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twitterLetter to the editor:
‘Personhood’: Where will it begin, end?
Wednesday, Oct. 28, 2009 | 2:02 a.m.
Las Vegas Sun reporter David McGrath Schwartz, in his Monday story about a proposed ballot initiative, wrote that the Personhood Nevada Petition “would change the state constitution to define a ‘person’ as anyone possessing a human genome, from the beginning of his biological development. It would ensure due process for all such persons.”
Mr. Ziser’s “personhood” ballot measure would have far greater consequences than its unstated anti-abortion aims. Think about it: Any adult-only venue (casinos, bars, nightclubs, theaters showing R-rated movies, etc.) would have to be shut down.
No woman of child-bearing age would be permitted into any of these venues unless she received a negative pregnancy test at the door. Otherwise, she might be bringing an underage “person” into a place where he is not permitted.
If any casino, bar or nightclub permitted these underage “persons” into their properties, they would lose their gaming permits, licenses, etc.
Just think of a gentleman’s club with only 40-ish or 50-ish pole dancers (past child-bearing years), only male cocktail servers at casinos, and men only at the hot spot nightclubs.
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"Just think of a gentleman's club with only 40-ish or 50-ish pole dancers"
Where we can start is Harry Reid needs to allow an admendment to prevent pay for Abortions in his health insurance bill being worked behind his closed office door.
How many abortions could be paid for if retrieved the $1 billion that Neil Bush stole from American citizens? When Jesse James robbed Americans, he used a gun. Without a shot being fired, Neil and posse robbed Denver's Silverado Bank. His partners in crime were GHWB, Clinton, and Obama. GHWB, Obama, Clinton, and GOP = BFF!These bipartisan "beaves" all cut and ran from prosecuting and jailing Neil.
Obama has really "Tom'ed" Black folks. Neil didn't pay any income taxes on his loot. Rapper Method Man owes $33K in back taxes and Obama-Holder just arrested him. Ditto for Boy George. He jailed and prosecuted R&B singer Ron Isley and actor Wesley Snipes because they owed back income taxes. OoopsY! Obama and Holder recently too $5 million of Floyd Mayweather's $10 millon purse. this isn't C-H-A-NG-E! Its just mo' plantation justice, only this time its being administered this time by a Black MALE. 7/4/1976, Richard Pryor, "today we are celebrating 200 years of the white-man, kick'n-a$$".
No, Future, we do not. We need more abortions, not fewer. We need way, way fewer kids being born to parents who cannot afford to care for them. That means more birth control first, of course. But when that fails, we need teenagers and those who cannot afford their kids to abort them. This country cannot keep providing for millions of people who cannot take care of their families. Aren't you one of those who complains about the "liberals" doling out money? Better to prevent poor people from having abortions, then watch the kids starve, right?
KEEP YOUR RELIGION OUT OF OUR GOVERNMENT!
I would rather that we follow in the steps of hero of the Democratic party--Tiller the Baby Killer.
He would for the lamest of reasons drill a hole in the head of baby making its way in the birth canal and seconds before it is about to take its first breaths of life.
Let's get real. The baby is the property of the mother and is her slave. The baby deserves zero due process rights. If the mother wants to drill a hole in the baby's head then it is the morther's right to do so.
But if we only knew that the baby would grow up to be a terrorist or a murder then the Democrats will fight tooth and nail for it's due process rights.
Due process....who's needs stinkin' due process.
I don't know -- they're are some pretty good looking 40-50 year olds out there...
Seriously though, a "personhood" amendment? How about we simply ban govt funding for abortions in the short term, then work to provide a variety of alternatives to it? I'd prefer funding contraceptives in the high schools & bars + adoption/foster programs over the continued slaughter of the innocent.
As for those who believe that "we need teenagers and those who cannot afford their kids to abort them. This country cannot keep providing for millions of people who cannot take care of their families", there are plenty of adult indigents on the streets of America sucking up taxpayer dollars -- maybe you think they should be "aborted" as well?
lcdrmandingonamvet,
Your post reminded me of an article I read just recently. Here is the link and the lead paragraph...
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/5595...
Abortion Kills More Black Americans Than the Seven Leading Causes of Death Combined, Says CDC Data
Friday, October 23, 2009
By Karen Schuberg
Dr. Freda Bush spoke recently at an event in Washington, D.C. to recognize the work done by Pregnancy Resource Centers to help women who face unplanned pregnancy. She said that abortion kills more African Americans than many of the most deadly diseases blamed for killing blacks each year combined. (CNSNews.com/Penny Starr)
(CNSNews.com) -- Abortion kills more black Americans than the seven leading causes of death combined, according to data collected by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for 2005, the latest year for which the abortion numbers are available.
Abortions would be greatly reduced if the morning-after pill was sold over the counter. But I'm sure the overpopulation-blind bible-thumpers consider the pill as "drilling a hole in the head of a genome".
Would it not be better if the argument was framed as:
What circumstances can be considered justifiable homicide?
Then the question of when a human egg and sperm becomes human simply goes away.
OpenRange,
No, abortion would actually be increased if the morning-after pill was sold over the counter. Presumably you mean that the morning-after pill would actually be used by women not just sold to them. By the way, the morning-after pill is just a higher dose, usually just 4 to 8 times the usual dose, of the common birth control pill and although that is not sold over the counter no ones denies that there is easy access to the birth control pill in our society. And if the birth control pill is used as the morning-after pill, then it acts as a chemical abortifacient, meaning that an abortion takes place, ergo, it would NOT reduce the number of abortions.
ps. to gunowners4obama:
Yes, starting with yo mama!
