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Dave Stilwell, a truck driver from Las Vegas who always carries a gun for self-defense, said, “When I started to open carry a couple years ago, I would have guessed that 90 out of 100 people didn’t think it was legal.”
Wednesday, April 7, 2010 | 2 a.m.
WHAT OPPONENTS SAY
More guns open the door for more danger. The wild, wild West wasn’t a safe place precisely because more people carried guns.
An increased presence of firearms increases the possibility that a bystander could be hit by a stray bullet, or that a criminal will get a citizen’s gun and use it for no good. Even some Second Amendment advocates say an individual openly carrying a gun in a public area can result in the same reaction that a false warning of fire can in a crowded theater.
WHAT PROPONENTS SAY
The Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution declares the right of the people to keep and bear arms, so anyone openly carrying a firearm should not need a permit — and, in fact, in Nevada, that is the case.
Advocates of the state’s open-carry law say that not everyone who carries a gun is a bad person, and that if more people carried firearms, those people who do wish to use them unlawfully would think twice before doing so.
HOW METRO POLICE ARE TOLD TO DEAL WITH PEOPLE OPENLY CARRYING GUNS
Metro’s 20-minute refresher course on open carrying of firearms, produced in-house, begins with the statement that Nevada is an open-carry state.
It goes on to tell officers that there are three ways to “engage” a person who is openly carrying a firearm: a consensual stop, in which an officer casually walks up to an individual and attempts to engage in conversation but does not make an arrest if the person simply walks away; a “Terry stop,” in which an officer has a reasonable suspicion that the person may have committed a crime or is about to do so; or an arrest.
The training depicts three scenarios using still photos.
The first scenario, which occurs on the Strip, involves an anonymous tip shortly after midnight of an armed white or Hispanic man, roughly 5-foot-10 with a medium build. The tipster says the individual is wearing a blue shirt, black baggy shorts and has a black bandana hanging from a rear pocket, which can be considered a gang symbol. When officers arrive, they see that an individual closely matching that description has a cup in his hand and is 30 feet away from a large group of people. The officers are instructed to approach the individual to determine his frame of mind. If intoxicated, he could be arrested for possessing the firearm. He also would be in trouble if he were an underage drinker or an ex-felon in possession of a firearm. If he’s not intoxicated and there is no suspicion that he has or is about to commit a crime, there is no reason to detain him.
In the next scenario, which takes place after 3 a.m. in a neighborhood known for drug peddling and gang violence, a woman calls police to report a young Asian man in her backyard with a gun and a small dog. By the time police arrive a few minutes later, they spot a man matching the description wearing a beanie and walking a dog on a leash on the sidewalk. The officers are instructed to approach the individual and ask him whether he was in the backyard — which would have been trespassing — and to try to determine whether the beanie could be used as a mask. Because he has no burglary tools and the woman did not report any theft or property damage, the officers are instructed to let him go if they have no other reason to detain him.
In the final scenario, officers at the Fremont Street Experience one evening during a festival of live entertainment come upon seven armed adults — five white men, a black man and a white woman — standing around but not drinking. In that instance, officers are instructed to leave those individuals alone.
Just about everybody on the Metro Police force has heard of Tim Farrell, and he sometimes gets mistaken for a law enforcement officer.
Farrell is simply a 29-year-old wireless Internet engineer — and a gun rights crusader. He is one of what appears to be a growing number of people taking up the “open-carry” cause, advocating a constitutional right to openly carry firearms.
“The open-carry movement has gained momentum over the last four or five years because people are waking up to their rights,” Farrell says. “I don’t need a permit to exercise free speech. I don’t need a permit to be tried by a jury if I’m accused of a crime, so why do I need a permit to carry a gun if I have a constitutional right to carry a gun?”
Nevada is a better place than most for Farrell because it is "an open--carry state." Nevada reiterates the right to bear arms in its constitution and does not have blanket restrictions on law-abiding citizens’ open carrying of firearms.
That’s why a dozen or so people who attended the March 27 Tea Party rally in Searchlight were able to openly carry firearms.
One was Dave Stilwell, a 44-year-old truck driver from Las Vegas who always carries a gun for self-defense.
He says he was jogging back from a garage sale near his house one morning last May with his .45-caliber pistol on his hip. Around Jones Boulevard and Cheyenne Avenue, a Metro patrol car rolled up slowly behind him.
A shopkeeper had called police after seeing the gun, said the officer, who took the pistol from Stilwell, removed the magazine and the bullet in the chamber, checked the ID number on the gun and then returned the weapon and ammunition to Stilwell before driving away.
“I just told the officer I was exercising my body and my rights,” he said. “In retrospect, I didn’t think that was such a big deal.
“I knew I would have contact with police at some point. Even though it’s my legal right to carry a gun, there’s a lot of propaganda out there, a lot of inaccurate information. When I started to open carry a couple years ago, I would have guessed that 90 out of 100 people didn’t think it was legal.”
So have open-carry advocates latched onto the Tea Party movement? Stilwell said that although he attended with gun in holster, his reason for going was to join others who care about their rights.
“Rights are becoming more prevalent because people feel like their backs are against the wall because of the government,” he says.
Farrell is not a Tea Partyer. He describes himself as libertarian and pro-choice on abortion. He and Stilwell are on the same page when it comes to guns, however.
Like Stilwell, Farrell says he carries his handgun wherever he goes, for self-defense. He says he has never been kicked out of a casino or other place of business but finds himself educating business owners who question why he is so brazenly armed.
Farrell says he has worn his gun many times into his neighborhood restaurant and bar near the U.S. 95-Summerlin Parkway interchange. But as he walks in one recent afternoon, a bartender who spots the gun is taken aback. She says the only pistol-packing customers she has served are undercover cops.
“So what I should have done is asked to see your concealed weapons permit because that is something that’s mandatory,” she tells Farrell.
“I don’t have a concealed gun on me,” he replies. “I do have a concealed-weapons permit but you do not need a concealed-weapons permit for a nonconcealed gun.”
“I mean, a regular permit just to carry the gun around,” she says.
“There is no permit in this state for that,” he tells her.
“It used to be years ago you would have to give your weapons to the bartender,” she says.
“This bar is private property, obviously,” Farrell says. “You can set whatever rules you want.”
“You can pull that out on me and shoot,” she tells him. “You see what I’m saying?”
“Well, of course. And that’s one of the reasons to carry openly, is for self-defense but it’s also to educate others as well that, one, it’s not against the law and, two, that not everyone with a gun is a bad guy. Certainly if there was a bad guy coming to rob you, he wouldn’t let you see the gun until it was too late.”
With that, the bartender goes about her business.
It undoubtedly helps that Farrell is not one of those guys who wears head-to-toe camouflage gear. He wears polo shirts and bluejeans.
He doesn’t have a gun collection. “I have a handgun and a shotgun, that’s all, just to keep me and my wife safe.”
When Farrell read Stilwell’s blog post about how he had been stopped by police, Farrell researched state and local laws, as well as police regulations and then conducted an experiment.
On the night of June 24, he holstered up his loaded 40-caliber Glock 23 pistol and proceeded to a sidewalk on Las Vegas Boulevard, just south of Charleston Boulevard, where he was certain he would be noticed by police. He was.
It wasn’t his first encounter with the law. While vacationing in Nashua, N.H., early last year, he was stopped on foot on the way to a bank by police who asked about his gun. Minutes later he was allowed to go about his business with gun in tow. Such is life in the “live free or die” state, apparently.
The Las Vegas Strip encounter was far more intense, with police arriving in squad cars and on motorcycles in a show of force, guns drawn. Farrell was handcuffed and his gun was confiscated, its bullets removed. Over the course of the next 23 minutes, Farrell invoked his right to talk to an attorney, told police not to touch his gun, and that he hadn’t consented to being searched and detained. He refused to answer questions about whether he possessed a registration card for the weapon, and invoked his right to remain silent.
Bottom line: He hadn’t committed any crime. After police ran a background check on Farrell, confirming his gun was properly registered, and finding that he also has a concealed-weapons permit and is not a dangerous criminal, he was uncuffed. He was handed back his gun but the bullets were dropped down one of his pants pockets and the empty magazine was placed on an irrigation box 100 feet away. He was ordered not to move until police drove away.
“I understand the need for officer safety,” Farrell said. “These guys have a tough job. But officer safety does not trump my rights. To stop me there has to be something other than the fact I have a gun. They shouldn’t have even taken my gun.”
Based on complaints from Farrell, Metro’s Citizen Review Board and internal affairs division each launched investigations into his case last summer. Although the officers involved were cleared of wrongdoing, Metro’s force had to take a refresher course on how to handle individuals who openly carry firearms.
Last month, a five-member panel of the Citizen Review Board found that police had complied with department policy related to the incident but that neither the policy nor police training at the time Farrell was stopped was specific enough on “open carry” stops. The board concluded that the police action was “the result of ambiguity among officers on how to handle an individual asserting his Second Amendment right to openly carry a gun in public.”
While cadets are trained in Metro’s police academy on how to handle constitutional rights, including those involving gun possession, the agency’s thick policy and procedure manual is silent on open-carry issues.
Andrea Beckman, the Citizen Review Board’s executive director, says Farrell’s case “brought to light the significance of how to train police officers on open carry.” Farrell’s case, in fact, was the first open-carry dispute heard by the board, and his name is now familiar throughout Metro.
A little more than a month after “the Farrell incident,” Metro’s 3,000 officers took their refresher course.
“When we don’t respond to something the way we should have, we’re quick to correct ourselves,” Metro Patrol Division Deputy Chief Kathleen O’Connor says.
The review board noted, however, that one police sergeant who confronted Farrell needed more training because it was clear from the sergeant’s testimony that if he had been given a test after the refresher, he would have failed.
The open-carry issue is tricky for police, O’Connor says, because officers are caught between preserving an individual’s open-carry rights and protecting the public from potential harm.
