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Public option is answer to better health care
Thursday, Sept. 3, 2009 | 2:04 a.m.
A letter to the editor from Allen Hawkes in Tuesday’s Las Vegas Sun, headlined “Answers missing on health care proposals,” raises the standard opposition arguments to health care reform. The answers are not that difficult:
Tort reform is not that big a need. Most large awards are fully justified by the malpractice involved, and the majority of huge awards that are clear problems are greatly reduced on appeal. The lack of inclusion of this matter in the legislation is also a direct result of pressures from lawyer advocates. (The same is true for the illegal immigration policy, both in its importance in costs and in the pressures from business to leave the question alone.) Tort reform really starts with state medical boards that have been more than remiss in removing habitually offending physicians.
I lived in Canada (great socialized medicine in Ontario) when the government restricted any extra-billing by physicians. The money-hungry ones moved to the United States. I would hope that a large number of the “best and brightest” would like to practice medicine rather than run an office devoted to filling out numerous insurance forms.
If we have a failure by our Congress, it will be the lack of a government-run option.
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this goes to birdiedreaming. Review the following please it might make your day
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Enjoy and maybe tone it down a little yippy skippy
Sure, people are going to be happy with government healthcare until they are seriously ill. After that you get put on the waiting list until you die.
jlb101,
Why do you ignore the statistics on this, take the outliers on the curve, and then exaggerate out of all proportion what is happening in other countries? I know your argument is weak but do you really have to be so pathetic?
There will be no meaningful health reform without tort reform. Sorry to break that to you, but that's just the way it is.
I am 63 yrs old and willing to admitt that I don't understand how the idea of national health care for all will work.... I'm also undecided that it is or isn't a good idea.
Does anyone know who pays and how much it will cost[bottom line?]
Example 1 ... Suzzie is a single mom with 2 kids and makes minimum wage.
Example 2 ... Tom and Jill are a married couple with 2 kids and have a combined income of 90,000 per year.
Question????
Are 1 and 2 going to pay the same amount for their goverment issued health coverage?
Canadian Poll:
Over 70% of Canadians state that they have to wait a long time for an appointment when they are referred to a specialist.
Only 60% of Canadians state that they are kept waiting when they arrive for scheduled healthcare appointments.
mschaffer-Go read some Canadian or Brittish newspapers on line. You will find all kind of horror stories that don't get repeated over here.
Other than greed on your part, give me one good reason why I should pay higher taxes to support Obamacare.
The government has enough of its ugly nose into the private business of Americans. NO PUBLIC OPTION!!85% of Americans are presently covered by health coverage--255 million! Of the 15% that are not covered one half or 22 million can afford it. Another 10 million or so are illegal immigrants who should be deported. That leaves about 13 million who need coverage who cannot afford it. Let's focus on this small problem and leave the rest of American the hell alone. You nut case leftist liberals are the scourge of America---go find your Nirvanna some where else. Canada's health care system, and that of the UK are in shambles. Don't even dream of bringing those messes to America.
hey daniel...
excellent letter...
look folks...
it's real simple...
you either support the public option...
and we drive the cost of health care down...
or...
you support the excessive profits of the greedy pig insurance companies and the excessive salaries of the money grubbing whore doctors...
every thing else is just noise...
started by those with a vested interest in the outcome...
period...
end of story!!!
And lets not forget, drive down the quality of care when you drive down the cost. You always get what you pay for - remember the Yugo, cheap car, lasted about two weeks. Cheap care, find an undertaker.If this is not a Socialist country, whats wrong with making money? The only ones who cry about folks making money, are those that want to share the wealth. You slackers need to make your own way, right Birdie?? Or should we pay your way???
Birdie showed up four hours late for work this morning and needs to turn in a note from the mother bird before he can leave his cage...
"The lack of inclusion of this matter in the legislation is also a direct result of pressures from lawyer advocates. (The same is true for the illegal immigration policy, both in its importance in costs..."
So Daniel - you indicate that our illegal immigration policy is neither very important nor costly.
So much for your credibility.
pmmart:
I don't think anyone will "pay" for universal health care in America directly but I think this is what it will cost. I think the idea is that taxpayers will "pay" for it. And least anyone think that "the rich" can be stuck with the bill.....Well, they are dreaming.
