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StumbleHow CityCenter’s room rates will compare with Strip rivals’
Tuesday, Oct. 20, 2009 | 2 a.m.
Sun Coverage
Sun Archives
- CityCenter to begin making nearly 12,000 job offers Monday (9-18-2009)
- CityCenter's Aria Resort to hire 350 workers (8-2-2009)
- A look inside CityCenter’s application mill (7-17-2009)
Online reservation sites are offering discounted room prices that reflect the effects of the recession on the three hotels opening for business in December at MGM Mirage’s CityCenter complex.
The weekend after its Dec. 16 opening, room rates at the 4,000-room Aria will run from $169 to $219 per night for a 520-square-foot room and from $475 to $1,150 for a suite.
Weekend rates at Vdara, the 1,500-unit condo-hotel opening Dec. 1, will start at $159 for a 582-square-foot suite, and go up to $359 for an 836-square-foot suite with panoramic views.
By comparison, rooms at Wynn Las Vegas and Encore will start at $199 a night — and about $100 more for the opening night of country singer Garth Brooks’ debut there Dec. 11. At the Venetian, rates for the weekend after Aria opens will range from $199 to $239, and from $199 to $369 at Palazzo.
Topping the market is CityCenter’s 392-room Mandarin Oriental hotel, the smallest luxury hotel with no casino on the Strip. Thanks to an extended grand opening discount of 50 percent, Mandarin will offer opening Dec. 4 weekend rates of $298 for rooms of about 500 square feet, up to $2,000 for suites with more amenities.
•••
Sun Archives
- Executive named examiner in Fontainebleau bankruptcy case (10-16-2009)
- Fontainebleau president among execs leaving project (10-15-2009)
- Fontainebleau a symbol of bad timing, not the only victim (10-12-2009)
- Fontainebleau judge wants quick sale of bankrupt project (10-2-2009)
- In reversal, Fontainebleau lenders suggest liquidation (9-25-2009)
- Fontainebleau: Bank no longer ‘seeking to destroy’ project (9-17-2009)
While Penn National Gaming continues to negotiate a potential purchase of the bankrupt, unfinished Fontainebleau Las Vegas resort, some subcontractors still owed money are exploring another idea for how to recover more of their money: buying the resort themselves.
It’s an unusual development but wouldn’t be the first for the Fontainebleau, which has become a construction industry case study as the largest unfinished high rise in the country and a headache for any potential buyer given the more than $1 billion needed to finish the building.
The unique circumstances behind the Fontainebleau make such a bid possible, as the subcontractors, owed about $375 million, are arguing that their claim takes priority over bank lenders’ claims. The subcontractors might then be able to bid the value of their claim in exchange for canceling the debt and taking control of the property.
The value of their lien is higher than the “substantially less than $300 million” that Penn is expected to offer, though the company has yet to make a starting bid. Subcontractors were expected to receive cents on the dollar if Penn, which has been negotiating with the contracting firms, were to buy Fontainebleau.
Buying the property might give the subcontractors a better chance at recovering their money over the long haul, though the future is cloudy. The resort may take a year to complete, and an inexperienced buyer would need to hire a host of experts to run the project, including a general contractor, a casino management team and a hotel management company with a customer list and reservation system.
•••
CityCenter is creating a ripple effect — of the positive kind — for needy job seekers.
After weeding through about 160,000 candidates to hire 12,000 workers for CityCenter, managing partner MGM Mirage is starting another mega job search for thousands of jobs left open by MGM Mirage employees who left for CityCenter.
About one-third of CityCenter’s employees, or 4,000 people, were internal candidates from MGM Mirage, creating openings for other MGM Mirage workers or outsiders to move into.
Job seekers who previously filled out CityCenter applications online but did not get a CityCenter job can update their Web applications by indicating interest in other MGM-owned properties.
About 20,000 people who already had jobs at MGM Mirage hotels — people offered a head start in the application process — applied for CityCenter jobs. Many outside candidates without jobs were former managers at other casinos who took entry-level jobs.
