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twitterSecond man dies while being restrained by Metro officers
During news conference, police say both men had underlying medical conditions
Katharine Euphrat
Metro Police Capt. Randy Montandon discusses two recent cases Thursday afternoon in which men died while in the custody of Metro officers.
Published Thursday, Nov. 5, 2009 | 7:35 a.m.
Updated Thursday, Nov. 5, 2009 | 7 p.m.
Two Die After Struggles with Officers
Metro Police Capt. Randy Montandon discusses two recent cases Thursday afternoon in which men died while in the custody of Metro officers.
A man died in the custody of Metro Police Wednesday night after a struggle with officers at a home in the southwest Las Vegas Valley, police said today. It's the second time in four days a man has died as he was being restrained by Metro officers.
Eight officers and a sergeant have been placed on paid administrative leave, Metro Capt. Randy Montandon said at a news conference this afternoon. Four officers and a sergeant were involved in the first incident on Sunday, and four officers were involved in the second incident on Wednesday.
Both men who died after struggles with officers had underlying medical conditions and were overweight, Montandon said.
In the most recent case, authorities received a call Wednesday night from a social worker requesting police assistance to a residence in the 7700 block of Scoby Court. Police said the social worker told dispatchers that a client, who was under state supervision, wasn't in compliance with his prescribed medication and was behaving erratically.
When officers arrived at the home, the social worker advised police that the man had taken numerous unknown medications throughout the day and had possibly turned on gas valves inside the home, police said. After speaking to the man for more than an hour and witnessing the erratic behavior, police said, officers tried to take the man into custody for transport to a medical facility.
During the struggle, one of the officers applied a lateral vascular neck restraint to subdue the man, police said.
It took several pairs of handcuffs to restrain the man, who was not breathing at the end of the struggle, Montandon said. The man was transported to a local hospital, where he was pronounced dead.
The man, who has not been identified because his family has not been contacted, was described as in his 30s and weighing more than 300 pounds, Montandon said.
In a separate case, police announced Thursday morning that a man who was combative with officers died Sunday evening as emergency crews were trying to subdue him.
Altercation
In that incident, officers responded at 6:22 p.m. Sunday to the 500 block of North 14th Street regarding a report of a fight involving two roommates, one of whom reportedly was armed with a knife, police said. One of the men, Daniel Morantes, 47, became combative with officers and displayed erratic behavior by screaming and yelling, police said.
Officers worked to subdue Morantes and called for medical response as a result of his behavior. Montandon described the officer's hold on him as a "bear hug."
The man stopped breathing after paramedics arrived and was pronounced dead a short time later at Sunrise Medical Center.
Homicide detectives are investigating the incident. Police said there were no signs as to the cause of death either from the fight that originated the call or from officers taking Morantes into custody.
Montandon said that Metro's homicide section and the Clark County Coroner's Office are doing separate investigations into the deaths of both men. Asked whether Metro should bring in an outside, independent agency to investigate the circumstances of the deaths, Montandon said it wasn't necessary.
A Clark County Coroner's Office spokeswoman said neither man had been identified and that toxicology and other test results had not been completed.
Sun reporters Tim Richardson and Amanda Finnegan contributed to this report.
Discussion: 107 comments so far…
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Metro killed another one - he 'displayed eratic behavior by screaming and yelling' so they killed him.
Metro is on a roll! Residents are being shot or dying mysteriously in the hands of officers hired to protect us residents. I thought they were gonna give refresher training courses to the officers on dealing with the public. Again, they will have a good alibi why this man died in their custody and I am curious what is it this time. Also, we need to have an outside agency to investigate, Metro investigators won't look good investigating their own.
Time for a civilian review board.
Harry Reid and his idiot son have done far more damage to the people of Nevada than metro ever could.
This happened on Sunday...why are we just now hearing about it?
Something tells me drugs were involved.
Now you can be killed by Metro in your own house!!
Another COLD-BLOODED MURDER-by-COPS!
For Heaven's Sake, let the guys fight!
The riff raff never learn. The police are your friends. Do as you're told and you won't come to any harm. Maybe Daniel's parents are to blame for not teaching him to respect authority.
More & more these days, ANY CALL for cops are ending up DEADLY!
witeizrite -- Orwell described you better than anyone here could:
"Ignorance is strength
"Freedom is slavery"
Every time the cops kill someone we have all sorts crawl out of the woodwork to thank them for removing another thug from the street. These types obviously never read 1984 in high school (assuming they finished h.s.).
Metro and it's union own the politicians in Las Vegas. The result is they continue to break the law and engage in questionable practices on an almost daily basis. A proper civilian review board to provide a check to Metro's power would be wise. But I am not certain it will ever happen in this town.
Why don't you ignorant people let the Coroner determine what the cause was before you go and say Metro "killed" him. As has been demonstrated time and time again most of these idiots are jacked up on something. Just because they struggle with some erractic jerk doesn't mean they killed him. If you take his stupid behavior out of the equation, Metro would have never been called. Him acting like some out of control ahole to begin with is what put this in motion. Or would you rather Metro just never show up and the roommates could have killed each other. Maybe Metro should consider that so they won't be criticized every time some thug decides to commit a crime, doesn't obey when crews come to help, and then his doped-up body gives out on him. So stop with the poor us..Metro kills people bs..people kill each other more than Metro ever does.
