Ron Kantowski:

UNLV’s Mike Sanford running out of excuses

Fifth-year coach drops to 13-40 overall with Saturday’s 59-21 loss to BYU

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Sam Morris

UNLV quarterback Omar Clayton gets sacked by Coleby Clawson of BYU in the second half of their game Saturday at Sam Boyd Stadium. BYU won the game, 59-21.

BYU vs UNLV

The Rebels suffered their second straight lopsided loss, this one by No. 18 BYU. The Cougars piled up 611 yards of total offense on their way to a 59-21 victory.

UNLV vs BYU Football

UNLV wide receiver Phillip Payne reaches for an Omar Clayton pass against BYU on Oct. 10, 2009, at Sam Boyd Stadium. Launch slideshow »
The Rebel Room

BYU POSTGAME: Rebels run ragged ... again

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Ryan Greene, Rob Miech and Alex Adeyanju digest all there was to take in from UNLV's 59-21 loss to BYU on Saturday night at Sam Boyd Stadium.

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After another lopsided loss, what do you think happens to 2-4 UNLV against 4-1 Utah?

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Next game

  • Opponent: Utah
  • Date: Oct. 17, 7 p.m.
  • Where: Sam Boyd Stadium
  • TV: The Mtn. (Cox ch. 334)
  • Radio: ESPN Radio 1100 AM
  • The Line: Utah by 17

To paraphrase Spike Lee, it’s gotta be the socks.

One of the exasperated fans who wrote on the Sun’s Internet site more or less blamed the Rebels’ latest humiliating football defeat, a 59-21 demolition by Brigham Young at Sam Boyd Stadium Saturday night, on the Rebels’ black socks.

Really. Their socks.

You gotta give this fellow named Gregory some credit. He may have come up with the one excuse that UNLV coach Mike Sanford has yet to use for his team’s continual lack of progress.

Last week, after a demoralizing 63-28 drubbing at Nevada-Reno, Sanford (13-40, 2-4 this year) said up to then he had not been directly involved with what arguably was the worst exhibition of defense since Poland capitulated to Germany and the Soviets during the 1939 September Campaign. Starting this week, he would become directly involved.

Was that a promise or a threat?

Where was The Resistance? Romania?

I suppose you could argue the Rebels were slightly improved on defense, in that they allowed only 59 points this week as opposed to 63, and only 611 yards as opposed to 773 last week. BYU is better than UNR. But let’s not forget that Harvey Unga, the Cougars’ Wooly Bully running back, spent the fourth quarter trying to get Sam the Sham and the Pharaohs back together for a reunion tour. And let’s not forget that if Bronco Mendenhall, the BYU coach, were as vindictive as Chris Ault, the UNR coach, it’s conceivable Unga could still be picking Rebels out of his teeth.

Afterward, Sanford said the Rebels were missing a couple of their key defensive players, and that was the difference. Then he said the three interceptions thrown by UNLV quarterbacks also were the difference. He did not, however, mention UNLV’s black socks.

By the way, the interception excuse is the same one Sanford used after the Rebels lost 30-27 at Wyoming a couple of weeks ago to prolong the nation’s longest losing streak in conference games played away from home.

Sanford is turning into the Liquid Pledge of college coaches. You can’t charge him with dusting off the same excuses because they don’t sit around long enough to gather any.

I actually thought Sanford might do the honorable thing and announce his resignation after this latest debacle, a la John Robinson in 2004. The Rebels started 0-4 that year mostly because they didn’t play Sacramento State. Regardless, Robinson called everybody into his office on a Sunday afternoon. His heart wasn’t in it anymore. His wife was sick and so was his team. He didn’t blame injuries, or terrible attempts at throwaway passes along the sidelines resulting in interceptions. I will always respect John Robinson for that (as well as a lot of other things).

The next week, the Rebels went out and destroyed UNR 48-13. Suffice it to say, UNLV did not allow 773 yards in that one.

Mike Sanford is not the answer to what ails the UNLV football program. I know it, you know it, he knows it. The events of the past three weeks have pounded it home like Buddy Rich on the drums. But there is no disgrace in not getting it done at UNLV. Wayne Nunnely did not get it done. Jim Strong did not get it done. Jeff Horton did not get it done. The legendary John Robinson, who won a national championship at USC, for John McKay’s sake, did not get it done.

Tony Knap got it done, but that was in the 1970s. Harvey Hyde got it done. That was when the Rebels had Randall Cunningham and all kinds of other players who could run and block and tackle, some of whom even went to class.

UNLV wanted a winner. Harvey Hyde gave it one. This is how it is at schools such as UNLV. They want you to compete against Ohio State with an Ohio University budget and facilities. Then the president gets all righteous when a linebacker skips class or a defensive back steals a stereo.

See, if I were Sanford, that would be the excuse I would use.

Jerry Koloskie, the Rebels’ interim athletic director, is taking serious collateral damage from passionate UNLV fans for not exercising the authority he says he has and demanding Sanford’s resignation effective immediately (not when the Rebels are still mathematically alive for a bowl berth, Koloskie says). He says it’s about more than wins and losses.

It’s not about more than wins and losses. It should be, but it isn’t. It’s about wins and more wins. It’s about putting rear ends in stadium seats. It’s about generating enough revenue to send the women’s tennis team on the road.

It’s not about graduation rates. Mike Hamrick, the Rebels’ former athletic director, said it was a lot about graduation rates. You see where that got him.

But were Mike Sanford to say he was told it was about graduation rates, and it’s hard to beat BYU when you are trying to be like Princeton or Yale, at least I’d listen. If I were him, I’d also throw in the dirt parking lots and the lousy TV deal.

Otherwise, it may as well be about the socks.

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  1. This guy is a joke!

  2. All this talk that keeps going on and on and on is accomplishing absolutely nothing. Mike Sanford still there, the AD is still there, the defense coach is still there and the tons of excuses are still there with more excuses coming.

    Who is going to take action? Who is the one that will finally say, ENOUGH.
    Enough, we got to think of the players, we got to think of the fans, we got to think of the income UNLV desperately needs but is not getting due to lack of fan participation. Who has the guts and the steel balls to finally say, WE NEED A NEW COACH. WE NEED TO GET RID OF THE AD THAT REFUSES TO SEE THE TRUTH THAT IS STARING HIM IN THE FACE.

