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twitterLetter to the Editor:
Deportations could cut unemployment
Monday, Sept. 21, 2009 | 2:01 a.m.
I recently read that unemployment is at 13 percent in Nevada, but I have also read that illegal immigrants make up 12 percent of the Nevada workforce.
Here is an idea: Deport illegal immigrants and create 12 percent more jobs for out-of-work citizens, who should have priority for these jobs anyway. Nevada could then boast the lowest unemployment rate in the country. It always amazes me that common sense is so uncommon in government.
Discussion: 100 comments so far…
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Arthur, interesting idea you have, but do you really believe that the "home grown" citizens would do the jobs that the illegals are doing now, perhaps you should also use some common sense
uddeboda, the writer has it right not you...
Why is it you elitists always say that citizens and lawful residents would not do the jobs the illegals are doing? How about giving it a try?
If certain jobs can not be filed by those who have a RIGHT to work, then the employer can apply for non-immigrant worker visas to fill the vacancies?
The writer has it right, thats your opinion, I could also be right.
From what one reads on these forums, I also get the impression that the "illegals" come over to do the Shi##y jobs, that others wont do, am I not right??
Just like the old adage - would you clean outhouses for $100 an hour? Yes? Well, we have established that you'll do the work, now we need to figure out the pay scale.
Hey uddeboda...
I hope you didn't come over to this forum to get things right. That just doesn't happen around here.
After a while, some of the loons around here will try to convince you that they are seeing flying pigs...
But, back to your story... We will never know who will work for what without trying...
Wow, seven words starting with a "w" in one sentence.
udde, You are wrong. On the construction site I'm working now the majority of laborers are illegals. 2 weeks ago I noticed an american citizen working as a loborer. I walked over to him and told him that it was good to see a citizen working as a laborer for a change. He told me because of the illegals working at his trade he has not had work for 8 months. Mr. boda what you may consider a s**t job may save an american and his family from poverty. Of course you not being an American citizen by birth maybe you don't realize that the ones spouting that Americans won't do jobs illegals do are the ones looking to destroy our middle class by allowing and not enforcing these federal lawbreakers to continue what they are doing.
Mr. boda are you a legal citizen of the United States?
udde, why do you think the jobs are s**ty? because with illegals in the mix, a supply & demand situation has been created that allows employers to cut salaries to too low, and not to have to pay for basic benefits such as workmen's comp
it's not the jobs that are s**ty, it's the scummy employers that hire these people as slave labor that are s**ty.
when i was growing up men could make a living doing construction jobs of the type now done by illegals. (now i wouldn't live in one of those houses.) as i said, it's not the jobs that are s**ty...
When I first got out of high school many years ago a lot of us young men whould like to go the construction trades. Back then they were all union controled but it was difficult to get in unless you knew someone. The work was difficult but the pay was very good and they worked most of the time except for a few weeks in winter. None of us considered it s**t work but a good occupation.
Are young men less ambitious now? I think only a few are and I think if the illegals were gone and apprenticeships were available the young men would jump at the chance to work in construction trades.
I know several young men who are struggling for a decent job. They are working part time in fast food, retailing, and a few service jobs and make minimum wages They have trouble getting the number of hours they need to survive on.
I don't believe for a minute that Americans would not take most of the jobs that the illegas take. The employers might have to pay more but that's the way things go. I don't advocating deporting them either, just crack down and make life hell for the people who employ them and let them return to their own country on their own.
hey art...
deportation is not an option...
you can cry about it all you want...
but it is too simplistic...
so...
if you want to have a realistic conversation...
so be it...
but your little rant above...
is just plain old pathetic!!!
As a native Nevadan, i have watched our elected representatives time and time again, ignore the pleas of the legal citizens to do something about illegal immigration. Their actions and desires are clear. I recently watch on Channel 2 the Clark County Commission grant a liquor license to a Latino couple who could not even answer the commissions questions, including what their name was. This followed a debate on how to best manage events at Sunrise park. I have friends and family out of work. I ate at a casino the other night and almost all the employees in the dining establishment were speaking Spanish. We are screwed until our elected officials have the desire and ability to uphold the law, both nationally and statewide. If the laws were enforced, illegals would not have the ability to take jobs that legal citizens could use right now.
from arthur,, at you people who claim americans wont do these jobs, why not?? i have picked pears, shoveled mud, laid brick,, you cant speak for other people, only they can, i am sick of you people saying what jobs others wiil and wont take,, they decide not you,, maybe you wont take it but another person might, i have many friends that would love any job right now,
I will vote Republican for food. All this talk makes me hungry for a taco.