I don't know the specifics of this individual case. But in general, cops have to get it out of their heads that everyone must kowtow in their presence and that they are always entitled to absolute obedience from everyone on the scene. Smarter, more mature cops know that using their wits and often being the calm voice of reason, is often the best way to defuse a heated situation. Also, they know that citizens don't need to lose their most basic civil liberties, just because a cop is now present. It's just that in the mindset of too many policemen, it's believed that they MUST be in COMPLETE CONTROL of every last person, or else they can't do their job. This is just wrong. And tragic things happen, perhaps as did in the above story(?), because too many cops are all to quick to resort to brutish force in order to make everyone absolutely obedient. Gentleman, imposing your force is a LAST resort; not your first resort.
Innocent until proven guilty apparently applies to everyone except the police
You don't pull knives on people, you don't resist arrest, you play it cool with Metro and you will not have any problems. As long as you are not in possession of any illegal substances or weapons, they will be on their way.
Welcome to yet another episode of "Due Process" Vegas style, a continuing series of unrecorded public street death mysteries to captivate the imagination of justice.
: (
My favorite part about hearing the rants against the police on these posts is that NO ONE IS LISTENING! You are not changing tactics or policies by typing on your keyboard, as much as you would like to think you are. The police are going to continue to do their jobs in the best way they see fit to do them and that's that. Very simple. I for one am glad that the police are not influenced by the opinions of people who get all of their facts from the LV Sun.
DTJ
Exactly..no one knows the specifics of this case. But everyone is so quick to judge the cops as "killers". Yes, there are hot-headed, bad apples on every department, but they are in the minority.
Contrary to your comment..cops don't have to "get it out of their heads"..everyone who is committing a crime MUST kowtow to their presence. That's why we have law enforcement. To "enforce" laws upon a criminal running around endangering several people, armed with a knife, acting erratic. The cops ARE entitled to "absolute obedience" or they are resisting arrest. If cops lose control of a situation people die..innocent bystanders, the cop himself. You all seem to forget they have family to go home to just like you and me.
You and I weren't there, so you don't know if force was a first or last resort, but your comment implies as if their mentality is to show up on scene and start busting heads. They receive plenty of training on how to assess a situation.
So stop judging every damn thing they do every time an article appears. Plenty of crimes happen every day to INNOCENT people.
Maybe you would like for there to be no law enforcement..the criminals could run rampant.. and you can go out there and sing kumbayah and hold hands with the thug and pray that alleviates his desire to do harm.
Wow, a lot of metro or metro sympathizers here who will blindly go out of their way to justify metro mistakes. The sheriff himself suggested some retraining because that is what other police department do after multiple incidents like what happened recently. Again, the police officers are hired to protect the citizens and paid by taxpayer's money. Residents are not the enemies but are customers that need to be served when needed.
"My favorite part about hearing the rants against the police on these posts is that NO ONE IS LISTENING!"
shutyertrap -- you can only wish. Keep sucking up to the police state -- maybe when it's your turn they'll go easy on you.
Thanks lv1....you took the words right out of my mouth
"There's no such thing as coincidence. Only the illusion of coincidence."
Quit blaming police for every looney tune that suffers a stroke or MI during one of his or her maniac events.
what the hell is going on???
the cops are out of control!!!
period!!!
end of story!!!
Has anyone coined the term "Death by Metro" yet?
Why is it that people say he had a knife, I didn't read where he had a knife. I did read a knife was involved in the fight but that may have been the other guy who had the knife?
Also, did the Para-medics administer a sedative to calm him down, could that sedative have over-reacted to shut his system down?
It is still early for all the evidence to reveal what happened, my hopes are no one is to blame.
My condolence to the Morantes family.
Did you people not get the memo? You are the ENEMY!
Well the State Social worker did his or her part at least by calling the cops and giving them as much information as possible.
Judy, you're probably the most ignorant person on this site. There's no information here to support your outlandish claim of murder.
Do you even accept the possibility that his behavior was due to a ridiculous cocktail of drugs and the death was due to that? Probably not. You just want to wave your arms around and spout "F-da-po-lice."
You make me ashamed to live in this city.
I amend my previous comment, I think rejco100 may be the most ignorant person in Vegas. When Judy posted, there was only 1/2 an article. Rejco has a history of anti-police posts. What you fail to realize is that NLV and Vegas is a cesspool of individuals attracted to fast money and glitz. Sure, there are some good people in that mix, but you just have to read the complementary headlines to get a feel for just how BAD this city is. Death by swimming pool? Death by SUV? Death by disagreement? Death by dumpster?
Upstanding citizens, all.
Strange they didn't just tazer him?
I have to tell ya, I have lived in various locations on the east coast and in Texas. Metro PD is by far the most violent and apparently corrupt department I have ever seen. This is insane.