Anyway......
These numbers are available on government websites anyone can find with about 15 minutes of research.
U.S. Health care in 2007 consumed about 16% of the GDP or about 2.214 trillion dollars.
With universal coverage the taxpayers would have to absorb 2.214 trillion dollars in health care expenses. If you take out the 447 billion for Medicare and the 345.7 billion for Medicaid (which we are already paying) then you are left with 1.412 trillion that has to be made up.
There were only a total of 90.53 million tax returns filled last year by earners that paid taxes. If you count those filling jointly there were a total of 110.53 million total tax payers.
So now it is easy. The burden of universal coverage is $1.412 trillion/110.53 million tax payers = $12,774.81 per taxpayer more than you are paying now ($25,549.62 for those filling jointly). That's $1,064.50/month ($2,129.00/month for couples filing jointly).
Does that help?
Pro health care reform protester bites off finger of man opposed to reform. And the anti reform folks are radical???
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090903/ap_o...
No there won't be death panels. Telegraph.co.uk reports "patients with terminal illness made to die prematurely" in the UK.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/health...
pbim72, your 1.42 trillion dollar figure assumes that all private insurance will magically vanish overnight. That's naive, completely dishonest and a particularly foolish assumption.
pmmart, not all people will be allowed onto a public plan. If your employer provides private insurance, you get private insurance. If you lose your coverage, you can purchase new insurance from a health care exchange... just like the stock market, except for insurance. That exchange will have public AND private insurance plans for you to choose from. For low-income citizens, the government will provide tax credits to assist in paying for health care, on a sliding scale.
Under your scenario, the well-to-do family would probably not qualify for tax credits, but would probably see a reduction in their premiums as the public/private options drove down the overall cost of health care.
The single mom, providing she is not an executive earning six or more figures, would probably qualify for health care tax credits to assist in paying her premiums.
I'm saying "probably" because the bill that is closest to becoming law is still up for debate/amendments/reconciliation.
Dr. Kevorkian is out of jail and looking for a job. Maybe he could get a job on one of the proposed "End of life panels."
"No there won't be death panels. Telegraph.co.uk reports "patients with terminal illness made to die prematurely" in the UK."
The UK has a National Health Service. No such plan is under consideration in the United States. You draw another faulty parallel.
This is why the baseless lies must be exposed. People like pbim72 have absolutely no understanding of the health care debate and rely on bizarrely false statistics and faulty parallels to scare the general public.
I will phone the "National Enquirer" and ask them if they know anything about "Death Panels" being considered by the people who wrote HR-3200...
Inquiring minds need to know...
Inquiring minds read the legislation and know there is no such thing, Larry. Lazy minds continue the charade...
Let me see... End of Life Panels will/could determine what degree of medical care a "Senior Citizen" will/might receive.
As a "Senior," I do not want to take this chance.
No matter anyway... HR-3200 is history...
No, Larry, stick with your private insurance death panels. They're much more lenient.
Thank you very much, I think I will...
"HR-3200 is history..."
It's naive to count your chickens before they hatch. Some other commenters declared the public option dead weeks ago, yet it's still there, and you're still desperately lying about it.
Seems the republicans can't seal the deal lately.
Pinky panels!
HR-3200 will lay where it is at and will never see the light of day again...
Listen to the President... He knows...
listen up boys and girls...
pbim is a complete and total fraud...
a health care professional...
pathetically posting here to to keep his gravy train flowing...
conclusive proof that he is a fraud...
his post above where he pathetically continues his pathetic fear mongering attempts with talk of death panels...
there are no death panels in the public option...
none whatsoever...
if anything...
there are death panels now...
they are known as insurance companies...
pbim is a complete and total fraud...
support the public option...
end excessive profits for the greedy pig insurance companies!!!
end excessive salaries for the money grubbing whore doctors!!!
houstonjac is a total and complete fraud...
on medicare...
yet he wants no public option...
what a total and complete fraud!!!
Good! The Bird is back and teaching the non-believers how to toe/tow the line.
He's been over at Heidi's place the "Dirty Dog." He says that he didn't get groomed but he looks pretty slick to me. Henderson went over there but never made it back. I might have to go to the "Dirty Dog" and check on him.