I am going to grab my hard hat and hit the construction sites, sell some homemade salsa to the workers over there. Good point about immigration issues and violations. It's not a matter of whose right. It's whose left. Construction? in this economic storm of overbuilding on top of overbuilding, foreclosures number 2 in the nation. And we are building more houses? Waiter, check please!!
and to to the others,, thanks for you support,, I KNOW I AM RIGHT
Strange, but I haven't ever noticed any gringos standing in front of Home Depot waiting for a chance to put in some nice healthy day labor. Did I miss some of you guys, or were you in disguise?
Just because one is Hispanic, does not mean one is an illegal immigrant.
The great majority of Hispanic legal residents and citizens are law abiding residents. Some also need jobs.
If I knew which ones were legal, I would give them some small jobs...
larry said;
"If I knew which ones were legal, I would give them some small jobs..."
Wow! Did he really say that?
Is that what constitutes "compassionate Conservatism"?
Hey everyone, gmager is alive and well. I will have to phone and cancel the flowers.
But gmager, I would pay them in cash as to not effect their taxes.
My heart is full of "compassionate Conservatism" and my willingness to help those who help themselves.
Hey gmager, did you hear that Wolfy got hit in the head by a flying pig this morning? He is a little dazed but will come through all right. He will be back on line as soon as he showers. He said he did not know that pigs could fly backwards...
hey stan,, i have,, and been to day labor to stand in a line,,
There is enough homegrown citizens willing to do jobs that illegals do.But illegals do it at prices that are below minimum wage. If corporations could pay that low willingly, they would.
Math dictates it would help the economy! I can't beleive there's a negetive article on illegals, What a shock!
Illegal immigrants ARE NOT COUNTED in unemployment statistics. Therefore deporting all illegal immigrants will do nothing for the unemployment rate.
And even if they vacate jobs and legal residents and citizens are able to take them few will on the grounds that the jobs do not pay relatively well. This means to fill the jobs wages will have to increase or the job will have to be mechanized. If the wage increases then there is less money to create fewer jobs than when the illegal's held them. This means unemployment will go down only slightly.
@ patrick they have to pay atleast the amount that will cover food and rent that illegals pay to feed and house themselves, and yes the percentage of the workforce and unemployment percent is counted in
Patrick,
I don't know if anyone knows for sure what "deporting all illegal immigrants" would do to the unemployment rate.
But, I say, let's try it and see what happens. If there are not enough legal workers to fill the positions, institute a non-immigrant worker visa program.
If ICE could concentrate on a state or two, then we would have an idea of the effect of losing illegal workers.
Anyway, what do I know except that ULVMed lost 114.3 million dollars last year to those considered here illegally.
Sounds like this idea is far too smart for the citizens in this city.
Morons like EL LOBO that hire illegals wouldn't stand for this.
How can they count illegals for unemployment stats when they can only estimate the number of illegals here? Deporting illegals is not an option. All your doing is paying for their vacation back to home! as long as the borders (north and south) are open then they will always come back to the companies that hire them. This writer's suggestion won't work, but it sure sounds good and it did make it on the editor think!
If you give one of those so called "shi* Jobs" to an legal citizen, all they would do is quit when something better comes along, Then would start whining about pay and want to sue the employer or organize into a labor union.
Then you would have people complaining about service, or "Whaaaa!, I need someone to cut my grass, or wipe my a@@, Whaaa!!!"
Strictly enforcing the immigration law does and will work.
The secret is ENFORCEMENT by:
All units of government that put illegal immigrants in a "protective sanctuary status" should be sued and fined by the U.S.Government.
Start holding employers liable for hiring undocumented workers.
Verify immigration status of students, hospital patients and people applying for assistance.
Immediately deport all illegal aliens when encountered.
dt0702:
Why don't you list those jobs that you don't think a legal resident or a citizen would perform and we can discuss your claim then. Thanks...