With Nevada’s unemployment hitting a record high of 13.3 percent, the company can expect to pick and choose the best candidates.
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$298 bucks for a room? Normally $596 night What a steal!
I bet that when the Mandarin opens, it will be 38% full, then they will offer
rooms for $79. (does not include all you can eat chinese food buffet $69.)
It's a disaster!!!!! They are soooo stupid
Maybe their set rack rates are a "disaster" boomer111 but just think of all the jobs! and we need them! Their prices reflect the billions spent on the place... Its a new property, we all know the prices will settle given some time...
Good thing I didn't bother applying for CityCenter. They constantly had job fairs even after having 160K people apply. Now the ones that didn't get the jobs at CityCenter are encouraged to go through the interviews all over again with a different MGM property in hopes they get a job. The bad part about applying for MGM is you can only apply at one property at a time. It would take months to find a job with these people; if Luxor doesn't hire you, try Mandalay Bay and on and on. Interview after interview. Instead they should allow you to apply at all the properties at once and interview with a main HR office instead treating every property separately, which wastes everyone's time.
The room rates posted above are A JOKE ! HAHAHA No one can afford it, and no one will come PERIOD. Try 59 dollars weeknights, and 79 dollars weekends mabey then they will at least possibly have 50% occupancy...HAHAHAHA.....
thekube,
I know an entertainer who works for various Harrah's properties. He works at whatever property he is assigned to, Mostly Harrah's, but sometimes Flamingo, Caesars or Bills. I agree with you, MGM could have a HR dept. to fill jobs wherever needed, rather than jumpimg from property to property looking for work. With all of these new rooms coming on line, there will be downward pressure on rates along the strip, especially along the MGM corridor.
The real answer is to sell off City Center piece by piece to SEPARATE owners so as to create sorely needed competition here which will result in better value oriented offerings to lure back the tourists and locals alike.
What is wrong with this picture? Vdara is a condohotel tower, meaning that the units are owned by indivduals who can rent them out using MGM's reservation system and share in the rental income. Vdara is opening to the public Dec 1, but buyers aren't closing on the units until March 2010, I believe. So, if MGM is making units available as hotel rooms before owners close, what units will they rent out, and how will people who don't own them yet get their share of the revenue??
Uh, what? They simply don't rent out those units that haven't closed. Isn't that obvious?
Have you people not seen that there is some demand at the high-end? Is there not a price-war beginning the week of CityCenter's opening? Have you seen those apartments at Encore on the weekend? They're all packed. There is competition and there is a back and forth. Occupancy for the entire city is at 81%. Clearly some people are still coming to Vegas, just not your average American with little to no disposable income. Just because many of the tourists aren't Americans, doesn't mean that no one is coming to Vegas.
boomer-
The Mandarin Oriental is known as a top-notch 5-star hotel chain. $298 per night may not seem like a HUGE discounted rate at first, but remember the quality of this hotel. It's pretty much in line with the $259 starting rate for The Wynn-Encore Tower Suites and the $249 starting rate for The Four Seasons at Mandalay Bay.
thekube & Bakersfield-
Thirded. I don't get why MGM Mirage won't streamline their employment process and just assign prospective workers to whichever casino where they're needed. I think this would actually save them money, so I don't understand why they won't just do this.
solar-
Good point. Foreign travel to Vegas has actually remained flat, even while domestic tourism here has dropped significantly. As much as some folks here complain about the "Asian whales" and other foreigners with money to spend, the fact is that they're helping to prop up our tourism-addicted economy and prevent things from getting even worse. Oddly enough, the middle-market places are suffering the most in this recession as the 4 and 5-star hotels engage in a price war to keep the high rollers (and those who just want to act like such) and the low rate discount joints slash rates even more to lure bargain basement travelers into town.
This is all back and forth chatter that refuses to understand that the entire concept of City Center belongs to the pre-real estate boom bubble burst. We now are living in an entirely different non disposable income age literally overnight which can only be massaged by down grading everything to embrace the middle income masses with their limited disposable income by sheer force in numbers. When the big time owners and stock holders are ready to come out of their denial, only then will these properties begin to find the path of business development which will turn a profit. In the meantime it's going to be a long hard ride.
