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StumbleLETTER TO THE EDITOR:
U.S. Constitution clearly forbids this health care law
Sunday, April 4, 2010 | 2:03 a.m.
Regarding the lawsuits filed by state attorneys general against the recently passed health care reform legislation:
There exists a legitimate question of whether our Constitution grants the central government the power to require each citizen of the U.S. to buy health insurance. The powers of Congress are limited and enumerated in Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution and do not contain the authority to compel citizens to purchase any product or service.
Moreover, the 10th Amendment reserves the powers not enumerated and designated to the central government to the states respectively or to the people.
James Madison, in Federalist 41, argued the general welfare clause of our Constitution is neither a statement of ends nor a substantive grant of power. It is a mere “synonym” for the enumeration of particular powers, which are limited, and wholly define its content.
The supreme law of the land clause of the Constitution is not applicable because all laws made in pursuance of the Constitution, or those clearly enumerated in the document, were supreme, state laws notwithstanding. In other words, the central government was supreme in all items clearly listed in the document.
The federal government will probably hang its hat upon the commerce clause, which has been tortured in recent years to cover virtually any eventuality with which our federal lawmakers disagree, most notably in the case in which the Supreme Court used the clause to invalidate the will of California voters on medical marijuana.
I find it ridiculous that the level of civic literacy in our political discourse has declined to the point at which any concept of federalism, knowledge of the historical milieu of the founding of our nation and the intent of the founders regarding the process and practice of governance of our republic is gone.
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"There's a sucker born every minute" was said by the famous circus owner P.T. Barnum. The Republican Party has taken that quote to heart. Republican candidates are telling their constituents they will "repeal and replace" health care reform in hopes of filling their coffers. Like P.T. Barnum's circus side show, the Republican Party is relying on the ignorance of it's members, duping them out of their money. It's another of those Twilight Zone approaches they been using for over a year now, coinciding with "death panels" and "a government run" health system.
It's a false promise, repealing health reform will, simply put, not happen. Not in the next few years, or possibly for a generation. Hopefully in the near future voters will see the Republican party for what it is, noise makers without ideas, including how "fiscally conservative" they are in light of recent revelations about the RNC spending spree.
Mr. Glover, is it your opinion as well, that if our Constitution does not grant the central government the power to require each citizen of the U.S. to buy health insurance, that similarly it does not have the power to forcibly remove a citizen who has been convicted of no crime, from his home, job and family, subject him to months of physical and mental conditioning, then send him thousands of miles away against his will, and demand he kill someone the central government selects as his target?
In 1918, the Supreme Court ruled that the World War I draft did not violate the United States Constitution. Arver v. United States, 245 U.S. 366 (1918). The Court held that the Constitution's grant to Congress of the powers to declare war and to create standing armies included the power to mandate conscription! It rejected arguments based on states' rights, the Thirteenth Amendment, and other provisions of the Constitution.
Note: the Selective Service Administration remains in operation and the Draft may be used again at any time the central government chooses to fight another war.
Wailer Bob Glover is correct in the fact that the powers of Congress are limited and enumerated in Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution and do not contain the authority to compel citizens to purchase any product or service. Numerous States are in the process of instituting a law suit against the United States that will end up in the Supreme Court for a decision.
Most importantly, the 10th Amendment reserves the powers not enumerated and designated to the central government to the states respectively or to the people. Some people think that health care is Federal Government responsibility because they say it is a right that is provided for in the Constitution. This too will probably end up in the Supreme Court for a decision.
The Tea Party Movement is a result of our elected officials not listening to the people about health care reform and ramming the flawed ObamaCare down their throts. When YOUR elected officials tells YOU that they know what is best for YOU and how best to tax and spend YOUR tax dollars, then it is time for the people to use their power of the vote to put representatives in office who will listen to the will of the people. It is also time to remove those public officials who do not listen to their constituents...
Oh, by the way...
The Democrat's game plan for the next six months will be a continuous demonizing, belittling and name calling of the Tea Party and it's members.
As they did to George Bush, they will try to do to the Tea Party.
Gee I dunno. It's not that I don't trust Bob and Larry's clear cut interpretations, but I'm gonna wait until I hear what other constitutional scholars like Sarah Palin and Glen Beck have to say.
Obama has no respect for process or the law
Remember when the Comrade Roosevelt proposed all the unconstitutional programs during his Raw Deal program? The Whiner in Chief threatened to appoint his stooges to the Supreme Court so he could get his way. The taxpayers have paid dearly ever since. Obama will try something very crooked to shove this piece of garbage down our throats.