Never said they wouldn't take them I said @ 2:43 pm:
"If you give one of those so called "shi* Jobs" to an legal citizen, all they would do is quit when something better comes along, Then would start whining about pay and want to sue the employer or organize into a labor union."
Ok, I get it now, dt0702...
But isn't "quitting when something better comes along" part of our work standard?
Sometimes "something better" does not come along. Particularly if the worker does not improve themselves.
If unemployment compensation and some of the entitlement programs are reduced or go away, maybe it won't be so hard to fill these "entry level" positions.
Years and years ago, I worked a short time on the back of a garbage truck until I could find a better job. And you know what? Looking back just maybe that was not such a bad job after all.
1) Nevada could implement its own version of "Real ID" & "eVerify" and then penalize employers who hire illegals (employers would have a 90 day probationary period to run the check).
2) We'd also have to agree that a NV "Real ID" would be required to receive any NV state benefits (welfare, unemployment, medicaid), with the applicant having a 90 day probationary period to obtain a "Real ID".
3) Finally, mandate local law enforcement pass on to ICE anyone arrested for a felony or violent misdemeanor without a "Real ID". Held for 72 hours to give ICE time to act.
There are no jobs Americans won't do, there never were. Only jobs Americans won't do for slave wages.
But having written all that, I also think there has to be some way to accommodate those who genuinely want to remain here and want to contribute. We simply can't force them all out or all underground. I'm not sure where to draw the line, but I think there's definitely a need for a line somewhere between "citizenship for all" and "deport everyone". Maybe for those with minors born here, a legal sponsor, or could prove they'd been here for three years or more without trouble, and who are willing to be honest about who they really are and where they're from, a provisional "Real ID" that would meet the employment requirement for a "Real ID" but not the State benefits requirement might be appropriate.
While the Federal government is primarily responsible for the immigration mess, the State is not without the ability to at least affect a partial solution.
Where did this figure of 12% illegal immigrants come from? In 2007 The Pew Hispanic Center estimated there were in Nevada 643,358 Hispanics amounting to 25.1% of the state's 2,565,382 population. Surely half of these are not illegal. Speaking Spanish does not make one illegal. Why the exaggeration? I suspect it is to detract attention from other more serious problems.
Larry wants it both ways.
He wants to yell and kick and scream about illegal immigrants and tell us that they all need to be deported...
But he would yell and kick and scream if we had to raise taxes to support that enforcement.
Poor Larry.
at skeptic,, that percentage came from the very paper you are reading, thats where i got it from
edgewise, the money is already there to enforce and deport, they just have to do it, why pay ice for not enforcing the laws
1. Let them work here on a work visa
2. Take 50% of their wages for taxes
3. Force Obamacare on them
4. Force english courses on them
As a resault:
1. They will still make more than they did in their own country
2. All the money they send out of this country will be kept here.
Enforcement of the existing immigration laws including deportation of illegal aliens is already budgeted in the budget of the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).
ICE has enough assets already in place to perform regular deportation actions.
There would be NO massive roundup of illegal aliens. As aliens are encountered they would be deported just as they are doing currently.
NOW, The secret is stepped up ENFORCEMENT by:
All units of government that put illegal immigrants in a "protective sanctuary status" would be required to notify ICE whenever an illegal alien is encountered.
Start holding employers liable for hiring undocumented workers.
Verify immigration status of students, hospital patients and people applying for assistance.
Immediately deport all illegal aliens when encountered.
Cost increases would be directly related to the increase in the number of deportation cases.
How much? I don't know, but I bet the 114.3 million dollars that the UNLVMed Center lost on treating illegals would go a long way just to remove those in the Las Vegas area.
The UNITED STATES will NEVER be solvent as long as the border is left to be violated! Name me one good thing we couldn't live without? I know, Racist, Bigot Etc.......That's the best you can do Spock? Please tell me how a third world influx helps anything or anybody. Bush allowed the border to be open for the most part which made him a champion for the illegal, This president will do the same. Assimilation will never happen, Just the reverse! This country is being shoved into the same standards the illegals love so much!
We are not out of the recession. In fact, we are headed into a full-blown depression. And when it happens, none of us should have the nerve to act surprised.
When that depression really gets going, the age of consumption in the U.S. (and the world) will be over, and a lower standard of living will prevail.