Folks, The Mandarin Hotel is in a class by itself. It is high-end - Four Seasons Style and are known around the world as such. There is a REASON they don't have a casino - they Don't need it..their marketing / business plan is way different than MGM or anyone else's - except maybe Steve Wynn's - he is the only other one that "get's it". As for the other CC hotel's - I would think they need to worry. You'll see huge PR about opening months - sold out, etc. Then when it settles down is when it will really matter where they are - are they sold out or at 60%..that will tell the tale..
retiredyoungster : The last time I was impressed with this town, it was a gambling town. People will do just this : go to all of those other destinations around the world to stay in these high end hotels who you say don't need gambling. Fine! let 'em, but when in Vegas we like to gamble! we don't need any more non gaming high end hotels. We need more Stardusts, Frontiers, Desert Inns, Sands, . You know before the Aladdin opened it was a non gaming hotel called The Tally Ho, and guess what ? it fell flat on it's face. This is a gambling town. If you want class and sophistication go to Monaco or Paris France. If you want gambling, drinking, and sports betting, entertainment and value vacation packages, come to Vegas It's what made this city the most exciting destination for the past 80 years!!
As we speak, Vdara is offering $129 a night with a $50 credit through... April, I believe. That is unheard of for a property of this caliber. So, I think, to some extent, MGM is not ignoring the mid-market. Vdara is a world-class hotel. Perhaps not the biggest draw of CityCenter, but at $1.8 billion, it's no slouch either. It's also attached to Bellagio, the CityCenter tram, contains its own spa and restaurant.
Not everything being offered at CityCenter is $79 a night or whatever some people here are talking about, but it certainly isn't being unrealistic in the prices given either.
retired-
Exactly! The Aria casino will be right next door, and both The Bellagio and Monte Carlo casinos will be a quick monorail ride away. I do think CES in January will probably help to prop up the City Center hotels shortly after opening, but they will need to be creative to survive afterward. Hopefully the new Cirque show, shops, and restaurants will be enough to keep people interested.
environ-
"The last time I was impressed with this town, it was a gambling town. "
And it still is, but it's a different kind of "gambling town". People can now get their gambling on in Atlantic City, Detroit, Tunica/Biloxi, and not to mention all the Indian casinos scattered all over the country. Steve Wynn realized over 20 years ago that Las Vegas needed something else to keep the tourists coming.
Even though Atlantic City is catching up with us on luxury, Vegas now is in a unique position as America's Premier Gaming Destination. Where else can one win big at the poker table, have the dinner of one's life at Guy Savoy or Joel Robuchon, and find that perfect outfit for a night to remember at Pure or Tao?
While I do think the casinos need to do more to offer real value to consumers, I don't believe "value" has to mean cheap, crappy buffets and dingy motel rooms. Vegas has changed, and mostly for the better. The casinos will still need to keep rates competitive in the next few months to lure in tourists, but ultimately this town is undergoing a vast transformation and there's no turning back.
SOLAR:
So, if MGM is renting out condohotel units in Vdara that haven't closed, then:
(a) MGM might be renting out units that buyers have already placed 20% deposits on prior to buyers closing, thus not sharing rental revenue with their buyers for these units.
(b) If/when buyers eventually close on their units after March 2010, MGM might continue to rent out unsold units (perhaps even those units with 20% deposits on them that haven't closed yet), and thus compete with buyers who have closed without having to share any rental revenue at all with them.
But then, MGM already has so many "satisfied customers" in their Signature condohotel towers, don't they?
http://signaturecondohotellitigation.com...
It should be interesting to sit back and watch how this all plays out . . . . . .
What.
If a deposit has been put down on a condo, MGM is not using that space for guests of the hotel-Vdara. Duh.
