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twitterHundreds hit Vegas streets for immigration reform
Marchers hope Obama brings a pathway to legalization
Sam Morris
Destiny Padilla gets a lift from her father Jose Padilla during an immigrant rights march up the Strip on Friday.
Friday, May 1, 2009 | 8 p.m.
Sun archives
About 300 people marched along Sahara Avenue and up the Strip this evening, a reprise of the nationwide May Day marches for immigration reform that began three years ago.
Once again, many of those in the crowd had a personal stake in the issue, being among the estimated 2 million families in the United States with at least one family member bereft of legal status in the country.
Like Arturo Gonzalez, who has lost a brother and sister to deportation over the years while helping build hundreds of homes across the valley as a cement worker. Even his children are divided as to immigration status, with some illegally in the country.
And once again, many of the people marching today worked for the valley's two main employers, casinos and construction. There were also a healthy number of college students.
They hoped the Obama administration would finally push through what has become known as comprehensive immigration reform, with strengthened enforcement but also a pathway to legalization for millions. They also clamored for a stop to the ripping apart of millions of families through deportation.
But this time, the thinning of the crowd by at least 100-fold when compared to 2006 showed that times have changed for the issue.
Back then, Spanish-language radio DJs with national audiences blustered about "this historic moment."
For many people who marched in 2006, the very act of going up the Strip was symbolic. A large crowd of mostly hourly workers, mostly Hispanic, had closed down part of one of the most moneyed streets on the planet, marching past the palaces many of them help operate.
Gene Moehring, chairman of UNLV's history department, called it "probably the largest political march down the Las Vegas Strip in history,"
Experts consulted by the Sun said the march may have been from 18,000 to 79,000 people, with a safe estimate being somewhere between 35,000 and 50,000.
Hugo Calderon, then 19, remembers that march as having "so much momentum." Now, the UNLV student said, "more people feel like it's a non-issue" -- in part because they believe having a Democrat in the White House and a Democrat-controlled Congress means reforming immigration laws is just a matter of time.
But the problem for Obama and the Congress right now, he said, are "the other issues": the economy, wars overseas, a possible pandemic.
Ivon Meneses brought her six children to the march. She is in her second year of being a single mom after her husband was forced to remain in Mexico for a decade before he can become a legal resident through his marriage to her, a citizen.
Meneses, a porter at the Wynn casino, said she hoped marchers like her would "touch somebody's heart" so that immigration laws could be changed and her children could see their father again.
Other differences from 2006: not a Mexican flag appeared in the march, and there was an attempt to reach out to people from non-Hispanic countries.
This was to show the cause as a broader, national issue, not us vs. them.
Hossein Mokhtar was there, an Iranian refugee who arrived to Las Vegas nine years ago.
He was also in the 2006 march. Now, he said, "more people are terrorized politically and economically" -- meaning, he explained, that they were worried about losing their jobs or getting in trouble for marching.
Also, he noted, the media seemed less interested in the issue now.
But Gonzalez, who was last in line as the march snaked west on Sahara, remained optimistic.
He noted how hard he and other immigrants he knows have worked in Las Vegas and elsewhere, and said legalizing their status could only help the economy.
"If they give us papers," he said, "We'll feel even more a part of the country, and spend even more on everything."
Discussion: 102 comments so far…
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So... our casinos are employing illegal immigrants? I am new to Vegas and was not aware of this. I came from Arizona, who had just put eVerify in place. Nevada needs eVerify. That way we know that the jobs in this state go to LEGAL citizen's.
I never cared for these May Day marches. I got so irritated from the first one when the marchers would carry the Mexican flag and scream in Spanish about how they WANT American citizenship.
I'm sorry, but if Obama's administration signs some sort of amnesty bill, we will have a ton more illegal immigrants running into this country for the next amnesty bill.
This is getting ridiculous...
Lord have mercy, you all need it. Deal with all as humans!
I want one person to tell me when illegal immigration was only about Hispanics?
I know we have a problem in our North West with white illegal immigrants from Russia, Chech, Slovakia.
We have a problem in the South West with South Americans, be it from Mexico, Brazil, Honduras, etc.
In the South East we have illegal immigrants from mainly Cuba, and I don't know how to scratch the surface of New York, Armenian, South East and South West Asians.
I want to know why I can't put up a fence to keep ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS out without some feeble minded liberal calling me a racist.
I have a fence around my house for the same reason, to keep things out of my yard that I don't want. I wouldn't mind the stray dog now and then but the Bible Salesman; no, absolutely not!
Why can't I have a fence around my country, the one I defended for 15 years, including combat so that we can keep our country as clean as my yard. Tell me that Mr. & Mrs. ACLU?
http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stori...
I can settle this argument reference "jobs that Americans don't want."
Tell the Americans that they will be allowed to erect a fence around our country, it will be funded if we all agree to a 1/2cent sales tax nation wide.
Anyone want to bet that the fence would be built, be durable, old school American craftsmanship, and not one illegal immigrant would show up to help.
I also think with the revenue generated by the half penny tax increase that we could afford to pay a living wage to all legal immigrants to round up the illegal ones and throw them out, or at least over the newly constructed fence.
The only down side; we would have to re-learn english and get use to not having 40 kids in a classroom, and this will shock most of you but I think we would again be allowed to utter those hateful words in public once again, you know the ones- In God We Trust.
When you see this demonstration remenber 10% of the workforce in Las Vegas is illegal aliens.
Our unemployment rate in Clark County is 10.5%, logic would dictate that if all illegal aliens could be rounded up and deported we would have an unemployment rate of les than 1%.
The question you should ask of the new adminstration is why where illegal aliens allowed to march down a public street without a fear of arrest? When will the "Change we can believe in adminstration" enforce the immigration laws of this country and begin to care for Americans and legal residents?
Its your country, what are you doing to keep it?
During The Great Depression, President Herbert Hoover ordered the deportation of ALL illegal aliens in order to make jobs available to American citizens that desperately needed work.
Harry Truman deported over two million Illegal's after WWII to create jobs for returning veterans.
And then again in 1954, President Dwight Eisenhower deported 4 million Mexican nationals!
The program was called 'Operation Wetback' so that American WWII and Korean veterans had a better chance at jobs.
mar100, where do you get these "facts?" And what kind of "logic" are you using for your supposition that unemployment in Vegas would fall to 1% if the illegals are rounded up and shipped back?
I understand, but do not agree with, illegals working here. If you want to skirt the law, prepare to pay the consequences if you are caught. Don't bitch about it.
The main thing that should happen is that the people making money off the backs of illegals in the farm fields, slaughterhouses and casinos be held accountable.
I know Nevada needs e-verify,the whole country needs e-verify.We are being invaded by another country with the help of our own government officials.This needs to stop!!They openly admit that they hire illegal immigrants at our casinos and construction sites,while legal americans are unemployed.Our elected politcians know that most americans are against amnesty,but they just don't care!I know Harry Reid is a strong supporter of this amnesty bill.The author of this article Mr. Pratt sounds so sympathetic to the plight of illegals,but not very sympathetic to our,what was it he called it,Oh yes,our issues,like our economy,our war overseas,the flu pandemic.Mr. Pratt mention these like they are secondary to granting amnesty to law breakers!! I don't hate anyone,but I do love my country.If the people from Mexico really wanted to be americans and love an honor this nation that would be one thing but the majority of them don't.I'm sorry but if they missed their loved ones so much they can always go home and be with them.I think the turn out was low because they probably do know that they don't need too.That is unforunate for this great country!!
Excuse me...But YES there was a Mexican flag and it was waved attached to the American flag..actually it was attached ABOVE the red white and blue. And when some of the participants returned back up the strip, past my place of employment They were letting our nations flag DRAG the ground. That appalled me. This is NOT MEXICO. QUIT trying to make it MEXICO. Learn English, respect our laws. THAT will CHANGE things...
