Las Vegas Sun

March 28, 2024

Q&A: :

Carol O’Hare, executive director of the Nevada Council on Problem Gambling

O'Hare

Steve Marcus

Community collaborator: Carol O’Hare, executive director of the Nevada Council on Problem Gambling, is shown after a July 15 interview.

Let’s take care of this matter right at the beginning: The toll-free number for Problem Gamblers HelpLine is (800) 522-4700.

“Be sure you get our HelpLine number in there somewhere,” said Carol O’Hare, executive director of the Nevada Council on Problem Gambling, an organization incorporated in 1984 to serve as a resource and provider of programs and services for people affected by problem gambling.

O’Hare, who considers herself a recovering compulsive gambler, served as a volunteer in 1993, became its secretary in 1995 and was named its first executive director in April 1996.

O’Hare talked with In Business Las Vegas about compulsive gambling, the resources offered by the council and some issues facing the gaming industry and how they relate to problem gambling.

IBLV: You’re the executive director of the Nevada Council on Problem Gambling. Explain what exactly the organization does.

O’Hare: The Nevada Council on Problem Gambling is a nonprofit organization, and we are the only organization in Nevada that concentrates our efforts solely on addressing problem gambling. So we do everything but provide the treatment services. We run the HelpLine, we do public education, we talk about problem gambling so the people in the community understand what it is, they know what the warning signs are and then they’re able to reach out and get help.

How would you define “problem gambling?”

Defining something as complicated as an addiction or mental health disorder can really baffle people. I think if you make it very simple, it’s easier. Problem gambling is different from social gambling. Social gambling is when people have limits, they set a time to go play, they have an amount of money they’re going to play, they go gamble for entertainment and (there aren’t) any negative consequences for that. Problem gambling is when you can’t stay within those boundaries. When you’re gambling longer than you planned, when you’re spending money that you can’t afford to spend, when you can’t set the boundary and stay within the boundary, then we suggest that is where a problem may begin.

How is addictive gambling the same or different from other addictive behaviors?

Actually, problem gambling is very much like other addictions. The distinction is that there is no substance to ingest. So when you think of alcoholism, when you think of drug abuse, you focus on the substance and you think about what the substance does inside the body. In reality, all addictions are based in the brain. So with problem gambling you have the same behaviors, you have the same consequences, you have the same urges, you have the same withdrawal symptoms. The only difference is that I don’t have to ingest a substance to have all those things happen in my brain. I simply have to engage in the habit of gambling.

Are some casino games more addictive than others? Has anyone ever studied what games are most or least addictive and why?

It’s kind of interesting that you would ask about the nature of the games. I actually got a research e-mail yesterday regarding the assumptions that have been made over time about whether one game is more addictive than the other. Bottom line, there’s no research that really answers the question. What we know is the experience for the problem gambler might be different based on the type of game. Typically what you’ll hear is people who are playing machines or playing electronic gaming — faster pace, more isolated — they seem to be able to get into deeper trouble more quickly. If you’re a race and sports book bettor, maybe it takes 10 or 20 years before you have enough activity to really experience the same kind of consequences. The bottom line is we don’t know what the nature of addiction is to the game. What we do know is that the real answer to the addiction lies in the individual’s brain. So whatever you match them up to, if they are predisposed to addiction, that game could be the one that triggers those behaviors.

So it could be different for everybody?

It’s totally different for everybody. Sometimes you have to go back to what we already know. Think about alcoholism: We know a fair amount about alcoholism in this country. Every alcoholic doesn’t look the same. In fact, sometimes the people who you would least imagine would be the alcoholic are the very ones who have the worst problems. Alcoholics don’t drink the same types of alcohol. They drink different beverages in different places at different times for different reasons in different amounts. And that’s what gamblers do, too.

You can gamble now in almost every state. How does Nevada compare with other states in problem gambling awareness?

I’m actually kind of pleased to say we’re doing a pretty good job now. There was a time 10 years ago that was a tougher question to answer. We were struggling to be able to get on top of this in the same way that other states had addressed the issue through funding and through providing resources. But we’ve done a pretty good job in the last 10 years. We have a certification requirement, so we have trained counselors in the state. We have money for treatment programs as well as for prevention. In fact, we just recently developed a five-year strategic plan based on efforts to look at problem gambling from the standpoint of prevention — not just wait until people fall off the edge of a cliff and how do we fix them, but how do we really start talking about this in a way that people hear problem-gambling-prevention messages in the same ways and in the same places that they would hear about drugs or alcohol or any other behavior that people need to be educated about.

