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twitterCounty budget cuts expected, but how much?
Furloughs, buyouts and a hiring freeze aren’t likely to be enough to fill county’s budget gap
SUN PHOTO ILLUSTRATION / ISTOCK.COM PHOTO
Thursday, Nov. 12, 2009 | 2 a.m.
Sun Archives
- Pay increase is only for some under DA (11-3-2009)
- Employees get OK to switch unions — and 3% raises (10-25-2009)
- Low bidder loses out to county workforce (10-22-2009)
- Layoffs should hit ‘poorly run’ department, Collins says (10-4-2009)
- Experts to advise, provide cover, on cuts (8-30-2009)
- Union concessions split county commission, firefighters (8-4-2009)
Steve Sisolak
Chris Giunchigliani
Sun Coverage
County budget-crunchers delivered a prediction Tuesday that might spur department chiefs to look harder for ways to save money.
The county’s eye-opener was a projected budget deficit of $129 million next fiscal year, which begins July 1.
To underscore the gravity of that number, budget staff added the human element: With the average county employee earning about $90,000 annually in salary and benefits, the county would have to lay off about 1,400 of its 12,000 employees to reach $129 million.
“We are just letting them know the depth of our problem,” Don Burnette, the county’s chief administrative officer, explained after the presentation.
A few months ago County Manager Virginia Valentine had asked 38 department directors to find cuts equaling 5 percent of their budgets — and they came back in early October with an average cut of only 2.6 percent.
“They didn’t reach deep enough,” County Commission Chairman Rory Reid said at the time. “Now we’ll have to be more creative or more draconian.”
A few weeks later administrators rolled out the first cost-cutting plan to include the possible layoffs of managers. Burnette had said the county would review management jobs to see which ones can be cut, while another buyout package was offered to employees with five or more years of county employment.
None of those moves, nor the furloughs, voluntary layoffs or the current freezing of more than 600 job openings is considered to be enough to offset the ongoing decline in tax revenue. Though no one expects 1,400 or more people to lose their jobs, without a fast economic turnaround, some county employees will be laid off.
The number of layoffs, however, might be reduced if other measures, such as across-the-board salary cuts or involuntary furloughs, are instituted.
Those were some of the ideas County Commissioner Steve Sisolak tossed around Wednesday.
“I’d rather have a salary cut than my colleague lose their job,” he said.
In response to a Sun request, county staff determined that all salary increases for county employees this fiscal year will total $17.4 million by June 30, 2010, equal to about 195 jobs at the $90,000 annual salary and benefits average.
If people were afraid for their colleagues’ jobs, wouldn’t the unions have given up all salary increases when they made concessions to the county?
“In times like these,” Sisolak replied, “people’s true character comes out and we need to have some long, hard discussions about what we’re going to do.”
Sisolak plans to ask the county staff “what effect a 10 percent across-the-board cut would have.”
“And what if we furloughed everybody for two to three days a month?” he asked. “I’d like to explore those opportunities.”
Commissioner Chris Giunchigliani noted that the county can’t force the unions, which have collective bargaining agreements, to do anything.
She also said talking about upcoming deficits eight months before the start of the next fiscal year is premature. She’s a little more optimistic, saying the economy will not slide as far as some predict.
Beyond the Sun
Nevada is among the 10 states in the nation in the deepest financial hole, however, according to an analysis released Wednesday by the Pew Center on the States. And the managing director of that nonprofit Philadelphia-based think tank predicted Nevada will be the state that suffers the longest from the recession.
Giunchigliani said the county has “a lot of numbers yet to bring in and look at.”
Amber Lopez Lasater, spokeswoman for the Service Employees International Union, which represents 9,500 county employees, including 3,500 at University Medical Center, said, “With the economy in the shape it currently is, we will continue to talk with the county to reduce overhead.”
But a motion that county prosecutors filed in court on the same day the budget-crunchers were giving department heads their wake-up call exemplified the continuing difficulty the county has in getting employees to agree to concessions. Senior prosecutors won a 3 percent salary increase in court last month, but lost 4 percent raises for newer prosecutors. County administrators believe the motion is meant to get those 4 percent raises back.
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The Sun
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Thank you, Sun, for keeping this matter before the public.
Why doesn't Rory Reid include in the budget the billions in claims already being paid out by Clark County's liability carriers? Rory Reid and Tom Collins were in the depositions regarding the claims.
The deficit of $129 million is laughable. The deficit is millions more.
If you know the deficit is going to be that large next year why not start cutting costs TODAY. The deficit will be smaller if you cut NOW.
Just because money is budgeted doesn't mean you have to spend it. Stop the bleeding NOW. This isn't a tough decision, people cut back every day when they fear tomorrow will be worse. Get a clue.
Where is MR. Reid. Jr. and Sr. seem to full of ideas that aren't working, where are the solutions?
I don't care how much they cut. It is preferable to a tax increast.
dwms,
Day after day you keep posting about these "BILLIONS" being paid in lawsuits. How about posting some proof?
Unions and many Union workers care about no one but their self. They will let the public pick up the tab for higher wages and less service. They are not there to protect us, they only protect their self. It is legal racketeering.
"A few months ago County Manager Virginia Valentine had asked 38 department directors to find cuts equaling 5 percent of their budgets -- and they came back in early October with an average cut of only 2.6 percent."
Here is a great place to start, the salaries of the 38 department directors that could not follow simple instructions to come up with cuts equalling 5% of their budget.
Who in the private sector would be able to keep their jobs if they did the exact same thing?
Ridiculous!!
Fire the social workers. Close the welfare offices. Problem solved.
so lay them off!! welcome to the new america. Unions - wake up!!!
CHOP CHOP CHOP TO THE BONE & DO IT NOW!
THERE IS NOT ONE COUNTY JOB WORTH PAYING ANYONE $90,000.
Casino buffet line workers work harder than county workers.
The unions better be taking a good look at wage reductions. It's either that or they lose members.
The rest of the nation has had to forceably take a pay cut. Get over it public employees. You don't work any harder than the rest of us do, and you sure don't deserve 90K a year to do half the work the private sector employee does in the same amount of time.
Sell the city parks!
The PTB are already scheming to save their jobs by cutting children's funding, throwing little old ladies out of their homes and into the streets, and cutting wheelchair repairs for the disabled.