Of course, some police officers are not the only ones uncomfortable with the idea of lots of citizens walking around with guns on their hips. Opponents say the more guns that are being toted around, the greater the possibility that a bystander could be hit by a stray bullet, the more likely it is that a criminal will get a citizen’s gun and use it for no good. Even some Second Amendment advocates acknowledge that an individual who openly wears a gun in a crowded public area might result in the same reaction that a false warning of fire can in a crowded theater.
There are exceptions to Nevada’s open-carry rights. Among them is a state law that prohibits average citizens from carrying firearms on college campuses, at public or private schools and at day care centers without written permission from the heads of those facilities. An individual also cannot legally possess a firearm while intoxicated.
Local laws prohibit possession of guns in Clark County parks or in vehicles within North Las Vegas city limits.
Violation of the North Las Vegas “deadly weapons” ordinance, on the books since 1978, is a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and a $1,000 fine. The ordinance provides exceptions to the weapons ban as it pertains to “ordinary tools or equipment carried in good faith for uses of honest work, trade or business, or for the purpose of legitimate sport or recreation.” The ordinance has only been enforced in conjunction with traffic stops for other violations, such as speeding or suspicion of criminal activity, police say.
It also appears to violate the state law that gives the Legislature, not local governments, the power to regulate firearms, UNLV Boyd School of Law professor Thomas McAffee says.
“The state statute does permit some older local registration requirements, but the city ordinance here is a complete ban on possession in a motor vehicle, which seems to clearly fall within the scope of the state reservation of authority,” McAffee says.
Michael Davidson, North Las Vegas’ chief criminal attorney, said his interpretation is that the ordinance is legal because when the state law was last revised in 2007, the intent was to preserve pre-1989 local gun laws that had nothing to do with firearm registration. He said there have been dozens of cases in recent years where convictions that included violation of that ordinance have been upheld in North Las Vegas Municipal Court without a single appeal of the weapons ban made to District Court in Clark County.
“The intent was to go after gangbangers, not mom and pop in the RV,” Davidson says.
Farrell and other local open-carry advocates counter that North Las Vegas’ law is unconstitutional on its face, no matter the intent.
These advocates staged peaceful protests in North Las Vegas last year — picking up litter “to show we’re just regular guys” — and in January in front of Bally’s on the Strip, where numerous tourists had their pictures taken with Farrell and roughly 20 of his fellow gun-toters.
Farrell had given a Metro watch commander a courtesy heads-up before his armed group headed down to the Strip. The police commander thanked him for the warning, acknowledged the group’s right to assemble, but also pleaded with Farrell to cancel his plans.
The tourists who took pictures, however, encouraged Farrell and his posse to keep standing up for the Constitution, he says, and that’s what he intends to do.
Criminals out there BEWARE , the weak cowards that you are, you better stay clear of us citizens. We are taking back our city, and will take you if you try to bring harm to us or our families. Good going Farrell.
Democrats got creamed in elections the year after they shoved gun regulations down America's throat.
Since then they have been running pretty scared of getting near the issue much at all.
They are probably about to receive a similar lesson after pushing ObamaCare down's America's throat.
Not all Dems/ Liberals are for Gun Control - I happen to be one of the many that are for the Right to Bear Arms!
too many bleeding heart liberals giving 4th and 5th chances to criminals. we need to defend ourselves.
OK answer me this I just returned from Colorado and my father wanted me to take my "old Smith and Wesson 45" back to Nevada. I did not know of this law of North las Vegas is where I live. Drove with the gun in the glove box and the clips in the trunk. how do I get it to the Police Dept to get it Reg,without breaking the law?????
I would trust about .00001 percent of the populace with a gun, honest citizen or not. At least when they're out proving their ineptitude behind the wheel, the car isn't moving at 1200 feet per second and I have an outside chance of getting out of the way.
As a law enforcement officer, I was not thrilled when our state allowed concealed carry permits two decades ago. Since then, I have changed my mind. These are NOT the people you need to worry about, unless you are looking to rob someone, then yeah you should be worried.
Unfortunately, if only the criminals carry firearms, then the general populace is always in danger. Police are too few. I have no problem with citizens being able to protect themselves.
I'm not a huge fan of carrying a gun out in the open. Not a huge fan of carrying it 'cocked and locked',either.
I have no problem with open carry of handguns. My only issue is that the gun owner needs to be capable of preventing a criminal from taking his weapon away from him. Have there been instances of guns being stolen from open-carry gun owners?
Be a good American. Own a gun.
The highest violent crime areas have the strictest gun control laws. Cause or effect?
The assault weapons ban was a joke.
More guns, less crime. The statistics stand on their own merits.
....I have every intention of getting a gun permit to openly carry when I move to Las Vegas.....many years ago when I had just separated from my husband at 3:00 AM in the morning two cars pull up at my home I was there alone...it was my ex husbands brother in law... he was looking for my ex husband and he yelled "dont call the police and come to the door" the men in the cars surrounded my house with guns in their hands...I called my Mom who lived one block away and she called the police and then came running over to my house...when I saw my Mom I opened the door Frank was either drunk or stoned out of his mind...when the Police drove up in front of my house they saw all of the men with guns and said..."this is a family problem we dont want to get involved" and then they drove away and left me and my Mom their alone....the taxes that I pay send their kids to school and they would not protect me...you are dam right ...I will openly carry a gun if the law permits....tired of the Police and their Bull sh-t....I have learned how to protect myself....
Who is uddeboda and why is he talking about penises at 5:04 in the morning.
An armed society is a polite society.
Law abiding citizens have a right to bear arms, so they can protect themselves from criminals.
Sounds right to me, should sound right to you, too.
Vegasbike, guns get taken away from Police Officers. Does that mean they shouldn't be allowed to carry guns?
Everyone should be packing guns, that would be something to see in a common bar room brawl, or a road rage incident on the roads!! LOL!!!! In all seriousness I support a person's right to bear arms, I think wearing your piece in public is a bit flagrant if not inviting trouble. The crooks should get the message though. THEY are the woosies who are afraid to confront an armed citizen.
I cant wait to get my handgun (Own a few rifles)
I had a incident where 2 thugs jumped out of their car ready to kick my a$$ only because I made the same amount of turns and thought I was following them. When I was in my suit just trying to get to work and they happen to go the same route. Im a 5'9 mid built
guy these 2 guys look like they just got out of prison. A hand gun could of saved my life if these 2 thugs wanted to kick my a$$ for no reason.
Sgt.Rock Once again it would be nice if you actually knew what you were talking about. Democrats do not have issues with legal gun ownership and use. They as most intelligent people have issues with automatic guns that fire hundreds of rounds a minute.
You have listened to Fox News,Rush and the right wing nut job media when it comes to health care reform. Maybe you,in your feeble little mind would understand more if you or someone you care about,if that is possible,had been a victim of health insurance companies denying coverage to a insured patient.
Your ridiculous rant about the Swedes is uncalled for and vulgar. You are in need of mental health help,immediately.
"He said there have been dozens of cases in recent years where convictions that included violation of that ordinance have been upheld in North Las Vegas Municipal Court without a single appeal of the weapons ban made to District Court in Clark County"
Well that's why it is being upheld. Someone needs to appeal.
homer....the constitution does not differentiate between assault weapons vs. any other type; just that it's a citizens right to carry arms.
why should we allow any encroachment on our rights? where do we draw the line????
All the corny Dirty Harry and Charles Bronson testosterone-laced comments from many of the usual conservative suspects aside, I'm in favor of the right for citizens (obviously with no priors) to carry a gun. I'm getting my gun and getting training and I'm a "bleeding heart liberal" as some poster here so unimaginatively called me.
Hey sgtrock, it's the SWISS who are required to own a rifle, since they have no standing army and only have a citizens' militia.
Get your facts straight, please!!!
Ughh! People openly carrying firearms in public. Maybe next time I hit up a poker tourney someone wont like that I cracked his pocket aces and we can pace it off and we can have a OK corral type shootout in front of Bally's. To me his stunt on the strip is the same as the muslims praying at the gas station. Sure its your constitutional right, but it sure doesnt make it smart. I cant imagine many people would would feel comfortable waiting in line at 7-11 to pay for a big gulp and have some schmoo standing behind you with a gun in the open. I just want to know if Ferral tied his horse up before he went into that bar.
I can't believe the LV Sun spends time publishing such stupid article about an idiot that thinks that we're still living in the Wild West --hey, maybe we are. So much for civilized society...
Vulcan: It might be safer knowing that "schmoo" is behind you with that OC gun, let alone at a 7-11. He might just be the "schmoo" the thugs saw before they bailed on their plan to rob the place and just saved your a$$ without you knowing about it.
I had to read the article again about the part when he walks into the neighborhood bar and restaurant. I'm pro gun, but even one drink has a imparement factor. I want to be in control at all times and the question would have to be asked: How would police deal with a civilian who carries openly but is under the influence?
Conceal & Carry = prudent protection.
Open Carry = Wannabe tough guy/Bonnie Springs Cowboy.
Easy on the Swedes, eh?
Uddawise, ya might expose yourself as a wee obsessed.
Conceal & Carry; smart, confident.
Open Carry: "look at me! Look at me!"
I wanna be a cowboy, Yippy Yi Yo Yo!
Guns don't kill people....the bullets do!
I have nothing against open carry' But i myself only carry "Concealed" Just go and get your permit it's not that big of a deal. And join the National Rifle Association it dos make a big difference.
Another constitutional issue. The alarming part is the 90% that didn't know it is legal. In California there was a recent dust up over the open carry people meeting at a local Starbucks, some patrons wanted them banned. These same open carry advocates would also meet at the beaches and pick up the trash. Truthfully, I think the open carry advocates are just trying to raise awareness that not everyone that owns a gun has criminal intentions.
Visible sight of weapons could be a deterrent for someone with criminal intentions, but it could also invite unwanted attention. With gun ownership comes responsibility and liability.
