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Pablo Martinez Monsivais / Associated Press
Many Republicans remain seated while Democrats applaud President Barack Obama during his address Wednesday to a joint session of Congress on overhauling the health care system. Obama set out principles he wants to see in the final legislation resulting from the various bills working their way through both houses.
Sunday, Sept. 13, 2009 | 2 a.m.
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After town-hall meetings, congressional hearings and a prime-time presidential address on health care reform, many questions remain about the proposals being considered on Capitol Hill.
Lest “You lie!” be the last word on the issue, here are some answers on how it would work, what it would cost and, finally, that most American of questions: What’s in it for me?
What are the biggest changes this proposal would make in the health insurance system?
Under President Barack Obama’s health care plan and the legislation going through Congress, every American would be required to have basic health insurance. Those without insurance from an employer or government entity such as Medicare, Medicaid or the Veterans Affairs Department would be required to buy it or pay a fine.
The penalties levied against those without insurance would be $750 a year ($1,500 for families) under the Senate bill or 2.5 percent of modified adjusted gross income under the House bill.
Subsidies in the House and Senate bills would help lower-income families pay for insurance.
Also, new laws would prevent insurance companies from denying coverage for preexisting conditions and cap patients’ out-of-pocket costs for care.
What happens to my current health care coverage through my employer?
Most Americans receive coverage through their jobs and the president said in his speech last week that “nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have.”
However, because some companies will likely opt not to provide coverage, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates that the share of people covered by their employer would drop about by 10 percent, or 15 million.
What if I don’t have insurance or lose my current coverage?
Those who are uninsured would be able to purchase insurance on their own from a new exchange, a marketplace for companies offering policies.
Individual insurance has always been pricey. But rates are expected to drop as companies compete for customers on the exchange. Estimates are that 47 million Americans are uninsured, including one in five Nevadans.
What is the public option?
The public option would be one of the health care plans offered on the new insurance exchange alongside private insurance companies’ plans.
The House bill would establish a government-run public option. The Senate bill would instead establish national or regional co-operatives with the same objective of increasing competition among insurance providers and thus driving down the cost of insurance.
The president (along with Nevada’s Democrats in Congress) prefers a public option, but is open to another system that could provide competition.
What if I can’t afford to buy insurance on the exchange?
Government assistance would be provided to pay for health care. Subsidies would be offered on a sliding scale in the House bill for those with incomes up to $88,000 annually for a family of four and for those with incomes up to $66,000 in the Senate bill.
Doesn’t Medicaid already cover the poor?
In most states, including Nevada, Medicaid covers primarily low-income families with small children, pregnant women and some seniors. Under both bills, Medicaid would be expanded, including a new category for childless adults who make less than about $14,500 annually.
Will my Medicare or Veterans Affairs care change?
Medicare will not change, nor will coverage from the VA. But both the House and Senate bills would make cuts to Medicare Advantage, which is popular among seniors but costs the government more to run than standard Medicare. That would result in certain benefits from Medicare Advantage being trimmed.
What will all of this cost?
The cost over 10 years of the House bill is estimated at $1 trillion, the Senate bill at $900 billion. Those costs come primarily from providing health coverage to people who are currently uninsured via subsidies, small-business tax credits and Medicaid expansion.
How will this be paid for?
Both bills would raise money through spending cuts and tax hikes. The House and Senate would both raise money by reducing Medicare costs, primarily by changing the way doctors and hospitals are paid and combating waste, fraud and abuse with stiffer fines.
The House bill would also impose new taxes on high-wage earners. The Senate bill would impose new taxes on employees with high-end health care plans, and on the insurance industry.
Will I have to pay new taxes for this?
That depends on your income. New taxes will fall mostly on those with high incomes. Under the House bill, families with incomes above $350,000 ($280,000 for individuals) would pay a new tax. The tax would be progressive, meaning it would rise with income — from 1 percent on family incomes above $350,000, 1.5 percent on incomes above $500,000 and 5.4 percent on incomes above $1 million.
Under the Senate bill, a new tax would be imposed on employees who receive so-called Cadillac insurance plans from their jobs which, like all employer insurance plans, are tax free. The Senate bill would put a 35 percent tax on every dollar of plans valued above $21,000 for families ($8,000 for individuals).
Also, the Senate plan reduces the tax shelter for Health Savings Accounts to $2,000.
Will small businesses have to provide insurance?
Companies would either provide insurance for their workers or pay a fee. In the Senate, companies with fewer than 50 employees could join the exchange. In the House, the number is smaller (10 workers in the first year of the program, 20 in the second), but Democratic Rep. Dina Titus succeeded in offering a committee amendment to boost the threshold to 50 employees.
What if small businesses cannot afford to provide health insurance?
Tax credits would be offered to help small businesses pay for health insurance for their workers. The House bill offers credits for 50 percent of health care costs to businesses with fewer than 10 employees, with the credit phasing out for companies with up to 20 employees or average wages of up to $40,000. The Senate bill initially offers a credit of 35 percent for employers with fewer than 25 employees and average wages below $40,000, then offers a credit of up to 50 percent once the exchange is operating.