What states are doing a better job than we are in addressing the issue? Why?

What’s really interesting about comparing the state efforts is you have to remember that everything is done independently in each state. Even the gaming industry is not federally regulated. When you look at the industry, it looks very different in every state. And, in fact, problem gambling programs will look very different in every state. What we see is that some states do better at some things than we do because it’s the nature of what goes on in their state. States that have lotteries very often have much larger public awareness campaigns that are much more aggressive because lotteries are pretty good at advertising. If they are the source of those funds for those programs, very often they have a much deeper set of resources for that. Other states have done an excellent job in looking at the whole aspect of prevention. We’re amazed at some of the prevention programs that have come out of Florida. Still others may have focused their attention on treatment. The benefit of being in the position that we’re in Nevada right now is that we don’t have to repeat the mistakes that other states have made and we’re actually able to benefit from some of the progress that’s been made. We’re using those models to develop the things that are going to be very effective in our state.

You obviously need — and get — help from the casino industry in your efforts. What companies, large and small, are doing an exemplary job of addressing problem gambling and what do they do?

Well ... exemplary. I guess if we had to say exemplary again, I would point out that companies sometimes focus their efforts based on what their particular needs or resources are. We’ve always been impressed with the efforts of Harrah’s, simply because it has such a history of working in this issue and because it has really taken some of its programs to a level that other companies — I won’t say they haven’t been willing — haven’t been equipped to do. We need to recognize that Harrah’s is pretty serious about what it’s doing. Other companies are just as serious, but they do different things.

What are some of the things that Harrah’s does that stand out?

Harrah’s has a unique component to its responsible gaming efforts within its properties. It’s not just putting out the signs, putting up the brochures, providing information to guests. It actually has a very aggressive training program for management that involves creating trained ambassadors who are really equipped to go in and sit down and speak to a guest if there is a problem that presents itself in a way that the company feels that it needs to at least inform the guest that it’s concerned about what’s going on. It’s still not trying to determine if someone has a gambling problem. But I think it’s trying to be very aggressive about paying attention to the information that comes to the company through the guest’s behavior or through employees making reports and comments about their concerns with a guest. Again, everybody can’t and won’t do that and I caution people — sort of the don’t-try-this-at-home warning — when you say “exemplary,” my first reaction to that word is any company that has chosen to do something and is doing the best it can to do a good job at it, that’s exemplary. They’re all going to operate on different levels, and we welcome the participation and support at any level that they’re able to be a part of promoting what is considered responsible gaming in this state.

There must be companies out there that aren’t helping. What can you say about them?

Fortunately, we have at least a baseline standard in Nevada through gaming regulations. So technically, there should not be any gaming operators in Nevada that aren’t supporting the work that’s being done because the regulation requires them to put up the HelpLine number and to provide information. Again, it’s a minimum standard, but I think it’s an important fact that if everybody is doing the most basic thing that can be done, we probably are going to get ahead of the curve on this. Are there companies that aren’t doing anything? Probably so, but that’s as much shame on us as it is possibly shame on many others who haven’t been able to really get that message out to those companies that this is a part of your business. We need to see all companies comply with doing what is required to be in their business.

So at the risk of getting you in a whole lot of trouble, can you name names?

No, of course not. It’s funny, I’ve actually been accused of being an apologist for the gaming industry because I’m not keeping score. The Nevada council doesn’t take a position on gaming. We aren’t out there trying to figure out who’s the good guy and who’s the bad guy. We’re focusing on an aspect of the gaming industry that sort of crosses our path. They provide a product, and we know that there are people who are not going to be able to use that product without harm. Our focus is: “How are we going to get everybody standing on that one piece of real estate that we all share and do as much as we possibly can within that realm?” So I don’t need to name names or throw stones because my goal is to get them all to recognize the opportunity to be a part of that, not to simply see people feeling as if they’re being punished or blamed because they’re certainly not creating the problem gamblers. But they have a role to play in this.