Doesn't look good, that's for sure. You put a choke hold on someone, especially someone who is on drugs (legal or illegal) and you just increased the chances that person will die by a factor of about 100. Same thing for tasering a person under those conditions. We're WAY PAST the time for a civilian review board in Las Vegas. Being out of control or resisting arrest are NOT capital crimes in any civilized country though both appear to be so in Las Vegas.
wow, i wish this was a cold day - there is enough heat in these comments to warm all of the strip. so this is quite the town - if you have an enemy you don't have to hire a hit man - just call the police and say please and the problem is solved! Wow, what a place!
Seriously, be objective - something is really wrong - pray that justice done with malice toward no one!
peegee76, NO ONE WAS DEAD UNTIL THE COPS GOT INVOLVED!
The people on here complaining about the police are the same people who complain about everything. I will repeat what others have written here. If you don't put yourself into this position the police won't have to subdue you.
If a man runs from the police he deserves to get shot.
If a man comes at an officer with a knife he deserves to get shot.
If you resist arrest or resist the police you deserve to get shot.
If you do what you are told and don't break any laws, no one gets hurt.
I would love to see all of you "complainers" go out and do the job that Metro does. I'd like to see you pull over an erratic driver and approach his car not knowing what to expect. I would love to see you "calmly" try to subdue a drug addict who wants to fight with you.
Get real people. If you don't put yourself in this position, no one gets hurt. I for one have the fullest respect for the law. If I get pulled over I respect the uniform. You don't have to respect the man, but you must respect the uniform.
I say that if it is me or you, I'm gonna make sure it's you.
Trust in the police is the glue that holds society together. In parts of Mexico trust in the police was lost now they have soldiers patrolling the streets. Please investigate these incidents and recommend changes for the sake of the community.
Permanent sleeper hold, nice! Dah dah dah, another one bites the dust!
Here's an example of reality when contrasted with rejco100's spin.
Reality: "Individuals 1 and 2 get in a dispute. Individual 1 stabs Individual 2 in the kidney. Police arrive after 911 call and contact emergency crew for Individual 2. Individual 2 dies while in police custody."
Rejco100's "reality": "Cops killed another one! NO ONE WAS DEAD UNTIL THE COPS GOT INVOLVED!"
How does Metro Police Capt. Randy Montandon keep a straight face when this happens?
All of us have an underlying medical condition - think about it.
That is the oldest excuse in the book. Merto trots that excuse out every time this happens. This has happened in our jails, our lockups, during interrogations. If a citizen did it, it's called murder. Ask any attorney about the rule of "The boy with the egg shell skull".
THE LAW
This rule holds one liable for all consequences resulting from his or her tortious (usually negligent) activities leading to an injury to another person, even if the victim suffers an unusually high level of damage (e.g. due to a pre-existing vulnerability or medical condition). The term implies that if a person had a skull as delicate as the shell of an egg, and a tortfeasor who was unaware of the condition injured that person's head, causing the skull unexpectedly to break, the defendant would be held liable for all damages resulting from the wrongful contact, even if such damages were not reasonably foreseeable, or
the tortfeasor did not intend to cause such a severe injury.
In criminal law, the general maxim is that the defendant must "take their victims as they find them", a quotation from the judgement of Lord Justice Lawton in R v. Blaue (1975), in which the defendant was held responsible for killing his victim, despite his contention that her refusal of a blood transfusion constituted novus actus interveniens.
Wild West law enforcement, you gotta love it!!! Cars overturning, speeding through the streets of Vegas and cops shooting people for looking "out of control" keep up the good work guys and rid this town of all the thugs that rode into this town!! YEE HAW!!!!
Swine flu & metro?
Answer; not our fault, underlying medical conditions (under lie...ing).
Swine flu & metro?
Answer; death by pig.
When did Richard Dreyfuss become the Las Vegas Metro Police Captain? Did he retire from acting?
At this rate the whole metro police dept will be on admin leave in about a month. The streets will finally be safe again.
denver21
In neither instance did they say they were "shot" for "looking out of control"..I believe they were subdued for "being out of control". If they shot every one in this town for looking out of control, they'd get target practice every day. On that end, if they just started capping every citizen I see acting, driving or just in general being idiots, they'd help thin it out!
I see a 2-year old boy was pulled from a pool.. I'm guessing with the mentality on here, they'll say Metro must have thrown him in!
I also saw a young 19 year old mother smothered her infant and tossed it in a dumpster.
Defense claim: "Metro made me do it!"
Why don't we all just wait and get all the facts before jumping to conclusions?
For all of you that are so ready to condemn and ridicule Metro: Next time you need to dial 911 due to needing protected, do our Metro officers a favor and don't call them into harms way for your sorry butts. Since you are so much wiser and better equipped, handle the problem yourself and don't cry about the outcome.
Until we get an outside agency to investigate and take over metro, these problems won't stop. It worked in Los Angeles when the Feds got involved and retrained the gubngho cops there. Maybe we need to hire Chief Bratton to straighten Metro up like he did in Los Angeles. It did not work when LA internal affairs investigated their own so we need the Feds to come to the rescue. This is getting out of hand and we need help now.
Life w/o Metro would be very dangerous in these streets folks. If you are a criminal be many many afraid, because these cops are all badasses and they'll put your lights out if you cross them. Me? I love it. I would not have it any other way. I do absolutely nothing illegal. I'm okay with the way the Metro treats these riff raff.
