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twitterMaglev developers forging ahead regardless of rival project
Monday, Sept. 28, 2009 | 11:45 p.m.
Reader poll
Mixed Message? seg. 1
Gov. Jim Gibbons says the proposed Maglev high-speed train from Las Vegas to California is slated for $45 million in federal funds. But, federal authorities dispute the governor's claims. What's behind the discrepancy? Plus, does Maglev or the Desert Xpress train proposal have the inside track in Washington?
Mixed Message? seg. 2
Gov. Jim Gibbons says the proposed Maglev high-speed train from Las Vegas to California is slated for $45 million in federal funds. But, federal authorities dispute the governor's claims. What's behind the discrepancy? Plus, does Maglev or the Desert Xpress train proposal have the inside track in Washington?
Mixed Message? seg. 3
Gov. Jim Gibbons says the proposed Maglev high-speed train from Las Vegas to California is slated for $45 million in federal funds. But, federal authorities dispute the governor's claims. What's behind the discrepancy? Plus, does Maglev or the Desert Xpress train proposal have the inside track in Washington?
Sun Archives
- Millions for maglev: So, where’s the money? (9-24-2009)
- Transportation secretary: Gibbons 'not accurate' in noting maglev earmark (9-23-2009)
- Maglev money sparks a Gibbons-Reid quarrel (9-18-2009)
- High-speed rail competition heats up with new funding (9-16-2009)
- Beyond Victorville: Coloradans covet high-speed rail, too (9-14-2009)
- DesertXpress train aiming for March construction start (9-1-2009)
- Forum to address DesertXpress train proposal (6-28-2009)
- High-speed train plan gets notice in D.C. (6-24-2009)
Sun Coverage
If developers of a magnetic levitation transportation system linking Las Vegas with Anaheim, Calif., are worried about some of the political issues that could hamper their proposed $12 billion project, they didn’t show it Monday night.
Representatives of the American Magline Group, which wants to build the California-Nevada Interstate Maglev Project, said they would forge ahead with their plans even if a rival group breaks ground on a traditional steel-wheels-on-rails project by March, as the rivals have said they would.
Builders of the competing project, the $4 billion DesertXpress high-speed train, have launched a worldwide search for vendors and suppliers and already have completed an environmental impact statement. They say they’ll soon begin work on the project between Las Vegas and Victorville, Calif.
But Neil Cummings, president of the American Magline Group – a coalition of companies partnering to build the maglev for the nonprofit California-Nevada Super Speed Train Commission – said he thinks the public would be more supportive of his project.
“We’ll continue on no matter what,” Cummings said in response to a question of whether the maglev plan would die if DesertXpress gets off the ground.
“One way to answer that question is, is the DesertXpress really competition for the maglev system and, really, is it a competition?” Cummings said. “Because if somebody has a choice between 300 mile-an-hour travel between Anaheim and Las Vegas or an hour and 40 minute (trip) between Las Vegas and Victorville and then get a taxi or hitch a ride or whatever you do, I’m pretty sure we’d win a competition. In theory, even if DesertXpress gets built, I’d have no problem building our train alongside it and put them out of business.”
Cummings made his comments in the second of three transportation forums sponsored by the Transportation Research Center at UNLV and the Ward 5 Chamber of Commerce, which represents businesses in the vicinity of the expected terminus of both the maglev and the DesertXpress.
Tom Stone, president of DesertXpress, gave his project’s presentation on Aug. 31 and a third forum featuring other lower-profile high-speed transportation systems is scheduled for Oct. 19.
Cummings was one of several speakers on the maglev project with representatives from other American Magline Group partners – Transrapid International USA, Hirschfeld Industries, General Atomics and Parsons – sharing the spotlight.
In recent days, political controversies have swirled around the maglev proposal with the issuance of a press release by the office of Gov. Jim Gibbons announcing the pending arrival of $45 million in federal funds to complete engineering and environmental studies for the first chunk of the maglev project, a 40-mile link between Las Vegas and Primm.
