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The Associated Press
President Barack Obama addresses a joint session of Congress Wednesday evening to discuss health care.
Published Wednesday, Sept. 9, 2009 | 4:28 p.m.
Updated Wednesday, Sept. 9, 2009 | 10:12 p.m.
Outburst during Obama speech
Related story
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, left, stands on the floor with Senate Majority Whip Richard Durbin on the floor before President Barack Obama spoke about healthcare reform before a joint session of congress on Capitol Hill in Washington, Wednesday, Sept. 9, 2009.
Stating His Case
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Response from Harry Reid
"I applaud President Obama for laying out a clear and concise vision of what health insurance reform will mean for America: stability and security for those who have insurance today and affordable coverage for those who don't.
"The President's outline will be helpful as the Senate spends the next several weeks crafting and passing legislation that preserves patients' choice, lowers costs and improves the quality of care.
"Now that the President has spoken, those who have opposed reform have a choice to make. They can continue to spread falsehoods about reform as they defend the status quo or they can step up to the plate and offer genuine ideas to strengthen the proposals before Congress.
"We all know that the cost of inaction is too great and that doing nothing is simply not an option. As the President said tonight, 'Now is the season for action.' It's time for both sides of the aisle to come together for common sense reform that relieves the burden of skyrocketing costs that are breaking the backs of American families."
WASHINGTON -- A presidential speech to a joint session of Congress is often a raucous affair – with cheers, hollers, boos and hisses depending on the partisan mood. But shouting “You lie!” in the middle of President Barack Obama’s speech Wednesday night broke new ground.
It’s one thing to call the president the l-word, as Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid did after President George W. Bush approved Yucca Mountain.
It’s another to heckle the president in the House chamber during a rare joint session of Congress.
“I’ve never seen it so ugly before,” said Rep. Shelley Berkley, the six-term Las Vegas Democrat. “Yelling out in the middle of a speech, a presidential address to Congress, is demeaning to the office.”
The outburst punctuated the gaping divide over the health care debate. The split could be seen Wednesday night in overtly stark terms, as Democrats leapt to their feet to applaud Obama while Republicans often sat sternly silent.
When Obama said he was not the first president to take up health care reform, “but I am determined to be the last” Democrats cheered. Republicans did not stir.
Obama drew hisses from the Republican side of the aisle when he called out the “scare tactics” being made by opponents of health care reform. Democrats alone jumped to their feet as he said, “The time for bickering is over.”
When the president acknowledged “there remain some significant details to be ironed out,” Republicans laughed out loud.
Chuckles and boos and hisses are fair game at speeches like this.
But when South Carolina Republican Rep. Joe Wilson pointed his finger and shouted “You lie!” it drew gasps.
The outburst came over the hot-button issue of illegal immigration as Obama took issue with those he said have falsely claimed that illegal immigrants would be able to access government-backed health care.
The issue has been important in Nevada, where Republican Rep. Dean Heller offered an amendment in committee that would to require citizenship verification to prevent illegal immigrants from receiving subsidies for care.
“There are those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants,” Obama said. “This, too, is false – the reforms I’m proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.”
At that the South Carolina lawmaker shouted that the president was lying.
“Everybody was appalled and angered something like that would happen on the floor of the House,” said Democratic Rep. Dina Titus, who was sitting across the chamber.
The speech went on without missing a beat. More cheers and grumbles. When the president said he was open to ideas, Republicans held up their legislative paperwork.
But in what political scientists have come to call this hyper-partisan era of American politics, the tenor of the night, as has been the case with so much of the health care debate, offered another example of the divide.
Just watched it....Didn't do anything for me except angered me that he insists on snubbing his nose at people. He comes off to me an "American Hugo Chavez". Snubbing his nose at people will have a backlash on him and his arrogant party.
Let's add the cost savings programs:
1) Give 30 to 50 million (I guess they are including the illegals) government healthcare
2) Give regular health insurance to those who have pre-existing conditions
3) Take away the limits on health coverage
Yep.....we should save trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions by doing all that.
Gold is trading over $1,000 per oz.
With this crap, it will jump to $10,000 per oz in about 6 years.
Same old party line politics from the top. I don't think he has read HR-3200 or any other bill.
Why doesn't the President put his talking points in a piece of legislation?
barack is whack.
This wont cost anything. The stimulus will keep unemployment from rising. I had to take over the car companies to save them. The bank bailout will make credit flow.
Yeah, I believe this crew. Health care for all will make it more affordable and not cost Americans anything. Seniors wont suffer with cuts to Medicare and the tooth fairy will leave money under your pillow
More of the same ole crapola. Show me the savings from waste fraud and abuse and some spending cuts first............
nance, or sgt.rocker to the uninitiated, is a guy with a job but NO health insurance. He goes to the hospital, enjoys a private room, gets good care, goes home. He talks the hospital into reducing his bill, and then counts on a charity to pick up "the bulk of the rest of it."
THAT is his idea of how the system should work. Simple!
Where is the list of all these charities, flush with $$$, to pay for the millions of uninsured/under-insured people? And do we ask for "the Nance discount" at the hospital check-out?
Public option is what we need.
Go forward now.
why don't you idiots on the rightwing nut cases just move to south carolina with congressman joe wilson, you'd fit in real well. make sure to take your dixie flags and your illiterate families with you. don't worry about leaving your mormon cultists, they have a bunch of religious fanatics there. hope you like country music and grits.
Joe Wilson, was a supporter of Lester Maddox of Georgia (who handed out axe handles at his Pickwick chicken restaurant to keep blacks away), it's obvious that the right wing talk show radio stations encourage this type of racist disruption.
Hopefully the fairness doctrine will be put into effect as the next step to balance this bigotry on the radio waves.
formervegas76
Hope you get sick in Canada and use their public option. MORON!
i love grits
Now the sniping and backbiting will begin in earnest. Nothing will change, same will remain th same; in the end the insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies will have won the day. The people who really want health insurance reform will get nothing but smoke and mirrors from all sides.
Commentators, media pundits and other so-called experts like Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Coulter and others will begin taking their icy knife cuts at everything to do with the reform movement. In the end, we the people, Democrat, Republican, Independent and uncommitted will all suffer...Pre-existing conditions will still be allowed, bureaucrats and clerks in government and in the health care insurance business will continue to tell you what you can and cannot receive. Time passes and nothing changes.
The backbitters, snipers and demogogues will continue to rail against any changes and actually they will win in the long run. Changes will be like a mirage in the desert...now you see it,now you don't. Now you have insurance coverage, and now you don't any more.... Once you were eligible for a certain prescirption, but not now.... It will remain the same because there no longer is unity in this country....
Lawyers will continue to sue for insignificant and imagined injuries and will continue to reap the rich rewards of their unholy profession... Change seems possible, but nothing will change....
Joe Wilson was brave. Obama IS a liar.
There is no enforcement provision in any of the proposed legislation. Without enforcing identification as a legal citizen for healthcare then illegals can continue to game the system. Once again very simple common sense.
Taxpayers cannot afford to pay for themselves much less foreigners.
formervegas76: It's so refreshing to have you back with all the name calling.
It amazes me how normal dullards, including Democrat talking heads from MSNBC and the Democrat politicians get sucked in by carefully worded statements in a politician's speeches.
"The reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally," Obama said.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson, R-S.C., shouted from his seat, jabbing a finger in the air.
Yes, in substance Obama made a materially misleading statement, a substantively false statement, yes in plain English a lawyer's lie.
The FACT is that illegal aliens all over the USA know that they can get free health care for non-life threatening conditions in any public hospital's emergency room in the United States, and they cannot be turned away. Here in Las Vegas, we taxpayers subsidize UMC to the tune of $56 Million for that purpose. UMC doesn't even bother to try to track down the illegals who get free medical care at UMC, to try to collect the costs of the care, yet if you are a U.S. citizen, they will hound you and turn you over to a collection agency if they are not paid.
THAT WILL NOT CHANGE IN ANY OBAMA OR DEMOCRAT HEALTH CARE PLAN. ILLEGAL ALIENS WILL CONTINUE TO GET FREE HEALTH CARE AT PUBLIC HOSPITALS' EMERGENCY ROOMS.
That fact was highlighted by the RJ's photographs of illegal aliens getting free kidney dialysis. "I don't want to go home" said one woman in Spanish. "I want to stay in Las Vegas where my friends are".
I have to ask you what are the chances that my diabetic daughter will not be billed for her dialysis at UMC when she needs it? Zero.
Obama lied. Illegal aliens will continue to receive free health care in the emergency rooms of public hospitals. Even if it's just an ear ache or an infected ingrown toe nail, they won't be turned away. Governor Schwartzenegger of California says this sort of free emergency room health care for illegal aliens is costing California's taxpayers more than $1 Billion per year.