Will companies have to pay new taxes?
Companies that do not provide insurance would pay new taxes or fees. The House bill would establish a new payroll tax that would rise to 8 percent on businesses making above $400,000. Companies making below $250,000 would be exempt.
The Senate bill would charge up to $400 per employee not covered at companies with more than 50 full-time workers.
Will the health care industry pay new taxes?
The Senate bill would levy new taxes on pharmaceutical companies ($2.3 billion), medical device manufacturers ($4 billion) and insurance companies ($6 billion).
Will the plan allow illegal immigrants to receive government insurance?
The House bill specifically states: “No Federal payment for undocumented aliens.” The Senate framework states: “No illegal immigrants will benefit from the health care tax credits.”
Republican Rep. Dean Heller is among those who believe illegal immigrants would slip into the system with forged identity cards. He offered an amendment to require citizenship verification, but it failed in committee.
Federal law for the past 20-plus years requires hospitals to accept emergency room patients regardless of immigration status.
Will this allow federally funded abortions?
A House amendment approved in committee reads: “Abortion coverage prohibited as part of minimum benefits package.” It allows federal funding for abortions under existing law, which is in the case of rape, incest or threat to the mother’s life. It prohibits funding in other circumstances.
What about medical malpractice reform?
Neither the House nor Senate legislation deals with tort reform. But the president believes “defensive medicine may be contributing to unnecessary costs.” Last week he launched demonstration projects which had been considered by the Bush administration to evaluate the issue.
Will this plan end up covering those who are uninsured?
The CBO initially estimated the number of uninsured would decline to 23 million, but said an expansion in Medicaid (which is now under consideration in the Senate plan) would reduce that number further.
What will be the effect on the federal deficit?
The CBO believes health care costs, without reform, are skyrocketing at an unsustainable rate and threatening the federal budget. However, early assessments by the CBO indicated the bills moving through Congress would not substantially lower the costs. The CBO suggested further measures could rein in costs, including the tax on high-end health plans now in the Senate proposal. The CBO is expected to release a new assessment shortly.
What happens now?
After the president’s address last week, congressional Democrats appeared re-energized to achieve health care reform, while Republicans seem equally enthusiastic about fighting it.
A final bill remains a long way away.
Five bills in Congress are pending. The House expects to merge its three bills and take them to the floor. The Senate expects to take its bills to the floor in three weeks. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid hopes to have a bill through the Senate by Thanksgiving.
The House and Senate bills will need to be merged before final passage.
Amazing how this explanation can occur when the President will not pick a bill as his policy. Having 5 different bills with conflicting items in each was by design.
The President can claim something is not in the bill while there is no printed version to read and find out.
The confusion on health care is not an accident. Like the stimulus this is kept in a cloud so when rushed through the administration can use the clouded language to do as they please.
The only solution is NO BILL
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wpdyn/cont...
I cannot remember anything that Obama said about healthcare last night. What I remember is his snarling smack down of his opposition.
He also used the address to very publicly rebuke those who do not trust him or believe him.
Obama in his address to the nation call opposition positions (Harry called them evilmonger and Nancy called them un-American) on 5 issues "a lie, plain and simple"
Remember when Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid called President George W. Bush a liar
Obama said "We've seen Washington at its best and at its worst"what we have also seen in these last months is the same partisan spectacle that only hardens the disdain many Americans have toward their own government. Instead of honest debate, we've seen scare tactics.
Obama said " assailed the "bogus claims" he says his critics have pushed. "But know this -- I will not waste time with those who have made the calculation ". to improve it. I won't stand by while the special interests use the same old tactics."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...
After declining for months to identify himself with the details of emerging legislation, President Obama for the first time embraced a set of ideas as "my plan." But the White House released scant specifics on legislation advertised as a done deal. Once again there is no plan specifics hence we cannot oppose Obama.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/...
Republicans have drawn up 35 different health care proposals, including the Tom Price (Rep-GA) H.R.3400 - Small Business Health Fairness Act of 2009, this year, undermining President Obama's continued statements that opponents of his health care plan have no solutions.
------------------
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/...
Health care policy researchers are contradicting President Obama's claim that a government-run health insurance program would be self-sufficient and could rely on premiums, saying it's not possible to insure up to 30 million people with better coverage and reduce costs at the same time.
In his case to the joint session of Congress Wednesday night, Obama cited the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office to contend that less than 5 percent of Americans would sign up for a so-called public option.
Yes, the health care bill notes that coverage will not be applied to illegal immigrants. But without an enforcement mechanism, there is no way to stop illegals from getting health care. There were two amendments which would have actually enforced this provision, but both were defeated by the Democratic majority. Thus when Joe Wilson said, "You Lie", he was correct.
it's real simple boys and girls...
you either support health care reform...
or...
you support the greedy pig insurance companies and the money grubbing whore doctors...
period!!!
end of story!!!
