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twitterThe potential for prosperity in Las Vegas
Sure the city has its share of challenges, but two D.C. think tank guys see possibilities
Tiffany Brown
Director of the Brookings Mountain West Institute, William Antholis, opens the inaugural lectures at the Greenspun Hall on the UNLV campus in Las Vegas on Tuesday, Sept. 8, 2009.
Wednesday, Sept. 9, 2009 | 2 a.m.
Brookings Institution Annoucement
The Brookings Institution and UNLV announced its new Mountain West Initiative Tuesday morning at UNLV's Greenspun Hall.
Sun Archives
Things are bad in Las Vegas, but there’s hope if you look in the right places.
That’s the assessment of Brookings Institution urban policy scholars Mark Muro and Robert Lang, who delivered a state-of-the-city lecture Tuesday at UNLV.
Lang and Muro were here to mark the beginning of a partnership between UNLV and Brookings, which for the first time has established a significant U.S. presence outside Washington.
Some of the bad news is obvious, and Las Vegas residents confront it every day — record unemployment, sky-high foreclosure rates, massive state budget deficits.
Muro and Lang, co-directors of the Brookings Mountain West Initiative, said Southern Nevada must correct important deficiencies if we’re to achieve sustainable and widely shared prosperity after the recession.
We have a weak transportation system, with a maddeningly slow route between here and Phoenix, and just four lanes at points between here and Los Angeles. We have no rail, though a high-speed train to Victorville, Calif., is planned.
In the valley itself, we are almost entirely auto-dependent.
Too much of our private sector economic growth comes from food, drink, leisure, hospitality, real estate and construction — 53 percent — twice the national average. In other words, we’re hyper-reliant on consumption, and we don’t produce enough stuff or ideas to sell to people elsewhere.
Houston, by contrast, with its thriving energy sector, relies on consumption for 17 percent of its growth; San Jose, with its technology, 21 percent.
A related weakness: Very little of our population is employed in research and development or innovative growth industries, which are the mark of widely shared and sustainable prosperity in other cities such as San Jose, Seattle and Salt Lake City.
San Jose produces 475 patents and Salt Lake City 151 patents for every 100,000 residents; we produce about 30.
The reasons for this are known to Las Vegas residents: By most measures, we have, at best, mediocre schools, universities, health care and cultural facilities to draw those leaders and young entrepreneurs of knowledge industries.
If Muro played bad cop, challenging Las Vegans and their public officials to find ways to build a better future at this key inflection point, Lang focused on our strengths: He said the growth of the convention business in Las Vegas is a great, untold business story.
Although Las Vegas is viewed by the world as a debauchery capital, the massive convention industry has actually turned it into something else, Lang said.
For the business world, Las Vegas is a place to meet partners, customers, suppliers.
In fact, some businesses are almost entirely reliant on an annual trek to Las Vegas to win customers.
Lang noted that even as globalism and information and communication technology have expanded the reach of business, there’s no substitute for a face-to-face meeting.
“In the end, you have to look someone in the eye and trust them,” he noted, explaining the importance of trade shows.
Las Vegas, he said, “is a leading market exchange for establishing relationships.”
Moreover, he quipped, “They go out at night. And they do things that night, and maybe they need to trust each other.”
Lang said policymakers should focus on building an environment where those conventiongoers could create permanent homes for their businesses here, similar to the biotechnology industry’s move to the Bay Area in the wake of important conferences there in the 1970s.
He noted that this has happened with the furniture industry here, referring to the permanent trade show at World Market Center, which has drawn furniture design professionals.
Once an industry becomes dominant, it can leverage that dominance into other arenas, Lang noted. So for instance, Houston, which once relied on oil, has branched out into other lucrative areas, including technology for energy exploration and specialty energy finance.
Lang said Vegas should consider renewable energy development an area of such promise, so that they come for the sun and wind, but stay for the research and development.
Lang and Muro both said policymakers would need to address Southern Nevada’s infrastructure weaknesses, including transportation, schools and health care.
Developing a light rail system, they said, would send a signal, as it has in Portland, Ore., and Phoenix, that Vegas is a cool place for young, educated professionals.
The city’s auto-centric development has limited living options and should be retrofitted to create walkable neighborhoods, Lang said.
This could be done, he said in an interview after the lecture, by offering incentives to developers to convert some of our ample, fallow parking lots into new dense, multiuse developments.
Lang apparently believes in a thriving future for Las Vegas. He is moving here, he said to applause.
What was missing from the lecture was any discussion of the state’s political dynamics.
Their proposals will cost money, and the state’s taxpayers have a long history of refusing to provide it.
Discussion: 70 comments so far…
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great outside the box thinking!
two out of towners with a program to sell.
So who wants to pay for the worthless junk these fools think would be so neat. I moved here for low taxes and low cost of living. We don't need "cool" educated professionals, they are so full of themselves. Portland sucks, let Mr. Cool stay there
To survive and thrive well into the future, you need vision, a sound strategy, a road map of how to get there, good management, accountability, and the resources to get it done. How do we measure up on those things?
If you're not doing the above, you can take your place with General Motors, the failing newspaper industry, the long-gone American steel industry, and so many others.
As Winston Churchill said, "He who rests, rots."
Build more public housing. Add transit routes that take more public money to subsidize every rider. Maybe we can open some outreach centers to better add people to the welfare roles. There is much an organization like this can do to help Nevada spend money they don't have.