I'm all for carrying, but answer me this:
What are these people trying to prove when they got their weapons hanging over their belts in plain view? Is that supposed to intimidate the "bad guys"? - most of which are pretty handy with guns themselves so you better be quicker then they are. Is it an extension of what they think is "their manhood"? (Kind of like driving a HUGE Ford F150) What is the REAL purpose of not concealing the weapon? The guy in the picture must think he looks really "cool" with the weapon showing, even though he probably started to turn blue from trying to suck in that beer belly of his!!
I read somewhere that it was Germans who had the smallest package...whatever. People who are permitted to carry concealed or open are some of the most law abiding citizens around. They are also the most educated about gun safety and know how to use the weapon appropriately. Show me statistics that show these people are a danger to society.
With you @morgen. I'm all for gun rights but I think there's a good chance this guy will get blown away with his own gun because some other idiot wants to "prove" himself. It's like wearing a target on himself. Good Luck.
Det.. lol. I agree with your comments..
"I have no problem with open carry of handguns. My only issue is that the gun owner needs to be capable of preventing a criminal from taking his weapon away from him. Have there been instances of guns being stolen from open-carry gun owners?"
GOod points. Police officers are trained to protect their weapons. Ask athens22 about that. MOST police officers are not thrilled with the general public carrying their own weapons - UNLESS they know how to use it properly - and how many do? Also, police officers must get certified every 6 months to a year on handling their weapons (at least in big city police departments they do). Does the average gun toting citizen do that?
I can't see Joe Beer Belly knowing how to prevent the bad guy from taking his gun and shoving it in his gut and pulling the trigger.
Will open-carry advocates feel different when minorities catch on to this law and also carry guns? Will the police and citizens be comfortable with that even though they are law-abiding citizens? Then, when open-carry is common would it be easy for criminals to also carry openly because with so many people carrying openly it would then be difficult for citizens and the police to know who is and who isn't legal?
Carried to its logical conclusion, this only presents new problems and doesn't make us any safer.
If a criminal sees that you have a gun they will only avoid a confrontation if they can't get the jump on you, but if they really wanted to they could and take your gun away for your troubles.
"I had a incident where 2 thugs jumped out of their car ready to kick my a$$ only because I made the same amount of turns and thought I was following them."
Then you use YOUR CAR as the weapon. You going to drive with a gun in your lap just in case?? If you feel threatened, you hit them with your car.
I respect their right to open carry, but me I would never do it. It makes people uncomfortable and I dont like putting people in that position. But I do not support taking away ones right to bare arms.
"I read somewhere that it was Germans who had the smallest package...whatever"
Gee, from what I heard from "my friends' experiences" - it was always the Republicans!!
The REAL question is why...? Why, even though it's legal, does anybody need to carry their weapon? We are not in the wild west. Do you really want to look like a total a$$hole?
I feel you should be able to carry a side arm.
If you take classes or in the arm forces it should be permited.
You have alot of tugs in las Vegas w\o permits.
As the saying goes in the Army,This is my weapon this is my gun,this is for fighting and this is for fun.
emvance,
I was wondering that same exact thing. If you live in NLV, how do you get your gun to the range to practice? How do you get a gun home after you purchase it? That's puzzling.
As for reasons people might choose to open-carry, for one it does not cost you anything whereas a CCW permit costs $100 with a $65 renewal fee.
While some things are "legal", they are neither prudent, nor wise. . .
The black market for guns will never stop. You get upset when a law abiding citizen carries a weapon? The basic right to defend yourself is the only chance you have when that home invasion rape, robbery, murder occurs. Go ahead and think you are safe, and then think this is about ego and small penises. That demonstrates the narrowness and naievety of your mind. As the economy worsens and yes unlike the liers whom will tell you otherwise, it is going to get worse, more violent crimes will happen. You think gun elimination will happen? I will cite one other illegal activity the government has zero control over, drugs. Guns for crooks will never stop, so the the thought of any gun regulation that eliminates the right to bear arms is stupidity at it's finest those who dilude themselves with penis thoughts, well we know where your mind is.
And if Tim Farrel continues to exploit his legal rights by acting out like a five year old, it won't be long before they change the law, thereby removing rights from other, more intelligent and less arrogant, law-abiding citizens.
I think the police should continue to be suspect of someone with a weapon. And I say kudos for the training they received and to the Review Board on how to deal with open carry situations.
If you open carry, do not expect the police just to drive on by. I think they can still seem to be a bit intimidating on the roads if they wish.
On the other hand, how many times has an officer seen a bad guy with a gun exposed in the first place just waiting to be stopped by police. Crooks are stupid, but...
Raygun opposed open carry in California after Black Panthers marched with guns.
Can I open carry a crossbow if it's strapped to my back?
I've owned guns all my life beginning with the .22 rifle that my father gave me when I was 7yrs old. I'm not afraid of guns and I believe that our right to own and carry guns is protected by the 2nd amendment.
I believe that what these men are doing is foolish and that they are just tempting fate. They may just get themselves shot (possibly with their own gun) or inspire some politicians to introduce legislation to restrict gun rights.
More guns on the street, more people will die
spdjjtt,
The same can be said of automobiles. Should we outlaw cars?
Requiring citizens to pay permit fees to adequately protect themselves with a concealed firearm is not only an infringement upon their constitutional right but an impediment to one's ability to perform responsible self-preservation -- such "permit laws" must be abolished as it should not be "illegal" for one to protect themselves by merely possessing a firearm out of view.
A wiseman once said, "it is better to be judged by twelve than carried by six".
Prediction - firearms as they're known today will "soon" become obsolete due to advancements in technology which will produce a more accurate and lethal manner of killing.
: {
Criss-cross your chest with assault rifles and keep a couple of gloks on yer belt. Grenades too. Let's go have a malt and a cheeseburger on the way to the library, Beaver.
All these guys with small penises pretending they are John Wayne.
What a country.
So what are gun-toting women?
athens22 -
Thank You for your valuable input. Maybe hearing it from a law enforcement officer with direct experience in these matters will help some of these ANTI GUN NUTS begin to realize they don't have a clue concerning right or wrong when it comes to someone legally carrying a weapon. We can only hope that more people to learn from your comment
Stop Gun Control! Defensive uses of firearms by citizens occurred in excess of 2.5 MILLION times per year, a figure far overshadowing criminal uses of guns. North Las Vegas needs to be taken to task for ignoring federal law.
"Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves." - D.H. Lawrence
Um... If this town would actually hire more cops like they promised to, (ahem, Mr Gregory Rose, ex-(fired)-NLV city manager), then people wouldn't feel the need to protect themselves in this manner. -I have purchased 3 hand-guns since I've moved to Vegas. 1 for me, and 2 for my wife, for self-defense and home protection.
yer funny henderson,
"So what are gun-toting women?"
I dunno. The small penis won't fit; we must acquit.
Maybe get a bailout to find a way to attach it somewhere, like next to yer appendix where it's about as needed as a glok for a cruise through the drive-up window.
airweare,
Most of the time I have no idea what you're saying.
KOM674 - "And if Tim Farrel continues to exploit his legal rights by acting out like a five year old, it won't be long before they change the law, thereby removing rights from other, more intelligent and less arrogant, law-abiding citizens."
"they" - Who is "they", those people who you believe can just change the law?
Your statement can be paraphrased by saying "Don't exercise your Constitutional rights or someone will take them away."
From where in the world did this kind of thinking originate? It's ridiculous.
To the jury - fortunately I had my firearm in my pocket at the time otherwise I would likely not be here today to receive my punishment for saving the lives of my family without a CCW?
LOL
: {
KOM674 - since when does openly carrying a weapon constitute "probable cause". while I agree that there is no need to openly carry, it's legal, and to allow the police to pro-actively assert their force against a law abiding citizen without probable cause is wrong.
arbitrary and capricious application of the law (or use of force) by an LEO in this circumstance is wrong and considered to be oppression. worse, what if the openly carrying individual is a person of color (not Caucasian)???? does that create probably cause?
I am all in favor of supporting our LEO's, but at what expense??? do I have to give up "some" of my constitutional rights when they (LEO) "think" I am breaking a law, or may break a law???
where do we draw the line???
It's sad that the anti-rights people here lack the ability, almost completely, to pose a legitimate argument. All I can see here are "small penis" statements and childish insults. In an earlier post, one of you even likened open-carry to slavery? Are you serious?
So I offer this... Any chance that you could provide a valid argument as to why we should be stricken of our rights to carry, open or concealed?
And for the gentleman "Smarterthanyou" who claims to be able to "fight" and doesn't need a gun. I sure would like to see you hold that statement to any amount of truth after having your home broken into in the middle of the night while you're sleeping, and your family.
While I love and welcome a good debate, please folks, offer some points that are viable and rational. If you're going to make insulting childish statements, go post on facebook.
I don't want law enforcement or my general safety left in the hands of the general population, most can't figure out how a turn signal works.
BCDave wrote: "I had to read the article again about the part when he walks into the neighborhood bar and restaurant. I'm pro gun, but even one drink has a imparement factor. I want to be in control at all times and the question would have to be asked: How would police deal with a civilian who carries openly but is under the influence"?
In Nevada, it is legal to be in possession of a gun with a BAC of up to 0.10; go beyond that point and you are in violation of state law.
Regarding the open carry issue, I am in favor of open carry; however, it does put a target on your back if criminals are intent on doing no good. You will be the first one taken out in a robbery or other criminal activity.
As a liberal Democrat, I am part of the crowd that believes the Second Amendment forbids the government from enacting any gun laws. What part of "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" do politicians not understand?
A good friend of mine made a very valid point to me about this very topic one day. Could you honestly tell me, that you believe gun restrictions would quell violent crimes?
The actual truth to that is, that instilling gun restrictions will only serve to take the guns away from law abiding citizens like you and I. Criminals are going to carry regardless of these laws.
Furthermore, I would love to debate the ability of our fine law enforcement officers to protect us from these criminals. You never hear news stories about law enforcement preventing home invasions, rapes, assaults and robberies. You merely here "...Metro is looking for this man..."
The harsh reality is that our police officers will not and cannot be there to protect you from an incident, rather, they will only be there to react once an incident has happened.