When it does, those "jobs Americans won't do" ... well, just wait. Americans will be dying to do those jobs to feed themselves and their kin. And it's going to get ugly. Got ammo?
Yes, NO, Well maybe.
To those if you who dream of deportation, I have some troubling news for you: there are at a minimum 12 million "illegals" (probably the most childish epithet I've ever heard uttered) in the United States, and, as George Lopez put it so succinctly, they "ain't goin' nowhere!". The sheer volume of manpower alone required to locate, track, apprehed and extradite non-citizens does not exist, I'm sorry to inform you. In addition, a wall won't work either. Tunnels, submersibles and other clever trafficking methods aside, the greatest route of entry to the US is actually a legal one, albeit temporary in design and a bit more enduring than that in reality: recent estimates show roughly 40% or more of illegal immigrants to be card holders who overstay their visas. They come to work, and they decide they're quite fond of the place, especially in comparison to Mexico.
It is with the acception of this irreversible trend that amnesty, either in limited practice only or as a full-blown, fence-jumping border rush frenzy free-for-all, emerges as a rational solution to the issue of non-citizens working alongside citizens.
However, the truth is most Conservative knee-jerk reactionaries in Vegas, watching their dreams implode around them, aren't actually worried about citizenship, or even tax revenue. They are of course worried about their jobs, which are looking leaner and less available by the day.
We're living in a largely globalist, free-trade environment, one in which you find yourself competing not only with compatriots but with the entire world. Get used to it.
And if your career is abruptly up-ended by a man you erroneously presumed would be limited to picking strawberries and preparing margaritas for life, think about a career change.
Employers will not pay the wages of these unskilled Americans. Add $14,000 a year in healthcare and why are you surprised? You are driving employers away from hiring Americans.
If you could force them they will go out of business. People should pay their own healthcare and stop expecting employers to do everything.
You guys that say I cant work because I dont speak spanish...LEARN! Stop being lazy. Bad enough all you can do is dishes, now we have to cater to your language. You are the deadbeats.
Nick, you are right.
This has been the most anti-job and anti-business president ever.
So Scottsdale, you would rather do nothing then enforce the immigration laws that are on the books?
Scott, poeple like you might relish in the fact that they are here to stay, You might be one yourself. Your cocky attiude seems to think we are stuck with you! As soon as the people start to understand the big picture, There will be change! By the way,Your man who says your here to stay is a product of the white man. Go figure.
ScottsdaleSun gets it. Plus imagine the economy after deporting 100,000 plus people! Think stores, restaurants, and apartmenmts are empty now, imagine that. Like we should disrupt the economy for unskilled people demanding healthcare and living wages to wash dishes and serve food. Gimme a break!
Let's Take the chance and see what happens!
Lets get rid of the lazy uneducated Americans and keep the hardworkers. Get your own healthcare. Pay your own way. Serving food is not a grown up job.
Hey nick! Just because your clients buy your act it doesn't mean we have to.
So Nick, whats the option? What would you do?
There would be NO massive roundup of illegal aliens. As aliens are encountered they would be deported just as they are doing currently.
The way to start is the President decide that he wants to rigidly enforce the immigration laws and issue the executive order.
I dont know. It is a tough issue. I think we all agree that more needs to be done at the border.
It is tough, But it needs to happen.
Anyone notice that the flow of illegal aliens has a lot in common with any other product. If you want to reduce it decrease the demand as well as reduce the supply. Want tobacco use to drop raise the price and educate the users (demand) while regulating the growers (supply).
Want to reduce illegals fine and jail time for employers (demand) while you enforce the border controls (supply). One without the other will be about as good as the "war on drugs" was at stopping inflow from South America.
the earth is for everyone. migration has been going on since man first came to earth. fake borders set up fake arguments and channel anger from the real issues to a group to hate. throughout history some group gets scapegoated for a populations ills (Gypsies, Jews, Blacks, Irish, etc) same tired argument, different point in time.
dt0702;
What's wrong with labor unions?
Socialism would fix and mute all these arguments of illegally and the need to fortify our boarders, checking, cross-checking problems and then again we might need the boarder guards to keep people in, not out. All this talk about how we could reduce our state's or America's unemployment by simply eliminating or hindering the continued increase of illegal/ undocumented immigrants into America is the path to Socialism, not Capitalism, which is how we got to where we are in the first place. Go back three years and see if anybody cared about all the cheap labor being handed down to undocumented or illegal's (as some like to say) when everyone employed in a blue collar job was rolling in the dough, and all our government/ city servants where gorging at the troth; I don't think so.