Maybe its time for Americans to hit the streets to demand IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT.
The INS should have been down there rounding up illegals.
from a different point of view, i have a friend who is british wants to invest money in las vegas, wants to employ people, yet he is having to jump through hoops to prove he is viable for a visa, WHY?
exactly mike, what better way to pick all these slugs up, they gathered right there all in one place to get grabbed up.....these people are out of control, come into this counrty ILLEGALLY then have the gall to walk down the street protesting and demanding things......what has this counrty become.....I am ashamed of the way our government acts, folks America as we all know it is slowly fading away, our forfathers are turning in their graves over what they worked so hard for we are giving away.....trash like these illegal slugs need to be rounded up and forced back....fences, armed guards and dogs needed to be used to keep these criminals out I will gladly pay extra taxes to fight this out of control crime
I've been trying to warn of the Dream Act '09. Qnty. 2 Bills:
The House of Representatives; H.R.1751
The Senate; S.729
Unemployment in Clark County( this number is the amount of citizens collecting unemployment, citizens who have run out of unemployment benefits are not included in this total) is over 100,000 citizens. We are allowing illegals to take away casino and construction jobs and allowing our unemployment to rise.
Oh, yes, let's not forget that they just shut down the Fountain Bleau construction site, more Americans on the breadlines.
The rule of thumb of legal immigration, is, The immigrant must assimilate,to absorb into the culture or mores of a population or group, to American lifestyle. Where does it state that while we as American Citizens are suffering with this economy, we have to sit back and watch as illegal immigrants are taking home paychecks. Fences won't stop this, we have got to start screaming at our Senators and house members and let them know that e-verify must be used in the work place to guarantee that illegals are not taking Americans' jobs. Visa cards and greencards must come to an end untill all Americans who want to work are back to work. Our elected officials must start upholding our laws and start showing that the American Citizen is number one. We will only vote in the incumbent or candidate who shows us that we, as citizens are first on their agendas.
First amnesty doesn't work, Regan did it and it didn't stop the illegal immigration. I fact I think it made it worst. Why wouldn't you sneak into the country if you know that a few years down the road you would be given amnesty for breaking the law? We all know all the problems with illegal's, crime, gangs, welfare abuse, and health care and so on. That last sentence make me sound like a racist bigot, I don't mean for it to but a lot of people feel and think this about illegal immigrants. It comes down to if you broke the law to get into this country, you should be sent home.
What makes Americans really angry is something like this. True story, happen to my family when we lived in southern California in 1993. My son was in the 3rd grade and not doing well in school. I called the school and asked if they could recommend a tutor for my son, the school said that they could not do that. Then they asked if we spoke Spanish, I said no, the school said that that was to bad. Because, if we did speak Spanish, not only would they get us a tutor, but sent them to our home at no cost to us. Because I'm a legal citizen I receive less help and or have less rights than an illegal, and the government doesn't get why were tick off!
Don't worry ninemile you are not a racist. You are not badmouthing a citizen because of their race, color or religion. We have races in our country, other countries have races within their borders. You are not a racist for making a statement about an illegal immigrant who is breaking federal laws in our country.
America is a Nation of laws, we have them to protect the citizens who pay taxs for representation.
When America's Polititians fail to address the needs of the people who have elected them into office then revolution is around the corner.
I as an American who has bleed for my country believe we need to have bigger and better security for our boarders, airports, and seaports, but most of all I think America needs politians who are altruistic, doing what is good for our country and not expediant for their war chests.
The first amendment is quite clear on freedom of religion, of speech, of the press, to petition, and to assemble (no single laungauge need be the only one spoken in the land that represents the government).
I have a right as an American to use any langauge to plead my case- as was the norm of our "Fore Fathers" to keep from disenfrancising the citizens of this beautiful republic.
Forthermore, the poeple who fleed to the new world fleed from religion, which makes America a place without any single religion sponsored by the government. Sorry if you think America is only Cristian. En Shalah!
Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Washington-based Center for Immigration Studies, which favors more restrictive immigration policies, said that because adult illegal immigrants are not eligible for most government programs, they are less likely to use government services than legal immigrants.
But Sorensen also said, all illegal immigrants pay sales taxes and most probably pay income taxes. Studies have shown they're less likely to commit crimes.
I am just concerned who is going to pay 4x what they pay at the grocery store for the produce they buy, or who wants to pay 2x more for the bad service in and around the shops in America.
Yes there where those repatriation bills in America at one time as where the bills to bring in farm labors in the 1940's to help when all the men where in Europe fighting the war.
America has had a colored past in trying to control it's immigrantion population, there where the Chinese, Japanese, Irrish, Germans, Mexicans, etc... What will come of this era only history will tell.
Hate crimes are a dervite of prejudise, and will only fan the fires of a mob mentality which makes America less safe for all of us, if we continue to act like the coments posted herein.
We all know what other countries are like without law and order or human rights, people take the law into their own hands to cut the hands off of others.
Settle down... quit bouncing.
one thing everyone forgets is this
no-one other than native indians are from america!! most are originally from europe
i think we should allow people in who will do the following
1) Increase employement
2) Offer a service or labor force in an area locals won't work in
3) Offer assylum to those who really need it
4) Invite investors into america with open arms, by god we need them, without outside investment america will eventually collapse
currently the government allow people who are simply cheap labor, rather than inviting people in with money, there is an ideal chance now, as britain is increasing taxes people are leaving their country with money where would they be best taking their money? USA of course, this will cause investment, increase work and bring us out of depression.
How would any American citizen feel if he lost his job, or can't get a job due to an illegal alien taking his or her spot. Why is it so hard for our government not to uphold the laws? Why does our government not even try to help our citizens? Where do their agendas lie? Who can we as Americans trust to protect us?
LOOK
Numbers USA
Dream Act 2009
http:www.numbersusa.com/content/news/march-30-2009/dream-act-amnesty-reintroduced-congress.html
Gunslinger a10, markp,
I agree with you. Our problems aren't the small percentage of undocumented workers in this country. This issue is gets so much attention because it feeds into racism and it offers an "easy solution.
Closing the border to Mexico is 1) impossible and 2) stupid. The Mexicans are our good friends, neighbors and allies. If the English only goons (can you speak more than one language?) would were as motivated to learn another language as the average day laborer they would learn this. I travel to Sonora once a month. I have seen the wall and it is embarrassing and ridiculous. Ridiculous because even old women can cross it and embarrassing because we are the country that tears walls down - we don't build them. This is a polar to the morals and ethics to what I learned as a boy in school, as a boy scout, and as a member of the USAF.
The people we need to worry about competing with are the Indians and the Chinese. While our government is rabble rousing about poor people who come here to work in the lowest jobs on the job ladder, they are allowing corporations to export high paying jobs, not pay taxes and letting WALMART alone be one of China's biggest trading partners. How many jobs do you think WALMART has cost Americans?
Just like the "to big to fail" banks, and the sneaky stuff they did that brought us to the brink of hell, there are other corporations, Like Halliburton and Blackstone and Exxon, who are commiting the same kinds of crimes.
The problem is, these issues are complex. Too complex to report on and to complex for many people to try to understand. Its just easier to blame everything on some poor cook or gardener.
Shame on those Americans who dont welcome there people into our society who want to work. We need them.
If the parade had ANY other people of any other race marching, that were obviously involved in law-breaking, they would have been arrested on the spot.
Why wave the Mexican flag anywhere near our Flag? If you love Mexico so much, by all means go back and stay back in Mexico. For the families that are separated from loved ones that have been deported because they are breaking the law..go back to Mexico and be reunited with them.
The jobs that illegals are taking from LEGAL citizens are NOT the jobs that we don't want to do, in fact they are the very jobs that families need to stay afloat during these hard times.
Don't justify illegals being in this country because they may, or may not be doing work that we may, or may not want to do. Right now legal citizens are on the streets begging for jobs, any job, to keep their families afloat.
