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Tuesday, Oct. 27, 2009 | 2 a.m.
Beyond the Sun
Jose Silva had just obtained an appointment in three weeks to see whether his family would be eligible for monthly welfare benefits.
“Now I just have to not eat until then,” he joked, standing with his wife on the sidewalk outside the state office on Flamingo Road.
Silva has been without a steady job for a year, one of tens of thousands of workers still reeling from the bottom dropping out of the Las Vegas Valley’s construction industry, the region’s second-largest employer after tourism.
If approved for assistance, the Silvas will belong to the fastest-growing category of families in the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program. Bearing the confusing government label of “non-qualified non-citizens,” this category refers to families with parents who are not U.S. citizens and children who are.
Since the recession began in late 2007, the average monthly caseload of these families has grown 96 percent, according to state records. About 4,250 of these families of mixed immigration status were on the program’s rolls in September, making it the second-largest category in TANF, after single-parent households.
It is also the only category in the program where parents apply in their children’s name, as opposed to applying in their own. TANF gives monthly checks to the families based on income and the children’s status as citizens and does not require parents to demonstrate that they are in the United States legally.
No one has studied the phenomenon, but Christie D. Batson, an assistant professor of sociology at UNLV who has researched immigrant families, figures the exploding numbers may have at least two causes. Children of immigrants have long been one of the demographic groups getting the least amount of social services, despite showing great need, Batson said. This is because illegal immigrant parents often don’t know about the benefits, or are afraid they could be deported if they seek them.
“But in the past few years there has been a push to better inform these parents, by social service agencies and nonprofits,” Batson said.
So the numbers could be a result of more immigrant families finding out about social service programs, she said.
Also, Batson said, “there has got to be a correlation between the economy and benefits.”
Gary Stagliano, deputy administrator of the state’s Welfare and Supportive Services Division, said many of the families joining the agency’s rolls may have had one or both parents laid off in the services or construction industries.
The Washington, D.C.-based Economic Policy Institute estimated the unemployment rate among Hispanics in Nevada at 16.4 percent for this year’s second quarter, the most recent period available. The state’s overall unemployment rate was 11.3 percent at the time. It is now 13.3 percent.
In another reflection of the withering economy, the number of households with two parents seeking TANF has also exploded. Enrollment under that category has increased 69 percent since late 2007.
Stagliano said this increase may show how the loss of one or two jobs has dropped many families from the middle class in recent months. Many are applying for welfare benefits for the first time. And contrary to historical patterns, many don’t need training to obtain a new job.
“They are not without skills, education or experience,” Stagliano said. “It’s just that there are no jobs.”
Stagliano said that of the immigrant families report some income, meaning one or both of the parents are not “completely unemployed.”
Batson said Hispanic immigrants in particular “place a cultural importance on work,” adding, “There is a predisposition that work is important, and they don’t tend to stay out of work for a long time.”
Jose Silva said he had worked in construction for 11 years in Las Vegas and was seeking help with paying bills for the first time, after his workload dropped from a few days a week to nothing this summer. His family had dropped all unnecessary expenses, including cable television, cell phones and eating out. But walking into the welfare office wasn’t easy, he said.
“It was weird coming here because I’ve never asked for anything,” he said. But he also said he had paid taxes and had Social Security deductions taken out of his paycheck. “I’ve worked a long time and I deserve something back.”
Stagliano is aware of the controversy surrounding families like the Silvas, centering on that very issue of whether they deserve public benefits.
“We have people writing in, saying we shouldn’t supply this service,” he said.
But that’s not his call.
“We have to go by rules established by the federal government,” he said. “Only they can change those rules.”
i love get drunk and make da babies, den i go on da welfare.
now i'am a victim,,,,,,,,you must feel sorry for me, my friends.
i'am a victim,,,,,,cuz i hv so many babies
blame that cult, the catholic church for promoting so many children. and blame these corporate ceo's for the flood of illegals.
"It was weird coming here because I've never asked for anything," he said. But he also said he had paid taxes and had Social Security deductions taken out of his paycheck. "I've worked a long time and I deserve something back."
EMVANCE
Jose Silva Identity Theft for your your SSN card that is the only way you can pay tax's. I am getting feed up with illegals saying but I but I payed my tax's NO what you have done is payed someone one for the their Identity leave this Country and put in the paper work to get llegal then all is yours ...Only tell Then
vote democrat = hate america.
Yes sir, you do deserve something back. You deserve deportation to your home country and to have your children stripped from you since you obviously are not capable of providing support for them.
and yet, us true americans get turned down for any assistance IF we show we can work or pay our way..might not be any jobs, but if we change our name to Gomez, we'll get to the front of the line@!! way to go America!!
Fromervegas76 is exactly correct. Blame the catholic church for promoting over population and too many children. If there were less people in mexico they wouldn't come here looking for jobs.
Also blame the corporations because they bust unioins and hire illegal workers just to make more profit for rich people.
It is the corporation and rich people who are destroying this country for the rest of us. They don't care, they have all the money and job.
If your here illegally the only thing you should get from taxpayers is a bus(or boat)ride home.
If we quit rewarding illegal aliens with jobs, free legal and medical access and the bevy of taxpayer related assistance, they will leave. If you keep feeding the stray dog, he will never leave.
The Catholic Church and rich people as culprits here? Sounds about right. Then there are the politicians who refuse to enforce border law, for cheap labor and for future votes from those who want more social services. But I don't blame people who come here looking for a better life. Our country makes it so much easier to get ahead than in Mexico, so of course this will keep happening.