Do you think companies should be penalized if it can be proved that they took advantage of an individual with a gambling problem? A fine? A license revocation?

I think the problem is to say how do you define when somebody has taken advantage of because I can tell you that I myself am a recovering compulsive gambler. The insanity of what the addiction causes in terms of your thinking and what you will do in the course of that addiction are pretty intense and frightening in some cases. So I don’t know that I can fully look at that as they can do something to take advantage of me in the throes of my addiction. What I will say, though, is let’s enforce what we have. There’s a gaming regulation in the books. It’s very clear. You do certain things as a part of your right to practice in this business we call gaming in Nevada. In that regard, yes. I don’t know that a fine is the answer, but I think there needs to be enforcement in the level that we’re communicating the importance of that, and I feel like the Control Board is genuine in its desire that standard be met. Unfortunately, it probably also is enforcing a lot of other things. So we don’t necessarily see the big reports coming out. What we do see, though, and we’re very pleased about it, is, very often, the call we get from those smaller gaming operators who are just now finding out that they need to do these things, that the call comes in because the Control Board has said, “You need to do this and you’re not doing it. But that’s OK, we just want you to call and take care of it.” The goal is to get everybody doing it, not to punish people for not doing it because I need the phone number on the wall. Fining you for not putting my phone number on the wall doesn’t do a single thing for the person out there who needs to make that phone call.

Experts say 1 percent to 2 percent of those who play nationwide are problem gamblers. In locals casinos, slot bars and convenience stores, what’s your best guess as to the portion of the money won by operators that comes from problem gamblers? Is it higher in Nevada because of the availability?

Well I don’t know how to quantify the portions of the money because I don’t really have the numbers on who’s making what and who’s playing what. Here in Nevada, our prevalence study would indicate that we are probably two to three times higher in prevalence than that 1 to 2 percent that is being quoted nationwide. What that says is we have more people potentially out there having these problems. Where are they playing? Convenience is a factor. I would say that if we’re going to really look at our local population, let’s be realistic and look in our local venues. This is why it is important that this regulation covers everybody. Just saying Harrah’s is doing marvelous things on the Strip doesn’t affect the person who may be living in North Las Vegas and is only going around the corner to play. We have to understand that problem gambling is happening everywhere, and we need to be putting this information out wherever the problem gambler may be.

In a perfect world, what would be the best we could do to address problem gambling problems without decimating our most important industry?

In a perfect world, we’d have an economy that allowed us to support everything we all need to do and unfortunately there are a lot of programs and a lot of industries that are struggling. I think in a perfect world what we need to be able to do is not only sustain the services that we have but we need to be realistic about what that 6 percent number really means. We do not have the services if everyone who had a gambling problem decided they wanted help, and that’s really the perfect-world scenario. Can we ever reach the point where the programs are available? If I had my wish list, I would like to see treatment funded in a way that the burden isn’t on the problem gambler to come up even with his $5 a session, but that there is some way to put some more responsibility on insurance companies and employers, people who generally provide for health care. Let’s make this more accessible to the folks who, frankly, are probably experiencing the greatest lack of resources at the time when they have the greatest need for treatment.

Should the Legislature do more to address problem gambling and if so, what should it do?

We actually had some progress again in this last legislative session. There’s a bill that was passed that will allow our court system to start taking into account when crimes are committed really, solely because of someone having a gambling problem and hopefully diverting those folks into treatment. Other things are a little more subjective and maybe more subtle, whether or not they require legislative action or simply require more public attention: Things like looking at where we are already providing services. If you go into an agency to get some kind of services, whether it’s mental health counseling or homeless services, if they are screening you for a substance abuse problem in Nevada as part of their program requirements, there’s absolutely no reason not to be screening you for a gambling problem. Gambling problems go hand in hand with everything else we look at in terms of potential problems in our community. And that’s an area where we haven’t been able to make as much progress. But, we also have a job to do tomorrow, so it’s certainly on the list of priorities we’d like to see happen.

Should problem gamblers be banned from casinos, like those in the Gaming Control Board’s Black Book?