But Federal Railroad Administration officials denied that the money was forthcoming anytime soon.
Cummings explained that his group isn’t actually awaiting a check; that’s not the procedure. Instead, he said the Nevada Department of Transportation is awaiting a contract for the scope of work to be performed. Then, the American Magline Group can proceed and would be reimbursed for completed work. He added that the group already has posted $11 million in matching funds as required by legislation authorizing the $45 million.
Much of the American Magline Group presentation explained how the technology works. Maglevs are propelled by electromagnetic fields that pull the 50-ton vehicles across a guideway at speeds of up to 310 mph. While the vehicles and their guideway tracks look like a monorail, the vehicles never make contact with the track. Because there is no contact and no wheels, maglevs are quiet and don’t require the costly maintenance cycles that traditional trains need.
Other details that came out of Monday’s forum:
• Transrapid USA, a subsidiary of the German company that developed the maglev technology that is being used commercially on a line connecting downtown Shanghai with the city’s airport, would license the technology to the American vendors and Cummings said the trains and guideways would be manufactured in Las Vegas, creating 13,000 jobs.
• Tom Bordeaux, senior transportation manager for Parsons, the engineering company partner, said the Transrapid system is designed to last 80 years with no major maintenance. Traditional trains need to have steel rails replaced about every seven years because of the pounding high-speed trains give them in their thousands of annual trips. Bordeaux also said Parsons would develop the Anaheim Regional Transportation Intermodal Center, the proposed terminus of the maglev line and a station where all of Southern California’s transportation systems – light rail, commuter trains and buses – would converge.
• While some critics have said maglev is unproven, Walter Buss, president of Transrapid International USA, said the Shanghai system already has traveled 4.1 million miles, carrying 20 million passengers, and it has a 99.8 percent on-time operating efficiency.
• One-way tickets on the maglev between Las Vegas and Anaheim are proposed to cost $55, comparable to today’s airline fares and the pricetag estimated by DesertXpress for its service.
• Cummings said the maglev project has support in Southern California because the line would link Anaheim with Ontario International Airport, an underused facility east of Los Angeles. With Los Angeles International and Anaheim’s John Wayne Airport at or near capacity, Ontario could be better utilized and passengers could access it on the maglev from Anaheim within minutes.
• Cummings said the proposed maglev route would not traverse the Mohave National Preserve, a National Park Service-administered area south of Las Vegas. The entire route, he said, would use Department of Transportation right-of-way or Bureau of Land Management property and imminent domain would not be pursued. One of the DesertXpress route proposals would cut through a small piece of the Mohave National Preserve.
• Cummings said the lack of progress on maglev that frustrated Sen. Harry Reid enough to make him switch allegiance earlier this year to the DesertXpress was the result of a lack of high-speed rail policy leadership within the federal government. He added that he is proud of the progress the maglev plan has made in the last year after President Obama emphatically stated that high-speed rail is a priority for his administration.
Discussion: 42 comments so far…
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For those not familiar with what exactly this Maglev is, take a look at these videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8nazrmtu...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJvq-DMez...
This nation must enter the 21st century with gravity and not wheels. Let's levitate!
The DesertXpress is a train to nowhere. The only thing it has going for it is a Senate Majority Leaders fighting for his political life.
By backing the train to nowhere harry Reid takes out a previously major supporter of Republican candidates and puts his money in Reid's two election camps.
The support switch by harry Reid and his boy are just pay to play politics structured right in front of our eyes. The DesertXpress deserves none of our taxes and the Reid's deserve none of our support. It's disgusting the way politics are running these days.
@neiman1: completely true. I'd add, however, that I'm even more frustrated by such political maneuvers that hinder new technologies that would be profitable for us all.
How about just building tracks to Baker, and let people change there... it would be so much "cheaper"... The DesertXpress will be the DesertedXpress... what a dumb idea... Senator Reid, just say no!