I cannot believe all this bickering about bickering. Of course there is not bill YET. It is a process. Please review how a bill becomes a law. Finally we have an issue that needs to be paid for and we bicker about the cost.
As far as these claims about socialism. Those who complain about that should school individually pay for the roads that they drive on, pay for their own children to become educated instead of sending them to public school and should not ever use Medicaid or cash a Social Security check.
The point is there are times when we have to rely on government for help. This health care plan is not socialism. It is simply one of those times.
Finally I have voted for both republicans and democrats. Republicans have come up with 35 bills??? The number is irrelevant. None of them resolve the issue. If they find even ONE that might possibly work they need to speak up and be heard.
In the word of Joe Wilson, to the Sun you are a liar.
You lie because you fail to mention CBO estimates that state that ObamaCare cost will skyrocketed after 10 to 12 years.
LIAR!!!!!!
In the word of Joe Wilson, to the Sun you are a liar.
You lie because you failed to mention a study, "Treatment of Noncitizens in H.R. 3200", by the Congressional Research Study (a government agency) which states, "H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens participating in and paying for coverage available through the [Health Insurance] Exchange -- whether the noncitizens are legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently."
Also in the same CR it says about the same House bill that it opens the door for more illegals to use Medicaid and SCHIP.
I hope everybody does know that the Sun is the offical talking points publication for the Democratic Party.
I guess the lib koolaid drinkers have dropped the lie that ObamaCare will reduce the cost of medical care.
The Sun makes no mention of that Obama "fact".
I guess they know that would be an outrageous lie.
In the words of Joe Wilson, to the Sun you are a liar.
The Sun states, "Medicare will not change" and yet in another statement it says there will be hundred of billions in cuts to it.
Hmmmmmmm...can't keep your story straight.
Yep..... hundred of billions in cuts and no changes. It will all come from waste and fraud. Impressive.....the same government that has allowed this supposely waste and fraud for decade after decade will magically find the means to do it now.
You believe that......I got a foreclosed beach from house to sell you on Trop and Maryland.
If you do not believe it then the truth will be a combination of higher deficits, higher taxes and reducations in services and benefits in Medicare.
Sun's illogical points or more likely, lying points:
"thus driving down the cost of insurance"
How does placing a cap out-of-pocket and co-pays drive down the cost of insurance?
How does covering pre-existing conditions drive down the cost of insurance?
How does removing the cap on insurance payouts drive down the cost of insurance?
Will this plus the additional number of people on insurance also place more demand on the current over burden medical system?
Will not we will have to build more hospitals, hire more doctors, hire more nurses, buy more equipment?
Because of this, I am confident that both the "public option" and private insurance premiums will rise a faster rate then the recent historic rate.
keep calling that little maggot joe wilson @ (202) 225-2452...
what a coward that little maggot is...
and most importantly...
make sure you send a little check to his next opponent...
here is the link to donate to the next representative from that pathetic state known as south carolina...
contribute now!!!
http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraiser.........
Libertarians want to destroy America.
Sgt Rock,
We know whose kool-aid you're drinking and it's self serving and unproductive.
For tony48 and others who say the "Of course there is not bill YET. It is a process." HR-3200 is still out there just waiting for Polosi to call for it's vote in the full House. And she will do it whenever she "knows" she has enough votes to pass it.
I thought the President was sincere in his attempt to get meaningful health reform. But now I am beginning to think that he is playing "bait and switch" politics. He states the contents of his "Bill" or "Plan" but does not back it up with legislation. I think he wants HR-3200 to pass because it is the basis of a government takeover of the health care system.
First and foremost, if the plan that Obama is hawking, he and all the other politicians should be required to have that plan too!!!! Why should there be one set of rules for the politicians and another for the rest of the country. That downright smells of phoniness.
If they're not required to obtain it or follow the rules, then neither should we be.
sgtNanceRock and LarryVegas,
TWIN SONS OF DIFFERENT MOTHERS.
Right on topic there gmag39...
The Dems talk about saving by cutting costs in Medicare thus punishing seniors, the ones who can least take it. How about the abuse of the welfare system. Billions are being stolen from tax payers each day with welfare fraud and no one seems to care. Make these deadbeats earn their handout in some way. They keep popping out babies one after the other to get fatter checks when they cannot even feed the one or two they have while we all pay the tab. Then they have a cousin watch their bunch, they watch the cousin's bunch and they BOTH collect CHILD CARE fees for watching their family kids.. some racket!! I call it FRAUD.
Thank you gmag and Larryvegas......all you have are personal insults which is a good indication of a brain dead koolaid drinker.
I take that to mean you have zero arguments to present.
Thanks for raising the white flag.
At least, you did not play the obnoxious race card which is another big sign of raising the white flag, too.
Hold the phone there SgtRock... My response to gmag was mocking in nature for him going off topic. Maybe I could have worded it different...
Sorry....thought you were agreeing with him.