I have watched the evolution of the so-called self-limiting, self-banning or self-exclusion programs over the last decade as this has developed in the industry. I have to say I’m not a real fan and I actually contributed a great deal of information to the creation of one of the first ones, which was the Missouri program. What I’m not a fan of is creating programs that can’t be enforced. So when you ask yourself should we be banning problem gamblers from casinos in Nevada, I would ask you to give me an example of how you’re going to build the program. Show me where you’re going to get the funds to get that great police force that’s going to have to be created, and then give me some research-based evidence that says all of that is really dollar-for-dollar worth the investment that we’re going to put into it. My gut instinct says you’re not going to be able to win the argument.

So I think what we have to do is look at who are we in Nevada. What are the opportunities for gambling? What are the ways that we can use our resources in the best way to reach the individual? I’m not sure that self-banning is ever going to make sense here. I do think that we have plenty of opportunities to do a lot more to be open to recognizing folks who have problems and maybe that’s where we go back to education, education, education. That’s not as exciting as having a banning program. The bottom line is we have to learn more about this and what does it look like for this person to be in the environment and how do we best provide the resources, not only when they’re in the environment to reach them, but how do we make sure that once they say, “I think I have a problem,” they’re going to leave the gaming environment. The answer won’t be there. When they leave the gaming environment and they go into the community and say, “Now I want to get help,” that’s where we have to do a better job.

Has the time come for Nevada to reconsider allowing slot machines in grocery stores?

Well I’m not sure that we have too many options for turning back time. We are a state that has evolved. I think that same question can be asked of any state. Is there a state that should be asking themselves if the lottery is too big? I don’t know if the question should be how do we undo anything. But again, and probably I’m sounding a bit like a broken record, we have to get better at what we do going forward. We have to be able to think more clearly about those decisions, not just in their economic impact, not just in convenience to the customers who are the 90-some percent who won’t have a problem. But let’s think about those things in terms of the potential impact on that 6 percent. The decision may still be that the convenience gaming overall is a good thing for Nevada. But if that’s the decision, let’s make sure we’ve made it in an intelligent way. And let’s make sure that we’ve explored all the options for insuring that those programs and services and information is going in the door when the building opens.

Some say that because Las Vegas and Nevada have gotten bigger that there is no need to have slots in grocery stores and convenience stores any more. Anything to that?

I don’t know. Unfortunately, I’m no longer the expert in where somebody’s going to gamble because I haven’t gambled in 18 years. But I live in the community and I do see people still using whatever the most convenient resource is. I’m not sure that it’s a quantity question. I think it really still comes down to a quality question. Are we creating less of a quality of life because they’re there? I don’t know on a community level. On an individual level, the problem gambler is going to use whatever access to gambling is made available. You’re never really going to change it by moving the locations around. The problem is inherent in the individual’s brain. Most problem gamblers will tell you that they might not be willing to drive across town to go to a dentist appointment, but they’d drive 20 miles to go to their favorite place to play. And they might have had 20 other choices between their house and that location. And then there are those who will tell you they never went farther than around the block. It’s all based on individual choice. If you look at what we really understand about addiction. Line up a hundred alcoholics and ask them about the location of their bar and the choice of their alcohol. You won’t get too many same answers. It’s very individualized, and it’s choice.

Walk us through the process of what happens when the council receives a call from someone seeking help.

First of all, the toll-free 800 number that is being posted everywhere, we are not the call center and it’s important for people to understand that. Certainly for people who call our office, we can provide all the same resources. But that 800 number is actually staffed 24 hours a day by people who are trained to do nothing but talk to problem gamblers who are having difficulty. What’s going to happen, the first thing when you call that number is that they are simply going to say, “How can I help you?” This is not a crisis intervention where we get on the phone and call out the van to come to your house and pick you up and carry you away. This is an opportunity for the individual to have a confidential conversation with someone who actually knows about problem gambling. They’re going to certainly determine if there is any immediate crisis that needs immediate attention. And that could be a family with children who are telling us that they have been evicted from their home. We don’t just get them to treatment programs for their gambling problem, we get them to services. So they’re going to be given options. At the end of the day, they’ll choose what to do with those options. The HelpLine staff is going to give them the options that are available to them in the community to not only address the immediate consequences, but to give them some choices that they can make if they’ve decided that their gambling isn’t doing anything good for them anymore and they want to make something change.

It’s a nationwide hotline?