The Militia Act of 1792 required male citizens to buy a musket, ammo, belt, knapsack, etc. Also the Supreme Court ruled 6-3 that a closet crop of medical marijuana in California, and not distributed out of state was under the jurisdiction of the Federal government.
If someone builds a vehicle or airplane, doesn't take it out of state, its operation and certain aspects of its construction are still under Federal law.
A viable network of hospitals and emergency rooms are needed for National security reasons, war, terrorism, epidemic.
I am impressed with all the knowledge of the constitution and facts presented here in the article and comments section. There are many people that are sick of this tyranny and have lots of great information to share from doing their own research into these matters. I think the key term provided by Bob Glover here is "CIVIC LITERACY". It is good that people are waking up and forming these tea parties and other types of groups, but what is being done on a long term LOCAL level to offer a correct education on the history and founding of our country based on the Constitutional Republic. How can we pool our time effort and knowledge to spread the word in our local communities over time to help educate the other lost sheep in our area. How about forming a type of education format on where we came from, how we got here and where do we want to go as a country. We can talk talk talk all day, but what are we DOING about it?
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. -Thomas Jefferson
Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson
The time for action to educate the mass is now!!! While sports and video games are great distractions, they must be put on hold now so that the freedom of choice to pursue things can remain intact.
Our Constitution has been re-written by judges many times over.
It has been corrupted many times by the justices.
On this matter, there is only one person who really will be person who declares what the Constitution means and that is Justice Kennedy.
Four of the judges will say it is unconstitutional and four of them will say it is constitutional.
It is 50-50 on what Kennedy will say.
Based on comments by constitutional scholar "LarryVegas",
I JUST CANCELED MY CAR INSURANCE!
SQUISH THE FACIST GECCO!
Sarah, Sarah, Sarah, Sarah, Sarah, Sarah, Sarah, Sarah!
"The Militia Act of 1792 required male citizens to buy a musket, ammo, belt, knapsack, etc"
The milita was the army reserve back then.
The act required every citizen when their turned 18 to join the milita and this was their method of a draft. Instead of randomly selecting a sub-section of 18 year-olds, they selected the entire population of 18 year-olds.
This is done via the National Defence powers of the government.
Last time I check getting health insurance has nothing to do with national defence.
Hey Willie...
Does the Federal Government require you to have auto insurance?
Leave my Gecko friend alone and go chase the Easter Bunny around for a while.
Have a good Easter and get back to us later...
explain medicare and medicaid, rockheads.
dippy,
Please explain why medicare and medicaid are in such bad financial shape and how much tax money will have to be dumped into the programs to bring them back to solvency?
Oh, by the way. How much taxpayer money will have to be dumped into private health insurance to make them solvent?
Meciare and Social Security have a combined over a $100 trillion unfunded liability.
Constitution, what Constitution? We don't need no stinkin' Constitution.
Richard Cordray is the attorney general of Ohio, and Tom Miller is the attorney general of Iowa; both who believe:
Congress has the authority to regulate anything that affects interstate commerce "among the several States." This is bolstered by the supremacy clause, which explicitly makes the Constitution and the laws of the United States "the supreme Law of the Land" for all Americans.
For Congress to have the power to pass this legislation, therefore, the health care problem need only affect interstate commerce. It clearly does.
Republicans will continue to lie to their constituents in hopes of raising donations, be carefull of what you wish for.
Unconstitutional? yeah, so is income tax but we're paying that aren't we?. You can't fight City Hall ,well you can but you'll lose. You can watch the show or be the show ,I'm gonna watch this reform crap fall apart at the seams.
Would those anti-health reform people like to know where your premiums go? Do you really understand why restrictions need to be enforced on greedy executives?
According to the Los Angeles Times, CEO Angela Braly's of WellPoint, total compensation shot up from $8.7 million to $13.1 million last year. At least three other executives there did just as well, with raises of up to 75 percent.
Meanwhile, 800,000 individual policyholders in California are learning of this good news for WellPoint executives a month before their own insurance rates are set to spike by double digits - an unprecedented rate increase initiated on Angela Braly's watch.
Get rid of this damnable reform and turn our healthcare right back to the insurance companies. They have done such a wonderful job for us in the past, haven't they?
Wire tapping, torture, not extending due process, insider trading.....good
insuring 30 million Americans......bad
you have to love the crazy GOP thought process. No actually its appalling and scary.