Can you image a march for WHITE, lawbreakers downtown? There would not be one ounce of misplaced sympathy for White, rapists who wanted massive pardons.
My son served a tour in the Marines to defend this country for LEGAL Americans, he would have gladly given his life to defend this country. What would these criminals give up for this country? They won't even give up their flag. They have no respect for our country, they just want to take, take, take. I wonder how many illegals get subsidized housing, food stamps and help with rent from our country.
The bottom line: Illegals need to go back to Mexico and file papers to come into this country legally, just like everyone else.
Then, casino jobs would be available for citizens that are losing their home. Show some respect for our country, show your familes that you are a law-abiding person and stop rationalizing coming into our country illegally.
Follow the laws of our country and stop taking jobs from legals citizens that need the work.
Don't ever drag our Flag that our children fight, and die for on the ground!
without illegals cleaning the toilets and doing the work americans dont want to do who would you employ to do those jobs? or would you prefer to sit on dirt when you go to toilet?
CronkyVoddy the way your talking tells me that you would not have a problem giving up your job to an illegal alien. Ask the Americans who aren't working how they feel that there are illegals out there taking hotel and construction work away from them. Ask any American Citizen if they aren't mad towards their elected officials as they are spending more time helping non-citizens before citizems.It is the American Citizens turn to have our laws enforced to where we feel our elected officials are making us a priority.
fremmasmind you have some interesting comments, but you dont seem to understand simple financials,
1) Cheap labour is always required (iilegals fill this void)
2) Without money from europe vegas would no longer exist the european banks are lending to keep vegas going at the expense of taxpayers in those countries, most americans came from europe! where did the mafia come from????????
3) The government need to change immigration laws, but more along the lines of invite people in with money or who are making work for others such as small business owners from outside the states, who want to open an office and offer some form of employment
4) Immigrants are what made america 90% of americans are immigrants
in the early days the immigrants were basically illegal, they landed and took all the land and invited their friends over, somewhat like an invasion
what you need to worry about is the big corps which dont pay tax, have a head office in a tax free country, take all the money out of the USA and rape the people for every bit of profit they can, like "tescos do in the UK" this is what ruins countries, look what the great big banks have done, they are the ones who put us in this mess not the mexicans who simply want to feed their children, the bankers walked away with billions of $ in bonuses, the average illegal earns what $5 an hour?
It makes me angry when people say they are taking jobs, when the banks have destroyed everything and caused a 2nd depression......
What jobs do mexicans do? the ones we don't want to!!!! I for one would put my hand down a toilet or climb 300foot to hang from a steel frame to build city center for the greedy profits for casinos
Try holding some kind of American demonstration in Mexico and see where it lands you. The federales will swoop you up in a minute. Funny (or not so) how the very things the illegals do here would land any American in the pokey if they tried to do likewise in anothers country. I notice how they all want to wave American flags when they're trying to convince Obama to make them 'legal' - yet take a look at the cars they drive- with their Mexican flag emblems plastered all over and every word scribbled over their junk pile (oops I mean car) written in Spanish. For these demos they put on a good 'show' of their committment to America but it's their day to day activity that really tells the whole story. Since they're all gathered together maybe we should line the busses up - all headed south - no need to ferret out the illegals - you've got boys now do your job - round em up and ship em out - how much easier can it get for INS to FINALLY start doing their job?
MarkP you must not have knowledge of the Greencard thru investment. Foreigners can obtain a greencard through investment by proving that they have got money to invest when they enter into our country. Actually they recieve more deductions than an American running a small company does. If you don't see the problem with illegals in our country than YOU are part of the problem also.
Why dont they just round them up at theses marches? We know they are all illegals so just show up with some buses and take them all away. Load them up and drive them back across the border. I know that ICE was taking pictures for future reference but why not just pick them up right then? Law enforcement should be out there cuffing them up and checking the status of all these illegals.
Thank you for your thoughtful post, CronkyVoddy; you echoed my sentiments exactly.
CronkyVoddy has the only salient comment in this entire thread. And the irony is that no one else on this thread realizes ..... well, the irony of it all.
Funny how you never hear any of these people (examples on this very thread) complain about the good jobs being shipped overseas or how it's near impossible to buy anything in this country that was actually made in this country. Wonder why this doesn't seem to bother them. I was in the IT field some years back & I watched those jobs start to go to H1B visas from India. Soon they just sent the jobs TO India so their bottom lines (and their bank accounts) were well-padded.
As an aside ..... if any of you really want to be taken seriously, refrain from posting links such as "NUMBERSUSA".
My apologies to markp & Gunslinger; you also made excellent points. Sorry for the oversight.
So, I guess it makes it O.K. when illegals pay taxes on their income they make in the United States. I guess the taxes they pay go into their personal account with their S.S.N. on it. I'm sure when it's time to retire they can then draw retirement on the taxes they've paid in. That's funny!
Our rights as citizens tells us that we have laws that must be upheld. These people are breaking these laws by stealing jobs from American Citizens as they break the laws of unlawful entry into our country. PatriciaLV if you don't help resolve this problem than you are part of the problem.
The point is that America is a free country with opportunity because people have fought and died to create this land of opportunity. If these people are so motivated to change the laws and revise how government operates, if they're so driven to have things their own way, why don't they go home and create the society they long for. Why don't they go march and politic in their own country! As long as Mexican's only want to come to America, Mexico will never cease being a 3rd world country where people die of swine flu.
I'm wondering how many of these male illegals have signed up with the Selective Service, after all it is a federal law that they do so. Or, maybe this law doesn't apply to them either.
http://foreignborn.com/visas_imm/immigra...
This is a chart of who must register:
http://www.sss.gov/must.htm
This is why the government actually wants them here:
http://usliberals.about.com/od/immigrati...
However, I don't believe there is a surplus of funds in Social Security, but most likely lining someone's pocket with anything that might be collected from the illegals.
As for the woman with 6 kids, sounds to me like a separation from her hubby isn't exactly a bad thing. At the rate they were going, she could wind up pumping kids out like Octomom. Take those 6 kids to Mexico so you can be a family there. You knew he was illegal when you married him.. This is how that statement touched my heart.
I honestly can't understand why they are whining about being separated from their families, when the solution is simple. Go be with your family, no one is stopping you, but you!!!!!
Gee thanks Gonzalez re:
"If they give us papers," he said, "We'll feel even more a part of the country, and spend even more on everything."
First off that sounds like a threat. Spend more on everything? So, you're holding back your spending unless the feds give you papers? I don't believe you for a minute!
It is a well known fact that the money is sent to Mexico. I remember the banners in the windows of BofA, saying "Free money wiring to Mexico", as well as giving you credit cards and bank accounts. It didn't say free money wiring to Russia, Chech, Slovakia or any other place in the world, so obviously there is a huge market for it.... Preferential treatment for the Mexican illegals, above citizens, and even illegals from other countries? Yep I think so...
WEIRD! NOT A WORD HARDLY FROM THE MEDIA ABOUT THE CROWDS OF AMERICANS JOINING THE TEA PARTIES? BUT A LOT OF CONCERNS FOR THE RALLIES OF ILLEGAL ALIENS DEMANDING RIGHTS?
Don't change this LAW? Just rigidly enforce the 1986 Simpson/Mazzoli bill, the Immigration Reform & Control Act. Demand Politicians enforce the above and the E-Verify system mandated. The job magnet will disappear and Illegal Immigrants will go home, opening jobs for Americans. Too much to comment on, regarding the Illegal alien invasion and it's cultural, language, society and financial consequences. Find the ugly answers of taxes, costs, environment and OVERPOPULATION at these websites. If you really want to fight back? NUMBERSUSA
Knowing that Amnesty will be passed secretly behind closed doors, no matter what the consequences under a Democratic-Socialist majority? Those 20.000 in town protesting equals another 200.000, because once legalized there want to bring in their Mothers, Fathers, Sisters, Brothers, Uncles, Aunts, Cousins, Nieces. All those they can sponsor, by signing an affidavit that they will not become a financial burden on the population. However our government does not enforce this law and then the Taxpayer ends up paying for their upkeep. Their handicapped and infirm can apply for SSI, SDI without ever paying into the system. These people know the the welfare government benefits, better than the majority of Americans. KEEP MULTIPLYING THE NUMBER UNDER CHAIN MIGRATION LAWS! Sick old folks end up on dialysis machines, that cost around 100.000 dollars a year and their sponsor pays nothing! Nor does the parasite business that hires cheap labor.