We have heard rumblings that MGM has explored the idea of establishing the majority of Vdara as a hotel since the majority of buyers have opted for Veer or Mandarin condos. If MGM begins to use a condo that has no buyer as a hotel room, then it decreases in value and would have to be considered 'used'. That's if... IF... it would still be sold as a condo. It really is that simple.
I have no idea why you're trying to position MGM as somehow screwing their buyers. Just like The Signature towers, buyers take on a certain level of risk. MGM can project what kind of revenue can be seen if these properties take off. Unfortuntely, we're talking about money-markets and real estate, which is about as fluid as the credit market. It's all legalized gambling and every last investor/buyer/tenant should damn well know that.
atdleft : I understand your point, however I still feel very strongly that this town has priced itself out of the market. We both know that there is not enough wealth here in the valley to sustain these high end properties. Nor is that kind of wealth really making the trip out here from California these days either. The minute Wynn lowered his room rates to $189.00, and everyone else reluctantly followed suit the town occupancy rate shot up to 80 something percent. What does that tell you? What it tells me is that we don't live in the kind of world that existed when these places were being built before the bubble burst. These places have cost so much to build, and require so many employees to run them, they have to clear a certain astonomical amount weekly to stay afloat! There just arent enough customers with the spending ability out there to sustain their overhead. This is why I believe so many people in the industry are living in denial that things are going to return to the way they were a year and a half ago. So now is the time to reshape their objectives to include the entire economical spectrum for our city's tourism product to survive.
A lot of interesting comments on this board. One thing I have been hearing about is the problems the 2 big Indian casinos in Conn. are having, due to having expanded like crazy, and are now in big money trouble. They spent like crazy on hotels and such, and now business has fallen off a cliff. Plus they have to give big payments to Tonto and all the other mostly 1/16 Indians. I have seen comments in the big East Coast papers how people are looking at Vegas again, getting great promotions in the mail. One noted that "Other than the plane flight, everything is fun to do". And remember, no free drinks in Injun Country, the hotels are over $200, and there ain't that much to do at a casino located in BF Egypt. So maybe there is a future for Vegas.
"Maybe their set rack rates are a "disaster" boomer111 but just think of all the jobs! and we need them! Their prices reflect the billions spent on the place... Its a new property, we all know the prices will settle given some time..."
yeah, we need those jobs, but we really need better jobs. And longer lasting jobs, not these temp jobs that just get the hotels through their big openings, and then bye, bye to half of you. And higher paying jobs, not just whatever is the lowest amount that any foreign born idiot will work for. And when the occupancy rate is nil or near nil, how many of those 12,000 will still be lucky enough to be employed? Or really want to be?
Can you say 15% unemployment for a long, long, long, long time? Don't forget about the next wave of home foreclosures coming, since no one is working in town and the every-year-no-matter-what-we-always-layoff-at-Christmastime-bull-crap that the hotels are about to unleash...
nuts and bolts, nuts and bolts, we are screwed, Las Vegas!
SOLAR:
"If a deposit has been put down on a condo, MGM is not using that space for guests of the hotel-Vdara. Duh." -- Are you 100% certain of that? Given the situation that they're in, if they can wring revenue out of a room, I think they'll do it without hesitation, unless a contract would specifically preclude them from doing so (and even then . . . . . .)
If I had bought a unit in Vdara, given the hype that I'm sure MGM will use as part of their "grand opening" marketing, I would be asking why MGM isn't closing Vdara first so that, if I can close, I could at least piggyback on the publicity and start making money off of my unit ASAP.
"establishing the majority of Vdara as a hotel since the majority of buyers have opted for Veer or Mandarin condos." -- What is your source for this? It seems to me that this is a hard argument to make since the numbers don't seem to add up. For some time now, MGM has been crowing that Mandarin condos are virtually "sold out". Let's say they have 90% of the total 220 or so units there under contract -- that would give us 198 units as "sold". I believe that MGM has also said that about 60% of the 670 or so units in Veer are under contract -- that would give us about 402 Veer units "sold". Adding Mandarin and Veer units ostensibly "sold", this gives us about 600 units already under contract in these towers. MGM has also said that about half of the 1540 or so units in Vdara are under contract -- that would give us 770 Vdara "sold" units. It seems to me that 770 "sold" Vdara units is greater than 600 combined Veer and Mandarin units, no?