We've heard all this before: Diversification of the economic base, more mass transit, less suburban sprawl, and so on. The bitter truth is that Las Vegas will never be, substantially, anything else than what it has always been, a playground. Honestly, does anyone think renewable energy is going to produce the tens of thousands of jobs that the hotel/casino industry currently does?
Yes, Vegas is hurting and will continue to hurt. By 2006 construction workers were building overpriced housing for other construction workers! The hangover from this excess will last for years.
As a practical matter, the overleveraged hotel/casinos need as much cash flow as possible and the only way to increase it is to give more tourists and conventioneers reason to come to Las Vegas and spend their now scarcer dollars.
If we're truly serious about reviving this town we must "bite the morality bullet" and make ourselves the Amsterdam of the western hemisphere. Don't bust working girls and petty drug pushers at casino pools, but actually legitimize and supervise (and tax!) such activities. Any other course of action (or inaction) will condemn this overbuilt town to years of stagnation.
A wake up call articulated quite well. But so much of this we already know and do nothing about our future. Conventions and trade shows: other than Bally's (the prior MGM), the Hilton, and the Riviera, no one wanted conventioneers less than 20 years ago...MGM opened without convention space and said they did not need conventions to fill 5000 rooms; Circus Circus built Mandalay Bay with a major Convention Center...this from the people that previously did not want guests with shirts and ties...and at one time Steve Wynn did not want guests wearing name badges announcing they were attending a meeting or convention. And, now, today, conventions will be one of our lifelines. It is a 'smokeless, non polluting' industry. It does not burden our community but demands a better quality of life. The LVCVA should redirect some of its advertising dollars. Transportation is definitely a major concern, but people have been discussed high speed rail service to California for 30 years...but now there is government money to be had. Our main problem is we are a one industry state...with all due respect to mining. We are solely dependent on others' consumption, and nothing will change until we take the Gaming operators out of deciding our State's future! Let's make something out of the State of Nevada.
With commercial property struggling it would be a good opportunity for local and state government to work with commercial property owners to draw out-of-state businesses that will diversify the LV economic base. There are many well-paid workers that would not mind relocating to LV if there is work and where they can easily afford a home.
We've heard it all before. but when will they start really doingi something about it? for now, it's all still "talk".
But "The state on Friday will host an "industry day" at a Lake Tahoe casino, granting insurance companies an "all access pass" to the state employees who regulate them".
I agree with jlb101, Portland is a miserable place to live. There is only one thought that is accepted, Fascist liberalism. Mass transit is a expensive fairy tale in western cities. Some strong points on the convention industry should be explored.
Urban and regional planning is where Brookings needs to walk away from. Their reports on this subject are maddeningly horrific. You CANNOT subsidize your way to sustainable growth. You CANNOT tax your way to a diverse economy. And light rail has been one of the biggest boondoggles in the nation.
Phoenix, for example, just finished its light rail for $1.4 billion or $70 million a mile. You could complete 50 to 100 miles of 4 lane highway (carrying far more traffic, reducing congestion and far more pollution) for the same price. Worse still, Phoenix stands to lose $28 million a year just operating the rail -- that does NOT include paying back the bonds, and this is with the Phoenix Metro's very optimistic estimations.
The last thing you want to do is emulate Phoenix or Portland for urban planning -- those cities could NOT have done a worse job. Portland is an expensive and congested disaster read more about it here: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_...
As for rail, read more about the boondoggles here:
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2007/10/1...
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_...
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_...
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/06/0...
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_...
Wait a minute. Something good happened at UNLV? How could that be? Oh, that's right, Rogers isn't around to scream at anyone anymore. Good for UNLV!
This is what I fear for Las Vegas, but this is what happened in Portland:
"Opposition turned to anger when a 2004 scandal revealed that an insider network known as the "light--rail mafia" had manipulated the planning process to direct rail construction contracts and urban--renewal subsidies to themselves."
Wealthy educated people, not unlike Mr. Greenspun, have these big ideas that are well intentioned but the end result seems to be rich people, not unlike Mr. Greenspun, gaining even more wealth at the expense of the taxpayer. That is, light rail and other urban planning policies are simply fads to help these elite and well connected individuals, not unlike Mr. Greenspun, to get rich while accomplishing none of the intended goals.
I was going to add a few thoughts, but after reading what Patrick and a few others had to say, it seems their comments are adequate as I see it.
When early Las Vegas popped up like an entertainment oasis in the desert, it certainly was magnetic and new to the rest of the country; it could draw in people from all of the 48/50 states. Somehow, it appears the 'founding fathers', thought that 'what happens in Las Vegas, stays in Las Vegas' (ultimately, a common motto that we'd hear repeated over and over).
Unfortunately, what happened in Las Vegas was seen as a viable ADDITION to other states; an ADDITION to their ALREADY DEVELOPED AND DIVERSE BASE OF REVENUE, and that chipped into the revenue Las Vegas enjoyed; people didn't have to travel hundreds or thousands of miles, to relax - gamble, and find outstanding entertainment.
When you build a city on discretionary income that your VISITORS and TOURISTS have, you're building it on very unstable ground and economics.
You have to build the city from WITHIN AND BASED ON THE RESIDENT'S RESOURCES AND CONTRIBUTION in the form of service and employment to multiple industries and businesses.