What problem?
Phargo: Completely agree with you.
These "victims" aren't innocent people or productive members of society. They're being combative, pulling guns on cops and the like. It's hard to feel sorry for people who put themselves in these situations.
I am glad that the Metro police are doing the vital work that they do.
Anyone must and should obey any lawful order from a police officer. The job of the police is difficult and dangerous. In those dangerous situations, they must have full control. Don't make their jobs any harder than they already are. Stay clean, be respectful and cooperate. You'll be better off and we'll all be better off.
If there was a VIDEO of the incident I'm sure it would show something else than the official COP version.
These creeps need to quit killing people. These morons need to understand that everyone can't take a lateral vascular neck restraint (being stangled) and come out of it ok. I mean seriously it's time to put a leash on these idiots.
The truth is that there are many sick people in this town. Some are on prescription drugs to include pain medication, anti-anxiety, and other meds for psychiatric reasons.
Another truth is that there are many obese and unhealthy people in this town.
Add the two together and elevate their heart rate during a struggle and what you get is cardiac and or/respiratiory arrest.
I know that many people believe that metro wants to kill people. Just remember those who comprise metro are people who live in this community like you and I. Unfortunately their job sometimes means that they have to deal with some of the aspects of life that most people are sheltered from, or don't understand.
It's easy to jump to conclusions because you think the police killed him. In reality, this individual killed himself. It's too bad that some of the men and women who work as police officers for metro had to be a part of this unfortunate situation.
No matter what profession you talk about there are always a few bad apples. Not every officer is a murderer, or a bad person. It's just too bad that the ignorant never look past the surface. It's too bad that many people make judgements about people that they don't even know based on a preconceived prejudice, or because they had one bad experience with an officer.
Veritas, you must be the same Officer who murdered the 15 year old boy not so long ago? Guess you HAD to kill him-in front of his mother- because you couldn't have shot him in the arm or leg to get him to drop that knife? No, no...that THUG and SCUM of a boy deserved to DIE.
Give me a break.
Let the COP bashing begin!!!
Some COPS are a$$holes...but to bash them all?!?!? dont be so ignorant.... The man that DIED WAS OVERWEIGHT....case closed...lose weight and you wont die
You people have no idea what you are talking about. The people that bash Metro officers wouldn't survive a minute in thier shoes. You chose to sit on your butt behind a desk all day, while they go out day after day to protect ungrateful people like you. Until you have done that job, you have no idea what it was like to be there.
And, the reason you can't use a gun or tazer was because the social worker said he turned gas valves on. Spark + gas = explosion. The officers had no choice but to engage the way they did.
Next time you need the police, please don't call 911. If Metro is so evil, call your fellow citizens to help. The reality is that they won't, and people here will bash cops for not helping you.
"During the struggle, one of the officers applied a lateral vascular neck restraint to subdue the man, police said."
Yeah, it's called a choke hold, and the Los Angeles Police Department banned them years and years ago because of a high death rate of black arrestees subjected to them.
I guess that in the Banana Republic of Nevada, the due process clause of the U.S. Constitution doesn't apply, nor do those pesky Federal Court cases which say that a police officer cannot act as judge, jury and executioner.
Let's see, WAAAAY overweight, taking drugs, not taking prescribed medication, fighting.
And somehow it's Metro's fault?
Many a cop has died at the hands of these out of control people.
I suppose the cop haters have no problem when the outcome goes that way.
And the "boy" who was killed while holding the knife to his mother was hardly a "fine citizen". HE WAS THREATENING TO MURDER HER.
The social worker's job will be safer now.
This year in the Valley, the cops have killed themselves at a greater rate than criminals do. Check the facts! The only people the cops kill even faster than themselves, is the rest of us!
LV1 (and LV1's lapdog, Enteaser),
You don't deserve to be a citizen of this great country with your anti-American lack of respect and appreciation for a citizen's most basic rights. Spend some time in Siberia picking coal out of the frozen ice with your bare fingers for a decade or two, since you love the totalitarian, jack-boot way of life so much. Meanwhile, NO, cops DO NOT deserve absolute obedience; citizens don't, and SHOULDN'T kowtow to them. Cops are public servants. Not thugs with badges (though you'd never know with the way many of them behave.)
I actually defended the actions of the officer who shot the 15 year-old boy who held a knife to his own mother's throat. I'm not a knee-jerk cop-basher. I'm a law-and-order, law-abiding, citizen. But the men in the above story who were killed, were killed in their own homes. And FOR WHAT?? What heinous crime did they commit that deserved an instant death sentence???
You charge one with "committing a crime" and "running around endangering several people, armed with a knife." One social worker made an allegation that there was a knife. That's it. The rest of it is made-up BS by YOU. This is precisely why cops cannot be allowed to be judge, jury and executioner. Sounds to me like the police show up and escalated the situation. Why? Because they just had to "be in charge." You say, "if cops lose control of a situation people die." To repeat what another poster has already said, nobody died until the cops showed up and started killing. Get you facts straight! Spends some time in Siberia, or North Korea thinking about it. Take your time. America is for those of us who appreciate human rights and what it means to be a citizen of this great country.