    All this talk will accomplish nothing. ACTION will. Once in for all, let us stop talking instead, let us make enough noise to finally push the decision makers to take the only course of action. FIRE SANFORD. GET A NEW AD.
    FOR ONCE, LET US THINK ABOUT THE PLAYERS.

  3. Great piece Ron - This is the second time I have told you that. I have a gut feeling that President Smatresk will blow both Koloskie & Sanford out becuase he is realizing this is getting away from him real fast & he is losing whatever fan base was left to an already hurting UNLV economy. Ron keep up the good work. Rebel fans should look to you for the inside scoop on this train wreck. Keep us posted please!!!

  4. Why is sanford still on the payroll? Didn't the president say that he was going to be closely watching...didn't he see the debacle which was the byu game?!
    FIRE SANFORD! He is not a head coach. He may be one of the brightest OC in the nation, who knows; but he is not a head coach.
    Let's start next year right now by firing sanford, placing one of his assistants as an interim and start the search. Enough is enough. We have the athletes to compete and win but not the coaching to move them to the next level...time to move on! Sad thing about it is Rocky Long could be here running the defense and I'd beat donuts to dollars that teams would not be compiling over 500 yards of offense per game. Sanford is a clown so get him a job at Circus-Circus; he no longer should be running the UNLV footballl program.

  5. Through back to back to back two win seasons, I went to every home game that I was able to. I salivated and drank the kool-aid in the spring thinking we had a defense and that Omar was going to return to form. I was a little concerned with the running backs and replacing "the Tank", but figured our receivers would help pick up the slack. So, I log onto UNLV Tickets on Thursday night to see what tickets were available. Hmmm, Section 128, Row 6, right on the 50 yard line on the HOME side for once. Errr, I'll pass, I can't watch this train wreck again.

    At this point, even if they don't fire Sanford (I understand the financial implications, I wouldn't fire him either, I'd make him "special assistant to the women's soccer score keeper" or something similar), the defensive "coach" should be fired to show that there is at least 1% regard for keeping the fan base.

  6. well said Louis_G

  7. It isn't funny or amusing anymore. FIRE HIM!!! Please for the love of God, FIRE HIM!!!

  8. Is the next coach going to fair any better? No! UNLV cannot compete in D-1 football. Where do you recruit? Utah? No. Arizona? No. Nevada isn't exactly Texas or Florida. You end up with kids the Pac-10 doesn't want. It's time to DROP FOOTBALL AT UNLV! If this means we can't be part of the Mt. West, oh well, we're probably better off. UNLV could be a powerhouse basketball/baseball school. You want to talk about a coach that should be fired, let's talk Buddy-Ball.

  9. If Coach Jeff Horton had been given football program money like Robinson and Sanford have gotten Jeff would still be Rebel Coach.

    Ask any his players and they will all tell you Jeff was a good coach

  10. bigfish, you're a moron. Vegas valley has nearly 40 high schools playing Nevada's top prep football, and only ONE university in the valley. UNLV should be able to be competitive by using Vegas as a base....heck, the starting running back and starting middle linebacker at both Utah and Oklahoma are Vegas natives (Wide, Sylvester, Murray, Reynolds)......a freshman RB from Vegas at Reno nearly had 200 yards on UNLV and had 5 TDs....Colorado State's best receiver is a Vegas native.....the valley has players, all UNLV has to do is hire a great coach for once, win more games than he loses, and start to keep kids home.

    "DROP FOOTBALL...", that's an insane/arrogant comment fish...why don't you go home to wherever you came from, Vegas doesn't want you.

  11. Sandfor will be fired.

    It's simply a matter time. I agree that the program will be better off the sooner it happens.

    This season is over, so it really doesn't make that big of a difference.

    Jerry K is in way over his head. It's somewhat of a positive that he's been given an audition and we've been able to see he's not the guy for the job. At least they didn't just hand over the position to him.

    The one question I wish someone in the media would ask Sanford is: "Under what conditions would you consider resigning?"

  12. bigfish mentions that UNLV can't compete in D-1 football, but I'd have to disagree. Personally, I think the Las Vegas area has a lot to offer a top athlete - the resources just aren't there, and the planning isn't consistent with the goals.

    UNLV has a lot that your top athletes want (not necessarily all good things, but college kids want them): sunshine, the Strip, and a large student body that would look to them as rock stars. It also has a presence in D-1 basketball that lends credibility and recognition to its other programs.

    What UNLV doesn't have is what kills the program year in and year out: (1) a stadium close to campus that players and fans would be excited to come to, (2) top-notch training facilities, (3) respected coaches, (4) attendance at the games - see reason 1 again, and (5) a tradition of winning.

    Personally, I think UNLV could quickly become a recruiting force in the MWC and in the southwest (including California) if they had a respectable stadium close to campus, some improved training facilities, and respected coaches. -- I think the stadium would lead to better attendance, better revenue, and the desire for respected coaches to be a part of the program.

    Just like the Thomas & Mack Center, UNLV could use an improved football stadium located closer to campus to lure a BCS bowl game, possibly the Super Bowl, UFL games - as long as that lasts, pre-season football games from NFL teams, and perhaps even a full-time NFL team. They'd also be more likely to attract things like ESPN's X-games, more headliner Monster Truck events and Motocross events, and could even shoot for MLS or World Cup soccer events.

    I'm relatively new to Vegas, but I'm shocked that the city and the university haven't teamed up to build an NFL-style stadium that - in my opinion - would attract fans, big bowl games, top-notch college coaches and players, and a slew of other events that would lead to revenue for the school, more rooms being rented on the Strip, and more notoriety and recognition for UNLV, Las Vegas, and Southern Nevada.

    Remember: If you build it, they will come!

  13. If it was about more than wins and losses, Sanford would have been fired a long time ago. Because he just doesn't lose, he loses in the ugliest possible way. Even in his best season, with bowl eligibility on the line, his team doesn't just get beat, but gets clobbered by the SDSU, the worst team in the conference. No one expects UNLV to compete with Ohio State year in and year out. We just want a team that competes hard and makes some progress. Its not the kids' fault. It is squarely on Sanford. No one does less with more.

  14. When do the players begin to take some responsibility for the unsatisfactory play?

  15. UNLV needs to make a change.

    www.firemikesanford.com

  16. O.K. unlvrebelx, I may be a moron. How many Nevada high school players are listed in Rival Top 250 for 2010? "ZERO" UNLV will "NEVER" compete with BYU, Utah, and TCU in football. Even if they hire Bill Belichick. Just like as I am from Vermont, UVM will never compete with UNLV in Basketball and UNLV will never compete with UVM in hockey. It's all about the recruiting market, and whatever you may want to dream, Vegas is not a good recruiting market for football. Yes, there will be individuals who break the mold and go on to play big time D-1 football but it will not be consistent. It's a basketball/baseball town and we should focus on those sports and dominate in whatever conference we are in.

