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twitterLetter to the Editor:
Republicans are the real liars on health care
Monday, Sept. 14, 2009 | 2:04 a.m.
It looks like some version of Democratic health care reform will be passed — despite the blitz of lies put out by Republicans to scare and anger the American people and defeat this legislation they call Obamacare.
The false claims Republicans have made about the Democratic legislation:
Lie No. 1: The Democratic bill would set up death panels, which could decide who would live or die, and be able to pull the plug on Grandma.
Lie No. 2: It would provide health insurance to illegal immigrants.
Lie No. 3: It would pay for abortions.
Lie No. 4: There would have to be serious cuts in Medicare to pay for this reform bill.
Lie No. 5: It would impose on all Americans a health care system like the one in Canada.
Lie No. 6: (The lollapalooza of all Republican lies) The United States has the best health care system in the world. Members of the GOP say this even though, as you know, we pay up to twice as much as other advanced countries for medical care, 46 million Americans don’t have health insurance, and our infant mortality and life expectancy rates are lower than those of almost every other industrialized nation.
I think the problem was that many people turned to the Republicans to tell them what was in the Democratic bill, and the Republicans lied to them.
Let’s face it, the Republicans controlled Congress from 1994 until 2006, and the White House for eight years starting with George W. Bush’s election in 2000, and never made a serious attempt to improve our health care system. And when questioned about improvements, they repeated lie No. 6 above. After this performance, how can you believe any Republican statement?
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bravo!!!
it is sad...
how the pathetic republican party has morphed to to children...
willing to lie or do anything to get their way...
their are no leaders in the republican party...
just children...
w the scum bag liar loser clown...
cheney the evil doer...
karl no morals whatsoever rove...
sarah dumb as a bag of rocks palin...
johnnie boy i slept with my best friends wife, then fired them both when i got caught, then ran to mommy and daddy to fix my boo boo ensign...
jimmie no one has an ounce of respect for me monkey boy gibbons...
david the hepatitis criminals laugh at me all day every day because i am a complete and total failure roger...
rushbo the drug addict...
ann the ugliest person on the planet colter...
cluster fox...
and on and on and on...
who the hell would want to join the pathetic republican party these days!!!
The LV Sun says "This would be laughable if people weren't taking them seriously."
It is serious because we are on the right side of the issue.
President Obama is calling a majority of American position "A Lie, plain and simple" because we do not believe Obama or trust Obama'
I cannot remember anything that Obama said about healthcare. What I remember is his snarling smack down of his opposition.
He also used the address to very publicly rebuke those who do not trust him or believe him.
Obama in his address to the nation call opposition positions (Harry called them evilmonger and Nancy called them un-American) on 5 issues "a lie, plain and simple"
Remember when Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid called President George W. Bush a liar.
At a campaign rally on 9-12-2009, in Minnesota Obama said "They can't stop us!"
John Podesta said, In the coming weeks, the president and the extensive resources he commands will be used to lavish attention on two groups: Democratic lawmakers and middle-class Americans who are anxious about how the cost of extending coverage to tens of millions of the uninsured will affect their own health insurance and finances. "You have assets you can deploy to make the case and bump up individual members" of Congress, said Podesta. Mean while ACORN, SEIU, Community for Change, and Organizing for America are also using taxpayer money and selling Obamacare.
Sunday The White House had a message to the tens of thousands of protesters who railed against big government during a rally in Washington Saturday 9-12-2009: You're wrong.
White House senior adviser David Axelrod said Sunday that the protesters, part of the "tea party" movement, do not represent the views of the public when it comes to health care reform. Axelrod said on CBS' "Face the Nation." "You know, My message to them is, they're wrong."
Obama, Reid, and Pelosi are tone deaf. They do not resond to our phone calls, e-mails, townhalls, or rallies. They refuse to listen to us because we are liars to them, because we do not believe them or trust them.
"It is serious because we are on the right side of the issue."
You're not on the right side, you're in the minority.
"President Obama is calling a majority of American position "A Lie, plain and simple" because we do not believe Obama or trust Obama."
Future, you're demonstrating EXACTLY what Obama was talking about when he called people like you "cynical and irresponsible." His full quote is here:
"Some of people's concerns have grown out of bogus claims spread by those whose only agenda is to kill reform at any cost. The best example is the claim, made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but prominent politicians, that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. Such a charge would be laughable if it weren't so cynical and irresponsible. It is a lie, plain and simple."
"I cannot remember anything that Obama said about healthcare."
Yes, it's obvious from your rhetoric that you weren't paying attention.
"What I remember is his snarling smack down of his opposition."
SNARLING SMACK DOWN? Well then, your victim card is laid out plain, for everyone to see!
"Mean while ACORN, SEIU, Community for Change, and Organizing for America are also using taxpayer money and selling Obamacare."
That's an outlandish claim that you fail to substantiate.
"They refuse to listen to us because we are liars to them, because we do not believe them or trust them."
Oh boo hoo! You lost the election, Future. The ideas of the republican party were soundly defeated by those of the Democrats. Americans spoke out with votes, cash, and volunteer work to put your party in the minority in Congress. Now you're crying because they don't want to adopt your failed ideas? The failed ideas that the American people rejected by tens of millions of votes?
Cry me a river, Future.
I have a real reason for reform: My family's blood became profits for Sun Healthcare Group Inc, a publicy traded co based in New Mexico that operates over 200 nursing homes.
