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Richard Brian / Special to the Sun
Gov. Jim Gibbons, right, and Dan Boyle, owner of ProShop Motorsports and Marine, discuss the impact of higher taxes on small businesses during a press conference at Boyle’s Henderson showroom on Friday.
By Kyle B. Hansen (contact) 
Friday, May 1, 2009 | 2:44 p.m.
Sun Archives
- To be clear, Gibbons is against tax increase (5-1-2009)
- Gibbons to propose more salary cuts, says he’ll veto tax hikes (4-30-09)
- Lawmakers eye county dough (4-30-2009)
- Gibbons to propose more salary cuts, says he'll veto tax hikes (4-30-2009)
- County's taxable sales tumble 19.6 percent in February (4-30-2009)
Sun Coverage
Beyond the Sun
Gov. Jim Gibbons brought his anti-tax campaign to Clark County today with a visit to a Henderson boating and recreation equipment store, where he said an increase in taxes would be detrimental to the success of small businesses.
“Taxes do one thing: they suppress an economy,” Gibbons said, echoing the sentiment he expressed during a news conference Thursday in Carson City. “When we increase business taxes as is being suggested by the Legislature, we’re taking money away from this business and every employee here.”
Speaking from inside ProShop Motorsports and Marine on Lake Mead Parkway, the governor said the store is just one of many small businesses across the state that would suffer under an increase in taxes.
“My goal is to balance this state budget without harming small businesses around the state of Nevada,” he said.
In agreement with Gibbons, shop owner Dan Boyle said any increase in taxes would take a deeper cut into his slimming profits.
“The amount of money coming out of my store and going to the state in sales taxes is far more than what we earn in a net profit for the store,” he said. “The state is a great silent partner -- they’re taking a lot and they want to take more. At some point you’ve got to say that’s not going to work.”
Boyle said sales at the store are down 30 to 40 percent since last summer and increased sales taxes would drive away even more customers.
“Our plea with the governor is, let’s hold off on sales taxes, let’s balance the budget, cut expenses, do whatever, but to raise prices in a downward economy is not going to work, it's not going to help and it will hurt a lot of small businesses,” Boyle said.
The governor’s visit to Henderson was a follow-up to his address in Carson City in which he attacked members of the Legislature for adding back some of his proposed budget cuts — about $72 million so far, out of a $6.1 billion budget.
“When you start adding back expenditures like the Legislature is doing, they’re digging that hole deeper,” Gibbons said today. “They’re making it harder for us to bridge and balance the budget. I’m telling them stop digging.”
Gibbons repeatedly used Boyle’s business as an example of how Nevada’s residents could suffer under the tax increases being discussed by the Legislature.
Boyle said although he hasn’t been forced to lay off any of his staff, he didn’t hire any seasonal workers this year and he has cut some full-time employees down to part-time.
Boyle said he thinks that the state can find a way to balance the budget without raising taxes.
“I think the government takes plenty of money, and I can attest to that because I write the check every month,” Boyle said. “How they spend it is up to the politicians.
“The problem is that they think that when sales go down, they can just raise the tax rate and get more money out of the economy. When nobody’s buying anything it doesn’t matter. We need to keep people employed and get people back to feeling like there’s some good times ahead.”
Gibbons said that instead of raising taxes, the state could use its green energy sources to help rebuild the economy.
“We’re going to build our way out of it by going to our renewable green energy,“ he said.
“My goal, my vision, is to turn Nevada into a renewable energy exporting state. Much as some states like Alaska, Texas, Louisiana are exporting fossil fuel, I want green, renewable energy to be Nevada’s export.”
"Gibbons repeatedly used Boyle's business as an example of how Nevada's residents could suffer under the tax increases being discussed by the Legislature."
Dan Boyle,
Do you have children? Are they attending public schools in Clark County? With your "I got mine" "Don't Tax me" mentality you are passing the buck to teachers and state workers who are now scheduled to take a 16% pay cut. Even though your profits are down, you are living a very comfortable life style from the profits of your business. I'm sure most teachers are not in the income bracket to buy your toys....I know I am not. If a 16% pay cut comes through for teachers and state workers, many of them will lose their houses. Who do you expect to buy your toys when the entire economy of this city is going down???? Thanks for your short-sightedness!
there are X dollars. he can't change that FACT. he can lower salaries so that more people can keep their jobs, or he can lay off many, many more people. if you can't afford the pay cut (which is not 16%, probably closer to 6% which is less than or equal to state income tax in surrounding states), you are living beyond your means.
you don't pay state income tax whereas California has 10% income tax and is imposing furloughs. Other states around us have 6% income tax and are also furloughing. GET A REALITY CHECK.
"there are X dollars. he can't change that FACT."