Harry Reid is a very sick man. Those who believe in him are sicker
The taxpayers should just go on a taxpayer revolt! NO MORE TAX DOLLARS SHOULD BE PAYED TO THE CORRUPT GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS FROM US HARDWORKING LEGAL AMERICAN CITIZENS UNTIL IT STOPS FLOWING TO THE ILLEGALS!!!!
Anyone in favor of humanity? Compassion? Empathy? Understanding?
I thought not. Go on with your hate fest.
This is what gets me when the illegal alien enablers claim illegals can't get government assistance like welfare. Sure they can, they just show up with their anchor babies and presto, the check is in the mail.
mschaffer
A billion Americans, maybe more, can't be wrong. I guess you never needed assistance WITH ANYTHING because my guess is if you did - you'd get turned down pronto and the illegals in line after you would get your share and then some.
Americans ARE a compassionate and understanding group of people - but do NOT take advantage of us and the systems we PAY for but yet get turned down when we need this system the most. Ask those who are applying for help because of job loss (yes, LEGAL CITIZENS) and listen to THEIR stories.
Let's hope you never need that extra food to feed your family, or extra clothes because you have no money to buy anything....because chances are you're not going to get ANY of it because you are an American citizen.
I know that it takes a ton of red tape for a legal family to get on welfare. I wonder if it is the same for the illegal families.
No one should get welfare. No one. Doesn't bother me if they are undocumneted or not. Either way we need to stop giving checks to people to have kids and not contribute.
Dispicable!!! Just Dispicable!!!
What's next?
Well, isn't that nice? Crap out an anchor baby and there's your golden ticket! Since these people are willing to work for slave wages, I'm sure whatever "taxes" Senor Silva and the rest of his merry band of illegals pay doesnt even COME CLOSE to the amount they take in in social services, WHICH INCLUDES the biggest government freebie of all-their kids' public education-that WE must pay for, all while they deprive YOUR AMERICAN children of a decent education by flooding the classroom and lowering standards.
How about the hatefest these illegals engage in by ruining OUR overall quality of life in Clark County by refusing to abide by our immigration laws in the first place?
How about the hatefest brought on by these illegals that engage in identity theft, gang membership, and the destruction of what were once decent AMERICAN working class neighborhoods that are
now basically barrios?
How about the hatefest brought on by these illegals that not only destroy our language, our culture
and our borders, but REFUSE to even PRETEND to assimilate, what with their foreign language radio and tv stations, billboards, magazines, greeting cards, refusing to speak English in public, and just in case we Americans didn't get the message about their contempt for this country the first time around-those nine foot bumper stickers on their truck, to remove any doubt about the origin of their TRUE LOYALTY.
Here's a newsflash for you: The United States is NOT an international flophouse.
But go ahead-vote for Harry Reid in 2010, so he can help ram through amnesty for 20 million impoverished illiterates, in accordance with Dear Leader's plans.
This is so wrong and Harry Reid just lost my vote after this article. There were cuts to programs for foster children, education, and more, but ILLEGALS are getting some of our tax money?! That is so wrong.
rejco, maybe they can't tell them to get a job, but they can tell them to go back to Mexico!
Go back to your home country and stop coming to America looking for a handout. Lazy.
mschaffer wrote:"Anyone in favor of humanity? Compassion? Empathy? Understanding?
I thought not. Go on with your hate fest."
-----------
Oh, please. What about "compassion" for the Americans who were out of work while this guy had a job? For the American whose SSN he stole?
And how about "compassion" for the Americans who were no doubt stuck paying for the birth of his children and are now stuck paying for their upkeep? Or does he have no personal responsibility at all for bringing children into the world that he can't afford and knowing that he (and probably his wife) are breaking multiple laws and are deportable?
It's interesting to see the comments here. It's unfortunate the Sun writer did not have time to find experts who could explain the big picture: politically, historically, and sociologically. As usual, I expected there to be some scapegoating of those with less power. That's Vegas for you. But there was also concern about other factors: the Catholic Church and US employers, for example. Clearly this an international problem, centuries long, with many players and at least two major ideologies (neoliberal economics and Catholicism). So what's the plan to make it any better?
This country will save more money by investing on one way tickets for illegals back to their old country. They can take their anchor babies with them and allow them back only when they turn 18 and can work for a living. They can sequester what ever property they have, sell them, and use the money to buy rheir tickets. These anchor babies can petition their parents legally like evryone else. But one of the problems is that our politicians are too weak to enforce our immigration laws.
Whoever is arguing that we should have compassion, there just simply is not enough money to have compassion for everything and everyone, so we need to prioritize to help our own citizens first. We are not currently helping all of our citizens as much as needed in foster cares, mental institutions, education, health care for citizens, and more. So helping ILLEGALS that are breaking the law is shameful.
This is one of the main reasons we are LEAVING LAS VEGAS!
We moved here about 4 years ago, both my husband and I are professionals and pay our taxes. I am sick and tired of seeing my tax money go to these criminals for doing NOTHING but crapping out kids.