In 2003-2004 Evelyn Calvert suffered a horrific death lasting many months after contracting MRSA from Sunbridge Newport facility. A stroke they caused when broken equipment was used to monitor her b/p failed to provide the info needed to medicate her properly, the CEO sent employee Julie Campbell to apologize -as she could never swallow again. Two months later when she arrived at the local acute care hospital the physicians advised they found her in a severly deconditioned state. They gave her 6 months to live. She died 7 1/2 months later. We sued SUN but the CEO gave threatening messages to me in mediation through my attorney, that if I pursued this case to jury trial he'd harm me. I caved because I'd just had pancreatic pre-cancer surgery and was weak. When I regained my strength I sued Dan Leipold, my attorney, and he died 2 weeks later in his sleep a 59 yr old man. Apparently Sun owned him. In mediation he deducted $20,000 from our settlement to punish me for writting too many complaining letters to the CEO. I sued for malpractice and won in 2008.
The Medical Director of Sunbridge testified in sworn depo in 2008 that SUN killed my mother. That he quit due to the lack of response from management.
Sun has been committed to a permanent injunction in Calif for killing patients in Burlingame, Calif with broken equipment since 2001.
Yet they did the same in 2003-2004 with five patients I witnessed. Do you think the Dept of Justice cares?
C O R R U P T I O N
Ask Claude Vanderwold, Joseph Fendrick why they pursued the employees of a SUN facility in Encinitas instead of the management for the deaths in Newport Beach.
C O R R U P T I O N
Why did the Calvert family get cheated out of treble damages any Judge would have awarded knowing they violated this injunction by killing Evelyn Calvert? Why did my late attorney pass on threats from the CEO of harm if information from my case were made public?
C O R R U P T I O N
Willful misconduct by the CEO and Dr Chauncey Hunker, risk manager, is what we could prove. I have a letter they wrote stating it was fine with them to live in a facility without Heat Ventilation and Air Conditioning -which is what contributed to mom's death according to their medical director Dr L Scott Stoney.
Do you think the board of directors of Sun Healthcare Group Inc should fire the CEO and board member Dr Hunker for knowingly violating the injunction by understaffing repeatedly in 2003 and killing five patients I knew of with broken equipment? This info just recently provided to the attorney firm Fonda & Fraser LLP Anaheim, Calif.
Debbie Calvert
Newport Beach, California
ksand99 and birdie - your babble is as much hogwash as you claim the republicans are spewing. If there is no care for illegal immigrants, write it specifically in the bill. If there is no money for abortions, write it specifically in the bill. Far too many times, there has been incorrect interpretation of what was meant in a bill. And why birdie do you not admit to the shortcomings of the folks in the democratic party. Lets just start with Clinton and that famous lie, " I did not have sex with that women" When your closet is clean, you can then start pointing fingers, until then, let the man with no sin cast the first stone.
NO PUBLIC OPTION!!!
We need Medicare reform--the hospital just dumped my 95 year old father off at the house because his medicare benefits expired. No call to the house first--just a dying 95 year old man sitting upright in a wheel chair in an ambulance with oxygen equipment hooked up incorrectly.
After a phone call they returned him to hospital
after getting assurance that the hospital would receive the $400 a day they charge for his care. There was never any suggestion that they would not receive it in the first place. Your government run health care in action!
Republicans lie about everything. Most of them are FELONS too. UCMJ felons (AWOLees-deserters)include Jim Wilson, Peter King, Quayle, Boy George, peterless King, and SCOTUS in-justice Sam "Affirmative Action" Alito. Like Boy George, this posse also blew off their uniformed military service too. IMAGINE THAT! Taxpayers were fleeced by Alito where he pimped and exploited them for 7 years of college education (JD-undergrad college degrees). He incurred anactive military duty obligation of 11 years as a result of these GIFTS, however, he only served 90 days on active duty.
Me, I went to college on active duty and the taxpayers dime too. I serve 2 years of active military duty for each year of education. Ooopsy! I'm BLACK. Jursits-mulligan for Obama? SISTA on the SCOTUS bench? Clarence Thomas' ("Driving Ms. Daisy")head would explode. The gutless wonders, MT suits and dresses in the NAACP, NABJ, NUL, and Cong. Black Caucus-CBC-comical blacks in congress, should make Pelosi, Reid, and Obama impeach Alito. The GOP and John Birch Society tried to IMPEACH SCOTUS Chief Justice Earl Warren, because Warren wanted Blacks to have civil rights.
The Sun and other limousine Liberals are going to be sorely disappointed. They will lose this government health-takeover scheme, and I will laugh, laugh, laugh.
I'm sure some version of the Ted Kennedy Memorial Watered-Down Free-Skittles-for-Everybody Health Takeover Act of 2009 will be passed. The Democrats have no choice. But it won't contain a public option or anything else the far-left leeches of this country have their hearts set on. Too bad.
One tip to Obama: When they have the bill-signing in the Rose Garden, you can't just vote "Present." You have to actually sign the bill.
According to factcheck.org...in a liberal analysis of BHO's speech said:
The president is correct: 1. The House bill contains a section (Sec. 246) titled "NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS," which states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."