"I have no idea why you're trying to position MGM as somehow screwing their buyers. Just like The Signature towers, buyers take on a certain level of risk." -- I'm not specifically positioning MGM as screwing buyers; however, I do believe that condohotel is a particularly bad investment vehicle. Regarding the "certain level of risk", the whole point of condohotel is to put the bulk of financial risk on buyers' shoulders. Buyers essentially subsidize the cost of the development by purchasing units, and the hotel operator (synonymous with the developer in this case) rakes in rental income (partially shared with owners), HOA charges, and a variety of other fees on owners. If you take a little time and read some of the legal filings in the http://signaturecondohotellitigation.com...
website, you might get a better of sense of the tactics that MGM used to sell these properties, much to the detriment of their "valued customers".
If this is indeed "legalized gambling" as you point out, is it possible that the house has tried to stack the deck in its favor??
i am 99.99% all the job fairs were nothing more than free advertising.
every time they had one, every newspaper and tv station in town "reported" on it and what better way to "fluff up" the image of this white elephant than to make it look like "ohhh, we're going to be SO busy that we need STILL can't find enough people to service all the customers".
it will be busy for a few weeks and then it will slowly fizzle.
Point 1: Yes. Per the contract signed at the time of deposit. YES. MGM is very unlikely to screw over someone handing them $500k in the long-run, if not more. Remember that many of these units were taken up by whales, executives in the company, and other manner of Vegas royalty.
Point 2: Statements made in the past two weeks by MGM executives. Statements that are backed up by the company's marketing focus of CityCenter's opening, and not of the residential options available.
I do believe the numbers of the Mandarin Oriental's condos sold is correct. People trust the brand and the level of service. Having stayed at a Mandarin hotel, I can't blame those buyers.
Point 3: Sure, condo-hotel investments have definitely not panned out in the past for anyone, really. I don't think that's debatable.
The facts are that a lot of people have lost a lot of money on condos in Vegas and I can understand the feeling of being burned by that bad investment. Nothing is a guaranteed money-maker and anyone with the lettuce to put down on a condo as expensive as The Signature or Veer or whatever should know that. Is MGM going to try to completely sell these people on what they're selling? Of course. That's their job. Is it reasonable to assume that a giant corporation is going to engineer a deal that guarantees them profit and that any losses are eaten by its customer? Yeah. This is America that we live in.
Wouldn't pay a dollar to stay in this middle-eastern infested project.
Who am I going to have a drink with at the bar? Mohammed or Sheik Alibaz?
HERE'S WHAT YOU'RE MISSING:
The people that run these joints ain't COMPLETE morons, they're just PARTIAL morons.
THEY'VE HAD THEIR MARKETING PEOPLE HUMPING THIS THING WORLDWIDE FOR YEARS.
EVERY SHEIK, TYCOON, MOGUL, PRINCE, DUKE, BARON, EARL, OR ANY OTHER PERSON WITH A TITLE OR BIG MONEY THAT IS:
a.) too stupid to win
b.) too addicted to stop
c.) too rich to care
HAS BEEN COMPED. PERIOD.
The price numbers you see are just for the "regular joes/janes" that THINK they are in the same league as these "purple robes" types.
Don't be fooled by these gamblin' joint half-wise fools.
Remember, whorin' is LEGAL in Nevada (in all its unusual forms).
And we have the "grab your ankles" types runnin' the show in these whorin' outfits.
(As Andrew Dice Clay famously said: "Hey, what's yous twos names, Bob and Neil..?")
Zowee!
I have some acquaintances who want to buy the Fontainebleau, too! with some gold coins from the 1700's they've had stuffed under their mattress since then.
The way things are going, those coins outta be worth 'bout $375 MILLION BUCKS veeerryy soooon....