And this crap of hearing how they work so hard, and do jobs Americans won't do. That is BS! I worked the fields when I was a teenager, and I'll tell you it was not even close to being as hard as what I do now. {Registered Nurse} Having no one to answer to, come and go as you please, and standing on a street corner for hours out of the day, and collecting welfare isn't hard work. My husband is a journeyman plumber and worked the big projects here. He would come home so irritated most days because his "hard working" immigrant co-workers would stand around most of the day and watch the other guys do all the work. Next time your in a hotel, watch the immigrant housekeepers. They spend most of the day standing outside your room, gossiping rather than working. That's why you can't check in until 4pm, it takes them that long to vacuum and make a bed!
I completely agree rwal2222
It's interesting to see when a working-class person (i.e. an RN with a plumber husband) cannot see herself, or the others she derides, as working class. RWAL2222, I agree that nursing is difficult work, but the pay is relatively fair in this town. Good luck in your work and your husband's work elsewhere. Just remember that work would more difficult (and less lucrative) without unions. Just wondering RWAL2222 and Appleslices: how much would you take to make beds all day?
If this upsets you, take this tax impact times 10 if a "Public Option" healthcare plan is passed.
America land of the free, home of the brave, and incubator of the social parasite.
: )
Let them all in , UFO Aliens, Terrorists, Illegals, Whats the difference? your either gonna get anal probed, blown up, or pay higher taxes and then lose your job !!! Thanks Bush who encouraged illegal immigration, pissed off the terrorists, and likes anal probing.
To the formervegas76 idiot who is characterizing catholics as poor mexicans, i believe its the mormons who believe in having many kids. They typically just dont have a high majority of mexicans in the church.
I don't agree with all these illegals being given benefits but I'm more scared of rwal2222 working as a registered nurse. For a nurse with enormous hates against immigrants is a lot more dangerous because there are high percentage of immigrant patients in any of our hospitals. Some of her negative observations are unbelievable and magnified and if you believe all what she said, I'll sell you the Hoover dam. I know a little bit about nursing career because I'm married to a nurse so if rwal2222 wants to leave Vegas, I will hold the door open for her.
"More welfare going to parents here illegally"
That headline is worthy of the front page, I'm also willing to say, that headline is worth "a nickel and a bottle of Imodium".
I am tired of the sensationalism that fans the flames of hate about non-truths; there aren't any programs that are giving welfare to illegal parents. That money is going to American children, 100 percent US citizens. Stop the lies! Quit the fear mongering!
The law is the law, if you don't want people to gain American citizenship by merely being born in America change the law, until then, those children are every bit as much entitled to government support as any other American WASP child in America. The old ways of disenfranchising uneducated minority citizens in America has changed.
Change the law, make it retroactive, and force all prior, 1778' non US citizen parents (legal or otherwise) that had children in America loose their birth citizenship. Make them have to submit to the bureaucratic night-mare of becoming a citizen, better yet, abolish birth citizenship altogether, make everyone earn it, by either serving in our armed forces or paying a "cool million" for the privilege.
No more anchor-babies, that term is so condescending to the American spirit, least you forget the constitution.
That chain-reaction would reach back centuries, there would be many people wondering the streets of America instantly without a country, unable to vote, unable to work, unable to survive; I like it! The few of us who have earned it already would be catapulted on to easy street, and all you whiners who just cry about not having things your way (nothing to do with the laws or constitution of America) can find another place to colonize.
I don't like the fact that my government supports many programs, sending monies to foreign nations I don't agree with, but I do what I can to vote and be informed, but most of all, I strip the paper mashie fear from the face of the lies being spread in the feed lots by ethnocentrism.
HELP STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.......MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD: http://www.numbersusa.com/content/
Mschaffer : It sure looks like you are a lone opinion here in America, going back home anytime soon?
i hope st peter at the gates of heaven judges us by our humanity and kindness, especially the humanity and kindness shown in anonymous comments like these. God knows (literally) what would happen to you.
bbkld5, I wouldn't break the law and collect welfare from another country. It is your illegal friends that you want to stick up for that are going to be judged.
personally, if an R.N. doesn't like ILLEGAL ALIENS, so be it. their health care shouldn't have any extra frills as if they are ever going to pay for the services they receive.
I happen to agree with E-Verify.
That said, there are some ugly, ugly people in the room.
"...there are some ugly, ugly people in the room."
Hey, I resemble that remark!
check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ScYY__o...
If you live in a neighborhood and have a community garden, does this give someone from another neighborhood (with no garden of their own) the right to come over and pick your tomatoes? furthermore does he have the right to sue you if he falls and hurts himself while stealing your tomatoes? Jus'sayin...
They spend most of the day standing outside your room, gossiping rather than working. That's why you can't check in until 4pm, it takes them that long to vacuum and make a bed!
I'm not siding with any of the illegals, however - I cannot even IMAGINE what they do come across in a lot of the hotel rooms on the Strip!! And the messes they have to clean up...and then some. It is more than "vacuuming and making beds". My guess is if they were making $20 an hour, it wouldn't be enough! People are pigs, especially women. Go check out ANY ladies' room anywhere and they are usually pig sties.
I had a neighbor who did this while waiting for her NV teaching credentials. She said you would NOT believe the messes she had to clean up in the rooms and she was assigned to the "suite and penthouse" floors in the high end property she worked at on the Strip. And she was making "decent" money but not enough to deal with what she had to deal with. She was glad she didn't have to do it as a permanent job.
bbkid5
This issue has NOTHING to do with compassion and meeting up with St. Peter at the Gate! It is about OUR OWN CITIZENS GOING WITHOUT while people here ILLEGALLY, ie breaking the law, get it all. Don't you crazy*** liberals understand this????? I guess you can afford your own health care, tons of food on the table for your family, be able to shop at Nordstrom's intead of Salvation Army and Savers, get all the free inhome care for elderly parents and THEIR needs and the list goes on to be talking like that. You wouldn't be so compassionate if YOU were the one needing any of the above services and the illegal family across the street gets it all and drives an 2009 Escalade to boot!!!