Every cell in your body carries the full human genome. Therefore every cell is a person. Whenever you scratch yourself you're killing thousands of people. What a preposterous idea.
syfredrick,
You said, "Every cell in your body carries the full human genome, Therefore every cell is a person." That is a preposterous idea, but it an idea created only by yourself.
The initiative and the article says something quite different..."would change the state constitution to define a 'person' as anyone possessing a human genome, from the beginning of his biological development. It would ensure due process for all such persons."
...In other words, a person may contain only one cell, ie. like at the moment of conception, or many billions of cells, like you and I. And all persons should be ensured due process.
enteaser,
Sounds like circular reasoning to me. Once a cell becomes disconnected from me, then it becomes a person. Well I'm leaving persons all over the toilet.
syfredrick,
You said, "Once a cell becomes disconnected from me, then it becomes a person."
No one else in their right mind is saying that. You are one person; you are composed of many, many billions of cells. Please address what the article and the initiative is saying, not the stupid ridiculous things you are saying.
The joining of a sperm cell to an egg cell results in a single cell. That cell joins itself to the mother (unless it was created in vitro), before it multiplies, and fits the wording in the proposed legislation. So, in fact does every one of her hairs and fingernails. Every blood cell also fits the wording. The dentist who pulls, or even cleans my teeth would be a murderer.
But of course they really want to restrict it to the zygote. Would freezing one make you a kidnapper? Would unfreezing any of the tens of thousands of unused ones presently at minus 321 Fahrenheit be a crime unless cared for and nurtured?
This is just plain stupid. I really didn't think I made humans this dumb. I'm sorry.
My apologies to syfredrick, only you and wordofgod are saying that, but then it doesn't appear like either of you is in his right mind.
This reminds me of Glenn Beck's new book, "Arguing with Idiots", but here goes anyway. Here's the wording from the article and the proposed initiative......"would change the state constitution to define a 'person' as anyone possessing a human genome, from the beginning of his biological development. It would ensure due process for all such persons."
That wording does not say that an individual hair or blood cell is a person; and repeatedly saying it does not make it so!
lemahj -- you wish it would just go away.
enteaser -- your threshold premise is hilarious. Just because you think more here agree with you than your opponent doesn't make ANYTHING right. It just means you have a mob mentality.
The basics here are always the same -- majority tyranny dictating to individuals they choices they're at liberty to make without you. Roe v. Wade wasn't about abortions, it was about how Constitutions limit government from interfering with private decisions.
Unless you have a womb, or your seed is gestating in one, your opinion is just irrelevant.
And if your opinion is based on anything religious, it's not even worth considering in any reasonable discussion.
Regarding Ziser, this entire proposal would be laughable if its supporters weren't so earnest AND numerous. They will have to be smacked down before there's another stupid Section added to Article I.
What an idiotic article. Clearly separate laws would have to be passed and enforced to make it illegal for pregnant women to enter adult-only establishments. You can what-if all day, with the most ridiculous scenarios, and it only makes you look foolish. Debate the issue with science and reason, not idiotic hypotheticals about old strippers.
Besides, if babies in the womb are people - and science tell us they are - who cares what the consequences of protecting them are? If we are inconvenienced, yet 1.5 million children are spared a cruel and painful death each year, I'm all for dealing with the inconveniences.
B,
My threshold premise? And what would that B?
Jennifer,
The article is fine, it's the comments that include the idiotic.
Oh, sorry Jen, I meant the initiative is fine, it is indeed the article that starts the idiocy here and it doesn't take much to get the resident idiots here to chime right along.
To enteaser and Jennifer658..........
Sorry I hold the Buddist belief that the soul does not enter the body until its born. God doesn't put the finishing touch on til the baby is born.
Therefore abortion is not murder.
So please don't push you relegious beliefs on others. Against abortion then don't have one, and also mind your own business.
NativeIdiot,
No need to be sorry, you can believe anything you want, but just believing does not make it right.
The sad truth is that you don't even realize how stupid you are...there's no "i" in Nevadan, there's an "h" in Buddhist, and I never stated, let alone pushed, my religious beliefs. And of course abortion is not murder, because murder is the unlawful killing of a person, and the Supreme Court has legislated, however inappropriately and unconstitutionally, from the bench that abortion is lawful.
"...you can believe anything you want, but just believing does not make it right."
enteaser -- you just hold on to that. Your ignorance is evidently superior to others here.
NativeNevadIan -- your opinion makes more sense here than enteaser & Jennifer. And it's delivered without their snobbish rancor.
"...how little does the common herd know of the nature of right and truth." - Socrates quoted in Plato's "Euthyphro" (399 B.C.E.?)
Hey enteaser......
I specifically spell Nevadian with an I.......it can be spelled both ways......look it up......
and the buddhist was a typo..........
and NO ONE CAN PROVE WHEN THE SOUL ENTERS THE BODY! so believe anything you want, but don't force your beliefs on me and others......
against abortion DON'T HAVE ONE!!
KillerB.......
Thanks for the support........
:)
NativeNevadian -- venturing into the realm of the spiritual, metaphysical and morality are NOT the proper jurisdiction of government. It violates Constitutional promises of freedom of religion and conscience. This proposal is just one faction's attempt to get around that. They would be imposing their version of morality, &c., not only into law but the source code of all Nevada law.
But as Nevada discovered in 2002 that won't stop them from doing it. As Nietzsche said, morality is really just the herd's way of controlling its members. If this "personhood" prevails that control would extend to all of us.
KB,
Why bother responding to me when you don't answer my question? I'll repeat...
"My threshold premise? And what would that B?"
...and now you accuse me of ignorance? Well, I've made 5 comments in this thread, surely you could identify some "ignorant" comment that I made, but you don't...so that makes you the ignorant one!