The desert offers a place for exceptional solar power and wind power industry; it's something that is viable and needed in the coming years - maybe Las Vegas can build their city up again; doing it 'backwards' from what 99.9% of all other cities and communites have done in the USA.
Frankly, I don't think they needed to spend money on having any consulting firm or a bunch of 'professionals' be paid money to tell them that - obviously, these readers who've already commented, can see that and haven't been paid one dime to offer their insights.
I love Portland. It's clean and wet. The people are way smarter there than here. They have excellent jobs there that pay quite well. The public libraries actually get used about twice as much as Nevada's. Most people there are college grads, as opposed to the one in six in Nevada. It's easy to understand why this rag is filled with such a steady stream of half-baked, misspelled, poorly expressed drivel. Look at the fools belching it out!
Nothing else to do here. Gamble. Whore. Drink booze. Overpriced buffets. No educational stimulation. No patents. No new business; that would require an educated workforce. LOL
Actually airweare, as far as state data goes, Nevada and Oregon are not that different in terms of education results according the NAEP.
This is particularly embarrassing for Oregon considering they are 80% white and Nevada is a majority minority state.
White student population in Oregon is 72% (overall is 80%). White student population in Nevada is 47%. White student population in Florida is 50%.
Florida's Hispanic student population out performs Oregons's statewide average on ENGLISH READING.
How about them apples?
College/ Student related expenditure / 6 year grad rate
Portland - $10,996 - 70.2%
Portland State - $8,351 -- 35%
Oregon - $10,070 - 65.3%
Oregon State - $9,960 - 60.8%
UNR - $14,913 - 46.3%
UNLV - 9,653 - 40.6%
Note: we are already heavily invested in higher ed. But don't think Oregon is really doing that much better. They're mostly white, the graduation rate of their minority students is mixed.
College / Hispanic 6 year grad rate / African American 6 year grad rate
Portland -- 57.1% - N/A
Portland State -- 24.5% - 20%
Oregon -- 65.5% - 70.6%
Oregon State -- 53.7% - 34.7%
UNR - 41.1% - 33.3%
UNLV -- 36.4% - 40.6%
Patrick Gibbons and others with similar naive and antiquated positions on city and regional planning are the issue and, as a native of Las Vegas and a planner by profession, I have to admit that they are unbeatable. Auto dependency, suburban sprawl, a general lack of anything resembling culture (however defined) combined with an economy based purely upon consumption and governed by perhaps the least intellectually curious group of people ever assembled led us to where we are today.
Portland is a great city. Seattle is a great city. Austin is a great city. Las Vegas is Rancho Cucamonga with better strip clubs.
Great cities all? Liberal as hell, high taxes, and agendas that create government bureaucracies. No thank you.
Exit12drummer!
You're a poet.
Auto dependency, suburban sprawl, a general lack of anything resembling culture (however defined) combined with an economy based purely upon consumption and governed by perhaps the least intellectually curious group of people ever assembled led us to where we are today.
That's a piece of work.
Thanks for your view.
Smart people. You get what you pay for. They all have stronger, more vibrant and diversified economies than Las Vegas. And if you think for a minute that our pea-brained politicians in this valley don't have agendas you are sorely mistaken.
@ Patrick:
So can you just answer this question for me and then I'll never darken your door again:
Are you a minarchist or a market anarchist?
Funny you would bring up Cucamunga. One of my lifes strategies was to avoid that like the plague. That's where my olds is from. And my ex-wife, I am sure. Gamble, drink,sounds good on paper. Whore? My wife could probably address that comment better.I will ask her, if she ever comes home. The lift I get is seeing all the wonderbras everywhere, the land of higher vistas, I say. I do take umbrage from the comment on over priced buffets. Let's show a little compassion for this sinking ship. The rats are scurrying, what's left is the core folk who like it for what it is, not for what it was, I need a greyhound ticket to cucamonga, going to check out the strip clubs, find a new life.
Air and Exit,
Consumption is what the economy is all about. Nothing more. Its about individuals acquiring the things that make life better for themselves and their families. The purpose of the economy is not to cram people into 19th century row houses riding on early 20th century trains and the purpose of the economy is not to create jobs for people to make widgets no one wants.
To you, culture is something for elitists, you yourself might be one. You're nose might be sticking up too high to notice that the culture here is freedom - that is you're free to enjoy life peacefully as you see fit and that may be reading at the local library or playing poker at the Casino. Just because we don't have massive amounts of subsidies for artsy-fartsy stuff does not mean we don't have culture.
The economy will bounce back. Government spending created many jobs in the Great Depression, Hoover Dam for example. Some paint that as socialism, others as a wise public investment -- found a cool site; Balkingpoints ; incredible satellite view of earth
High speed rail is not interstate 2.0 http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_...
"The administration has likened President Obama's high-speed rail plan to President Eisenhower's Interstate Highway System. Yet there are crucial differences between interstate highways and high-speed rail.
First, before Congress approved the Interstate Highway System, it had a good idea how much it would cost. In contrast, Congress approved $8 billion for high-speed rail without knowing the total cost, which is likely to be at least $90 billion.
Second, highway users paid for interstate highways, whereas high-speed rail will be almost entirely subsidized by general taxpayers who will rarely use it.