Interesting story not quite related to this, but close:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/27/ille...
THIS is a HUGE part of the problem we have here in this country re illegals. GET the employers FIRST and then deport the rest!!!
illegal + illegal = legal. Only in America!!
I knew our education system was in trouble.
Someone coming to this country by illegal means should NEVER be a legal citizen. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER. (Did I say never?)
I have had to do I-130's, I-864's, and on and on of paperwork and expense and time, 4 years for my wife alone, based on rules and laws that assume I am committing marriage fraud.
So, I don't "hate" people because they come from another country. I "hate" that they commit a crime and then are rewarded for that crime.
To these illegals ..... GO HOME!!! Take your anchor baby with you. Make your Home Country a better place to live and let my country recover from your blight.
It took 4 years just to get my spouse into the country. It took almost 10 years total for her to become a citizen. How many years must pass before there has been no marriage fraud committed?
The system is crap, I would agree, but, the law is the law. In a law based society, you don't break the law and then try to change it. If there is an unfair or bad law, you work to change it to where it is fair and equitable.
Offering citizenship or giving public assistance to law breakers is rewarding the wrong type of behaviour.
The fact that they are here illegally opens them up to all kinds of abuse from employers (which in turn lowers our standard of living)and even more abuse by people from their same country who are legal or are citizens.
I agree that the law must be followed. Illegals should not be allowed to work, period. But how best to resolve this problem? Do we have INS run from end of the city to the other running them down, or do we effectively utilize limited resources to the workplace where the hiring occurs? Also consider that now that there are a legal individuals - the children - how is this resolved legally? Although I understand the emotional comments made here it doesn't take us any closer to a solution. Also consider that illegals have more than likely have debts to American businesses if they purchased automobiles and other items requiring payments. If illegals are escorted out of the country, what is the financial impact to businesses? It will be interesting to see if miraculously illegals went home how those vacant jobs will be filled. Employers will have to offer higher pay, health insurance, unemployment insurance, etc.. etc. These added costs may be enough to some businesses out of businesses. I suppose that certain businesses that relied on illegal labor to survive do not deserve to exist at any rate.
Although I do agree that illegals should not be working in our country, I am not convinced that they are not a net benefit to our economy. All of the services where they work would be more expensive to Americans and those savings go directly into our pockets. Illegals tend to be younger so they are not the ones who are a burden to our health system. While there are some bad people among them, they are no worse than our fellow Americans. After all, as illegals they have to fly under the radar as much as possible.
Anchor babies shouldn't even exist. If the parents are illegal and they have a child here, that child should also be considered illegal. No child of an illegal alien deserves citizenship just because their law-breaking came here and popped them out. They need to earn their citizenship just like everyone who has to apply. I will not be voting for any candidate in favor of amnesty. Send them all back and then see how many resources are freed up for actual American citizens.
I agree with kvg2009
As long as the democraps run this country,we will continue to open our doors and except anyone,and offer all we have with open arms!Now if you are a natural born citizen,your at the end of the line!And by the way,leave your ss# at the door.They need a reason to scream about how they have paid their taxes,with your ss#!!!
You must remove the "reward" for the illegal behaviour. (or at least lack of punishment) No citizenship, NEVER.! End of story.
First plug the hole in the dam, before you start to pump out the water.
Allow those that are already here to stay,(if they want) give them work Visas (after paying filing, attorney fees, $$) that will never, ever, never become a pathway to citizenship.!
The fact that they will never become citizens makes it impossible for them to get preferred immigration status for any of their relatives.
Clarify the "law" that is allowing the anchor baby loophole to exist and close the loophole. ASAP. No use crying over spilt milk, but by all means pick of the carton before it is completely empty!
If this were to happen, in 18 years our anchor baby child support payments would be over!!! They are here, make sure they are educated properly and that they become responsible citizens.
Yes, 18 years is a long time, but anyone who has gotten a divorce or fathered a child out of wedlock in the USA knows all about child support.
Send a clear message to would be law breakers, you will never be citizens and from this day forward, a foreign born, non-US citizen, having a baby in the US does not make this child a US citizen.
Your lawmakers cannot argue against enforcement of the law, if they do, they have broken their oath of office.
Democraps and Recrumblicans alike have failed to enforce the intent of the law. Recrumblicans actually rewarded them with amnesty. What a hoax!! The flood gates were open after that.
I am against people who break the law or those won't enforce the law.
our country is mired in recession and our tax dollars are going to people who aren't even citizens. i agree with kvg2009, too.
But he also said he had paid taxes and had Social Security deductions taken out of his paycheck. "I've worked a long time and I deserve something back."
This is the cost of doing business in the US. Don't like it?
This guy is not a citizen and as such has no rights in our society, his offspring is the one getting the benefit.
One word.
Pimp.
These types of people and all the social workers along with them.
It's child exploitation and abuse, plain and simple.
The only solution is to return the 14th amendment to it's proper interpretation. The "anchor baby" interpretation incentivies foreigners to enter the country and have children while hardworking taxpayers must subsidize the healthcare, welfare and education of the family via the newly crowned "American" child. We can't even take care of our own citizens. What other country does this?