Now I ask you, how would you view gun laws preventing you from adequately defending yourself once you've been assaulted or worse?
I want to sling-carry my M1A rifle with its big box magazine. Is that kosher?
look, criminals ARE walking our streets.
this VERY paper at least once a week has a story of someone that kills someone and then we find out that they have a criminal record.
if you don't (or don't WANT) to accept that as fact, then you're kinda stupid, so please don't come back and treat people that want to defend themselves like we're bumpkins.
i have a business,
i have a home,
i have a gun.
What exactly are you going to do when someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night?
You have your children sleeping in their bedrooms scattered throughout your home. I'm just sincerely curious to know exactly how you intend to protect them from an armed intruder if you do not have a gun to defend yourself.
Please can some of you anti-gun people explain this to me?
I have had my home invaded twice many years ago when crime was not as bad, so don't tell me it won't happen to you.
Are you just hoping this doesn't happen? Or have you put a plan in place as to how you would protect your family?
The point is that during a person's lifetime of carrying a sidearm in public, there is FAR more chance that he will get crazy and use it improperly or have it taken from him and shot himself than that he will end up in a situation where he would actually need a gun to defend himself.
can anyone ID that pistol? S&W 1911?
I'm really tired of these "liberals are to blame for criminals getting out easy" contentions. During the GW Bush years, Republicans had TOTAL control of ALL THREE branches of government for SIX CONSECUTIVE YEARS. Where were all of the laws they passed to change that situation? Because the same "liberals are to blame" arguments were being stated well before they had control. Feel free to blame both camps, but at least be honest about it.
I do not understand why anyone would be ok with me being allowed to have a gun hidden in my purse, but be against me having a gun out where they can see it. Out of sight = out of mind?
So these guys carry their guns on their hip.......how is this guy showing his gun going to stop any criminal who has his gun concealed?
By the time this guy gets his gun out of the holster he's probably already taken two hits and is on the floor.
I don't even own a gun, but I bet I could get the drop on these two gun toters before they even knew what hit them......it's not like the criminal is going to holster his gun so they can have a nice even quick draw.
Goingnust: Yes you can as long as you don't have a round in the chamber...my Jewish friend ;)
As far as the guns being pulled out and used on the owner. Most holsters have at least one form of retention to them. Level 1: is just a basic friction type of retention, which most be pulled straight out of the holster. Level 2: like mine, has a button on the side that most be pushed before it can be removed along with the friction. Level 3: has all of that plus a thumb break.
As far as the bar/restaurant. People do go to them to eat. Just because there is a bar doesn't mean you have to drink. Some of them have excellent food.
Yes it is a 1911, I'm not sure what make it is though.
I'm all for carrying guns but those that carry them openly do so to feel empowered and use "defending the constitution" as an excuse.
It's intimidating to those who need not be. It does more harm than good to make the innocent feel threatened by some supposed gun-toting "good guy" who they do not know.
@ Keen_On_Scene: Oh, I don't know, where should we draw the line? And who gets to decide? Let's try this scenario: I am dropping off my 5th grader at school and I notice a man (or a woman), of white, latino, african, asian, middle eastern, etc. descent. I see that they are looking at or away from the school, but they are in close proximity to children in the area. I also take note that they are carrying a firearm.
So, my options must be; A. to respect the rights of this supposed law-abiding citizen, because, you know, everyone must accepted, go ahead and drop my child off and drive my happy ass on to Starbucks; or B. Keep my kid in the car and call police, because, you know, the past speaks volumes to me in regards to guns at schools.
I guess we're just to turn a blind eye, because everyone must be given the benefit of the doubt.
I am a full supporter of MY right to bear arms; it's those with less-than honorable or intelligent intentions that I question. And guess what?? It's my right!
"Your statement can be paraphrased by saying "Don't exercise your Constitutional rights or someone will take them away."
Actually larry5, my statement can be paraphrased to say "Exercise your Constitutional rights with respect and integrity or someone will take them away."
KOM674,
If someone seems suspicious to you, call the police and let them figure it out. Nobody is saying you should ignore a possible threat to the security of your child at school.
Common sense should prevail people. If you're scared call the police.
KOM674 - law abiding citizens are the ones who DO open carry....those who are not law abiding generally hide them (guns).
Again, I'd have NO issue (having lived in LV all my life) dropping one of my kids off at school, knowing that someone has (does) carry openly near schools grounds.
I am pragmatic, not paranoid. I'd feel safer, as with this person out in the community, they have an opportunity to stop crime, or better the criminal activity; as if criminals were to have to think twice because most people actually carried a weapon....there really would be less crime; or at least less criminals in jail.
It's a constitutional right to carry or not to carry. If you feel that this is wrong, please work at having the constitution amended; otherwise, accept the world in which you live, and work best at adapting to affect change in things you do not like.
Good day all !!!
The right to carry a cancealed weapon?
The way i understand cancealed is....
to hide; withdraw or remove from observation; cover or keep from sight:
Maybe am wrong so be it! but for those few that
push the limit of conceal. Maybe ruining my rights or bring unwant attention to my right to carry a cancealed weapon!!! Correct me if i am wrong... Cause the last thing i want is to alarm
the law abiding citizen of my weapon and my rights to carry it
KOM674: Being a cop yourself you know that firearms are not allowed on school grounds. If they are on school grounds, yes call. If not, watch them tell they do, then call. If no laws have been broken why call?
Maybe he/she just dropped there 10 year old.
With people carrying guns for self protection make you feel less needed?
"arbitrary and capricious application of the law (or use of force) by an LEO in this circumstance is wrong and considered to be oppression. worse, what if the openly carrying individual is a person of color (not Caucasian)???? does that create probably cause?"
This is neither arbitrary nor capricious. A rule is arbitrary if it is not supported by logic or the necessary facts; a rule is capricious if it is adopted without thought or reason or is irrational. Nothing irrational about believing that a person carrying a weapon on the Las Vegas Strip is either unstable, about to commit a violent crime, or a foreign or domestic terrorist.
Dipstick: I guess your right. Didn't 3 die in the last year while driving and over 80 shots to take down one suspect?
If you're going to comment on my comments, at least read the comments I was commenting on. Also, not a cop, but a cops wife. It's funny though, that you thought I was. Because see, you thought you knew, but you didn't. And you were wrong. : )
stevem, "internet Tough Guy"!
I knew enough to know that when I see a KOM 674 licence plate frame to know that the vehicle belongs to a cop or is related to a cop(cops wife). That way if they get pulled over. They can get the "good ol' boy" treatment and let go with a "warning" if they even get pulled over at all.
And your scenario was pretty vague.
The trend here is that the folks with no Open Carry experiance, want to make factual statements about those of us with Open carry experience, and furthermore tell all about our reasoning.
for the concealed guys, you are right, it makes no sense to jam a locked and loaded Glock down your pants. Which is why we use a practical OWB retainment holster.
Speaking of a gun in your pants, how is that comfort level treating you? When you bend to sit does your conceal piece bend with you?
I have been to many gun shops and seen all the bad a$$es with attitudes, and the ego's etc. yet have yet to witness any of that when out with the Open Carry folks. (refreshing)
For the anti gun folks, your main experience with firearms is the late night news, and not so pretty. Yet every day there are law abiding citizens carrying a gun in the store with you etc. You just don't know about it, or you might have a different impression. The reason people Open Carry is to excercise the right. We are all on here excercising our first amendment right, any one feel the need to go down and apply for a comment permit? Then be forced to keep your comment under your shirt untill it is needed? Thought so.
KOM674 - you are correct, it's not capricious, it's PARANOID.
again, maybe it was growing up in the "wild west" as some call it, but I see no issue when a citizen abides by law by asserting their rights.
I guess some LEO's are so jaded that maybe it's time for them to hang up their badges???? I am pro-police, but I am MORE pro-Constitution.
no officer shall stop and question me without probably cause (also Constitutional under the 4th Amendment). just because a person belief's such, does not make it such, straw-man?
so if it walks like a duck???? sorry, I choose NOT to live in your world where everyone is considered guilty until proven innocent; yet you want your paranoia to infringe on my constitutional rights? I don't think so, maybe you need to go live in a lovely city like Philadelphia (where I am from), where it's illegal to have a firearm on your person without a CCW. I am sure you will "feel" much safer there.
Yeah, I didn't think anyone could explain it.
I'm still trying to figure out how anyone protects their family from an intruder in the middle of the night without a gun.
There is pros and cons to people excersizing their right to openly bare arms.
In todays society and espcially with all the cuts in budget on local law enforcement.This has made it easier for the criminal element to pray on their victims.
I have noticed the amount of murders in this city are either gaining more publicity or are up.I am split on weather or not it is a good thing to have people openly carrying firearms or if it is a bad thing.
My Con on this is what if the gun toter accidently discharged his weapon with no intent of harm but wounded or fatally wounded a person in public.
My pro is that anyone with a criminal intent would be leary of committing a crime with a gun toter right their in the area.Which in respect would help deter a criminal from committing a crime.
I do know that when my wife goes for her daily walk for excersize I am worried for her safety.Their is no true safe place in this City anymore.If a criminal wants to commit a crime they are going to do it.No matter where they are.Now if my wife was openly totetng a gun they may move on.
So my question is good or bad?
The probabilty of a gun toter accidently discharging his weapon is slim to none but there is always that chance.Most gun toters would probably never pull the weapon out of its holster unless there was a threat.
My views are that it can be a good thing to have people openly toting guns.I know when I am in the public and there is a law enforcement officer close by I always feel safer but these days how many times do we see police walking the streets in high public areas oh they are in their squad cars yes but to respond to a crime in progress in their squad cars is time consuming especially on the strip.Yes they have officers on bicycles and that helps but not enough.
Downtown on Freemont street they have security roaming around on those little two wheel transport carts and I feel safer down there because of that.
once you venture off Freemont Street then that is another ball game.
We need more law enforcement that is for sure.For the purpose of protecion not harrasment though.It seems to me that we are in a day of self defense and I believe that you should have people toteting guns.