However, conservative critics object to a lack of specific enforcement measures in the bill. They argue that the lack of a specific verification mechanism constitutes a loophole that would allow illegal immigrants to get benefits despite the legal prohibition. Republican Rep. Dean Heller of Nevada proposed an amendment to the bill that would have required the use of the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements program to check the citizenship of anyone applying for federal coverage or affordability credits. SAVE is the program used by Medicaid and similar entitlement programs. That amendment was voted down along party lines by the House Ways and Means Committee. Republicans have a point here: More could be done to enforce the ban.
Obama: [U]nder our plan, no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions.
1. The truth of that depends on what is meant by "federal dollars." Actually, as we've written before, under Democratic legislation now before Congress, the "public option" would cover abortions in cases of rape, incest or threat to the life of the mother and could cover all abortions if the administration chooses, and as Obama once promised. Private insurance plans purchased with the help of federal subsidies to low- and moderate-income workers also could cover all abortions, as many, if not most, private plans do today.
Under an amendment adopted by a House committee, abortions would be paid for by the "public option" only with money collected from policyholders in the form of premiums, not with money collected from taxpayers. But is money collected by the government and paid out to abortion providers by the government "federal dollars"? The anti-abortion side says yes. And the same goes for federal subsidies given to low- and moderate-income persons to help them buy insurance. If they use those dollars to buy private policies that cover all abortions, does that mean "federal dollars" go to fund abortions? Again, abortion foes say yes.
I think everyone should do a little more reading on the FACTS. It seems to be subjective and it is anything but.
It's a shame that the Sun has to continue to publish the ridiculous ranting of R. Mundy. Talk about pot stirring.
Here are the lies by the lying writer:
1) No sitting Republican politican said that. Prove it. They talk about death panels but they never claimed that the death panel will force death on people.
2) A Congressional Research Study put out by a government agency said there was nothing in the House bill that prevents illegals from getting the public option and that in fact in open more doors to illegals getting Medicaid and Schip.
3) There is nothing in the bill that prevents the all power public option oversight board from adding abortion to the benefit package
4) The Sun has said there will be hundreds of billions in cuts to Medicare. Obama has said there will be hundreds of billions in cuts to Medicare. I guess you are joining Joe and calling Obama a liar. I go with that.
5) On lib talk shows, they claim that the public option is the first step in the government takeover of health care. I guess you are calling lib talk shows liars. I go with that.
6) Over 80% of Americans are happy with their insurance and medical care. I guess you are calling 80% of America as liars. You should go with that into the 2010 and 2012 elections.
the same people with the same mindless rhetoric falsify everything in their lives when speaking about health care. where were these citizens when the iraq war started?
"where were these citizens when the iraq war started?"
Likely the same place as you...shaking our heads in bewilderment. Why do you all assume that EVERYONE on the other side of the aisle was pro-Iraq? I wasn't asked by my legislator for my opinion...were you asked yours?
Here's a little true story for you: the mother of a friend of mine visited Scotland last year, and while she was there she had the misfortune of coming down with a serious respiratory infection. She had no special insurance that would have covered her overseas. Fortunately for her, the "socialist" doctors there quickly realized how serious her condition was, and she was hospitalized for several days, treated with antibiotics, an IV was administered, etc. When she was discharged from the hospital, she received her bill in the amount of - - - $40.
As she left the hospital, she didn't face a mob of vicious teabaggers hurling halitosis-laden insults at her for being an alien receiving medical care at their expense. She visited Scotland, she had the misfortune of getting ill, and the health care professionals there got her the prompt medical attention that she needed without bankrupting her.
Compare her treatment with that received by this unfortunate fellow right here in our own city just within the past few weeks:
http://www.lvrj.com/news/59120037.html
Yep, we've got the greatest health care system in the world right here in America, and damn those awful illegal aliens . . . . . . .
How many of you including Mr. Mundy have a problem with their health care? The greatest horxs is Goverment hideing the real problems in this Country. Whats the real issue? check with your neighbors, you may find out. Your leaders in this Country are a Joke, and are having a ball with this health care junk while behind your backs are saddling you with hugh debts. Knocking each other in blogs is just what they want, they sit back and laugh at YOU.
"mob of vicious teabaggers hurling halitosis-laden insults at her for being an alien receiving medical care at their expense."
Are you kidding me??? We aren't talking about a single incident of a "normal" visitor who is planning on going home. We are talking about a parasitic group of people who feel entitled to rape our system at the expense of American taxpayers. Viva La Raza!!!
I can't believe you can't see the difference. That's what's wrong with America today...you're either wearing rose colored glasses or you have your blinders on.
Hey By Dawgdayafternoon. Do you get a thrill out of using the term "teabaggers?"
I emailed the Sun about that term... and not surprisingly, they don't seem to take issue with it. However, don't misspell the word country...you will be thoroughly chastized as using foul and inappropriate language.
The real lie here is that the Open Borders & Amnesty crowd wants us to believe that their agenda doesn't include free medical care for illegal aliens. Hogwash. The U.S. is running on a half empty tank and these cretins want to give a free ride to more human baggage.
LOL...and we spout"halitosis-laden insults" right?
LARRYLAS VEGAS:
Actually, that's the first time I've used that term. I do find it amusingly appropriate.
How nice for you...
mike smith nailed it!!!
http://www.lasvegassun.com/photos/2009/s...
INDYTHINKER:
Ah yes, let's vilify those horrible illegal alien parasites, who work hard at awful wages, taking jobs that no one else here wants.