And to think the GOP party has Christian values...
When the Obama administration takes on regulating Wall Street, will Republicans be stupid enough to stop that too?
Remember, those greedy Wall Street executives who've made billions off of our tax dollars; the ones who almost killed our economy?
I have absolutely no problem with making a profit, but making huge profits at the expense of the middle class is insanity.
Instead of buying fancy toys and outlandish homes why aren't these incredibly greedy people pumping money back into the economy?
During the late 1930's & well into the 1950's there were many right-wing nuts trying to get the Supreme Court to declare Social Security unconstitutional.....guess what?
It didn't happen. In a series of court cases, the Court said that the program was constitutional. Look for the same thing to happen with the Obama Healthcare program....
Once Americans discover what the program consist of, look for a large majority of them to embrace the new healthcare program the way they now embrace Society Security & Medicare...
What's in your Teabag? Koolade?
*******************************
"Stan G = why do you keep equating Obamacare to US imposed slavery on its citizens. I mean, I totally agree that is what this is, but you are FOR Obamacare. It doesn't make any sense to support your position by saying the US government can enslave its own citizens. Where did you get this nutty talking point from?"
********************************
Methinks you answered your own question. I was making the point that if such an extreme obligation of a citizen is actually constitutional, then a comparatively mild sacrifice can't be considered too onerous. Both are justified as being in the best interests of the nation. The best interests of the individual affected is of no apparent concern when the Health and Welfare of the nation as a whole is at stake.
Hey Wolfy,
What did you do with the Easter Bunny? He never came to visit me this year.
Is he in your oven???
Hey Las Vegas Sun, Here's an idea: just post a page where the idiots that hide behind the issues and don't address them can just insult each other all day long. Most of the people commenting on here don't need a topic to discuss, they just want trade insults and puff thier chests out at each other. Just call it NO ISSUES JUST INSULTS.
deadan78 - "Wire tapping, torture, not extending due process, insider trading.....good
insuring 30 million Americans......bad
you have to love the crazy GOP thought process. No actually its appalling and scary.
And to think the GOP party has Christian values..."
Add another item to that list, military-industrial-complex, war profiteering in the name of patriotism.
LarryVegas......
Nope! As I have mentioned several times, I would never harm a single hair on the Easter Bunny's head. He & I are buddies... He always throws a few chocolate filled eggs in my direction each year..
He told me, just a few days ago, that he was going to be very, very busy for the next several days hiding all those eggs for the little children that look forward to hunting them on Easter morning...
My guess is that he didn't show up at your house, thinking that you're all grown up & no longer are into hunting eggs on Easter morning....
Boy, was he ever wrong.... Talk later "kid'o."
The only consistant thing you can say about the constitution
is that it is consistantly being disambiguated by those that
seek to exploit it.
The letter is an April Fools joke.
So you have to liquidate all your assets and sell your home to pay your Medical Bills? and you whine this is not fair?
Silly slaves welcome to the Free Enterprise/Capitalist meat grinder. Now read yur Bibles and clutch the Constitution daddy needs another Benz.
This is what all those anti-anything Obama demonstrations are about. Fear of a black man in the White House. Coming from Chicago no one, but no one looked into his background? Not the FBI, CIA, NSA or even local police? Duh? It's no wonder we are losing the battle to China on world economy.
There are far too many stupid people in this country:
67 percent of Republicans believe that Obama is a socialist.
57 percent of Republicans believe that Obama is a Muslim
45 percent of Republicans agree with the Birthers in their belief that Obama was "not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president"
38 percent of Republicans say that Obama is "doing many of the things that Hitler did"
24 percent of Republicans say that Obama "may be the Antichrist."
The poll, taken at the height of the health-care reform debate, also clearly shows that education is a barrier to extremism.
Respondents without a college education are vastly more likely to believe such claims, while Americans with college degrees or better are less easily duped.
It's a reminder of what the 19th-century educator Horace Mann once too-loftily said: "Ignorance breeds monsters to fill up the vacancies of the soul that are unoccupied by the verities of knowledge."
High percentages of Republicans believe that President Obama is "racist," "anti-American" "wants the terrorists to win" and "wants to turn over the sovereignty of the United States to a one-world government."
Death threats against the president were up 400% for Obama versus Bush his first week in office.
Vernos, well said. One only has to look at the lineup a CONapalooza out in Searchlight last week - Palin, Joe the Plumber, Victoria Jackson, Wayne Allyn Root, et al. I mean seriously, that pretty much says it all. Stooooopid flags waiving high and proud all over the place.