The number that we’re using in Nevada is actually the national HelpLine number. We consciously chose to do that — in fact, that’s how it is stated in the gaming regulation that it is to be that number that is posted. We have a very transient community as well as we have a huge tourist population. So we use the national number, but when you dial that national number from anywhere in the country you will be routed to the call center that has the resources for the area code you’re making that phone call from. So the benefit of using the national number here is not only are you still going to get the same services that we’re going to ensure you can get in Nevada, but if you happen to only have been here for a week and you take one of those brochures home with you, you’re going to be able to call that number from anywhere else in the country and get those services for yourself in your own location. You might not decide until you get home and get off the plane and you look back at what the week was like. That might be the time when you say maybe I’m not comfortable about what’s happening with my gambling and I want out.

So it’s not one central call center.

It is not a central call center but actually a network of call centers. The Nevada council is one of 35 state affiliates of the national council. So between the national council and those state affiliates we have ensured that there are call centers that are taking these calls to cover all the regions of the country. If there’s a council in your state, then certainly it is your council that is ensuring that phone gets answered. But even in states where there’s no council — I can’t do the math, but there are some of them — they’re still using the phone number. You can still call the phone number from that location. The national council office will ensure that call is going into the nearest call center to provide those services to them as well.

So your office helps finance the local call center?

We are the financing for the call center. And that’s an important thing for people to understand. We’re a nonprofit organization. Sadly, there are still some individuals in the community and sometimes even in the business community who think nonprofit means no money. That’s not the case. It takes a great deal of money to provide a 24-hour service like that along with many other things that we do. I think we have a really great collaborative approach in Nevada. Through that gaming regulation that’s requiring that number to be posted on the wall and requiring those folks to put out brochures, to do training programs, many of those companies are relying on the programs that we’re able to provide. So when they spend money, even, on the services that they’re doing or the requirements that they have under that regulation, that money actually goes to make sure that call center is in place. So we’re not making money off a brochure on the wall. Those pennies per brochure is what is used to make sure that phone is answered. While we’re assisting, on average, maybe anywhere from 1,500 to 2,000 people a year, the phone actually rings over 10,000 times a year. Because it’s everywhere. We don’t get to choose when to answer the phone just because 40 percent of those calls might be prank calls, or 40 percent might be wrong numbers, or 40 percent are curiosity. People say, “I saw this phone number on the wall in the casino and I want to know what it is.” So it’s a pretty extensive service that we provide, but it is worth it.

Those answering the calls can direct people to the proper resources. But do we have the expertise in Nevada to deal with some of these addictive behaviors?

Actually, one of the first legislative actions around this issue was in 2003 when the Legislature adopted the certification standard for professional counselors. So we not only have people who are experienced and educated in this, but they’ve met a required standard under the law that says, “You have to know your stuff to be able to say you’re a problem gambling counselor.” So what we’re able to do now is we have a network of these folks throughout the state, through the HelpLine we’re able to give consumers the locations of treatment closest to them. On our Web site now, this information is available 24 hours a day in real time. If somebody calls and tells us the program is not open until 9 o’clock in the morning and it used to open at 8, we can have that information available to the public within six minutes on the Web site through a searchable database.

So are these counselors in Nevada pretty busy these days?

They’re very busy. They’re busy in the sense that there’s more opportunity for people to come in and get the services so they are using those services more. But sadly, if you look at that number, you keep going back to that 6 percent. They’re not all coming in to treatment. Not everybody needs treatment. Many of these folks are going to support groups, they’re going to Gamblers Anonymous. Sometimes they’re accessing other forms of treatment without going into a specific addiction program. But I suspect that we have a lot more service we could provide. I would be interested to know where would the saturation point be in Nevada where we would say, “Gosh, we have too many treatment programs,” and “We have more counselors than clients.” I don’t think we’re facing that anytime soon.

You’ve talked a lot about assisting problem gamblers, but there are other hidden victims — their families. What resources do you have to help them?

We’re trying to make sure that when we talk about problem gambling that we are talking about the effect on everyone. So when it comes to the family member, there are things we have to remember. First of all, many of those family members are suffering in silence because they’re not going to open up and say there’s a problem in the family because they’re afraid of repercussions. So we have to make the message available to them, as well. Putting the HelpLine number out, that’s not just for the gambler. If you’ve got somebody in your family who has a gambling problem, you are hurting. You are being affected. You have a problem.