Entire industries seem to love 'em as a reliable method to keep labor costs down:
"There are places in this country where we wouldn't survive without immigrants," says John Gay, a lobbyist for the American Hotel & Lodging Association, which is pressing Congress to allow more "essential workers" into the United States. "The trend is to push our own children into college to be rocket scientists or computer programmers. But who is going to do these hard jobs that we have? Who is going to change bedpans in a nursing home? Or change beds in hotels?"
"Jobs in poultry plants across the South, once held almost exclusively by American blacks, are now dominated by Mexican immigrants. Textile plants run largely on the labors of Hispanic workers. In the Kentucky coal fields, mining companies are considering recruiting miners from the Ukraine."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/...
You know, illegal alien kids are attending public schools at taxpayer expense right now -- let's shut down the education system and teach 'em a real lesson!
Look, it is obvious that illegal immigration presents a real social problem and it needs to be curbed. However, the Republican approach of "let's deny health care reform in America because some undeserving people might derive an unfair benefit" is absurd. Yet, that seems to be indicative of how the far right likes to operate: create a boogieman, use a little xenophobia to put horns on his head, and rile up the masses.
you know what is funny...
when you catch a stupid pathetic republican puke in a bold face lie...
like say...
sarah dumb as a bag of rocks palin and her stupid pathetic republican puke false claim of death panels...
the funniest part of all is how she and the stupid pathetic republican puke party reacted...
there is no apology...
there is no remorse...
there is no interest in getting to the truth...
there is just denial...
there is just escalation...
there is just childish childish behavior...
it is sad...
truly truly sad...
who the hell would want to be a stupid pathetic republican puke these days???
BIRDIE:
Thanks for the link to that cartoon -- you're right, he nailed it!
BTW, here's an unpublished photo of the Tea Party vanguard arriving in DC the other day:
http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~bigoleg...
DDA... "Look, it is obvious that illegal immigration presents a real social problem and it needs to be curbed. However, the Republican approach of "let's deny health care reform in America because some undeserving people might derive an unfair benefit" is absurd. Yet, that seems to be indicative of how the far right likes to operate: create a boogieman, use a little xenophobia to put horns on his head, and rile up the masses."
That's hysterical... but the IA issue is just one example of why we are resistant. I have always, ALWAYS, been for medical reform. But I don't believe my tax dollars are wellspent on abortion or illegal aliens. As an American...it is my right to voice dissent. As can you. But, to lump us all as idiots or uncaring is wrong. I just think naturalized citizens should come first.
And, as far as IA's doing jobs no one wants... I kind of shake my head at that especially in this economy. That was one opinion you cited. I can tell that when ICE raided a plant (CO ?) a year or so ago...the line was down the block with applicants looking for a job. So, that's not always the case.
More intelligent words from that wonderful mind - Birdie. I don't think I ever conversed with a person with such a limited vocabulary as birdie. If your not calling someone names, you have no intelligent thought in your head. Why don't you contribute to Mad magazine, or some other rag on your level.
Republicans;
LIES & The Lying Liars That Tell Them.
My second favorite book title after;
Rush Limbaugh Is A Big, Fat Idiot.
Democrats -" I did not have sex with that woman"
LMAO....
I have a question for those folks that think we need to exploit illegal aliens to "do the jobs that no Americans will do.
Who does these jobs in areas of the USA where there are few or no illegal aliens?
OK ...2 questions.
Who did the labor in the meat packing industries [poultry is meat] in the years leading up to the take over of these industries in the 1980s?
Abe Lincoln freed the slaves in the 1860s ... Which is approx 120 years before the 1980s [for the math challenged]
to our stupid pathetic republican puke friends...
you see dear friends...
clinton's lie cost him and hilary their dignity...
w the scum bag liar loser clown's lie about wmd in iraq cost 4,000 brave military americans and 100,000 innocent iraqi civilians their lives...
not to mention it wasted $1 trillion...
big differnece...
big big difference!!!
oh by the way...
if you voted for w the scum bag liar loser clown...
that blood is on your hands...
good luck with that when you get to the pearly gates!!!
The idiots in government lack the intelligence to run an electric train around a Christmas Tree. Health care is too important to turn over to the stupidest people in the world, Politicians and the fools that work for them.
Unfortunately, it's not the "Joe Wilson/Glenn Beck" Republicans we should be worried about, it's the people they pander to: The pseudo-Christian, right wing, phony evangelical, Neo-Conservative Fascist political coalition that should scare the hell out of us. Josef Goebbels would have had a field day with this new breed of skinhead!
geo257;
You mean like John Ensign, Republican Senator from Nevada?
Hey pmmart: Your statement "Who did the labor in the meat packing industries [poultry is meat] in the years leading up to the take over of these industries in the 1980s?"
An example... A large beef processing plant was built in Emporia, Kansas during the 1960's. The work was tough and dirty but there were lots of local people willing to work for the decent wages that were being paid. Some time in the 1970's the U.S. Border Patrol was taken off interior enforcement and quit paying visits the the large meat packers to look for illegal workers. Within a few years, a good segment of the workers were suspected of being illegal workers and the processing plant started lowering wages and benefits. Local documented workers went to other jobs and by the 90's most of the workers had been replaced by undocumented workers.
http://www.freemarketcure.com/brainsurge...