Personally I do not tote a gun but I do carry a spray called halt and so does my wife.Halt Is not pepper spray it is actually some sort of herbal spray or berry juices that only lasts a few minutes and easily washes off.
Rodtig,
I'm a gun owner that also carries pepper spray. About 2 years ago I was walking my dog when a pitbull got out of his yard and started to attack. I sprayed him once, square in the eyes & nose...he came back at me. Sprayed him again square in the face....he looped around and came at me AGAIN! By the time this was over I unloaded all of my spray on this dog to stop him.
Just a word of caution....If I were you I would get real pepper spray. I don't think your berry juice would have stopped this vicious dog.
jbonello: Actually you shouldn't keep it in your purse. Your purse can get snatched with your gun in it. You should keep it on your person. And if openly, along with good situational awareness, I highly doubt your purse will be snatched.
Henderson: They don't. They end up on the news, as well as the morgue.
Just a few thoughts on the opportunity for assualt that displaying a gun on your person brings.
If you were walking in Las Vegas WITHOUT a gun, and pulled out a wad of cash, some crook might see you and - eventually - take it away from you. Your unaware actions have put you at risk.
In the same scenario, if you HAVE A GUN with you - hidden or not- but you are not a very big person, a crook who is bigger than you - and more desparate - might try to take the gun AND your money away from you.
This time, you are at risk because you were flashing cash, and you were not big enough, or know how to stop the theft of your firearm (which you were carrying for protection).
Bottom line: OPPORTUNITY is what permits crime. If you do things to make criminals aware of things you have that they might want - like a gun you are carrying which they can see, or flashing cash (even in a casino or grocery store) - they will do anything to get what they want from you.
That is what criminals do for a living.
You need to be aware of your surroundings, as well as not making yourself a target - and you become a target by carring a gun in OPEN VIEW.
A CONCEALED firearm would be a better option.
You get firearms qualification training with the cost of your license, and you will (hopefully) be familiar with the handgun enough to know how to use it - if you you have to.
Still, avoiding becoming an "opportunity" waiting to happen, is the best course of action.
And if anyone thinks a criminal can't take a gun away from you, you must be pretty agile, strong, have extraordinary presence of mind, and be able to FIGHT as good as a US Marine. All of which I doubt the average person has.
So, just get the carry license and forget the cost. Keep it loaded, but (if a magazine type) no round in the chamber. Stay alert, and be responsible.
And go shooting at a range a few times so if you have to fire the gun, it won't scare the heck out of you - or hurt you.
In one way I'm all for guns rights and no one should be able to change that and i think its great to be able to open carry....but then ......i think about all the cowards that have to cary a gun to feel powerful becuase deep down they are weak ,.....and I think again most guys I know that brag about there guns are welll scared rabbits that should not have a gun
The-socratic inkwell,
I'm sorry but I have to correct you.
You DO NOT get firearms qualification training with the cost of your license. They are two seperate things.
I paid for and completed an approved firearms course in Clark County where the instructor qualified me with my weapon.
Then I applied for my concealed firearms permit with the LVMPD where the fee is $100 new/ $65 Renewal.
@The-Socratic-Inkwell: Well said.
From reading the comments here it appears that democrats should have the right to carry concealed and exposed weapons but that we need a litmus test to discern the difference between conservatives and republicans. Once you figure that out you can allow the conservatives the same rights as democrats.
Never trust a republican with a gun. The IQ levels are, as a group, too dangerous to put live rounds in their hands.
Rocco,
You are exactly right. I have to carry a gun to feel powerful because I'm just a tiny little woman and could never outpower a man. Maybe I could outrun a man, most certainly I can outsmart a man, but I'm pretty sure I can outshoot a man any day of the week.
Jeff....thanks so much for dumbing this whole thing down. :rolleyes:
what color is the sky in your world.
how about you refrain from posting nonsense here, and try to keep the discussion constructive and on-topic, not attempt to sway or troll people into responding contrary to your beliefs.
Thanks
jeff,
10,000 tea party members, many with guns strapped to their hips and not a single incident occurred.
35 Harry Reid supporters show up throwing eggs at the passing buses and behaving violently while being videotaped..
I think you should re-calculate those IQ levels, starting with your own.
Hello Americans :-}
Can anyone tell me how I can get my Rights back?
I'm a convicted Felon from 25 years ago, "WEED" related.
I currently live in Washington State with the Felony Conviction from California 1984
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I want my right to own. I see nothing in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that say a Felon is not allowed his or her rights just because of a Felony conviction?
Thanks All, and keep fighting for your rights!!
Magoo
Even though he had thorough training both in the Marines and the LAPD academy, my former partner had his gun taken away when trying to arrest two suspects... He was lucky they did not shoot him with it! On the other hand, I was caught by two armed suspects at a time when I was unarmed and was able to quickly take the weapon away from one and arrest them both.
In that light, I often wonder about the success of the average citizen carrying a gun in public for self defense. I think they should have the right to carry a weapon, but I also think that when they carry any weapon out in the open that they are doing several things:
1. Providing a criminal with an opportunity to take it from them and use it against them. The average citizen just does not have the level of awareness and training to properly defend themselves in such a surprise situation, and
2. Provoking individuals they may encounter who may be mentally unstable, intoxicated, or under the influence and perceive their carrying of the weapon as a threat.
3. Placing themselves in danger should they happen upon a crime being committed and the criminals mistake them for police officers.
To that end, I think that citizens should get CWP's and keep their weapon concealed at all times unless absolutely needed. I don't really see open carrying as a deterrent. If I was a criminal and saw you carrying a gun and wanted to rob you I would just shoot you in the back and take your wallet and your gun!
What I was concerned about most in the article is the guy carrying his weapon into a bar. Guns and Alcohol, like Driving and alcohol, are a recipe for potential disaster! I would not advise any Citizen to carry a firearm into a bar if they are going to drink. If they shoot someone, they will probably go to jail.
There is also a big difference between defending oneself in one's home when you cannot escape your attacker versus engaging someone in public where innocent people may be harmed or killed.
rabmag,
So say you are in public, at a restaurant. You leave your gun in the car because you don't want to be giving any criminals bad ideas, you want to be a peaceful diner.
Say some psycho walks in and shoots up the entire building. Everyone is hiding under tables, people are crying. 23 people people are already dead now, another 20 are shot and bleeding to death.
Don't you think if you had your gun on your person you might have been able to do something before 43 people were shot in public?
This is exactly what happened on October 16th 1991 at Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, TX.
Suzanna Gratia Hupp had actually brought a handgun to the Luby's Cafeteria that day but had left it in her vehicle because laws in force at the time forbade citizens from carrying firearms.
Moral of the story - If you outlaw the ability to carry guns, only the bad guys will have them!
That rabmag, gotta say, very good post...
a lot of common sense in there.
http://reason.com/archives/2010/03/03/ca...
"Last summer, Tom Palmer, one of the original plaintiffs in the D.C. gun ban case, filed a federal lawsuit that challenges the District's prohibition on carrying guns in public. Palmer, a scholar at the Cato Institute, knows from personal experience that such restrictions can be deadly: He vividly recalls how brandishing a handgun on a Northern California street saved him from a group of thugs who shouted anti-gay slurs and threats at him on a summer night in 1982."
PS, cops carry guns into bars too. If they can be responsible, why can't normal citizens (who actually go to jail for shooting people) http://reason.com/archives/2010/04/05/th... see also, the David Masters shooting in Virginia.
Try picturing Pat packin' a pistol in public...
pretty preposterous!
Hi Henderson!
I guess you did not comprehend my post. I only said you should not to bring your gun into a bar IF you are going to drink. Do you really think after a couple of rounds you have enough sense to act responsibly with a firearm or drive a vehicle?
I guess we will reading and posting about you on here someday, how you shot some a-hole because he picked a fight with you in the bar and you used poor judgment, or maybe how you got shot with your own weapon because you lacked the speed, coordination or reflexes to properly defend yourself.
So, I will say it one more time. Every citizen that has a gun should get a CWP and keep their weapon concealed until needed. And they should not carry one if they are or will be impaired by alcohol or any other substance.
Make sense?
Why all the fuss about someone choosing to exercise their rights under the Constitution? If you have an issue with this, bring it up with your elected representative.
Let's play a little game here... All those folks arguing to deny someone their rights under the Constitution, do a web search for all the crimes where someone was killed, wounded, raped, etc., by the perpetrator. Then to compare, search for instances where someone legally carrying openly "accidentally" discharged their weapon and hurt someone, and then perform another search to find the number of times an armed, law abiding citizen saved someone's life or prevented a crime from either happening or ending the situation before it got worse.. Let me know how you do with the results of your search...
Oh and you folks that use name calling, profanity or saying "but, but, "W" did it!", please try to stay on topic...
Magoo: You can get that sealed or expunge from your record and get your rights back. It will run you around $1,000.
And for those that don't think it will deter crime.
http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atlanta-G...
Patrick_R_Gibbons - The answer to your question lies in the typical inability of human beings to act in a common sense and reasonable manner when under the influence of almost any amount of alcohol.
Bars serve liquor, and it is consumed, not as a beverage to quench the thirst - but for its more brain-numbing attributes that allow one to escape the realities of one's personal situation for a while, or to calm the savage beast within - or even because the person is (excuse me) pissed off.
Therefore, if a gun is on the person of someone drinking alcohol in a bar, and an occasion arises where anger, resentment, etc., are in motion - the opportunity to use your gun to lash out at someone else presents an unbridled and deadly opportunity for you to augment your anger in an even more distructive manner than you might otherwise (without the gun) be inclined, or capable, to exhibit.
Realizing my somewhat poetic license in describing the above scenario - IN PLAIN ENGLISH - if you you get mad enough at someone who has offended you, and tell them: "I will kill you" - if you have a gun with you, your bravado will rise - AND YOU MIGHT JUST DO IT!... on purpose, or as a "knee-jerk" reaction to gain the upper hand.