If they call the HelpLine, there are resources for them as well. They can certainly go to treatment resources. They may need to seek legal or financial resources just to ensure that they can protect the family, even if the gambler decides to get help. They may not decide to get help. The family does not have to follow the same path as the gambler if they’re able to get those resources. One of the focuses has to be how do we take care of the people who didn’t ask for this problem, but are suffering the same kinds of consequences. I would hope the family members would become more comfortable with believing that there is help for them, too, because there is, and families certainly can find a way to deal with this. And sometimes, just by the family reaching out for help, that may motivate the gamblers to take a closer look at what’s happening in their lives and how important it is to get the help that they need.

Are there a lot of families facing this?

The old standard cliche is that addiction never lives in isolation. It is a family disease. And I can assure you that if you have a gambling problem, you can think you’re an orphan affecting no one. But you are affecting someone, whether it’s that immediate family — the spouse and the children and the folks who are right around you who may be suffering the worst consequences because there are financial implications, security and all kinds of things. But broaden the circle. What about your employer? What about your neighbors? What about your community at large? When you can no longer function because of your gambling problem or when you commit a crime because of your gambling problem or when you turn to the resources in this state to take care of your needs because you can’t take care of them anymore, we are all being affected and we are all paying some kind of price for the problem. The other thing we know about addiction is that treatment is a lot cheaper than allowing all those consequences to drain the resources of the community. If we can get to folks sooner, if we can get them into treatment services and we can stop that bleeding, everybody benefits eventually. Some will need more help than others, but everybody will benefit eventually.

Has the down economy produced more or fewer problem gambling problems?

Everybody wants to know the answer to the question, “What is the effect of the economy?” There’s really two answers to the question and, again, this is just based on informed assumption over the years. Nobody’s yet been able to pull any data together, it’s too soon to be able to quantify this. But I can tell you, there’s two things you can expect to happen.

One is, yes, there’s the potential that people who are already suffering gambling problems or maybe who were on that edge, maybe this is that last straw. Maybe this is the stress that puts them over the edge and they gamble more. They may even be motivated to gamble more thinking that it’s an opportunity to recoup money that they’re losing in other ways. To what extent will those folks move into being diagnosable as pathological gamblers? We don’t know. We do know there is some greater risk there.

There’s also another scenario that could happen and we hope does happen for some people. For some of those folks who were possibly gambling without a lot of thought to how much money or time, feeling secure and confident and not really thinking about gambling as having any potential harm. If they’re experiencing negative impact from the economy, it may be the first motivator for them to step back and say, “Wait a minute. Can I afford to spend this money?” Because one of the distinctions you want to look for when you’re saying, “Is it social or is it a problem?” Are you spending discretionary funds? I think the economy is changing the definition of discretionary funds for some folks. Hopefully, people are looking at that question and adjusting their behaviors accordingly, whether it’s gambling or anything else they may be spending their money on.

How has the economy affected support for the Nevada council and other problem gambling groups?

We don’t really know if the economy is going to have a great impact on us. I think everybody is feeling the concern. I know we have made some changes over the last year. For 10 years, we had a wonderful golf tournament that we all enjoyed putting on and it was a great fundraising event. We opted not to do the golf tournament this last year. We were getting indicators from other organizations that those kinds of events were not succeeding as well as they had in the past because companies were having to cut back. We have not had a chance to really analyze our bottom line, per se. I think, realistically, we know we have to be very conscientious about the funds we do have. We’re hoping that our current supporters — the corporate donors that have been with us for a dozen years now — are secure enough to be able to continue their support at the level they have. And if they don’t, we’re going to talk to them and make sure that what they can do is being done. That’s the most important thing.

How do you raise money besides soliciting corporate donations?

One of the very simple ways and a big part of what we do is the employee training programs. We have had a training program in place since before the regulation went into effect, but it was a convenient time to adapt it to meet the needs of the industry. Many of the gaming companies either have us train their employees directly, and we charge a fee for those services, or we license that program to larger companies so they have a program that meets the needs, based on good information. They don’t have to become problem gambling experts and they’re able to provide the training to their employees that they are required to under the regulation. Those funds that we generate through those services are used to supplement all those other services we provide for which no fees are charged — the HelpLine and all the public awareness work that we do. So some of the programs generate the funds to support them.