Socialism means all jobs would pay a living wage, right, and even the person who is serving up soup would make as much as the doctor doing open-heart surgery. We would all have the same benefits as the next guy, pay the same taxes, all things would be equal. Except, none of us would be able to pick anything we wanted, or choose any of our careers, or where we wanted to get services, or what we wanted to buy, or how much we wanted to buy, but hey, we wouldn't have to worry about all the illegal's now would we. Don't kid yourselves Americans are doing those jobs in the fields or cleaning up after everyone and have been for many years, only thing was, they had brown skin and never have been recognized as citizens.
Everyone would have thousand dollar bills instead of ten dollar bills in their pockets, and no one in America would be of a different class, there would be no high-class, no middle-class, no low-class, there would just be people without class, like what we are starting to see now with the elimination of the middle-class. The dream would be fulfilled, oh wait, now, we would need to eliminate all colors except for the chosen one, whichever one that one would be, we could all agree to have one language, and then there would be no need for the constitution for that matter. Hurrah! Ignorance actualized.
I am all for secure boarders and a country of laws, just not a country of cry-babies and pre-Madonna's. Now quit all the whining and everybody, I mean everybody, roll up your sleeves and go to work, break is over. America is the greatest County and regardless of who comes here, we all have and continue to make it so.
I would like to secure a boarder for my spare bedroom, who looks like the pre-Madonna, NOT that
current post-Madonna. THAT would be purdy nice. Wifey says "no".
Dadburn!
Ileegals are taking jobs that American won't work. That's BS. Teenagers cannot get a job because 25-40 yr old illegals are working those jobs. Get the illegals out of fast food restaurants and let our teenagers get a sence of worth and a headstart on responsibility. OH, I have heard it it ... who will work in the fields? LEGAL immigrants before them worked the fields ... the Irish, Italians, Japanese, etc. They earned the money, learned the language, sent their children to school and universities (then bought the land). They did not bring their children into the country .. illegally, to grow too adulthood and discover that they were not citizens, could not get a legal birth certificate because they were not born in the US, could not get a college education because their children could not produce evidence of birth, could not hold a LEGAL SS card, and had to continue to work for minimum wages. etc.etc. etc. The list goes on.
IF IT WERE TO COME DOWN TO MY FAMILY EATING,AND GOING WITHOUT,DONT MATTER WHAT JOB IT IS,MY FAMILY IS GONNA EAT!!! THATS WHATS WRONG WITH AMERICA TODAY.I WANT A JOB,BUT I WONT DO THAT WITHOUT TOP DOLLAR!!!!
So sorry to inform gmag that I already have my ad on Craig's List for the lady he mentioned.
Only problem being that if it she agreed,
then I would be then boarding with gmag.
Comment removed by staff.
Becaome a US citizen and you shall be granted job assistance!!!! Don't take away from me anymore!! I love man kind but also love this counrty!! You make me abide by laws and taxes than so should the people who want to work here!! Lifes a bitch!! How do you say that in spanish?? If illegals were deported that would probaly open up many landscaping jobs taken from americans that are continually undercut by illegals!! I don't think that illegals are the ones losing their homes around here!!!!!! Don't you have to be a US citizen to get a legitimate mortgage here?!?!! Get it yet people?! Money is going to Mexico every second, hour and day!! Stop the luting of our economy!!! IF you want to become an american citizen you better have a zip code to prove it!!!!!!
Hate to tell you this but just because a Hispanic is working at a fast food establishment (or anywhere else) does not mean he/she is illegal. There are plenty of legal Hispanics. In addition, the reason teenagers are having a difficult time finding a job is that minimum wage was increased. If you were an employer and had a choice between a 25 year old and a sixteen year old (you have to pay them the same wage) which one would you pick?
It's a shameful fact that most of the posters above are incapable of believing that a Hispanic may be in this country legally. The pseudo-patriots use "Hispanic" and "illegal" interchangeably, when they are not, infact, interchangeable.
