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twitterLetter to the editor:
Republicans pull themselves down with Pelosi
Tuesday, May 19, 2009 | 2:04 a.m.
In reference to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, two common sayings come to mind: “When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging,” and, “If you lie, you better have a good memory.”
She is becoming an embarrassment to the Democratic Party and her trashing the CIA is shameless. Her recollections regarding her knowledge of torture/waterboarding conflict with each other, and she has lost credibility.
What is truly amazing, though, is how the Republicans had the capacity and shrewdness to switch all the torture/waterboarding controversy from the George W. Bush-Dick Cheney administration to Pelosi. I would think with all the problems facing our country (the economy, unemployment, health care, two wars) there would not be time for obssessing with what Pelosi did or did not know three or four years ago.
I say to the Republican Party: Rather than continuously displaying a cantankerous and ill-tempered attitude, get back in the loop and focus all your energy and vigorousness toward regaining the respectability and honor the Grand Old Party once held.
Discussion: 41 comments so far…
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Hey LaRue' Yes the Republicans should get back in the loop' Right after Speaker Pelosi resigns from congress You know what they say all's well that ends well.
Pelosi needed the heat turned up on her expose the dispicable person that she is--the deceiving and lying politician she is. The Republicans are capable of multi-tasking. Dems were relentless on the subject. Now it's time for the Republicans to make their case, which they are.
Enough mean spiritedness already. Lets get about fixing the nation. What diffrence does it make what Pelosi did or didn't know? Except, to divert attention away from the real culperts? Enough mean spiritedness already.
Pelosi is not the issue here. The Bush administration used torture to get false confessions so they could go to war against Iraq. The republicans and the CIA are using Pelosi as a smoke screen in hopes of making their shame and guilt go away. What Pelosi knew and what she could have done to stop torture is nothing. She was the leader of the minority party. Come on people, put away your partisan hats and stay focused on the real crime here.
Pelosi cannot quit as Speaker. Who would give harry Reid his orders every morning?
LaRue S. Boenig said "I would think with all the problems facing our country (the economy, unemployment, health care, two wars) there would not be time for obssessing with what Pelosi did or did not know three or four years ago"
But there would be time for Democrats obssessing with what Republican did or did not know years ago.
It needs to be everybody or nobody. Make up your mind.
The 'truth commission' will not just stop at Pelosi on this issue. A pandora's box will be opened and shine the light on ALL of the rats. You want Pelosi? Fine, you can have her. We'll take Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush, Rice, etc.
I am fairly certain this is a trade most dems would love to make. So please..walk right into that trap and keep up the pressure on Pelosi. I want a truth commission in the worst way...like Houstonjac said, the liars must be punished!
Gotta love the Republicans. First their argument was that the torture investigations were a political witch hunt. Then they tried telling us that what they did wasn't really torture. Then they tried telling us that, even if it was torture, it shouldn't be prosecuted. Now they're telling us that yes, it was torture, but Pelosi knew about it, too!
This constant waffling highlights their moral bankruptcy on the issue. To the Republicans, torture is only bad because of the political consequences associated with its exposure. Their only concern is that they not be the only party tarred by this particular brush.
Future_2012, you are absolutely correct when you say it's either everybody or nobody, and as far as I'm concerned "nobody" is not an option. It's what I've been saying all along: this torture investigation needs to bring down all the torturers, regardless of their political party. If it turns out that Nancy Pelosi was complicit she should do her time in jail with all the others who thought up this thoroughly despicable plan.
LaRue. What a joke. Your "concern" about Republican "honor" and "respectability" is laughable on it's face. You can do better than that.
The GOP talking point has shifted so much - first it was "It wasn't torture." Then it morphed into "Even if it was torture, which it wasn't, it wasn't illegal." And now it's "Even if it was torture and it was illegal, Nancy Pelosi knew about it too!"
To which I respond thusly:
1) Since when does the CIA take orders from the Speaker of the House?
2) How can the GOP prove it? The briefings were classified and nobody who was briefed was allowed to take notes. And the CIA has had a history of "shading the truth" when it comes to their clandestine activies.
3) So what? If she knew and did nothing, she deserves to go down for it with the rest of them. I'm not going to pontificate otherwise just because she's a member of the Democratic Party.
Dump NANCY PELOSI now! Call Congress at - 202-224-3121, ask for Nancy Pelosi's office, then ask her to resign her position as Speaker of the House. Be civil and concise in your language.
JohnF - DouglasDemocrat:
Well stated! Whatever ramifications that might shake out about Nancy Pelosi, so be it.
I've been wracking my brain for over a week and for the life of me I cannot understand what Nancy Pelosi, member of the MINORITY PARTY at the time in question, had to do with this.
Then again, I can't wrap my mind around the mind of a dittohead, so I suppose my lack of understanding of this earth-shattering "issue" is to be expected.
What's interesting is that the right wing is STILL pulling out the ol' Weapons of Mass Distraction.