But it is perforated with loopholes, so new arrivals and their U.S.-born children (anchor Babies--intentional misinterpretation of emancipation for African Slaves after the Civil War) often become lifelong public burdens. A blockbuster example is the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC). Economics writer Ed Rubenstein's new report, "The Earned Income Tax Credit and Illegal Immigration: A Study in Fraud, Abuse, and Liberal Activism," The author says immigrants collected about $12 billion from the EITC last year, the majority not paying a cent towards it. Robert Rector of the Heritage Foundation found high school-dropouts-who headed households pay an average of $9,700 a year in taxes but collect an average of $32,138 a year in benefits. All this money in real dollars is procured from unaware taxpayers. THIS IS CALLED CHAIN MIGRATION. Surf NUMBERSUSA for the truth not the propaganda you expect for the open border zealots.
Those who favor continuing to allow illegal aliens to flood into the U.S. regularly tout our supposed need for "cheap labor" as the primary justification for ignoring our immigration laws. Unfortunately, for U.S. taxpayers this "cheap labor" is proving to be incredibly expensive.
Robert Rector and his colleagues at the Heritage Foundation sought to quantify the burden that is being imposed on American taxpayers by the 12 to 17 million illegals that currently reside in this country. Rector's research revealed that a household headed by an individual without a high school education, which included about two-thirds of the illegal alien population, costs U.S. taxpayers more than $32,000 in federal, state and local benefits. Granted, such a family would presumably pay some level of taxes, but the average of $9,000 a year paid in taxes by such families will result in a net tax burden or $22,449 per illegal alien household per year.
Over the household's lifetime that translates to a cost of $1.1 million that taxpayers must cover.
If the low-ball estimate of 12 million illegals is used as a guide that means illegals will cost U.S. taxpayers about $2.2 TRILLION over the next ten years. Many experts believe that a better estimate of the illegals population would be closer to 20 million, meaning the actual cost would be in excess of $3.5 TRILLION.
Either figure makes it clear that "cheap" labor fueled by illegal aliens is anything but cheap.
When Rector and the Heritage Foundation produced their report the "let them in" lobby claimed that these figures wildly overstated the cost of the illegals.
However, new data from Los Angeles County indicates that the estimated cost may actually be low! LA County Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich indicated that illegal aliens and their families in Los Angeles County collected over $35 million in welfare and food stamp allocations a month in a recent report.
According to the report, illegals collected nearly $20 million in welfare assistance for that month and an additional $15 million in monthly food stamp allocations. The estimated annual cost of providing those services to illegals in that single county is estimated to be $440 million.
Antonovich explained that an additional $220 million was incurred by the county for public safety and another $400 million for healthcare for these same illegals. That brings the total annual cost to taxpayers to over $1 billion a year -- and that figure does not even include the skyrocketing costs of education for the illegals and their families.
The economic impact of illegal immigration pales in comparison to the human costs our nation incurs each year. Thousands of LEGAL Americans are murdered or seriously injured by illegals who commit serious crimes on our streets. At the end of the day, the costly qualitative and quantitative impact of illegal immigration on the United States is immeasurable. It should also be utterly unacceptable.
revtomperl said:
"Lord have mercy, you all need it. Deal with all as humans!"
We deal with all lawbreakers, both American and foreign lawbreakers, as humans. But when a human, both American and foreign humans, violate the law, that human is arrested. Sounds fair to me.
markp said:
"one thing everyone forgets is this
no-one other than native indians are from america!! most are originally from europe"
Totally irrelevant to the problem of illegal immigration here in the United States in the year 2009. By the way, the first Native Americans were also immigrants as they came to North America from Asia.
CronkyVoddy:
"Shame on those Americans who dont welcome there people into our society who want to work. We need them."
Actually it's shame on people like you who support these foreign lawbreakers. So, do you also support American lawbreakers?
We already have a process in place to accommodate foreigners who want to come here to live and work. It's called LEGAL immigration. Approximately one million foreigners manage to follow our immigration laws and legally enter our country each year. These legal immigrants are more than welcome to come here to live and work because they obeyed our laws. Illegal aliens are lawbreakers, pure and simple. They have no respect for our laws and they have no right to be in this country. We don't need illegal aliens in this country for any reason. If e need more foreign workers, Congress can increase the number of visas that are issued each year to accommodate the need for these additional foreign workers.
markp said:
"without illegals cleaning the toilets and doing the work americans dont want to do who would you employ to do those jobs? or would you prefer to sit on dirt when you go to toilet?"
What an absolutely ignorant thing to say. First, there are NO jobs that Americans won't do. You've been brainwashed by racist organization such as National Council of La Raza to repeat stupid, baseless "facts" like that. Second, just for sake of argument, even if we couldn't find enough American workers who wanted to clean toilets, we could easily find enough foreign workers who would be willing to come here LEGALLY to clean toilets or to do any other job that needed to be done.
markp said:
"4) Immigrants are what made america 90% of americans are immigrants
in the early days the immigrants were basically illegal, they landed and took all the land and invited their friends over, somewhat like an invasion"
Actually, LEGAL immigrants are what "made America". Illegal aliens are not legal immigrants. 90% of Americans are NOT immigrants. The majority of Americans were born in the United Statres and so they were never immigrants.
In the early days, there were no established immigration laws. You can't violate a law that doesn't exist. So the first Europeans (who were the Spaniards) were NOT illegal aliens as they weren't violating any laws by coming to North America. At the worst, they were unwelcome visitors.
Also, press one for English or hang up! I am tired of seeing Spanish in places it doesn't belong. Namely, in the voting booths, printed on election material, and si, our schools! It's no wonder that so many people get by here without learning English. There is absolutely no incentive to do so.
Harley and bartlebee excellent posts!
"PatriciaLV if you don't help resolve this problem than you are part of the problem."
If you can paste anything I wrote that would indicate either my (a) hiring of illegals; and/or, (b) support, I'll concede I'm "part of the problem". And just to be clear, it's not for YOU to decide what I should or should not do in any situation under any circumstance. Clear?
What YOU and your fellow xenophobes on this thread don't seem to understand is that YOU are MORE of a problem to the United States of America than any illegal could ever be.
Most of the racist comments on this thread need no reply as the rantings speak for themselves. Lucky for you that the US still holds dear to freedom of speech.
My dear Patricia, race has nothing to do with illegal aliens. The U.S. has different races amongst it's citizens because of their ancestry who brought their blood over legally from another country and followed the laws that were put before them By the United States Government. A citizen from another country does not belong to a race compared to an American, they belong to a nationality, the country of which they were born by legal parents of that country. Racism has nothing to do with illegal aliens.
Hi Patricia... I for one don't care what race anyone is, that's not part of the equation. I do tire of the race card being played out of context. Yes, there are and always will be racists out there, just like there will always be criminals.
I'm not anti-Mexican, I'm anti-illegal alien. There is a difference. I don't dislike or have any disrespect for a Mexican descendant. If they are American born, or have come in the "front door" (here legally), then I have no problem with them whatsoever.
What I do take issue with, and it appears to me that most in this thread are of like mind, is people are entering this country in groves ILLEGALLY. Illegal is the key word...Lawbreakers.
