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Sunday, April 4, 2010 | 2 a.m.
Steve Sisolak
Sun archives
- Practice of on-duty firefighters raising money for charity questioned (3-31-2010)
- Fire union goal: Silence Sisolak (3-19-2010)
- Las Vegas firefighters burn up more sick time than other city employees (3-14-2010)
- Clark County firefighters profit from sick leave policy (3-7-2010)
- Commissioner offers pared Metro budget as example for others (2-25-2010)
- ‘Longevity pay’ costs millions in county (12-10-2009)
- Firefighters feeling budget backlash (5-28-2009)
- County, fire union break ice with heated words (5-7-2009)
- Firefighters have perks to give back, if they wanted to (4-29-2009)
The was a lot of response to a Sun story last week about county firefighters collecting money for the Muscular Dystrophy Foundation during work hours. Several readers wondered how many of those firefighters receive overtime or callback pay while doing charity work. And a Clark County commissioner said he will push to forbid employees from doing charity work while on the clock.
What did you learn about firefighters being on overtime or callback pay during their MDA “Boot Drive”?
First, a primer: Overtime is 1 1/2 times the regular hourly wage; callback is the same rate, but also requires a contribution to that firefighter’s pension.
It was impossible to find out which individual firefighters collected for the charity while receiving extra pay. But overtime figures for the three days that firefighters worked the annual drive in 2008 and 2009 were about the department’s average. (Figures weren’t available for this year because the drive didn’t wrap up until late last week.)
During the 2008 drive — Aug. 22, 28 and 29 — firefighters called in to replace colleagues were paid a total of $134,844 for 2,797 hours of work, or $44,948 per day. Those figures include overtime or callback, plus regular hourly pay. The additional callback and overtime averaged $14,983 a day.
In 2009, the total salary, plus overtime and callback for replacement firefighters was $137,592 for 2,854 hours, or $45,864 per day. The additional callback and overtime averaged $15,288 a day.
Commissioner Steve Sisolak argues that firefighters should not be on duty while doing charity work. What did he say about those numbers?
“Wow.”
“Callback and overtime pay is something that needs to be addressed, period. And this has nothing to do with the Boot Drive. It’s just gotten way, way out of hand.” Sisolak plans to introduce an ordinance to prohibit the practice of soliciting “on company time.”
The North Las Vegas Fire Department this year banned firefighters from collecting donations during work hours. Henderson, Boulder City and Las Vegas still allow it, although some Las Vegas firefighters contribute their time while off duty.
How do callback and overtime policies get addressed?
They’re developed during contract negotiations, which are happening now.
Do you know what’s happening in the county-firefighters union negotiations?
No. They are held behind closed doors.
Also, commissioners typically give their direction to negotiators in closed-door meetings at the end of regular meetings.
•••
Although Las Vegas is still in the grips of the Great Recession, some think it’s a good time to plan ahead.
The Sun wrote recently about a survey by UNLV researchers that found 40 percent of Las Vegans want to move out of Nevada. It prompted Commissioner Chris Giunchigliani to call for a study of zoning and building codes, which might lead to changes in the way neighborhoods are designed.
Chris Giunchigliani
Giunchigliani will be on hand Monday when a report that touches on similar themes is released.
What study is that?
The Sierra Club in Nevada and PLAN of Nevada funded a study examining six crucial issues facing the Las Vegas Valley if the area resumes growing: water, economic diversity, land use, transportation, resource conservation and changing demographics.
The study says if 27,000 federal acres are developed, the valley would add 367,000 to 509,000 residents, increasing water needs by 20 percent and energy demand by 30 percent.
PLAN opposes the Southern Nevada Water Authority’s plan to build a pipeline to take ground water from rural counties. The report says a better alternative is conservation through pricing, incentives and changing the way power is generated.
The study notes: In 2008, “power generation for the Las Vegas Valley used more water than all of the houses, lawns, swimming pools, businesses, factories, casinos, hotels, fountains and golf courses combined.”
The study will be released at 11:30 a.m. Monday at the Clark County Commission auditorium.
to those negotiating with the union...
make sure you put this on the table...
first...
dear firemen...
if you don't like what we propose...
you are all going to be fired...
we are going to replace each and every one of you...
on taxpayer terms...
and you know what...
will have all the jobs filled in a week...
two weeks tops...
now...
let's talk...