Don't look to far from our local Corrupted Government, our financial public resources that have been abused for years and our decline in Nevada and our overwhelming unemployment starts here in Las Vegas.
Take a look how Clark County Business Licence Department Director Jacqueline Holloway ran and continues to run CCBL, by allowing Dan Hoffman even with a most recent demotion, they continue their corrupted personal AGENDA to use public resources fill only personal gain, not the publics. So with many other employees connected within Clark County extending the ARM of Corruption all the way to The City of Las Vegas, Council Members. Local government inflated raises (transparent Nevada.com) = YES! The Right Thing To Do For Our Local Economy = NO!
A FEDERAL Outside investigation would be the best for our local community, Starting with Clark County!!!!!
If the county needs a 5% cut, they should ask the department heads for 10%. It's very similar to buying in a swap meet, raise the price and let the buyers haggle down the price and both of them go home happy and satisfied. This way the department heads, employees, and unions can all claim victory and the county gets its needed cuts.
What about the person or friend that droped the dime on Deane? Does Dan Hoffman sound familiar? And yes he still works in Clark County in a made up position in the CC business Licence Dpt. This guy has a problem with race, he likes the "N" word. Google Pride And Prejudice Dan Hoffman Las Vegas, Nv. A lot of juicy facts for those that live in Clark County. Read it and see it in Blogger.com "Once Military, Now As A Civilian". Clark County Corruption being kept from the publics EYES! Juan Rivera Prive' interview on YOU TUBE is also GOOD public information kept in the cellar closet. Check it Out.
Clark County is full of corruption but, yet the resources are to cover the wrong doings, not public interest. Abusing positions for personal gain, discriminating employees, defaming & slandering public citizens, using the "At Will" card to cover criminal actions by Clark County and much more known accounts being ignored by Clark County officials-Commissioners, Supervisors, Managers, all the top heads to cover only the factual possibility that many should be criminaly bound and charged!! I say they should give themselves up, eventually the truth WILL come out. Viva Las Vegas!
Go to www.transparentnevada.com and see for yourselves how overpaid many state and local civil service workers are, relative to us in the real world! Then tell me about how it's not possible to cut salaries across the board in Clark County and the State of Nevada!
Ironically, the City of Las Vegas was seeking public input on budget cuts.....see for yourself.....
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/nov......
One solution would be to have City of Las Vegas employees take a 5% to 10% cut in salary. Here are salaries for the City of Las Vegas.
http://transparentnevada.com/salaries/20......
Also, keep in mind, Clark County has been cutting it's budgets....especially to the Clark County School District.
Clark County employees need to take a 5% to 10% salary cut........especially the fire department
http://transparentnevada.com/salaries/20......
Citizens should start questioning these local, city and county government salaries.
Clark County and City of Las Vegas salaries in comparison to.....
President Barack Obama: $400,000 a year.
Vice President Joe Biden: $221,100 a year.
Nevada Governor Jim Gibbons: $141,000 a year.
Senator John Ensign: $193,400 a year.
Representative Shelley Berkley: $174,000 a year.
Representative Dean Heller: $174,000 a year.
Source: http://www.legistorm.com/browse_by_state......
Just information for all of you to look at. Thank you.
This is fubar from the START!
"With the average county employee earning about $90,000 annually in salary and benefits"
WTF?! Average salary of 1500 employee's is $90k? Seriously?!
I'm in the wrong line of work. Teachers and cops should be making more than government scum.
Remember when Orange Co., Cali went bankrupt in the 90's? Clark County needs to start NOW to consider going BK, so when the Union loafers making 100G refuse to negotiate, the County will be able to void their contracts, and start over. Yes, the loafers will work even slower, if that is possible, but we citizens are so used to seeing them leaning on their shovels, we'll survive. The City of Henderson should also consider BK, since the overpaid snoozers in their Tahoes and the very overpaid firemen driving their firetrucks around town in circles looking at the chickies will also refuse to renegotiate anything. Times are tough, and if the cities and counties are unable to live within their means, and try to tax John Doe to death, then this area will become an even worse sh*thole.
1400 employees to save $129 million ? Average salary $90,000. You're kidding me !! People this is a NO BRAINER.....
Average salary of $90,000, hold sheet that is a lot - Give em all a 40 percent cut (down to the average private salary) - Problem solved - Wheee Whoo I am a genius.
info4you2see ...has it right... open your eyes take a look where your TAX money is really going
This was not person bargaining with a vendor for a price. This was a boss telling an employee what to do and they didn't do it.
In the real world, if an employee only did half of what was expected, they would be fired or laid off.
It is an act of insubordination by the directors to do less than what they were asked to do.
Plain and simple.
Fire them!!!!
38 X 100,000 = 3.8 million = a great start.
Teachers and cops are "government scum" employees too.
They need to push for an immediate freeze on raises, then an emergency 10% cut in salaries/wages across the board starting with county commissioners, their staffs, and department managers -- or go with layoffs early next year. With double digit unemployment and a stagnant job market, there won't be more revenue coming in and we cannot afford more taxes. It's time to start downsizing & streamlining government functions. And I think they can do that WITHOUT significantly reducing essential services (police, fire, education, and essential aid to children & those unable to care for themselves -- though cuts in those areas are normally what they do, in an effort to generate public support for tax increases).
CC should also consider decriminalizing the production, distribution and sale of marijuana, within a tightly regulated market structure, and taxing the heck out of it. Prohibition isn't working, it's less destructive than alcohol, we're wasting law enforcement resources on trying to control what is essentially a victimless crime, and it'd pull a major source of income out from under the violent criminal organizations that smuggle other drugs & people into this country. The overall social impact would be positive. The Feds have mismanaged the War on Drugs for years, wasting countless billions & thousands of manhours. It's time for Nevada to stand on it's own and quit trying to rely on the clowns in DC to fix probelms we can fix ourselves.
We also need to crack down on the employment of illegals, at least to the point where we no longer serve as a magnet. Employers should be mandated to require a valid NV ID for employment beyond 30 days or risk a major fine. Day laborers need to be funneled into employment services with the same ID requirement -- not hanging out in parking lots or on street corners -- or risk arrest. But I would also support appropriately marked state IDs for illegals who could prove who they really are that would allow them to work within the state in the private sector but not be eligible for public services (or to vote). The Feds are incompetent when it comes to immigration policy -- it's time for the "Battle Born" state to take control of the situation as best we can and let them catch up.