Third, interstate highways connect all 48 contiguous states and major metropolitan areas. The FRA's high-speed rail plan consists of six unconnected networks that reach only 33 states and less than two-thirds of the nation's 100 largest urban areas.
Fourth, the average American traveled 4,000 miles on interstates in 2007. High-speed rail proponents optimistically estimate that the average American would ride the FRA's high-speed rail system less than 60 miles per year.
Finally, interstate highways improved social welfare by increasing highway safety. In contrast, far from saving energy and reducing pollution, high-speed rail would actually increase energy consumption and greenhouse gas emissions.
For all these reasons, the United States government should not fund high-speed rail. The $8 billion in high-speed rail stimulus funds should be invested in safety improvements, not in new trains and new routes that will add to future taxpayer obligations."
Mr Gibbons,
Widgets that no one wants..you mean microsoft and all the supporting industries?
What did I do to so offend you that you would attack me for liking a town? If you lived there awhile, you might come to learn what they mean by culture too.
Its ok to like a town like that, I'm just pointing out the flaws....
Btw, you said, " It's easy to understand why this rag is filled with such a steady stream of half-baked, misspelled, poorly expressed drivel. Look at the fools belching it out!
Nothing else to do here. Gamble. Whore. Drink booze. Overpriced buffets. No educational stimulation. No patents. No new business; that would require an educated workforce. LOL"
Just saying...Portland is NOT impressive, but maybe you're easy to please.
Patrick,
If culture is just artsy-fartsy stuff to you, then do not go to Portland, Seattle, Austin or any other thriving metropolis here. Just gamble, whore and buffet like all the other happy Las Vegans.
You wouldn't like those other places anyway.
Economy and culture have no appeal to you. Stay in Vegas. Watch as everyone comes and goes, whores, boozes and loses. Don't ever try anything new. Languish in the capital of greed and call it culture. Have a drink.
Air,
I'm afraid your idea of culture is to force people of lower means to subsidize your enjoyment of fine art (or perhaps dead sharks in a tank) classical music, opera's ballets, and bad poetry.
While I actually enjoy visiting museums, examining art (though I dislike modern and postmodern art), listening to classical music, watching theatre, I don't believe that this is the ONLY thing that describes culture. I'm also against forcing other people to pay for my enjoyment of these things.
If you don't have the willingness to pay for these things don't complain... or move to the cities which have no problem forcing low income people to subsidize the rich. Otherwise grow up, culture is not as limited as you have defined it.
PG
Don't go to Seattle, Portland or Austin. Stay away from Boston, DC and NY. Shun Philly. Stick around Vegas, maybe go home to Oklahoma and call it rich.
Enjoy your blessed existence.
Patrick,
I was born in Las Vegas. My wife is from Boston. I know what elitism is as defined by neo-conservatives. Make no mistake, I am not a "liberal" across the board. But this discussion is about why Las Vegas has fallen as fast and hard as it has. I've done well here due to the fact that I was heavily involved in real estate. Subsequently, I've also done poorly. My decision and my cross to bear. But as a native, I do have a very clear perspective of what has made this a cesspool.
Why is it that the places we all love to visit (Vegas notwithstanding) are always the places that people are the first to criticize as elitist? Why?: Because they are superior. Not because they have opera or art or a vanguard identity. No, it is because they have the wherewithal to actually want those things. Culture is subjective and I readily accept that. Me personally, I like rock music, mountain biking, my Chocolate Lab, and good beer. But I also appreciate the fact that cities like Austin, Seattle, and Portland cared enough about the quality of life of their respective citizens to provide ample open space opportunities for recreation. They have made available the arts; they have made available fitness; they have made available intellectual curiosity. If that is elitist then so be it. I'm not into definitions.
Las Vegas is about consumption, you are correct. However, the world is changing and the outdated "all for my pleasure" consumptive culture is a dinosaur.
By the way, the single greatest catastrophe of the 20th century (excluding the Holocaust) was the day Eisenhower signed the Interstate Highway Act.
Good reading, airware and Drummer...
your last comment, drummer, got me hummin' "Little Pink Houses."
Exit,
We have more open space than all those cities combined. They have made arts and music available by taking from the poor and giving to those who like that stuff. That isn't very fair.
I'm sorry but I find it funny that all these cities look to one another and try to copy each other. This is all about big egos and big profits for corporatists. Phoenix is trying to be Vegas, Vegas is trying to be Portland and Portland is trying to apologize for running up the bill and chasing everyone out to the suburbs.
The worst part of the 20th century was the New Deal. And we would have had private highways instead of public ones. Frieght would likely be moved along rail but we'd still be driving cars and moving to the suburbs.
Air,
Oklahoma was actually a nice place to live, even though they did spend way to much money trying to make Oklahoma City into Austin Texas so artsy fartsy yuppies could feel better about themselves without breaking their wallets (by making other people pay for their entertainment). Still, if you weren't such an elitist you might enjoy it.
Love the song. It's all in good fun I suppose. My band covers the song incidentally though I'm not sure any of us has ever been to Indiana.
PS, elitism was thinking that ONLY art, poetry, symphony and theatre made up culture. That of course is nonsense. Las Vegas has a culture, but its not single-minded or easily defined like the yuppies want.
Nevertheless, you have not negated my point that you are willing to take from the poor (who are far less likely to care for these things) in order to subsidize the entertainment of people who do.