Hats off to Joe wilson for bringing to light that there is no provision for E-verify in this bill to insure American Citizens are the only recipients for the Health bill. By Friday Obama, and the House added e-verify as a protection to the bill. So the House members sneering at Joe Wilson for calling out Obamas statement a lie are either ignorant because they haven't read the bill or are for the illegals because they have read the bill and are going along with Obama. This is not the first time our elected officials have lied to their constituents. I guess this shows us that the majority of our Politicians can't be trusted.
Just think if all of our politicians were as honest as Joe, our country would be alot better off than it is today.
Rep. Joe Wilson R-NC although out of line was telling the truth with his outburst in Congress at the time, The President stated no illegal immigrants could register for federal health care? In previously sessions, twice house Democrats have declined to add the correct language in the health care reform package. That would identify illegal immigrants accessing the public option health care or any kind of deterrent? Yes! Joe Wilson was correct until the day after as frustrated and justly angry Americans overrun the Washington switchboards at 202-224-3121 demanding their was a gaping loophole that illegal nationals could still qualify for government run health care provisions.
E-Verify a composite of the SAVE ACT could easily be adapted to unearth illegal immigrants trying to claim Obamacare? DEMAND E-VERIFICATION AS AN IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT TOOL, FOR EVERY WORKPLACE IN AMERICA. NOT JUST FOR NEW HIRES? MAKE SURE THEY REAUTHORIZE IT AFTER SEPTEMBER 30? DON'T GIVE THEM BREATHING ROOM? Like always the Democratic leadership kept a veiled silence, either intentional or not fully understanding the massive 1000 page health care reform package. More true answers and not propaganda can be learned at NUMBERSUSA & JUDICIAL WATCH websites. Anything to do with enforcing immigration laws are either weakened or tabled in the Senate.
Wealthy senators are in the deep pockets of the special interest lobbyists. As I speak they are pushing to rescind 287 G. local authorities apprehension of illegal immigrants. Another enforcement law to overturn is the No Match Letter. They cut funding for the original fence and President Obama and the Dem Leaders are pursuing another behemoth blanket Amnesty, instead of correcting the 1986 Immigration Act with amendments. It's not broken, just abused and never enforced. Just remember that any path to citizenship, will open the doors to automatic infestation of Obama medical care for the new legalized immigrants and all the family members who follow. Incidentally I'm for Health care reform with the public option? The time has come, just like other industrialized nations.
Rock I have to admit you put out some good opinions, but this koolaid drinker caca tells me that you are having a hard time breaking away from high school. I respect your comments,but I can't agree with some of their contents.
Federal laws for 20 years have required hospitals to accept emergency room patients regardless of immigration status. This doesn't mean that any part of our health bill covers illegals medical bills. If hospitals are going out of business because they aren't reimbursed by the government for the illegals' medical bills, let's blame the government for not protecting our hospitals when in fact they are trying to make our American society accept the fact that this is the way it is, and not protecting the rights of the American citizen or hospitals.
How many times are our elected offials going to claim ignorance to problems that if they would have either read the bill, made sure our laws are upheld, or sponsor a bill with their constituents in mind, we wouldn't be having the problems we have today. Vote out the incumbents and let us start with a brand new slate. We have got to let our voted elite know that we mean business and won't put up with any more of this s%*t any more
fremmasmind, thank you. That was my POINT.
Larry and Nance keep posting inane nonsense, incessantly repeating themselves but saying nothing but the same thing, over and over and over.
I respect EVERYONE'S right to express their opinion, as long as it has an actual POINT.
Nance, I gotta say, you've been off your game.
Larry, well... he ain't got game.
Hey gmag... Your previous comment: "sgtNanceRock and LarryVegas,TWIN SONS OF DIFFERENT MOTHERS."
Talk about "inane nonsense..."
And that was gmag first post on this discussion, and sure added a lot to this discussion topic.
gmag respects EVERYONE'S right to express their opinion, as long as it conforms to gmag's views...
gmag sounds more like the President every day. A lot of rhetoric and very little substance.
Why, thank you, Larry.
That's nice of you to say.
For the record, larry, my oft-repeated refrain on health care reform is this:
Tea Parties, right-wing nuts & finger-pointing name callers
will not stop what the MAJORITY OF AMERICANS DESIRE;
Health Care Reform. Sooner than later.
If your are against people receiving adequate, available health care, you are in the minority, and have problems assimilating yourself into a society that values ALL people, not just "decent, well bred white folks."
What "facts" do you dispute in Ms. Mascaro's story, Larry? Please, elucidate.
I will await your reasoned, respectful response.
Thank you, Larry, for being part of the process.
And Larry, please, for the love of God, stop asking every clown who posts why they say "teabaggers." We get it.
And if your twin brother would stop with the daily "kool-aid, Messiah, dumbocrat, liar" talk, I would also be eternally grateful.
Sincerely and Respectfully Yours,
gmag.