Hey LaRue - The Democrats are the PINHEADS continuously "obsessing" about Bush and Cheney. The subversive and deceitful Nancy Pelosi ironically (and ludricrously) demanding a "truth commission." Democrat Senators Patrick Leahy (D-VT), Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and Dick Durbin (D-IL) demanding an investigation of the Bush-authorized CIA enhanced interrogation techniques. Also, Democrat Congressman John Conyers (D-MI) calling for a Congressional investigation into alleged abuses by the Bush administration. Unfortunately, unlike paranoia, there is not a known treatment for Bush Derangement Syndrome!
Hey News!
You do know that Reagan signed (in 1988) and Congress ratified (in 1994) a treaty prohibiting the use of torture under any circumstances (even threat of war or imminent attack)?
You also know that any treaty so ratified becomes binding federal law under the Constitution?
So a "truth commission" is exactly what needs to be called for - to determine if federal law was broken. And if some Democratic Congresscritters have to take the fall too...well, c'est la vie.
So let's do it and let the chips fall where they may.
Um, "News" .... did you (and do you) say the same thing WRT the right wing and their penchant for STILL wanting to investigate Clinton?
Somehow I doubt it.
At least with BushCheneyCo there were actual wrongdoings ..... wrongdoings that cost many, MANY lives - Americans, Iraqis, Afghanis, etc. etc. etc.
Don't suppose that actually means anything to you, does it?
While going through various explanations, the speaker said in effect, once she became the leader of the party, her first job was to win elections. Now that she has the power, do you think her first job is to do what is right for the country or to keep the power? Party first, of course. It is no different on the republican side either. Neither side has all the answers but they just can't seem to put party in the proper place. As for the Republican's "continuously displaying a cantankerous and ill-tempered attitude" that is play 1A in both party's play book. The Democrats spent the last five or six years doing exactly that in their quest for the power. It is not a Republican or Democrat thing, it is the politics of personal destruction that, unfortunately, is business as usual in Washington.
PatriciaLV - CONGRATULATIONS! You MUST be ANOTHER Oracle of Delphi (like the duplicitous Nancy Pelosi) to KNOW illegalities WERE actually committed by Bush-Cheney!
News, you don't have to be an oracle. You just have to have actually read the United States Code. And saying that your lawyer said it was okay isn't a defense...it's an excuse.
DougDem - Nice attempt at semantical manipulation. "Waterboarding" as used by the CIA, not the harsher Japanese measure of WWII, does not equate with the definition of "torture" as defined in USC, Title 18> Part I> Chapter 113C> S.2340. But, I guess Democrats are (still) trying to figure out what the meaning of "is" is! LOL...
You didn't answer my question, "News".
As to being an oracle, no, I'm not. But lying to get us into a war that has cost thousands of lies ..... well, I'd consider that "wrongdoing".
Apparently in your world a lie about a blow job is much, much worse.
You're the one playing semantic games, News. You can call it "enhanced interrogation" or "safer waterboarding", but the international community says it's torture. And we signed an international treaty forbidding the use of torture.
We're calling a spade a spade. And I'll stand by my interpretation any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Uh, that should read "... cost thousands of LIVES ..."
My bad.
They know they ae in deep s--- so the entire Pelosi incident allows them to not focus on the big issues facing this country. Hey Nancy, Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.
DougDem - Hey, watch that "calling a spade a spade" reference - are you LIBERALS permitted to use that sort of language in your PC paradise? WISE-UP!
PatriciaLV - If you do not understand the larger significance of a President lying about an immoral act committed within the walls of one of our nation's must-revered edifices, then I can NOT help you as you have sadly (and sorely) "missed" a few crucial lessons about morality during your formative years. But, that is a common LIBERAL deficiency, so continue confusing critical concepts in your alternate universe. I find "confronting" ethically-challenged people such as yourself an entertaining experience. LOL...
News1950- You can draw a comparison between a President's semen on a dress to an dead American soldier's blood in the sand of a foreign country? You've got your priorities a little confused. You too would lie about an indiscretion in the same manner as Clinton. A $60,000,00.00 investigation to find out that he was doing what many current men of the cloth do. What a joke!
I could be considered liberal but I would sooner have a sexual indiscretion than see my neighbors son or daughter killed in a bogus war, That's immoral! Ethically challenged my ass, take time to reassess your ethics please.
Also, leave it to a "righty" to drag racism into a unrelated conversation with your "spade a spade" reference. We can see you "missed a few crucial lessons about morality in your formative years."
News:
Wow...nice way to avoid the actual subject and non-sequitor into something completely off subject.
And your moral equivalency is horrific - I felt that Clinton brought shame on himself and the office when he did that, but in no way would I ever say that that is morally the same as what we are discussing here.
News: Not surprised you would think that way, being oh so morally superior, as you apparently are.
I've found over the course of my years that the most (vocally) moral people are usually the most deviant. They feign outrage over so-called "immoral acts", yet their very own closets .... well, I choose not to delve into those dark places.
As others have said, for you to equate a lie about a blow job with the deaths of so many thousands of innocent people ... well, it says all anyone needs to know about you.