MAGLEV it is..what So Cal person wants to drive to Victorville? No One, Anaheim is where its at for convenience.
Hey Maglev - Get the MOUSE behind it with you and it will happen.
retiredyoungster-
Good idea. If Disney gets on board, everything changes. Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez (D-Anaheim) would probably jump on board, and it wouldn't take too much persuasion to get the two Democratic California Senators (Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer) to get on board if they saw that California really wants Maglev. And at that point, Harry Reid, Shelley Berkley, and Dina Titus would have to reconsider abandoning Maglev since they'd then be up against the entire California delegation (or at least the Democrats who are sane).
Surmoka-
True. However, "Luv Guv" Gibbons did us no favor by lying about the $45 million that Maglev was supposedly supposed to receive. Even if it were true, it would have been a mere drop in the bucket. But since that claim was not true, it may not be too long before Maglev is killed altogether and it would all be due to Gibbon's stupid rage over Sig Rogich abandoning him for real, effective leaders like Harry Reid.
Reid needs to return the cash (bribe) he's taken to back the train to nowhere and get back on the maglev. While that's business as usual for Pinky, he will be left at the station come re-election time... but he will be richer (no surprise).
Let's see, there still is that unsolved problem of getting a mag train over those steep mountains of southern California. Apparently it would take so much energy, it wouldn't be worth it. I'll bet the builders of this train are scamming the public so they can get a juicy tax break from the Santa Claus, I mean Obama Administration. I doubt there will ever be a mag train. Stupid idea.
Neither of the projects will ever be built. California Environmentalist will never allow their lands to be disturbed. Until then these two groups are wishing in one hand and crapping in the other. Reid on the other hand is kowtowing to the media and special interest groups showing support knowing his party will never allow construction. Democrats and their lunatic environmental policies have choked growth and have added untold trillions to the cost of construction; nobody can afford to build large scale projects anymore.
Change the lunatic laws and create a balance so growth can occur then just maybe the rail might have a chance, until then, the rail is dead in its tracks.
DesertXpress is nothing but money in Sig Rogich's pocket.
At the NEXT DesertXpress meeting, raise your hand and ask how money Rogich stands to make on the DesertXpress deal?
If the whole idea of the rail system comes to light,as it has been proposed,it is in itself a very good idea.But with all the impact studies,and the enviromental groups,the polititions,it will be way too costly to even draw up the plans!Maglev to Anahiem,with a stop in Victorville.A light rail from L.A. to Palmdale.That line can continue on up to the north.Then a monorail from Victorville to Palmdale.Would put ALOT of people back to work,and may just help the ozone in the long run???
The Harry Reid solution, the "Train To Nowhere", is getting a whopping 8% approval in the voting.
Good job listening to your constituants, Senator Reid!!!!!!
Thanks, Surmoka for posting the Youtube links. I'm new to the Vegas area, but this seems like a interesting idea. When it comes to choosing between the two, it seems like a no-brainer to me: the Maglev train is forward-looking, could conceivably be self-sustained with solar and/or wind power along the route, and is far more desirable in terms of the expected destinations.
As for whether the train would be successful, I'm concerned about cost. The cost of riding the train would have to be competitive with the costs currently associated with driving the route. Consumers would love to save time in transit, but they also lose the flexibility and convenience of having a car with them on their trip. I doubt if many people are going to pay double what it takes in gas to drive their cars here just to save two hours of time each way.
Consider this: A car full of people spreads the costs of travel over several passengers. A round-trip from Vegas to Anaheim is just about 500 miles. If a vehicle gets about 25 mpg and gas runs $3.00 per gallon, then the total gas costs are about $60 per vehicle. (You can add some wear and tear costs, but (1) they're not significant and (2) most consumers won't factor those costs into the drive.) That $60 is spread over anywhere from 2 to 4 people for the average vehicle making the trip. When you spread the $60 over 2 people, it's $30 per person. If you've got 4 people in your car, they'd "paying" about $15 per person to make the trip. If a family of 4 wants to take the Maglev to Vegas (or from Vegas to Anaheim), could they do it for anything close to $60? If not, then I suspect that a lot of consumers would be driving the same route even with the Maglev option available because of the costs. Have we heard what tickets might cost for a round-trip ticket?