People need to look at the big picture. When the government is given the power to force all American citizens to buy health insurance this will be the beginning of the end of everything this country is about. I heard Obama say that every uninsured American is only an accident away from financial ruin and bankrupcy. That sounds like a scare tactic to me. Illegal's will continue to drain the system because they will not be turned away from hospitals, so we will still be paying for them. Homeless will still use the e.r. for shelter and food and drugs, we will pay even more for them because we will be paying to insure them now. Lawyers will continue to file ridiculous lawsuits. If the insurance companies will be required to provide for anyone no matter what the illness, the insurance companies will be bankrupt in no time. Then the government can bail the insurance companies with our money. I do not understand how anyone could look at the proposal and think it is a good idea.
gmag's comment: "What "facts" do you dispute in Ms. Mascaro's story, Larry? Please, elucidate." gmag, please show me where I questioned any of Ms. Mascaro's story...
Another gmag comment: "If your are against people receiving adequate, available health care, you are in the minority, and have problems assimilating yourself into a society that values ALL people, not just "decent, well bred white folks."
gmag, If you have ever taken the time to read my previous posts, you would know that I am for health reform, but not a government takeover of the existing health care system.
And your remark "...not just "decent, well bred white folks." Sounds a little too racist to me.
Lastly, name calling should be above all of us. When someone uses a "dirty" word, I will call them on it...
Have a nice life, Larry.
So, someone remind me again, when republicans controlled congress and the Presidency for 6 years - and were willing to turn a balanced budget into a $600 Billion deficit (that's $2,000 per person per year), what health care plan did they draft, present, and vote on?
None, you say? Oh. But NOW I'm supposed to believe their 35 separate health care bills are superior to anything they could think up in the past 15 years since opposing Clinton's efforts at reform?
Bottom line ... do we as a country believe people should die on our streets from lack of health care ... "yes" is an acceptable answer for some countries, "no" for others ... where do we stand? If we say "no", people should not die, then the next question is WHO PAYS? This involves taxes, if shared evenly and equitably, or involves individual hospitals and insurance plans building in reserves for charity care with no central planning or rationale or concern about distribution of need.
Medicare Advantage - will be trimmed as it is to expensive. Medicare Advantage is a premium plan that is an add-on to your basic Medicare Package. By Trimming this plan they are indeed removing waste.
Our President wants a "BIPARTISAN" Solution to health care reform. He has always stated this...this identifies that he wanted the House and Senate to create a bill that was responsible and assistive to the world.
The House, Senate and many other Government postions are currently are on a Government Health Care Plan that provides their medical coverage and is not an optional service.
All Healthcare Costs Sky Rocket it is the way of supply and demand. However, currently our healthcare is on a 60% incline whereas an alternative Insurance plan would ideally drop that in half or more.
Caps on Pre-Existing conditions, Copays and similar fee for service options would indeed raise some costs however, have the dual effect of lowering others. Additionally, the insurance companies currently are billion dollar profit agencies that are limiting care to make more profit. If these services where 'capped' and beneficial to the users then you are essentially spending some of the profit that the insurance agents are collecting. This is simple math...you have 10 people giving 5 dollars and 5 people suddenly need 2 dollars for care. They are still making 3 dollars...correct? This being the case why not increase the amount that can be used by each person so that there is less profit to be had.
They're failing to see something else that could be done to lower health-care costs.
If line-item DISCOUNTS on HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUMS were AWARDED to people who did not smoke; who did not drink alcohol, who were within 10# of their desired weight (by height/weight accepted charts), who had not FILED A CLAIM for each and every 120 days, that at the end of those 120 days, there would be a REDUCTION OF PREMIUM; and every 180 days thereafter with a time-window of 36 months before it would renew itself, and begin again, these are some of the ways individuals COULD LOWER THEIR OWN PREMIUMS and not BE PENALIZED for having excellent health, and not using the insurance coverage program, or costing an insurance carrier money while keeping current with their premiums.
They don't work from A REWARD SYSTEM FIRST; FROM A PREVENTION SYSTEM FIRST, they work from trying to FORCE EVERY ONE TO HAVE COVERAGE, when in many cases, there are religious constraints and personal viewpoints, that cause people to not participate in what we call 'modern-day' medicine.
Because insurance companies are 'high=profit based'; doctors want to live like kings and queens, and hospitals also want to rake in profits, this is a humane issue that's suffering from a profit-oriented consortium of near-crooks!
People should be allowed to buy a variety of packages; if they just want emergency care service, and nothing more, then let them pick up the costs but still protect them in an emergency situation.
They're not being creative in any of this; they're just leveling a shot-gun at it, and blowing it into a nightmare for many.
It doesn't behoove any of our senators; representatives, or any member of the executive branch of government to really be concerned about this, because they have HIGH CLASS GOVERNMENT-PROVIDED HEALTH CARE INSURANCE.
They didn't develop stop-gaps for this crisis 40 years ago when it started; now they're trying to fix it with all kinds of mumbo-jumbo.
The insurance companies will win out on this no matter how you slice it.