Thank you Richard Mundy and KSand 99. You bring reason and calm insight to this critical debate. It is always refreshing and uplifting to read your comments. I wonder what part of this language do the fear mongers not understand?
" The House bill contains a section (Sec. 246) titled "NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS," which states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."
To continue to raise doubts over the language and to insist it is not specific enough for them only underscores their real motive and ignorance. Their strategy is defeat health insurance reform at any cost, to continue to make the PHAMA and health insurance industry richer at the expense of the public and strike fear into the minds of the uneducated and misinformed.
We are going to get health insurance reform under Obama and like under FDR the extreme right wing fear mongerers, corrupt Wall Street special interests and their allies in the Republican party will be marginalized.
Take a look at where the Party now holds a majority. They have been regionalized to the south. The majority of Americans spoke loud and clear in the last election and once the reforms are adopted they will experience the inherent benefit of health care security at lower costs, with more choice.
History is a great teacher for the informed.
Please keep writng and doing the research we the majority of Americans appreciate.
Larry, are you talking bout IBF right next door to Blue Stem farm and ranch supply?
Hey Burritto... Yes you are correct. I have not thought about "Blue Stem" for years. That used to be the main place to buy those things you could not find anywhere else. I wonder if it's still there?
How are you familiar with Emporia?
I stand corrected the beef plant is called IBP. My father was from Emporia and he loved to go Blue stem for free coffee and doughnuts and look at nuts and bolts and farm stuff. He grew up on a 400 acre farm north of Emporia
I will say this to Mr Muddy, BUMPER STICKERS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS
I grew up in Emporia in the 60's and left in early 90's... Haven't been back in years, but still have a lot of friends in that area. How about you?
I lived their a few years but I'm from Vegas. I hung around with the a kid named Goodell. You are not missing anything bout not livivng their anymore. I remember a store called David's-big junk store, the original Wal-greens, Dillions,Rebell market, bait shop's. We lived right off of Whilden str called Harcourt.
I spent the 1st 59 yrs of my life in Iowa and worked at FDL in Dubuque for a while in the 60s .. my brother worked there [FDL and the companies that replaced it after Walert sold out due to compitation from non-union plants]for 40 yrs.
Iowa Beef and CEO Robert Peterson pretty much destroyed the packing plants in the midwest[series of articles in the Des Moines Register about this practice in the early 1970s] by going to Mexico and recruiting illegals to come to the midwest and you will be hired... Iowa lost several packing plants with excellent paying jobs ... but ... Not all was lost because Iowa became known as the illegal drug crossroads of America thanks to Mexican MJ and meth.
Larry, I can tell you my father's uncle owned Coffey Bowling alley in Burlington
One of the biggest distractions used to foster the take over of the health care of Americans are the ideas about how much we spend and things like how long people live. There are plenty of lies to go around.
There was an article in the RJ this weekend about how great medicine is in China. In the third paragraph of an article that took up almost two whole pages was a claim about how little they spend and how healthy they are.
They talk about how the average Chinese citizen goes to the doctor about 14 times a year and of course they have basically socialized medicine with a twist.
In about the 6th to last paragraph (again, must have been 120 paragraphs) they finally mentioned that the obesity rates are a fraction of the US (among other differences).
They have mandatory obesity counseling for the overweight where-by they asked the question, "How many Americans would put up with that".
The middle part of the article talked about how little the (per birdie: money grubbing whore) doctors make there.
One otolaryngologist (that's an ear-nose-throat specialist: you know, the doctor treating you for everything from chronic sinus conditions to head and neck cancer) profiled in the article sees over 100 patients a day and spends an average of 3 minutes with each of them.
Be careful what you wish for.
Health care/insurance/you will be required to have it or be fined reform is DEAD... Talk about death panels, when Barack has to go to Congress and make a speech so early in the game about needing reform, it's because he realizes his bill is now in front of the DEATH panel(The United States Citizens). Barack's friends on the left are all shivering in the empty pants and skirts, they know if a bill is rammed down our throats, most of them are out of a job in 2010. The voters are the ultimate DEATH panel in politics. Now I know some of you will cite the CNN poll that 70% are in favor of reform since his speech, but I urge you to read the fine print. Of those polled 68% were democrats and 32% republican. Nothing like a 2 - 1 polling advantage to skew some numbers. Relax my republican, independent and moderate democrat friends, health care reform is DEAD. The ultimate DEATH panel, the American people, have spoken.
Darthbry-that is a cool name, that's why I'm changing my name to Chad Vader, like the way Chad sounds very intimadating
As I read the original article and the postings I find it amusing just how stupid democrats really are and none of you realize it.
Publicly run healthcare will fail just as everything the government attempts. They can't run Amtrak, USPS, Medicare, Medical, Medicaid, and Cash for Clunkers, IRS, or any other program involving money. The only thing the government can accomplish and they're really good at and that they are good liars, cheaters, crooks, and outright heathens.
Show me one program where the ACLU hasn't filed a lawsuit and won to include illegal immigrants to participate with any public system, you can't. Show me a government who arrests, prosecutes, and deports all illegal immigrants. What makes anyone of you think that if is the bills is passed that our crooked politicians and/or judges won't amend the bill to be inclusive into the healthcare plan? Just how stupid to you tree huggers think mainstream Americans are?