On top of that subsidy, if a critically ill illegal alien shows up at a private hospital's emergency room, the private hospital has to treat the person, collect nothing, and pass on the cost to the paying customers. Tonight President Obama said this sort of free health care "to the uninsured" costs each insured person $1,000 per year in extra premiums.
I have repeatedly written to Senator Reid expressing the opinion that even though there is no formal free health care plan for illegal aliens, they know how to work the system, and where to go to the public hospitals to receive free care. I have received repeated responses from the Senator that the United States is "obligated" to deliver "humanitarian care" to illegal aliens.
F them. Let them die, like Americans with no health insurance have done for years.
Obama told a cleverly worded lawyer's lie, and Congressman Wilson called him on it. Bully for Congressman Wilson.
Drudge has Titus being opposed to the healthcare bill. Dina a dino?
DessertSun....I think you hit it right on the nail.
" Snubbing his nose at people will have a backlash on him and his arrogant party."
Obama, the elite media and the koolaid crowd are coming off as the biggest arrogant snobs ever.
No wonder the independents are running from them. They can't stand that arrogance.
This exceeds all my expectations - these comments convince me that people in Vegas are even stupider than I thought and nasty and negative. Obama is a breath of fresh air - this speech will surely stir up all the nut jobs on the right and the town meetings will get worse and I fear some of them will use the guns they carry. Obama is the greatest! Those who call him a liar are the real liars because to call him a liar is a true lie.
I think too many people use this site to spew RJ wingnut rhetoric rather than read or really listen to what Obama has to say. If it doesn't come from Fox, Drudge, etc... It can't be trusted. As if any of those sources are unbiased in any way.
LIAR!!!
LIAR, LIAR, LIIIIAAAAR!
A good, southern republican gentleman.
Talk about your arrogance. Ish.
Protect millions who have no coverage at all?
This is rediculous.
Especially if people are going to be fined if they don't get insurance. How stupid.
This is as close to socialism as your going to get.
CynicalObserver,
"F them. Let them die" I can see I'm engaging someone with a full deck... Dolt.
HR 3200 does not allow health care for illegal immigrants. The bill states, "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."
Illegals currently get health care in local run facilities, so your beef should be with the county, not the federal government. I wouldn't expect you to understand the difference tho.
If you're not interested in letting the uninsured or illegals have emergency health care, who will pay for tourists injured in American? You'll do a fine job killing international tourism in our city that produces nothing.
Is Obama a liar?
How can he say that his plan will help 30 million uninsured people get health care and then with the same lips say that illegals will not be covered?
OH....I get it....he is bad at math.
That explains the $2 trillion dollar deficit this year.
"How can he say that his plan will help 30 million uninsured people get health care and then with the same lips say that illegals will not be covered?"
Ummm... Because the bill says, "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."
It seems that a major concern is that illegal residents will receive benefits paid for with tax dollars. How about "big brother government" require everyone to present a passport before they receive anything that may have tax dollars attached. It may be a little like the old USSR's "papers" for everyone but if the Constitution gets ignored it won't be the first or last time will it? (satire intended).
Leaving people on the street to die, whether they're illegal or legal and just cant afford it, is barbaric. We don't do things like that in a civilized country.
But after watching a bunch of clips of Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, et. al. I can see there is no civility left on the right.
Free Health (no capital H) care for everyone, (no comma needed) and free food. How about free housing and cars. (question mark) This is why commie liberals get a bad name and their leader says spread the wealth. Time to break away, (period) I say we team up with Utah and Idaho and form the country IdaMormada. We'll let the you know who run everything (this isn't even a sentence), (period) this will be the end of free handouts. All Casino's (no apostrophe) and hoar (close...) houses in Nevada will be Grandfathered (no capital G) in, (no comma needed) and we will make Ensign the Zzar (CZar) of these businesses, keeping them on the straight and narrow. For this we will make polygamy legal throughout Idamormada. We will exil (need an E there) Harry Reid, and make Oren (Orrin) Hatch the King ! (no space) We'll put Cap Jack (CaptJack) in charge of the Navy (I'm more of an Army man myself) on Lake Mead (period)
I love all these pansy Repubes that come out of the woodwork to criticize the Commander in Chief. Bunch of friggin crybabies... grow a set or leave the country.
"I've never seen it so ugly before," said Rep. Shelley Berkley, the six-term Las Vegas Democrat. Ms. Berkley, it case you haven't got it yet, people do not want this!! Are you hard of hearing!
Cap jack o.f (I'm sure you can get away with off here) Cant (apostrophe T) wait to spend everyone else's money (everyone's money works much better here) on illegal aliens and minorities (so you're dumb as hell AND a racist. Good). What ever happened to the real America (I think you're living in the real America) I grew up in . (no space) Its (apostrophe S) like the hippies and bums have taken over, (period) its (apostrophe S) so sad. Free Health (lower case H) care , (no space here) its outrageous ! (no space here) If your (you'RE) sick and cant pay (comma) DIE (so long as this message doesn't apply to you?) ! (no space here) I want to keep my money and so does the majority (except the 70% in favor of reform). I dont (apostrophe T) think you or Bird brain are real Americans (coming from someone semi-retarded, that doesn't mean much), (period) oh (comma) I cant (apostrophe T) wait till (until) the next election, (period) President Palin will fix your little ass..s (I don't know what that is, but it sounds like fun) ! (no space) I just cant (apostrophe T) wait till (until) someone with a brain is in charge. (I see you prefer a communications degree from Idaho over a JD from Harvard. Keep working on that simple sentence structure! You're getting closer.)
CaptJack, you forgot one...
....sick and cant pay (comma)
sick and cant(apostrophe T) pay(comma)
Don't forget to share with us your experience with President Palin.
Thank you to President Obama for stating what needed to be said tonight, and for directly challenging those who stand in the way of healthcare reform, to move the country forward into the 21st Century.
Healthcare reform is important to our values and leadership abroad, to remain competitive in business.
As a rule, large companies do not benefit from getting involved with things outside their core business and expertise. Such is healthcare for many companies.
As for the Republicans in the Chamber gallery, watching their reactions and body language reminded me of the fraternity in the movie Animal House, without Dean Wormer on the podium. The shout out by Republican Joe Wilson, South Carolina, was very Neidermeyer.
The Republican Party is dead on the issue of healthcare reform. Good night. They should pick another issue now. Too bad Senator Blutarsky and the Deathmobile were not there to take them all away.
The only thing more fitting than listening to Obama would be to see him come out in a Joker outfit and tell some more lies.
robert_lv,
Why all the hate? What lies did he tell? Be specific. I would like to know why you think Pres. Obama is doing a bad job of president. (Please support your opinion with facts and not speculation or rumors.)
uofcgsb,
Rahm it.
robert_lv,
Nice response. Very republican of you.
It is saddening to see that the American political discourse has degenerated to extreme populism and right wing aggression. Honestly, healthcare doesn't turn America into a socialist country, au contraire, America is still far, far out on the blue/brown side of the political specter. It is entertaining to see republicans accusing Mr. Obama of being illiterate when you look back at Mr. incoherent sentence Bush. Mr. Obama is one of few politicians calling for rationality. At the beginning of the 21st Century, this sounds like a step forward.
Whoever said the "Repubs need to grow a pair," I would submit that Mr. Wilson from South Carolina showed tonight he has a pretty big pair. In front of the entire country, he called out Obama's lies.
The Dems are the ones who need to grow a pair. They've got the White House, a big House majority and a nearly fillibuster-proof Senate, but they're still afraid to put their government health-takeover scheme to a vote. Why? Because they know it will be a massive disaster that will cost them terribly at the polls in 2010, 2012 and beyond. They want the Repubs to jump in with some votes so they can share the misery.
No dice, Dems. You're on your own. Have at it.
As for those who claim health care is a right, you are correct. I've got mine. GET YOURS!
Incidentally, is this story a "commentary" or editorial? It is not labeled as such.
Therefore, the headline: "Senator's outburst marks NEW LOW in civility of political discourse" is the opinion of whom, exactly? Brian Greenspun? Lisa Mascaro?
Unless it's labeled an editorial, keep your BS spin to yourselves. At least feign having some journalistic ethics.
rightwing nuts, i call a spade a spade. larry, you'd be lucky to have canada's health care.
that outburst is no worse than obama's thugs intimidating voters outside voting places last election.
you liberals don't understand basic freshman college economics. you CAN NOT impose more taxes and costs on the companies that GIVE JOBS to people during a recession.
This is all I got to say...
http://www.typobounty.com/Funny/Health_C...
There was nothing that I saw or heard in the 45 minute talk by President Obama that gave me any hope of positive change on anything dealing with health insurance reform. The more we desire change, the more things will either remain the same or get even worse.
It is the same old, same old...backbiting, bickering, sniping, slandering, complaining, bitching, moaning, criticizing, blatant partisanship all over again. I did not hear anything from anyone that gave a glimmer of cooperation and interest in working for the real interests and benefits of the American people. Once again both sides were on their, "Me, Me...it's all about me.."