(Anyone need a wheelbarrow?)
Job Interview Questions to weed out 160,000 MGM MIRAGE and other gamblin' joint applicants:
Blackjack Dealer - Can you stand and count to 21?
Dice Dealer - Can you stand and count to 12?
Players Club Rep - Can you stand and hand out t-shirts and players cards?
Parking Valet - Can tell which is D and which is R?
Cocktail Server - What's the shortest skirt you ever wore?
Pitboss - Have you ever trusted anybody, ever?
Foodserver - What does an expensive hamburger look like, cold?
LimoDriver - Can you really make it look like you're working while loading those two bags into the trunk?
Change Maker - Who's on the One?
And for all applicants - What language do you speak? (Huh?)
Whew! Those HR people WERE WORKIN' HARD, BABY.
Pullin' them weeds out is WORTH a day's pay, no matter how you cut it.
(Almost forgot this one - And who do you KNOW......?)
Give it 2 months and this place will look as empty as the palazzo on weekday nights. The casino at 8pm looks like its 3am. Dead. Alot of Dealers and Cocktail Servers early outing due to no money to be made.
Like I said above The new Las Vegas has priced itself out of the business...
city center = ugly disaster. what is the strip turning into.. vegas is fun to visit bc its unique..if it keeps getting like this i will take my two trips a year there and go add them to my cancun time instead.. vegas was amazing the first time i went 5 years ago.. now it seems like it is losing its touch
All you have to do is wake up,turn on the tv,and see how bad vegas is dieing on a daily basis!Just with this story alone you can see that these exec's havent heard anything that the people have been asking for?I can see this city looking like the set they built in the movie,Damnation Alley.Sand dunes,and cockroaches takeing over!!!
you are right, vegas priced itself out of business! the only way they can survive is on fat cats. middle america has walked away from the whole mess, its just not worth the hassle of flying any more.
I remember 28 years ago the first time I was in Vegas, what a great place it was. Even 10 years ago it was still a great place. We used to make 3 to 4 trips a year. Now I wonder if it is worth even one trip. Hotels/Casinos have change not for the better but for the worst. When will the big shots ever learn the every day American not a whale made you. But it seems you all have forgotten that.
Txtea :
The only places worth visiting these days are The Orleans, and Golden Nugget downtown...
it was great even as recently as 2001 / 2002 because THEN there was some competition. it was 8 or 9 companies doing battle, now it's 4 or 5.
It's cool to watch the usd value against Euro and other foreign currencies to drop while the room rates are dropping too. Vegas has never been cheaper to foreign tourists than now and that's probably the reason why you get more tourists from overseas than ever before.
It's time to treat these tourists nice and not talk to them like....ljjsldkfjjlsdf f...ng tourist beat me at the poker table by s.,...king out on the river ......
These people bring you the cash you need right wo. So it's time to seriously catering to these overseas travellers.
I am from Switzerland and one of these tourists.
as long as your not an American coming to Vegas these rooms rates are dirt cheap. The dollar is practically worthless and getting worse. Europeans are basically paying the equivalent of Motel 6 rates for a $298/night room. I wish I had a bunch of Euros.
I have one thing to say to your comments boris,when will you people start learning what a tip is then?If you want us to go that extra mile,then show some thanks by leaveing more than just a buck!I greet every customer with the same smile,and get stiffed by the foreigners everytime!
Rumrunner - Why don't you try going the extra mile BEFORE the tip?
In Europe if you don't deliver good service you don't get a tip - why is that a problem?
Too many employees in LV deliver lousy/unfriendly/slow service but still stand there with their hands out for a tip.
You shouldn't get tips just for showing up to work - what do you think your pay is for?