The greatest accomplishment of Americans during the last half of the 20th century was the invention of the windsurfer. Not computers, not the internet, not SGT Rock.
Flying across Lake Mead at thirty miles an hour on a broad reach, the spray in my face, oblivious to tax problems and economic downturns, is my idea of cultural advancement. It invigorates the body, calms the brain and feeds the soul. Culture.
Patrick,
You seem to be a guy who is into statistics. Research open space at the Urban Land Institute (uli.org). You will see that open space in Las Vegas, as defined by the amount of useable, non-programmed land in an urban area, ranks last or almost last among metropolitan areas of more than a million people. Vacant desert, while I do enjoy it, is not what I am referring to. This article was about urban planning to an extent and, while I even tend to agree with you regarding personal choices, even you would have to admit that Las Vegas is sorely lacking in amenities. Human beings need to be outside and they need to be able to move around and socialize with others. I suppose you could argue that one could do that in an air-conditioned casino but really?
You likely live in a suburban house somewhere in the valley. We all do. Unless you are extremely outgoing, it is doubtful that you really know any of your neighbors. Not saying that you have to as it is anyone's right to live anyway they so choose. Gated subdivisions within gated subdivisions. Air conditioned office to air conditioned car to air conditioned house, then repeat. But if you think back to that old Christmas special, Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, and recall the Land of Misfit Toys (you remember the place with the train with square wheels and the squirt gun that shoots jelly?) - that is the perfect analogy for Las Vegas. Corny? Yes. But the point is valid.
I'm not condemning Vegas. It is my home. But it needs a defribullator. It needs to lead the way rather than settle for what it has become. And bad planning is exactly the reason why we are where we are.
Patrick,
If you do get to Portland, check out Forest Park. Over five thousand acres of green!
If you get to Seattle, try Beeliner Diner. Go to the Honeybear Bakery on an evening and enjoy the live music. Classically trained musicians, playing for tips. Good tips!
If you get to Austin, wear something cowboy and do the Willy nelson thing.
Don't waste your life in Nevada! It's doomed amigo.
Exit,
So basically, people have decided what was best for themselves, moved to the suburbs, but you don't like it so you want to use government power to change people's behavior, cram them into smaller living spaces so they drive less and walk in your parks more? We don't have the "amenities" because people aren't actually willing to pay for them and they aren't willing to pay for them because there are other things they want MORE.
How many major parks do those big cities have surrounding them again? As I recall, Lake Meade, Mt. Charleston, Red Rock, and the Valley of Fire are pretty big.
Air,
Nevada isn't doomed. Even with the really boneheaded 20% tax increase, things will be ok here. We do need serious reform in education, and we really need to slash some of the taxes and get government to spend money efficiently but we certainly aren't doomed.
Gibbons is right - no more taxes. Jim, that is. Not the lame commentator on the website.
Patrick,
I'm an elitist who eats less than a dollar a day, lives on public land in a tiny trailer, drives once a month or two for water and groceries, believes in opportunity for growth via investment of energy in valuable commodities like education so you probably are not going to be able to listen to my words or allow them to break through your crust.
With no water, sir, more than a million people in a corrupt environment with nothing to offer the world but salty sand, scattered sagebrush and solar energy that nobody wants, is doomed.
In your youthful and imaginative mind, well-acculturated and broad-minded approach to life her own self, justify your optimism.
State govt? 1 out of ten.
Local govt? 1
Citizenry? 1 to 2
Resources? gold, Canada; Silver, history
Gambling? No dough and Natives
Hookers? 7
Dope? 8
Tattoo parlors? 7
Booze? 9
Tobacco? 8
Remember'Live by the Sword...'
People ARE doomed.
I said IS.
Sorry. Ah fuqt up.
Patrick,
"This is particularly embarrassing for Oregon considering they are 80% white and Nevada is a majority minority state."
Please explain why would it be embarrassing for Oregon to score lower than Nevada because Oregon is less minority (or in otherwords 'more white')?
Let me guess, you're not racist? Riiiiiiiiiiiight, Patrick.
You post partisan hack links to the neocon website Cato institute like you are being paid per click. And you back it all up with racially motivated, nonsensenical garbage...decrying all taxes and publicly funded social programs as nothing more than vehicles for lazy poor minorities to steal from the rich. Nothing has a purpose in your hateful, spiteful, deluded little world. Except your own self interests, that is.
You hate America and it comes through loud and clear. This country has been 'socialist' in your definition for the last half-century and more. Pretty much every American is a socialist in your definition. After all, anyone who roots for UNLV basketball (state funded institution) or enjoys a little wakeboarding on Lake Mead (state funded park), or enjoys a nice hike up in Red Rock on a beautiful fall day - is nothing more than a freeloading socialist taking advantage of rich people's money.
Cognitive dissonance 101.
Yes, I'm posting comments about something OTHER than smoking. While the barbs fly at various posters, keep in mind that not everyone who posts here has English as a first language, so not all misspellings or grammatical errors are tied to a person's education.
"Can't we all just get along?"