I am a law biding citizen. I don't condone ANYONE breaking the law. The illegals are blatantly breaking the law the minute they cross the border. They are breaking the law by stealing SS numbers from people or carrying fraudulent green cards, drivers licenses or any other counterfeit document. If they are here illegally then they have to falsify most everything... jobs that they acquire are acquired illegally. It isn't just their fault. The corporations that hire them are breaking the law as well, and they should be shut down for doing so.. Shame on the government for not upholding the law! Bottom line.. not a race issue.
Only in the U.S. can people illegally come here and then protest that they want stuff from the government. They should have done an immigration crack down at their protest.
Just who do these ILLEGAL ALIENS think they are demonstrating on American soil for AMNESTY? Yes, who? These ILLEGAL ALIENS are destroying American and if we don't get rid of them soon, American will become a cess pool just like mexico. It's time for ZERO TOLERENCE with these ILLEGAL ALIENS. It's time for them to get back to their own country where they belong. They don't belong here!
Is Nevada ready for a State Illegal Immigration Law like Oklahoma, Arizona, Mississippi, South Carolina and a number of other States, yet? Get rid of the ILLEGAL ALIENS and you get rid of all the problems that go with them, including demonstrating on American soil.
I am not your "dear". I understand Sean Hannity is having one of his "freedom concerts" at the Orleans in a couple of months. You all ought to take your RAH RAH USA horse manure rhetoric over there where you ALL think in lockstep.
Linda, you can claim it's not racist and that it's all about "law breakers" all you want. You can claim the high moral ground all you want. Whatever helps you sleep at night; matters not to me.
I have nothing to prove to you; yet you all seem to have something to prove to the world. Interesting phenomenon, don't you think?
"Illegal aliens are criminals and parasites, one and all."
That could have been a direct quote by the local tribesmen who fed the Pilgrims. You know, the ones we celebrate every third Thursday in November.
For bajarat and the rest of you with that gestapo mindset, look up the inscription on the Statue of Liberty. Then look up "doublethink."
I thought the words were illegal immigrants, not aliens. Get info on the US Green Card Government Lottery here: http://spacyber.tripod.com/id66.html
There are nearly 12 million illegal immigrants nationwide. Almost 6 in 10 are Mexican. Eleven percent are Asian.
So let me get this straight; this was a study conducted by the the nonpartisan Washington-based Pew Hispanic Center, and "white" people are "racist" for saying the same exact thing?
PatriciaLV said:
"What YOU and your fellow xenophobes on this thread don't seem to understand is that YOU are MORE of a problem to the United States of America than any illegal could ever be.
Most of the racist comments on this thread need no reply as the rantings speak for themselves. Lucky for you that the US still holds dear to freedom of speech."
Typical comments from a bleeding heart who supports illegal alien lawbreakers. Since you can't come up with a single valid argument to support illegal immigration (because there aren't any) you resort to the only tactic you have left, and that is to call people vile names and make baseless accusations.
You really ought to look up the word "xenophobe" in the dictionary before you use it because you obviously don't know what it means. Americans welcome LEGAL immigrants who want to come here to live and work. I haven't read a single comment on this thread that said we should send LEGAL immigrants back to their home countries. If a person were truly xenophobic, they wouldn't make a distinction between legal immigrants and illegal immigrants because they would be opposed to any foreigners being in the United States. So you are extremely ignorant in calling other posters xenophobes when they are obviously not.
Also, the same reasoning can be applied when you refer to other posters as racists. Since their comments are related to illegal alien lawbreakers and not LEGAL immigrants, it only applies to one segment of the foreign population. If a poster were truly racist, their comments would apply to all foreigners regardless of whether they were in this country legally or not. By the way, illegal alien is not a race, and not all illegal aliens are of the same race.
But I can understand your frustration at not being able to carry on a logical and sensible debate on the subject of illegal immigration because you would be trying to defend a bunch of lawbreakers, which is very difficult to do. So I understand how it's much easier for you to just call everybody a bunch of baseless, vile names because it takes no debating skills or intelligence to do so.
KillerB said:
""Illegal aliens are criminals and parasites, one and all."
That could have been a direct quote by the local tribesmen who fed the Pilgrims. You know, the ones we celebrate every third Thursday in November.
For bajarat and the rest of you with that gestapo mindset, look up the inscription on the Statue of Liberty. Then look up "doublethink.""
When the first Europeans came to North America (It was the Spaniards, not the Pilgrims), there were no immigration laws in place. You can't violate a law that doesn't exist. So the first Europeans to come here were NOT illegal aliens. At worst, they were unwelcome visitors.
I see you had to throw in the baseless accusation of "gestapo mindset". That is so typical of you supporters of illegal alien lawbreakers. You can't carry on an intelligent debate so you resort to childish name-calling tactics. By the way, the words on the Statue of Liberty are not law. It is simply poetry and carries no legal weight. The ideals in that inscription are just as true today as it was many decades ago. But nowhere in that inscription on the Statue of Liberty does it say "Send us your lawbreakers". I know because I checked.
of course illegal aliens do jobs legal residents won't do, hence why they are employed, next time you stay at a hotel or go somewhere where the job is not good, look behind the scenes at the dirty jobs and check out who is working hard!!!
I for one would not want to do dirty jobs thank god there are people who do...
with regards to investment in the USA from foreigners have you ever tried to go through the visa process? It is time consuming and enough to put many small companies off from investment in the states...
One day USA will be like europe freedom of movement then what will most of you guys do?
most of the posts here are pretty much racist and short minded..
thats the last of my input as i fear some of you guys as you sound rather extremist
Now I remember why I stopped posting here several months ago ..... thanks for that reminder, "bartlebee".
I'll tell you the same thing I told "fremmasmind" .... paste the EXACT quote of mine where I indicated "support" for illegals.
Uh huh. You can't.
Not one of you ranting about "illegals" and "lawbreakers" has mentioned the simple fact that CORPORATIONS who ship US jobs overseas and who keep "headquarters" in tax havens cost us far more than a few million illegals. NOT ONE OF YOU. Yet you're all SO concerned about "lawbreakers" and how many "American jobs" the illegals take away from us.
So are you a hypocrite or a racist?
Don't bother replying; I don't really care. You need to admit one or the other to yourself. I choose not to bother with this nonsense any longer.
Senator Harry Reid
SH-528, United States Senate
Washington, DC 20510
Dear Senator Reid:
As a native to Nevada and excellent customer of the Internal Revenue Service, I am writing to ask for your assistance. I have contacted the Department of Homeland Security in an effort to determine the process for becoming an illegal alien and they referred me to you.
My primary reason for wishing to change my status from U.S. Citizen to illegal alien stems from the bill which was recently passed by the Senate and for which you voted to approve. If my understanding of this bill's provisions is accurate, as an illegal alien who has been in the United States for five years, all I need to do to become a citizen is to pay a $2,000 fine and income taxes for three of the last five years. I know a good deal when I see one and I am anxious to get the process started before everyone figures it out.
Simply put, those of us who have been here legally have had to pay taxes every year so I'm excited about the prospect of avoiding two years of taxes in return for paying a $2,000 fine. Is there any way that I can apply to be illegal retroactively? This would yield an excellent result for me and my family because we paid heavy taxes in 2007 and 2008...
Additionally, as an illegal alien I could begin using the local emergency room as my primary health care provider. Once I have stopped paying premiums for medical insurance, my accountant figures I could save almost $23,000.00 a year.
Another benefit in gaining illegal status would be that my daughter would receive preferential treatment relative to her law school applications, as well as 'in-state' tuition rates for many colleges throughout the United States for my son.
Lastly, I understand that illegal status would relieve me of the burden of renewing my driver's license and making those burdensome car insurance premiums. This is very important to me given that I still have college age children driving my car.
If you would provide me with an outline of the process to become illegal (retroactively if possible) and copies of the necessary forms, I would be most appreciative. Thank you for your assistance.