Unions are typically at the root of budget problems. Seldom do they partake in any solution to budgetary shortfalls. They only care about themselves. While others have to do what is necessary to resolve their problems, unions give lip service to the public and obstruct resolution.
It is scary how truly clueless this bunch is. The solution is staring you in the face = an AVERAGE $90K in salary & benefits per employee. If the union does not want to play, you start laying off as required. There is only one way to get your costs down when 70%+ of your fixed costs are people.
Better yet, ask for stimulus cash so you can give yourself another pay raise!
We need to close and lay off a bunch of fire fighters. How many fire fighters do we really need? Then lay off about 1000 union staffers. Problem solved.
I clearly made a poor choice when I went to college for 10 years. I should have been a Firefighter in NV. http://www.transparentnevada.com/ .... Not saying that they don't put their lives on the line for me (they sure do), but wow! So many make 150k+....
Rory needs the spine to reduce these ridiculous salaries. The private sector has had 5-15% pay cuts in order to save jobs. What is so sacred about the county. Can't Clark County join the rest of us and take a pay cut or furloughs? Layoffs are the easy way out. Be a man Rory! If anyone has a spine for sale, Rory needs one real bad!
Let's see here:
The Laughlin Town Manager & her appointed staff alone rackets about $1/2 Million each year from the CC coffers, not including the cops, firefighters & countless other bureaucrats there.
The population of Laughlin is under 9,000.
Do the arithmatic! How many $$$ bureaucrats does it take to manage this small town?
Commissioner Sisolak,
Dismantle the corrupt $$$ government that Woodbury appointed & has left you with.
Also, stop ALL their $$$ Block Grants they receive under their non-profit corporation scams.
The Development Services department continues to be grossly overstaffed (300+ employees) given the lack of land development activity in Clark County. Staff admits that they have nothing to do. There is a report on their website that explains what their workload is for the current week - one set of plans or maybe a drainage study to review. Even with their recent round of layoffs, they aren't anywhere close to being "right-sized". The construction & engineering communities have reduced their staffs by 70 to 75% - the county needs to do the same.
It seems to me that Clark County is paying way too much money to its employees, in salaries and benefits. The problem, of course, in reducing those payments to balance the County's budget is employee unions.
The U.S. Bankruptcy Code contains a chapter allowing public agencies to file bankruptcy. As well established long ago in the TWA bankruptcy, debtors can use a bankruptcy proceeding to reject onerous contracts. It seems to me that Clark County's employment contracts would be prime candidates for that chopping block.
Orange County filed bankruptcy in the mid 1990's, under far more dire economic circumstances; got its house in order; survived and thrived.
The City of Vallejo, California is now in bankruptcy, in large part because its employee unions refused to take pay cuts to balance the city's budget as the economy faltered.
I sincerely suggest that the Clark County Commissioners start the process of talking to Vallejo's management, and Vallejo's bankruptcy lawyer, to find out how things are going in that case. If things a proceeding nicely, from the point of view of that city living on its actual cash flow, I believe the Orange County example provides the proper path.
To me, it would be better for the County to file bankruptcy now, before everything goes sideways rather than waiting until the 11th hour, like Vallejo did.
Thank Gawd the NEW REVOLUTION will get to these crooked & evil people!
The County could put an ad in the payer for a $20 dollar an hour Fire Chief & $15 an hour Firefighters and there would be 100% QUALIFIED applicants lined up a miles long!
The good news is that it is easy to see where cuts in bloated salaries could ease the budgetary crisis. It is also evident that discontent with the current level of salaries is widespread. Rory Reed, Steve Sisolek and other commissioners, are you listening?
As an unemployed Las Vegan, with excellent credentials, I would be thrilled to work for even half of the "average" county wage currently paid. The present situation is way out-of-control.
Average? Discount the management and recalculate. More like 30,000, cash money.
.
..
... -------15,555 Clark County Employees------...
...Average cost to taxpayers...45,943 dollars
...Total cost to taxpayers...714,651,380 dollars
...D. Gainer...Fire Battalion Chief...$643,511.82
...F. Walch...Fire Captain...$535,754.46
...R. Tentin...Assist. Dist Attorney..$447,788.49
...R. Grabera...Attorney IV...$433,771.25
...C. Short...Court Executive Officer.$423,484.12
...R. Weed...Attorney IV...$400,708.90
...B. O'Bamma..United States President..$400,000
............Hmmmmmmmm...??????.....
I debated whether to even read the nonsense that would follow the article. It is truly sad how totally and completely ignorant people can be...
and that they INSIST on sharing their ignorance with all. With malice aforethought.
CynicalObserver and I agree on the idea of pursuing BK to get rid of the overpaid Union loafers excessive pay and benefits. Sadly, however, the makeup of the CC Commission is mainly comprised of spineless Democrats who will never make decisions based on their constituents, just on their own re-election. Reid, Sisolak, and Collins are Union whores. Weekly is more concerned about minority rights. The only hope is Chris G and Brown. Brager? Who knows? Such a sorry bunch of pols. Money talks, and the Unions provide. A sad state of affairs...
.
..
...The above doesn't mention pension contributions as many public employees have private plans paid by YOU the taxpayer and these public employees don't pay into Social Security while we are told that SS will go broke in a decade or two due to dwindling contributions and higher payouts.
...Meanwhile it takes twice the time to cross the Border after a weekend in Baja, twice the time to get serviced at DMV's new office on Decatur and a crunching hour of phone tag with the lone unemployment number for benefits.
...Many public employees servicing the citizen have an almost belligerent altitude as we are the scum of the earth. The media jumps behind the police departments, Border Patrol, Drug Enforcement, and Military for increased numbers for their agencies and the citizen is crawling up the wall trying to get basic services for themselves and families.
...What is the answer..???
You are taking your money to the neighbour county ? People don't like the Vegas nowadays. How are you tackling the budget holes..