Well let me tell you this robrob!As i posted earlier,i treat every customer the same,and greet everyone with a smile.I have people that come all over the valley for one of my sandwhichs,and they will watch as the foreigners will run me crazy,talk down to me,then stiff me!To be very honest,its like haveing people in the same industry at my counter,because there no better at tipping then the foreigners!
rumrunner, you don't get the point. If you buy something in a store, then the price you pay for the item includes everything, that is the packing, the stuff that's inside, and the person that puts in the price into the cash register and collects the money. A company that hires somebody to sell something pays a paycheck to that person, as otherwise the system doesn't work.
I noticed a long time ago that in Vegas, it's all about the money. I think that could be one of the reasons why players prefer playing on a t-i-t-o slotmachine. So if they win (IF) they can cash out and take the money. If you play b-j instead and after 25 hands or so you are being dealt a b-j, then is it that you're supposed to tip or what???? You got to be kidding me. I might tip a dealer regardless whether I win or lose. I might tip 2x or 3x if she's really nice to me and I might think she likes me and exchange cell phone numbers. But I will not tip just because I accidentally hit a black jack.
Too many people in Vegas are used to the idea that all tourists are supid and only there to deliver their money. Vegas is a tourist destination in the first place, and it's the idea to spend some good time. If it starts at the airport already that the rental car driver to the Rental Car Terminal wants to help you with the luggage that you carried all the way from anywhere in the world and now for this 4-6 feet he grabs your suitcase, why does he expect to get tipped for that? It's the Rental Car Terminal corporation's duty to pay a decent paycheck to the driver as they charge enough for theses sometimes run-down vehicles!
I think if the casinos make so much money on the players, then they should pay a fair paycheck to its employees. Over here, we're getting a decent paycheck. So, if a customer doesn't want to tip, he doesn't have to. With or without black jack. And the system works.
And another add-on comment: These fast food service coffee chains, you know what I am talkingn about, the Seattle's based coffee maker chain that was taken over by the other big coffee giant, they sell you coffee that's not actually "cheap", even with the cheap dollar versus the Euro. However, there's this TIP box right next to the cash register. I understand that every employee wants to make as much as possible with the least possible amount of effort. If you think about , however, why would you have to TIP for a coffee that you just paid for? Let's say a brew of the day costs 2.68 usd, all taxes included, why do I have to leave the change in that plastic box next to the cash register? If tipping is mandatory, then let the company charge 3 dollars instead of 2.68 usd and then the cash attendant will get that tip automatically.
The most ridiculous thing I have seen so far in Vegas is the guy who whistles for a cab and latches the door. Out of 10 parties entering a taxi, I reckon 2 or 3 parties tip a buck or two to that whistle-blower. This adds up to quite an amount by the end of the work shift. I think this guy makes more money than an airline pilot who really needs to take responsibility. And then these tips will be shared among the valet crew or the bellman team, I don't know. But I just noticed that whenever I enter a taxi and don't tip that whistle-blower, he gives me a serious look and "have a nice day, sir". I don't care, and I will still not tip this guy, as I don't see the point for doing so. But that's me. Other people maybe like to throw their money out of the window. That's not me.
Boris, you have touched on a BIG difference between America and Europe and it's also why we are still fighting about medical care in this country instead of medical service being free for all citizens.
Corporations are expected to get all the money and the people are expected to get screwed. In Europe that idea is much more strongly rejected. I love my country but I do not love my country's lockstep obedience to corporate abuse of the common man.
micmac99, thanks for sharing your comments. Finally somebody who looks at things from the distance and not trough pink classes.
Well, matter-of-fact is, health care in Europe, and also here in Switzerland, is in deep trouble. And it's not true that it's free to everybody. In Germany, the employer and the employee pay a huge fee for being insured for health care. And then, from what I know, it's mostly free when you go to a doctor.
Here in Switzerland, everybody needs to have a health insurance, by law. But it's to your own discretion what level of insurance you pick. As for me, I take care of my body, don't smoke, don't drink much (very rarely) and do some exercise. This is all to make sure I am not sick that often. As once I am sick and need a doctor, it's getting expensive. I must pay everything on my own up to 2500 usd per calendar year. Only once this "cushion" has been used up, the insurance covers the balance. In any case, I must also pay 10 per cent of everything that's beyond these 2500 usd per calendar year. The 2500 usd cushion , my monthly payments are deducted by approx 150 usd from an insurance that has a cushion of only 500 usd per calendar year.