Your Loyal Constituent,
Phone me if you would like to talk about this,
XX. XXXX XXXXX
702-XXX-XXXX
PatriciaLV, Markp:
I value your comments very much and understand the frustration of this topic.
The main point is not illegal immigration, it is the first amendment, now some of you haters out there, and you all know who you are, will use illegal immigration as your fasade to hide your alter ego and motive of oppressive behaviour.
There are a few people who are bulling on this thread, lets keep it simple and to the points.
1. Racist comments are posted, and only a few people can see them for what they are, it is like eye site not everbody can see as far or see the beast for what it is. When someone says they are tired of seeing, hearing, or the use of spanish and it's use, then want only english to be spoken or used, well that smacks of racist ideals or more apply a prejudist mind set.
2. Who said only illegal immigrats where in that march, only a closed minded person without an open mind to understand the plite of others in this life. Once again, it is a right for Americans to protest peacefuly and that there may have been non-Americans as well, cool.
3. Why must the point be to divide and concure, not bring together and prosper. I as an American on a jury in harmony with my peers have the power to override any law of the land, read it and weep.
4. The march was not about allowing people to continue breaking the law, it was about making changes to the laws in place, which by the way is another American right, which is in the first amendment again.
Forthermore, The PEW thingy, read up on who is behind the quile, you will find less than 12% of the staff to be hispanic, that is like putting an opponet as your goaldie, good luck with that.
The PEW says in many articles that if and when they ask questioins of people and the people choose not to answer they consider them undocumented, need I say more of the wolf in sheeps clothing. Then they go on to qualify undocumented as illegal, nice peice of work.
Then don't forget that 60% of all illegals come into the country as legal visa holders, need I make an assertion here (by way of commercial transportation, not walking the desert)
I could go on, but I too belive that others have the right to make their points, wheather I agree with them or not, but please lets not take this personal and attack one another, just try to control your own sick love of bloging like the rest of us.
Patricialv, I've been complaining about outsourcing jobs for as long and loud as I've been complaining about allowing and hiring illegals in this country. Add to the mix I also complain about self-serve check-outs at grocery stores because A. It puts cashiers out of work, B. I become 'free labor' for the store and C. The store pockets ALL the money saved on the cost of a cashier because, unless I'm wrong, the store doesn't offer self-serve customers any kind of discount for doing the work of a paid cashier for free. People just don't stop and think of the ramifications of these self-serve checkouts - how, in time, they will replace almost ALL human interaction in the store at checkout time. I also made sure when I had my new carpet installed that I made myself very clear that I would only allow an American into my home to install it - I asked 'who does your installations' and was told the company 'sub-contracted out the work'. I stressed that if they send anyone BUT a white or black American I would refuse the order and cancel. They sent me exactly what I requested - a white and black american male came to install my carpet - what a blessed relief to have workers in my home that I could communicate with. The american people themselves are in part responsible for this mess because they refuse to take a stand at the risk of sounding racist or prejudice. As for me, personally I could care less what me perceive me to be - I'm all about keeping jobs here in this country and hiring american citizens - and if it means paying a bit more than to me it's worth it. I'm not rich and maybe this means I'll have less to spend but I just pick and choose between wants and needs and try to spend wisely - and I feel good each night knowing that I at least TRIED to preserve a job for someone else.
We already have laws to address illegal immigration and the hiring of them. We just need to enforce them. Those who hire illegal immigrants need to be fined $5000 for each undocumented worker they get caught with. For those who do not learn their lessons, for the next time they are caught with undocumented workers they would receive one year in jail for each undocumented employee they are caught with. I am sure this problem would correct itself . The money collected can be used to offset medical cost, school, and other social programs, for a short timeframe.
Comment removed by staff.
"Not one of you ranting about "illegals" and "lawbreakers" has mentioned the simple fact that CORPORATIONS who ship US jobs overseas and who keep "headquarters" in tax havens cost us far more than a few million illegals. "
It is so funny that Democrats complain about cheap labor off our shores that hurt American jobs but once that cheap labor illegally crosses our boarder then they are the greatest thing on the planet.
Why? Democrats lust after power and they will sacrifice American jobs to get it.
Illegals hurt one of the core parts of the Democratic Party.....blacks.
Young black males are competing for jobs in construction industry and other industries often did not get those jobs because of cheap illegal labor.
Nance, How can you make that statement when you don't work in the casino or construction industries. The citizens who work in these industries are well aware of whats going on. A Nation of colors represented by our citizens are losing while the illegals are bringing home paychecks. We are not the North American union yet ,and we'll never be in the one world order. So if it would behoove our Politicians to enforce the laws we have on the books and lets start thinking about the United States citizens. Protecting the United States citizens should be the number one priority.
Gunslinger you forgot that racism does not apply to a citizen from another country. The United States has its races, China has it's races, Germany has its races. Races deal with your citizens in your country. Where did their roots originate? An illegal immigrant, I think is self explanitory, "NOT HERE LEGALLY!".
Who amongst you WOULDN'T attempt to enter the promised land and stay in it forever if your own country paled in comparison to The Great United States of America?
1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77
2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscale...
3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscale...
4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify &n bsp;at: http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0...
5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0...
6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.co m/%20TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01...HTML
7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0...
8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
Verify at: http://premium.CNN.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/2...
9. $200 Billion dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSC%20RI%2...
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US
Verify at: http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0...
11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into & the U. S from the Southern border.
Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
Verify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/P...
13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances to their countries of origin.
Verify at: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One million sex crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States.
Verify at: http: // www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR AND IF YOU'RE LIKE ME HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY; IT IS $338,300,000,000.00 WHICH WOULD BE ENOUGH TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY FOR THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY.
Vamoos !!! Illegal Alien SCOFFLAWS !!! NO SCOFFLAW SCAMNESTY !!! Leave Our Jobs Alone !!!
markp said:
"of course illegal aliens do jobs legal residents won't do, hence why they are employed, next time you stay at a hotel or go somewhere where the job is not good, look behind the scenes at the dirty jobs and check out who is working hard!!!"
I for one would not want to do dirty jobs thank god there are people who do...
One day USA will be like europe freedom of movement then what will most of you guys do?
most of the posts here are pretty much racist and short minded..
thats the last of my input as i fear some of you guys as you sound rather extremist"
I see you're repeating the same regurgitated speaking points right out of the La Raza handbook. It's like a mantra with you illegal alien supporters. "They do the jobs Americans won't do!". And yet, in parts of this country which haven't yet been overwhelmed by the illegal alien invasion, who is doing these "jobs that Americans won't do"? Americans and legal immigrants, that's who! I also thank God that Americans and legal immigrants are willing to do these "dirty jobs".
The reason "freedom of movement" would tend to work better in Europe is because most of the countries in Europe are very similar in standards of living, education of their people, culture, etc. These similarities don't exist between the United States and Mexico, which is why it wouldn't work well here. Besides, "freedom of movement" is a two-way street. Do you honestly believe that the Mexican government would allow millions of Americans to move to Mexico to compete with Mexicans for jobs? It would never happen.
And then you resort to the "racist" accusation which simply means that you can't carry on an intelligent debate on the subject of illegal immigration, so you resort to childish name calling. But I can understand your frustration because you're trying to convince us to support lawbreaking which most of us aren't willing to do. We don't support American lawbreakers and we don't support foreign lawbreakers. It's you extremists who illogically support lawbreaking.
Poor little PatriciaLV, you can dish it out but you can't seem to take it. How very immature of you. But I must admit, you are very good at name calling. I bet you were the playground name calling champion in your neighborhood when you were a child. I send you my belated congratulations! Unfortunately for you, you are now posting comments in an adult forum where baseless accusations and name calling aren't rewarded with blue ribbons that you can proudly take home to your mommy. In forums like this, baseless name calling reflects on your intelligence and your ability to carry on a debate in a mature manner. Apparently you're not able to do this, so you resort to name calling. How unfortunate.
