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twitterRon Kantowski:
A venue for all types of pros
Even if a big corporation does build an arena downtown, that’s no reason to pursue a sports team. Is it, Mayor?
Chris Morris
Thursday, Nov. 5, 2009 | 2 a.m.
Oscar Goodman
In Today's Sun
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One more reason why I love Las Vegas: I can get the mayor on the phone even when I don’t leave a message.
When I wrote that Mayor Oscar Goodman should wear a fake nose and glasses the next time he talks about this group or that group building a new downtown sports arena lest we take him seriously, I expected him to chuckle. Because whereas the mayor knows I love him, he also knows that has never stopped me from cracking wise at his expense.
I didn’t really expect him to call, however.
“So tell me, are you a betting man?” Mayor Goodman asked.
“No, Mayor, not really.” The last bet I made was when a pal with “inside information” told me to dig into the couch cushions for everything I had and put it on Frank Tate against Michael Nunn in their 1988 boxing match. That cured me of becoming a gambling man. That said, I told the mayor I had a feeling I was about to become one again.
Right, he said.
The mayor wanted to wager we will have a downtown sports arena within four years.
Upon learning I am a beer drinker, Mayor Goodman said he would put up a case of Yuengling, Philadelphia’s finest, to prove that whereas his intuition about these arena projects has been wrong before, it’s right this time.
I, of course, agreed to put up the usual fifth of Bombay Sapphire gin the mayor requires to get out of bed in the morning. (Actually, I think I will put up the biggest bottle I can find/afford at Lee’s Discount Liquor, if for no other reason than the mayor has always been such a good sport when I crack wise at his expense.)
The mayor told me The Cordish Companies, a real estate developer based in Baltimore that has developed the entertainment district around the new Sprint Center in Kansas City (among others), is the real deal. As real as hotels on Boardwalk. He said REI Neon, which was going to build the last downtown arena and entertainment district, was not the real deal. A couple of houses on Baltic Avenue, as it were.
The mayor said he had said that all along. I was at that council meeting with the REI Neon folks. I must have gone to feed the meter in the parking garage when he said that.
The mayor thought I would agree that if we build it, they — a pro sports franchise looking to hold somebody for ransom over a better lease deal or worse, an expansion team — might come.
I told him that if we build it, we shouldn’t give one hoot if the NBA or NHL comes.
In other words, I stand by what I wrote in 2007: That if somebody coughs up $500 million in a sluggish economy to build a new sports arena in downtown Las Vegas, we/they/it shouldn’t monopolize it with 41 home games featuring the decrepit Las Vegas Kings, formerly of Sacramento, unless they could work a deal to play the Lakers 41 times.
Guys such as Daren Libonati, who runs the Thomas & Mack Center and Sam Boyd Stadium, and Pat Christenson, who used to have those jobs before moving on to head Las Vegas Events, have been telling me for years that instead of limiting ourselves to a series of meaningless Las Vegas Kings vs. Oklahoma City Thunder or Memphis Grizzlies games, Las Vegas would be better served by building an arena for the kind of special events that have always packed ’em in here, even on a Tuesday night in December.
We’re talking U2, talking Springsteen, talking The Stones. We’re talking, really loud now, the National Finals Rodeo and Manny Pacquiao and the UFC and Supercross motorcycles and Billy Joel and John Cena and his pro wrestling pals and guys from Brazil who jump over stuff on horses and Garth Brooks and every all-star game we can lay our hands on. Or Madonna.
We’re not talking the Las Vegas Kings of the NBA or the Las Vegas Coyotes of the NHL.
Yeah, I know most of those mentioned already play here. But could you imagine an entire weekend of U2 shows, with corporate types paying great sums of money to watch from actual luxury suites with actual restrooms? Promoters wouldn’t be handcuffed by fitting in Bono and The Edge when the UNLV football or basketball team is on the road.
This isn’t some crazy, outside-the-box thinking, although Libonati can be pretty persuasive while serving the Kool-Aid. Even Mayor Goodman says a downtown Las Vegas arena would be successful with or without a pro sports tenant. Not that I don’t trust the mayor, but there are facts to prove the latter point.