I don't buy half this BS:
"The penalties levied against those without insurance would be $750 a year"
So if I am self employed and make more than the poverty level do I get insurance for a year for the $750?
"because some companies will likely opt not to provide coverage, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates that the share of people covered by their employer would drop about by 10 percent, or 15 million"
Wanna bet? Everybody who can is going to drop their employee's coverage.
"Subsidies would be offered on a sliding scale in the House bill for those with incomes up to $88,000 annually for a family of four"
In case you didn't get what this means: your "rich" if you make more than 88K
"Under both bills, Medicaid would be expanded, including a new category for childless adults who make less than about $14,500 annually"
get that: if you make minimum wage and you are in an entry level job working your way up the ladder you now qualify for Medicaid.
"Medicare will not change, nor will coverage from the VA. But both the House and Senate bills would make cuts to Medicare Advantage"
Huh? Is that a real sentence?
"The cost over 10 years of the House bill is estimated at $1 trillion"
Make that a least 3 trillion
"families with incomes above $350,000 ($280,000 for individuals) would pay a new tax"
The large majority of these people are business owners who have no problem keeping their income below these levels. Therefore, there won't be as much money as predicted. Do you want me to go on?
1st, it seems that lib left are in complete disarry as being abandoned their leader Obama.
2nd, math like the above has already doom our country and will just make the day of doom come quicker.
The US is already paying $800 billion a year in interest.
That is expected to double to about $1.5 trillion in 6 years.
All that will happen with or without this massive explosion in government health care program that is being proposed.
In countries that have massive government healthcare programs they grow and grow out of control. They eventually turn to rationing as the only means to bring that under control.
Government is the least efficient machine to run anything.
There is absolutely no movitivation for government workers or managers to strive for productivity or quality service.
Once a government worker or manager gets past their probation period then it almost takes an act of God of an act of crime of felony to get the worker/manager fired.
The average Federal employee gets paid around $70,000 a year. The average private worker gets around $15,000 a year in benefits. A Federal employee gets around $40,000 a year in benefits.
We are doomed.
It is just a matter of time.
The tipping point will occur when investors will demand extremely high interest rates to buy US bonds.
Hyper-inflation will become a daily fact.
When is the Republican Plan coming out. The last we heard about it was when they put empty paper in a folder claiming it was theirs.
"The Senate bill would charge up to $400 per employee not covered at companies with more than 50 full-time workers"
I wonder what businesses like The Venetian, who I am sure pay more than $400/month/employee on health insurance will do under this plan?
" The Senate bill would levy new taxes on pharmaceutical companies ($2.3 billion), medical device manufacturers ($4 billion) and insurance companies ($6 billion)"
Noooooo, that won't cause any problems. All businesses have an unlimited amount of profit and money. Why not include the Cadillac dealers, lobster fisherman.....
" Republican Rep. Dean Heller is among those who believe illegal immigrants would slip into the system with forged identity cards. He offered an amendment to require citizenship verification, but it failed in committee"
Why would that be? Had enough?
HR-3400 is a health reform bill introduced by Rep Tom Price of Georgia on 07/30/09. It has 34 co-sponsors. It is still in committee and will probably not see the light of day due to the Democrats controlling all committee actions.
Of course, the only bill to make it out of committee was HR-3200.
With the Democrats controlling Congress, they probably will not allow a competing bill to make it out of committee for a full vote of the House.
The President has stated numerous times that he has a plan/bill, but he has not came forward with anything but his talking points.
It appears that the President is playing a "bait and switch" game where he talks about one thing and passes something completely different.
To answer Vegasvampire: If you were a Congressman, would you take the time to write a bill when you know that the opposing political party controlled the entire process and your bill would never make it out of sub committee to be debated by the full committee?
HR-3200 is a Democrat bill supposedly written by SEIU and entered into the House without consulting Republications. It made it to the full floor of the House and is waiting for Nancy Polosi to call for a vote. Republican lawmakers submitted several amendments to HR-3200 but each one was voted down along party lines. One of these amendments that was voted down was to clarify that no illegal aliens would obtain any benefits from this bill.
It takes two teams to play ball and the Democrats have not invited the Republicans to play ball with them.
BobbyG you couldn't think of anything substantial to disagree with me on. However, you are very clever to think of such an original name to call me by in such a subtle way. It is obvious that you do not take seriously the freedom that has been obtained only by the sacrifice and the strength of American soldiers and their families. With weakness and fear our freedom is being given away, once it's gone it's gone. It is sad that you choose sarcasm. I did not spin anything, if you would have watched the president's speech you would have heard him say that in order for his plan to work every American will be required to have health insurance, if you are what the government considers poor you will be covered by taxpayer dollars. If you are what the government defines as not poor you will have to buy health insurance.
BobbyG: Since you asked about a Republication Health Reform Bill.
I have copied only the titles and bill heading.