Sunlizard brings up a good point with elevation problems and high-speed transit. Do we know what Maglev has said regarding that issue? Do we know what elevation changes exist in the Chinese and German Maglev equivalents?
Also, Retiredyoungster brings up a good point with regards to getting Disney on board. Not only would a Maglev from Anaheim to Las Vegas do extremely well and bring California tourists to Vegas, but California would benefit greatly from Vegas residents who'd snatch up annual passes at Disney and jump at the chance to go play with the Mouse and enjoy the other amenities of Anaheim (e.g., LAA Angels, Anaheim Ducks, beach). Anaheim's largest industry is tourism, so both ends of the track would likely benefit equally.
Sunlizard: you couldn't be more wrong. Maglev can negotiate the challenging terrain of the Cajon Pass, in fact maglev is the only train-like system capable of climbing 10 percent steep grades. And no matter what transportation system you use, it must still climb over those mountains, be it your car, paddle wheel or steam bicycle.
Maglev, when properly deployed, uses regenerative braking, which means that upon slowing down, the trainset turns its kinetic energy into electricity and feeds it back into the power lines. This essentially returns most of the power used up for climbing uphill. The higher you go, the more energy you win back when descending.
And that's not considering to use the maglev track surface for photovoltaic cells. A medium quality photovoltaic layer can supply enough power for trains travelling at 310mph with a 10 minute frequency. Just think about it.
@Newcomer: you raise good points but it's easy to dissolve your concerns. No car ride gives you the thrill of flying on the ground at over 310 miles per hour. This alone will attract a number of passengers. And while you're right about ticket prices having to be competitive, one has to take into consideration that a maglev will get you there in about 1/5 of the time required for car travel. That can practically save you the day.
The LV-LA line, if it gets built, will be a major tourist attraction by itself as the world's first intercity maglev route. When constructing a transportation connection, secondary benefits far surpass any income from ticket prices. You can't exactly measure economic growth boosted by the new train line but you get the idea. Work opportunities and economy flourishes in regions that are well connected.
By the way, the youtube videos I posted were recorded by myself so I know it first hand.
For technical questions, please refer to the manufacturer's site where compelling videos help you understand how the system works and what it is capable of: http://www.transrapid.de/cgi-tdb/en/basi... (look under "FAQ").
A 300 mile MagLev project seems like a big risk considering the technology has never been proven beyond forty miles and that the Shanghai system kept breaking down during the Summer Olympics while the rest of the world was watching.
Putting political demagoguery aside, in terms of job creation and economic benefit to our city doesn't a $4B project with proven technology scheduled to start next March seem like a better idea than a $12B project with un-proven technology that has no scheduled start date?
As far as the "train to nowhere" debate goes, Victorville is about an hour from most LA, San Diego and Anaheim residents. So that means the Park & Ride system is relatively convenient for approx. 30 million people altogether. Anaheim would be a Park & Ride system, so why not Victorville?
This is an important debate and one that should not be clouded by political prejudices.
It's the second time I see this lie about the Shanghai Maglev "breaking down" during the Olympics.
IT'S A FOOKIN' LIE.
The Shanghai Maglev has broken down ONCE since its operation started, and that breakdown was caused by the Chinese when they tampered with the cables, trying to steal the technology and they caused a minor fire. Aside that, the Shanghai Maglev has been operating with 100% reliability which makes its track record at about 99.98% so far, with its cumulative delay being under 1 second over entire operating days. It's the single most reliable transport connection in the world, hands down.
By the way, do you really think Victorville is one hour by car from LA? Have you ever tried maintaining your usual 1-hour drive speed in constant traffic congestion?