  17. well, while we should fire sanford, this is BYU, ranked 18 in the nation. really expected anything else?

  18. Seriously, Ron, the Sun has to do something about one person signing up for multiple handles and then creating the appearance of arguing back and forth with himself!

    Sybil's multiple personalities battling amongst themselves are funny to read, but really add nothing to the discussion.

    I have to disagree with your central thesis that UNLV can't field a winning football team unless it spends money it doesn't have or cheats.

    Maybe I'm naive, but that's a dichotomy I refuse to accept.

    It doesn't take an $80MM annual football budget to run, tackle, block, punt and pass.

    As bad as this program has been under Sanford, even Sanford managed to recruit and train athletes who could go to class, graduate, and still compete with Arizona and Oregon's state universities.

    Sanford failed for a simple reason: the DC needed to go after last season. Everyone knew it. But Sanford stuck by him. Now, as a result, Sanford has to sink with him.

    I admire Sanford's loyalty to his assistants, but it's been loyalty to a fault because it came at the expense of the program.

    If he'd cared more about succeeding as a head coach than he did about being friends with everybody, he would have replaced some of his under-performing assistants a long time ago.

    Even Mr. Nice Guy himself, Lon Kruger, learned as much after two years on the job. Look at the difference hiring guys like Grensing and Henson for Kruger's coaching ability!

    UNLV doesn't need to cheat to win or recruit kids who haven't earned the right to be in a classroom. The University's suffered enough from past allegations and doesn't need to go down that road again.

    We're not doing the school or the athletes any favors in life we cheat to win or neglect to equip these young people with the education they need to succeed once they are 22 years old and the cheering stops.

    MWC schools like TCU, Utah and BYU have shown that schools like UNLV can compete at the highest level of college football using available resources WITH THE RIGHT LEADERSHIP at the helm.

    And that's the only thing Sybill and his MP's and I can agree on!

  19. Sanford has flatlined, his football team and staff have no pulse, pull the plug on this guy already.
    The fans will come back when the university takes the next step forward by dumping Sanford. Please show us something to believe in President Samtresk, show the fans that you are behind them and we will be behind you. (Like he is even reading this). Is the $60k really going to make that much of difference in the grand scheme of things? The season is lost anyways, wax Sanford & Ko-lost-kie like yesterday and maybe UNLV wins some games the rest of the way out.

  20. --- nyr you make a valid point regarding this UNLV team under Mike Sanford but how do you explain nearly 25 years of dismal performance under the other coaches? One may conclude, as I am on the verge of, that the pieces aren't in place for UNLV to be successful in football. Either that, or UNLV has incredibly bad luck/vision when it comes to hiring coaches.

    I'm thinking the Miami U. approach might be the last thing that hasn't been tried here, at least not in a while. Remember, Miami had fallen on hard times when the decision was made to ... well, become Miami. They hired Howard Schnellenberger and he recruited a bunch of ... let's just say players with a chip on the shoulders ... and the wins -- and money -- started pouring in.

    --- Everybody else, thanks for weighing in as usual. It's amazing the football program still has so many followers who care, considering what many of you have had to endure over the past quarter century.

  21. Saying Mike Sanford is a joke implies that there's something funny, or a punch line, to all this. I don't find anything about the football situation even slightly amusing. This man rode Urban Meyer's coattails, conned UNLV into hiring him, and has made us the laughing stock of the D-1 ranks. Watching the BYU sidelines Saturday night was like being privy to some family reunion. They were smiling, laughing, joking, and having a great time, all at our expense. Teams look forward to seeing us on their schedule, because they can chalk it up as an easy win to pad their records. Rebels on the Rise? Try Rebels in a Rout, or Rebels on the Run. This is nothing short of humiliating...

  22. Ron, since I'm new to Vegas and haven't been privy to the discussions that have certainly gone on about an NFL-style stadium (similar to the approach that led to the NBA-style Thomas & Mack), can you tell me and the other readers why UNLV and Las Vegas haven't partnered to build a large stadium closer to campus and the Strip that would undoubtedly draw loads more fans to every event and could potentially draw events from the NFL, NCAA BCS system, World Cup, MLS, etc?

    In a city that's constantly building and looking for ways to attract visitors, I think an NFL-style stadium would make a lot of sense here.

  23. Love the clown who talks about UNLV being a baseball and basketball school. Lets drop football is a bunch of non sense.

    Last time I checked, UNLV has not won a baseball conference title since 2005. Their Head Baseball Coach is 147-156 overall at UNLV. They have a JC program in town that could beat them and all of us locals know it.

    BUDDY STILL HAS A JOB COACHING AT UNLV! Not exactly dominating their conference are they?

    Colorado State does not have overwhelming facilities. Air Force should they be able to out recruit UNLV? Both fired long time Coaches and yet both had new Coaches who took their teams to bowl games after year 1 on the job. Coaching does matter and to think that UNLV can not compete against Colorado State, Nevada or Air Force is a joke.

    Are Nevada's facilities just so much better than UNLV's - NO.

    Are Tulsa's facilities so much better than UNLV - NO.

    He is being out coached and out recruited by lesser schools than this one.

    We need a guy to lead the program who can do the following:
    * Walk the talk - not going to throw out verbal lobs at a school and get his **S kicked each year. (Sanford vs. Nevada)
    * Has prior Coaching Experience where he has won - lets have our back up go in and throw a bomb into double coverage on his first pass. (last game - but you can name plenty in this spot)
    * Can sell his vision to fans - instead of a guy who watches people in college shirts walk by him on the street and wonder why people dont know who he is. (Anywhere in Henderson and at local High School Football fields)
    * Can get rid of the OLD BOY NETWORK at UNLV - Sorry other football coaches - you are gone. Marketing - you are gone and we are going to do this like a major school would. (Bradeson and Cink - gone - sorry) (Name the promotion - what are these people running out the field and kicking a ball for - I have no clue, think of any game where traffic can not get into the T & M or Sam Boyd - no police to help)

    * Get people to believe -
    Sanford did not do it, he looked like a deer in headlights. Credibility - he does not have it and now we have to find someone anywhere who has some to spare.