GunslingerA10,
If you are making the accusation that those who are opposed to illegal immigration are racists (which is a ridiculous assumption), I can just as easily make the accusation that those who are in support of illegal immigration are racists since 80% of all illegal aliens are Hispanic.
JustSaying:
"Who amongst you WOULDN'T attempt to enter the promised land and stay in it forever if your own country paled in comparison to The Great United States of America?"
Every lawbreaker tries to rationalize their lawbreaking activities. But lawbreaking is still lawbreaking, no matter how the lawbreakers try to rationalize violating the law. Illegal aliens are lawbreakers, pure and simple. I really don't care why they, or any other lawbreaker, chose to violate the law.
I'm just wondering, what exactly is the incentive for a casino to employ an illegal immigrant. Every housekeeper I know employed by Harrah's, for example, makes more than $11 an hour plus benefits and tips. Since the pay is the same regardless, I would think Harrah's likes to employ the ones who are the most qualified, not the one's they can pay the least.
Illegal immigration is a problem for many countries, When in Switzerland they had anti immigration ads in the rail stations. Italy has a problem with illegal immigration from Africa and they worry about their national identity being destroyed by the European union. The US needs to stop illegal immigration now to save our country before we are over taken by the socialists and become an also ran country like France.
postk49...I think that train has already left the station.
There are already predicting with just the birth rate of hispanics already in the USA that they will the majority ethnic group in k-12 in about 25 years.
My guess is that in some respects, like economic policy, that we will be more socialist.
It is good guess that in social policy we might be more moderate.
Who knows....we will become mainly a hispanic country.
Most likely the US will be broken into 3 to 10 little countries before 100 years is up and that will happen when we are completely broke with something like a $100 trillion national debt.
Obama is going to add $21 trillion to the debt.
We will probably get to the meltdown point sooner rather than later.
Bottom line, illegal's are just that; Illegal. Unfortunately our politicians don't want them out, Republican or Democrat. The amount of cash put into the system that illegal immigrants contribute exceeds an amount that our elected officials don't want to let go of. Remember it is about the money, not law. We wonder why our elected officials bailed out everyone except us, the money and pure greed and corruption. Become an elected official and just sit back and wait, caching, caching, caching.
Become a member of www.numbersusa.com and let your voice be heard.
If the casinos are going to hire illegals, then we should find out which casinos are hiring illegals and start a major "BOYCOTT" of said casino. Start a major information, super highway, letting people know far and wide which casinos are employing illegals and let the tourists decide where to spend their hard-earned dollars.
Most people will avoid a casino that hires illegals and will choose one that hires only legal citizens. There are so many casinos to choose from there should not be a problem.
The only way to stop illegals is to stop HIRING them!
Children should produce a birth certificate to start school, parents should show that they are legal to enroll students.
Welfare,food stamps and all government programs should be reserved for legal citizens only!
All jobs, big and small should be given only to legal citizens. Check papers! ONLY hire legal citizens even if you have to pay a little bit more.
Must be Bilingual.
Not to mention, the government mandates employer's preferential treatment to Mexicans, they call it diversity goals that employers must meet. Hogwash, throw them out and hire legal citizens.
But now that we have Obama in office, nothing but diversity coming down our way, more freebies given to the lazy and illegal's. Stop and read the American Recovery Act, 28 billion to infrastructure 750 billion given to welfare and other programs that these people can use so they don't have to work or to subsidies their cheap wages, free medical, free educations and free housing.
Bottom line, we as Americans are being taken down the highway of hell.
Jim, paste the EXACT QUOTE where I indicate "support" for illegals. You too, bartlebee.
And then, bartlebee, you can post the EXACT QUOTE where I called you ANY name.
And then you can respond to my point about corporations.
Or will you once again avoid answering?
fremmasmind re:
"...racism does not apply to a citizen from another country."
Where on Earth did you get that?
I don't know why anyone is bothering to hassle with Patricia. I did once, then realized, that (s)he, is baiting people. Maybe this person is (1)a shill for the Sun (2)likes having the attention (3)wants an argument (4)use to no one listening to them (5) is a control freak. Could be 1,2,3,4,5 or all of the above and then some. All I know is this person tries to pull the thread off topic, and then attacks people's posts by name calling ect. Then at the end of the post sets the bait.
"So are you a hypocrite or a racist? Don't bother replying; I don't really care. You need to admit one or the other to yourself. I choose not to bother with this nonsense any longer."
"And then you can respond to my point about corporations.Or will you once again avoid answering?"
"Linda, you can claim it's not racist and that it's all about "law breakers" all you want. You can claim the high moral ground all you want. Whatever helps you sleep at night; matters not to me.
"I have nothing to prove to you; yet you all seem to have something to prove to the world. Interesting phenomenon, don't you think?"
"Most of the racist comments on this thread need no reply as the rantings speak for themselves. Lucky for you that the US still holds dear to freedom of speech."
"As an aside ..... if any of you really want to be taken seriously, refrain from posting links such as "NUMBERSUSA"."
Support the revised (SAVE) Act as it targets employers with stiff penalties for hiring illegal aliens, secures the northern and southern border by adding 8,000 new border patrol agents and increases interior enforcement by allowing for additional federal district court judges and provides more resources for law enforcement officers. In this package E-Verify would be mandatory, in-perpetuity driving illegal labor from the workplace. Rep. Heath Schuler's e-verification program, would require federal agencies, contractors and employers to verify the eligibility of --ALL EMPLOYEES--within one to four years, depending on the size of the company. Using this procedure, identity fraud fashioned through fake social security numbers and bogus ID's would be reduced significantly.
This is not about discrimination because E-verify is activated after someone has been hired," Shuler said. "This helps to ensure that local officials can identify who they arrest. Interior enforcement is crucial." It's essential that Americans back him and his sponsors when the act is introduced in the next few weeks. This is namely after Sen. Harry Reid(D-NV) and speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) silently neutralized E-Verify, plus 48 other members of the Senate. We cannot trust these pro-illegal immigrant--PARIAH--cheap labor--BUSINESS politicians. With over 12 million Americans out of work and large numbers of new veterans entering the workplace, nor can our own kids get Summer jobs. We just cannot accept any legalization of 13 to 20 million foreign nationals and the huge costs sustaining them. Offer your support to Rep.Shuler (D-NC) on his gov website. Phone: 828-252-1651 Learn more at NUMBERSUSA
Enforce the 1986 Simpson/Mazzoli bill, the Immigration Reform & Control Act as enacted.
Subject to the news of immigration reform and the continuous violence of foreign nationals, and attacks on Americans by these people. To me this is a harbinger of things to come. Without any fear of contradiction that if our mostly corrupt politicians secretly pass a path to citizenship, we are going to see short outbursts of violence, that will culminate in an all out war. Because by far the largest illegal immigration has swept here from the South side of the border, they will be the ugly beneficiaries of the full impact. This nation has become a crutch for all the poor, uneducated who have broken our laws. Most have been welcomed by the business world, who are eager for large profits and shun jobs for US workers.
On our streets--specially in the sanctuary cities, will run with blood. American workers have already been sacrificed by our politicians, by cutting off E-Verify to stop illegal aliens stealing jobs in the workplace. Sen. Harry Reid and majority House Speaker Pelosi must be congratulated, for their stealth in slitting the throats of millions of American Workers and favoring the criminal enterprises of pariah businesses that search-out cheap labor. The administration might be contemplating putting the National Guard on the border. But in the near future those same troops, may be needed on our own streets to safeguard both US citizens and immigrants. Just as in Europe the benefits of illegal labor has run its course, and the terrible corruption has benefited the few and not the indigenous people are angry and frustrated. Without any restrictions thousands of people have accumulated in England and insisted on their laws and regulations. To see the English people downtrodden and their livelihoods stolen will have repercussions very soon. The usual conservative and social mindset of the British people, for now they populating the once detested British National Party. My relatives who live over the Atlantic ocean have joined the membership. The British/English people are being backed into a corner, as they were during the early days of the Second World War. But when you think your values and generations of pomp and circumstance is threatened, violence will be the ultimate manifestation. The flare ups will start small but if you do not read the rural British Press on-line, you will never be served the daily additions of growing violence in this once peaceful society.
