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Thursday, May 21, 2009 | 2:02 a.m.
Regarding DeWayne Wickham’s column in Saturday’s Las Vegas Sun, “Cheney’s asking for it, so give him real openness”:
Mr. Wickman’s reference to waterboarding as being torture is so far from the truth. An effective, unpleasant technique to get one to talk, yes. Torture? No!
Every U.S. military air crewman goes through an escape and evasion training course. Part of that course is to experience the same waterboarding techniques that Mr. Wickham refers to as torture.
I have done it and, believe me, you don’t ever want to do it again, but torture it is not. Torture is watching this administration spend our grandchildren’s future on this ridiculous bailout concept, or watching Congress waste time and effort debating gay marriage.
I suggest that Mr. Wickham and those who believe waterboarding is torture change their tune if they haven’t undergone waterboarding. Americans should enjoy the freedoms this great nation offers because of the intelligence our military gathers by employing such techniques.
Our men and women in uniform are able to keep the bad guys at bay and keep us all safe so as to live the free lifestyle we all enjoy.
Dave:
When they subjected you to waterboarding, didn't they tell you the purpose was so you'd be prepared for torture if captured by a barbaric enemy?
What would you admit to to avoid being waterboarded again? and again. and again. think you might "confess" to being the Zodiac killer?
Coming to terms with the fact that waterboarding is torture may keep our freedoms where they should be, above water.
Water boarding suspected terrorists and not taking these people into a courtroom to be judged is losing our freedom. You could be a suspected terrorist (broad term in todays world) and be tortured and at the same time have our elected officials saying that the interrorgation techniques are not torture. I heard a military female officer admit the other day that waterboarding was being used along with other forms of torture, and that waterboarding is torture. When a suspect is screaming for you to stop the waterboarding do you think he is afraid for his life?
The fact Mr. Barton that you have been waterboarded and you don't feel that it was torture, didn't you go into this test knowing that it would soon be over? This was a test? Weren't you going home after the test to have dinner and go to sleep in a bed? Did you have any fear that you might be drug out of bed and waterboarded again, and again and again?
Torture is not just recieving pain, it is a fear that you will be subjected to cruel and unusual punishment at any time and for an unknown length of time. Waiting...
Lets try these people in court so we can put our time into something that will do some good for our country.
Note from JPRA (Who ran SERE) called techniques torture, gathered unreliable info.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...
In 2002, Military Agency Warned Against 'Torture'
Extreme Duress Could Yield Unreliable Information
Actually, only a small percentage of military aviators or special ops operators who attend SERE go through water TORTURE boarding. Remember they voluntarily attend SERE school in order to continue their career. They volunteer to be TORTURED.
Perhaps Mr. Barton would change his tune if he had been water boarded 83 times.
"Anyone who knows what waterboarding is could not be unsure. It is a horrible torture technique used by Pol Pot," - John McCain, October 2007.
I am ashamed to be an Iraqi war vet. I have seen how they treat detainees and it is TORTURE by any definition of the word.
It is clear to me that the Bush administration needs to be prosecuted for crimes against humanity and executed for their crimes. Anything less would be to completely surrender everything that our founding fathers fought for.
The problem with waterboarding and any other method of torture is the fact that those administering the torture don't know what the person on the receiving end knows. So how many finger nails do you pull out of the fingers of an innocent person who doesn't have the information that is being sought? Also, by definition, any method employed whereby the victim of the method being used believes that he or she is going to or about to die or be maimed is torture. Finally, isn't it strange that mostly those, who have never been in war or ever lifted a finger in the defense of this country are the primary pushers of torture techiniques? That is one of the reason that I have always suggested that had Bush gone to Viet Nam instead of in the snug safety of the Guard, we would not be in Iraq today. He would have had a proper appreciation of wars and he would never have sought to start one unnecessarily.
posted by thavith:
"I am ashamed to be an Iraqi war vet. I have seen how they treat detainees and it is TORTURE by any definition of the word.
It is clear to me that the Bush administration needs to be prosecuted for crimes against humanity and executed for their crimes. Anything less would be to completely surrender everything that our founding fathers fought for."
Thank you for your service to this country. I am so glad you survived the war. I wish more of you would come forth and tell it like it really is and shut the mouths of these "experts" that defend Bush and everyone associated with him.
I have heard more from other veterans that returned from Iraq and have expressed the same as you. 4000+ dead due to lies, greed, and their insatiable need for power.
God bless you.
I have come to the conclusion that people like this are not interested in anything more than seeing how many posts they can get... I will gladly oblige...
If waterboarding is legal, why do they not use it when interrogating suspects in US jails.
Also, if a US Soldier is captured tomorrow, is waterboarding legal if Al Queada using the same tool?
And, how come the US prosecuted Japanese for waterboarding in the past?
And, how come the Bush administration denied the waterboarding for the last four or five years?
Finally, everyone spends money (both Dems and Repubs) and at what point has congress debated gay marriage?
We ourselves prosecuted - and ultimately executed - Japanese officials for torture because they used waterboarding on our soldiers. Why do we not hold ourselves to the same standards?
Waterboarding IS torture as defined by international law. Torture IS a crime against humanity. Crimes against humanity are considered so grave there is no immunity or statute of limitations for them. We are obliged to prosecute these crimes. To not prosecute is not just morally wrong, but makes us all complicit in these highest of all crimes.
AG Eric Holder agrees. Shooting someone is not murder either. You must have the intent. For example if you shoot a 14 year old have you committed murder? It depends. The answer is no if you are a security guard at a school where the 14 year old is mowing down the student body with an M-16. But it is murder if the kid is just walking down the street. Likewise waterboarding is a act that can cause extreme discomfort. If you are waterboarded in a training environment then you cannot prosecute the trainers because they do not have the intent to harm eventhough it's the same act being committed. Read AG Holder's own words.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q...
It is necessary to mention that torture is not defined by the feeling of the one to whom the act is being committed. Just because someone says "it was torture" does not make it so. Otherwise sitting in traffic, standing in the corner, or listening to disco can be classified as torture. Which the latter can be if the intent of the person forcing you to listen to it is to torture. Which is my point. Anything can be torture or not. It's not about the action as much as the intent.