In the long run lawyers, insurance companies, the pharmaceutical lobby interests and other self-serving factions will have won and WE, THE PEOPLE, will have lost again... Our voice is being diluted to a whisper; it matters really very little what we want...the power factions in Washington are in control and damn what the people desire, need, like or want... How much do you think your vote or opinion or voice on this matter really counts?
I believe the only way to change anything is for us to vote out all of the bastards in the next two national elections. We need to clean house from top to bottom including all Democrats, Republicans, Independents or the WhoEvers in DC...It make no difference we need to eliminate the entire roster from left wing liberals to right wing fanatics... Term limits for Congress has never passed, but we can make it happen at the ballot box.
WE, THE PEOPLE own this country not the lawyers, corporations, special interests, lobbyists, unions, etc. We can run it again if we make it clear that nonsense of the past is over with...out with the current bums... Term limits: you run and win one term in office and that is it! No more 20-40 year political careers...
Politicians who have ignored the people of their country have eventually paid for that snobbery...Remember the French Revolution?
I have lived thru 13 presidents in my time on earth and this is the most arrogant along with talking down to the people president that I have ever seen. He is a master at playing with half truths and trys to eliminate all opposition to him by intimidation with his helper the news media. To date he has presented no plan but continues to talk about it then when questioned about specifics does the old soft shoe or attacks the individual asking the question. Ah yes!!!!! This must be the change he promised. As the story goes when a lawyers lips move he lies.
I agree with you on most things, vsetini, but term limits are not a solution. Did you ever get good at a difficult job in a year or two? With term limits, the unelected bureaucrats gain power because they are the only ones who know what to do and how to get it done.
The solution you are wanting can be accomplished by making it easier for challengers to win elections. Incumbents have a huge advantage, mostly a money advantage. The other way is if 90% of those eligible voted. If politicians knew people were paying attention and voting, regardless of which side they voted for, we would have a different politician. When everybody votes, votes are more powerful than bucks. When few vote, then money becomes more important to get the votes.
On one hand Obama and Democrats say they plans will give health insurance to some 30 million uninsured.
Everybody says that are a good chunk of the 30 milllion are illegals.
The lib koolaid drinkers claim that one bill that has not even pass one house of legislature will deny health insurance credits to illegals.
Perhaps either the Dems are liars or just dumb at math.
Are you guys dumb at math?
Also, I guess the doctors will refused to treat illegals since they will have no health insurance. I guess they will have to go home to get health treatment.
Has LVS been reduced to the "L-word" oooh. Obama has trouble with facts, so he in fact is a LIAR. Same with Reid, don't listen to their meaningless words, look at their actions. So are the words lies or are the actions lies?
I guess the lead story will be the outburst.
I guess that means that Obama really did not say anything that was "news" worthy.
Is the public option dead? Obama did nothing to fight for it. I guess they may try to disguse it and sneak it in.
I am getting use to Obama. At first, I was worry that a big socialism government was going to be steamrolled unto us.
Obama and the leadership in Congress (Pelosi and Reid) are proving to be a bunch of clowns that can't even screw a light bulb in.
Other than the raising taxes on the poor and passing that terrible "stimulus" bill and bailing out banks and corporations, the Democrats have not accomplished much of anything.
Repukes have been enemies of America for long enough. I just kicked one out of my rental unit.
vstseini,
Great comment. I am also sick and tired of the bickering among the electorate. D or R, get a clue this is an important issue that should pull us together, not push us apart.
If you don't like what they come up with, vote them out, that is your right and how democracy is supposed to work.
In the meantime, those we elected have a responsibility to work for the good of the citizenry whether they are a D or and R. Get over yourselves and serve the country, not your party.
You mean the Republicans have sunk lower then Democrats with this behavior? Now, that's saying something.
Maybe the GOP should examine why the illegals are here to begin with . . . when is the GOP going to turn their attention on greedy business owners hiring the illegals instead of hissing at Obama everytime he sneezes?
Several commentators here should be using the Canadian or the Mexican healthcare systems, instead of using ours. That'll lighten my tax burden.
call joe wilson @ (202) 225-2452...
tell him he is a child...
tell him he needs to resign...
tell him you will send a check for $100 to anyone who runs against him in the next election cycle...
we must put an end to this outrageous republican nonsense!!!
I was quite happy with the speech our president gave last night. He spelled out his plan and asked the republican side to help make it work instead of criticizing. He also asked them to help stop the spread false rumors that have been spread about his health care plan. These rumors slow down the process of getting the correct information out to the people and we all know what happens when you make decisions based on misinformation...you end up in a war in Iraq.
As for Joe Williams, this idiot must have thought he was at a "Town Hall Meeting". How dare he call the president a liar during the Presidents Address to Congress. Such a boorish attemt at grand standing was only to serve himself. It was out of line, poor judgement, and the hight of disrespect not only to Mr. Obama but the Office of the President. As I heard this morning Williams call the White House to apologize but President Obama did not take his call.
Big deal. As the old saying does, "If the shoe fits, wear it." This type of public censure is done in the English Parliament all the time. Obama says nothing because he has nothing to say.
Joe Wilson is a tool... a fundraising tool for the Democrats. He's already cut and run from his childish outburst and run back to Rahm Emanuel, crying and asking for forgiveness.
He's just like every Republican I've ever known.
Joe Wilson called it as it is, a pack of lies by a bunch of bureaucrats scheming for power.
what the hell has happened to the republican party???
nothing but little children throwing temper tantrums!!!
what a pathetic state south carolina must be...
sanford...
graham...
demint...
wilson...
all children...
what a complete and total disgrace!!!
I do acknowledge that he is a good reader with a professional delivery. Has Billy Mays been replaced yet?
Rare...it was once rare for the president to address Congress. Addressing the congress was once considered something for monarchs of Europe. Maybe its about time both parties started booing, heckling, and hissing the president. We need a president not a king.
Lets see, Sunset hospital just laid off 100 nurses and staff because it was spending $2mil a month on free care to illegals. Hey Prez, come to work at Sunset, you can make up the work that we lost, when we laid off AMERICANS in place of giving free care to Illegals!! How about rounding them up every day at the hospital and sending them home - no effort there - you could probably complete the job in 10 minutes..they are sitting in the waiting room - ready to go !!
Oh and lets not forget the bright idea from some democrat that wants to "fine" people if they don't have health care - thats a bright idea. And you all got elected? How about common sense in that if they don't have health care - they can't afford it and fining them would really be an insult - let alone another bill that US AMERICANS won't pay!!!
By the way, the speach was great (if you are trying to be on the campaign trail again) other than that, you should have stayed home and played with the new dog !
Where oh where is the President's Plan???
I have looked here and I have looked there, but I can not find it anywhere.
He did do a good job of preaching last evening. Promised us this, and promised us that. "My bill has this and my bill has that." "No my bill does not contain this and my bill does not contain that."
"You can take my word for it," because I came to town on the straight talk express or was it change that we can believe in. How about transparency in the White House? Maybe it was "I will sign no bill before it's time." Maybe not. How about, "There will be no lobbyists in my administration." Oops, that didn't work out either.
So how about one of you "enlightened" ones, please help me find the President's bill....
keep calling joe wilson @ (202) 225-2452...
let that little maggot know you are from nevada and you are going to support whomever his next opponent is...
the most fun you will have today...
the most fun you will have spending $100...
what scum bags the republicans are...
children!!!
Birdie! Thank you for saving me the google search by providing Wilson's number. I'll be calling him to thank him for his bravery in calling out that Emperor Hussein has no clothes, since we all know that illegals WILL be taking advantage of this "free" government health care.
I also plan on donating to his campaign. And, since I actually work for a living, instead of hanging out at Starbucks or mommy's basement while painting "Down with Capitalism and the Free Market!" signs, I expect my donation will dwarf those donating to Wilson's opponent.
I have a couple of solutions to fund a public option that Republicans should be able to support without hesitation or complaint.
Solution 1 (the Bush/Cheney method): Declare war on some country with a leader we don't like (Venezuela, for example) and use "shock and awe" tactics to blast the country into rubble. Then get a multinational conglomerate with close ties to a Republican politico that pays virtually no taxes in the US (because they cleverly relocated their corporate HQ to Dubai and operate shell firms all the way from Cayman Islands to the Middle East to evade taxes) to obtain no-bid contracts to rebuild the bombed-out infrastructure. They can also help support our troops there by providing them with tainted water and electrocuting them with defective showers. Pump billions and billions of taxpayer dollars into this fine example of American corporate governance, and siphon off a huge chunk of that money by having it simply "disappear". Use that money to fund a public option for healthcare in the US so that those individuals who are unable to obtain health insurance by any other method available can receive some benefits.