Here we go again. Another story of how we don't have a clue on the spending that goes on by our city and state. They say they spent $130,000 in OT each of the last two years and don't know who got paid or for what reason. This is unacceptable for this state to have these people in charge that have no clue whats going on. Meetings behind closed doors?? Makes you think whats being negotiated doesn't it. And please no FF respond with any reasons that this is ok. Smart business people don't spend money on goods or services and don't know what its for. By the way this is a business
Steve Sisolak has indeed brought a lot to our attention-with the help of the Sun-since he's been in office. Glad to read the Sun has finally represented other juristictions. No doubt,Clark County has made a mess of theirs. Now let's wait and see if any of the commissioners step up and actully solve any of the problems they've brought to light.
Mr birdiefreamin....they can not fire anyone in public dafety just because, as it is against state law. Plus it takes many months to train them, so not a very practical idea.
The on duty / off duty MDA thing doesn't really bother me either, as they are ready to respond from where they are at... in the station, shopping, gym, or colecting for the MDA. These activites never delay them coming to the aid of others.
To me is it simple...just hire more Firefighter? You get more jobs to good people and OT disappears. Every single one of them will be under a 100k like they should be if we just do that one thing.
if they want to help MDA do it on there own time. my union did Saturday and Sunday own time
I find it very sad that Joe Schoenmann can't find anything else to write about for the Sun. Also, you should stop painting the firefighters as the bad guys as it relates to any OT costs. Maybe you should be doing your one sided, nasty articles focusing on the government entity that chooses to not hire enough staff to cover the stations they currently have. As much as you enjoy putting the costs of OT in your articles, you do realize the firefighters who are working overtime are doing so because they have to do so. If no one voluntarily signs up for OT, the person on duty WILL not get to go home.
I know you take some kind of demented pleasure in writing your poorly thought out articles in which you continuously berate the fire departments and their staff and there will be those who take just as much sick pleasure in reading your article. It is just sad and disappointing that the Sun allows you to spend time and money to print the half-baked "stories" that you choose to call journalism. And I am sure you will take my comments as some sort of compliment to make yourself feel better, as you will see this as a testament to your fine journalistic skills with the tenacity to write such in-depth articles. Just know, those that do not subscribe to your biased, uneducated, and lack of caring to print the truth in your "stories", will continue on with clear hearts and a clear conscience while you continue to toil in the muck.
Mrss,its obvious that Joe and Steve are buddies.So don't expect the Sun to write about Sisolaks salary, the 4 staff people who are dedicated strictly to helping him or their WEEKLY bill of about $350,000 to us taxpayers.
No hyprocracy there. No siree...it must be nice to have a newspaper writer in your back pocket.
As Sisolak said "Wow".Things are most definately out of control.
Kudos to the RJ for writing balanced, fact-based stories that cover the industry and not just one juristiction based on a buddie system between one reporter and one elected official.
The greed of the public employee unions and their supporters gift of tax money continues to appall the general public. They live in a world totally insulated from reality the rest of the citizens face.
When you consider items like spending $150,000 for "volunteers" to raise money, think what is happening at the federal level. If this can happen in a city with newspapers watching and people local, think of the Billions harry Reid and friends are gifting to their friends daily.
This is why government must be limited and more local.
For the firefighter supporters of this ridiculous pay and overtime structure, you are showing the typical response when found guilty as charged: attack those that bring your corruption to the light of day and attempt to discredit them.
Thank you, Steve Sisolak and Joe Schoenmann for not backing down in your pursuit of the truth. Continue digging and reporting on this outdated, corrupt practice that may very well bankrupt Clark County and its cities.
No wonder some of the fire employees are smiling and laughing while they walk around with the boot. They are sticking it to us while begging for cold hard cash. Hilarious! Something that is more perplexing, people we elected and trusted knew this type of stuff has been going on for a long time, yet nobody spoke up until now.
Amazing that the same people wake up at 3:00 a.m. to be the first ones on the blog
Sisolak in nothing but a telemarketer that made a bunch of money, sued the county for millions and millions of dollars, is a nut job, and is now somehow a county commissioner who knows everything, just ask him.
WOW, is right, he just figured out that firefighters do the boot drive on duty, give me a break Steve. Must be nice that the Las Vegas Sun has an office in the county government building. Does the Sun pay rent for the space, phone lines, electricity etc... Maybe Joe will write an article about that. So Steve, cowboy up on this important issue, you Maverick!!!!