Comment removed by staff.
Kill somebody get a vacation. Fitting logic coming from Metro.
Metro is not about Law Enforcement, these jokers think they are at War. The community is the enemy.
It is all one big game of cops and robbers to these untrained ignorant idiots. The pile of bodies is mounting and there are still some on here rationalizing it away as appropriate method?
Vegas has the Police it deserves. As dumb a bunch as they are.
get out your wallet taxpayers, we have to pay for more of Metro's hi jinks. We need cameras mounted on all cars and cops, as well as a ACLU led civilian review board .
Mr. Lunatic stop. please stop. no don't. I mean it, now stop it. I'm not kidding.
Damn, that didn't work, now what?
Morons............
LVMPD has a duty of due diligence upon probable cause. "Perception" is neither probable cause nor due diligence.
What is it about all of this that you people don't actually get? If you are in the midst of committing a crime, being disorderly meaning that someone had to call the police. The police didn't just show up and say let's kill someone today. SOMEONE HAD TO CALL THEM IN!!!! That being said, once the police have been called now they are tasked to quell the situation.
If they tell you to stop what you are doing then you are bound by the law to stop what you are doing. This is a very simple concept people. If you don't comply then the police are empowered by the law to make you comply. If you resist or struggle then you need to be subdued. Simple concept right?
What about the day that Mr. Prendez showed up at the site of a domestic disturbance and was shot down sniper style by a lunatic? Every day these guys put their lives on the line for you. Are there a bad apple or two. Yes there are but that doesn't detract from the rest of these brave men who daily put their life on the line so you can go to the store without the fear of being mugged. Vegas IS A WAR zone people. The gang activity is out of control. Crime is out of control. People are out of control.
I said this before. If you put yourself into this position you deserve what you get.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
remember the old vietnam chestnut" in order to save a village you have to destroy it" ?
I have another idea. If you don't like it here you are free to move someplace else. I for one feel safer here. I know and am friends with several metro officers. They have a tough job. If you don't committ the crime you don't have to worry about the repercussions.
No law enforcement agency should be allowed to investigate any type of accidents, arrest, deaths or crimes that involve currently employed officers. That is a major conflict of interest. Where is the ACLU and why aren't they involved. I have lived in 6 states and this is the only state that allows these types of conflicts.
Nothing will come out of this...the police protect their own...at any cost.This is not restricted to Nevada either.
It is all so simple! When you have an encounter with a police officer you simply keep your mouth shut and follow his or her instructions. That is the law --- and by doing so, you will save yourself a whole lot of grief. See how easy that was?
All the reasons/ alibis that these metro or metro sympathizers are posting were the same alibis I read from the old Los Angeles PD. They were like cut-n-paste from them and their problems did not change until the Feds took over the LAPD. How many more citizen's lives and millions of settlement we have to waste before some real changes get implemented?
DTJ
If you have the FACTS I would love to see the statistics and the valid source from which they came. Otherwise, it's just you spilling the BS.
You don't deserve to be a citizen of any country if you believe a criminal has more civil rights than the innocent person he is attacking.
Cops are public servants, and they were serving the public by subduing a threatening out-of-control maniac. If this thug would have killed his roommate, then what, you blame Metro for not stopping him soon enough. You people can't have it both ways.
And to set it straight, with your rambling last paragraph..the article I was commenting on involved the two roommates who were fighting with the one waving a knife. The article about the social worker came out second and was combined with the first one. So nothing I said was bs, you just didn't follow the discussion. Get your facts straight. I knew what I was commenting on.
Nobody had died yet..how do you know that thug wasn't about to kill his roommate. So at least the right person was killed.
I guess from now on Metro should just not show up and let the criminals take care of each other.
Save us all the trouble and then you crybabies would have nothing to blame on Metro.
It is ashame that these individuals died in the custody of our Police Dept.Having two close friends on a Police Dept.in another City I have heard their reasons for becoming a law enforcement officer.They both said that they always wanted to protect and serve the communities they live in.They both at one time were active duty or reservist in our military.
Telling me that it was a calling in their lives to help others.
In todays world of drugs gangs and the increase in domestic violence,has increased the levels of safety of our local law enforcement.The two officers that I know say that their biggest fear is not doing their job correctly and making the wrong call in a split second descission that even with all their training it still could happen.
These police officers are humans and their minds and emotions function just like ours.I have the up most respect for what they do and deal with on a daily basis.Just like in everything their of course a few bad apples in every bunch and spoil it for the rest but for the most part the police are here to protect us from those that my cause harm to us or themselves and to the officers dealing with the situation.Their goal is to prevent this from happening.
as I read the the information about the situation on Wensday the officers had tried to talk to the guy and had whitnessed behavior that led them to believe that he was a threat to others and or himself and made the call to go ahead and restrain him.Their was a whitness their that was the mans social worker and had called for help which tells me that they were affraid for others or himself.Put yourself in this position and when you would have to deal with a situation like this what would you do?
I am sure during the struggle the officers adrenalin started pumping and with the person resisting things happened totally unintended.