    I just think that having an AD who does not believe in wins and losses as a way to judge a Coach- should be in the IVY League and not in the Mountain West.

    What other team plays a game at Hawaii and does not schedule an extra game to pay for the trip? NO ONE ONLY UNLV. You get an extra game when you play at Hawaii - what you could not find a way to get NAU or SUU to come over for a paycheck?

    Do you think that any of the big college sport headhunters are calling any of these local candidates?
    Give me an Associate AD from Florida, Texas, North Carolina or Oklahoma and have him or her show us how big time athletics are supposed to be run.

  24. Hay Kirkland, thanks for reinforcing my point about the baseball coach. You agree with a clown. UNLV "could" be a baseball power nationally with the right coach. UNLV will never be a football power nationally even if they got Bill Parcells to coach here. Let's put it this way. Can UNLV ever compete in recruiting against USC, UCLA, Cal, AU, ASU, BYU or Utah in Football. No, and that pretty much puts a perimeter around UNLV. Please, somebody tell me where UNLV is going to recruit the athletes that will allow them to consistently compete on the football field. Where is UNLV's top recruiting market? If your child was a top recruit from Vegas, and was being recruited by UNLV, UCLA, Utah, Cal, and UNR, where would you want him to play? Where do you rank UNLV?

  25. It's not the socks, it's the mustache. Remember his mustache? Things went so much better for him back in the mustache era.

    http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/scho...

  26. UNLV should recruit more on the east coast IMO. The east coast is full of kids that are 2nd & 3rd tier players that end up going to D-2 & 3 schools because there are no JC programs on the east coast like there are out west. Besides east coast kids love coming to the sunny west. Instead UNLV gets the 5,6,7,8th tier players from California & Guam or wherever & starts these kids except for the (1-2) top flight recruits like Randle & Bridget=(East Coast) who should start and they are going to redshirt, go figure.

    Sanford was on 1100AM today with more jibberish about why they are not winning. His exact words, "I'm not making excuses these are the facts we did not have our top 2 tacklers and we had to play kids that have never played". WHAT??? So Starr & Paulo would have made up for the 38 point a** kicking, this guy is unbelieveable. He is acting, talking, & coaching like his job isn't in jeopardy at all and he has nothing to worry about. He really believes that he is going to bring this ship up from the oceans floor.

  27. Maybe UNLV could just switch to arena football and play inside the T&M.

  28. Hey Ron, We endure as Rebel football fans simply because we have no other options in Southern Nevada. I started going to Rebel games in 1975 and the stadium was a dump back then located in the middle of nowhere yet they expanded because Tony Knapp was a 6-7 game winner every year and fans came to watch. We did the Miami Cane thing when Knapp retired and we hired Harvey Hyde. He recruited like he was at Miami landing among other players Marion 'Suge' Knight who still carries a chip on his shoulder. Harvey was let go after a string of purse snatching thefts brought some bad press to the program. A case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.

    An on campus stadium would help out the program quite a bit as far as fan support and making UNLV feel more like a university instead of a commuter college for students. The old elementary school UNLV owns on Swenson and Tropicana would make for a great location given it's out of the airport flight zone. It could be dedicated solely to football and Sam Boyd could be dedicated to hosting events as it already does.

    Right now would be a good time for a dress rehearsal to find out what Asst. Head Coach Todd Barry could do. I'd say if he can match Sanfords win total this year in the games remaining and keep it close at TCU he's got the job, if not we search elsewhere. I think Barry is a great coach who can win 5-7 games a year which is respectable. The defensive staff other than Patterson needs to go though no questions asked.

    Sanford has recruited well give him that. The talent level he inherited from Robinson was horrible. The next guy is going to have a better chance given the better talent he'll start out with.

  29. There is kid on the Rivals.com.250! Xavier Grimble is rated. Vegas has good high school football. I could list at least 20 kids here who are going D1 trust me. Rivals only puts down top players according to a few sportswriters at yahoo. I have at least three kids on my roster who have already been offered scholarships.

  30. I'm sorry, There is one kid from Nevada on Rivals 250, AND HE IS COMMITTED TO USC. Can anyone give a non-emotional reason why UNLV should continue their football program. Do they make money on concessions at Sam Boyd?

  31. it's really not a difficult question to think through.
    The fans aren't in the seats and they're not likely to be, with Sam Boyd being so far from campus. A real college sports program makes it easy for the students to be involved and the trek out to S.B. is too far, always will be.
    In the current climate of cutbacks, how could any sane person suggest spending millions for a sports stadium? Look at what's happening to the academics!
    It's not just Sanford, although if UNLV was serious about this program he, and all the assistants, would have been replaced three years ago.
    Let's remember that universities are for teaching and research. This whole sports thing has become far overdone in U.S. universities. Where a successful program actually adds to campus life, as the UNLV basketball program does then by all means keep it.
    But there is no justification, especially during the current cutbacks, for UNLV to even field a men's football team next season. Play out the current schedule and then stop wasting this money on nonsense.

  32. First of all anyone that wants unlv to end there football program is 1 not a unlv fan.2 and they do not love football!!So my next question is why are you even posting on this topic.Now to the other people that say's we need a on campus staudim yea it would be great I guess but it dosent make a real differnce look when unlv wins the seats are filled,also as far as getting local recurts there have been alot of top players from las vegas who said they wanted to play at unlv but unlv did not try and recruit them so thats why they went out of state.How I see it the more local kids we can get the more sold out games we would have..point is with local talent unlv can win who remebers when unlv upset wisconson? That was when unlv had 3 star denfence players that was from sin city!!

  33. We all know Vegas has top notch national talent at the skilled positions, the major problem with them staying is the bad new rebels. I guarantee you top local talent would think twice about leaving Vegas if UNLV was a perennial top 25 school every year. If someone can fix this long standing mess called our football program the local kids would come. They have nothing to be proud of, why should they stay here when they can go to the Big-12, Pac-10, & the Big-10 and play for real coaches, real programs with tradition, play in real stadiums, and in front of 90,000 real fans and have a chance to win a national championship? Nothing here is ever gonna change until those at the top primarily the president of UNLV makes the necessary changes to be an elite university and put UNLV on the national football radar by hiring real football people like an AD & a real coach.
    It would be nice to have an on campus stadium but even out in the swamp of Henderson if UNLV will win games on a consistant basis the fans will come. Besides even from Summerlin it only takes me 20-25 minutes to get to Sam Boyd. It's all freeway and easy to get to IMO.