That being said, I'd like to make a few constructive comments. First, burnemandturnem accurately points out the renewable energy will not create the 10,000's of jobs the casino industry does. It does not HAVE to. Even if it creates 1000 jobs, those jobs are going to be higher paid, skilled jobs. Those people are going to live here and spend here, generating more jobs in the service industry. Having larger renewable energy farms are more likely to draw the research and development jobs that go with advancing the technology needed by these industries, creating MORE skilled positions. The NEED for these skilled jobs will spur the local educational facilities to create/expand the training and teaching/research courses needed to SUPPLY the skilled labor, thereby improving the intellectual investment in Las Vegas. Employment and education expands because of a thousand jobs.
Fogcity has the right idea...the various redevelopment authorities/chambers of commerce/local governments should work together to market available commercial real estate to help expand the commercial/light industrial base. Again, you are not talking 10,000s of jobs, but every little bit helps. The more diversity in business you introduce, the easier it will be to diversify the entire economic base.
As for Mr. Gibbons, I agree that light rail systems are not the way to go when you can expand public transportation and get more bang for your buck. What should be expanded is a nationwide passenger rail system that serves all major cities, not just a select few (just my opinion).
Having said that, there are a number of things in his posts that bother me.
A) Why should race even be introduced here? The question is the graduation rate/educational level of the people, not how many white/hispanic/african american/asian/name your ethnicity students graduate. (more comments on second post)
(continued from previous post)
B) Using terms like "artsy fartsy" does nothing more than display a different form of elitism...indicating that those who happen to like things like modern art, neo-expressionism or cubism are to be ridiculed for their preferences. I do not live in the Las Vegas Valley (yet), but for those questioning the availability of culture need look no farther than downtown Las Vegas and the Old Mormon Fort. I have visited some of the art museums offered in the casinos, and I have also been to the Boneyard and the Pinball Museum. I have seen broadway shows offered in the city as well. And before you talk about them all closing, take a look at Broadway in NYC...shows come and go there as well. Las Vegas has a lot of culture to offer for those of ALL appetites. In fact, I lament the fact that I missed the Helldorado Days(spelling?). That is classic Las Vegas.
C) Using Corporatists to refer to how other cities try to match some other city? Try looking on the Las Vegas Strip...where the majority of the properties are in the hands of 2 (yes, TWO) corporations. The biggest mistake the state made was allowing so much to be gobbled up by so few.
D) The New Deal was the WORST of the 20th century? Maybe you might want to review your history. Raging unemployment at a time where unemployment compensation did not exist...you lost you job, you starved. The New Deal created things like the Tennessee Valley Authority, bringing electricity to much of the rural south. It created many of the government buildings you see standing today...buildings with character, not concrete blockhouses. It put good people back to work who, through no fault of their own were unemployed. Play whatever political cards you want, but The New Deal was a good thing, and a necessary thing.
E) You talk about the surrounding area...Red Rock Canyon, Valley of Fire State Park, Lake Mead Recreational Area, Mt. Charleston...all great places (I've hiked trails at all of them). The problem is, they are in the SURROUNDING AREAS. Have you ever actually LIVED in the center of a city? People who live in the downtown areas usually rely on public transportation to get around. They may not have that disposable income that requires $5.00 or more to access those recreational areas. They need green areas. If I am wrong, then why do all those gated communities in places like Summerlin have large parks for their residents? How many parks are there within walking distance of downtown Las Vegas? How many city buses run to Valley of Fire or Red Rock Canyon? Las Vegas does have some nice large parks, but where are they located? Even Springs Preserve requires money to get in. If you go to places like Chicago or New York City, you will find islands of green where local residents can gather and have fun. In my limited travels through Las Vegas, I saw very little of that.
(continued from prevoius post)
I am a center city dweller in Pennsylvania. I live in a row home (think of it as a townhome with the garage in back). I have a front porch I sit on and chat with the neighbors. My neighborhood consists of many different ethnic backgrounds. Everyone gets along nicely, and there are parks, museums and entertainment venues all within walking distance. Las Vegas has all the trappings of the city I live in, on a larger scale. There is no reason to believe that Las Vegas can be, and IS, a great place to lay down roots. Maybe if everyone who spends so much time and energy complaining about the status of things would channel that energy into improving their community, they might not have so much to complain about.
macdaddyg
Yeah for the scope!
One thing you say needs counsel. Solar's attractive feature is that it's everywhere! Grabbing your own makes sense more than a centralized collection and traditional distribution system. Think of it as a fireplace and wood supply system. Everybody has their own space and free deliveries daily.
So there are way more jobs and way more chances for diversification, specialization and development than with a traditional 'build the plant, man it, etc' approach to energy jobs.
The emphasis on education is absolutely critical. There ought to be Solar Energy Clubs makin Skyminer Diners and having bake-offs. Solar water heaters and solar air heaters should go to needy families and installation comes with a pack of kids trying to help each other get it perfect before they leave.
High school curriculum needs to flex to include applications in physics, chem., econ., ethics, math, social impacts, histories of energy.
Community colleges and universities need to get with k-12 and agree that an understanding of certain energy principles and processes need to be standardized and taught to enable a workforce and national security interest.
Nevada is a great state for this in terms of available resource, but not in political will. I'd say the odds of getting a positive outcome from solar here are years out.
"Maybe if everyone who spends so much time and energy complaining about the status of things would channel that energy into improving their community, they might not have so much to complain about."
That's as sensible a sentence as I've read on this rag.
Whoever could say that should find whoever opened his eyes and showed him how to do things and why and then thank them for the kindness of guidance.