There is much, much more money on the table that Gibbons is ignoring so that he can keep repeating his DOGMA.
Mining:
"The industry reaped $5 billion from the sale of precious metals in 2006, with more than 90 percent of it coming from gold, silver and copper. It paid $62 million in net proceeds of mineral taxes that year, of which state government's share was $30 million. "
62 million? That's a 1.2% tax. That's absurd. The Nevada Constitution caps the NPOM tax at 5%. They are paying less than a quarter of that due to outlandish deductions that are set forth in state statutes. The mining company lobbyists have thrown so much money at the legislature that they can deduct more than 90% of the net worth of their proceeds.
And with the mining companies profiting from the prices of minerals increasing, that's money being ripped out of the ground for which Nevada citizens are getting little benefit. These mining companies are nowhere near bankruptcy, they are all turning a huge profit.
Don't tell me there's no more money available. That's total BS.
"Over a seven year period, Nevada mines produced more than $25 billion worth of gold, but paid a mere $125 million to the state, an effective tax rate of .5-percent."
Gibbons is putting the interests of Big Mining over the interests of the state.
Taxation is theft; those mandating taxation are thieves, thieves are criminals.
A free society is one not shackled by criminals imposing mandates of theft.
Harley, taxation is a consequence of living in America. Taxation is what you trade for the safety provided by the police, the FDA, and your local Univeristy hospital offering psychiatric care.
Why don't you avail yourself of your freedom to move to one of the many nations that do not tax residents.
LVsun,
Don't be silly, the average teacher in this state makes between $48,000 and $50,000 depending on who you're asking. That is more than enough to by a small boat or jet ski.
Furthermore, think about what you're saying. You want him to sacrifice so state workers can make more but you don't want state workers to sacrifice so other people (Ie the people state workers allegedly serve) to make more.
Additionally, the state's budget is over $8 billion for the year (with about $3 billion from the General Fund) do you honestly think we're spending that money on the most productive programs?
Thebs,
Taxation is the price we pay for being uncivilized:
http://www.writeonnevada.com/2009/04/tax...
"For the more we citizens move in the spirit of non-violent voluntary cooperation, the less government we actually need."
Were the women of Henderson properly alerted to lock their doors and stay out of parking garages?
The governor said we all have to share this burden of the economic downturn... Unless we're making lots of money in gold mining or big-box discount stores.
Then we just take the money and run, laughing all the way.
NO kidding, $50,000 for a TEACHER? THAT IS SO RIDICULOUSLY OVERPAID. They should get a 55% pay cut.
"No wonder our taxes are so high in Nevada, the teachers are all making $50,000 each."
Shows this man has no concept of what "average" means.
"NO kidding, $50,000 for a TEACHER?"
WHAT? FOR A COLLEGE-EDUCATED TEACHER? THE HORROR!
For years I have wondered why our state consistently ranks near the bottom of achievement scores. For years I have read the dogma from right-wing think tanks that a good teacher = achievement. And now those same right-wing think tanks "thinks" paying teachers less will attract the good teachers?
Get ahold of yourself. There's a reason why you're termed the 'lunatic fringe.'
LasVegas2009,
I have been reading through some of your prior comments....you seem to hate all community service people. It's obvious you work in some sort of "sales" field, since you rip the contents of a credit application of a firefighter:
Posted on: No concessions yet from firefighters
I have seen the credit applications of firefighters and I can tell for sure they are the highest incomes I have every seen. And $100,000 psssss try $225,000! Of course he was a chief of the fire house. They make a whole lot of money! 4/12/09 at 6:48 p.m
You also have little respect for teachers:
Posted on: Lawmakers aim to blunt state worker pay cuts
Luna: Hard work is not defined as setting around all day baby setting someones kids. Shut the schools down and go to internet based classrooms. We wont have to fund these huge daycare facilities and the glorified baby setters. We wont have to bus them or feed them. Just shut the whole thing down and let them learn on youtube. They now have youtube EDU for everyone. Just think of all the money we could save not funding the retirement accounts of these layabouts. All these teachers will have to go out and get real jobs for a change.
4/11/09 at 1:37 p.m
I gather from your comments about public servants such as teachers and firefighters, you lack the education many of us would like to provide to the community to make it a better place. Pull yourself away from your Youtube education and get out and do some community service. See how "easy" these layabouts have it. See how much time and energy you have to use the toys Mr. Dan Boyle is peddeling when you put in a real day of work serving the public.
oh, and by the way....it's "sitting" not setting....baby sitter, not baby setter....find that on YouTube!
What is the governor doing at a boat shop in Henderson when Republicans and Democrats in the legislature are trying to fix this problem in Carson City? Did we elect this governor to be absent from the negotiating table when this state is in crisis?