PatriciaLV:
You earlier said "Now I remember why I stopped posting here several months ago" and "Don't bother replying; I don't really care. You need to admit one or the other to yourself. I choose not to bother with this nonsense any longer".
Can't stick to your own word can you..that lasted long!
Phyremedic brings it home. Rants about god on money! I am more concerned about scum like phyremedic than any "alien" from anywhere.
These Right wing bible bangers always manage to turn every discussion into a thread about their religion.
Before europeans invaded America there was a different religion. Of course we should forget that and just force christianity on everyone.
Hispanics voted democrat 75% in last election. Id rather learn spanish than risk a Palin presidency. VIVA LA RAZA!
This and guns are the only issue I'm right wing on... How can we keep letting more and more people come here I'm sorry they all have to go...wherever they are from... family no family to bad so sad about your luck... your were born in mexico stay there and make it better... why not force your beloved Mexican goverment into building a place that can sustain its population.....amercians will do the jobs that you leave when we send you back..... my family fought and died so i could live in this country no so you can come here and take advatage of their sacrafice you wanna come here get in line start a revolution in mexico to make better living standards... really i hate to sound so bitter but enough is enough... i dont care if you red yellow green or black if you are illegal you got to go now.... Ill do my own yard....
Hmm, jobs Americans won't do? Let's see, there is an easy way to correct that. No Welfare assistance unless you do those jobs (ie. field workers, manual labor, etc.). If you choose not too and you are able bodied, than you are on your own. Even if you chose to have 7 kids. Life is not free and I am tired of working my rear off to take care of my family to have a president take as much as he wants to support those who won't work. So if you want to get illegals (hispanic, asian, european) to stop coming that's all you have to do. Start making Americans who can work but won't, start taking those jobs. Then, the illegals will stop coming. Makes some sense to me, maybe it makes sense to others out there as well!
lv1: Anything to actually to contribute? Or are you just "baiting"? LOL! It worked; here I am :) For the record, I owe you nothing vis a vis an explanation. Have a nice day.
Linda: So if I ask a legitimate question it's "baiting"? Any chance you might be able to respond to anything you claim is "baiting" or would that be beneath you?
BTW, what exactly did I post that was "off-topic" of this thread?
One more thing ... to Linda and bartlebee and now lv1: Why is it OK for you all to post the most childish, schoolyard-type nonsense that has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of thread? It's nothing more than personal attacks. Yet Linda & bartlebee accuse me of "name-calling".
Once again, I'm pretty sure the irony escapes you.
Good one PLV!
rocco
What in my post makes you think I am in favor of illegal immigration, I am not, but you seem to equate me pointing out the first amendment as pro illegal immigration, perhaps your comprehention is not clear, or my point was blured by your zealous desire to make false accustions in suport of your short attention span.
As a 26+ year military veteran I salute your family members who paid the ultimate for our freedoms.
More to the point why would you say "amercians will do the jobs that you leave when we send you back" I am an American and qualify just as your family by serving this contry, as for you I am not so sure you where even a boy/girl scout.
I am not being personal, I don't know you, nor do I think I have ever met you. What I can say is that for you to say something like you said, well, it sounds abit like anger or hatred in your writing. I have long sice stop whopping people on their accord, but I can make an exception in your case.
Try to read what I have writen, think about it, then read it again, get a warm cup of.....and then lets debate my points on the First Amendment, if you can put your personal feelings aside.
bartlebee
While I'm at it let me take care of you to.
I am not making any accusations, I am pointing out some of the posts, just as I have pointed it out in the above comment to rocco.
Can we all just get along and debate without trying to bite and scrach.
PLV when we refer to a person from another country, would they be considered a national citizen, A citizen from another country? A country that has races based upon where the citizens' heritage comes from? Race, color, creed? Like I have said before if a citizen from another country is in our country illegally he's just another illegal alien. No race except what he is refered as by his countrymen.
I understand what you're saying, fremmasmind, but what you originally said couldn't be more wrong. Racism is racism; doesn't matter what the country of origin might be or where the person might be standing at any particular point in time.
Perhaps "racist" is being used (by me and possibly others) incorrectly in this context. But it does seem that we as a society have somewhat broadened the scope and thus the definition.
Could a foreigner bring racism charges against an American Citizen? Even though he is not a citizen of our country and has no race in our society. He is a citizen of another country and the races in the U.S. can't discriminate against a citizens race of another country.
But it has nothing to do with whether or not one can bring "charges". That "foreigner" is of a race no matter where s/he is standing! It does not change based on border or geography!
Please go to http://www.m-w.com & enter "racism".
Nick,
"Phyremedic brings it home. Rants about god on money! I am more concerned about scum like phyremedic than any "alien" from anywhere."
In the event that you only read without digesting what is being said, that was subtle sarcasm.
By the way, "In God we trust" is not about money, anymore than it is about religion, but if you truly have a problem with that being printed on this nations monies, feel free to use monies that do not make that reference.
So what exactly is it that makes me a "scumbag?" Did I somehow hurt hurt your feeling by not supporting "Illegal Immigration?
Phyremedic: Got the sarcasm. You are another religous right victim. It all comes down to everyone living the way you want.
I say it again. If mass immigration brings more votes against the Sarah Palin crowd, I will gladly give amnesty to millions and learn spanish.
Nick you are too ignorant for intelligible converse.
I am not "right wing" nor am I religious you fool. But if calling people names makes you sleep better at night, more power to you.
Just like so many of the respondents on this thread, you search high and low until you find something you can twist in order to justify picking a fight.
Better to be thought a fool, you sir opened your mouth and removed all doubt.
Good day to you.
Nick;
I just read through your previous post' to get some insight into your ideology.
I think I already hit the nail on the head, you have done nothing but put people down, belittle, berate, and just plain ole' bully the focus of articles and the bloggers.
You, Sir are the saddest of all persons and blame the world for the shame you see staring back at you from the mirror.
Grow up.
Psychomedic:
"and this will shock most of you but I think we would again be allowed to utter those hateful words in public once again, you know the ones- In God We Trust."
Sounds like a right wing christian zealot to me.
You want your religion forced on the rest of us.
If mass Amnesty dilutes the Joe the Plumber Sarah Palin Rush Limbau bigots, all I can say is
SI SE PUEDE!
Nick if you like illegals so much why don't you move to their country.In fact how about everyone who wants the illegals in our country please leave our country with the illegals so you all can be happy together. It would give us U.S. citizens a chance to try and fix the problems our country is presently facing. It'd probably give our unemployed a chance to get jobs and start getting their lives back together.
Why dont you trailer trash Sarah Palin bigots leave? I am quite happy here.
America, love it or LEAVE it. Now beat it, will ya?
And I never said I like ilegals so much. I said if it changes voting demographics, it's worth it.
I'd rather live next to immigrants from anywhere instead of red state trash.
One has to love the ignorance of people. C'mon 2012, Obama being voted out along with Pelosi, Reid and the rest of the group that have no clue about Americans..
Changing the voting demographics is absurd and to allow these illegal's to gain free amnesty is just as crazy but I do understand that the Democrats will allow this to be pushed through and amnesty will occur under this term.
America under this president is forever changed and it will take years upon years to undo what is going to occur over the next 4 years. People won't have to work, they'll suck off the system and for those of us to do work, our taxed are going up and they'll take what we've worked for and make every attempt to redistribute my money to the slow, dumb, and lazy recipients who support Democrats.
What happened to "Comments should... contain no abusive language" ?
Some comments here sound like those of the Germans during the Holocaust.