You can view the complete bill at thomas.loc.gov
HR 3400 IH
111th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 3400
To provide for incentives to encourage health insurance coverage, and for other purposes.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
July 30, 2009
Mr. PRICE of Georgia (for himself, Mr. AKIN, Mr. ALEXANDER, Mr. SCALISE, Mrs. BACHMANN, Mr. SOUDER, Mr. MILLER of Florida, Mr. BURTON of Indiana, Mr. JORDAN of Ohio, Mr. GINGREY of Georgia, Mr. ROE of Tennessee, Mr. CASSIDY, Mr. LAMBORN, Mr. FLEMING, Mrs. LUMMIS, Mr. WAMP, Mr. MARCHANT, Mr. ROONEY, Mr. COFFMAN of Colorado, and Ms. FALLIN) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Energy and Commerce, and in addition to the Committees on Ways and Means, Education and Labor, Oversight and Government Reform, the Judiciary, Rules, the Budget, and Appropriations, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned
________________________________________
A BILL
To provide for incentives to encourage health insurance coverage, and for other purposes.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
TITLE I--TAX INCENTIVES FOR MAINTAINING HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE
TITLE II--HEALTH INSURANCE POOLING MECHANISMS FOR INDIVIDUALS
TITLE III--INTERSTATE MARKET FOR HEALTH INSURANCE
TITLE IV--SAFETY NET REFORMS
TITLE V--MEDICAL LIABILITY AND UNCOMPENSATED CARE REFORMS
TITLE VI--WELLNESS AND PREVENTION
TITLE VII--TRANSPARENCY AND INSURANCE REFORM MEASURES
TITLE VIII--QUALITY
TITLE X--PHYSICIAN PAYMENT REFORM
TITLE XI--INCENTIVES TO REDUCE PHYSICIAN SHORTAGES
TITLE XII--OFFSETS
God Bless President Obama and the Democratic congress for standing up to the status quo and doing what is right for lower and middle-class america! Healthcare reform will enable people to get medical attention that today they often forgoe or if they do get it they are then plunged into a horror of debt and bill collectors dogging them for years (if not out right bankruptcy).
The republican machine is going to try to destroy anything the Democrats put forward - even if it does contain some republican planks. Many of them are out to destroy President Obamma and the Demoncratic party. My thoughts are -- pass healthcare reform without the Republicans. Thye aren't playing fair and the good people of this country don't need to have our time wasted by their lies and immoral and racists tactics.
I am caucasian - voted of bush vs gore, kerry vs bush on the 2nd run and President Obamma this time. Over the long run I've voted republican equal to times I have voted democrat - the behavior, rhetoric and outlright cyncism coming out of the conservative movement and the Republican party has turned me away. I hope civil americans can see through the lies and manipulation these people are filling the airwaves with.
Support Healthcare Reform and the middle-class platform of the democratic party!
God Bless America!!!
Hey Carp,
In your post @4:46pm on 9/13, you are correct. And every american should have insurance because if some are allowed not to have it the rest of us end up paying for their health coverage when they go bankrupt trying to pay for healthcare out of pocket. Paying out of pocket just isn't a real optiion intoday's high priced healthcare environment.
Don't be against that provision -- it is the right solution for a huge problem!
God Bless America!
Hey M_ZERK: What do you mean by "... racists tactics."?
It takes two teams to play ball and the Democrats own the ball field have not invited the Republicans to play ball with them.
As it stands now, people who are insured privately are paying for the healthcare costs of non-insured through taxes, but only for minimal care. Bigger costs are prevented by the policies in existence today. If ObamaCare passes, the non-insured will have total coverage, no limits, and that will bankrupt the government, unless the Democrats and Obama stick us with a 50-60 per cent income tax (as in Canada and the U.K.).
BobbyG: I concur with you on HR-3200 which I have examined extensively. I have read parts of HR-3400 and not real excited about it but it is not near as vague as HR-3200. I have not read HR-676 but will do since you mention it.
Can't we just get along - ok,the bottom line should be simple - health care for all and no one should die because they are denied care. It is simple - we MUST do what it takes to achieve this. We need to catch up to all the industrialized countries (ALL) who are ahead of us. We are last, we can do better!
To Littlered:
It is very obvious that you are misinformed as to the history of welfare and today's welfare system. Welfare was created by Democrats and allowed for all the things you speak of plus so very much more. During Pres. Clinton's second term the control of Congress shifted to Republican for the first time in 40 years. Shortly after the control of Congress shifted to the Republicans Welfare reform was passed. This reform took away the monthly checks you mention and in it's place gave a one time support payment of up to $1000 no matter how many children a person has now or in the future. Now to address the statement about one cousin keeping the other cousins child(ren) and both collecting child care reimbursement. I'm sorry butI have to get a bit nasty...this shows your true ignorance. Under the current Welfare program eligibility requirements, you must be a licenced child care provider and be registered/vetted with Health and Human Services as such in order to gain reimbersement.
Now, I am not at all saying that fraud does not still exist. More reform should be done to the Welfare system. However, the current system is a far cry from the old Welfare system created by Democrats which allowed people to continue collect checks for years on end.