Suroka, thanks for all the information. I agree with VegasVeniceDude that political paranoia and bias should be shelved for the purpose of having a logical discussion about the costs/benefits of any high-speed system and about the difference between the two options.
It seems like some are thinking of this as a one-way deal where California residents are the only ones who are using the service to come visit Vegas. What about the Las Vegans who want to visit Anaheim? What are they going to do when they get to Victorville?
Personally, I think the Victorville option is a dealbreaker. Vegas to Anaheim - on the other hand - with some public transportation on the ground at each end (e.g., buses, taxis, free shuttles running from the train station to common destinations) would virtually eliminate the need to rent a vehicle in either location.
Victorville would necessitate a car rental which increases the costs and reduces the time saved in transit.
I don't get all the attention on magnetic levitation. It's a relatively untried technology in this country and costs over $10 billion more than the other project.
With DesertXpress being that much less expensive, don't you think it is highly possible to connect it's terminus to other areas of California and in the future connect to their intra-state system? Plus, it has the ability to integrate into Park and Ride like one of the posters before me stated. (good point, btw)
The biggest plus for the rival plan (DesertXpress) is that it will start construction early next year. That's job for Nevadans and its jobs soon.
Why would we want to keep wasting time and money on mag-lev when we have tried-and-true rail technology available?
In response, I'd rather see something that takes a few more years to develop but will improve speed, be self-sufficient in terms of energy, and will apply the latest in technology for the long-run benefit.
I don't know why people are concerned about magnetic levitation technology in the United States. If it has worked in China and in Germany, then I don't think magnetic forces would be so different in the southwestern United States as to make this intractable. Many of the engineers who built the existing Maglev systems would likely work on this one, so we'd benefit from lessons learned and mistakes made in previous versions.
I agree that we want jobs now in NV, but I also believe that if a job is worth doing, it's worth doing right. Other than being cheaper and having a more immediate start date, I don't see any other advantages to DesertXpress.
@NVArrowhead: don't be deceived by that $4 billion proposition for the DesertXpress. It has no chance to get build from that sum but its proponents know if they already got the deal there's no way for the investors to back out when "unexpected cost rise" occurs mid-time. That's it.
Besides that, the maglev track is designed to be significantly longer, is a lot faster and needs WAAAY less maintenance. It's the maintenance costs of rail infrastructure that burden your budget in the long run. Don't make the mistake of taking only capital cost into account; in fact, operating and maintenance costs are far more important.
Since UPRR isn't prepared to sell any of its Colton right of way to the California High Speed Rail Authority, it's looking increasingly likely that the phase 2 spur from LA to San Diego will use the medians of CA-60, CA-57, I-10 and I-15 instead. There will be NO right of way for maglev between Ontario/Colton and LA/Anaheim.
Repeat: maglev will NEVER reach LA nor Anaheim.
California has chosen steel wheels HSR. It doesn't matter what you think of Sig Rogich or Harry Reid, Nevada's only chance of DIRECT high speed rail service for Las Vegas to LA/Anaheim as well as SF and later on, Sacramento and San Diego, is to fall in line and choose electrified steel wheels at 220-240mph cruise speed through the desert. Compatible technology, a connector between Mojave and Barstow and trackage rights are all that is needed.
Figure 2 hours for LV-LA, 2.5 for LV-Anaheim, 4 for LV-SF, 3.5 for LV-Sac. LV-SD would be more like 4 due to the circuitous route, so modal share for that city pair may be too low to justify direct service. A dedicated HSR shortcut between Victorville and Colton/Ontario could be added at a later date, but only at great expense. Until then, the terminus at Victorville would serve San Bernardino, Riverside etc. while everyone else would ride the direct trains from LA/Anaheim/SF/Sac instead.
Please engage grey matter.
@rafael: if California has chosen steel wheel HSR, then why are we discussing here? And why is LV Sun posting a maglev article just about every week?
Because California has NOT chosen steel wheel HSR, that's why. There is no decision yet.
And your indicative statements don't qualify for any kind of argumentation.