People who get sick often use a small cushion, healthy people a big cushion. People who believe they can hurt the system, will see their doctor for every little thing. Especially women like to do these check-ups evvery 6 months or so to find out whether or not they have cancer. This is the expensive thing paid by the community.
I have been paying my monthly fees for years now and still pay my doctor's bills myself as I am usually under that 2500 usd limit. Still, it saves me money as my monthly fee for the insurance saves me about 2000 usd per year. It's a gamble.
The thing about tipping in Vegas is that we Europeans see that some people clearly exaggerate and the "quick" Thank You is forgotten just 5 seconds after the person received the tip. I see crazy stuff at the poker tables, 1-2 no limit, 18 dollar pot, 2 dollar rake plus 1 dollar drop plus 1 dollar tip to the dealer. Sorry, there are shuffle machines these days, and the dealer has less work to do and gets more hands dealt out per hour. I don't tip on a 18 dollar pot anymore, even if the dealer hates me for that.I am not there to burn my money.
add-on: A T.I.P. is ok when you feel like somebody deserves it. I think it's unfair to order up a drink from the cocktail waitress and then time the arrival by "checking the restroom" to make sure the drink gets there in place while you're there and therefore can't leave a tip. This is unfair and should not be accepted. As far as corporations are concerned, the people working for companies in any kind of sector that is catering to the customer and making money on the customer without giving anythign for free should not expect the customer to tip an additional amount to the person that delivers the service. This applies to Starbucks employees as well as valet parking people. VALET service should be charged 2 or 3 dollars, and that's it. It should not be free, as it's never been free, anyway. Once they charge 2 dollars for the valet, lazy people will have to pay for it, and everybody's happy. Why is it free if it's not free? I mean, nothing costs nothing, right?
In the poker room I sometimes see that dealers are tipping the floorman or the cleaning person. I feel sorry when I see that. Makes me somewhat believe that they're palm greasing the floormanager to make sure their name will be put on the work sheet the next day, and when they tip the cleaning person in the room a few bucks, to me this looks like a sign of..."well, I know you work hard and get paid poorly, here's a little somthing extra...". This is all middle-aged strategy to me. In Asia, tipping is absolutely off. Macau has no tipping. The employees get a paycheck that guarantees their survival and life. And the system works. What if in Vegas nobody would tip anymore? The casinos would still make a lot of money, but the employees with minimum wages would not be able to make a living. Isn't it a shame?
summary: Health insurance is not fee in Europe, either. In fact, it's very expensive and an issue to all politicians. It's so expensive that they're always fighting to keep the cost under control. It's good to have that insurance, as you can be sure that in case of a big event, you are covered.
As for tipping, it's probably useless to discuss this matter with a conservative American or Las Vegas local. In your mind something must be written like "...tipping is a part of the system, so I must tip, regardless."
In our "trashy-European" heads, something instead is written like "Why tipping? The service is included in what I paid, the house edge in the casino is big enough to pay for the drink I am just holding in my hand, plus the service by the waitress."
In fact, tipping is also appreciated over here, but it's not as widely spread like in Vegas. Tipping in Vegas sometimes looks like some sort of palm-greasing for the future, and, unfortunately, many people depend strictly on the tips. You either can acccept the fact that no all countries think the same, or not. I still remind the people that are struggling in making their monthly payments to double-check their tipping attitudes. There's a lot of money being thrown out of the window every day when you tip everybody that's delivering you a service. Think about.
we should also start tipping the airline pilots flying us into McCarran, tipping the security man checking up on my luggage at he airport check-point, tipping the lady at the checkout at Albertsons and of course tip the postman for delievering me the morning post.
Actually, life is all about tipping. Tip everybody you see, and you will find out that there's a lot of tax free money to be made. Obama will hate you for that if you don't declare this in your income tax statement. Think about this.