Oregon's unemployment is up there with Nevada's.
The racial breakdown leaves out Asians, who have a higher educational rate. The number of patents, while important, are of small significance, like the spring mechanism on a dvd player.
The number of college grads per capita is a better measure.
USA unemployment rate:
college gards %5
high school grads 13%
The notion that someone like Greenspun short circuits the ability of others to get rich, doesn't wash. Work smarter.
come to saint louis.
lots of culture from the FREE zoo, art museum, a HUGE central park, symphony, wineries, major league sports, italian food, 3 major universities, and much more.
just stay away from east st. louis. it makes north las vegas look like beverly hills.
macdaddyg
Great posts!
stevem
St. Louis has a baseball team, right? I like St. Louis. Great baseball fans.... good rivalry with that team from the northside of that big city up I55!
Let's hear it for enlightened cities like Seattle and their highly educated misfits. Last winters snow storms paralyzed the city. The enviro wackos at city hall and their supporters refused to use salt on their roads even though the state was willing to donate it. The wacks claimed using salt would kill all the grass, pollute the waterways, and cause thousands of dollars of damage to cars. All false excuses for their false belief in their superiority. In the meantime for over a week the bus system barely operated, people were stranded in their neighborhoods without means to get to the grocery store or doctors.
Exit12 said the greatest catastrophe of the twentieth century was the interstate highway system. Why? Because it allowed us little people to have the same freedoms as the "superior", in their own mind anyway, people. They don't like that and the climate change hoax is one of their ways to strike back. Get rid of the cars and make utilities so expensive we the rest of the people will be glued to our hovels scraping out a meager existence while the "superior" people live the life of gods.
Most of the museums, symphonies, ballets, and the artsy fartsy stuff the "superior" people enjoy have been on taxpayer life support for most if not all of their existence. The type of entertainment us "dregs" watch like TV, movies, strip joints, casinos are self supporting. Whats wrong with this picture? There's more examples of welfare for the "superior" ones but that's for another time.
The economy is not so hot, consumer confidence is terrible. Yet, Las Vegas is still going to draw 35 million people this year. This place is far from dead. Even though they are not spending as much, the people are still coming. That says a lot about the lure of Las Vegas. If the casino bosses insist on taking the fun out of Las Vegas to pay for bad business decisions and big bonuses, the decline will continue.
The biggest problem we have in this country is education. The "educated" on the whole think they are superior to the rest of us. Look at the current issues of the day like health care, climate change, globalization, and the like. The "educated" spread half truths and outright lies to stampede us into supporting their anti-people agenda. Their arrogance leads them to believe in their supposed superior intellect and that lying to justify their cause is A-OK. As Wall Street and politicians have shown, education and ethics rarely come in the same package.
So many of our corporations, private and public institutions are way overstaffed on "educated" people. Lean and mean doesn't exist in the white collar realm. That is about to change. While China, India, Brazil, and the rest of the up and coming countries are concentrating their educational efforts on math, science, engineering, and the like, our education industry is pushing for more liberal arts. So while the new powerhouse countries bury us in the grave dug by educated morons our liberal arts grads can write a poem about it and set it to music while collecting their unemploment checks. In the meantime companies will be outsourcing the educated jobs overseas so as to get lean and mean in the office. With instant communication around the world this is the new reality. Time for you "superior", "educated" people to wipe that smug arrogance off your face. Your day is coming faster than you realize.
Las Vegas to be the solar capital? Good luck here and anyplace else for that matter. If it isn't the NIMBY's, it will be the "educated" that will stop these projects in their tracks. Like they already have in many areas. Hydro power is the cheapest form of electricity, plus the flood control and water storage benefits, yet the "educated" would pull up every dam in the country if they could. These are selfish anti-people idiots that want to bury all human efforts and to return the earth to it's past. A past of disease, starvation, hardship, and early death. All because they are afraid of change and want to return to the imagined safety and security of simpler times. With them in charge of course. Our vision does not count, only theirs. After all they they are "superior" people. Legends in their own minds.
Ha! As long as we are based on an industry that only needs people with an ed-ja-ma-cay-shun to make change, to change bedsheets, and to count to 21, we are seriously STUCK'ed (that's the polite word), 'cuz that's all weez's gonna wanna pay for, ed-ja-ma-cay-shun wise (can you say Jethro?) Oops, I forgot serve up coffee, booze, and "hotel-girly-sports" (wink-wink).
Now throw into the mix that a BIG part of who lives here can't even read this article OR understand it (since it's in English) and you got the makin's of a real-deal "island economy" -- and like it or not, we're ALL on the island.
So now, praise as such, comes the Wise Men. Er, Paid Wise Men. Er-uhm Paid Wise Men in Expensive Suits with High Level Degrees and Big Screen Projectors.
And now the Wise Men regale and come before us to impart their learned wisdom so that we may be enlighted to the magnificent revelations of their divine and articulate vision for our future - sustainable, affordable, attainable... or not.
We have now been told. We have now been informed. We have now been enlightened.
We have now paid for something we already knew.
Odeman, after reading your post which I'm sure you proof-read, I don't feel so bad having smarter, 'superior' people in charge. I think the whole point of the article is that there needs to be numerious ideas and solutions. Don't be afraid to tear down some of your own walls, if there's a better proven way of doing things. That's the only reason we have been able to move ahead and enjoy some of the luxuries we have today.