In a fair race, no HSR can come close to be a competitor for Maglev. That's why policital lobbies are your only chances to derail the maglev before it can get built and threaten your rail interests.
And no HSR can cross the mountains at LA; that's why the HSR proposal ends at Victorville. It WILL NOT go any further from there, especially not to Anaheim/LA.
I refuse to take a train to Victorville.
I will take one to Anaheim for a ball game or Disneyland though!
Anyone that is not behind the Meglev must have forgotten that gas prices tend to rise and when they do again, you may lose you job and your house.
Every stop on the Meglev has a chance to become a boom town as well as Las Vegas once again as people will have easy access to jobs in any city. Just imagine leaving work and taking a quick ride home to Prim or Victorville or Los Angeles.
Business owners will be able to expand to bigger markets.
You can attend USC, UCLA, etc while living in Las Vegas.
Tourist can make last second decision to come to town anytime they want without being charged higher prices by plane.
There is a ton of other benefits of the Meglev while the Desert Express is garbage.
As a democrat, there is no way I vote for Harry Reid if the Desert Express continues to be in his favor as that means he isn't in it for Nevadans.
Come on - very few of the folks one here will ever get into the train even if it is built. Some of the other computations about the relative costs try to say that one shouldn't count that driving a car cost upwards of 55 cents a mile for newer vehicles and certainly 40 cents or so for a 6 or 7 year old car. Do the math - people need to seriously consider not driving and using their transportation funds in other ways! Until they do the discussion is not relevant. Planes, trains, and automobiles! come on we need the train and the desert express is more likely to happen! The train needs to get underway - it may be made to go further than victorville!
Look no further then the Las Vegas Monorail:
Compromise destinations=Failure
@revtomperl: the train planned at Victorville can not extend further due to technical reasons. The DesertXpress is a dead end and only good for "proving" that trains are "unfeasible" in the USA.
With a bad project you can ruin all good ideas.
Driving is by no means competitive with the Maglev. Go see the videos I've linked in the first comment on this thread and you'll understand what I mean.
@ surmoka -
California most certainly did choose steel wheels for its *own* HSR system last November.
Those trains will cross several mountain ranges in tunnels. Maglev can handle larger gradients, but passenger comfort limits feasible vertical curve radii. That means you still need tunnels for maglev.
What I'm warning you about is that maglev to Anaheim is a mirage. It can't happen because there will be nowhere to put it west of either Colton or Ontario (depending on the route CHSRA ends up with with for the LA-San Diego leg).
Get informed before you sound off. You may be blinded by shiny maglev baubles and Nevada politics, but I'm actually trying to help Las Vegas get connected.
The train will never occur in our lifetime. For those who live in California then this will make sense; the Environmental Impact Study hasn't even started and will take a minimum of 20 years to complete. California lunatics have made it virtually impossible to construct a project of this size in their desert that the cost to complete the EIR will exceed the cost to construct the rail.
You can say with certainty to Reid "YOU LIE" because he knows good and well that his lip service and kowtowing to the media is a lie.
good for them go forward...NO ONE WILL RIDED THAT DESERT XPRESS......
@rafael: it's not up to maglev if feasible endpoints can get realized or not. In fact, maglev is easier to thread in and out of busy terrains since it takes a lot less land land than any other train.
You can call me a dreamer if I think it can get built but it's only a matter of will. You can build maglev's entirely new infrastructure anywhere you want, even in downtowns. All you need to do so is will.
@Neiman1 -- Get the facts straight. The Maglev is the train to nowhere. If it is ever built -- its first phase is only to Primm. They are not doing any environmental or engineering work in California. DesertXpress goes 200 miles into California with its first phase with a future extension only 50 miles west to Palmdale connecting to all of California with metrolink and the CA HSR system.
Rogich has supported Reid for 30 years -- including the 20 years Reid backed Maglev. This has everything to do with what makes the most sense. The next generation high speed rail is the future -- Maglev is dead -- just look at China -- the only country in the world to implement Maglev just ordered 4 billion dollars worth of steel wheel trains
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=n...