Oh, by the way... Sign up for Birdie's new column called "The Bird got the word" or "The Bird got the worms" and he will give you a discount coupon for a grooming at the "Dirty Dog."
As I said in another posing: You have to have, as you call it, rich people to create jobs for others. Its called enterprise. And as those workers create income, they in turn spend their money and create further opportunities for others. Will someone please explain to me why many of these posters have it in for anyone who has some money??? Birdie, why are are so set against someone having a few bucks more than you???
The swede starts his study.
Step 1: Stick finger in the air.
Step 2: Wind is blowing from the east.
Step 3: Concludes that wind always blows from the east in Sweden based on his personal one sample.
Step 4: Claims that wind always blows from the east in Sweden as gospel truth.
Step 5: Reject all studies by government agencies and other experts who spend millions of dollars and thousands of hours of research and collect sampling wind tendencies and many times publish those findings in a peer-reviewed journals.
Yep...that dar' swede is realllll smart.
Let's see. Who's opinion should we believe on Sweden's health care?
SgtRock, err, jfNance32, err James F Nance, Jr, who cherry-picks statistics and right-wing blogs...
Or someone who actually lives there and is part of the system?
That "dar' swede" has dismantled every argument you've thrown at him.
Daniel Lordahl failed to state one reason for a public option.
The LV Sun should print letters from people that have something to say.
Hey edge,
1.42 trillion is a real number that people should be thinking about right now. You hope to deceive people in to thinking that the public option will be some magical, glorious thing from heaven that will solve the world's ills with no consequence or cost. Who is the real fraud?
All you hear is that the government will offer health insurance that is less costly than private insurance because the government will not be in it to make a profit. Do I really have to tell you what will happen to private insurance after that? And maybe that will be a good thing? Who knows?
But, business people will not be buying their employees insurance once this is up and then we will have a singe payer system of socialized medicine. And "edge" I didn't draw any "parallel" I simply provided info on another country that has socialized medicine. People are smart enough to decide for themselves what the future might hold.
Finally, edge, I understand plenty about this debate. If the government can offer insurance for less than I am paying now for my employees you can bet I'll be putting them in it. And, with the money I save".. I'll probably buy another Rolex
And BirdBreath.
Typical radical, left wing loon (pardon the pun).
Never anything intelligent to say that contributes to the debate. The standard playbook for left wing nut jobs is to call people they disagree with names once they run out of facts to support their radical agendas. That's what passes for an argument?
Double you dosage, lie back, and take a few deep breaths. You'll feel better soon.
By Sergio the Prophet:
"We all know that Bush-CIA had a secret drug smuggling op in place at the time."
We all don't know, I don't, so please inform me so I will know... I just hate it when someone says "We all know" or "Everyone knows" or "Everyone agrees"
Let's get health reform done without all the rhetoric.
hey pbim the fraud...
there really is only one issue to debate...
do you support the public option which will drive the cost of health care down...
or...
do you support the excessive profits of the greedy pig insurance companies with their very real death panels and the excessive salaries of the money grubbing whore doctors...
that's it pbim...
all of the crap you raise is designed to change the subject...
period...
end of story...
stop the noise you complete and total fraud!!!
"Who is the real fraud?"
The real fraud is the commentor who foolishly thinks private insurance is going to magically disappear. Um, that would be you.
It's dishonest to assume so, and there are plenty of other countries with public health insurance which coexists with private health insurance. Your statistics have no basis in reality, and are a pretty pathetic attempt to scare people, rather than figure out the true cost.
Private health insurance exists in Europe. So either you're not that aware of how a public option would impact the market, or you're lying in an attempt to scare people.
Please don't call Birdie a fraud.
He may be flawed, but he's no fraud.
Also, the Bird does not lie in an attempt to scare people. The Bird can scare people by just being himself.
You two are so crazy. I could give a crap about the insurance industry. What I care about is this country.
Why are you so afraid of facts??
These are not "my" statistics. They are published by the freaking government you love and trust so much.
You radical Libs are so afraid of people having access to all sides of an issue that you will demean and debase anyone who tries to inform so that people can ultimately make up their own minds.
If you have different statistics, let's see them.
