowing, but the infrastructure. Not only would the natural resources be stretched to the max in THE DESERT, it's the infrastructure. Vegas couldn't handle the population explosion as it was during the boom years. After moving there in 2002, I remember reading a story about the spaghetti bowl. It was NEVER built to withstand the traffic volume that travels on it today. If there was an earthquake, that whole structure would come tumbling down along with all the traffic.
I loved it in Vegas back when we first bought our house in 2000. There was still desert all around you, there was still the natural habitat of the desert all around. At night, you could hear the coyotes howling at the moon! Now you hear the trucks unloading at Albertson's!! The place is way over built, too many homes, too many EMPTY strip malls. Every empty piece of land is built on.
BTW Cyrus north of Las Vegas all belongs to the government, the military in particular. I doubt they'll be selling any of that land anytime soon - not in our lifetimes anyway.
Your design plan is one huge dream that will never happen.
Det_Munch....
I understand your point.....
Yes... we do need to preserve the natural habitat... and the water supply is difficult...
Look, what I am trying to do... is to give much needed confidence for the Las Vegas Valley.... to grow, invest, and dream...
Please... dont make me look weak..... I just want to make a difference in your opportunistic valley....
dipstick:
FYI, I use the caps lock to highlight my point...
Be my guest...PLEASE READ THEM!! Thank you..
http://www.lvrj.com/news/mining-in-ely-c...
Since when has the cost of (our/any) human lives ever superseded (their) monetary gain??
This (article above)looks (to me) like a FINE example...of what is yet to come for us here on Vegas. And conservation...it's no longer going to be able to pull us out of this. (google "las vegas water supply" and "las vegas water supply 2010") From what I read, it's no longer about conservation...that should have been considered 10 years ago...it could have helped us THEN.
It's about getting the right plan...into action. It's about the cost; do you think we're going to have(find) the money for this plan considering the current economy? I do not think so...it would have been acted upon already if it was important to those with the power to put it into effect.
Question:
If you had to choose between 7 years of "mining" and more water for the population...which would YOU choose? Which did THEY choose? It's happening in NV as we post. Either we Nevadans have more water than we are being made aware of...which explains the delay in proper (re:human condition) action...or somebody else has other plans.
First time...shame on you. Second time, shame on ME. But let's get real folks...this is nothing new.
Doesn't get any more recent, on point, or parallel though...timing is everything. Words to live by a lot more lately.
Cyrus992 :
Please lay off the caps and caffein like Det_Munch advised earlier..
Det__Munch , I really dont think our city will just dissaper were one of the largest citites in the nation if they will rebuild new orleans they will bring water to vegas. Im sure they can come up with an innovative solution to our problem without draining water from northern nevada.