Solution 2 (the Reagan/Ollie North method): Sell weapons to Iran in direct violation of US law at a healthy markup, and instead of using the profits to finance guerilla warfare against a leader we don't like, use the money to help finance a public option for Americans without health insurance.
I have proposed not one, but two solutions using tried-and-true Republican methods. What do you say, my Republican friends? Can you get behind these proposals, so that someone like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT_2GjSkz...
and so many others like her can get the medical care they need?
Dagdayafternoon,
I know you have not been watching FOX NEWS, so you might not have known that we have a whole new administration in Washington D.C.
I forgot to ask Dogday.
Do you have a copy of the President's Health Reform Bill? No not Bush's, Obama's...
Joe Wilson = Typical GOP Big-Mouth Coward
No free health care for saggers, taggers and gang bangers, core constituencies of the democrat party.
Larry:
Here's the President's plan:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/health_...
Regarding your other post, since Republicans have suddenly embraced the notion of "fiscal conservatism" following years of a neocon "deficits don't matter" philosophy, I'm just helping you find the funding, Republican-style.
Obama's lies matter: http://reason.com/news/show/135976.html
mrtmtrvlr: Joe Wilson does not sound like a coward to me. He did what a lot of us would have like to have done...
God, it's unbelievable how many ignorant people there is in Las Vegas.
You should all move to a mobile home park in SC.
Concerning care for illegals, most Americans are not proposing they be left on the streets to die. But most recognize that taxpayer (or insuree) subsidized care for the millions that are here is out of control. We need to secure the borders, implement an aggressive verification system (Real ID, eVerify), and substantially penalize those who employ them -- then sort the chaff from the wheat, bringing those who choose not to go home or continue to engage in criminal activities out into the broader society. It won't eliminate the problem, but it will downsize it to a relatively more manageable level.
If Republicans would jump off a bridge, this world would be a much better place.
"And above all else, Obama chose to shadowbox against the more extreme claims of the Sarah Palins of the world, rather than engage the most serious of the skeptics' arguments. No, the administration doesn't "plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens," but what about the possibility of government cost-cutters frowning upon expensive hip replacement surgeries for the chronically old? http://www.reason.com/news/show/135549.h...
No, the proposal doesn't amount to a complete "government takeover" of health care, but it does continue to expand the government's role (and, promises aside, expenses) in ways that make a deficit-whiplashed nation nervous. No, "no one would be forced to choose" a public option, but what about the argument that incentives would eventually push Americans from private insurance to the public plan?"
http://reason.com/news/show/135976.html
Dogdayafternoon, Thanks, but that is not a bill or a piece of legislation. Those were his talking points.
President Obama said that he had a bill. I want to see an actual piece of proposed legislation in bill form ready for Congress to act on.
Does Obama actually have the support of the big corporate special interest groups his party ideologues blast as preventing reform? http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politi...
" Joe Wilson does not sound like a coward to me. He did what a lot of us would have like to have done..."
Larry: You mean you wanted to be a big mouth in front of your friends then cower and recant immediately afterward? Sounds about right.
mrtmtrvlr: Friends? Is that what they are? I thought they were sent to D.C. to do a job. Not be friends...
Maybe that's the problem. Too many are friends. And you know how friends like to help friends.
I am still look for the President's bill...
NLV-Indep13,
You're so right. For some reason, the simpletons like Larry latch on to illegals as the reason to be against health care reform, despite the fact that reform is happening on a federal level where illegals are banned from seeking care.
Let's get HC reform done and then start working on getting the illegal problem under control through immigration reform.
Obviously you're new to sarcasm.
Hey now I am a simpleton... According to CaptJack...
I didn't know I "...Larry latch on to illegals as the reason to be against health care reform..."
For the record, I did not latch on to any illegals.
By the way Captjack, do you know I can find the President's Health Reform Bill?
hey patrick r gibbons...
can a think tank lose it's tax status???
so what do all the commentors against healthcare reform propose as an alternative?
A mother whose infant has a pre-existing condition cannot get healthcare and has gone bankrupt and homeless because of the costs of her child's education should do what?
any real ideas or just name calling?
Yes, if it does things like create voter intitiatives to raise taxes on mining, for example.
Wakeup,
Yes,
1) Stop taxing health insurance policies for private individuals (do a dollar for dollar tax credit)
2) Eliminate mandates on health insurance policies
3) Eliminate restrictions on competition between health insurance companies (Nevada prohibits you from buying out of state policies)
4) Allow companies to give their health benefits to workers as an untaxable cash payment so they (the worker) can buy the policy they want.
hey patrick r gibbons...
hmmm...
Hey now, birdie, don't go turning the Progressive Leadership Alliance in for trying to create and promote voter initiatives, I sure haven't.
keep calling joe wilson @ (202) 225-2452...
hard to get thru i know...
the little maggot's web site has crashed...
give joey little maggot wilson a call and contribute to his next opponent!!!
Birdie, you aren't in his district, so why should he care if you try to intimidate him?
And why are people on the right and left so interested in harassing people until the opposition disappears?
because they're evil?
LarryVegas, try this:
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h32...
BTW: All you haters have every right to support Joe Wilson for being disrespectful to the President, but just remember that Pres. Obama was voted by the people and won the election. If you have so much disdain for our President, maybe you'll be happier living in Canada or Mexico.
hey patrick r gibbons...
you're a funny guy...
clever too...
or is it...
too clever...
hmmm...
Wilson just blurted out what most of us were thinking when Obama said"There will be no illegals on government run health care and will not cover tax payers funded abortions".( laughing out loud very hard) Tell that again to California,and just like he said there would be NO lobbyist on his administration ?Obama and his followers are dreaming or at the least 'wishful thinkers' to believe this huge entitlement program is going to be deficit neutral.By the way ,I have a slightly used bridge I'm selling, if any of you are interested,let me know, because I have a feeling it's going to go fast.
You can also help defeat Joe Wilson by contributing to his challenger in 2010.
In less than a day, Rob Miller has gotten $120,000 in contributions.
http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraiser...
The Republicans keep shooting themselves in the foot, or in the case the groin!
uofcgsb, sorry your link is to HR-3200.
I am looking for a copy of the President's bill that he mentioned in his speech yesterday. His talking points are posted on the White House's web site. But they are only talking points.
After a bit of research this morning, I am finding out that the President does not have a bill for health care reform, just talking points.
Obama says his plan will cost 900 billion dollars, on which he will get it from fraud and waist. BULL, since when has the government ever been good at cutting fraud & waist.NEVER,and now Obama is just going to wave his magical messiah wand and presto,the elimination of 800 billion dollars of abuse ?How much money is it going to cost just to find the fraud and waist ? The scary part is, he really believes the American public will just fall for any rhetoric that he spews.stick a fork in the him in 2012 and in the dem's in 2010,For all these trillion dollar programs and bailouts and complete wasteful spending and creating a diversion with health-care, while not dealing with the real crises at hand,which is this deep recession and that almost 10%( and rising fast) of Americans need a job,but these inept big spenders would rather focus on government run socialist health-care,and totally turn a def ear to the very real anger that was displayed at these town hall's!!Then to get the jobs he promised if the pork infested stimulus was passed. This man was a horrible mistake for this country, And has NO clue what he's doing.Obama is just one big speech after another.And it's the naive and misinformed that would rather fall for the cheesy smile & cool guy charm,then to study and do their homework on who Obama really is,and not the image he projects himself as being. God help us.
LARRYLASVEGAS:
Maybe you missed your Civics class in junior high on an important day. You keep asking for someone to "show you President Obama's bill". The Executive branch of government (i.e., the President) does not sponsor bills -- that is the role of Congress.
To enlighten you on that Civics class that you apparently missed:
"BILLS
A bill is the form used for most legislation, whether permanent or temporary, general or special, public or private. The form of a House bill is as follows:
A BILL
For the establishment, etc. [as the title may be].
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That, etc.
The enacting clause was prescribed by law in 1871 and is identical in all bills, whether they originate in the House of Representatives or in the Senate.
Bills may originate in either the House of Representatives or the Senate with one notable exception provided for in the Constitution. Article I, Section 7, of the Constitution provides that all bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives but that the Senate may propose or concur with amendments. By tradition, general appropriation bills also originate in the House of Representatives. . . .
A bill that has been agreed to in identical form by both bodies becomes the law of the land only after--
1. Presidential approval; or
2. failure by the President to return it with objections to the House in which it originated within 10 days (Sundays excepted) while Congress is in session; or
3. the overriding of a presidential veto by a two- thirds vote in each House.
It does not become law without the President's signature if Congress by their final adjournment prevent its return with objections."
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/lawsmade.byse...
As evidenced by the debate currently raging, a lot of discussion takes place, which results in amendments to a bill, until a version is drafted that is passed by both the House and Senate, and presented to the President, who signs it into law.
So, if you want to see "the bill" that is currently the subject of such heated debate, here it is:
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_11...
Have I answered your question??