Dan, log on to the RJ and read the comments on yesterdays Woodbury story. You are one hundred percent correct. Some people are just ugly. Inside and out.
As they come home from church, and some will spend time with family, they are mixed up inside. Haters raise haters. Maybe hating the MDA and handicap children makes them feel good. Who knows.
nobody has used the proper phrase to describe the fire department, it's institutional corruption. it represents everything that's bad about unions.
Remember 2 sides to every story. Sisolak states he just learned that FF's are collecting for MDA on duty. Yet he signed a proclamation supporting it this year. It has been going on for 50+ years, and he didn't know? Sisolak supporters, what do you think about that. I believe someone is not being truthful, Sisolak or the Sun.
Also, right or wrong, the politicians you/we voted for are the ones that brought the OT idea to the FF's unions, it was their idea. This is absolutely fact. We, FF's were asked by these same politicians to "step up" and work the OT. Now before you start burning up your keyboards in an exhausting rant, I'm not saying it"s right or wrong, but that is the truth my friends.
croc1;
When are you guys going to man up and agree to some concessions? Stop attacking Sisolak and do what's right for us taxpayers who have had our wages cut significantly. The OT thing is out of your control, but concessions aren't!
A few years back Mr. Sisolak sued McCarren Airport over landuse rights. He was awarded millions. Funny, it came out of the County's Aviation department??? Isn't that funded by the taxpayer?? Oh,yeah he is looking out for the "taxpayer". I'm amused that some of you think a politican is looking out for you. You think Sisolak is transparent and pure as the morning dew? Ha. Ha. After he is done with the FF's, who is next? Once this all blows over I bet you he votes to raise our taxes for one of his pet projects. Manipulation at its finest.
If the FF's can't raise money for charity, then no Clark County/government employee should raise funds on the clock either. If we are going for the "jugular" here, let's be fair about it.
The loser in all of this is are the people/children that really do need charity. Sad, that is ok with some of you. Shows your character.
All this energy and anger over this firefighter issue. Is it outrageous civil service guys making $100,000+ a year? Maybe,but it didn't get that way overnight and it wont disappear overnight. The idea sort of sticks in my throat as well in a way I guess. Due to overtime right? I agree with the other poster. Hire more employees and viola ...no more OT. Of course the city might not make more money due to benefits etc. But Joe Shmoe won't have to deal with seeing blue shirts making suit wage.
Hey Birdiedreamin,
Tweet tweet...
Chirp Chirp....
It's 2010...
Ronald Regan isn't president anymore...
and is resting in peace.....
He fired the Air Traffic Controllers...
because they broke their contract...
Whistle whistle....
Would I rather have firefighters standing on the street raising donations or playing ping pong and bbq'ing at the firestation?
I'd rather pay them to be productive with their downtime from fighting fires.
I am not venemous towards the firefighters like some posters here. They have dangerous, deadly jobs and they suffer later in life probably more so than any occupation. Retired firefighters have worse health and shorter lives after retirement than most people.
Honestly, the firefighters participating in the boot drives would probably prefer to not do it. It's more work than chilling at the station.
maybevegas,
I agree with you 100%, we do need to make some concessions. In fact we have. Our union came to the table with concessions that would cut the layoffs in half, but the Mayor and City Manager would not even discuss it. Of course that is kept hush hush by the media.
Also, the FD brought in a revenue of over $4million last year transporting patients to the hospital. That was at a 30% collection rate. We offered to increase transports and in turn increase revenue, but again that is a big secret.
I'm confident when everything is said and done, FF's will have made concessions in line with everyone else. We are not the greedy jerks the media has portrayed us.
I am not a smoke eater,but support they 100%! I dare anyone of of you people here bashing them to strap on what they wear for how ever long it takes to do there job,and in some cases in extreme heat,and then carry someone out alive!!! The next time you call 911 you better hope they are in shape incase they have to carry your butt out!!!
croc1;
Thanks for the answer, it's one of the few that don't attack people asking questions (although the questions are not all logical).
Tthlt-Mr. Sisolak sued (as did many others) to be compensated for land rights taken by CC. The Aviation Dept. is another boondoggle of CC, but Sisolak was entitled to the money and it was peanuts compared to what is wasted in local govt.
I would suggest that putting personal bias aside, Mr. Sisolak is asking tough questions, where is Chris G. and our other commissioners? That's right, she wants to know what's next for planning since she missed the last growth spurt. Mrs. Brager-planning to make millions of Rhodes Blue Diamond debacle. Brown and Collins? chirp, chirp...