That is probably the best reason for keeping guns out of bars, or other such places.
.I believe law abiding people have the right to bear arms to defend family and property also.But carrying arms like Dodge City may get you into more trouble than what it will get you out of.
I have known many people who own and carry guns over the years.
The gentleman chosen for this article was certainly not the best example of citizens owning guns or at least not how this is written. Having a gun with a clip and having a bullet in the chamber is in my humble opinion not the wisest course of action. That said I am in favor of people owning guns, and carrying them. I am far more likely to be intimidated or concerned for my safety seeing someone with a concealed or partially concealed weapon than someone openly carrying.
Of those individuals I have known who had permits to carry concealed, to be honest most of them were some of the most paranoid and disturbed people I have ever met. The way they talk about "what they would do" in any given conflict was troublesome and disturbing. The idea they were running around with loaded weapons is not something that made me rest well at night.
A rare few with permits to carry concealed were very responsible low key individuals, they however were the exception not the rule.
Interestingly enough ALL the people I personally have known or currently know who carried openly were well balanced, level headed people not looking for conflicts. They have a healthy respect for what a weapon will do, a realistic view of the risks they take owning a gun and would rather they never have to discharge their weapon. They work in high-risk jobs dealing with large sums of money and a wide variety of people on a daily basis. The guns they wear are tools, they do act as a deterrent, for hardened criminals probably not, but what does?
In my opinion guns are like locks on your door or vehicle not going to detour anyone determined to do wrong, but they can and do keep mostly honest people honest.
I have never understood concealed weapons especially for woman. I have always had the mental image in my head of a lady standing there going "Excuse me mister, I will give you my purse in a second anything you want out of it I just need one little thing"damn it where did I put it, I know it is in here somewhere. Just one more minute please I am so sorry I lost my gun. I know I put it in my purse please wait a second while I find it just hold on please, I know it is here somewhere""
It is better if one is going to carry a gun to have it readily accessible
If you are going to own a gun please be familiar with it, and know how to use it safely and with skill.
DO NOT own a gun if you are not going to keep it secure or if heaven forbid you are too scared of the world, the weapon, and your own shadow to be able to use it if needed. If you are that afraid you have no business owning any weapon.
If you are not capable of ending a life or harming another for the love of god buy pepper spray.
Guns are tools they were created to end a life be it animal or human. They are not for settling arguments, getting your way, intimidating anyone or scaring away bad guys.
It seems to me it is when things in our society are hidden or outlawed they become more of an issue for abuse not the reverse. Perhaps what is needed is more people openly carrying guns not less?
Keene on Scene:
The whole thread is nonsense. It is time and place. You lunkheads who think strapping a pistol to your belt will make you Superman may have a semi-truck waiting to flatten you, and the people who abhor guns may wish they had one when it is too late. Every situation is different. And trust me, you are not in control.
Bottom line, most of you are only brandishing your weapons like this because Obama is a black man and many of you are on your way to becoming minorities. You wanna show you are not scared of the big black wolf.
Your tone was the typical self righteousness of the gun crowd.
Walk quietly and bring a big stick is the right way, not your pointless posturing.
and Henderson:
There are 10x the irresponsibility on the teabaggers than there ever will be on the Harry Reid side.
Rabmag wrote:
.......So, I will say it one more time. Every citizen that has a gun should get a CWP and keep their weapon concealed until needed...........
weezy wrote:
So should everyone drive the same car as you? Own the same dog?
Have you thought out what you would do to protect your family if your CWP or CCW in NV was revoked on a technicality, or a mistake like the people that have been put on the no fly list accidentaly? or the Govt decided down the road that they shouldn't honor your "right" through your license? Would you turn in your rights and still feel thew same way about unlicensed (not asking permission) open carry? many souls have sacrificed for this and other rights. I wouldn't dishonor them by open carrying for pride or other superficial reasons, those soldiers died and gave for all the rights, and the dishonor comes in giving them up.
Inkwell: I don't drink but my wife does. The bars in the valley have some of the best food. But with your reasoning I shouldn't be allowed to go out to lunch with my wife.
Yes it is the wild west. With unemployment at nearly 14% sh!t is getting crazy. I constantly see home invasions, robberies, and assaults on the news almost on a daily basis.I take mine and my family's safety very seriously.
When seconds count, the police are only seconds away.
And I do have a CCW. But lets see you try and conceal a full size pistol while wearing shorts and a white t-shirt. It's possible, but I "print" real bad. Plus it's a lot more comfortable to just open carry.
JeffFromVegas
Sorry but who is the president, and what political party is in control or my minority status has nothing to do with my views on owning guns. I have no fear of how did you put it "The Big Black Wolf".
Criminals and the socially unacceptable come in all colors, races, genders, political parties, and religions, always have always will, assuming everyone is white and afraid of "minorities" is just you showing your prejudice.
I proudly carry my weapon on me at all times,I have a CCW , so I carry it open and concealed depending on the circumstances. Just take a look at what this valley is turning into and you can't help but carry a weapon for self defense. Its too bad we live in times when people can't stop and think before they call the police, if I was intending to do harm why would I show my side arm in a holster for everyone to see.
I'm sorry but I'm not leaving my chamber empty. Let's see you try and rack a slide with only one hand. If something bad happens and your left without the use of a arm, it is very difficult to rack the slide one handed.
Guns just don't go bang till you draw it and pull the trigger. And if I ever have to draw mine. When I pull the trigger I want it to go bang. And not have to rack the slide first.
If anybody wants to learn more about open carrying a firearm. They should check out opencarry.org. And if you want to take it further. I welcome you to come down and join us on the strip this sat.
The only people who should own/carry guns are government/state agents who need them for their jobs, licensed hunters, and or police officers.. No one else NEEDS them. If someone commits a crime with a gun they know who to go after right away cause no one else will have them. Crime would go way down. Wake up Nevadans! In my day everyone needed guns for protection.
"He says he has never been kicked out of a casino or other place of business" - Try that sh*t on the strip - While working FD at a strip joint (higher end) I watched first hand security escort a guy out during the gun show (forget the name) with a gun on his side walking thru the lobby...
VegasGM85
Yes, but why was the guy escorted out of the gun show? Was it because he was wearing a gun or because he was behaving inproperly?
Still it was not this gentleman unless you have proof otherwise that this man has been kicked out of a casino or other establishment because he was openly carrying a gun your comment is irrelevent.
My biggest concern about open carry is the people should be using retention holsters like the police do. What do you say Dave, are you willing to invest in a proper holster?
As far as open carry, I don't do it around town. I don't want the attention.
Metro is lucky they didn't get a false arrest civil rights lawsuit when they illegally arrested Farrell. He could easily sue them in Federal court and win.
"the only people who should own/carry guns are government/state agents" - I think you just missed the entire point of the second amendment.
To those who are against carrying guns, can you honestly say that you know it makes the general populous any less safe, and not the opposite? And I don't mean hypothetical situations, I mean actually facts.
http://www.gunfacts.info/
And to those who support CC but not OC, what difference does a shirt make, a shred of cloth? Do we fear police officers? Security Guards? Why citizens who clearly have nothing to hide?
And for all those throwing out the stereotypes, know that that is not the case. I myself am a Mexican-American, and I Open Carry. The gentleman who wore an AR-15 to that Obama rally was African-American. Women carry too, open or concealed. Stop trying to slap the smallpenis/racist/redneck/coward card because you can't come up with a legitimate reason why you feel that you can't trust someone without a badge.
"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. The church, the plow, the prarie wagon, and citizen's firearms are indelibly related. From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable. Every corner of this land knows firearms, and more than 99 99/100 percent of them by their silence indicate they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference; they deserve a place with all that's good. When firearms, go all goes; we need them every hour."
: {
What a great article.
Well researched, balanced and factually correct.
This kind of journalism is all but dead. Excellent article Steve Kanigher, your a real credit to your profession.
Well done Sir, well done!
JeffFromVegas posted "Bottom line, most of you are only brandishing your weapons like this because Obama is a black man and many of you are on your way to becoming minorities.
Nice job pulling the race card Jeff. Next time, why don't you try to stay on topic and address the issue.
Jeff went on further in his clueless rant "There are 10x the irresponsibility on the teabaggers than there ever will be on the Harry Reid side."
Care to back that up with some facts Jeff? Or is that just part of your deflection filled, racist post? Also, please refrain from using sexual innuendos. Those folks are Tea Party members.
Racist comments and name calling really detract from your post and make you a lot less believable. Is that what you were trying to achieve?
ok since this site limits me to 3000 characters. I posted my response to all of you in the rants and raves on craigslist.
which can be found here:
http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/rnr/16817...
It's sad to see so many ignorant individuals place the blame for gun control law trend that was started after the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan on Democrats. The GOP led the charge all the way headed by Alexander Brady's wife. LOL I guess when you have no original thought, you blame the other guy ? What a joke !
"The intent was to go after gangbangers, not mom and pop in the RV," Davidson says.
Sounds like Davidson never heard of the sixth amendment.
I don't carry a gun to kill people.
I carry a gun to keep from being killed.
I don't carry a gun to scare people.
I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place.
I don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid.
I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world.
I don't carry a gun because I'm evil.
I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the world.
I don't carry a gun because I hate the government.
I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.
I don't carry a gun because I'm angry.
I carry a gun so that I don't have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.
I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone.
I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.
I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man.
I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.
I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate.
I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.
I don't carry a gun because I love it..
I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me." Police Protection" is an oxymoron. Free citizens must protect themselves. Police do not protect you from crime; they investigate the crime after it happens and then try to clean up the mess.
Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'."..
sdcharger: If your talking about Dave from the article, yes he is using a retention holster. It's a Serpa level 2. I know, I have one just like it. Tim F. also has one. What they don't mention in the article is that the cops couldn't get it out. Not till a plain clothes cop came along and showed them how to remove it from the holster where they able to get it out. Illegally I might add.