All of these Social Services were created and passed by Democrats. Democrats now want socialized health care not reform. These Social Services are bankrupting, i.e. Social Security. Given the historical life of the Social Services created by Democrats, we should be terrified of the outcome of yet another Democrat created Social Service. This one is more terrifying because we will have no choice but to be a part of it whereas now we can choose, in most cases, not to a part of the Welfare programs.
liberals want to take money from YOUR paycheck and give it to child molesters to pay for their healthcare.
You get fined for not having health insurance? How many people are driving with no car insurance?
How many are driving with no license?
Government is not the answer.
CASH for CLUNKERS was to cost ONE BILLION NOT 3BILLION..... They can't get that right what makes you think they can get this right ???? as for Joe Wilson I live in Las Vegas Nevada and very proud of that I sent him money for his election as much the law allows I say you to give that cash to help http://www.joewilsonforcongress.com
Washington Democrats and their liberal allies want to divert attention away from the concerns about the massive government takeover of health care. In fact, they have made me their Number One target -- already raising more than a million dollars to attack me.
But I will not give up and I will not back down from our fight. We will not be muzzled.
I need your help today.
Will you please make a donation to help me fight back against these unwavering attacks?
Thank you for standing with me in this fight.
I just keep thinking, "Where is the Republican's Plan???" Maybe the same place Waldo is located, where Rush Limbaugh placed his prescription drugs he abused, or the Republican's dignity.
I still don't understand the problem with the 'option' of having the less expensive public plan on the table for all Americans. If you want to keep your private insurance, go ahead. You'll pay more for it, and in return you'll probably get better service and care.
If you can't afford private insurance, then at least the government will be providing you with the fundamentals - basic care that every citizen deserves. It may not be the best and you may have to wait longer than the private insurance carriers, but hey, at least it's there and one can feel comfortable they will not go bankrupt should they get sick.
If you don't want to take the public city bus for $1 and deal with all the people and the slow drive times, then you take the private cab or limo. Pay more, get there faster and ride in style. But it costs money. If you don't want to send your kid to public college for the average education, you pay more and send them to private college for the better education.
This is the epitome of choice and personal freedom. I fail to see how having a public insurance option is any different than any of the many other examples of how public & private coexist. Oh FYI, FedEx would be about as profitable as the USPS if they charged $.44 to send mail anywhere in the US, cab companies wouldn't last a week in business charging $1 each way, and Princeton wouldn't be able to hire their outstanding faculty staying within state budgets.
There will be no Health Care Reform without including Tort Reform no matter how much lipstick you put on this pig. It might be nice to see the Obamacare package in writing since he lies a lot. The L on Obaminations forehead grows larger each day. Don't believe it????? Look at the poll numbers. Included in the L is the democratic controlled congress.
Hey vegasvampire: At 4:17 yesterday you asked "When is the Republican Plan coming out." At 4:32 yesterday I posted the following:
HR-3400 is a health reform bill introduced by Rep Tom Price of Georgia on 07/30/09. It has 34 co-sponsors. It is still in committee and will probably not see the light of day due to the Democrats controlling all committee actions.
Of course, the only bill to make it out of committee was HR-3200.
With the Democrats controlling Congress, they probably will not allow a competing bill to make it out of committee for a full vote of the House.
The President has stated numerous times that he has a plan/bill, but he has not came forward with anything but his talking points.
It appears that the President is playing a "bait and switch" game where he talks about one thing and passes something completely different.
This morning at 05:15, you asked again: "Where is the Republican's Plan???"
vegasvampire: It appears that you are not much more then a "heckler." You make statements and ask questions that others here take serious and take to time to answer your questions. You either don't read the answers or just don't care.
If you did not agree with my answer to your original question, why did you not respond.
Uddeboda,
Very insightful.
http://www.freemarketcure.com/brainsurge...
Thanks AngryReader, I was trying to think of it's name.
SCHOOL HOUSE ROCK
I'm just a bill.
Yes, I'm only a bill.
And I'm sitting here on Capitol Hill.
Well, it's a long, long journey
To the capital city.
It's a long, long wait
While I'm sitting in committee,
But I know I'll be a law someday
At least I hope and pray that I will,
But today I am still just a bill.
I'm just a bill
Yes I'm only a bill,
And I got as far as Capitol Hill.
Well, now I'm stuck in committee
And I'll sit here and wait
While a few key Congressmen discuss and debate
Whether they should let me be a law.
How I hope and pray that they will,
But today I am still just a bill.
I'm just a bill
Yes, I'm only a bill
And if they vote for me on Capitol Hill
Well, then I'm off to the White House
Where I'll wait in a line
With a lot of other bills
For the president to sign
And if he signs me, then I'll be a law.
How I hope and pray that he will,
But today I am still just a bill.
But how I hope and I pray that I will,
But today I am still just a bill.
Does this mean I will have to ask the Chinese for my viagra prescription?
"STOP! Read this NOW"
I would try, but your writing put me in a coma...
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.