This will never pass or become law. You won't get healthcare at least not in your lifetime. Here is an idea, get a job and pay for it yourself. We're sick and tired of supporting your lazy choices. We're done paying for lazy people and the choices they made or make in their life. If you can't afford you expect us to pay for your laziness. We're done paying for those who choose not to work and live off the system. We don't care if you have medical or not, get a life and create your own destiny and stop sucking off us that do work.
freeandinformed posted a section from the house bill...
The House bill contains a section (Sec. 246) titled "NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS," which states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."
...The problem with the pending legislation is that it has a "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy for illegal immigrants. While the intent of the law may be to not have illegal aliens covered, it does not allow anyone to question an applicant's immigration status either. Therefore, if all 12 million illegal aliens in America applied for the insurance they would receive it, since no one would know they were here illegally.
It's not as if the Democrats don't know this is a problem, since they previously rejected Republican calls to amend the bill to include a verification system to check for citizen status.
Representative Dean Heller (R-Nevada) proposed an amendment that the government use the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements system (known as SAVE) to check for residency status before allowing someone to purchase the insurance. In July every Democrat on the House Ways & Means Committee (the committee that spends your tax dollars) voted down Heller's amendment.
While Congressional Democrats focus on whether Joe Wilson is polite, The White House just released a list of issues the President wants addressed in the pending health insurance legislation. As published by MSNBC, here is one of the bullet points from the White House:
Verification will be required when purchasing health insurance on the exchange. One option is the SAVE program (Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements) which states currently use to make sure that undocumented immigrants don't participate in safety-net programs for which they are ineligible.
That is exactly the measure the house Democrats voted down in July. The absence of such language in the pending legislation is exactly what prompted Joe Wilson to yell "You lie!" when the President insisted illegal aliens would not be covered. Without that system, they'll all be covered just by applying.
Mr. Mundy. Under ordinary circumstances I would point out that everything in you letter is typical of the writings of a cult member. However I then noticed that your letter has been validated by some whose writings are held in high regard.
For instance, here's a quote from one who has obviously studied this issue diligently:
"to our stupid pathetic republican puke friends...
you see dear friends...
clinton's lie cost him and hilary their dignity...
w the scum bag liar loser clown's lie about wmd in iraq cost 4,000 brave military americans and 100,000 innocent iraqi civilians their lives...
not to mention it wasted $1 trillion..."
The logic brought out by this has caused me to re-think my position. Then after reading this next quote I realized it would simply be wrong to question those who are capable of this sort of critical thinking:
their are no leaders in the republican party...
just children...
w the scum bag liar loser clown...
cheney the evil doer...
karl no morals whatsoever rove...
sarah dumb as a bag of rocks palin...
johnnie boy i slept with my best friends wife, then fired them both when i got caught, then ran to mommy and daddy to fix my boo boo ensign...
jimmie no one has an ounce of respect for me monkey boy gibbons...
david the hepatitis criminals laugh at me all day every day because i am a complete and total failure roger...
rushbo the drug addict...
ann the ugliest person on the planet colter...
cluster fox...
I'm sure that very soon the author of these quotes will be writing the president's speeches.
When in the hell did we ever start thinking that the Government could run anything right? When exactly did that become the answer for everything? Anybody with more than two functioning brain cells knows better but I see there are a few out there that have less than two working cells. Keep Government out of our lives!!
Burrito- Chad Vader has to be some of the funniest stuff on you tube!! ha ha.. yeah I'm a Star Wars geek...:-)
In tune with the "I did not have sex with that woman" fun..
Chelsie Clinton comes home from her freshman year at Stanford, and Hillary greets her to catch up. She asks the usual questions and than says, you know Chels..when I was in college it was a time of experimenting and finding out who I was sexually. Just girl to girl, did you have sex in college?...to which Chelsie replies "not according to dad". .....
ok, ok so I won't quit my day job and become a comedian, but it is hell of funny...
HEY DICK! I think your letter SUCKS!
Obviously facts aren't crucial to the noisemakers who comment here, but if anyone is interested in them anyhow, there's a new book that examines health care systems in 10 countries around the world. It's "The Healing of America" and there's a review of it here: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/health...
"then there is the insured working person who discovers, with surprise, that health insurance is a for-profit industry, that the industry term for payment is "medical loss" and that the process of extracting payment for a dire health condition can turn into a bizarre game of "catch me if you can."
A person's last days can be spent in any number of ways. But on the phone pleading with an insurer, that's only in America."
Interesting article. Thanks Highstreet.
Here's more on how that "medical loss" concept works:
http://commerce.senate.gov/public/_files...
Some of those "false" claims most likely will turn out to be true in whatever final bill ends up being signed.
But for anyone who thinks that Republicans are nothing but liars while Democrats are the embodiment of truth, or for anyone who believes the opposide, please wake up. Neither the Democrats nor the Republican's have the interest of the people at heart. Their own self-interest is the main motivation for everything they do. And corporate contributors have exactly what they want. So they second main concern is doing the bidding of those who contribute to their campaigns.
The proposed health care bills, like everything else coming out of Congress, is a giant scam. The only ones who benefit will be the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies. Especially if there will be no single-payer option, so whatever sacred concept anyone has about the current administration- is based on pure fantasy. Notice that it all started about the single-payer system, but this weak administration gave that up very fast for the sake of "conversing" and "compromise", in other words, it was never about that to begin with.