And look at Germany -- the country that developed Maglev 30 years ago -- they don't have a system either.
@Surmoka -- There is no way the Maglev can be profitable at $12B of capital costs and even that huge number is a fraction of what public agencies have estimated it will really cost. China decided not to extend their system because it is a financial disaster.
@Retired Youngster -- Guess what -- 11 million people drove by Victorville last year on their way to Las Vegas -- it is the natural collection point of all east/west freeways in the Los Angeles basin. The real question is -- who would drive to Anaheim and how will they possibly fit all the parking they would need to make the station work?
@Itstohot -- You're right on about the environmental issues -- that's why building in the I-15 is so important to minimize environmental impacts. How is Maglev ever going to be able to stay inside the freeway into Anaheim -- the roads are all built out. They will have to buy up the houses and businesses along the freeway -- never going to happen.
If Maglev is such a great idea and the supporters will make so much money building it - why haven't they invested their own money like DesertXpress has over the last 4 years since they got their 45M.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2005/aug...
They've already gotten 11 million in federal funds - why spend more tax money? Let them spend their own money like DesertXpress and may the best project win.
I think that Patty and Rafael either work for the DesertXpress or Reid. Surmoka obviously works for the Maglev so all 3 of their comments are meaningless.
I am a lifelong Nevadan that used to fly to LAX for $49 roundtrip and then hitchhike or take a shuttle to John Wayne airport just to get to Huntington/Newport Beaches on the weekend. I know for a fact that IF you can build the Maglev to Anaheim it will make more money than DesertXpress going into Victorville and having to make connections.
Just take a look at the Vegas monorail for proof that when you build something that doesn't actually go anywhere people need (airport/Victorville)it will end up being a bust.
Does anyone else think it is weird that Harry happened to switch his opinion in line with Sig's during a tough re-election year? Who is the chair of Republicans (RINOs) for Reid? Oh yeah, Sig....
Mag-Lev is certainly the way to go.
Get the technology and jobs flowing.
I live in Shanghai and the mag-lev train works just fine. It's become something of a tourist attraction in its own right.
Problem is that it is also a boondoggle, as it only travels from the airport to a subway station on the outskirts of Shanghai. From there to downtown, one must either take a taxi 30 minutes or schlep down into the subway, and then when you get out of the subway (with bags) you'll still need a taxi.
The other problem is that the maglev only runs for 12 minutes, so it hits its top speed for all of 35 seconds before it must start slowing down again. I will say that the 99.8% on-time rate cited is very suspicious, since I've taken the mag-lev 4 times and once it was late. It's supposed to run every 15 minutes. But we once waited 30 minutes for it to arrive, and then after it did, we had to wait another 15 minutes until the doors opened to let us on, then another 5+ until it actually left. There was clearly some problem, which was a hassle when you have a plane to catch. But it is a smooth, quiet and comfortable ride
Maglev is best for long treks, such as that proposed from SoCal to Las Vegas. The Chinese Gov't had planned to build a mag-lev from Beijing to Shanghai (about 800 miles, roughly the same distance s NY to Chicago), but the plan got scrapped after a number of years on the drawing board as it was deemed to be too expensive.
I'm wondering how many stops the proposed Desert MagLev would make. I'd assume very few so it can run at top speed most of the way. But the article mentions stopping at the one local SoCal airport. An early stop in either direction wouldn't be too bad, as it would be before a high speed was reached. And it seems there would be little or nothing to stop for midway anyway.
Any projections on the total cost.
As a new resident to Las Vegas I have seen the devastation from the recession to this City from an outside view.What is the solution and what can the State do to boost the economy here.
Either the Maglev and or the Desert Express would be a great start as long as the contracts went to local companies.The Desert Express is second on my list do to the destination point in California.If both systems were proposed to Anaheim there would only be one more opposition to the Desert Express and that would it be enviromentaly friendly.So I lean my support to the MagLev.