  34. Hire Larry Kehres - one of the most successful division III coaches in the history of the game of football - lots of division iii championships and long runs with only w's! Kehres for coach! Contact Mount Union College and hire the best in the country!

  35. R.I.P. Rebel Football....... Rest in Pieces.... 773 of them.

  36. The number one reason why a player would want to stay home is to play d1 footabll close to home so your friends and family can come to every game..

  37. There is no reason or excuse why UNLV should not be a top 25 school every year. There is no reason top national talent shouldn't be coming into Vegas all the time. This is Vegas, the whole world comes here. There is a personna about this city that no other city has that could be used as a major draw. Do you know how many players around the country want to go to California simply because of LA and Hollywood? I know this is true because I lived in SoCal and talked with cats from all around the country that were there simlpy to be in Cali. Even when USC sucked under Robofat's second stint, cats all over America still wanted to go to USC simply because of Cali's style. Granted winning solves everything and brings in recruits but you have to start somewhere. Look at some of the cities (places) that have on the rise or thriving programs. Who wants to go live in Boise, Norman, Salt Lake, Lincoln, Tallahassee, or Gainsville just to play football, get my point?

    My post is really about this, there is no reason why UNLV should not be able to draw national talent and the reason we cannot right now is because of our AD and our coaching staff. Cats would love to come play in Vegas if the coach had a clue and new how to sell it and live up to his word by playing the top recruits instead of redshirting them.

  38. I agree there is a possibility the football program could be terminated. This is a critical time for UNLV; their very next moves are crucial. It's a 50/50 coin toss whether Rebel Football rises or falls completely..

  39. TO: Comeonnow:
    Are you serious in saying you believe that UNLV places too much emphasis on classroom academics and not enough on football? You must be kidding of course, but if not your comments lead me to believe that you are a total moran...no brains and no knowledge as to what universities exist for in the first place.

    While UNLV is not yet in the 100 top academic schools in the nation, it could and should be if the state should ever decided to properly fund post secondary education. The school does not exist for football, etc. but rather athletics exist because of the school and academics therein.

    No athlete graduating from any school anywhere in the U.S. receives a diploma that says, graduate of the School of Football, or School of Basketball ,etc. Colleges and universities don't exist to graduate athletes but citizens well rounded in a specific knowledge field like Business, Journalism, Education, Sciences, etc.

    It is true some schools graduate athletes that cannot speak a complete sentence without uttering the often repeated phrase, "You know man...., You know ...". Some leave school early to vie for a position on a professional team, often ending up without either a completed education and diploma and no athletic career in sight. That is the sad fact resulting from an overemphasis on athletics and not a quality education.

    The general public, media, parents and others promote athletics in the hopes that a specific individual has the talent, prowess and sustainability as an athletic to make it into the big times. The lure of huge salaries, prestige and dreams of fame, recognition and untold fortunes is irresistible compared to a quality education.

  40. reason enough to not cut the football program:
    avg. home attendance 23,000-3,000 for students, parents, band, etc. 20,000 paying customers every ticket is at least $10. 20,000 times $10= $200,000 that's not even considering concessions and what not being added ontop. 7 home games = $1.4 million plus next year just playing West Virginia at West Virginia will make the team and Athletic Department $750,000. Without this money that goes to the Athletic fund the other non-money generating programs will suffer from lack of funding. Money will be reason enough to keep the program.

  41. Ok, your mathematics are half complete..now subtract the expenses of running the program from the number you derived. My educated guess is: the program runs very close, if not in the red.

  42. Who wants to go live in Boise, Norman, Salt Lake, Lincoln, Tallahassee, or Gainsville just to play football...a lot of really good football players. Kids want to win. UNLV in the top 25? How about UNLV in the top 5 of the MWC. I don't believe that UNLV will ever drop the football program, but they should. High school football in Las Vegas just isn't that good. Not good like Cal, Florida, Texas, Ohio, or anywhere in the south. And the limited number of quality prospects that do come out of the area are not going to UNLV and I don't think that they ever will. We should ask the guys at Las Vegas Sports Consultants if they have a line on UNLV winning the MWC one time in the next decade. I don't see it happening. Then again I think 3 .500 seasons in the next decade would be an accomplishment. That's sad. UNLV should put its resources into the rest of the Athletic Department. Nationally UNLV could compete in almost every other sport, i.e. golf, basketball, yes even baseball.

  43. the top two sports that bring in the most money is basketball and football!Ontop of that unlv also gets money for the other schools that go to a big bowl game.So with that beeing said why would unlv end it's football program!

  44. Answer to 'tysuave' and the others who resist this idea of shutting down the football program: No, I don't love football. I love what a good and academically sound university can do for its community. This state needs to diversify its economy, attract real productive industries and become something other than America's McJobs Center. What's being done to the academic side of UNLV is a disgrace and is harmful to the future of this state, and the futures of a host of young people who don't play football.
    If someone can show some legitimate figures, from UNLV that show real benefit to the academic side produced by this program, then keep it. I'm skeptical given the bloated salaries of the coaching staff, revealed some months ago.
    You say I shouldn't be posting here if I don't 'love football'. Bull. This thread is exactly where some intelligent skeptics need to be posting, to challenge the hoo-raw nonsense that prevails.
    A better coach won't solve your problems. You need a lot of money spent on a better-located stadium and even that might not work. And spending millions to save football, with everything else UNLV should be doing to help turn this community around, would be an obscenity.
    Play out this season. Then shut the nonsense down and get back to building a legitimate university.

  45. And a short note to 'vsestini': if you're going to call others stupid, please learn to spell 'moron' correctly. Or we may conclude that UNLV does actually have room for improvement on the academic side . . .
    The money wasted on all these coaches could hire a lot of real classroom instructors. A university is for teaching and research. Sports is a bonus not a necessity.

  46. A buyout of the Sanford contract needs to be reached, do the he is going to finish out the season bit. Get a new AD in the next 30 days with BCS experience at a school that understands how Hoops and Football can both be made successful.

    The comment about not enough local kids to recruit from in Las Vegas is a bunch of bull. Go to the insiders.com site and you will see how there are plenty of D1 talent in this State. This week Utah's starting RB and OLB both come from Vegas. UNLV could have had Devonte Christopher from Canyon Springs but told him that they wanted him on defense. Utah was one of the few schools that recruited him as a QB and they got in on him late. If Sanford could recognize talent, he would have offered a ride to him as a QB and he would have gotten him.