This final bill will be marketed as a great benefit for the American people. All marketing is a lie. This will be one of the largest thefts of taxpayer money. There will be next to no benefit to Americans, and a whole lot of money that is going into the coffers of insurance and pharmaceutical companies.
Please folks, stop taking part in the silly game of Democrats vs. Republicans. None of them care about you.
The only reform our present healthcare system needs is to make those people who have decent paying jobs buy their own healthcare policies, and quit using the tax funded hospital ER systems.
To Its2hot: I have a 28 year old son who WORKS full time and has a part time job to support his wife and 1 year old son. His employer does not offer health insurance and he can not get coverage because he has been treated for high blood pressure and no insurance company will insure him. According to your logic, "Too bad, so sad". Is this the way to treat hard working American citizens? And there are MILLIONS of hard working American citizens just like him. Just pray you do not lose your health insurance because without health insurance reform it will be, "too bad, so sad".
I am one of the independents that the Republicans are trying to sway. I can tell you that until they stop trying to obstruct reform I will not be pulling their lever.
Gee Whiz! An article in The Sun excoriating Republicans! How different is that? Advisory to the Sun. You ain't that good and Republicans ain't that bad.
After reading your "list" you sound just as rigid as some of those hard line right individuals arguing the other side. Many journalists are just as polarizing as the politicians. Basically I feel adding another massive governmment burocracy is really the wrong route. Here is some thoughts...
1. People should start taking care of themselves physically. How about some education on healthy food and exercise for a start. I have not had any expense over $400 in the last 10 years. Why should i pay for other peoples ailments. I should get a huge discount, but i don't. People need to take personal responsibility. Especially the smokers / heavy drinkers.
2. There already is so much fraud and corruption in the medicare structure, that should be cleaned up first. I heard of a case where a women percribed 2000 pairs of glasses to one person, billing Medicare. The fraud was caught, abiet several years later.
3. The Govt. owns part of the Banks, Auto Companies (apparently 10 billion went to Union health care expenses) Also the Medicare structure is overwhelmed with the smoker related expenses. Insurance, why should the tax payers own more, are we getting any return on the money? What if the Obama plan cannot keep up with expenses, i guess we will pay again, and again for another bailout. I am sure all the interested lobbyists are lined up for the cherry picking on the taxpayer's tree. Again, lets look into the corruption.
4. Let Insurance companies compete nationally for your business, competition brings down prices.
5. Lastly, how about, making a tax deduction for my gym membership, i have stayed healty. Or a deduction for healthly food i buy. Instead, and ironically, if for example, McDonald's were to have fiancial issues the govt. would probably be sympathetic, and loan them money, fearing the job losses and political fallout. Regardless of the type of food they serve.
6. People should be educated to empower themselves not rely on Govt. or the "state" to think for them.
Rule by fear....Republicans....keep it it up..... beck, Hanity ,,,those are your leaders....what a sad state your party is in
Solve all of our problems get rid of Obama, Harry, Nancy and the illegal mexicans.
Mr. Mundy...NEWSFLASH.....George Bush is no longer President! Secondly, your parsing of words is right out of the Clinton handbook. I am sure all of the "lies" you claim, are true. What opponents are saying is, as the current bills are being drafted, the policy will lead to the above mentioned results. Example: How can you add 47 million new patients to our system and save money? Answer: Curtail services or raise taxes. Is there another way? The bottom line to this entire mess is, Americans, not Republicans, understand this is a grab for their freedom and liberty. Nothing more. El Presidente is simply doing what he has been trained to do...agitate. This way he can be above the fray, & appear to be the great unifier. I have not heard Republicans "threaten" anyone who opposes them, but I have heard El Presidente and the Democrat leaders do so. If our so called leaders want to fix the system, do so. However, our current crop of unindicted "leaders" want to trash can our entire system...this is not warranted. One more thing...if there is another country that is ahead of the U.S. in medical research, or services provided..please name that country.
We have taken many years to create our present health care system. It won't be corrected with one big bill changing dozens of conditions all at once.
If health care reform was restricted to just three things, most people would be for it.
1. End pre-existing condition denials.
2. Require all those who are employed to get health insurance with subsidies based on income, including mandatory Medicaid-eligible enrollments.
3. Remove state restrictions on health insurance so plans can have greater numbers and competition can be increased.
Then, based on those actions, see what actions need to be done next. In four years, we could see real change. The current strategy of all or nothing isn't gettting us anywhere, but into arguments.
Well said. RICHARD J. MUNDY for President. I read every one of his letters to the editor. Every word was right on, keep up the great work.
How stupid can one be and still walk around loose? Read HR3200, which is the ONLY published "plan". End of "lies".
Well,Now you tell me the republicans are liars!First off DICK, Who are you again? Do you always write like you dance around in circles sucking your thumb? So,I'm supposed to beleive liberals are honest by your account? This president can't even lie fast enough without his prompter. Is this the best the sun can do?
What a load of BS. The Supreme Court has ruled that unless a bill specifically denies coverage it will be granted. Therefore, abortions will be covered because the bill doesn't deny it. As for illegal immigrants, Nancy Pelosi specifically stated it would be covered and, again, unless written to deny the coverage then it is covered. The Senate bill, not yet published, will deny it.
As far as Medicare, once more, the House version states it will take savings from Medicare to provide benefits to others. So, how can you take away money from Medicare and it not hurt seniors?