If there is one thing that scares me about the teabaggers and Cons, it's the utter lack of intellectual curiosity and critical thinking skills. All knee jerk reaction, no thought process. Dumbed down is putting it mildly. Hey, when is American Idol on tonight?
I am tired of these pathetic little Racists wrapping themselves in OUR Flag and telling us we are anti-American.
Most of this Tea Bagger deal is nothing more than another NSA-CIA operation. Same scripts, same footprints, boring.
These people are not relevant because it is all made-up nonsense. It is Theater.
I have learned a lot today. Appears that VernosB is not only a Socialist, he is also a racist...
The Democrat's game plan for the next six months is continuous demonizing, belittling and name calling of the Tea Party and it's members.
And now the Liberals are trying to label the Tea Party people as racists.
How pathetic...
If the shoe fits...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...
Time to wake up people.
I don't believe the the govt has the right to require people to purchase health insurance and the auto insurance argument makes no sense. If you don't want to buy auto insurance, don't drive. What is the counter argument? If you don't want to buy health insurance, don't breathe?
What about people who are unemployed (9.7% of the population) and people who have little or no assets (a huge percentage of the population). These people cannot pay for insurance and are not able to be fined for not having it. As the saying goes, you can't get blood from a stone. Take a guess who is going to pay for their health care? These people are going to play the system for all it's worth. I guess don't hate the player, hate the game. I do not support this bill but I will benefit from it...I just don't think the country will.
sgtrock: Don't you remember George Bush's war in Iraq? That's where the Social Security money went. Bush and his administration's Congressional comrades stole it from the respective Social Security and Medicare trust funds to pay for his illegal and unfunded Iraq clusterf**k. If you want to complain that there is no money in those funds, blame that stupid turd for it.
And think about this: the government is not going to force you to buy anything. If you have insurance either from your employer of from a private policy, you don't have to do a thing. If you don't want to get insurance, you don't have to. If you don't however, Uncle Sam will force you to pay a tax in lieu of buying insurance of your choice. And you will be insured by a policy of the governments choice, whether you like it or use it is up to you.
So they are not forcing you to do anything. Do nothing if you want. But be prepared to pay for doing nothing. It's called Hobson's Choice, Google it if you don't know what it means.
The Supreme Court did rule that many of FDR's social programs as unconstitutional.
So FDR came up with this game plan to stack the court to over come that.
He wanted to greatly expand the number of seats so that he could put his guys in and then they could rule for him and not against.
The public was very mad at FDR and the Democrats lost tons of seats in the next election (probably will be repeated this fall).
He did not get to stack the court.
However, one of the Supreme Court justices decided to switch his vote and they started to rule in favor of FDR's plans.
It is where the saying "switch in time that saved nine" comes from.
LarryVegas had another brain fart and blew an idea out of his butt.
I am so far from being a racist you have no idea! I grew up in one of the most diverse neighborhoods with a diverse family background in the Bronx. We as neighbors always treated one another with respect. Certainly, we didn't have small town attitudes where every one looked alike and went to the same schools and churches.
It's people like you jumping to conclusions that is putting the screws to this country.
Talk alot of trash with little facts!
Stating facts about the reaction people are having to a black man as president should tell some of you where we are as a country. Most of which started with the campaign.
To say he is the anti-Christ is pure insanity based on stupidity. And if some really read their bible they'd realize the anti-Christ originates in Europe, but hate takes over logic and intellect.
Fear is driving numbers of people in this country over the edge and clowns like Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, Coulter and others couldn't care less about the consequences. Some of those clowns even spoke of secession.
On a daily basis I hear all sorts of assinine comments from people in my environment, I just had enough of the crap to post what I did today.
The president has reached across the aisle many times, but the right wants it all their way with no concessions, they still think they are the majority.
Win back the White House and Congress at any cost, regardless of the cost to the general public.
Mr VernosB wrote: "This is what all those anti-anything Obama demonstrations are about. Fear of a black man in the White House."
Now if that is not a racist statement, I am the Easter Bunny...
By JUAN WILLIAMS
"There is danger for Democrats in recent attempts to dismiss the tea party movement as violent racists deserving of contempt. Demonizing these folks may energize the Democrats' left-wing base. But it is a big turnoff to voters who have problems with the Democratic agenda that have nothing to do with racism."
It's not racist, look at the polling LarryVegas, there are many idiots out there believing what I listed previously, apparently you are one of them.