What's pathetic is the constant attempt to supress discourse with name calling. You live in a world where you imagine that what you propose is all benefit with no consequences.
Let Bird and edge run the country and you might as well drive your car in to a brick wall (how's that for an argument).
I think Michael Savage was right: "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder".
Las Vegas Sun: Hate the new format of the message post site. You have to scroll through all the pages to get to the bottom. Bad. You post a comment and you are back at the top of the first page? What was the problem with the orginal design?
The bottom line is this: I have family members
who can't get health care because of pre-existing
conditions. They need health care,public or private. No,the emergency room is not health care.
Typical republican. "Waaaaahhh! Liberals are mean and call me names!" then turns around and calls liberals "crazy" "radical" and terms liberalism as a mental disorder.
Hypocrite.
The point, which you missed pbim, was that your simpleton way of determining how the cost of health care would effect the average family was flawed. The amount we spend on health care is not being debated. How you did your math is being debated. And how you did your math is wrong.
I am rubber..
You are glue..
Whatever you say..
Bounces off me and stickes to you!
Yes, ksand99 loves single personal samples over profession studies by experts or government agencies.
That makes perfect sense and does not surprise me one bit.
If you want your comments to display on page...then one way of doing that is to go into Internet options and disable Javascript.
http://www.mistered.us/tips/javascript/b...
There is a script that hides the comments and displays a next or prev button to unhide and hide comments.
pmmart:
Public option means that healthcare will be paid in part by tax dollars. When we get our paycheck every month, a portion goes to medicare, a similar thing will happen with the public plan. Believe me, the public option will mean healthcare will be the same for all. And it will not cost that much more for us tax payers. Some people get scared at the cost of the whole thing: 1 trillion over 10 years, but the fact is that if we rolled back Bush's tax cuts --those that allowed the richest in our nation to secure extra cash so they can buy an extra BMW for their kid, or an extra Lexus for their wives--the government would be saving... ready?? 1.7 trillion over the same period of time. If we end the war in Iraq we will be saving 687 billion a year. Those, combined, sum up to ebough money to make healthcare the way it is in other developed countries. No premiums, no copays, no life-time limits. Unfortunately I don't think it's going to get to that immediately, for the public option is meant to create competition for the private insurers, for now. So there will certainly be premiums. The premiums of the public option will be significantly LOWER because they will not include PROFITS. When you pay your private insurance premiums you are putting a lot of money into the pockets of those who run the insurance companies. The Public option will not be the ideal, but it will be a good start. I will repeat what I have said elsewhere: it is IMMORAL to profit from people's illnesses, and that's exactly what's going on in this country, and that needs to stop.
Morgen, you state: "Believe me, the public option will mean healthcare will be the same for all."
and
"The Public option will not be the ideal, but it will be a good start.
After all the Bull is removed, you have no facts to support you statement and you want a single payer system. That is all...
thanks for the tip
Thanks, Sergio... But I am not too sure I want to know the answer to everything about politics and why things are the way they are. I would probably end up in a cage next to the Birdie. And that's a thought that I just cant cope with at this time. But it might be better then being in a cage between Reid and Pelosi.
Col Oliver North, USMC and FAUX News contributor, is banned from entering Costa Rica due to allegations of his drug smuggling operations through that country in order to provide money for the Nicaraguan Contras.
PUBLIC OPTION, ALLELUIA, YES, PUBLIC OPTION IS THE ANSWER!
When I feel puny and sickly, I use Chicken soup. preferably Campbells
You have the public option already. Its called MEDICARE. Unfortunately, its ridden with corruption, overcharges, mismanagment, and to boot- ITS BANKRUPT ALREADY.
What gives people the idea that Government can run ANY business? Its amazing that people even consider government run proposals. Look at Amtrak, the Post Office, even the Military. They are all filled with corruption, mismanagement, cost over-runs, and ignorance of customer requirements.
Why would an expanded Medicare, which is what the so called 'public option' is, all of a sudden be run efficiently and solve the medical care problem?
All the public option will do is secure votes for politicians who can say that they 'gave you medical care'. The problem is how is this going to be paid for. When I see more people included, I see costs RISE, not fall.
This is just illogical to think that costs will fall so as to include all the people who are not insured.