" if illegals were deported that would probaly open up many landscaping jobs taken from americans that are continually undercut by illegals!! "
No way anybody could afford to hire a regular American. $14,000 in healthcare plus HIGH wages=no job.
You guys are chasing all the employers away. You are simply not worth it. If you need to raise a family get an education. No one will pay that much to get their grass cut. Serving food is not a grwon up job.
I'll hire undocumented anytime over the alternative.
Ah seen George Bush pickin' irradiated termaters in Scottsdale. Ah swears ah seen it!
"I'll hire undocumented anytime over the alternative." Which is precisely why employers need to be heavily fined. Real ID, eVerify, and heavy employer fines will dry up demand overnight. Then enforce the border -- supply dries up. All that's left is deporting the violent/predatory ones and assimilating the rest, which in a generation or two is a foregone conclusion.
Deportation will never occur, it isn't politically correct and the politicians on both sides moreover the democrats thought will never allow mass deportation.
What is going to occur when we do hit a full blown depression and Obama redistribution of wealth to their followers is a revolution restoring America. America is being destroyed by this idiot and lunatic followers and so many people are taking to the street in protest and they're not listening.
As you read through the replies you'll spot the liberals and read what these lunatics are saying. They're deadest on destroying normal people into their sick thought process. They've told the big lie for so many years they really believe that they are trying to convey and force feed down our throats. This goes to show just how stupid and desperate these people are. I have to wonder how we allowed this to occur and why we're letting these idiots ruin America and turn us into a socialist nation.
There should be daily flights deporting captured illegal aliens and exiling convicted violent American criminals to places like Afghanistan.
: )
Well Mr. High and Mighty Nick, you ought to move to their country and help support them. As I see it you are half the problem, hiring illegal aliens. Why don't you give us your true name? You're not afraid of getting fined by ICE for breaking federal laws, are you. I've been reading for months your comments in which you are in support of the illegals who are in our country. Are you a citizen of the United States? It seems your only solution is to hire illegals and if that is your only solution,and or belief of a solution, you can't be considered a citizen. Because a true citizen would fight for our rights to protect and uphold our laws, and you sir, seem not to care for the RED,WHITE and BLUE.
Oh please spare me the red white and blue drama. No one is going to continuing paying healthcare, workers comp, and huge salaries for menial labor. That is why USA lost manufacturing jobs. The white collar are next.
Get an education and work. If you love this country CONTRIBUTE! I am staying here you can go. You seem so unhappy. America love it or leave it.
Republicans wont deport these people either will dems. We need them. Face it.
Illegal immigrants are being deported every day and the number of deportees is increasing. ICE has been hiring new agents for several years now. Actually,they are still hiring and training new agents. Put your application in today, the pay is not too bad and there's plenty of job security.
Well here you go again Nick, you are the only one who is making this a drama,i.e. adding to the problem rather than trying to fix it. If you were an informed citizen, you would know that it wasn't the fact that wages, med. ins,etc. was to blame for the outsourcing of our industries, it was our government passing laws to allow these manufacturers to relocate to overseas markets and as long as they had one office in the U.S. they would be considered a U.S. manufacturer and not have to pay taxes to bring their goods into our country.
Again "of the people for the people" down the drain while our government is making a path for businesses to ready for a global economy. Of course you don't care.
I am a happy man except for the fact that there are millions of americans who are having their futures and families destroyed by our governments and big businesses agendas, and people like you are satisfied in hiring illegals. What was your name again? The feds can look into the Suns' computers and find out. Keep spouting your anti american cr*p. You'll probably get udeboda knocking at your door looking for a friend.
It is the wages
It is the healthcare costs
Pay your own way deadbeat
Get an education loser
Stop expecting people to pay for your bad choices.
Better and cheaper labor will be used. Face it.
Aint gonna change.
Of course the illegals were buying a lot of houses and driving up the real estate prices, so demand is off. I think a number of contractors are going for illegals more than ever to increase profits in a tight market.
I wonder how many illegals live with nick? I can't imagine the test of humaniity that takes! Nicky, Your a small fry in the sea of life, Just make sure you know where your swimming.