    I can tell you that J Robs staff was clueless on local talent and even had Coaches asking me who they should go look at - as they did not know the local kids.

    Colorado State has a starting WR from Mojave, again not recruited by UNLV. Mike Ball from DP ran wild over UNLV, he was not recruited by UNLV until Nevada offered him a ride. Arizona State has 3 starters on the #1 ranked defense in the PAC 10 from Las Vegas. The list can go on and on - just watch the Oklahoma - Texas game and you can see some more on Saturday. Hawaii has 5 kids on their roster from Las Vegas. So the comments that there are not kids locally that can play is a bunch of junk.

    Yes, we all would like to see an on campus stadium. But, how many kids who go to UNLV even live on campus? Not many.

    In 5 seasons at San Jose State - Dick Tomey has a 500 record and one bowl game. Mike Price at UTEP in 6 years has multiple bowl games and is also 30-30. Frank Solich at Ohio in 5 years is 23-26. George O Leary at Central Florida in 6 years is 26-36. The only Coach that I could find with a record close to Sanford in D1 after 5 years is Marshall's Mark Snyder with a 16-31 record.

    Sanford is 11-36 in 5 years. Temple's Al Golden in 4 years is 10-26 and right now is tied with Sanford in wins with 13 at this point in the season.

    The worst record among all 5 year D1 Coaches and now Temple is surpassing him! There is no Coach in the MAC, Sun Belt, WAC or any other D1 conference in the country that has a Coach with 5 years or more experience in his current school with a worse win - loss record than Sanford.

    This was supposed to be a turn around year, now it looks clearly like it is not going to be one. Which makes it really easy to say - Mike Sanford you are fired.

  47. What Cali, Texas, & Florida have over is Vegas is overall better teams but the talent here in Vegas on an individual level at the skilled positions can play for any top 25 university in the country. Only a few coaches in America have figured that out.

    @ bigfish: Obviously you did not pick up the correct context of my post above, catch what I said- There is no reason "WHY" UNLV shouldn't be in the top 25 every year. If players will go to cities like Boise, Suck Lake, Norman, Lincoln, & etc to play football, why wont they come to Vegas? Those are horrible cities and those football programs haven't always been stellar but somehow the coaches could get cats to go to those cities and turn them into national powers when they sucked. Tell me that Vegas shouldn't be right up there as places to go, our coaches just cannot get it done when it comes to recruiting!!

  48. Scrap the entire wasteful program and spend the much need dollars on education. What a waste of time, effort, energy and money. The state cannot afford such a loser.

  49. I would rather watch trash football then not have any football at all "Ive been watching unlv for years" like I said before anyone that wants to end football is not a fan at all!!

  50. Another reply to 'tysuave77': OK, you are a football fan. Great. So watch football on TV you have multiple ESPN channels to choose from. Why should this troubled university continue to carry such a failing program? You haven't answered that question at all.
    Universities were founded to teach, and to do research. It's only in the TV Age that the sports madness took over the picture. When UNLV is not laying off real teachers and researchers while carrying an inept and overpaid coaching staff, year after flailing year, then we can talk football.
    I haven't seen any believable figures to show that there's a net production of revenue to the academic side of UNLV, from men's football or from some of the other sports. I would wager, since we're in LV, that only the basketball program really produces revenue. We should also see just where that net gain is spent, on the real mission of the University.
    The academic mission is getting screwed this year, and this is no time to run a welfare program for Football. Much less spend on a new stadium.

  51. I am going to make what some might consider a dumb comment here, but I am not sure how people can complain about the stadium being too far away from the school. It is about a 10 min drive directly east of the university. There are bus routes there also. They have even built house across the street. I know that the housing situation around the university is not the greatest so I don't know many students that don't have cars that attend UNLV and don't know many people in Las Vegas without cars. I don't think that we can then continue to blame attendance issues and the losses occurring at UNLV based on the fact that the stadium is too far away. I live near Mt. Charleston and can get there in 25 mins. Perhaps this issue should be laid to rest because as soon as the school spends money on building a closer stadium the people currently living in Las Vegas will just complain about the school's wasteful spending habits.

  52. I am questioning my own sanity in continuing to go out to these games when its obvious that the coaching staff is completely and utterly lost. As a season ticket holder, I think that there has to be some fundamental change in the state of affairs. However, I am affraid that if you fire Mike Sanford, and relace him with some other coach - you are going to be right back here after wasting another two or three seasons so the new coach can get his own recruits in the door. We did that nonesense with Sanford and this year has to be about the most disappointing one in his whole terrible tenure. Anyone have any suggestions for getting a new coach to step into the picture and stop the bleeding? I don't have a clue who would assume the handling of this program given the record of failure that it has piled up over the years. The author of the story has a great observation that there is probably something far more sinister at issue here that can't be cured with the simple removal of coach. Although at this point - I think that Sanford has lost all control and he has to go. As an aside - 1) where is this supposed "campus stadium" going to be built? (dig a hole in the ground and put it somewhere where it can't interfere with the flight patterns at the airport?) and 2) with what money? I love the comment by SufferingSuccotash where he writes that we should get a bare bones stadium with just the necessities just so long as it is near campus. Please - we already have one of those - its called the silver bowl / Sam Boyd and we don't need two lousy stadiums in the Las Vegas area. If you build a new one it needs to actually be good. However, the thought of building a new football facility for the Rebel Football program makes zero sense. The program is in shambles.

  53. Hello!? We're a commuter school who should be more focused on GRADUATING kids than football! Jeez! Let's look at the graduation rate of football players...have they improved under Sanford? If yes, keep him. If no, sack him. It's just a game boys...

  54. Can't believe the length of some of these comments!

    Brevity = More reads!

    Anyway, I agree that the players are responsible too. And that an on-campus stadium would help with recruiting.

  55. I can admit that Las Vegas school football was not good years ago but over the past nine or ten years there have been plenty of football players playing major D1. Look at the PAC 10 and MTN West there is not only a kid from Vegas on most of these teams but many are impact players. We need these kids to stay home!

  56. To the 'academia' posters:

    The only reason UNLV has any academic credibility today is because of the prestige and revenue earned by Jerry Tarkanian's Runnin' Rebels which began in the early 1970's.

    Like it or not, college athletics are a NECESSARY evil to progress your academic agenda.