Oh, by the way President Obama took an oath to represent all of the citizens of the United States not just those who voted for him.
I don't disdain President Obama, I feel that he has not lived up to his election promises that he made to get elected. One of which was governing the country from the middle. He has not, and many independent voters are voicing their discontent.
Dawg,
Hey thanks for the education...
But, you might have also been sleeping in class because:
A piece of proposed legislation can be written by anyone. It it first introduced Congress and first goes to the proper sub-committee. If it clears sub-committee, it is sent to full committee. If it make it out of committee (few do) then it is introduced by the Speaker of the House for vote by the full house.
HR-3200 was written by outside sources. Some say it was a product of SEIU.
If I recall correctly, President Clinton submitted a bill to Congress to reform health care that was written by/for White House staff.
All President Obama has are his talking points and that is all there is...
didn't Bill Clinton have a bill
i love it, you rightwing nuts a couple fries short of a happy meal, rob miller now over 300k. keep posting, keep posting. i love it
it's clear that joe wilson has no class.
the GOP faithful deserve a better representative, someone with true integrity, diplomacy and sticktoitiveness.
my friends, sarah palin is the obvious candidate. without question she is all of these things. And on top of that, she is knowledgeable at hunting and fishing.
To all:
My last post to Dawg about introducing a bill into Congress was from memory. Unlike Dawg, I did not take the time to copy some source word for word. Maybe I should have, but you all can do your own researching if you like. As a matter of fact, it is a quite interesting process.
I also left out several steps that I felt were not vital to this conversation.
The point I have been trying to make this morning is that the unlike the Clintons, the President has no bill or pending piece of legislation.
Overall, I think his talking points sound good, but that is all they are, talking points. If the President would put his talking points into bill form and have it submitted to either the House or the Senate, then we would have something to sink our teeth into.
jim-nevada: Sarah Palin has also governed a state. How about you???
Talk about no class...
Hey, Lar....
c'mon. ARE YOU SURE? I don't live in Alaska, but my sense is that it was something less than that.
This might help a few of you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJL2Uuv-...
Regarding Palin: Some of you truly believe that a former governor/fisherman/newscaster who attended 5 colleges in 6 years would make a better president than a former U.S. Senator with a JD from Harvard?
Really?
gmag39: In response to "ARE YOU SURE?" I copied the following from the Thomas Library of Congress web site:
Any Member, Delegate or the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico in the House of Representatives may introduce a bill at any time while the House is in session by simply placing it in the "hopper", a wooden box provided for that purpose located on the side of the rostrum in the House Chamber. Permission is not required to introduce the measure. The Member introducing the bill is known as the primary sponsor.
So, all President Obama needs to do is have one of his staff put his talking points into bill form, then give it to ANY member of the House who will introduce the bill.
uofcgsb: I guess time will tell, won't it? And it is not looking real good for the former U.S. Senator with a JD from Harvard.
keep calling that little maggot joe wilson @ (202) 225-2452...
phone still busy...
web site still down...
what a coward that little maggot is...
and most importantly...
make sure you send a little check to his next opponent!!!
uofcgsb: "Regarding Palin: Some of you truly believe that a former governor/fisherman/newscaster who attended 5 colleges in 6 years would make a better president than a former U.S. Senator with a JD from Harvard?"
I guess my memory is not as good as it once was, but I didn't realize that it was Palin who was running against Obama for President. I thought it was McCain. My mistake. Sorry...
The only way President Obama has any possibility of passing health care reform, is a commitment to remove illegal immigrants from gaining entrance to any public option? In the health care bill they must--PROVE--to the majority of the American People that--NO ILLEGAL FOREIGN NATIONAL--will be able to bleed the government extension in the package. An amendment to the 1000 page reform bill, must guarantee--IN THE WORDING-- that a very thorough background identity check is performed on any applicant who applies? E-Verify would be a progressive identifier, with an initial examination of Social Security number in conjunction with Homeland Security Databases.
To complete the operation of E-Verification this PC application, must branch out across the country as a permanent tool in business and industry for every worker newly hired or long time employee. Thousands or even millions of illegal workers could be hiding in plain site in the workplace, as they have never been checked as a citizen or legal residency compliance? It also seems that the auditing of 1-9 forms around the country, that the federal authorities forget to mention that irregularities by employers only allows them to dismiss the applicant? The fact is that ICE raids have trailed off, so that any illegal workers--ARE NOT DEPORTED--they can move onto yet another workplace. Anybody who is suspected of being in this sovereign nation illegally should be detained and held for ICE inspection, not released into the public mainstream?
We all know that Fraudulent ID is so prevalent, that all security systems have been compromised, with even al-Qaeda murderers who brought down three passenger jets. On 9/11 these terrorists had in their possession numerous authentic drivers' licenses and other picture ID. E-Verify is not perfect and can be cheated, but as it's modified, collecting more tools to compliment the enforcement program it success rate will become exemplary. Those hired workers who then find themselves under suspicion, can have errors resolved through any Social Security agency. That special interest groups have remained silent about this matter, doesn't need any explanation? most Americans want enforcement at our borders, the workplace, so contact your reluctant politician at 202-224-3121 MORE HONEST INFORMATION AT NUMBERSUSA & JUDICIAL WATCH. REMEMBER NO MORE BLANKET AMNESTIES!
"No American should have to choose between health insurance and getting drunk" (video from Reason.tv)
http://reason.tv/video/show/no-american-...
Those were some tough choices there Patrick...
Unfortunately, there is probably more of that mindset then what we know...
"it's clear that joe wilson has no class."
So all those years where the Democrats would boo Bush during the State of Union have no class, too.
After the presidential speech yesterday, some one in the Kenyan government called and said they wanted their Marxist back.
Hey Pat, that's a funny one.
But REAL PEOPLE are DYING.
Right now.
Because they have no health insurance.
I guess you are ok with that.
You know, Sargent Rock of Nance went to the hospital with no insurance. Got himself a private room, great health care. Nice.
Then he talked a charity into picking up most of the tab.
Is that how it should work, Pat?
Gmag, maybe you werent aware, but everyone with health insurance dies.
At anyrate, that video is very real. There are probably more people in America who have no health insurance even though they can afford it, than people with no health insurance because of a preexisting condition.
Essentially you want to help this small group of people, and that is great, but you want to help them with the most expensive and least effective plan. That isn't good.
Where in the U.S. Constitution does it say that everything has to make a profit, or benefit someones bottom line? When did it become the norm to strictly judge the merits of something by the way it affects you wallet?
People who talk about personal responsibility seem to forget that anything they have they have gotten as a benefit from living in this society and that everyone, from dishwashers to cops to farmers, has contributed to this society. Now you "have yours" and you have the nerve to say forget everyone else? Do you really believe that is in keeping with the spirit of this country?
Shameful, self centered, anti-social nonsense.
Never tuned into the sun "comment" section before and will never waste my time again. Never read more comments from mentally handicapped unemployed morons, with IQ capacities striving to attain 50, incapable of stating an argument, let alone a premise upon which to base one, a thought process as stimulating as dead space in a vacuum. Unemployed because the same individuals seem to deliver their ignorant diatribes 24 hours a day, evidently believing the more they see their name, the more literally famous they become. They remain the forgotten, the future passed by, with only their ignorance to console them.
One guy, do you think people wash dishes or farm out of the kindness of their heart?
Comment removed by moderator. It contained vulgar language and hate speech.
So larryluey, you don't have to hold back on this site. Go ahead and say what you feel and what feels good to you.
If you think it's bad now, just wait until the Angryreader finds this discussion.
Actually, larryluey, I kind of like your style. I particulary enjoyed your line; "...mentally handicapped unemployed morons..."
Anyway I hope you come back and visit us sometime. I think you will fit right in.
It's a regular "Who's Who" of right wing nutcases here today, all the
familiar names we've come to know and love.
Experts all, on politics, economics, health care, national defense, foreign policy, you name it, they've got the inside info, and are determined to enlighten the rest of us.
Tiresome.
Yep, Pat, you are right.
Who needs health care reform.
We that have it don't pay too much, and we get great bang for our health care bucks!
Yep, you are right. Those that do not have it be damned. They are mostly the slackers, am I right? Your video proves as much.
THERE IS NO CRISIS.
The health care industry is highly regulated, generally honest & fair, and they only take as profit a teeny little bit to pay the ceo's and make payroll.
Well, you are the one that works at a "think Tank". You must be right.
Were you invited up to Tahoe for the "Schmooze Cruise"? That would be some kind of fun!
I wonder if they'll let Cap'n Jim or Ensign Johnny steer?
Reform is just a ruse by "the Government" to take more control over my life, am I right?
Take a seat MJB, Angryreader will be here in a few minutes. Can't wait until he reads FastCamron's post. So prepare yourself.
Gmag, don't be so dramatic. I never said anything like that, in fact reform is needed, I've said it two dozen times. I just want people to be smart and rational about the issue and that isn't happening.