Overpopulation in poor Catholic countries has always been and will always be an exploitation of the sanctity of life. These same cultures do not use birth control because of the belief that to deny the manly need to impregnate is a sin and their souls will burn in hell. The belief is a numbing of the senses by the Church and the brothers and sisters of the Church. Hell is here on earth in the countries that have been saved from the ethereal hell and savagery of sinners. Hell is the poverty that children are raised in. Hell is the lack of sustainable water to drink. Hell is the barrios and the garbage that children sift through on a daily basis. Hell is the teen who has run away from an abusive home and is caught in the web of pimps.
Communism has been suggested by many of what our country is turning to. If you would like to know the truth about Communism first hand from a American-Italian mans personal story of how he learned the hard way go read it at www.sgovio.com.
Why is it we know so much about the Holocaust and so little about what happened in the Russian Concentration Camps?
Sergio
Don't be so stupid. The illegals in this country have a better system at cheating the government than anyone! They know how to work the system big time. They have their own little "underground" system that they use composed of relatives and friends already here, legally or illegally. They can get just about anything from this "underground" - from fake social security numbers to getting driver's licenses WITH pictures and I'm sure mortgages, car loans etc. Don't kid yourself - these people KNOW what they are doing and have for years now, which just from this article is obvious.
STARBEAMS
A LOT of Hispanics do not even belong to the Catholic Church any longer. They have their own Christian churches and there are many in Las Vegas.
Also - The Church of Rome KNOWS it has lost many members because of their old fashioned stance regarding birth control. No matter how much the old guy in the Vatican tries to preach otherwise - most turn a deaf ear on his old fashioned views on how Catholics should live their lives.
strut
Exactly right. Close the loophole. No other country allows this. Our leaders are pimping these children and children of divorce to justify their jobs and budgets. What a joke.
If Jose, or any other illegal parent, male or female, had a daughter and started prostituting her out as a teen, we would be shocked. But, the attitude and action is equal to this except that they have not crossed some "morality" barrier. Call it what you will, this child was born for one reason only, to provide citizenship in the future. That is exploitation. Can anyone really expect this type of child to grow up respecting the rule of law that our society is based on?
Take these citizen children away from their law-breaking, abusive parents and put them in Foster care.
The only question remaining is: What are we, as a society, prepared to accept as far as illegal activity is concerned?
Let the parents come forward for sterilization first. Benefits second.
Don't want to play? Then don't. It's your choice.
China has reversible birth control called a "metal circle". We can offer that to illegals as well as welfare mothers and mothers of divorce before handing out benefits.
The process can be reversed as soon as they fill out an I-864, Affidavit of Support, and have it approved. No monthly cost, no hormones, no side effects and 90% effective. Where is that option in the US? In my opinion, these groups have all lost their "right" to reproduce, the second they asked for any public service. (Just so everyone understands, all children of divorce are wards of the State, parents are only allowed to retain custody. So each child of divorce costs taxpayer money.)
Don't want to play? Then don't. It's your choice.
No money in a solution only in controversy.
I have just accepted a position with Health and Human Services (Welfare division). Rest assured that the bigotry and bile spewed here wont effect my work to help people in need. I grew up here in Las Vegas and for some reason it still astonishes me how much people hate. Look, the federal govt. wants those in need to get food stamps, help with rent and utilities. Its not only for illegals but for the disabled, and elderly. Most of the programs can only be drawn on for five years and then thats it. You can't even go to another state and sign up for prior benefits. So in effect there is no more "generational welfare". There are a lot of people out there in need, legal and otherwise and our govt. must be there to help. Remember, "Nothing is promised today". You could be going through those welfare doors tomorrow.
Yep, and California had a "3 strikes you're out" law until the prison population overwhelmed the ability for the taxpayers to support it. The law hasn't been overturned but it has been retooled.
LV4LIFE - Would you leave these children with child molesters and murderers? Illegal, look it up!
You actually answered the next question I was going to ask which was about how many of the posters on this site are recieving a full time, 4 Life, Gubment paycheck.
The Federal Government wants to justify hiring more people and increasing their budgets.
I lived in a County in another state at the end of the 90's. State Labor statistics showed that 66.6% (it is after all a "human" number) of the population was employed by the government, be it local, county, state, etc. Any job which is funded through taxes is a Gubment job.
This means that for every 1 private sector job, there were two others standing on that workers, business's neck. Picture a pyramid on its point. How long do you think that will be able to balance? The social "reset button" is about to be pressed. You cannot defy the laws of physics forever. Gravity is absolute. Wile E Coyote's law does not apply. It won't stay up, just because we don't look down.
We study history and are taught about great civilizations of the past. Anthropologists, Sociologists, Historians (most receiving a Gubment paycheck) and all manner of highly educated people put forward reasons for the end of some, but they never just come out with it and say that it became too top heavy and for others it is obvious, such as a cataclysmic event.
Reality is that you can only have so many people saying "you oughtta" do this or "you oughtta" do that. Society has to be built like a pyramid on a nice broad base.
I was on my lunch Hour in the store and waiting to check out,the lady in front of me was on welfar( did not speak english) and pick the wrong thing she could get for free(wefare) I stood in line for 10 min.and waited and waited for her to go back and get the welfar food.
If people come to the U.S. and stay and work all I ask of you is to Read, Wite and speak English.