I do believe the Second Amendment is pretty clear about the whole "shall not be infringed" thing. I also believe that amendments could be passed qualifying or completely removing the second amendment. Just because it's part of the Bill of Rights doesn't make the Second Amendment any less open to repeal than, say, the Eighteenth Amendment.
I don't feel any safer nor do I feel less safe around people who open carry, conceal carry with a permit or who conceal carry without a permit. Guns are all over. If it's your time it's your time. Having a gun is not a panacea that protects you from any and all crimes violent or otherwise. Sometimes it might, but it does not make you invincible... though it may, like alcohol, give you that feeling.
If you open carry, I can see why a cop would want to stop you and ask what you're doing. And, yes, during the course of that stop you will be disarmed for "officer safety." There seems to be something of a logical conclusion that a person with a firearm in public might be interested in using that firearm on the public and should be questioned--not arrested, not harassed, not interrogated (not that a certain percentage of cops understand such distinctions), but questioned.
The law says that you can open carry and there are ways you can carry concealed. So long as that remains the case, I have no objections as long as you learn how to use your weapon not only under the relaxed conditions of the range, but under duress, too.
A test: Next time you're at the range, after you set up your target but before you fire a single shot, do 50 pushups (or whatever number you need to get your heart pumping) and then, starting with your weapon holstered or slung over your back/shoulder, as quickly as possible bring the weapon on target and put three rounds down range to see how well you do. If your score is 24 or higher, then by all means carry that gun around. You just might be able to actually protect someone with it, maybe me.
But if you're all over the place or send a flier out of the rings, do everyone a favor and keep the gun at home until you learn how to use it.
Also, just a reminder that even people who know how to use guns can still have accidents with them...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxWWJaTEd...
Rusty,
People who know how to drive cars still have accidents all the time, what's your point? Follow the four firearms rules and you will NEVER have an accident.
Look at this guy - sucking his gut in and trying to look cool. Perfect portrayal of the open carry enthusiast.
But still it is their right - but I think in places where alcohol is served it should be illegal to bring in a gun. You can't drink and drive. You should not be able to drink and carry a gun around.
If you owned or worked in a bar would you want your customers to be armed?
A gun is nothing but a tool, just like a hammer or a phone.
Just today I saw a guy waving his gun at a lady in a car that cut him off on the I-515.
I took his license and called the police, I left a message and no-one called back. oh well
Open carry says a lot. It says hey, I am armed and ready. Criminals usually look to take advantage of the weak and undefended. They themselves do not want any trouble and want an easy score. People who carry are more in tuned to what is going on around them, the last thing they want to do is use deadly force. Using deadly force comes with a lot of legal problems after a live round has been fired in public. Now the question becomes, was it a justifiable use of deadly force. I think there is a saying, I would rather be tried by 8 than carried by six. Aside from being our right as citizens, I think that less crime would occur if criminals knew that they were up against an armed opponent. And all of the talk about a criminal taking the weapon away is just fear. They would rather pass and look for an easier target. Like someone without a gun...
The criminals upgrade to biggers weapons.. hence the need for the pro gun people to upgrade yo bigger & more powerful.
If the weapon was eliminated.. there would be no weapons for the bad guy, hence no need for the average citizen to carry weapons.
VegasSmitty :
RIGHT ON!!!!
To BOFTX....get a brain. If a GUN was a hammer or a phone wear one!! How do you compare those to a gun ? Gun control is the best thing this country could have.We need to get in step with the rest of the world.
@ JefffromVegas - did you actually READ anything I posted???
why do you go off topic, play the race card, and interject your blatantly far left love???
I don't open carry, nor do I want to, but it's legal....no knuckle-headed tone there.
My views regarding this are far more LIBERAL as it's all based upon our constitutional right, and I will fight to the death to protect this, as should you.
As others have said, if you are unhappy, contact your elected official and get an amendment to the constitution passed.
it really is THAT simple.
Good way to attract tourists.
Jeff, please defend your logic regarding this comment:
"There are 10x the irresponsibility on the teabaggers than there ever will be on the Harry Reid side."
Considering that 10,000 tea party members, many with guns strapped to their hips gathered peacefully and not a single incident occurred.
35 Harry Reid supporters show up throwing eggs at the passing buses and behaving violently while being videotaped..
Where do you get your stats?
I open-carry because it's nearly impossible to carry concealed in So. Nev. in the summertime; I am not a Walter Mitty cowboy or a show-off, nor am I making a statement. I had one of the crazy people pull a knife on me because I wouldn't "give him a dollar", and I refuse to be at the mercy of a bad guy in a 7-11. Want to stop all the nervousness? Get a security guard's badge from Hahn's Surplus in NLV, and wear it on your belt next to your holster --- stops the public's fear.
Keen_On_Scene:
why do you go off topic, play the race card, and interject your blatantly far left love???
__
If you can't stand the truth, get out of the kitchen
--
I don't open carry, nor do I want to, but it's legal....no knuckle-headed tone there.
__
Never commented, nor thought about your personal life. Yeah, your tone, even here is pretty annoying
--
My views regarding this are far more LIBERAL as it's all based upon our constitutional right, and I will fight to the death to protect this, as should you.
__
My thoughts are that the second amendment is the most important part of the constitution, it allows me protection against republican idiots who have the intelligence of my sofa.
--
As others have said, if you are unhappy, contact your elected official and get an amendment to the constitution passed.
__
I am in contact with my elected reps more than anyone I know. They are all impressive in some ways, especially John Ensign. That said I expect him to resign immediately. The 96K is a sin.
--
it really is THAT simple.
__
There is nothing that simple. Trying to get all children proper medical care in the USA has brought us to the point of abject hatred by one of the parties. All of this nonsense had been brought about by the the republican extremists. They need to be sent packing.
__
@Serpent: " if the weapons were eliminated, there would be no weapons for the bad guy". Are you serious? You honestly think weapons couldn't and wouldn't be the next hot item to get smuggled into this country, and the bad guys armed and us defenseless? The drug laws have been so effective --- we don't have a drug problem anymore, do we? Nevadans have always had a casual and comfortable relationship with guns --- we used to go target shooting at Lone Mountain, but now with so many people coming here from places that don't have guns, and don't approve of guns, we have to justify and defend our gun ownership. Funny thing is, most of the gun detractors are from places where they should have had a gun. Thousands of Southern Nevadans are carrying permitted concealed weapons around you every day; have you heard of one bad incident?
And for the poster who mentioned road rage --- I'm not willing to sit there defenseless while some wound-up nutcase comes at me with a weapon.
I open-carry because it's nearly impossible to carry concealed in So. Nev. in the summertime; I "Get a security guard's badge from Hahn's Surplus in NLV, and wear it on your belt next to your holster --- stops the public's fear."
A Security Company of One!
WHOOT!
"I knew enough to know that when I see a KOM 674 licence plate frame to know that the vehicle belongs to a cop or is related to a cop(cops wife). That way if they get pulled over. They can get the "good ol' boy" treatment and let go with a "warning" if they even get pulled over at all."
How does "KOM 674" tell you it is a cop or a relation of a cop?
I'm an Ex of a 34 year cop and still have an FOP license plate holder and FOP stickers on my windshield. I have never been pulled over sp I am not familiar with that "good ole boy" treatment and even if I was - I would expect to be treated like anyone else who allegedly has broken the law. The ex was pulled over couple of times in NLV and never got the "good ole boy" treatment.
I "Get a security guard's badge from Hahn's Surplus in NLV, and wear it on your belt next to your holster --- stops the public's fear."
Well, that's really smart. Impersonating a "security guard" so people aren't afraid. People aren't stupid either. Most security guards are unarmed and security guards that do carry weapons don't feel the need to show off their weapons when not in uniform. Just as off duty cops don't walk around with a weapon showing - but there is always one hidden.
That's the difference between the pros and the amateurs:
The pros don't need to show,
The amateurs feel they have to.
Why do we keep going on and on and on about a law that was written over 300 years ago? I own 2 rifles, a shotgun, and a handgun, but I don't think I have the right to just carry them around with me where ever I go. The intention of the 2nd amendment was to give the right to non-military civilians to take up arms to defend their country and their land during a time of war. It was not written to allow some ignorant hill billy redneck to carry his gun around and endanger the lives of all the people around him. The extremist group called the NRA has brain washed these people into believing that the constitution gives them the right to do whatever they want with their weapons. Before you start defending the constitution, maybe you should actually read it so that you know what the hell you are talking about.
You are free to strap on a hog leg in public, but you are not completely free to have consensual sex with another adult in private. If it involves money, that is illegal. Ridiculous.
Thanks lvbuilder. Great post.
(I love it when people bite their own tail)
You say that we should read the US Constitution so that we know what we're talking about when we discuss what you call "a law that was written over 300 years ago".
Apparently it's you that needs a quick refresher on the Constitution. It was written in 1787 which was 222 years ago (It will be 223 on September 17th) and the last time I checked 222 is a lot less than 300.
As for what it says, that's pretty clear "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Your claims about "...defend their country and their land during a time of war" are incorrect. The US Supreme Court confirmed in District of Columbia v. Heller that "The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home". You will, of course, note that self defense in public is also a "traditionally lawful purpose".
So lvbuilder, this ends today's Constitutional Law lesson and now perhaps you too can know what you are talking about.
If it is such a good idea to carry a weapon, try walking into a police station carrying one. Or even better, take a walk on the sidewalk in front of the Federal Building and see what happens.
FRM-
I have dumb-ass....how do you think you get them registered?
a few comments
If guns kill people, then spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat.
If you ban guns then only criminals will have guns. If you need examples look at places where citizen owned guns are banned like Mexico, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Columbia, you could probably find about 100 more if you look.
The Japanese government openly admitted that they decided not to invade the US in the 1940's because they knew that ordinary US citizens at the time were well armed, thus knowing they would be out-gunned. Thank God and the US Military and armed citizens that you are not speaking Japanese as a result. But maybe you will prefer speaking Arabic or some other middle eastern language in the near future.