Denying the truth is what you guys on the right are very good at!
Once again I'll say you have no idea what the hell you are running around in that head of yours, or as my Staff Sgt. would say, "a pea rattling around in a box car!"
So VernosB does not think that his statement is racist:
"This is what all those anti-anything Obama demonstrations are about. Fear of a black man in the White House."
Appears to me that VernosB is stating that if you are not a Obama supporter, then you are a racist...
So, show me where I am wrong...
What is funny Larry is that are black people who do not like Obama...even think he is a evil person.
I guess Racist Vernos would tag them as racists too.
VernosB.....
I agree with everything you have said....A fair number of those who hate Obama do so because of racism. Of course, not all right-wingers are racists but many are.... Throw in some of the extreme religious right, along with many "red-necks," and one starts to get the picture...
The racists died a thousand deaths when Obama was elected.... they will continue to go that route when he's re-elected.
The number of extreme right-wing racists groups in this country is on the rise.....the Para-military people are buying their guns & their ammo, getting ready for what they believe is a coming revolution....
6-8 years ago, I worked with a couple guys who were nice guys over all, but unfortunately they had some extreme right-wing views that included border line racism.
They always used part of every pay check to buy additional ammo....They always told me that a revolution was coming and they planned to fight for what belonged to them... They were very serious about that very thing...
When they first told me that, I thought they were joking, but then I realized that they weren't joking...
The Jim Jones' and David Koresh's are calling SgtRock and ClueLess Larry, will you join? They would be most happy to accomodate you both.
Forrest Gump had more common sense!
Do a bit of research and show the poll I posted to be incorrect or wrong.
The poll states what the poll states, Republicans are the ones who took the poll and that is what they believe, regardless of what you two think.
If you guys want to play this silly game then let's play.
Obama is a racist.
He automatically assumed a white cop was racial profiling.
He is a racist.
Obama went to a racist church who say about themselves.....
That they have a black value system and are soliders for black freedom.
"We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land,"
"We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community."
If Palin went to church that had those words except substitute "white" for "black" then Vernos and El_low_brow heads would literally explode.
Libs play the race card about every 2 seconds in a day.
Soon it will be every 1 second in a day.
When one day an actual racist event occurs people will just ignore them for they will haved placed those libs on mute button.
Wow.
Anyone who reads these comment pages and denies racism isn't alive, well, and thriving on the right is in total denial. Please.
Nothing new coming out of CorporalPebbles pie hole....
i think this free health care for everyone, except working people who have to pay is a good ideal. I think its legal, just like its legal in other countries. I think gov Yibbens is a bad man and hates Mexicans . This is why he no like health care.
If you tax the American citizen, you can impose other fiscal responsibilities on him (whether you name it a tax or not). There are many attorneys general who are counting on a Roberts court to do something as stupid as was done in the decision to allow corporations (not mentioned in the Constitution) to give unlimited funds to causes as a matter of "freedom of speech". Note the language of the Bill of Rights wherein its protections are given to "people" not "juridical persons" which is what our courts have manufactured for our corporate "citizens". Those are the ones who do all their business from a Headquarters in the Carribean and manufacturing plant in China and avoid taxes in the bargain.
It is clear beyond any doubt whatsoever that Congress could pass and the President sign into law a 10% surcharge on every American's adjusted gross income to pay for a Medicare for all plan. The Constitution is not the clearest nor is it the least ambiguous document in the world. But if freedom of speech is porteected how come the court decided that "pornography is NOT PROTECTED" speech. How come a right of privacy, never mentioned in the Constitution was used to justify abortion in Roe v. Wade.
Wake up and smell the roses. Our future depends on who appoints the justices to the Supreme Court.
These Republicans (and one dumb Democratic governor) are continuing the idiocy that brought us to this awful state of affairs in the first place.
.
Democrats will face angry constituents
By REP. JOHN SHADEGG
PHOENIX -- Colin Powell famously said about Iraq: "You break it, you own it." Now Democrats own health care.
Never before in American history has such far-reaching legislation passed on a purely partisan basis -- not Social Security, not Medicare, not Civil Rights and not SCHIP.
No major social policy change ever! This bill passed with sheer one-party support. No compromise, middle ground or bipartisanship. The bill is a stunning example of a Congress not listening. Americans wanted their leaders to focus on an economy that has hemorrhaged jobs.
President Obama promised "change you can believe in." Speaker Nancy Pelosi promised to make the U.S. Congress "the most honest, ethical and open" in history. Broken promises anger Americans, and they are livid.