The hiring of illegal immigrants who work for "slave" wages is our contemporary style of slavery. Employers are trapped by the need to cut costs and the over-tempting supply of cheap, benefit-free labor, a cheap labor force that is greatful for the pay it gets. The problem feeds upon itself, growing bigger as time goes on. The cost savings for the employer and consumer who benefit from cheap service labor, is offset by a grwing share of tax money the illegal, non-tax paying labor force obsorbes in government aid and medical services. On the other hand, many undocumented aliens, I would say, have fake Social security cards. Tax withholdings are being to IRS for people who are dead or don't exist. So that is a counter-offset to tax money that goes to help illigal workers. Illegal workers spend their illegal wages at legitimate stores.
The economics get very blurry for me at this point--but over all, the system, like the enslavement of African Americans in America's past, is a cancer that is dragging us down into spiraling dishonesty and third-world stature.
2010 will be a glorious milestone in American history, I hope the process is every bit as revealing as the election of a president is for the American people.
All Americans need to be counted, regardless of color, green, auburn, or aubergine; we all need to be counted to allow the true meaning of the exercise (taxation and representation) to appropriate the distribution of services. For far too long, it has been the uninformed minority segment of our society that has gone uncounted and under served.
The politically connected and educated have used the laws to support themselves and their enclaves using government funds and programs "skimming the cream off the top" of revenues to enhance their communities or segments of the country, through appointments, grants, and job creation programs.
It has become "high time" that all Americans understand they are an integral part of what it is that America is all about. Americans everywhere need to stand-up and participate in our country's direction and future.
Comment removed by staff.
Sergio,
You should check your facts before posting them. The minimum wage in Mexico is $1645, compared with the USAs $15085, which is only 9 times that of the Mexican wage, not 30 times as you say.
So mr nick,you will employ illeagals before a citizen.Well let me ask you this then i assume a freind of birdbrain>?Can i come to you for payment of the 2 law suits filed by UMC over the illeagal that used my ss# for 2 surgeries!As it stands now,to the tune of about 87.000 bucks!The pictures dont match on our i.d s but yet because he used my ss# im responcible!Care to pay there bill for them???
I'm sorry to inform you Mr. Scott, but your opinion is baseless.
You can't deport the millions of illegal immigrants in our country, you just can't.
Even if you do deport many people who already have a life here (families too) they'll be back in a few years since their kids will petition for them.
Don't you realize that? You can't take 'em out anymore, it's too late. Their kids tend to be American Citizens whether you like it or not.
Also, research has shown that illegal immigrants pay taxes due to contrary belief.
Mr.meow, I'll agree that deportation would be hard, so if our government would pass a law to make it mandatory for every employer to use e-verify on every employee working for them and use it on every person applying for a job, it would just be a matter of time and the illegals would have to remove themselves. The only problem is depending on our government to uphold the laws. They are not "for the people".
mr.meowington...
A citizen of the U.S. can not petition for anyone until they reach the age of 21.
Illegal immigrants can and are being deported.
And if they go through formal deportation proceedings, there is a 5 year bar until they can apply for a visa to return to the U.S. Of course there are no guarantees that they will be able to obtain a visa. If they do receive a visa, and attempt to enter the U.S. they will have to convince the U.S. Immigrations Inspectors that they will obey the Immigration laws. Very few deportees are able to get a visa and the odds are worse that they can make it pass an Immigration Inspector.
If illegals pay any tax it would be very small compared to the tax dollars that they use...
mr.meow, Go back to your cat box! Or do you have to go on the carpet like you do on the posts?
"Mr.meow, I'll agree that deportation would be hard, so if our government would pass a law to make it mandatory for every employer to use e-verify on every employee working for them and use it on every person applying for a job, it would just be a matter of time and the illegals would have to remove themselves. The only problem is depending on our government to uphold the laws. They are not "for the people"." - Fremmasmind
I agree with you that this is an effective measure, they'll still be back with their born children from the U.S.
"A citizen of the U.S. can not petition for anyone until they reach the age of 21." - Larry
I'm aware of that. Check the Immigration webpage. When the children become of 21 years of age, parents are given a top priority and from what I've seen, they're usually given a permit and is a pathway to permanent residency. There is a 10 year bar if they leave beforehand.
"If illegals pay any tax it would be very small compared to the tax dollars that they use..."
You don't sound convinced that they do. 12+ million illegals don't stand at home depot and are actually employed by tax paying employers. It's so easy to pay taxes, you need an ITIN number from the IRS which is given to anyone regardless their immigration status and since I've worked as in interpreter with many, I've seen it's possible and a large percentage of the illegal population does it.