The video pointed out reality, one you, Obama, the Las Vegas Sun and many on the left ARE NOT addressing and with good reason. Reality doesn't sell.
In reality about half of the people without health insurance can afford to get health insurance. A large portion of the remaining people without health insurance are eligible for government programs. Only a very small amount of the American population has no health insurance because of a preexisting condition or because of a lost job (And even then its only temporarily.
As for your other statements, yes health insurance is highly regulated. Its too regulated and that is part of the problem.
Gmag, do you honestly believe that people who oppose Obama's health care plan are evil?
Patrick,
Of course they aren't all evil;
But there ARE a couple....
as for my last post to you, I was speaking generally about the tone of the right-sided argument.
Hate. Venom. Vitriol. The usual.
You, for example, (in my opinion)are greatly exagerating the number of uninsured that are your "slackers". Thus saying, "the REAL problem is lazy, irresponsible people."
I disagree.
keep calling that little maggot joe wilson @ (202) 225-2452...
phone still busy...
web site still down...
what a coward that little maggot is...
and most importantly...
make sure you send a little check to his next opponent...
here is the link to donate to the next representative from that pathetic state known as south carolina...
contribute now!!!
http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraiser...
Teabagger signs...
http://community.livejournal.com/ontd_po...
Notice any similarities to RJ and LVS commenters?
Hey MJB... Do you know what "Teabagger" means, and why do you use it???
Forget liberal or conservative -- let's go populist!
Medicare for all ("Real ID" required), with a $3600 individual annual deductible (waived for minors). Free annual exams & immunizations. Includes dental. Specifically prohibit abortion, "end of life counseling", and cosmetic surgery (unless it's restorative in nature, like repairing a cleft pallate or burn damage). Tort reform -- no punitive damage awards. Pay for it by getting rid of the Medicare payroll tax and instead implementing a flat 5% individual income tax surcharge, a 3% processed foods sales tax, and doubling the sin taxes (alcohol, tobacco, and marijuana if we're smart).
States, local govt, charities, or family members could help with the $3600 deductible if it's too much to handle for some. But the deductible, along with free exams and the fatty & sin taxes, are the prevention incentives.
Would need some sort of "audit trigger" to catch fraud, waste, and abuse. Would also need to restructure Medicare so that greater efforts were made towards preventive medicine over reactive medicine.
Doc Holiday-"If Republicans would jump off a bridge, this world would be a much better place."
Nice....Just one question for you. Would they need Death Panel approval prior to jumping?
Less Govt Less Taxes Less Spending
NLV-Indep13 has a lot of good points in his proposed plan. $3600 might be a bit high, but I do like the idea. I like the idea of co-payments for doctor visits.
The Obama Plan: United States Insurance Coverage USIC. U Sic U covered....
Gmag,
Slackers? Not at all, an estimated 20 million Americans don't have health insurance even though they can afford it. Most of those are young people who would rather spend the money on something else. Most of these people aren't slackers and are not buying booze. Still, the Reason video is a more accurate depiction of what is going on in America than what Obama says. He makes it sound like that everyone who doesn't have health insurance is making sacrifices between eating and insurance or house payments and insurance. The reality is closer to clothing, new cars, video games, tattoos, televisions, and booze than insurance. Even when you've got responsible married couples with kids, I've read that the average family of four without health insurance still has an income of $60,000 a year. That isn't rich, but that isn't destitute. Those families would rather have other things rather than spend their TAXABLE income on health insurance for unlikely risks.
This is why market oriented solutions are far more reasonable. They make health insurance more effective and less costly for 90% of Americans. The existing government programs should be retooled to be more effective at providing services for the people who REALLY need it.
you know, I'm pretty tired of the across the aisle fighting. I like Obama. I like what he's trying to do. I think what we should do, is start by working with the Republicans on Tort Reform. Maybe then we can reduce the costs of the already existing government-run medical programs and the private insurance. Then we should look at drafting a new bill with a public option that enforces identification of illegal immigrants attempting to use it. There are some things that the Republicans are concerned about that I definitely agree with, I just don't agree with the way they go about saying it.
NLV-Indep13's plan also sounds good, but I don't know if extreme right-wingers would support it. Cause ya know, it's the second coming of Hitler.
Jerry: If you would have left the last sentence off, your post would more credibility. But, I do agree with most of what you wrote.
I think the President should present his own health care bill for introduction into Congress.
I've listened to that speech twice and the only honest thing said during the whole speech is when Congressman Wilson said "you are a liar". I've called it already. Health care/insurance socialized medicine if you breathe you have to buy it even if you don't want it reform is D-E-A-D. Of course the libs will do the biggest p---y move and nuclear it through. However, if that were to occur it will guarantee one thing, the dems will not control any portion of government for at least 100 years. It will be so interesting to see if the libs will commit political suicide for a cause that will destroy this country financially.
Yes, I know what "teabagger" means and I use it intentionally as a term of derision,
although I must point out that the tea party folks began using it first to describe themselves, apparently not aware of the "street" meaning.
At a certain point, argument becomes impossible and mockery is the only
course of action.
I feel sorry for the well meaning souls (right or left) who come to these comment boards trying to make valid points based on facts, only to be insulted and
shouted down by the dittoheads. It's a losing game, because people who live in
the realms of fantasy can always produce more fantasy to support their
positions, which are grounded in fantasy, etc, etc.
They are good for a laugh however....
http://community.livejournal.com/ontd_po...
Shecky
Nice article, but I enjoyed the one about the HUGE find in the Gulf of Mexico by BP. Didn't BP just get a deal in North Africa in a gas for terrorist deal? The corrupt British govt sold the US out for money. There is no oil shortage.
Less Govt Less Taxes Less Spending Term Limits.
All politicians lie and hyperbolize, but the difference is that OBAMA is a COMMUNIST and America better wake up and nip this wannabe dicatator in the bud!
LarryVegas, it was a poor attempt to make light of some of the ridiculous things being said out there.
just like the comment previous to my last one.
"Still, the Reason Video is a more apt description of what is going on in America than what Obama says."
Patrick R. Gibbons
NPRI
Lies, Damn Lies, & Statistics.
Ok, I get it. It's OK to call President Bush a liar, but call Obama a liar and you crossed the line Mister.
Stupid Dems.
Jerry: I agree 100% with your idea:
"I think what we should do, is start by working with the Republicans on Tort Reform. Maybe then we can reduce the costs of the already existing government-run medical programs and the private insurance. Then we should look at drafting a new bill with a public option that enforces identification of illegal immigrants attempting to use it."
I don't know why both sides can't sit down, discuss and get something like this passed.
Maybe it makes too much sense. This is the kind of legislation that the President should sign on and get entered into Congress.
LarryVegas - Most rational people would acknowledge that there are common points worth discussing. But when people are blinded to the fact that we all have a vested interest in reforming health care and meeting in the middle, or dismiss all republicans as conservative crazies and democrats as liberal commies, it makes me wonder. Are people trying to foul up the efforts because they don't want Barrack to succeed? Why would anyone in America NOT want our president and congress to succeed in quality reform? Is it purely political? Is it racial? A combination of both?
Why Jerry Wayne, THOSE LAST 2 QUESTIONS:
Very, Very Good Questions!!! Most Excellent!
Jerry, It is a combo of MORE TAXES, MORE SPENDING, MORE GOVT. Why not reform for less of each of those? That would be even MORE Excellent!!!!!!
and the Republicans sink to another new low.
Keep it up guys and the only elected Republican will be a dogcatcher in Podunk.
tvegas, and the new low would be...... oh yeah, conforming to the dogmatic approach the Dumbocrats aspire to. TAX and spend.
Nice to see the Libs come out of the closet on this one.
Jerry, I don't want the President to fail, but I want these hairbrained scemes to fail. Just because he is the President doesn't mean he has a magic wand and a blank check. His power is determined by his usage of it.
His report card:
looking cool with a teleprompter A+
Delivering the Healthcare message D-
Writing checks he can't cash A+
Resolving Afghanistan D-
Cow-towing to Crazy Left A+
Alienating Middle Class A+
See Jerry he is succeeding. You should be happy.
It's because their bozo was transparently a bozo. President Obama has clearly raised the bar, and some losers whose radios feed them hate simply get stuck with limbaugh drool in their ears.
Yep. Those two questions seem to sum it all up.
They have absolutely zero respect for the president of our country and a strong willingness to waste the future of our little fledgling experiment in self-rule for petty, short-sighted satisfaction.
Jerry, I think both major political parties are at fault. The Democrats knew they had majority vote and theoretically could pass anything they wanted without Republican input. The Republicans got their noses out of joint and decided to push back when they were not invited in to play ball with the Democrats in producing a bill that both sides could agree with.
I would put the most blame on three politicians.
1. Polosi, for thinking she could exclude the Republicans and get the job done herself. She should have been more of a leader and included everyone. She still thinks she can do it by herself.