If you don't have the money, then the price is too high. With no disrespect for public employees, of which I was once one, in a different region of the country, and paid much less. $90,000 is a lot of money, even factoring in retirement costs, health benefits etc. This is not a new problem, it has been building up, and the recession is bringing it to a head. Cuts could spare the lowest paid employees and be progressively higher toward the top.
Salary surveys used to determine these wages often look phony, based on what is paid in the private sector, especially when you consider that fewer private sector jobs include such generous pension benefits, vacation and sick leave and often less adequate health care benefits.
Public employees should share the downside of this recession, especially when considering who is forced to pay their wages, often people who have been laid off, downsized working fewer hours or lesser jobs just to survive. The local job scene is just plain ugly, and the county would have no difficulty recruiting replacement workers at much lower wages.
I don't like dealing with the downturn as business is tough. BUT it sure does give me a warm feeling to know these so called leaders will HAVE TO do something and that they are finally starting to feel the recession.
I think that is a darn nice looking T-bone.
you guys sound resentful; do you think the next yahoo you elect for office is gonna change a thing? i doubt it. pass a constitutional amendment to abolish the current form of self-government and start all over.
Q -- How many people work in Clark county government?
A -- about half of them (maybe).
How many have ever been to a County Comission meeting?
Participation is how to change local government.
They should rename Clark County as CROOK COUNTY.
The salary & benefits is very misleading. While the figure does include the salary, it also includes the government's portion of health, life, retirement, etc. If the average salary& benefits is $90,000, then the actual salary is $50,000 to 60,000.
To the comment: "We need to close and lay off a bunch of fire fighters. How many fire fighters do we really need? Then lay off about 1000 union staffers. Problem solved." If your suggestion comes to pass how will you react when your house is burning down or you have a heart-attack or you're in a bad auto accident and the response by firefighters takes 10 minutes instead of 3 minutes due to lack of staffing. You will be the first one screaming at the local government demanding to know why the response time was so slow.
These shortfalls in budgets are happening all over the country. It was nothing that any agency could have predicted. The banking industry was on the brink of collapse and the bad economy resulted in layoffs. When people lose their jobs, they can't "Shop till they drop" or go on vacation to Las Vegas. The result of the bad economy was less sales tax revenue for local government agencies, less property taxes received. Local governments depend on these two sources of income. All government agencies across the country are cutting back on expenditures, but they trying to maintain proper service levels.
Clark County Social Service workers are the ones who are on public welfare. And so are all the other government employees.
Make public employees unions illegal. Those who work for us, to protect and serve us, ought not to earn more than us.
We should be telling them what to do, they shouldn't be telling us what to do.
We are the boss, they are the servants.
Maximum salary for any government worker, $10,000 per year, pay your own retirement, health insurance, vacation. No holidays off. Earn servants pay. (Just like we do!)
Make our fire departments an all-volunteer fire department. Rarely are there any serious fires in Vegas. Mostly car accidents. And shopping for groceries in fire trucks.
Sell all public-owned property used as businesses, such as golf courses.
No personal vehicles or gas for government workers. Pay your own way just like the rest of us do. No exception, no excuses!
Close down UMC and all UMC Quick Care. Government ought not be in business, hospital or otherwise.
Close down all county-run non-profit organizations. Government ought not be in NP.
Fire the 38 county managers who could not perform a simple task with extended time to do so.
Get mad and mean, people. Get dog-gone, plum mad mean. NO UNION FOR PUBLIC EMPLOYEES!
TAXPAYER REVOLT!
(Now, with this done, we have a huge surplus! How shall we spend it?)
What difference does it make rather the firefighters take 10 minutes or 3 minutes to arrive?
The average wait in the county-owned UMC emergency room is often up to 16 HOURS.
Go all volunteer firefighter.
When they say that the average cut was 2.6%, do they mean that the dollar amount of total cuts divided by total budget = 2.6%, or do they mean that they took the percentages for each department and they averaged 2.6%
For example:
Department A has a $1,000,000 budget and cuts $70,000. Their budget cut is 7%.
Department B and department C each have budgets of $50,000. They each cut their budgets by $250, or 0.5%
The average budget cut for the three agencies (average of 7.0, 0.5 and 0.5) is 2.66%.
However, the total dollar cuts, $70,500, divided by the total budgets, $1,100,000, gives a budget cut of 6.41%. Very different.
So, what does the 2.6% quoted in the story represent? There are big departments and small departments in the county. Some have come up with budgets cuts well above the 5% requested. One department came up with a 13% cut, and others cut by around 10%. Other departments made small cuts. Just averaging the percentages themselves wouldn't be meaningful in total.
Just curious.
Most, if not all of these comments are absurd and unfounded.
What a bunch of haters you all are. All of you seem to think that County workers are exempt from paying taxes and that you pay their salaries. News Flash, county workers pay taxes too.
Not one of you sound like you ever worked for the County or even know anyone who does or has. Comments like less than half the county employees really don't do any work. And you know that how Einstein, get over your jealousy. Just because you do not have what it takes to get a good-paying job with great benefits don't blame these folks. Tell that to one of the Court Clerks -- one of the busiest, demanding jobs in the County. LOL, you really are a moron so you will never get hired at the County.
$20 for a Fire Chief and $15 for a fireman. What an idiot you are". Just because you are so uneducated and would work for a fraction of your worth, don't expect others to sell themselves out. No wonder you envious, you do not have what it takes to earn that kind of salary. Shape up Tonto!
$50,000 is a realistic number for an average County worker and it probably took them at least 10 years to get there. They worked hard for it and deserve every penny of it. Get your facts straight Rainman!
Just replace county workers will lower paid workers. How disgusting is that. So these folks dedicate 10 15, 20, 30 years of their life to a job and just toss them for someone who will work for less. Maybe they will, but they will not have the expertise a person with that kind of tenure has. Don't start a business of your own; you are doomed to fail with that kind of short sighted thinking Tom Thumb.
Cut County worker salaries by 40%. Another idiot in the bunch. You obviously have nothing of significance to offer any employer, no wonder you would work for 40% less than you are worth. Your self esteem needs some work pumpkin!
Pay County workers the same wages and other servants get paid. Surely you cannot be that stupid! Just because you can only demand $7 per hour, do not expect highly educated/qualified folks to work for that. Pony up and have something to offer your employer and you will earn more than $7 per hour Mr. I'll work for nothing because I believe I'm worth nothing.