Through the third quarter of the year, seven of the top 10 arenas in the world in number of seats sold do not have a full-time pro sports tenant, or at least the equivalent of one of ours. Seven of the 10 — The 02 in London, the Manchester Evening News Arena in England, the 02 in Dublin, Sportpaleis Antwerpen in Belgium, the Bell Centre in Montreal, Arena Monterrey in Mexico and Wembley Arena in England — are not in the United States.
The only American arenas listed among the top 10 in tickets sold are Madison Square Garden, Phillips Arena in Atlanta and the new Sprint Center in Kansas City.
The Sprint Center is the one worth looking at. It has sold the ninth-most tickets heading into the final three months of the year despite not having an NBA or NHL tenant.
In 2009 the Sprint Center has hosted sold-out concerts featuring Celine Dion, AC/DC, the Eagles, Keith Urban and Taylor Swift, Kenny Chesney, Fleetwood Mac and Britney Spears. It has hosted sold-out, nationally televised events such as the first and second rounds of the NCAA men’s basketball tournament, the Professional Bull Riders tour, WWE Raw and WWE Smackdown.
Just wait until the guys from Brazil who jump over stuff on their horses ride down 18th and Vine.
Curiously, Cordish claims the Sprint Center is underachieving financially because it has not landed an NBA or NHL team. Usually, you don’t associate underachieving with full houses, so let’s hope the Cordish folks know more about these things than I do.
Goodman told me he’s just partial to pro team sports, that he thinks we can’t truly be considered a major-league city without the presence of the Las Vegas Kings or the Las Vegas Coyotes, Nordiques or Really Zealous High Stickers.
But his closing thought was in the form of a question.
“How many beers in a case?”
Discussion: 20 comments so far…
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you know why politicians try so hard to get these things built?
it's not "civic pride" or "jobs".
it's because of the millions of dollars their friends in the construction business get from building the stadium.
period.
$7.00 per hour jobs selling peanuts and beer do very little to put money into the economy.
come to saint louis and see our fabulous "ballpark village" we were going to get with our new baseball stadium...it's still a vacant lot.
fix the streets, empty the trash, get rid of the welfare government bums downtown and I bet they know where to stick the mop
just another Goodman ploy to his hands "tax payer pay checks"
what about the success of neonopolis just another beautiful piece of goberment work
Cordish was well connected in the Carter era - one of their own was the head crook at HUD. They have done well sucking at the tit of corporate welfare. They did a miserable project in Niagara Falls, NY and still own that piece which is a significant contributor to blight in that sorry city which has benefited greatly from a large native american casino/hotel. Ok, and another person mentioned the sometimes Lake Ballpark Village - the project in downtown St. Louis which was a mosquito breeding pit until it was filled in and a nice grass lawn is there. They were to do a project in downtown Buffalo, NY which never came to fruition. Welcome to Vegas where perhaps there is enough money and corruption to pull this off?
Don't misunderstand me - I think Mayor Oscar is charming and I like the titillation from the girls following him around. Just take off the blinders and accept the limitations of consultants who perhaps at times carry the stench of the garbage pits they try to turn into golden streets!
Please make Oscar go away.
I am tired of these dissenters of the arena project. The only thing Las Vegas is truly missing is Major League sports. I would drive either to LA or Phoenix once a month just to get my fix of a live MLB/NFL/NBA/NHL sporting event.
With Las Vegas having a sports team, it will connect with not only a local fanbase, but all the visitors who do not have a team where they live as well.
With ESPN reaching 95 million households, just envision ESPN or a major network broadcasting a live game from Vegas. That itself is some major advertising that can only be done through sports. HBO already does that through boxing.
I am a baseball guy and would love more than everything else to have a MLB team in Vegas. But I'll be the first to buy season tickets for the Vegas NHL and NBA teams should that time come.
It is time for Vegas to have a whole new dimension. Let Reno have the the minor leagues.
I am not negative about the idea of a sports team - if you believe in it put up your money. No more taxation without representation. And don't go with a shoddy consultant. That is, maybe that is ok if they will put a billion or so on the table in cash.