2. Reid, for not doing anything. He should have taken the lead and got the Senate to agree on a proposed bill and not wait for everything to fall apart. I don't know what he is waiting for.
3. Obama, for not realizing that Polosi and Reid were too polarizing to gain consensus on this important issue. But,he still has time to produce a bill himself and get it presented to Congress.
All present bills and proposed bills seem to be dead. The President needs to take the upper road and enter his own bill with advise from all parties. But I don't know if they can get it accomplished because all three allowed America to become too polarized.
And then there are us independents who lack faith in both parties and are upset because the politicians who received the independents vote are not performing as they said they would.
Of course, I could be all wrong...
I just read where he's going to address the nation again on Sunday evening. This is becoming like a pathetic Mexican novela. I'm starting to feel some empathy, sort of what captives feel toward thier captors.
rebelron,
I'm not sure you have experience with the Canadian health care system. I have experienced both and will tell you that Canada has much better care, less administrative waste and much less billing games. The waiting times compare to those in SoCal and Nevada. The US system is in no way superior.
Mike, nice! A little stockholm; that actually explains quite a lot.
Black guys can:
play basketball,
eat watermelon,
vote,
dance,
look at white girls,
French kiss white girls on the first date!,
run for office,
smoke pot and own up to it in writing,
address other poverty issues with love and concern,
do the best they can for others,
make mistakes,
be human,
do the best they know how.
1sp: I would agree that the Canadian health care system has "less billing games." But that would be expected in a single payer system.
I would disagree with you in that the Canadian health system is superior to the U.S.
I don't know of any sufficient waiting times for major operations in the U.S. But I do know of long waiting times for operations in Canada.
If you are talking about emergency room waiting times, then they may be similar for non emergency cases.
The Rush-puke-lickers are foaming at the mouth again.
air, 6161 is missing a patient. I think they just located you.
Hey saltydawg, is that the best you can do today?
It's another way of saying REPUKLITARDS larry.
Ah... Love is in the air...
Birdie,
Since your commenting all day and night it's obvious your too igorant to hold a job. Almost fifty years ago we had a good Democratic president. who once said "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country." He was the last good Democrat.
Everyone since has fallen into a liberal trap.
All Democrats are about is Gimme, Gimme.
Gimme welfare.
Gimme health care.
Gimme free food and shelter.
Gimme free education.
Gimme free school breakfast and lunch.
Gimme amnesty.
13.5 trillion in debt and rising. When the government finally goes bankrupt and you liberals are left to take care of yourselfs, you won't last a month.
... Thee REUPGNANTCAN Party has been LIKE this since 1870. They HAVEN'T gotten OVER losing the CIVIL WAR & NEVER WILL!!!
Let me think.... Lincoln was a Republican and was elected in 1860. Johnson took over in 1865 as a Democrat. The Civil War was over in 1865 and if I remember correctly, the North won, so how did they lose the Civil War?
Larry, please be careful with your history lessons. The facts might be too heavy for their small craniums to hold. Did you notice airhead's fascination with French-kissing white girls? Thank goodness he's already past the reparations hustle.
That's the second mistake I made today. The first one was when I looked at Obama's picture taken during his speech to Congress and thought that the "Bird" was sitting on the President's left shoulder. After a through review, it turned out to be Nancy Polosi sitting behind and to Obama's left.
I enjoyed reading everyone's comments on the speech and the Congressman who shouted "You lie".
As I said last night, the Congressman is correct. President Obama told a "lawyer's lie" through clever wording of his sentence structure concerning illegal alien medical care.
It's called making a materially misleading statement or a fraudulent non-disclosure.
It doesn't matter what the wording of "the bill" says. For those of you arm chair legal scholars, remember all that a "bill" does is AMEND the United States Code. It doesn't repeal the whole U.S. Code, which takes up about 10' X 10' in books.
I have a stack of emails from Senator Reid, which I receive every time I write to him complaining illegal aliens are receiving free medical care at taxpayers' expense. His letters are very blunt. He says the public hospitals are required by Federal law to give the free health care to illegal aliens and any other indigents, and that the private hospitals are required by Federal law to treat anyone, insured or not, who shows up at their emergency room with a true emergency medical condition.
There is not a single word in "the bill" to REPEAL those OTHER provisions of the U.S. law. Illegal aliens will continue to receive uninsured (aka free) medical care at public and private emergency rooms "regardless of the text of the bill", even though they are not "covered" under the Obama/Democrat health program established by the bill.
So, the arm chair lawyers like Capt. Jack are simply wrong. They are missing the key point on the language in "the bill" concerning free medical care for illegal aliens. The bill says absolutely nothing about REPEALING other pre-existing U.S. Code sections and Federal Regulations requiring hospitals to provide that free medical care.
So Obama did lie, by using a carefully crafted, materially misleading sentence in his speech, and by fraudulently failing to disclose that there are OTHER pre-existing federal laws requiring free medical care for everyone, including illegal aliens, at public hospitals, and in emergency circumstances even at private hospitals.
If Obama was President of a publicly traded NY Stock Exchange company, governed by the US securities laws, and he gave that speech to securities analysts, or put it in writing and sent it to his shareholders, he would be legitimately accused of committing securities fraud and breaching his fiduciary duty to shareholders. A materially misleading statement, or the failure to disclose a material fact, is a securities fraud. Obviously, the U.S. President is not held to the same standard of truthfulness as the President of a Securities and Exchange Commission regulated company.
I repeat. Obama lied.
He and the Democrats in Congress need the continued votes of Latino U.S. citizens who would be offended by a cut-off of free medical care to their relatives who are not here legally.
That is the truth. Obama is just too cowardly to say so.
Of course Pelosi was to the "left." She wouldn'd have it any other way. "Free" everything for people that produce and contribute nothing tangible. That's keeps her in office and satiated.
"So, the arm chair lawyers like Capt. Jack are simply wrong. They are missing the key point on the language in "the bill" concerning free medical care for illegal aliens. The bill says absolutely nothing about REPEALING other pre-existing U.S. Code sections and Federal Regulations requiring hospitals to provide that free medical care."
Federal hospitals don't give care to illegals. Again, this is a state/county issue, and again, I don't expect you to know the difference.
"Hey now I am a simpleton... According to CaptJack...
I didn't know I "...Larry latch on to illegals as the reason to be against health care reform..."
For the record, I did not latch on to any illegals.
By the way Captjack, do you know I can find the President's Health Reform Bill?"
Yes you are a simpleton and yes you, like the rest of your ilk, you a totally separate issue to attempt to kill HRC. You want to ban illegals from getting care? Start working on immigration reform.
And proof that you're a simpleton is your multiple attempts to bait people on showing you "Obama's" health care bill. I haven't said one word about "Obama's" health care bill and have consistently quoted HR 3200.
Mormonsuckdude, you are dreeeamin'!
It's a FUNNY dream though...enjoy!
Palin/Wilson. THAT is absolutely hilarious!
Who's on top?
How about a simple law to ensure no illegal aliens are receiving free medical care at taxpayers' expense? Make it a third degree felony for any doctor, nurse, or medical personnel to treat anyone without first being presented a United States passport to prove citizenship. Also eliminate any legal recourse for those that are rejected for treatment.
That will sure fix the problem and help the medical personnel shortage and funeral business all at one time.
rob miller at 700k and growing, keep posting glen lovers.
Poor thumper. No one to play with.
except himself, of course.
Thumper, I watched the Charlie Sheen video. I regret that I can never get that time back. I just wasted time watching drivel.
Answer just this one simple question and I will allow you "truthers" whatever leeway you need.
When they were running all the Det cord and splicing the miles of blasting cap runs, where were the people that worked in the buildings?
The only plausible explanation is that the building was pre-wired during it's construction phase, knowing that George Walker Bush would put down the bottle and become the President.
You guys make the "birthers" look sane. Crazy stuff.
Now stop, and let people remember 9-11 and not have to read nut-jobs like yourself destroy all credibility in themselves.
crackerjack: the left's perception of immigration "reform" is amnesty. No amnesty this trip.
Everyone should go back and read the recent post by CynicalObserver.
It is the most enlightening post I have read on this discussion.
I understand the idea of not denying any person medical care in an emergency situation, they should just follow up that emergency medical care with a expedited deportation to a hospital in their home country.
Thumper, you linked to a national joke of a "documentary" that was made by high school kids. It's been widely debunked.
http://www.america.gov/st/webchat-englis...
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/200...
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/200...
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/200...
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/200...
http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/Loo...
And finally:
http://xkcd.com/258/
Thumper's not just gone off the deep end, he's swimming in the Mariana Trench.
He is exactly the type of person who would believe that the government perpetrated 9/11 and who ALSO supports the republican party.
It's sad, because he doesn't realize just how gullible he's revealed himself to be.