As far as Las Vegas itself. I live in Alexandria, VA and I love it when I visit Vegas. But talk to anybody who visits Vegas and they all say the same thing, it's great for a weekend, but that's it.
Odeman hit it. Dams!
Seattle city light customers still pay about 2 cents a kwh. Nevadans pay 13, New Yorkers, 18.
No more June Hog Salmon, but cheap juice. Starving grizzlies, but cheap juice.
I, me, my.
Let's hear it for the wizard!!!
I like Island culture. Since you already knew, what plans are in the offing to alter current failing efforts at survival on a higher plane?
I meant Seattle Steam. Gosh these power companies change so often I can hardly keep up. I think it was in the 20's they switched. LOL
A fast, cheap, safe light rail connecting the UNLV area, downtown, the strip, and west I-15 might work if combined with high density low-moderate income condos for strip workers, seniors & students. Could even have a "station" at the ends to feed commuters into it, though I would think most will continue to drive (the traffic will have to get MUCH worse before people give up their cars; I'll downsize to a Smart before I give up the ride!)
As for inter-city travel by train, MAYBE something fast & convenient connecting the strip to Anaheim would work, but that's about it (ending in Victorville is a joke). I make the trip to SoCal 5-6 times a year and would consider a train to Anaheim but NEVER one that ends in Victorville. So Maglev yes, rail no (save the rail for cargo).
Interstate from Reno thru LV and then to Phoenix makes sense. Good for tourism & would help with LV becoming more of a regional transportation hub.
As for diversification, unlikely except for maybe some realtively small niche businesses that relate to entertainment, energy/water conservation, senior care, higher education in select fields, and or the military (linking to Nellis, Creech, Fallon & Irwin). LV is primarily entertainment & convention city that targets anyone with $$$, aka Sin City. That's what it is -- it's not Portland, Houston, SLC, etc...etc. High tech facilities combined with cheap decadent fun, that's what we do. That's our niche -- deal with it, build on it, embrace it. (But regulate it!)
But that doesn't mean we can't have quality schools, quality affordable healthcare, or safe streets. We just need to get away from trying to be something we're not (Portland, SLC, SoCal) and find our own path to a better quality of life.
JahReb,
We have a major racial achievement gap between whites and minorities across the country. The fact is, on average states with small minority populations tend to have better scores (Again the achievement gap). The reason for this is that minorities tend to be in poorer neighborhoods, have poor quality schools and are far more likely to have subpar teachers.
Education is SO BAD in Oregon that having a massive white population isn't doing them any favors - quality is just bad all around in that state.
As for our public parks, I was pointing out that we already had thousands of acres of public parks on the outskirts of the city. Why do we need more?
Also, I'd prefer having them privatized but its a very minor issue at this point.
Other than that, did you have a point or were you just rambling incoherently?
Mr. Gibbons.
A little history on the education situation in Oregon. Back when Barbara Roberts was governing the state, she cooked up a scheme that flew in the face of current thought about learning. It was HER opinion that we learn a little at a time. So across the state, they conjured up the pattern of a slug in an ever widening gyre. (Think Yeats!) According to the Gov., you're going to learn a little bit of math today, and then come back tomorrow and learn a little more, etc., rather than gobbling the subject in consumable bites. They underfed their kids. Child neglect on a statewide basis!
That's my opinion from watching it unfold. The higher ed piece in Oregon is pretty good, but the hangover from the Roberts years will abide.
They still even have a CIM and a CAM--certificates of initial mastery and of advanced mastery, little marks on a continuum.
It's an anomaly that is a little off the mark if you ask me, but nobody did.
Sounds like more evidence on why we don't need centralized control of public education.
No, the opposite is true, Patrick. Centralizing the education under APPROPRIATE GUIDANCE is what was needed, not some uninformed bureaucrat concocting curricular paths based on whim!
The results of one semi-informed soul will ripple through that state full of people for generations. One dumb mistake!
If education were tossed into the hands of those who could steer the kids down the better path, we would see some progress. Leaving their futures to the whim of gubers is not a good plan.
BTW, Patrick. I get the feeling you don't think much of Oregon. Have you ever been there? Yeah, I know it's got flaws. Unemployment, Demo Gov., etc. But it's gorgeous, green, and WET! The folks are friendly, well read and kind. Don't knock it til ya try it.
Geez, what this site really needs is the ability to filter out comments by specific users. It would be nice if we could filter out people who don't understand the concept of "you've made your point; saying it 28 more times with different words doesn't change anything".
Whoever said that people wouldn't use high speed trains is delusional. If there were a high speed train to Anaheim, I'd sure use it. I'm sure the SoCal crowds would be using it too. And, whoever said high speed trains wouldn't cut pollution is delusional as well.
The peeps at the Brookings Mountain West Institute wanted a paid JUNKET to Vegas and got one.
Let me break it down in simple terms:
Imagine a Vegas without the casinos and associated bling and debauchery and ask...would anyone want to live here or visit?
That tells you these clowns at the Brookings and their snake oil are pimping a dream...just like the blinking lights of a Megabucks dollar machine. Las Vegas is a sweltering hellhole in the desert with a high crime rate and not a single indigenous attraction beyond gaming and air conditioned indulgence. Don't try to re-invent the toothbrush here"it is a waste of time and money.