High schools have a number of programs focusing on the dangers of drug use and drunken driving. Should there be similar awareness programs about gambling, especially in a place like Las Vegas?

There actually are some programs that are now being used in high schools. We’re very pleased that one of the prevention programs that we created during some of the first round of grant funding called “Given the Chance” — a simple film and a discussion guide being used in several high schools now in Clark County. We don’t have any sort of comprehensive program going on. What is happening, though, and I think it’s important to understand that there’s sort of an evolution to these things, is that the advisory committee on problem gambling that is allocating the state funds for program services through the grant system is placing a very high priority not only on youth and on seniors, but a very high priority on let’s not reinvent the wheel. Let’s find what’s out there that works and how do we bring gambling into it. There actually have been some existing programs in the schools where problem gambling has been woven into it, sort of the upgrade to the program. So some classes are actually getting problem gambling information. The program didn’t particularly change, it doesn’t look different, same name, same process that they used before. But they’ve been able to put problem gambling information into it. So I think we’ll see more of that as time goes on and we’re able to identify where are the best opportunities to those simple adjustments and improvements to programs as opposed to investing large sums of money into developing large programs on their own.

What’s the council’s stance on Internet gambling? Would addictive behavior increase if legalized gambling were available online?

Actually, the council doesn’t take a position for or against legal gambling. So then when you ask me what our position is on Internet, I sometimes have to scratch my head because I have to ask you today is it legal or illegal. There’s still a lot of controversy over what defines legal versus illegal Internet gambling. So we don’t particularly take a position on it. Again, our position, typically, is whichever way that goes is not what determines whether or not people are having problems over it. I can assure you that there are plenty of problem gamblers who are gambling on the Internet, probably even as we speak, and it may be their preferred form of gambling. We have to continually be focusing on how do we mitigate the circumstances for these individuals, not how do we regulate the problem out of existence. We tried prohibition in this country once. It didn’t work. Although there are certainly plenty of legal and political and all kinds of arguments about what should be legal and what shouldn’t — and I’ll leave that up to those experts to decide. But what we’re hoping is in the course of that debate, problem gambling needs to be a part of the discussion. In whatever way that affects the debate, I’ll leave that up to the decision-makers to decide. But problem gambling is not going away because somebody puts it in a corner or puts the casino too far out of town so that we don’t drive there or take it off the Internet. It is what it is.

Does the council have a stance on sports wagering and on poker tournaments?

I think it’s the same issue for whatever form of gambling. But again, when we look at each of these individual forms of gambling, which today it’s not so much that we’re creating new forms of gambling — we’re really just kind of creating new delivery systems. The Internet is just a delivery system. There is no new way to gamble there. Sports betting is a delivery system. People have been betting on sports forever in this country. Whether or not you legalize a delivery system for that in a state becomes another issue. Poker tournaments: Poker has been around forever. Ask anyone who has been in the business in this town. But the way we are now delivering it to the consumer looks very different. So I’m hoping that what we see is the evolution in are we going to do a better job of dealing with problem gambling. Are we going to do a better job of looking at the delivery systems and saying, “How do we leverage this so that we’re delivering all of the information?” If you’re marketing gaming, if you are the marketing manager of anything — the casino gaming company, the Internet gaming company or the poker tournament — your job is to get the message out to 100 percent of your potential consumer base out there that this is something fun and wonderful and come and enjoy our product.

The problem is that there are 6 percent of those folks out there who can’t enjoy your product. Now what do you do? You can’t screen them out before you send out the flier. You can’t screen them out before you put the ad on TV. So I go with simple math. Can you make sure that 6 percent of the airtime or 6 percent of the space on the ad or a portion of the time and energy you put into developing your marketing messages to your social gamblers. Could you put something into how do we market a better answer for the folks who are going to have a problem and it’s not really that hard to do, but it takes the time and the energy and it has to become a priority, not just of a regulator. It has to become a priority of the community and the community involves us all. We don’t get to pick and choose who gets to be responsible for that on any given day.

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