CaptJack rants: "Yes you are a simpleton and yes you, like the rest of your ilk, you a totally separate issue to attempt to kill HRC. You want to ban illegals from getting care? Start working on immigration reform."
I think the good Captain is saying that me and my ilk are trying to kill health reform C___.
Just the opposite, Captain, we are in complete agreement that there needs to be reform in our health system, but not a complete takeover by the Government.
We don't need immigration reform, we just need the laws on the books ENFORCED.
I wonder how much radiation that telepromter emits?
Thumper,
I mean this in all honesty and sincerity;
Get some help.
Feliz fin de semana hombres y hombrecitos (lobo)!
It's too bad that more conservatives haven't called out this fraud! The problem is unless they find the cash in the freezer these people are set for life. So, Why rock the boat! I can only imagine what these rats are like when they get together behind closed doors.You know, The hand holding and back patting while making small talk on how the common man is lucky to have them.The most important asset that a politician needs is the ability to remember the lie and the spin when the answer needs to prolong one's carrier.I can't wait for the day when these self apprenticing vermin are removed. Let the lobbyists support them,Not the tax payer!
Let's see how you all feel when Obama takes over the media and the only thing on TV -- 24/7 -- is reruns of My Mother The Car and live performances by The Scintas's - Las Vegas's greatest entertainer's!
ssPPooRRtt''SS!!
The Scintas are the best!
So Thumper believes a landfill conspiracy theory, a 9/11 conspiracy theory, an Obama conspiracy theory.
So he's skeptical about the government but not skeptical about the loons feeding him these stories.
WATCH OUT THUMPER! THE BLACK HELICOPTERS ARE COMING FOR YOU!
"Just the opposite, Captain, we are in complete agreement that there needs to be reform in our health system, but not a complete takeover by the Government."
Since no one is offering a complete takeover by the government, what are you against? Single payer isn't being proposed. Making insurance companies non-profit isn't being proposed. Try not to be distracted.
"We don't need immigration reform, we just need the laws on the books ENFORCED."
That's another debate for a different day, but I disagree. The laws on the books are terrible and need to be revised. But we can debate that another time.
The Captain is on duty:
HR-3200 appears to be a government takeover of the Health Care System. That is why there is so much opposition it it.
The President should introduce a bill of his own based on his talking points.
Whenever you are ready to discuss immigration law, just let me know, I would be glad to help you.
Other then that, it's good to see you back on line, Captain...
CynicalObserver
I just want say I really enjoy reading your posts. The Sun would be wise to put you on staff. However I think you have a little barristeritus (rhymes with Titus by the way) on this one. Obama said illegals would not be covered under the health plan. Just because a illegal immigrant can get medical treatment in this country under certain circumstances, and will continue to do so despite this legislation, are in fact, two different things. I don't think that qualifies as a lie, even with the caveat lawyer lie.
Shecky,Stop before it's too late!
"HR-3200 appears to be a government takeover of the Health Care System. That is why there is so much opposition it it."
It may appear to be a takeover, but it's not. Nothing in the bill constitutes a takeover. Private insurance will remain after the bill (if) is passed...
"The President should introduce a bill of his own based on his talking points."
I totally agree. This was his biggest campaign issue and he should hang his presidency on it instead of letting Congress write his legacy.
"Whenever you are ready to discuss immigration law, just let me know, I would be glad to help you."
My head hurts just thinking about it... ;P
"Other then that, it's good to see you back on line, Captain..."
Likewise, sir. Can you tell I'm not a big morning person?
The legislation should have preceded the talking points. I'm starting to (almost) feel sorry for the bumblers temporarily holding the reins of government. Obama is as big of a fool, albeit in different ways, as his predecessor.
Thumper, probably not the appropriate forum but instead of becoming even more unhinged and spouting like a lunatic, why not answer my simple question about Det cord?
While I am at it, it truly shows how well researched you are when you think I am a Democrat.
Nice try.
You do know we landed on the moon, right?
This is probably the only time I'll ever agree with getalife, but then, today's been a pretty good day.
Let the Rep. and Dem. congressmen and senators settle things like in 1838 when William Graves killed Jonathan Cilley. It would also help with term limits.
I think the kool-aid libs are so funny.
In one breath, they say ObamaCare is not government takeover of healthcare.
On their talk-shows, they claim it is the first step in government takeover of healthcare.
It is like the recent appointment to the Supreme Court.
In one breath, they say she is a middle-of-road type.
On their talk shows, they say she is another Ginsburg.
Obviously, they are liars like their Messiah.
Thumper:
Assuming for a second that the government did orchestrate 9-11 what was their supposed goal, what were they after?
And
Assuming for a second that the President was really born in Kenya, what is the goal with that conspiracy?
What were "they" after?
"LIARS, MESSIAH, KOOL-AID, GOVERNMENT TAKEOVERS"
Blah, Blah, Blah.
Maybe one of you 9-11 doubters, non believers or whatever you call yourself could answer this question that has been bugging me for a long time: You say it was not a plane that hit the Pentagon on 9-11. If it was not that American Airline passenger plane, then what happened to the crew and passengers on the plane? And what did they do with that plane? Also, some of the passengers on that plane were on cellular phones to their loved ones telling what was happening to them.
Hey, birdie,who was that guy who threw the shoe at Bush and was given an award by the democrats? What is a disgrace is, how you think Democrats are above reproach, which will help them continue to think we can but you can't socialistic, communistic attitude. How are ya likin the change?
Hey Forextrading, what speech are you talking about? I do not like to open a website without knowing something about it. Thanks...
Thisoneguy, It was our governments role for our military to be able to get into Afghanistan to protect oil and gas pipelines to be built in the future through their country coming from the north around the Caspian Sea. Type "Afghanistan oil and gas pipelines" into your address bar. Read the websites.
My hat goes off to Joe Wilson for exposing the fact that there was no safeguards to keep Illegal immigrants from getting asisstance from our health bill. The bill did not include e-verify to make sure anyone getting health asisstance was an American citizen. As it turned out by Friday of last week Obama, the Senate and the House made sure that people seeking to get government health ins. must be American citizens in order to do so . Now, If Joe Wilson didn't stand up to the president this problem would have never been exposed to the public.This means all the other politicians, if they read the bill and knew about this potential problem, sat back and did nothing to expose this. If they didn't read the bill then what are they doing in office.
Joe Wilson apologized to Obama but I don't think he should apologize to the House. The House and our President should apologize to the citizens of our country for not reading the bill, or for reading the bill and not taking care in protecting our citizens.
Did you see Pelosi and Reid have additional punishment for Wilson? Reid also voted against e-verify. Question, Obama specifically said in his speech, every american needs ins, because those with ins end up paying for those without, when they go to the doctor or hospital, right? He can add all day long that "only american citizens will be covered". Are ALL doctors and hospitals going to be required to turn illegals away? No,No,No. They will still get care with no ins. and we will still pay for illegals health care. Then I can only imagine it will be the republicans fault. Same with abortion. It won't have its own section for coverage in the bill, but it will be covered in the packages you pay for. Its description will be something like "necessary medical procedure". He is so lying to us all, straight faced on National TV. GOOD JOB WISON for saying what I thought. Be careful though speaking against him because he threatened on National TV to " call you out on it" sounds kind of like a dictator doesn't it. And then added with Reid suing for campaigning against him. What other communist countries that have done this very thing? We are getting change alright, straight into communism, total government control.
The National Academy of Sciences says that an American dies every half hour because of a lack of health insurance, 18,000 deaths a year. This doesn't happen in other rich, modern countries because they have systems devoted to maintaining the health of their citizens instead of the wealth of their corporations.
First off, name me a country so I can research it that is devoted to maintaining the health of its citizens. I have not found any. second,Cap and trade would stop all that wealth to corporations. Calif. and Texas did it years ago and doctors flourished and care was cheaper. Obama, says it doesn't work, he won't approve it. He said he would listen to ideas from the AMA. They have screamed cap and trade. He lied to us. Medicare is a govt run program. Obama on national tv said medicare has 900 billion in waste and corruption that he plans to use to fund health care. Why is there so much waste and corruption in this great govt run program? Why would we the people just take his word without seeing the waste and corruption rectified prior to creating a 900 billion debt? When have you ever known govt to take back or reduce waste or rid govt of corruption to the tune of 900 billion or remotely close? Show me the money, THEN reform healthcare. I want to read this new bill. Repubs have never said do nothing, there has been numerous suggestions and bills proposed. He is lying to us again. He is working very hard to keep parties divided. He is lying to us again, by saying he is trying to work in a bi partisan manner. How, When and Where?
Private enterprise is what makes this country great and a world leader (prior to all our jobs being sent overseas) makes one think this socialist seed was planted years ago. When this bill passes it wont be much longer for Obama to run out of green paper that is backed by air and just start printing up Ameros backed by more lies and broken promises. Wise up America Vote Ron Paul 2012!