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links...but here:
http://reason.org/news/show/122411.html
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxe...
Meow...
Sounds like you are up on your immigration laws. That is good. So many here try to talk their way through.
You are right that U.S. Citizens of 21 years of age can petition for their relatives. Parents do have a priority. Once they have immigrated to the U.S. they have to wait 4 years to be able to apply for citizenship. During these 4 years, they have to be self supporting and can not go on welfare or apply for any public assistance.
And again you are correct on the 10 year bar. There is a 10 year bar prohibiting readmission if the petitioned person was formally deported by the U.S.
So, if somebody residing in the United States in an illegal status, ever ends up in deportation proceedings, the bar to readmission not only will keep that person out for 10 years, it also might complicate the situation if anyone petitions for that person.
To avoid the petitioned person from becoming a public charge, the petitioner must show that they have sufficient income and assets to provide financial assistance to the petitioned person or persons. Take a look online at the Form I-862. It has the income guidelines for petitioners.
Indeed, someone has done their research, I'm glad!
Although i'm not sure on this one:
"So, if somebody residing in the United States in an illegal status, ever ends up in deportation proceedings, the bar to readmission not only will keep that person out for 10 years, it also might complicate the situation if anyone petitions for that person."
I'm not sure if they have to be out for 10 years...but I'm guessing it doesn't happen since they have to leave the country (Most leave to Ciudad Juarez).
Although I don't agree that amnesty should be given to all (especially those who just come to work, leave, and just send money rather than spending it here) I must say that there are families here (with American Citizen children)who will not be leaving this country. It's just simple logic and they'll be back and will be petitioned.
Well, we could deport all the illegal aliens, but what kind of punishment would be appropriate for the American business owners that are hiring them?
Deporting all illegal aliens would be nearly impossible. That's common sense.
Things such as eVerify used forcefully, will lead them out. Look at Arizona, they've been successful.
Meow...
Maybe I should have said that the bar to readmission is for those trying to make legal entry. Of course they sure could enter the U.S. without inspection by climbing the fence, etc.
Every time a alien is picked up by immigration authorities, their picture and fingerprints are entered into a nation wide data base system. The system will give the officers notification if subject has ever been encountered before.
An important fact is that if a deportee reenters the U.S. after deportation without permission that person is subject to a pertinent bar and felony prosecution if encountered. Federal judges consider the criminal charge of re-entry after deportation very serious and the person most likely will face incarceration.
I failed to mention that if a subject is carrying false or counterfeit documents, lies or withholds pertinent information during questioning by authorities they may receive a permanent bar.
The threat of being picked and removed as an illegal alien, may be one reason so many illegals are returning to their home country and waiting to be re-enter the U.S. in a legal manner.
"The threat of being picked and removed as an illegal alien, may be one reason so many illegals are returning to their home country and waiting to be re-enter the U.S. in a legal manner."
Not really, they usually don't carry their green cards or fake ss#'s. It's been the low level of jobs that has driven many illegals out. Why be unemployed and living without many when you can just return home and be ok there?
I've met many undocumented people and this has been common. I know the immigration laws pretty well since I've worked with them in many cases.
Mr. meow, do you know how to say greencard through family member?
Mr. meow you ought to become Ambassador to Mehico. You could even stay ther and fight for their rights in their own country, because they have no rights here in the U.S.
Which side of the border do you want to fight for?
I fight for no border.
"Mr. meow, do you know how to say greencard through family member?"
Residencia permanente por medio familiar.
That's ok, I don't need to become an ambassador to state something that's common sense. They have their rights in their country.
They have rights here in the U.S., it's called humanity. I guess we're just as low as the countries you fear a lot, China, etc.
I have served my country, what else do you want me to do?
Meow
Become a true american, they are so hard to find these days.
Mr. Meow, humanity is as conscience state, it's not a U.S. law.
"Meow
Become a true american, they are so hard to find these days."
How, by being a Republican, supporting only far right policies, owning a gun, being against all sorts of immigration, being capitalist, and not expressing myself or criticizing far right policies? Wrong.
What's your definition of a "true American"? There's Latin Americans, Central Americans, South Americans. What do you mean by that?