My question is this does the Metro Police Dept. have trained officers to deal with Metally Ill citizens.Back home these officers are part of a unit called C.I.T officers or Crisis Intervention Team officers who are specially trained in dealing with the metally ill patients of the community.
Alot of times these officers are able to communicate with the person and are able to talk them into getting help that they so desperately need.
I hope and pray that the officers involved used proper procedure and are cleared of all accusations.I believe that they never intended on harming this individuals to the point of death.Good luck to all law enforcement and I commend your service to our community.You serve us as those in our Armed Services in protecting us and are on the frontlines like those serving overseas everyday.
Rodtig,
You've made a level-headed attempt to assess the situation fairly. I still strongly suspect that the officers on the scene let their egos and impatience take over. The deaths in either case were completely senseless and unnecessary.
LV1,
So instead of the social worker, the police say somebody else supposedly mentioned a knife. BIG DEAL! The real point is, there never is mention of a knife again -and you can be damn sure that if the police DID find a knife, we would have heard all about it.
You throw about the slurs and false accusations of "thug," "maniac," and "CRIMINAL." What crime has either of these men been convicted of?! The story says the first man "displayed erratic behavior." That's all! For that, he received an instant death sentence. The second man also "displayed erratic behavior by screaming and yelling." Oh BOO HOO! The cops can't take some yelling, so they killed him too.
"Thug," "maniac," and "criminal," LV1??? Maybe these words have different meanings where you come from back in Siberia. But here in the Good Ol' US of A, a man still has the right to yell, without becoming a "criminal" and without being instantly put to death by cops.
And if I were at your level, I'd say "I cant wait to read about you (Metro apologists) in the next news story. Ha ha ha." But for better or for worse, rights -including the right to not get murdered by the police- are for EVERYONE. Even those of you who don't respect and deserve these rights. (However, I might make an exception and say "go ahead and execute people who put 'ha ha ha' in their posts." How mindlessly dumb.)
Don't forget, they were both fatties.
DTJ
A man has a right to yell, but when he endangers the life of other innocent people and the public servants sworn to protect them from harm, he is acting like a criminal. Whether it be battery, resisting arrest, or whatever else is classified when fighting with another person and wielding a knife, there shall be some recourse. If he acted like a fine upstanding citizen then he wouldn't have been in a situation where the police need to be called. That makes him a thug. So that accusation is not false. Maybe you should take all the "fine upstanding citizens" who are detained by police back to Siberia with you. I for one have never been there.
So to that end, a man has a right to yell, and scream, and throw a tantrum..but when he threatens the lives of others, he has the right to get his a** beat down. And if it takes such great force to subdue him that it causes him injury, so be it. Don't start no sh*t, there won't be no sh*t!
12 officcers, 2 sgts, against 2 overweight medicated nuts. Sounds like a fair fight. I'll take them odds.
Martinez then heard the man scream and say, "Somebody help me. Why did you do this to me?"
"It sounded like he was choking. ... It was a pretty gross sound," Martinez said. "It sounded like he was getting hurt or killed."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chokehold
But I Guess if you are a sheep you figure since people do not comply to the police, they deserve the Death Penalty? No matter if they have the ability to comply or not.
The Police have a responsibilty to HELP people. Killing them is not helping. These incidents indicate a Department out of control and adrift. Officers are prssured, untrained, and appear to think they are in a War. As a group they have become a menace to society at this point.
stephen..
I doubt Metro went out there to kill somebody. They were HELPing someone, obviously the person who felt threatened enough to call the police. There could be some underlying medical reason that caused him to have cardiac arrest etc. Find out the facts before you judge. This is a couple instances out of how many cases they come across on a daily basis. They don't kill every person they come in contact with!
I know several officers personally and they are adequately trained. And you are correct in one point..they are in a war. Every single day..against the evil dirtbags who rape, rob and kill every day!
If you think they are a menace to society, what do you consider the crooks, thieves, rapists and murderers?
Maybe you should go hold hands with them and DTJ. I'm sure you'll make them find "the way" to all that is just and pure and holy in this world and they'll stop committing crimes.
and maybe Burrittobandit should watch an episode of COPS, where it takes 4-5 officers to subdue a hopped up 350 lb. guy. It isn't always a fair fight.
LV1,
You're making stuff up, right and left. Prove that there ever was a knife. The cops haven't even claimed that. Prove that either of the victims "endanger(ed) the life of other innocent people," an unsubstantiated false charge you've made about four times, now. Nothing in the story says anything of the kind. You tell Stephen to "find out the facts before you judge." What a phony hypocrite you are.
I provided a link to what a choke hold is. The choke hold can and does lead to death. It is a very risky maneuver even with a compliant sound person. In the situation which killed this man, the CH was completely the wrong choice,,,thus the news stories and investigation. Most Law Enforcement agencies have outlawed the use of choke holds. This is an old well documented issue.
The Police set the tone. If they look at the community as hostile, they create that reality. Most areas, including the really bad ones, are not war zones. Poverty is not a crime. Truth is many of these incidents involving Metro happen in nice neighborhoods.
There is really no need to be shooting people in the back. Driving like maniacs. Or using techniques like choke holds. All of this happens when a Police Department is out of control.