First of all destruct, I have worked for the govt. for 10 years. As far as I know it is not a job for life. I can get fired just as you can. As for the prison population explotion it is usually due to unfair sentencing guidelines that are arbitrary. Lets not forget prison is (very) big business. This "three strikes" rule you speak of must be california's own. I am speaking federal rules which trumps state.
Wolf, most of those people come from the poorest of the poor. Where do you suggest they learn english before they come here? Especially when eating, clean water and a roof is of higher concern. Most of them learn english within a year of being in this country. Hey heres a thought...Why don't you take a spanish class and help these citizens in waiting achieve that goal? We didn't ask people coming through Ellis Island years ago to speak the language before we let them in, why start now?
This is one more problem for our country. Whatever happened to "just say NO!". We can not solve the world's problems on the backs of the American taxpayers. Where do you think the money comes from? It comes from all of us paying taxes. You can not continue to tax only the wealthy people to make up for those who pay NO tax. Social programs should only go to those who have a real need and the loafers should be MADE to get a job. We are fast becoming a country of entitlement!
All I can say to the biggots here is...What would Jesus do?
destruct_mutt:
I tend to agree with some of your reasoning, I too don't like that government programmes dole out assistance to people from all walks of life that don't fit my preffered group.
Wouldn't you agree that many people have used that angle (babies) in the past 200 years in America. Is it fair to say that 75 percent of America's current population would be included in that line of thinking, and that were the law to be as such, some of our past Presidents would have to be stiped of there citizenship too, as would all their off-spring.
I like it, I am all for stripping everyones citizenship retroactively, no more birth-right Americans. You would have to earn it and not the "old fashion way" either. That would be a fantastic platform to garner votes come the next election.
The party of non-birthers, simular to a monarky, but we "earned-citizens" would all be holding the cards to citizenship, like a "Royal Flush" and only the ones we so called "earned-citizens" would allow to apply for citizenship via government/militry service.
I would be a gazillionaire, I could have 10 slaves, I mean servants, to do all the things that are beneath me. I would be King of the world! Oh! wait, what? someone else is already, can I be Scruge? yes, but take a number, there are over a million aready served with that name,,,,,,,Thank you"
The irony of it all, lets not be a country of exclusion, but a country of inclusion.
LV4LIFe is right, What would Jesus do?
Especially for these "conservative religious" folk, they're not really Christians.
My turn to take control of this topic and manipulate it to my liking.
"This is one more problem for our country. Whatever happened to "just say NO!". We can not solve the world's problems on the backs of the American taxpayers. Where do you think the money comes from? It comes from all of us paying taxes. You can not continue to tax only the wealthy people to make up for those who pay NO tax. Social programs should only go to those who have a real need and the loafers should be MADE to get a job. We are fast becoming a country of entitlement!"
Yes, even these people who are getting welfare, pay taxes, do they not deserve it because they do not make as much as the wealthy? That's enaquality. You tax the wealthy, and they'll still be wealthy, stop complaining, maybe you won't get that nice jet.
Don't like it? Get out of our country.
The 3 strikes your out, was in reference to the five years, that's it....... until that's not it anymore, then another arbitrary number is "it".
We're giving them amnesty this one time, and that's it!! Until 10 or 12 years later when they have overwhelmed us again. So one more time again, and that's it?
Try this type of system of discipline for raising your own children and see how far you get!
Don't you do that! I'm warning you. Don't do that!! Okay don't do it again!! I mean it!!
Windbags!!!! You'll get no respect doing it that way. Positive re-enforcement is the key. Reward the correct behaviour and do not reward the wrong .... at all!! Don't make a law unless you are willing to enforce it completely.
This is exactly why other countries of the world have no respect for the US anymore. They see we are a bunch of panderers and do nothings. Desert Storm is an absolute prime example of this!!! If you are gonna start something, finish it!!! If we had, no one would have dared attack our country on 9/11.
Like I said before, we are too top heavy. There are not enough "real" jobs (private sector) to support this amount of social welfare. It's "tough love" time. Send the neighbor kids home so when we sit down for supper, there's enough for us to eat. Can you not see the tagging on the wall?
One other point; I didn't read anywhere that says Jose Silva was an illegal, did you?
Could be his wife was, but he might be a US citizen, just asking.
You mean the angels right.
Right gunslinger ... I was mislead by the bold black letters in the headline of the article as to the immigration status. Never ASSUME.
Your sarcasm of my comments has nothing to do with what I proposed. I can't use smaller or fewer words to express my opinion, so maybe you could read my comments again until you understand them.
I thought my feelings on this issue were clear when I posted:
"Clarify the "law" that is allowing the anchor baby loophole to exist and close the loophole. ASAP. No use crying over spilt milk, but by all means pick of the carton before it is completely empty!
If this were to happen, in 18 years our anchor baby child support payments would be over!!! They are here, make sure they are educated properly and that they become responsible citizens.
Yes, 18 years is a long time, but anyone who has gotten a divorce or fathered a child out of wedlock in the USA knows all about child support.
Send a clear message to would be law breakers, you will never be citizens and from this day forward, a foreign born, non-US citizen, having a baby in the US does not make this child a US citizen."
I can see where one might be confused by what was written.
I suggest that you "socially conscious" people go to a country that uses another language and see how many jobs and social services you can ask for.
Why must the US feed all the neighbor kids?
Jesus would probably walk them back to their parents' house and ask the parents why they refuse to care for their own children. Then would keep an eye on the parents to make sure that they did. Not that I would presume to speak for Jesus, I base this on what I read about Jesus in the New Testament.