Okay...what about the Las Vegas Convention Center, the Mandalay Events Center, the Sands Exposition Center, Cashman Center, the MGM Grand Garden, the hundreds of thousands of square feet that the major casino hotels have for concerts, special events, boxing, etc. What about the Orleans and Southpoint special events centers...It all exists now...why build something to compete with what we already have. Yes, if we had a professional team committed then okay...Pro Sports is such a draw, and not minor sports basketball, baseball, hockey, or indoor football, soccer, squash, etc. We should either be in the big leagues, or not support another venue when they already exist here in Las Vegas.
How about we play Indianapolis and give it a try? The least that could happen is that the Pro Bowl would make LV a permanent home, that the Brake, Lawnmower, or TV Bowl could move to January and become an almost BCS Bowl in place of a minimum pay, get the 6th place team, bowl. Add in a Final 4 every 10 years and you can do well WITHOUT a team.
Better yet, get all the parties who would be involved in building a multi-use, primarily football, facility, lock the door, and hammer out an agreement to come together, stop building these penny anny 8-10,000 seat bandboxes and do something that would mark Las Vegas as a city that gets things done. There is no way that UNLV succeeds in football without a decent place to play. Sam Boyd is not a decent place to play. Even South Florida has been able to fill and build an identity at the home of the Tampa Bay Bucs.
I've got your back Ron. I'll take a piece of your action to the tune of a sixer of Yuengling against a quarter of a fifth of Bombay Blue.
Kantowski is 100% correct about what sort of facility might---just possibly---work for Las Vegas. The obligations and limitations of a pro sports season make a terribly lame foundation for success under one of these giant roofs. What LV would need would be the venue able to go from game, to rodeo, to concert in a week...all year round.
What the Mayor knows about sports is how to wager and how to watch games. He imagines showing up at events with the show girls and dreams of having his name on a grand public works project. What the Mayor knows about the business of sports is zero.
The City has no consultants on this subject who give practical advice on the terrible record such projects have around the country. Those experts exist and that terrible record is well known...we've just never wanted to listen. The City get developers and financial middle men who show up and want to be part of the deal. They talk fast and get the politicians excited. Excited investors seldom make prudent decisions.
I've spent years at City Hall and everybody but the elected officials and the stooges on the Economic Development staff seem to be aware of these facts.
Mayor Goodman it's time to ease up on the gin.
Look in the mirror it's starting to show big time that you drink in excess
Just wait until he's governor! Not!
Why not build it next to the neonoplis downtown?? Another bright idea by this goofball mayor. The last time I was downtown, the place was completly empty and was over run with bums..
While I appreciate the idea, building more entertainment, casino & hotel space doesn't seem like an especially smart investment for the taxpayer at this time. (And if it is a smart investment, why aren't the big casino hotels lining up behind it?) Time to back to the suggestion box...
I've said it before and I'll say it again - If some yahoo developer wants to spend HIS money, and ONLY HIS money, go for it. Build the biggest, noisiest goddamn eyesore this city has ever witnessed. Then take any and all profit home to yourself. Have a field day.
BUT, if you want to use MY money, by way of some sh*thole bond offering or using MY taxes for it, then f*ck off. Because it WILL NOT make money and it will be another goddamn white elephant like the Monorail.
We Las Vegans have the attention span of a monkey playing with his dick. We won't go to have of the crappy events planned for the "miracle" arena simply for the fact that Thomas & Mack and Cashman Center and the MGM Grand Garden Arena and all the other huge entertainment centers this town has will not give up one single penny in attendance fees by letting the "miracle" arena outbid their Bono's and Cher's and whomever from taking their show elsewhere. That will leave only the second-tier and lower rungs of entertainment to perform in the "miracle" venue. And we will be stuck with Creedence Clearwater Revisted to fill those new seats.
Oscar needs to give up on the downtown arena pipe dream and just make the downtown area what it should be - a downtown area. Fill it up with arts and bars and shops and let it grow, slowly, on its own.
That's it, no more from me on this one. Sheesh!
sheckyvegas:
Yes, arts, bars, shops - that will turn that downtown around. Those are the reasons people come to Vegas, right? How much slower do you want downtown to grow? Any slower, and it will be going backwards. But hey, why not build an arena that will dump 15,000 people on 40 nights (if NHL) into the downtown area, and then talk about bars/shops, etc.
I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for beefeater gin today!!!!!!