The health care bill is packed with backroom deals: the "Louisiana Purchase," the "Cornhusker Kickback," and too many more to list. In the final push, Speaker Pelosi added $100 million for Tennessee and a special subsidy for a North Dakota bank. Democrats arguing that the health care bill was principled will face angry constituents demanding answers about sleazy deals.
On top of all that, Pelosi and Obama refused to address the health care issue Americans are most concerned about: cost. During the campaign, Obama promised to lower the cost of health coverage for the average family by $2,500. This promise was abandoned. No credible source says this bill will lower costs.
Premiums won't go down in the next year, they'll go up. They'll rise 10 percent to 15 percent, according to the Congressional Budget Office. The bill will grow government by $2.5 trillion over 10 years. Everyone knows the CBO scores were gamed. The Democrats' claim that the bill will reduce the debt while insuring vastly more people -- and giving them better care -- is absurd on its face.
President Obama and Speaker Pelosi gave health insurance companies a huge gift -- a government-enforced individual mandate that forces Americans to purchase government-approved insurance or pay a fine.
Shockingly, 16,000 more IRS agents and $10 billion will be necessary to enforce this mandate. More agents and money for the IRS than ever! Republicans won the majority in Congress in 1994 in significant part because of an increase in voter turnout. That spike in turnout occurred because the Democrats stopped listening to the American people. Sadly, Republicans did the same 12 years later.
Americans don't like broken promises or sleazy, corrupt deals made behind closed doors. But, District of Columbia Democrats haven't learned from their own mistakes before 1994 or Republicans' mistakes after 1994. In passing this bill they broke their promises and ignored the people.
Americans have already begun the revolution against Washington's massive government takeover of not just health care, but the auto industry, banks, student loans and more.
This time, there's no putting the genie back in the bottle. Americans want a better health care system, but they want to keep their current plan, and they don't like politicians telling them they know better how to run their lives.
This bill was classic Washington backroom dealing by powerful politicians. President Obama could have written a health care reform bill with bipartisan input. He could have kept his promise to end lobbyist influence and backroom deals. He could have said "no" to bribing powerful congressmen and senators to get their votes. He could have at least tried to change the way Washington works.
Sadly, he let congressional Democrats do the dirty work, and the process was a stunning repudiation of "change you can believe in." Make no mistake, this November voters will hold the political class accountable.
(Rep. John B. Shadegg, RAriz., is a member of the House Energy and Commerce Committee. Readers may write to him at 436 Cannon House Office Building, Washington, D.C. 20515
the teabaggers and the republican party are one and the same.
I pray and hope everyday that the koolaid libs keep attacking the Tea Party people and keep using vulgar terms to describe them.
Please grant me this one wish.
teabagger, rockhead. your wish is granted.
wheres all the constitutional lawyers when you need them?
After reading all the comments posted I wonder if any of them are "Pen" names of any member of the Supreme Court. As I am not a member I'll wait until they have a chance to rule on this law. As George Burns once said, "It's too bad all the people that know how to run this country are busy cutting hair and driving taxis."
I get a kick out of reading some of these comments here,and it shows just how blind some people are.For one,this tea party is not a bunch of people from one party that are pissed,its people from all parties.The problem with the health care system is not with how its used,but by who has used,and abused it to its current state!Had these polititions inforced our border policies more,the illeagals would not have run our system in the sewer!Go into any ER across the country,and by 5/1,7/1 and sometimes 10/1 tax payers are sitting waiting for the health care they have already paid for!Its time for real Americans to stand up,and TAKE BACK OUR HOUSE!!!
They should have just had a single payer, public option. Everyone would have health care and there is no argument that congress may not collect taxes. Obama took the easy way out with the recycling of an old GOP corporate welfare plan.
Page 336 of the Bill-
''(g) ADMINISTRATION AND PROCEDURE.--
(1) IN GENERAL.--The penalty provided by this section shall be paid upon notice and demand by the Secretary, and except as provided in paragraph (2),shall be assessed and collected in the same manner as an assessable penalty under subchapter B of chapter 68.
(2) SPECIAL RULES.--Notwithstanding any other provision of law-- ''(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.--In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.-- The Secretary shall not--''(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or ''(ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.''.
So boys and girls - there you have it - NO penalty if you don't pay the "penalty tax" for not having mandated insurance. So let's move on to something else...
chediski, please post the URL to the version of the bill you are using.