Sorry about the parable but it is in keeping with the "Jesus" theme.
SO IF AN ILLEGAL USES MY SS#, DOES THAT MEAN I'LL GET A BIGGER CHECK WHEN I START COLLECTING? WILL I GET MORE BACK ON MY TAX REFUND?
JD
They will more than likey accuse you of selling your SS# and force you to prove otherwise in court. At your expense! The take away all chance of future benefit because of the fraud, track down the one who did the fraud and console them about how terrible it must have been for them to work all those years and get no credit. Then give them your benefits.
LV4LIFE:
Why should we accept other countries poor, when we have problems feeding our own people.
Part of the problem with mexican illegals are that they are from the bottom of their society.
Wasn't there an article in the Sun last month about pro immigrant groups teaching the illegals how to read and write spanish, so they can eventually learn english.
Do we really need bunch of illiterate criminals ruining our quality of life and sapping our tax money?
DESTRUCT_MUTT...DISTURBING AS IT IS, YOUR PROBABLY RIGHT.
It's amazing to me reading these posts that of the main functioning word here is Illegal. ILLEGAL means that these people are BREAKING THE LAW OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. The discussion need go NO further than that. They have broken the law and should be deported IMMEDIATELY and not let back in ever!!!
Hahahaha
You guys obviously don't know bureaucracy and flexibility. Too many idiots here who post commentary that doesn't make sense. I'm superior yes, because I'm smarter.
for all you illegal lovers...invite them over to live and eat at your house...
otherwise round them up and ship them all to searchlight to work for harry...
"We need a cash for cutters" program. cutting the tubes that is. Free sterilization for both sexes plus $500. Like we are short of people? We are short of water, power, freeway, school, park space, etc. The average family size in Mexico has dropped to 2.1 from 4 in the last 20 years.
As Earl Butz said during the Reagan administration: "He that no playeth the game no maketh the rules."
Most Latin Americans are telling the Pope to take a hike, just like the Europeans did 50 years ago.
It is time for ZPG.
Mred, you're right.
The average number of children born to Mexico's family's has greatly decreased, so true.
I see a bunch of idiots with their idiotic comments saying only these "Mexicans". It's not just them, it's a bunch of others.
The Mexicans are the only ones with the audacity to march in America with a Mexican flag protesting about immigration reform. Would have meant a lot more if they had marched with American flags only. Instead of bringing sympathy and understanding to their issues, they made it very clear where their loyalty lies. This not only alienated most "White" people, but people from other countries and nationalities. America is the "melting pot". These folks would be the first ones to change the rules once they get theirs.
Additionally, the only other country that shares our borders speaks English (for the most part, if you count Canadian) and some speak French.
It is outright discrimination or favoritism to offer services in English and Spanish and not to offer these same in every language spoken in this country.
Simple example is the written driver's test here in Nevada. It is offered in English and Spanish only. There are people from all over the world living here in Las Vegas, that must learn English and take the test in English just to get a learner's permit. Spanish speaking people do not, they get preferential treatment in that they are allowed to take the written test in their native language. A prime example of how they have got theirs, to heck with the rest. If it is proper to offer this test in a language other than English, then it is proper to offer the test in all other languages as well.
It's true that we need to fix the "illegal immigration problem". We also need to fix a bunch of other things. " We the People" need to take our country back. 2/3 of the senate and more than 1/2 of the house of representatives are up for re-election and in another 2 years the rest will also.These people have gathered too many political favors giving them too much power.Show them they work for us. Vote out all incumbents. Take back our country and show them we will not stand for it anymore.I don't have any problem with anyone who wants to better their lives, but do it legally the way both my parents parents had to do.
"Mred: The reason the family size in Mexico has decreased from 4 to 2.1 is that all the child bearing woman are in the northern 48 states. The average 19 year old female Mexican living in the northern 48 states has 4.5 children. look it up.
While you're doing that she just had another baby."
You sir fail. You obviously don't have an idea of what you're talking about and never been to Mexico, and if you have, only to a tourist area only. Mexico has a population of over 100 million, 51-52% of which are women, a good deal which are child bearing, don't bring that uninformed crap in here.
"I don't have any problem with anyone who wants to better their lives, but do it legally the way both my parents parents had to do."
People who only get legal immigration status that come from Mexico aren't in need, they're only given to those who are wealthy and well off. Poor people don't get that.
Simple if we get these people from being felons in our country, get them legalized (like Ronald Reagan did back in 1986). Just a couple strings attacted to becoming legal: 1) no welfare for 10 years, 2) can take social security after 20 years of legalization and have to be over the age of 77, 3) They make sure all minors complete his/her education up until the end of high school.
Michelle Malkin is a anchor baby
Heck with all the voices for deportationWe may have just created some ideas for new jobs and I know what we can do wiht all the left over portable homes left over from Hurican Katrina ,Gostov,Rita First we have the Amercican auto manufactures build buses,More jobs.Then we build Trucks,More Jobs.Then we take the trucks hook them up to the unused trailers left over from the Huricans take them across the boarder drop them off,More jobs.Then we hire U.S. citizens to drive the buses,More jobs. Then we hire more U.S. Marshals to round up all the illeagles and their kids,More jobs.We put them on the buses and take them across the border and drop them off at the trailers.Now who can complain we are prviding homes and transportation to the illegals.Plus we have created more jobs to replace them and we are still being civil to them but before that we need to build a wall not a fence a wall to keep them out unless they are legal.Sounds like a logical solution we save federal assistance money we create a huge number of jobs and maybe even saved some lives considering an aquaintance of mines boyfriend was just killed by the off springs of illeagals.We need to take care of ourselves(U.S. Citizens)first.The next thing is we have shown compassion but now we need to show our political leaders who sympathize with illeagals that we are sick and tired of their hogwash politics and vote them out of office.
destruct....I erred to think your sarcasm or everyone else's sarcasm would allow me that same privilege. Sarcasm on this thread is mute; it amounts to a hill of beans and mere entertainment for the more insightful visitors.