I would definately use the system to travel to Cali. as long as it went to a destination thesable to travel to.Anahiem is a much better location and would have a larger population that could support the system.
If these plans come to reality then do it right.
The economic impact for both states would be positive.My only question is why havent they not already started the project.Why doesnt Harry Reid push this puppy on through instead of worrying about some useless health care bill that will destroy this country.Mr. Reid what about your state that put you in office for all these years.What about your home Mr.Reid?Oh yes Washington D.C. is your home now I forget when people get power they forget where they come from.Typical politician!!! Now Las Vegans support anything that will help jump start this economy.When your done building the MagLev or Desert Express start building it to Reno and Carson City so the whole state will benifit.
@Patty: just about everything you write is wrong, even it it has glimpses of truth in it.
1. Maglev in Germany: any person knowing the infrastructure in Germany knows why they don't have maglev and any person citing it as an argument against maglev doesn't know anything about German infrastructure. They have an extended railway network like almost no other country in the world, and most cities are already connected by high-speed rail connections. In this environment a completely incompatible system is a no-go. This is a no brainer. But this is not Maglev's fault.
2. Maglev in China: since it's significantly cheaper to operate and maintain than any other transport system, your argument about it being a financial disaster is nonsense. They didn't extend their maglev line YET because of political reasons: they are putting pressure on Germany and literally blackmailing them into selling the technology to China. The Chinese have tried to steal it for years but to no avail.
3. Capital costs: you're obviously no transportation expert. No sane person working on this field judges the viability of a transport connection by its capital costs. As a starting point, you have to assess its full lifetime costs where maglev already wins over HSR in about 5 years on flat terrain whereas on challenging terrain it wins right from the start. And it's the secondary benefits that matter. If the endpoints are worth connecting to boost economic growth, capital costs practically sink into irrelevance. It all comes down to the viability of a transport corridor. The maglev's biggest advantage is that it can turn not-so-viable transport corridors into winning ones just by sheer speed.
@lvice: I'm (unfortunately) not working for maglev. I'm a railway engineer with enthusiasm towards maglev. That's because I've seen it, I've ridden it, I've been there, and I know it from the inside out as well as conventional rail technology. And the only aspect where maglev is not superior to regular rail is freight carrying capability. In other fields the competition doesn't even need to start.
By the way, you're trying to dismiss me because of your supposition of where I work. What is meaningless is your argumentation as long as you try to counter me instead of what I say.
@ Ivice -
FYI, I don't work for DX nor for Reid. You're making stuff up.
In fact, I think DX's decision to terminate in Victorville is a poor one, but at least they would get the right technology as far as Barstow. From there, a fairly cheap connector along CA-58 would make their system actually useful.
As for Harry Reid, I think he's been a fairly terrible senate majority leader. The constitution says 50 senators + the VP are enough to pass a bill, why allow the US Senate to override that with arcane procedural rules?
What I do is write for the California High Speed Rail Blog, purely as a hobby. I would like to see Las Vegas connected to the California network someday, but that requires planners to think in terms of integrated transportation systems instead of bureaucratic fiefdoms.
http://cahsr.blogspot.com/2009/03/hooray...
@rafael: conventional HSR technology has absolutely no advantages over Maglev regarding passenger transport.
You can't change it, all you can do is face it.
@ surmoka -
in the specific case of Las Vegas to California, steel wheels has one very distinct advantage: there is at least an *opportunity* to build it such that it will get you where you want to go, i.e. LA, Anaheim, SF Bay Area, Sacramento and San Diego.
Maglev will get you from Las Vegas to Primm at 300mph instead of 220mph. Huzzah!
When are you going to understand that this decision isn't going to be based on the merits of one technology over another? You can rail (sic) against California all you want, but in that state the *political* reality is that maglev is deader than a dead dodo. It just isn't going to happen there.
Betamax was better than VHS, too. It didn't matter.