Many county employees are overpaid - fix it and we are well on our way to fixing the budget.
I have in the past looked regularly at job listings, including Monster, RJ, etc. and at the County's listings, and the County salaries average 25%+ above comparable private sector jobs, plus all the benefits. Sorry but with all the benefits county employees get there is no reason they should also be paid more than a comparable private sector job.
If you think about the 75% pensions that are also paid out it gets even more irritating. That is really going to hurt the budget in the future. With Nevada's massive growth over the last decade it cannot continue to operate like this.
You fell for the bait, Getagrip.
We proved our point and let you speak.
We are so uneducated. We are hate mongers.
It is you, the beachball with two arms who has been treating the public with disrespect.
You worked so hard doing what a tenth grader could do.
You got you minority grants for student enrollment. You got everything on a silver plater that other people paid for, yet you can not speak to people in a rational manner. You are the one filled with hate and rage.
You think you are better than the rest of us, but you are not and your game will be over soon.
The people will no longer tolerate your being on welfare at our expense. Game over!
Did we say $7 an hour? Oh, our math comes to $5. $7 is way too much, you are not worth that.
Women working for minimum wage at mini-markets getting killed by robbers work harder that you ever will. And they are smarter too.
Go ahead, keep treating the public like dirt.
Keep putting us down like we are the trash you welfare collector.
I'd have to say KathleenEmily's post had the most truth in it.
Getagrip - Get a grip.
People with 10, 15, 20, 24 years in to private sector jobs get tossed out all the time for cheaper workers. And you know what , they will be able to hire 2 less experienced workers for the price of one and make them compete with each other to keep their jobs.
So what you are really saying is that the job security that they have won through collective baragaining (Unions) is way better than anyone in the private sector that is PAYING their salaries. The fact that they pay federal tax and sales/ property taxes means absolutely nothing. Everybody pays these taxes.
Right now is exactly the time to fire and layoff workers because there is not enough money. Hire cheaper "temp" workers with no bennies or pension to take their place and let the games begin in the public sector that way they have been played in the private sector.
Bust all the unions, not just the trade unions.
I remember earlier in the decade when a engineer friend of mine took a job at the County and was mocked by his professional friends for taking the steady, but lower, paycheck with the great benefits and retirement from the County over the higher paying, short term incentive-laden jobs from the fly-by-night development companies who no longer exist.
It was stupid in 2002 for people to opt for the long term security at the County, but those professional friends of my buddy sure aren't mocking him now.....
This isn't that simple. Most of these gov employees negotiated contracts that need to be honored. Thus, the gov is going to raise taxes to come up with the money they need to pay these overpaid people. What part of this do you people not understand? The gov is like a big fat blob that just gets bigger and bigger, eating everything in it's way to feed it's insatiable appetite. The only way to downsize gov is to vote for fiscally conservative politicians. Good luck, given many areas of town are over-run by blacks and illegals, and they'll always vote for the politicians who promise them the most welfare.
LV, prepare for higher property taxes, a higher sales tax, higher business taxes, and maybe even a new state income tax. Too many poor people these days, wealth distribution coming to a neighborhood near you soon.
Getagrip is probably a court clerk by the way she says that job is tough work. Oh yes, shuffling paper work is tough and sitting there in the court room for 8 hours is down right tough. Getagrip better get back to work and stop using the internet on taxpayers dime.
Let's see, getagrip's post is timestamped at 8:19 pm. Burritobandit remarks about using the Internet on taxpayer's dime. Is anybody surprised that Burritobandit can't even tell time?
I don't mind massive layoffs of county employees as long as basic public safety services are maintained at present levels (police, fire, road, etc). Paper shufflers with nothing to do, including management, ought to be let go for now.
Why is it that those who post rebuttals to others posts give their opinions as to the intelligence of the original poster, but do not offer a solution or even a suggestion of a solution.
If that is all you are here for is to sit in judgement of others who post you are just part of the problem.
Try offering a solution once in a while. If you are so smart - show us.
As you can see by the sheer NUMBER of responses to this article, $90,000 a year that the county admits to is WAY too much to pay the average worker.
Government is so inefficient on all levels that we as citizens should insist on cutting it back and doing more for ourselves some other way !!!
I agree that the salaries cant be cut because of the union contracts, but there sure can be layoffs and wholesale dismantling of departments. What is so sacred about public jobs when private ones are being lose by the hundreds of thousands a month??
This an eye opener....besides Nevada......44 states report budget shortfalls.
http://bobscorner.tumblr.com/post/996566...
well, Louise, I did show that I can tell time. If getagrip was posting after 8 pm, them the comment about posting on the taxpayer's dime really was absurd. That said, the entire tone of getagrip's post was completely improper also.
Seriously, there are times when it is appropriate to look at who is posting. DWMS, Burritobandit and others are individuals whose whole lives seem to revolve around attacking other people. It wouldn't matter if this article is about the county government or a private sector industry like a bank or an insurance company. Certain posters here would be glued to their computers typing "they're all evil! fire them all!". It's just the nature of the internet that any public forum will have constant posts from certain people who try to give meaning to their lives by attacking other people. Just look at the amount of bile and insults in the above posts. Comments about setting a maximum salary of $10,000, or about how "half" of all workers are supposedly lazy or uncaring, are so absurd that they add no value.
That's not to say that anybody who is concerned about salaries or budgets is wrong-headed. Far from it. But who is actually offering a realistic plan, one that refrains from pointless personal attacks, and refrains from attcking the integrity of the many dedicated, hard-working people at Clark County?
In other words, let's see some real content. Let's see some real world suggestions on what to do. Let's cut out the attacks and stick to the issues.
Department heads were told to come up with 5% cuts in their departments. Not 2.6%, not 7% not any other number but 5%. If these high paid department heads cannot follow the most basic of instructions, they need to be let go. It would send an important message to all county employees that they are expected to do exaclty what they are asked to do. No more, no less.
Simple.
There is a solution.
Even unions cannot protect a job that is eliminated due to lack of money or need.
America is an "at will" based labor market.
3 cheers for grandmaCrabby!!! Talking common sense. So refreshing.