The federal government has overstepped its authority in mandating the buying of insurance by taxpayers who are opposed to its intrusion into a citizen's personal business.
http://docs.house.gov/rules/hr4872/111_h...
Instead of arguing with Teabaggers put them to the task....with their ballyhooing cries of "We want our country back!"
Ask them politely..."what time period do you want to go back too?" 1950's, '60s, '80s with Reaganomics, be specific.
If they persist on ballyhooing on cries of "less government" or "government that governs the least governs the best"....ask them to expound on this because as it stands government is in every aspect of our individual lives.....ie IRS, FDIC, Tri-Care, MediCare, Social Security, EUI. State income taxes, mandates for taxes on purchasing vehicles, homes etc, etc. City level, property taxes, taxes to register your vehicle and so on and so on.
Tell them to give up their SSI, Tricare, VA benes, tell em to pull their money from banks that have FDIC and put it under their mattress, tell em to give up their car registration and their right to drive on roads created from this taxation and tell em...."Hey don't pay your federal and state taxes" and see where that lands em.
If youre gonna decry some of government, decry ALL of government. Teabaggers come off as flaky in their resolve because they're not making sense in their "pick and choose agenda."
The mandate for purchasing health insurance was authored by then (R) Sen Bob Dole in '94 to insure that ER visits by people without insurance would have accountability, the passing of the mandate back then failed and as you can see look at the state of hospitals and their ERs today and the rising costs of medicine and healthcare to make up the diffence. The system is broke.
Nothing in this world is free, people. It's not rocket science.
Thank you chediski, but that is for the Senate version from 12/24/09. That same section needs to be found in the final version passed by the House after all changes were made. It may or may not have been altered.
Reading this piece of crap bill is made all the worse because of having to constantly cross-reference all the changes it makes, even to itself.
Any government is intrusive and self-lubricating. It has no conscience and it has not an avenue to self-destruct once it's in place. That is the very reason the communist system in Russia had to be destroyed by its own people. The people in Russia put in the system, gave power to the politicians who were supposed to communize everything. But, the politicians in power lost sight of that fact over the passage of time, and instead enslaved the people. Exploited the masses to a poverty level.
Sound familiar? Barry "Akbar Allahs" Obama, with Pelosi, Reid, and Schumer have begun the process. The US Constitution will be re-written by them and then we will be broken down as an economic power.
WTF is wrong with everybody? Why is everybody so divided? The old way wasn't working so we are trying something new, if it doesn't work we will try the next president elects plan. Nobody can say that everything was or is fine. It seems to me like people care more about Obama failing than succeeding, what is that about? Shouldn't we want him to succeed? If he does good we do good. Democrats and Republicans are both completely screwed, the only reason most people join them is because they have become so powerful. How else do you get an ad campaign to compete with corporate or union intrests. People we need to come together and stop looking at this as YOUR taxes or YOUR country. Its OURS, do we really want America to turn into the rest of the world? I dont agree with all aspects of this healthcare plan, I think medicine should be socialized I also dont agree with income tax, but I pay it, proudly. Im just grateful that I have an income that can be taxed. Nobody is perfect and Im telling you listening to all this partisan rhetoric is really making me ill, Im losing hope in our country and in all of us, and right now where Im at, all I have is hope.
"Mr. Glover, is it your opinion as well, that if our Constitution does not grant the central government the power to require each citizen of the U.S. to buy health insurance, that similarly it does not have the power to forcibly remove a citizen who has been convicted of no crime, from his home, job and family, subject him to months of physical and mental conditioning, then send him thousands of miles away against his will, and demand he kill someone the central government selects as his target?"
No, Stan,
Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution clearly grants Congress the power to raise and maintain a military force for national defense and to protect the interests of the United States. As you state, the draft has been declared a constitutional exercise of Congress' power to maintain a military force, so I guess you've answered your own question.
The issue with Barry "Akbar Allahs" Obama succeeding or failing is not even an issue. There is no way that a fraudulently elected nitwit like him can succeed at all. He has shown that in his first 100 days in office.
Okey dokey, Bob. You might want to start hanging out with the tea party folks to preach to the choir. Employer provided health insurance is unconstitutional using a very similar argument. An employee can only voluntarily accept health insurance through an employer. As is often the case, the employee and the employee's extended family are covered by the employee for health insurance. This violates the 13th Amendment to the Constitution in that it makes a slave of the employee and especially the employee's family for something other than wages. To have an employee's family involved in a payment arrangement for health insurance to an employer simply makes a slave of the extended family. The employee also becomes a slave in that he or she cannot make employment decisions based on wages paid, but also has to consider the slavery of his/her extended family to the employer.