I don't like the Republicans but I don't trust the Democrats either as they are both alike. When you want to reform something you don't crash the whole system and start over, which is what this program will do. When you give a mouse a cracker it will ask for a glass of milk. Once you open the door then government will take it over. Socialism is just that way.
The Modern Republicans are like crying Four Year Olds without their favorite toy. Until they find someone to unite them through leadership, like Ronald Reagan or even Richard Nixon, they will act like this.
It is extraordinary that a self pro-claimed "objective media source" would publish such an article. Regardless of interpretation, this is not objective journalism but instead, an attempt to forward an agenda; quite likely one to in-flame both sides of the debate.
This article "as-is" should have never been published.
"This article "as-is" should have never been published."
This is a letter to the editor. Those of us who aren't brain dead saw the title at the top of the page.
Richard: GREAT LETTER
Right on the mark.
Vagman:
Tell your son to get another job but this time go get one that provides insurance. What you're failing to realize is that this is America, we create our own destiny and we are responsible for our actions. Your son is responsible for his choices, he chooses to work where no insurance is available. If insurance is that important to him and his family then he best do something about it and don't rely on me to pay for his choices.
This is the problem with America; Democrats have enabled their followers to blame everyone for their choices and for their lives not being equal to those who choose to create a better life for their family. When these people become responsible for their choices and stop blaming others for their life style choices which the system enables then I will not support any reform.
I do believe those who really need help should get help unfortunately the government run programs to-date have enabled the so called minorities, illegal immigrants, and career welfare recipients otherwise known as freeloaders to live off the system that has ruined it for those who really need the help. Until this is fixed we'll never really know who needs help. Clean up the present system then most of America will be more than happy to help those who need it. Until then, forget about it.
Good day!
2hot--- and there it is my friend! great post!
You wing-nuts actually beleive that health care reform is intended to help "freeloaders."
That's where you lose the majority of thinking people. You are so damned concerned that someone will get something from YOU PERSONALLY for free that they do not deserve, you are blinded as to the truth.
Thats your solution? Get another job? Most people now are fortunate to be working anywhere. Blame the people because insurance companies don't make insurance affordable or available? Brilliant!!! What about people who have lost their jobs and can't find another one? What about people who have lost their retirements and can't afford to retire because health insurance is too expensive? What about people with pre-existing conditions that are told to go pound sand? Life should be so simple You are so out of touch with reality. What a moron!!!!
Not at all, GMAG, just tired of the entitlement attitude. No one is entitled to anything. You earn it or don't get it. that is what we are talking about. I agree that health care has gone through the roof, however, total reform or government run is not the answer. Tort Reform, loser pays all in lawsuits and open state lines for insurers to sell would drive the costs down. I understand that some people may not be able to afford health insurance, and those can be helped. but forcing people to have it if they don't want it by fining (taxing) them, giving it to everyone will fundamentally destroy our health care system. When doctors who go to school for 10 years, have 200 - 500k in med school loans are told there work will only net them little more than a $15 - $20.00 per hour, they will stop practicing. Health care will get worse!!!! It is that simple. Birdie will be here saying those greedy doctors. It's not greed, If I put that much of my own money into being a doctor, I would expect to live better than average when I got a job. Greed it's not, but I am not putting my A$$ on the line, in a dangerous environment, for what a $15 - $20.00 an hour earner gets. It will destroy healthcare!
vagman:
Your son needs a better insurance broker. No insurance company will cover him because of high blood pressure? Let's be real.
Even without insurance, there are plenty of doctors that will see him for minimal cost. Wall Mart has plenty of blood pressure medicines for only $4/month.
I'll bet that if he lost weight, exercised, cut back on sodium, stopped smoking, cut out alcohol, lowered his stress level, eliminated fast food......
And yes, if insurance is so important to him he should begin making arrangements to get a job that offers insurance or pays enough that he can buy it himself.
Perhaps he could go to medical school, law school, get an engineering degree, an MBA, go to a trade school and learn to do something more in demand so that he can change jobs, get a teaching degree (isn't there a shortage of teachers in the U.S.) go to nursing school....
Has he got cable TV, two TV's, two cars, kids, a cell phone, a vacation or two per year, pay per view movies, date night with the misses...?
See the point as to why some don't want to just pay for others?
Vagman:
Be real about jobs, there are plenty of jobs in the USA and abroad. People just choose to work in their comfort zone and not aggressively pursue getting a job. I am sick and tired of people blaming me and my hard work to support their choices.
If they can't get a job locally then look outside the box and get a job elsewhere. There is plenty of work for those who are qualified, willingness to work in conjunction with the ability to learn.
I do live in Las Vegas, and I work in California. I made this choice when out local offices were slowing down and I saw the writing the wall so two years ago I began took another job in California and I now commute to California during the weekdays for work there and I maintain my residence here and come home on the weekends. I could've been like many others here and whine, complain, and say poor little me and why are business owners doing this to me or get off my butt and doing something about it. You son has the same option, quit whining and do something about it. Don't expect me and my hard to support his choices. He chooses just as everybody else makes their choices. Tell your son to find a job that suits his needs and provides him with the medical benefits or whatever he needs to become a fully functional member of society without relying on my work to support his choices. If this requires him to work out of town then sobeit, move or commute.
Good day!