It's just so incredibly sad to see so many angry posters trying to pick firefighters apart like the city's sacrificial lamb of the week.
It is COMMENDABLE that firefighters have elected to spend their time and efforts to collect donations for a great cause...even if they're on the clock. As long as they're ready & able to respond to a call, nobody should have an issue with this.
It is REPREHENSIBLE that Sisolak and his choir of haters are spending time and effort to demean EXEMPLARY behavior by our firefighters.
hey, i see these dudes out there all the time soliciting in front of albertons in anthems. It never occurred to me that fire jockies are raking in cash, taking donations, and then working some ot at my expense!!! so that two or three times I gave a buck or two now amount to 50 or 60 bucks!!! who do you think pays the OT!!! what a rackett going on here, an idiot could drive one of those pretty red trucks..
hav1byte,
"An idiot could drive one of those pretty red trucks".
But yet YOU can't.
(Sorry everyone, I don't usually stoop to that level, but he/she made it so easy).
Go firefighters! Rip off the citizens and government as much as you can, screw those who seem concerned that you have a fabulous racket going on here. Steve Sisolak! Dude! You should be ashamed of yourself, picking on the poor firefighters and suggesting the things you have. You know darn well they only average $141,000 dollars a year; that's only 4 times what the avergae Las Vegan makes, how can they survive on anything less?
hey croc, you better believe I can, I also believe my IQ is higher than yours...got to run, the word usage in this comment area is limited to LV mentality...i perfer more stimulating conversations...later all you bellboy/cocktails duhs!!
And they say Las Vegas is free from racketeering and mob influence. NOT!!
Hey Henderson, firefighters no more put their lives on the line than anyone else. I can think of a lot more careers that are more dangerous, but I guess the police and military don't count. Pull your head out, firefighters aren't heros' they get paid a lot more than the real heros'!
hav1byte,
Thank you for honoring us with your presence, I for one feel enlightened and enriched by your stimulating input. Sorry you have to go.
By the way, I don't know who you think you're seeing "all the time" soliciting. We only collect for MDA once a year..... Just to clarify.
Hey hav1 -
Such a shame that all your lil' ol' brain cells couldn't concentrate long enough to actually read the article. You must be one of those "tortured geniuses." Guess nobody told you those facebook IQ tests (you know, the ones that say Madonna's IQ is 165) aren't exactly scientific. Ha...yep, you're smart alright...ha ha ha!
"overtime figures for the three days that firefighters worked the annual drive in 2008 and 2009 were about the department's average"
The firefighters accrue as much overtime pay the remaining 362 days per year as during the MD boot drive.
And, in case you forgot Jr. High algebra in your recent spell of mental anguish, your dollar or two donation would never amount to $50-$60 because the firefighters salaries/OT are paid by all taxpayers.
rphamblin,
I have to agree with you on a couple points.....We (FF's) are NOT heros at all. The men and women fighting for our country now and in the past are Americas true heros. Moms and Dads that work everyday to teach their children how to be good and caring people, they are heros too in my book.
But I do have a question, how are the FF's themselves "ripping off" the citizens and government?
Maybevegas,
Sounds like you are insider or staffer? Applause to you and doing your job. Do you get paid well?
Just because he couldn't build a casino (like we need anymore of those) or a highrise makes someone "entitled" to millions of taxpayers dollars? Boo hoo, I'm crying for the entitled politician. McCarren airport has not moved and airplaines have been flying over Las Vegas long before Sisolak came along. I'm sure being the "entitled" politician he donated all of his money towards his favorite charity all doing it on his own time.
Yea, all this firemens are stoopidos. I meens they cant iven reed or spells nothings goods. Whet kindaa ediots do theys thenk we is?
Charles Barkely is my hero!
I agree with the posters who say that there are jobs that are just as dangerous as being a ff. (You might get assaulted by someone who doesn't like Jerry Lewis). Check out the documentary "Flying Cheap" on PBS.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...
manfromuncle1,
Was anyone disagreeing that there are jobs just as dangerous as FFing? I haven't heard that.
And who doesn't like Jerry Lewis, that's just crazy talk.......
Sounds kinda juvenle and rediculous doesn't it...... Oh, that was your attempt at humor..... My bad.
And what does any of this have to do with the MDA "Boot Drive"?
I guess if there are more than 1 or 2 posts here you get lost.