And your absolute lack of any morals whatsoever.
Good day.
PatriciaLV and her ILK - You're really a pathetic group of intellectual and moral misfits. I will not attempt to teach a LIBERAL about ethics or morals as that will be similar to trying to teach a PIG to sing. Such a practice annoys the PIG and wastes the time of the practitioner.
Incidentally, I'm curious how many of you sanctimonious LIBERALS ostensibly mourning the loss of innocent lives in Iraq and Afghanistan do not have any problem with ABORTION, or even the abominable practice (and Barack Obama-supported) live-birth abortion procedure? That is how a civilization is judged by history, how they treat (or mistreat) their most vulnerable members. PHONIES!
Wow, News, can you get down off your high horse for just a few moments?
As to your statement - we live in a world of uncertainty. And for the government to tell a pregnant woman that she has to have the baby, even in circumstances where doing so will be fatal to her and the unborn child, is absolutely moronic.
Do I particularly like abortion? No. But I also believe that it's not something that should be decided by the state.
And question for you: if you're such a proponent of life, what's your stance on the death penalty?
DougDem: If a pregnant woman did not require the services of the state to put her in that condition, then why, must the state now be responsible (government-funded abortion)in eliminating her condition?
"why, must the state now be responsible (government-funded abortion)in eliminating her condition?"
And that whooshing sound you heard was the point going right over your head.
The point, News, is that the state should not tell a woman what they can and cannot do with their own body. That's between her, her doctor, and God (take your pick on the order).
You really want to go back to those halcyon days when the wealthy would send the pregnant daughter off to Europe for a "holiday", and poor and middle-class women would resort to either throwing themselves down the stairs or going to back-alley "clinics"?
And don't tell me it's "God's will" that a woman should die as a result of a pregnancy that turns bad. If that's the case, you must be reading from a different Bible than most of us.
I'll make this clear and simple for your convoluted sense of reason - so the state should NOT tell a woman what to do with her body, but SHOULD pay for her abortion if she wants them to do so? More faulty LIBERAL "logic." I do NOT want ANY of my tax-dollars financing abortions! Is that simple enough for your LIBERAL sensitivities?
You continue to miss my point. Throw up all the non-sequitors and insults you want, but you're still advocating that the state should tell a pregnant woman that she can't get an abortion even if carrying the baby to term would kill both her and the unborn child.
Such compassion. If anyone's logic is faulty, it's yours. And until you answer this comment directly (no more tangents), I see no sense in wasting my time on someone who is deliberately obtuse.
You're using a subterfuge in your argument. You're proposing a life/death abortion situation to make a point when your real intention is to grant gratuitous access to abortions for ALL women regardless of whether such a procedure is an urgent medical necessity or not. I will not waste any more time discussing this subject with someone that posits such a disingenuous position.
News,
Who died and made you god! (if there truly is a god) to impose your beliefs on anyone. If you don't believe in abortion that is your right, but it is not your right to tell others what they can and can not do with their bodies.
As for the statement, "I do NOT want ANY of my tax-dollars financing abortions"! Like you have a choice in the matter, if everyone had a choice on what they wanted their tax dollars to go to and not go to we would never survive as a country.
Bush2Hater - Who made Barack Obama and the Congressional Democrats GOD to tax-and-spend our nation into the deepest of debt for generations into the future? Not to mention jeopardizing our national security with lunatic "leaders" like the lying and subversive Nancy Pelosi? I was born and raised in New York City and was present in Queens on that saddest of days (9-11-01). If there is another terrorist attack on US soil, I hope you and your dim-witted, treasonous ilk will be at Ground Zero!
News,
Your point being I proudly served in Iraq in the USMC in 2004 and lost a few friends during my time. I proudly served at the time thinking that the Iraq war was a just cause. Like most of us I was duped into believing that there were potential weapons of mass destruction, only to find out later that it was a huge lie.
How do I explain to my lost brothers that they lost their lives to a war that we should have never been at in the first place? How do I explain to my wife and daughter that sorry I missed a year out of their life where dad was not there because I was at an unjust war risking my life for no reason but a huge lie?
Think before you point the finger, the only unjust person here is "Bush" and "Bush" only. Nancy is merely a pawn to steer the facts away from the Republican Party and there lies.
Bush2Hater - I commend you for your military service and sacrifice. But, many including Bill and Hillary Clinton and Colin Powell ALL originally believed the NIE reports that Saddam Hussein had WMD's. After all, did he not use poison gas on his own people (Kurds) and against Iran during the 10-year war? Also, did he not (suspiciously) repeatedly refuse UN inspectors a tour of Iraqi sites? Were the WMD's secreted out of Iraq into Syria prior to the US military operation, or did they ever exist? No one will ever know for sure. Nevertheless, the initial military operation had been conducted in "good faith" and did generate several beneficial results - the removal of a genocidal dictator responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of his own people, and a chance for democracy to emerge in Iraq. The merits or mistake of Iraq, like Vietnam (my era) will be eventually judged by historians from a less personal and passionate perspective.