GrandmaCrabby shouldn't you look in the mirror?
Retirement from the county is good, no?
You have posted 143 comments, under GrandmaCrabby. When you post to this one that will make 144. But if you do the forensic science, you will see a pattern similar to other posts, such as the use of the word "absurd" coming from the same smoking gun.
Meaning you apparently post under several names.
"Comments about setting a maximum salary of $10,000... are so absurd they add no value"
That is my comment and I justify it by the witness of the corrupt system of Clark County Social Service workers and other government employees.
People who have worked their entire lives and paid into the system, and then lost their jobs, their homes, their cars and all of their assets and then go to the county for help and get a $400 a month rent voucher for three months and forced to live two in a room with complete strangers and a house of 8-9 strangers, and treated worst than being in a rattlesnake pit by social workers and then at the state for a lousy $150 in food stamps, nothing else.
The $550 dollar amount is not the issue, its the treatment by social workers that treat you like scum, that is the issue. And yes, Granny, all day long while waiting at these county and state offices you see all the public employees using the phones to talk to friends and family and use the computers to play games. Then they treat us like dirt.
Are all government people, evil? NO! Some are caring and really try to help you.
But the rest stand behind the shield of union protection and bite your head off while you are at the lowest point in your life.
Why an army of rude security people to protect you? Why all the signs posted and need to sign "Conduct" statements warning if you mistreat a social worker you will be arrested and jailed, when it is YOU the government worker who mistreats the PUBLIC?
People are fed up with it and they are expressing their First Amendment rights to speak out about the abuse of public servants.
Enjoy your taxpayer paid county retirement Granny!
gmag39 = 1259 posts. Government employees and retirees unite against the people.
dirty...
that's over a period of YEARS, dude. not that it matters... HEY! Here's an idea for ya.
Get yourself some edge yoo kay shun. You obviously need it. And thank God, I am quite certain you are NOT representative of "The People."
Just a certain "type" of people; Mean, nasty, and none too bright.
OK, here's # 144:
No, I don't post under any other name than "GrandmaCrabby". The fact that other people use the word "absurd" is hardly a "smoking gun".
#2: You really think you can get a qualified computer programmer for $10,000 per year? You really think you can get qualified health care professionals for $10,000 per year? If you were in an automobile accident and you were admitted to Intensive Care, you'd be comfortable with the fact that all health care professionals at UMC had been let go and that you were now in the hands of $10,000 per year replacements? When debt proceeds funds need to be invested for maximum safety of principal and maximum interest yield, you'd put those investments in the hands of $10,000 per year replacement workers?
Sorry, but "absurd" is the proper term for those thoughts.
I do appreciate you acknowledging that there are caring people at the County. That's a start. Now, if we can keep elevating the level of discourse and stick to the real issues, we'll be making progress.
And PS: I'm already retired, but not from Clark County. I am, however enjoying my retirement, funded by my contributions during my long-time employment back east. Thanks for your good wishes.
Federal stimulus money is being used to save state, county and city government jobs by covering budget shortfalls in each state.
A report by the Center for Economic and Policy Research says that state and local budget deficits to the tune of $100 billion a year will offset the stimulative effect of the president's American Recovery and Reinvestment Act.
Stimulus dollars used to cover deficits will have no stimulative effect, and the benefit of stimulus money well-spent will be offset if states increase taxes or decrease spending to close budget gaps, the report says.
SOURCE:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/04.........
Do a Google search on "stimulus state budget shortfalls". Here is more info:
SOURCE:
http://bobscorner.tumblr.com/post/996566...............
Georgia- State budget shortfall eliminated by cutting $1.5 billion in programs and using $1.3 billion in federal stimulus funds.
Idaho-Governor proposes to use federal stimulus funds to offset state budget shortfall.
Indiana - Senate uses $823 million in federal stimulus funds to eliminate state budget shortfall.
Louisiana- Governor uses federal stimulus funds to partially cover state budget shortfall.
Maryland --Passes budget that cuts $866 million and uses $1.5 billion in federal stimulus funds. State still expects a $1 billion state budget shortfall next year.
New York -Governor proposes to eliminate $17 billion state budget shortfall with new taxes, fees and use of federal stimulus funds.
Oklahoma-Federal stimulus funds will help solve $900 million state budget shortfall.
Tennessee -Governor uses federal stimulus funds to mitigate state budget shortfall.
Virginia--$3.7 billion State budget shortfall eliminated by use of $1.6 billion in federal stimulus funs; $1.1 billion in cuts; and other measures.
Washington --Democrat Legislators plan to eliminate $9.3 billion state budget shortfall by taxes, fees, use of pension funds; budget cuts, accounting gimmicks, and use of federal stimulus money.
-do you see a threat cutting salaries ? Yes I see. If you cut all, what is left. One county less, where do these human characters move to live.
gc -- where are your posts on this subject that offer anything other than criticism? Did I miss one?
Please enlighten me.
How about some suggestions? I have offered mine.
One cannot expect behaviour to change if the wrong type of behaviour is rewarded and even encouraged.
If one expects people to act responsibly then one must encourage responsible behaviour.
This is the most rudimentary of rules in childhood and social development.
Our elected officials should have held these department managers and the county manager responsible for NOT doing what they were told to do.
It is that simple.
The next obvious step is for the voters to hold the county comission responsible for their behaviour.
Yes, you did miss one. My very first post. The gist of the post is that we need to get the numbers straight. We're making some awfully big generalizations based on very little information.
I have no direct knowledge of the County's budget process. I have not seen the document to which the story refers. But I have seen some information (admittedly isolated, incomplete and second-hand) which does not support the thrust of the story and the comments. I do know that some departments have gone above and beyond, and have come up with budget cuts significantly higher than 5%. I know that several other departments have come up with budget cuts right around 5%. Therefore any comments about firing all of the 30+ administrators are off base because many of them have done exactly what they were requested to do. Others, of course, have not
Beyond that, I think we all need more information. I'd like to see more detailed, concrete information from someone at the County who does know the facts and figures, and who knows where we are in the process. Perhaps the reporter could do a follow up. I hope so. He seems to be on top of the story.