I started out with " I tend to agree with some of your thinking" so for the most part changing the laws, eliminating loopholes, and amending the constitution are all in line with what needs to be done to stifle our pop-problem.
I employer you, don't go changing you blogging style on my account, if I can't understand or comprehend your point/counterpoint it is I who errs. Silly me, to think these threads are about others, when in fact they are rooted in deep EGOTISM, the sickness of me, I know it, I have it too mutt. You see, in my circles when blogging is referred, it is meant to be ones sickness and rightly so if you can understand introspection. You're welcome.
Nice deflection. And thank you for allowing my sarcasm.
"Simple if we get these people from being felons in our country, get them legalized (like Ronald Reagan did back in 1986). Just a couple strings attacted to becoming legal: 1) no welfare for 10 years, 2) can take social security after 20 years of legalization and have to be over the age of 77, 3) They make sure all minors complete his/her education up until the end of high school."
Nice one, I actually favor what Reagan did and have them be responsible citizens. It's impossible to kick them out.
This will enable them to not be leeches and participate more than the average immigrant.
Sean09, We do it because that is what this country has always done. "Give us your tired, poor, huddled masses" to paraphrase. If you think we should let only rich well off immigrants into the U.S. you are an elitist snob of the worst magatude.
LV4LIFE, you have vested one Gubment pension already, now you have been hired by a different Gubment department, Welfare, direclty associated with this discussion and problem of which you are receiving personal gain. One can hardly expect you to be objective in your view of the current discussion. Grew up in Las Vegas, lived in Las Vegas 4 Life by your own admission. You really have no life experience to share here. Socialist. Oh, I mean Social Worker!
destruct, this will be the last time I address you. You have no idea of what you are speaking about. Your last comment proves that. You and those like you have made up your minds based on misinformation that even straight forward FACTS will not open your closed off minds. It is people of your ilk which make this country/world a less safe place in which to live.
You have failed to offer any facts at all. I have looked through your posts on this subject and there are no facts. Only sarcasm and critisism of all who don't agree with you.
I on the other hand have merely offered my own observations and personal experience which seem to be pretty personal facts as I was personally there. Along with real and thoughtful solutions that would work and the reasoning behind them.
If you have some facts or real solutions to the problem posed in the article, Welfare Going to Parents here illegally, by all means post them. If not, I hope you are true to your word. People tend to accuse others based on their own perspective.
i like vegasvamp's suggestion, maybe include an application processing fee of $500.
or Maybe $1,000. It would help the economy quite a bit.
15 million undocumented Latinos x $1000 processing fee = 15,000,000,000...i support it!
See ... no problems, only solutions. Turn that pile of crap into fertilizer.
15,000,000 X 4,000 (processing fee) = 60,000,000,000
Add a few other fees plus a constant stable number of tax payers, don't allow them to receive welfare, unemployment, etc.
that's just a rough estimate.
That'll generate some money!
Just to put some perspective on it. The last amnesty generated exactly that kind of money for attorneys across the US. Each illegal paid a minimum of 2000 to an attorney to file the paperwork required.
Now try to tell me that Congress is not looking out for their "constituants". They are handing their true constituants a pile of money every time something like this is passed. What a racket!!! Make the law and then profit from the law you just passed and somehow they can feel that there is no conflict of interest?
Want real CHANGE in America? Quit voting lawyers in to office!!!
If any other group was doing this they would be grabbing them by the "monopoly" shorthairs!!
The general public has been duped in to looking at everything else but this. Putting all this hate mongering up at the front while they fill their wheelbarrows with cash and head for the bank.
Their first oath of loyalty is to their profession. The oath to the Constitution is second.
One big, long, drawn out magic act. With no "TA-Daaah!" in sight. Real "Magicians" and "Sorcerers".
We, as voters, have got to look at this one requirement first. If you are profiting from law, in other words, a lawyer, you cannot hold office and write law.
It is a conflict of interest acress the board. Not just when your "law firm does work" directly "for the applicant".
"Pay no attention ........ to the man ........... behind .... the curtain!"
I stopped looking where others wanted me to look a long time ago.
Hey man, look it at like a stimulus.
Nevada, here's a suggestion. Get a State Illegal Immigration Law there like Oklahoma, Arizona, Mississippi, Utah, Missouri and a number of other States.
When you get rid of ALL the illegal aliens, you will get rid of ALL the problems that go with them. THAT IS A FACT
Unions in Nevada should be ashamed.They let illegals join and say they are only a hiring hall.They should be fined like the contractors who hire them without E-VERIFING first.So the unions need to step up and protect the contractors who give us work.At this rate we will all be out of jobs.Some will be lucky to get welfare and others will starve.So we need to stop giving anchor babies all this welfare to support their ILLEGAL PARENTS... Support the 287(g)program and send the ILLEGALS packing.