Metro is projecting their own out of control condition onto the community. Metro is projecting their own Paranoia onto the community. They view others as hostile by default, that is wrong and creates situations which didn't exist prior.
We will see more and more of these incidents. I see no desire by the leaders of Metro to do anything constructive about their out of control force. They will continue to promote policies and procedures which further isolate their officers from Society. Not until your see Gillespie come-out publically against the actions of one of his out of control officers will anything change. These are not hero's, they are BAD cops.
DTJ
Quoted from above.
"In a separate case, police announced Thursday morning that a man who was combative with officers died Sunday evening as emergency crews were trying to subdue him.
In that incident, officers responded at 6:22 p.m. Sunday to the 500 block of North 14th Street regarding a report of a fight involving two roommates, one of whom reportedly was armed with a knife"
I'm not making up sh*t. We all make our comments based on the information given. Just like yourself.
Apparently I can read an article and you can't. Don't bother responding (yet again) as I am done rehashing what we all know..1) Man acts stupid. 2) Cops are called. 3) Man won't settle down and further endangers emergency crews trying to help. 4) Man is subdued. 5) Sh*t happens. 6) One less mouth to feed in jail, saving taxpayers money.
300# dude playing with NG gas jacked up on drugs so who of you Metro bashers wants to go in first to get this guy in a house full of gas ?? I thought so. Point is , be a decent citizen and you have no problems with police. The officers put their lives in danger to try and subdue this man. So he died, to bad, s happens, if he had been a decent citizen and not resisted arrest and try to burn down a house maybe he would still be alive to feed on another buffet. How does the blame shift to the ones that tried to protect and save him?
You people are funny Metro's not to blame because they were called to take down another douche bag that lost his cookies.I'm sure the inquiry will show they did what they were suspose to.
And to the Metro bashers stop getting f--king arrested and you won't hate these guys.
LV1,
No matter how many times you try and repeat your lie, THERE WAS NO KNIFE INVOLVED. Just because there was misinformation from the dispatcher, or whoever made the call, or maybe even from Metro themselves, doesn't change the facts. NO proof of any knife -GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. Furthermore, what the hell does "combative" mean? Your initial, unprovoked remarks to me were combative. A husband and a wife have a spat in the kitchen, that's combative. The only thing we know that resembles an explanation of what "combative" means in this case, is that the man was "screaming and yelling." For that, he was KILLED.
"Man won't settle down and further endangers emergency crews trying to help."
Wow! You've outdone even your own dishonest self, there LV1. THREE(3!) outrageous, unsubstantiated charges (read "lies") in just one sentence.
1) Your charge that the man "wouldn't settle down and further endangers..." implies that he had already endangered the emergency crew.
2) It implies that he CONTINUED to ENDANGER them, or anybody, for that matter, when the facts are, the only physical attack was the one done TO him.
3)It stupidly presumes that emergency crews (were) trying to "help." BALONEY. They went into a man's own home and KILLED him with their eogtistical, macho, pro-wrestling crap. And why?? Despite your lies, LV1, all we're left with is that he was "yelling and screaming" in his own home.
And don't tell me not to respond! You are despicable ("Sh*t happens. One less mouth to feed..."). I'll defend decency and human life against people like you EVERY SINGLE TIME. You and those like you are the cross that society must bear to remain decent and protect the innocent from the bad.
For the MOTHER of Tanner- your son was killed in cold blood. Officer O was trained on how to handle hostage situations. He was also trained on how to work with mental illness. But he didn't even try to defuse the situation. 3 of his fellow officers were going to use their training, but Officer O shot your 15 year old son in the head in less than 60 seconds from approaching you both. And it was ruled "JUSTIFIED".
But don't worry, the Universe will see to it that Officer O gets what he deserves for his IMPATIENCE. Ah, patience...such a hard lesson for some to learn.And Officer O will know when his Karma has returned to him. He will know..
.
Metro is out of hand and they all stick together. The Sheriff needs to lose his bid for re election.
DONT FIGHT WITH THE POLICE! Especially if you are a big fat bastard.
It pains me to write this post, for some will cry foul and others will cry in agreement. More painful than its tone with which I take is the fact that our citizens are becoming at risk, more and more each day. Not by criminal activities but by the very servants we employ, painful as that may be, it is near as painful as the travesties from lost lives.
"One-bad-apple-won't-spoil-the-whole-bunch": Meaning- you must separate the bad from the good. If one bad apple is left unattended, it will spoil the apples next to it and cause a snowball effect which will not end until the whole barrel has become rotted and spoiled.
Intervention is sorely needed to correct this recriminate police culture of "Gillespie's Marauders" that is going unchecked by an ombudsman or outside independent agency.
Once again, it pains me dearly to have to point out that a cultural shift is in order within the Valleys LE and until then us citizens are playing 'BINGO" waiting for our number to be up.
I Love LV and all the people here. If we don't correct our actions now we will be lost in the near future. Our actions today are what will make LV tomorrow. We can no longer depend on what LV was, rather we must dig deep to create what LV is becoming. Stop the Hate, petty attitudes are not what gave birth to LV, nor is it what LV is all about.