My subsequent posts, while critical, have something essentially productive in them. What I am saying is, stop the personal attacks, stop the unfounded generalizations, and focus on the issues. That is absolutely neccessary in order to have a productive discussion. When I say that the attacks in this forum serve no useful purpose, I mean just that. You can't have a clear-headed discussion until people stop screaming insults.
Yeah, I saw that and it was not a solution, it was a question.
Can we agree then, that those who did not do what they were told to do are part of the problem?
5%, what part of that do they not understand?
Can anyone reasonably expect anything other than criticism when a perception exists that others are being paid a lot of money without getting anything of real value for that money?
Follow instructions. Is that so hard to do?
It is all about one thing "GREED"
It should be more --AX THEM ALL-
90k for a bunch of incompetent blowhards
Start over and hire with the RIGHT Pay scale--according to qualifications and past job PERFORMANCE!!
KEEP THE OVERPRICED DO NOTHING UNIONS OUT OF IT
If anyone deserves that kind of money its nurses,teachers--people who perform a thankless COMPETENT JOB -Not DEADBEAT paper pushes with no performance record
Politicians are busy with their campaigns for 2010.
Watch this promo for Harry Reid.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/early-l...
Yes mutt, to find solutions you start by asking questions. Novel concept, eh?
No, I would not agree that department heads who didn't meet the 5% are part of the problem. If their hands are tied by union contracts, they can't just unilaterally decide to act illegally and outside the contracts. But to find that out, we'd have to ask questions, wouldn't we, instead of just making blanket assumptions without the facts.
And at no time have you proven in any way that we're not getting value or proven that people aren't performing. All you have offered is an attitude.
I was not the one who asked them to cut their budgets by 5%? Our elected officials are the ones who asked? If the commissioners feel that there is enough waste in every department to warrant a possible 5% cut, then who am I to question it? They have, after all, been dealing with the budget items in a "hands on" capacity every meeting? They should know?
Do you only seem to talk about the labor aspect of the budget? Can it be something as simple as re-using file folders or making sure that work is being performed in the most effective manner such as preventive maintanence etc.? Do you suggest that there is not enough room for a 5% improvement in productivity and in wise use of materials? Would this mean that our county government is running at 100% efficiency? Is that the case and is that even possible?
Do you make some kind of misinformed assumption that "their hands are tied", thereby making an excuse for them?
Are you an enabler?
Once again no solution?
Is that enough questions?
I stand by my statement that those who did not do as they were told and find a way to cut their budget by 5% did not do their job. There is no excuse.
Keep on trucking folks, your jealousy, ignorance and hatred will get you far in life I'm sure. Just as far as you have gotten by coveting the jobs of others you cannot get for yourself.
Pattycakes, stop wasting your time in the private sector. They do not pay and offer lousy benefits and can fire you because they do not like your hat. Hence the reason for a union to protect the workers from be treating unfairly.
DirtyHarry357, your name suits you. I fell for nothing, I'm self-employed, LOL! You will never know what my education level is or what my capabilities are and its fun to keep you guessing. Keep throwing hateballs if that makes you feel better. What you say is laughable, I'm still laughing - you have no idea what you are talking about do you.....
Dear Destruct_Mutt, Hmmm!
You say people with 10, 15, 20, 24 years in to private sector jobs get tossed out all the time for cheaper workers. Just because the private sector gets away with that and does that to you, everyone else should be sheep following on a path to no where?
Collective bargaining is a great tool and yes, everyone pays taxes even the "Evil" County workers.
The way you think is like the "sick chicken mentality" and mobbing. Lets peck the eyes out of the vulnerable one. Who do you think helped build this great city, news flash, City and County workers. Most of you do not have a clue how hard folks work and the volunteer work that they do in the community. The attacks on these hard working folks is really shameful.
Bust all the unions, not just the trade unions Destructmutt, now your scareing me and revealing just how little you really know about any of this.
BurrittoBandit2, I do not work until 8:30 pm, this is my business computer as I am self-employed. LOL. I know lots of court clerks and since you cannot tell time you would not be elgible for a job there. You also like to accuse people of doing nothing and shuffling paper. See if you can take a tour with a court clerk for one day and it will blow your hair back how hard they work and at lightening speed. Your and idiot at best!
Dear Afveteran:
Awe, how sweet of you that you don't mind massive layoffs. What a creep! These folks have families to feed. What a horribly ignorant and shameless attitude you have. Clearly you are not qualified to get a job at the County and are just bitter and unable to be happy for these folks. You call them paper shufflers with nothing to do, including management. You know this how? By sitting at your computer writing falsehoods about people you don't even know. You are pathetic!
geezelouise,
You want ideas. How about getting off the backs of hard working city and county workers. The slandering of these folks makes me sick and it is done by people who know nothing about it.
My ideas have been submitted to the County -- I had no intention of sharing those in this type of venue. I'm responding merely due to the disgust I feel when I see how jealousy, hatred, accusations, casting doubt, etc. seems to feeding these people. It is really sick and pathetic to attack folks you do not even know no matter where they work.
Brad, lighten up on the crack, it's really clouding your ability to think reasonably.
City and County employees do little building of anything. They maintain what was built by other people.
Bust all the unions. I remember a time when admission of belonging to a trade union was like admission of belonging to a satanist cult.(sorry satanists)I would say that some healthy competition would better help to establish the true and reasonable labor prices for the different levels of Gubment work. (You know kinda like what the illegals have done for the trade unions) The Gubment failed to protect private sector worker's rights but are completely committed to E-verify when it comes to Gubment workers.
It is not completely unrealistic to expect the unions to offer concessions given the times and the economy. Did anyone bother to ask?
Just as a comparison. GM had to fire their CEO and the UAW had to come up with some pretty hefty concessions to get the Gubment money. GM also had to come up with real suggestions on how to bring all their units in line with what the Gubment regulators felt were reasonable. Now these Gubment regulators were not in the auto business, but they recognize a real effort from a half ------- attempt at the task.
As far as "job security" is concerned, that left when they broke up the telephone monopoly and when "Big Blue" no longer had the overwhelming market share in business machines.
Enough of the side distractions and the "smoke and mirrors" on this issue.