  57. Reply to 'Grayback4Life':
    Tarkanian's era of basketball gave UNLV credibility as a sports franchise, but I fail to see where it did anything at all with the academic credibility. The gains on the academic side arose far more from the productive term of former Pres. Carol Harter and the hard work of the real professors and researchers on campus.
    I'm waiting to see any real figures on the financial contribution FROM the sports empire over to the academic budgets. I doubt there's any at all.
    This problem isn't unique to UNLV but it's worse here than at many others. Sports was always supposed to be for the benefit of the students to promote a well-rounded development: body, mind and spirit. It has morphed into a monster system of professional franchises operating in, and replacing the real mission of, our higher education institutions. It feeds egos and paychecks for administrators and coaches but does nothing to educate the students or promote research.
    Universities in other countries are not so distracted by this nonsense.
    Our graduates are competing on a global stage.
    ***
    If UNLV wants to distinguish itself from the other public universities then a great way to start would be to jettison this Sports Empire and focus on the primary mission. This state needs such a focus more than most.
    So, I say don't replace Coach Sanford. Just close the program.
    ***
    By all means keep the basketball program, but let's see some of that revenue go into the academic budget for a change. I suspect that not one fat dime does so, right now. Anyone ready to prove me wrong on this point? With real verifiable figures?

  58. Carol Harter and the 'real' professors you speak of wouldn't have sniffed Maryland Parkway if it weren't for Tark.

    For example, single seats on Gucci Row used to go for $2000+ each in the 80's and early 90's. Where do you think that money went, to the mafia?

    Condescending viewpoints usually suggest an underlying issue: tunnel vision.

  59. Wow. Lot's of crazy statements and opinions, and some strange perceptions-

    @dayers-

    20,000 locals and 3,000 students at a UNLV football game? When was the last time you went to one? In Las Vegas that is.

    @BetOnBlack-

    It is because of the nature of the city itself that Las Vegas is unable to recruit. Football families do not want their sons living in this environment. Period. Tark, guilty or not, created a lasting impression the rest of the U.S. has that this is a crooked athletic program based in a city redolent with corrupt politicians, a thug culture, and laden with 24/7 home-delivery vice. There is no college football culture here.

    @Grayback-

    How do you explain Bennington College, Dartmouth, Colorado School of Mines, Rocky Mountain College, Evergreen State, Occidental... all are highly respected academic institutions with minimal to no intercollegiate athletics.

    @tysuave77-

    The MORE sold out games we would have? I guess even one sold out game is one more than zero. The last time a UNLV home game sold out was when Wisconsin traveled 30,000 of ITS fans to Las Vegas.

    Don't anyone be surprised when, amidst the current budget crisis and a now shrinking population base, the prospect of terminating football and departing the MWC is floated by some very high-ranking people. Like Mr. Kantowski stated, from so many angles, it simply appears as if the pieces just aren't in place for FBS College Football to thrive in Las Vegas. Utah, Wyoming, and Colorado fans will miss coming here a little, but the rest of the conference would actually prefer it if the T&M was a neutral floor anyway.

  60. To 'GrayBack4Life':
    I suspect the money stayed in the Sports Empire, like at most colleges.
    If you have any verifiable data to the contrary, by all means prove me wrong. I doubt you can do so.
    I don't think I'm the one with tunnel vision here.
    There are a lot of fine academic institutions, only some listed by 'green_dragon_regular which have few or no intercollegiate sports.
    Any college should have intramural sports, just to keep the students healthy in body as well as mind and to foster character. But the NCAA inter-collegiate sports empire has grown into a cancer.
    And, it's developed into an exploitation system for wannabe pro players for leagues like the NFL.
    Our land grant universities exist to teach and to perform research. Period.
    Entertainment of former students is not the mission. And running a farm system for professional sports shouldn't be either.

  61. Actually, the solution for making UNLV a better football team as well as give the university a chance at hiring a big-name coach is simple: The MWC needs to become a BCS conference. End of story.

    If the MWC was granted inclusion into the BCS cartel the positive by-products would be innumerable. Being part and parcel to a BCS conference would validate every single program in the Mountain West Conference. As a result, you would not have top flight coaches turn down the UNLV job--not because they are a historically bad football team--but because there is ZERO chance to win a National Championship.

    Top notch coaches are just as competitive as top notch athletes. They enjoy the challenge--but ONLY if the reward is on par with the challenge. If the right kind of big-name hire is out there, with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove, I have no doubt he would consider UNLV if we were in a BCS conference simply because a.)he knows that he would be able to lure higher caliber recruits and b.)he would have a shot to win a BCS Championship with those recruits.

    Yes, the solution is simple and obvious: The MWC MUST be included in the BCS. Period.

  62. Uhh boy, we've got the bopsy twins..gdr and his 'engineer'.

    It's not surprising, gdr, you chime in with some mundane response outta left-field. I'll attempt, however, to break it down for you like Gerber baby food: UNLV = Division IA. Occidental, etc. = Division III or NAIA. They are private institutions and have a considerably smaller student population. You're comparing apples to oranges. Now, crawl back from under the hole you came out of.

    And to your 'engineer': How in sam hell did the CBC (classroom building complex), Maude Frazier Hall, the new student union, or the Thomas & Mack for that matter get funded? Answer the question this time without speculating. The name Cliff Findlay ring a bell, mr. pencil pusher? He played UNLV sports and now writes big checks to the university so you can have a library to check out your favorite Harry Potter novel. So again, you can thank college sports for helping fund academia instead of hating on it.

    Sheesh, for a poster who touts academia like a battle sword you sure come off ignorant.

  63. @ GDR:

    Vegas a thug city?? Are you kidding me? There is not one ghetto in Vegas. I can can come up with 25 cities in the US that are far worse then Vegas. SoCal & NoCal blow Vegas out of the water as far as crime, street activity, & corruption & parents release their young men to these cities with no problem. Miami is the worst city by far for a college athlete, Miami is the fastest city in America and has the most bad places for a college athlete to hang out!!
    Bottom line decisions are made by the individual not the environment!! 99% of college athletes and D-1 recruits do not want to blow it & mess up their careers.