LV needs to reacquaint itself with charity, tolerance, selfless service, and most of all "Home Means Nevada".
The police in Vegas are doing a fine job. I tip my hat to you.
When the law says to do something, you do it. If you don't agree we have a court system. We even give the broke folks a lawyer if they need one.
We need to thin out the heard of lawless folks. If they choose any other alternative over what the officer says, they get what is coming to them. Death is fine by me.
We have great laws in our city, state, and nation. We just need to enforce them more swiftly.
Thanks Metro and Henderson for the work you do. I smile each time I see someone in cuffs. My taxes are going to good use dealing with those who disregard the laws of the society I live in.
LV1,
DTJ is a clown with an apparent superiority complex when it comes to police. Trying to reason with him is fruitless.
Good job Metro. Continue to thin the herd.
I am fairly confident that in the unlikely circumstance that someone has to call Metro on me, I will be able to deal with them without erratic behavior, excited delirium, or natural gas flooding my house. I won't be armed with any type of weapons or on psych meds. I won't run, curse them out, or fight with them. If I have a problem with the way they treat me I will go to internal affairs, or if it is bad enough, the DA or Justice Department, but I certainly will not try to win that battle on the street during the incident. I will follow the officer's instructions and therefore live to fight another day. Sorry DTJ, no "ha ha ha" for you.
sheep
Well look who shows up right on cue -Shutyertrap, mindless worshiper for any thug with a badge. Nothing "clownish" about my posts, or this discussion, Trappie. But I see that's how you try and mischaracterize what I say, even as you dodge my valid points.
Thank you for your frivolity, Shutyertrap. But more importantly, thank you for being a knee-jerk apologist for everything Metro does. Metro keeps killing the citizenry, and even themselves, through their reckless, egotistical behavior. And as long as they have their apologists, they'll keep on killing. THANK YOU, Shutyertrap. Thank you for all you do.
Myself, I call a spade a spade. I'm on another thread, defending Officer Colling who was put in the terrible situation of having to shoot that young man who held a knife to his own mother's throat. I'm in the minority there, but the officer deserves to be defended. Here in this case, men died in their own homes -not because anybody's life was in imminent danger. No. Because THESE officers had to act like steroid-riddled WWF idiots. But like I said, right on cue, here comes Trappie, doing the one-man wave, he's bowing to Metro so much.
freedom of speech-isn't that the first amendment? all citizens have the right, there is no law that states you cannot speak your mind when the police are around, in fact a case just went to the Supreme Court upholding a citizens right to curse at police officer. If the police don't know the law, then how are we safe?
another thing isn't this the same police dept that was in cohorts with the mob? The movie Casino was in the '80's-somehow did this same police force in partnership with the mob change?
for all that say hey they took a scumbag of the streets, you must like giving up tax dollars to pay for settlements-no need to change metro, lets just keep giving up millions Vegas has it to spare
Phargo) "The police are your friends" Not true some do a great deal of harm. Who do you report an out of control or abusive officer to? Metro? Most of the time Metro does their own investigating so if an officer is involved and is to blame how do you suppose that is reported? Metro should NEVER be allowed to investigate their own. They continue to break the law and engage in questionable practices on an almost daily basis. Many Metro officers are on a power trip and believe everyone is to cower in their presence and expect everyone to be obidieant even if the officer is out of line.(lv1)"The cops ARE entitled to "absolute obedience" or they are resisting arrest. If cops lose control of a situation people die..innocent bystanders, the cop himself. You all seem to forget they have family to go home to just like you and me." This is not corret they are NOT entitled if they are abusing their power. If the officer himself loses control someone dies. Many do go home to a family, but how many of them carry on there power trip at home addressed at family?How many use excessive force at home?
Who does it get reported to Metro? How is a family member to report excessive anything and expect to get help in return when it is another Metro officer doing the investagting?(lv1) "Plenty of crimes happen every day to INNOCENT people." Corret and that is because Metro is out of control. INNOCENT people are being hurt and murdered by the very people we are supposed to trust.(lv1 "I see a 2-year old boy was pulled from a pool., they'll say Metro must have thrown him in!" That statement very well could be true, do you think Metro does NO wrong(odog) is correct "No law enforcement agency should be allowed to investigate any type of accidents, arrest, deaths or crimes that involve currently employed officers. That is a major conflict of interest." (Babybommer) "the police protect their own...at any cost." This is a fact! (unclegig) is correct" If they get away with these crimes it will only make them feel stronger and more enpowered. At home or on the job.
(phargo) "I do absolutely nothing illegal. I'm okay with the way the Metro treats these riff raff." What about the rest of us that do nothing illegal and still get the raff of Metro? It happens even if some out there would like to think otherwise; you do not want to have a Metro officer mad at you or you get their raff. I wonder if you would feel the same way if you or a family member dealt with the raff of an officer just because they can because they are an officer? I wonder of these officers how many have been involed in other incidnets where civilians have died or gotten hurt? They will not state how many times if any of these officers have had complantes before, used excessive force, or beat their dogs and kids.People need to wake up to the fact that Metro has some bad seeds and not everything they do is correct, they abuse their power every day and it gets covered up. They need to be stopped.