The main focus of this article is:
Budget cuts in each department were supposed to be 5% and ended up only being 2.6%. This is all that was asked and all that was expected and there are some department heads that obviously didn't do what they were supposed to do. This is the focus of the story. Now if you feel that it is somehow unfair or a "sick chicken mentality" to point out the obvious then let the pecking begin.
"They didn't reach deep enough," County Commission Chairman Rory Reid said at the time. "Now we'll have to be more creative or more draconian."
What else is there to say?
Getagrip,
Get a grip. Just exactly where did I "get on the backs of the hard working city and county employees"?
Although I do think they are overpaid for the job they do, and from my observations in dealings with county and city government offices, they wouldn't make it in the private sector. Forget about it. They even walk slow. There is no sense of urgency, and regardless of the office, they have completely forgotten who pays them.
Courtesy for the most part is not even a word they know how to spell.
I have had some positive dealings with city/county offices, but they are few and far between.
So, you go right ahead and prove to us all that these poor unfortunate people actually deserve that 90K salary, OK?
No mutt, that's not enough questions. Here's some you missed:
For the minority of departments which did not come up with 5% budget cuts, what percent of the budget is made up of salaries and benefits?
Are those salaries and benefits in any way subject to being lowered? (Almost certainly no, due to union contracts)
What would be the effect of layoffs?
Would layoffs result in a threat to public safety?
By the way, putting a question mark at the end of a declarative statement doesn't make it a question. It means you used incorrect punctuation.
By the way, Louise, you're making a mistake that has been made several times in comments here. It's not $90K salary. It's $90K salary and benefits. To compare to private sector, you'd have to include benefits on private sector too. Actual salary is less.
Wouldn't say it is divorce of the union contracts, more closely rearranging union contracts. What would you do to cut county budget ?. Help generally speaking to save, and without insulting the whole system (county), help selling all unnecessary. I think its hard to make a choice, cannot see what should be done. Nothing done, nothing gained.
Dutch know how to do it.
County budget crunchers, change the country for a moment and see "blocking" out collapse.
GC - I know that my posts are long but I don't have lots of big words in them. The one after getagrip covers most of the "questions" you raise.
I stand by my statement.
The department heads have sold out their own people by leaving the cuts up to the comissioners. Who will use "Draconian" measures which translates to people costs instead of materials or other costs. It is a total lack of responsibility for the department heads to leave it up to someone else to cut their budgets.
No "partnering", no asking the actual workers (or unions) to see if there are any ways to save money or be more productive in their jobs, instead they have sold them out and saved their own skin.
When it all comes down. They will be telling their department employees, "Sorry, it was beyond my control, I have to let you go."
It's irresponsible.
As far as services being cut, in real life, when the money runs out, people go without.
Or they go Bankrupt.?
I wouldn't be surprised at all to see other Municipality file for Chapter 11 protection. Boulder City being the number one candidate. They simply have no way to pay the massive debt accrued over the last 10 years. They have entered into large leases of land with mainly one company for solar deals. If one fails, that will be the end for BC. They took a big gamble, and maybe it will pay off. My bet is it won't. This will result in Boulder City being swallowed up by Henderson, unless of course Henderson goes into 11 also. Could be a interesting several years coming up for Southern Nevada.
actually mutt, the one after getagrip didn't answer a single question I raised.
And: there have been attempts to partner with unions and in some cases concessions were made.
And: Nobody is leaving it up to somebody else to cut their budgets. The department heads who didn't meet the 5% are being asked to come up with further cuts.
And: people can choose to go without luxuries but I doubt anybody wants to go without a fire department if their house is on fire. Or go without medical care if they have a heart attack. And so on. (Hence my question about whether cuts would endanger public safety).
For all your words you haven't proposed a single real solution. Just a lot of "everybody stinks but me, fire everybody" bile.
Yeah, I'm mean. You gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. I gotta get mean because we have a mayor who is mean. He's the meanest mayor in the universe. And he likes that title. He's mean to people who can't defend themselves, so I'm meaner that he his. Plumb, mad-dog mean!
Now Granny and Getagrip love to call the rest of us haters and name callers, but if you read their comment posts, you'll see they are full of hate and call lots of people names. That's a call to get mean, plumb mad-dog mean!
And, Getagrip, do you report to the IRS the personal use and personal time on your "business computer"? And just what business are you in, which you are talking about, vendor for the government, right?
And last, I'm sorry, both Granny and Getagrip are so right. We all need job security and we all ought to be pro labor (that's what's baffling about LooseGrip), no matter what our education level is. We all should stop protesting the government workers lousy pay. We all should surrender our rights to speak. We all should support the hard-working county workers in their unique service to the people. We all should think the county workers are under paid and over worked and work so much harder for so much less than the private sector. And, we can only have that if we all become communists.
Achieving all of that, becoming communists, is the solution to the problem. Oh, wow, they'll be so happy now that we offered solutions to the problem!
Well, other than the fact that you completely misrepresented what I said, you did a fine job, Harry. Let's see, I never said a word about job security, I never said a word about supporting the unions.....
What I did say is stop throwing insults, stick to the issues, look at what's really happening, and offer realistic solutions. And you make the leap to communism. Hmm, maybe there's a problem there.
I guess I'm a hater because I say it's "absurd" to think that a $10,000 per year replacement worker could step in as a computer programmer, health care professional, accountant or investment professional.
I guess I'm a hater because I point out that $90,000 is NOT the average salary for a County worker. It's total of salary and benefits. And keep in mind, that number is skewed by the highest paying jobs for top administrators, and high-paying areas such as Fire. I guarantee you, the rank and file County workers that we deal with at the various bureaus aren't making anywhere near that misleading $90k figure. Their actual salaries are probably half of that.
And I guess I'm a hater for pointing out that the great majority of departments did submit budget proposals that met the 5% target.
But hey, who needs thought, analysis and realism. It's so much more rewarding to demonize people we don't know and scream "fire them all".
But pardon me if I stick to the facts.
I pose an answer to the many comments on what the 2.6% budget cuts presented by department heads actually represents-one poster on this board got really close to the most logical answer.
Many department heads presented budget cut options over 10-15%, but some departments could not get close to 5% since their employees and programs are funded by state or federal programs (not within their means to cut).
So it's back to the drawing board. Would love to see some comments with creative solutions to this huge problem.
Thank you.