Statistical fact....crime rates ARE lower, usually much lower, in areas where ordinary citizens are allowed to carry guns. Violent criminals are much more likely to think twice about committing an offense if they are likely to get shot at in the commission of an offense. I know this first hand as I have worked in a penetentiary where I interviewed and spoke to many convicts of this same subject. Simply put, if they know a woman or a mark was carrying a gun, they would find another victim.
Last of all, suppose criminals didn't even have guns, and they used knives instead to stab all victims.....what will you do then? Ban steak knives? Ban baseball bats? Ban whatever choice of weapon they pick up next? Hey thousands are killed by car accidents every year, let's ban automobiles too!
Have a nice day, God Bless those who stand up for our rights to protect ourselves.
I live in Arizona and we have had open carry as long as we have been a state. Average citizens, as well as police off duty, open carry regularly. We don't have shootouts at every stoplight. Constitutional carry (concealed carry without a permit) is up for final vote in the house, having already been passed in the Senate. The Governor will sign it and we will be the third state to have it, after Vermont and Alaska. Vermont has had it ever since they have been a state (one of the first) and they have one of the lowest crime rates in the country. Maybe some of you judge your fellow citizens by yourselves but we are not all raving lunatics. Aren't you the same person whether or not your firearm has got a shirt or jacket over it? Why should the way you wear it turn you into a killer? I have neighbors who are police officers and carry open all the time. I also have neighbors who grew up in Poland under a government that allowed them no rights. They also open carry all the time. Remember, gun control is the ability to hit your target.
one more thing....
for the person who said you shouldn't be able to carry a gun while drinking.
It is in fact illegal to carry a gun while you are under the influence of alcohol. Most people who carry guns know, or should know this already.
Also MOST people who carry are very well trained in the use of their guns and also the the legalities and possible ramifications of using their guns should they ever have to.
Concealed weapons permits are only given to people once they pass an approved course, qualify with the weapon demonstrating they know how to handle it safely and fire it accurately, and pass a background check by law enforcement to ensure they have NO prior criminal record.
As a law abiding citizen myself who has a concealed carry permit. I have no interest in robbing a 7-11 or anything else. I have no desire to put myself into any situation where I would have to shoot anyone. If I never have to draw my weapon on someone I will be perfectly fine and thankful for that. But should trouble find me unsuspectingly, I will at least have the means and opportunity to defend myself. Like a previous poster said, I'd rather stand judged by 8 than carried by 6.
Have a peaceful day.
dipstick
"half these morons dont know how to DRIVE, no less shoot a gun."
I think you're right, the half being the Anti Gun Nuts that don't know how to drive no less shoot a gun!
What do you want to bet that most of these cry babies are from California where in most cases they are NOT allowed to carry a gun concealed or open, thanks to loons like Feinstein and Boxer who have stripped them of their self defense rights.
BTW, they are not clips they are magazines and an unloaded gun is basically the same as having no gun. Here is another one you will love, handgun safeties KILL, this has been demonstrated by police officers that have been shot during the chaos because they forgot to remove the safety and were shot while attempting to pull their trigger to no avail.
@Det__Munch.
Google is your friend.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=kom+674+las+vegas
KOM 674 is the call sign that the FCC gave metro.
Having the KOM ### on the plate frames started in Kalifornia about 20 to 25 years ago. And it actually made them targets for some of the hardcore gang bangers.
And it worked. I was able to call her out right?
correction....not judged by 8.
It's judged by 12 than carried by 6. Spent a lot of time in the courtroom the gun totin' criminal I am. LOL
I dont want anyone other than law enforcement to carry a weapon near my family.
All these guys will accomplish is the posting of "No Guns Allowed" signs in all stores, restaurants, bars, and other private places. They're asking to be denied service and access.
So let's give them what they want Put up a "No Guns Allowed" sign in your place of business today, and start showing these goofballs the door.
FWIW:
In an extensive series of studies of large, nationally representative samples of crime incidents, criminologist Gary Kleck found that crime victims who defend themselves with guns are less likely to be injured or lose property than victims who either did not resist, or resisted without guns. This was so, even though the victims using guns typically faced more dangerous circumstances than other victims. The findings applied to both robberies and assaults. Other research on rape indicated that although victims rarely resisted with guns, those using other weapons were less likely to be raped, and no more likely to suffer other injuries besides rape itself, than victims who did not resist, or resisted without weapons. There is no evidence that victim use of a gun for self-protection provokes offenders into attacking the defending victim or results in the offender taking the gun away and using it against the victim.
The economist John Lott, in his book More Guns, Less Crime, states that laws which make it easier for law-abiding citizens to get a permit to carry a gun in public places, cause reductions in crime. Lott's results suggest that allowing law-abiding citizens to carry concealed firearms deters crime because potential criminals do not know who may or may not be carrying a firearm. Lott's data came from the FBI's crime statistics from all 3,054 US counties.
Note: There are NO STATISTICS regarding potential crimes which are thwarted daily by the mere branishing of a firearm - hence all statistics associating guns with the prevention of crime are conservatively skewed.
: {
ROCK ON...........it is refreshing to see people stand up for their rights instead of rolling over , playing dead and ignoring the fact our rights are being taken away from us...........although I don't open carry ( mine is hidden in home to use on noninvited guests) I have no problem with those that do open carry.
Irrefutable proof that skerlahdee is most definitely birdiedreamin:
here:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/aug...
open wide, teabaggers
health care reform coming
whether you like it or not
republican revolution?
over. period.
end of story
here:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/mar...
end of story
here:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/aug...
Gibby the Clown
and here:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/elsewhe...
Johnnie Boy
I always knew it....the first link is absolute proof, and I even called him out on it.
Sorry, first link was bad
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/aug...
Humm... I thought that Dave Stillwell looked very familiar when i open the newspaper this morning..... I personally have seen this man wander around our neighborhood thinking that he is way up in the air.. with his gun toting attitude.. its one thing to have a gun for protection and use it accordingly.. but it is quite another thing to wlak around our home area and scare are families the way he has... I also was with my friend on another day and happened to see Dave stillwell in action in a public place while another customer was no more than curious to why he was so openly packing as he so blantly put it he was rather alarming how he came across ...if you are going to exercise your right to bear arms do it maturly and with the common respect to your fellow americans... we too have the right just as he does to feel safe and not have to deal with people like him that thinks that they are above the rest of us.. So not to be be rude.. Mr.Stilwell please put it into check along with your attitude.. the right to bear arms does not give you the right to insult your fellow americans
stop trolling henderson
In response to "WHAT OPPONENTS SAY: More guns open the door for more danger. The wild, wild West wasn't a safe place precisely because more people carried guns". I have heard this comment many times. Now I ask, other than Hollywood movies and TV, how much does the average citizen know about the "wild, wild West"? The dramatized film and novel versions of the "old" West are primarily "drama". Most folks in the old West used their firearms as tools for protection and survival. It was the "outlaws" who used their guns in unlawful ways that provided the drama for movies and books. And it is the "unlawful" use of firearms today that feed news stories, movies and books. There are still "outlaws" in the present day West, and there are "law-abiding citizens" in the present day West. Should the "outlaws" be the only ones that carry firearms?
The god given right of self defense is not negotiable. How a man decides to go about it is his business.
The news loves to engender fear, it's easy and they do it well for many people. The news rarely gives accurate information without backhanded comments or innuendo. The shock that someone is wearing a gun and nobody got shot is a novel idea to them. Many progressives have a fear complex that exceeds the bounds of logic and they bleat the progressive mantra of everything but government being bad for you. The rumors of dodge city springing up after the CCW law has yet to happen, anywhere. Guns never were the problem, progressive policies are the problem.
magoo---dont get your hopes up unless you get a belated pardon from arnold...Does not matter that law will never change...
henderson--- for your ??? about invaders in the middle of the night...Get a nice family dog,, like a pitbull to awaken you so you will be aware that someone has entered your home... It will give you a headsup so you will be almost awake to do what is necessary to protect your family...
Those of you that are against someone carrying openly then im sure there is something you do that some dislike about what you do..Like running your mouth about something legal and not saying anything about illegal things... these laws have been around a long time and do any of you think they will be changed because of your dislike for someone that is expressing his rights as an american...who gives a rats ass what sweden does as when it all comes down to it,, swedens sorry ass will be calling on america when they get into some BS and need the help that they cant handle on there own...Its 2010 and crime is everywhere you turn so it is nice to know that some people besides cops are there to protect us in a situation that could mean the taking of some innocent lives but only to take a criminals life...Anyways Smarterthannone when you can catch bullets with your hands and throw them back then you would be good to go on that real man thing....LOL....
asleep,
I am not a fan of pitbulls but I have a great St. Bernard. And a gun.
My question was directed at the people that don't use guns for home defense. I fail to understand how they intend to protect their families should someone break into their homes.
Or are you just going to let them tie you and your family up, rifle through your stuff, give them your credit cards, ATM's, pin numbers, jewelry, car keys, and pray they don't kill you.
That's usually how these home invasions happen.
"Opponents say the more guns that are being toted around, the greater the possibility that a bystander could be hit by a stray bullet, the more likely it is that a criminal will get a citizen's gun and use it for no good. "
Yes, I understand that kind of nervousness on the part of people unfamiliar with guns. But they need to assess their concerns in a rational as opposed to emotional way. Saying that guns are more likely to be used if more guns are present is exactly the same as saying that more flat tires will occur if everyone carries a jack. It just isn't true. Criminals are always going to have access to weapons, and you're not going to see them until they want you to. Only when you're attacked by one of them will you need your gun just like you only need your jack when the tire goes flat. We all have to calm down and start to trust that good, law abiding citizens can be counted on to act responsibly while carrying their guns. I feel a lot safer thinking that the person next to me at the restaurant or in the shopping mall may be armed. I know the bad guys are thinking that too. And that stops a lot of crime and violence. Open carry is largely symbolic. It celebrates the freedom of the American people under our Constitution. I like to see it practiced every now and then. But my real comfort comes from knowing that thousands of citizens carry concealed every day.