As much as people like Bob like to spout off about capitalism, in a capitalist society there should be no necessity for an employer to be responsible for health insurance for employees and the extended family of the employee. No self-respecting capitalist wishes to employ any person for any reason other than a just wage as payment for services rendered. No self-respecting capitalist employer would stoop to having a slave and slaveowner relationship with the extended family of employees. An employer should be able to hire and fire with no regard to the health and welfare of the slaves that become dependent on the capitalist employer for health insurance.
The Constitution quite clearly states that the government is responsible to "promote the general welfare". Under the Founding Fathers, that Bob likes to quote, CLEARLY the government is responsible for health insurance. A nationalized healthcare system would be the most constitutionally sound method of promoting the general welfare.
So slavery through employer provided health care must be abolished immediately as a clearly unconstitutional act that creates slaves out of millions of Americans. So let's all take a good look at the 13th Amendment and end the slavery that exists with employer provided health insurance. Let's do it today, for the millions of children who have been made slaves to the corrupt and criminal corporations of this country.
I am a liberal and proud of it. Let us have a single payer system so we can join the part of the world that isn't flat.
Obama, the puppet placed in office by people who want the government to grow by leaps and bounds, has dedicated himself to ramming through as many big spending programs he can- all under the guise of "stimulus".
He never intends to pay for them. He doesnt care about the deficits. They will be paid off through the inflation of the currency that will most certainly occur. The car that costs 30,000 today will be 33,000 next year. That $13 lunch will be $15 next year. That 8.99 buffet will be 10.99 next year. Its already happening- just keep some records and you will see.
Go to Costco and see the typical unit costs have gone from $6 to $8 in the last year or 18 months. Its insidious and sneaks up on us.
The money you saved for retirement wont be worth what it is today. These are the people who are going to pay for Obama's programs.
Come November, we can make a real change, the politicians that supported this bill must be voted out. How in the world can you have a bill so large, so much in it, and pass it without the American people all that is in it. This Administration I do not trust, I thought Bush was bad, but Obama is even worst then George Bush
yes, there will be changes - and many repukes will lose as well and King Harry will still be king.
Yes - there will be changes - like some of you numnutz will be alive because you'll finally have health care.
"As much as people like Bob like to spout off about capitalism, in a capitalist society..."
I respectfully suggest that TinyElvis immediately avail him/herself of a remedial course in reading skills and comprehension. I never once mentioned capitalism in my letter. If I also may be so bold as to request that TinyElvis read what James Madison said about the General Welfare Clause, "With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."
With regard to the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution: Article VI, Paragraph 2 "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding," Madison also said that if the Supremacy Clause was interpreted as a grant of unlimited power to our central government that, "...the entire document [Constitution] should be immediately consigned to the fire."
Before you start to argue about the meaning of the Constitution you might want to actually read it along with The Federalist to glean an idea of what the founders envisioned for the process and practice of governance of our nation.
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Completely Wrong Mr. Gover
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This letter is a biased instrument to illustrate disagreement with Obama.
Romney in Mass. put this in his reform.
It is factually wrong, the writer knows it or has not fact checked it.
The Executive Branch has already, long ago, made certain it cannot be constitutionally impaired. It is nonsense.
Any State filing a suit over this in wasting the money of the tax payers not to mention time. It is political posturing at its worse.
Stupid.
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Merci Fellow Socialists"
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Your shrill screed is typical of the type of reaction I fully expected from the statists among us. The tortured syntax of your post makes it very nearly indecipherable. You present not one single, solitary fact to refute what I've said and immediately descend to name calling and insults. If you wish to be taken seriously in a debate about the Constitutionality of legislation you might want to arm yourself with a bare modicum of information prior to calling people "stupid."
I actually believe that the legislation did not go far enough and was an extraordinary exhibition of political cowardice on the part of president Obama and the Democratic majority in Congress. If the party of harry Truman had wished to truly reform our healthcare delivery system and our health insurance system they would have simply removed from the Medicare regulations the words, "Over the age of 65." That simple act would have shown leadership, political will and the courage of one's convictions. Instead, what we got was president Obama refusing to detail what he wished to be in the legislation and leaving it up to the Congress to design this piece of unconstitutional legislative detritus. It appears that the presdient wanted plausible deniability more than true reform.