  64. Grayback4Life:
    I don't know this GDR person, whatever problem you have with him is your problem. Your lack of civility is another.
    Building structures is fine, but what really builds a credible university is the funding of teaching and research staff. Grants for research also do a lot. Endowments that put names on buildings don't fill the offices with academic excellence.
    What is happening right now at UNLV is a perfect illustration. The basketball program is a glowing success, several of the sports teams are limping disasters but the highly paid coaches don't lose their jobs. Meanwhile the academic side is being savaged. If the sports program is for the benefit of the university (instead of the other way around!) then why weren't some of the coaches laid off to save the real professors? Please enlighten us with real data: was there one dime of reduction in spending on the coaching staff in UNLV's Sports Empire this year? Was even one academic teaching position saved by a contribution from the sports salaries?
    Let's focus on facts instead of insults, if you have any to share.

  65. You compare sports to a human killer and call it's participants 'wannabes' so I questioned your intelligence. Cry me a river.

    I get it, bud. You were the kid that used to love sports but for some reason got mad at it for a combination of reasons; most likely:

    1) you have zero athleticsm
    2)you had a coach who broke your spirit, or
    3)you were cut from a sports team and haven't made a positive out of the experience.

    Fyi, I played collegiate athletics AND earned, yes, EARNED a degree. The 'facts' are: If we did what you believe is right, which is remove major sports from higher-educational institutes, there would be NO education. You NEED sports to assist FURTHERING education. Understand?

  66. Ah, Grayback. Once again you illustrate the quality of a Clark County-UNLV education with mixed metaphors, erroneous references, and completely missing, while strangely making, my point.

    1st- it's "Bobsey Twins", not "bopsy twins". And I couldn't be more opposite from the apparently didn't get picked 'til last-for-kickball engineer. I used to be paid for my athletic skill.

    2nd-"...crawl back from under the hole you came out of."? Really? Not too sure how one crawls under a hole. Isn't the space under a hole filled with dirt? I believe you're attempting to say, "...crawl back under the rock you came out from." Of course, you might've meant, "...crawl back into the hole you came out of." That would make some sense, but it's a little mundane. How 'bout a nice hybrid? "...crawl back into whatever hole under a rock you slithered from." Or maybe you prefer, "...crawl back under the guano-covered rock you call home in that damp, dark little hole you and the rest of your belly-slithering kinfolk call a neighborhood." How 'bout that? You like that? I won't even get into the grammatical nightmare that is your clunker of a sentence.

    Speeaakking of neighborhoods, evidently BetOnBlack doesn't get out much. Try the corner of Lake Mead and M.L.K. sometime. I myself live in a very nice home that looks out on a low-rent project right across the street. I watch Metro respond to calls there weekly. There are ghettos all over this town. They're just covered in stucco and painted Maalox green. Thing of it is, my hopelessly hopeful friend of athletics, I know a LOT of people in NCAA programs and if you ask any of them, the first image any serious athlete's family has of UNLV is corrupt and inept. That is the image of the program. It is snickered at among athletic directors of non-FBS schools.

    Which brings me back to Grayback, who so graciously illustrated the point being made by some of the comments here and alluded to by the author. UNLV has an FBS label but does not behave as an FBS school. By the way, there's no such thing as Division IA anymore. You're either a Football Bowl Subdivision school or you're something else. It has the lowest academic standards of every other school in the conference, it has a fickle fan base and barely-there alumni, and simply has not been competetive in football for decades. Perhaps it would be better for all of the other sports- basketball, golf, tennis, soccer, swimming, track, baseball, etc., as well as academics if it were to leave the MWC and FBS and eliminate a divisive, fund-draining distraction that draws very little donor support. In other words, give up an aspirational label and be itself. It's a program that still has a LOT of growing up to do before it will be considered a peer among MWC and FBS schools.

    Oh, and I see a former Rebel track and field athlete decided her grace and beauty better represented a state more reflective of herself.

  67. To Grayback4Life:
    Good for you that you earned a degree while playing a sport for UNLV. Sadly you didn't learn how to conduct an argument on facts, without resorting to insults. You must have skipped that class.
    I never called for UNLV to shut down all sports. I said that the sports program should serve the mission of the university, not the other way around as at present. Big difference.
    I challenged you to provide some facts, specific data to support your position, and more insults came back. Well now, the argument is over.
    This one scores as your loss.
    ***
    FYI, I never went out for a sport, never had my spirit broken never failed a tryout. Like most engineering students, I was too busy studying. I did succeed quite well in sports in my 20's, got that part of my ego massaged quite well. Also backpacked a lot, sailed competitively and did lots of other interesting and fun things. Take your condescension and shove it pal.
    It is a fact that very few NCAA athletes make it into the pros in their chosen sport, so the 'wannabe' classification is accurate. The last I heard, only about five percent of college football players ever play pro and their average career length is three seasons.
    And in too many schools, the exploiters get away with letting the kids flounder in their classes and not finish those degrees. That problem is getting better, but too slowly.
    And at UNLV the academic side is still being savaged this year.
    And the Sports Empire rolls on.

  68. @GDR
    You have no idea what a ghetto is!! People who have lived in real ghetto's will tell you, their is no ghetto in Vegas. There might be a few semi bad neighborhoods here and there with a few knuckelheads hangin out but there is no ghetto. Take it from someone who has lived in a real ghetto!!

  69. I lost, engineer? Really? You lost the moment you posted here.

    I DARE you to call one of those 65 kids who don Rebel football uniforms a wannabe to their face. I'd bet gdr's paycheck they'd knock you on your prissy little behind.

    Bravo, Cowboy! Superb editing. Looks like your $20K per year job is working nicely for you. Obviously you DID get my point; your analogy is erroneous. Now pick up your shovel, there's a pile of mule dung that needs removin'.

  70. Anybody on this board could put that puss GDR on dream street. I think all he does is come on web boards to talk "ish" to people.

  71. @Grayback-

    Sorry, but $20K a year wouldn't get me to Las Vegas for a week. No, I am VERY well compensated for what I do and my investments, despite this economic climate, are paying nicely. I spend five times that on my beverage of choice in a year. Hell, I give half that much every year to two universities' athletic programs. Yep, quite a bit of which I make here. It is very satisfying. Some girls you take home to Mom, and some girls, well, you just take. Las Vegas is the latter.

    @BetOnBlack (BOB)-

    "...dream street."? Seriously, BOB? What, do you watch "Shaft" every night before bed? If you're going to get your tough talk from a movie, try watching something that was made after 1990, at the very least. Are you talkin' 'bout a play for blood? I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game... BOB. Or is it 2fitty? But I digress... anyway, BOB/ 2fitty, that's eight miles of bad road you don't want to wander down. That way, my hopelessly hopeful friend, lies damnation. "Here there be tygers."