And when did people in Nevada start cheering for each other to make less and less money? This race to the bottom is odd at the least. In tough economic times, American history teaches that people have relied on government services and employees to make it through. The same is true today. Cutting government is not the answer. Reforming the tax structure is.
Well said CJJames!
Did our governor travel down to the Henderson boat shop on our taxpayer dime????
LasVegas2009,
Your YouTube education is shining through! It's "you're greedy" not "your greedy". Yes, we teach that in the second grade here at CCSD! I pray that you do not have children of your own and would want them to have your limited, short-sighted vision of life. You are the perfect example of why we need to fight for a better education for all people in the state of Nevada! Please read Ralston's commentary about simpletons in Nevada. It's calling your name!
We should all be fighting to abolish publicly funded education to do what's best for our children of Nevada.
Wake-up America.
Don't be conned by America's institutionalized public servants we're forced to employ as public school teachers.
Public education is a failure and will ultimately be reflected upon as the reason America wasn't capable of competing intellectually in the world and will eventually become servant to its intellectual superiors.
"We cannot solve today's problems with the same level of thinking that created them". A. Einstein
Harley, while I don't agree with you, I would like to quote a favorite phrase of my late, mostly conservative mother: you get what you pay for. Not happy with public education? Check out the pittance we pay school teachers. We should be grateful to the vast majority of them for daring to sacrifice any form of financial success for the sake of teaching.
Several good examples of why we have an electorial college.
I'm just glad that they are cutting salaries so that they lay fewer people off. I don't mind 6% at all if my co-workers all get to keep their jobs!!
Michael Green wrote:
"Harley, while I don't agree with you, I would like to quote a favorite phrase of my late, mostly conservative mother: you get what you pay for. Not happy with public education? Check out the pittance we pay school teachers. We should be grateful to the vast majority of them for daring to sacrifice any form of financial success for the sake of teaching."
Mr. Green ask your mother how much she has paid towards public education in her life time, then ask her what she received for her money.
The governor probably should have gone to a business that didn't sell $50,000 luxury toys to sell his proposal to the public. A small increase in taxes is not going to kill the man's business. The fact that he is in the business of selling expensive toys is what will cause the demise of his business.
People who are going to spend $50,000 on a boat in this economy are not going to flinch about spending an extra $500 if the sales tax increased by 1%. If you think $500 is going to stop someone from buying a luxury item, you obviously don't make enough money to buy it in the first place.
There are enough businesses and industries in Nevada that don't pay enough or any in taxes and it is time their free ride ends. Does anyone actually believe the mining companies or Wal-Mart will leave Nevada if they are taxed?
The tax structure in Nevada is broken, the problem is not entirely to blame on spending, but there are problems there. The biggest problem is that the state is gambling on tourists to fund the budget. Most smart investors diversify their portfolios to reduce the amount of risk. The State of Nevada needs to diversify its tax structure. Mining and "big box" retailers need to start paying their share and the casinos should actually take a reduction in their taxes. Putting all of your eggs in one basket, the casinos, is a recipe for disaster.
Can I please see Mr. Boyle's tax returns from 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007 please? I am guessing he did quite well during those "up" years. Now, did I go bitching when I wasn't making the fat stacks during the "up" time? Um, nope, just did my job and was happy. Now, Mr. Boyle doesn't want to pay his fair share because he didn't save for a rainy day. Yep, the system is screwed up!
"Taxes do one thing: they suppress an economy," Gibbons said,
--------------
Of course, no one likes taxes or wasteful spending, but what comes out of our governor's mouth is just bizarre. Is he really that ignorant about the costs of modern infrastructure? During his photo op at the boat shop did anyone dare ask him a few obvious questions such as: What pays for The National Weather Service to alert boaters if it's safe to go boating? What pays for the roads to get the boat to the water? What pays for the Coast Guard that rescues people and/or locally, the National Park Service, etc. etc.
Brooks,
Have you ever thought that the private sector does this and can do this? If the private sector good do the same job for less money wouldn't you rather have the same service and more of your tax dollars back in your wallet?
We've seen private hospitals work, private EMTs, private lifeguards, private parks (which can and often do a better job than the national park service of taking care of the land) and private weather services
Ksand,
Teacher pay ranges from about 36k to 70k in Nevada. Pay is based on number of years of service and the number of degrees earned. The average teacher pay comes to about $50,000 (excluding benefits).
The problem is not how much they earn, but how they earn it. The teacher pay does not reflect the quality of the teacher's ability. Teacher pay needs to be tied to the teacher quality, allow great teachers to earn $100,000, I don't care so long as we have a real merit system.
Now, as you pointed out, Nevada's achievement ranks near the bottom while Nevada's teacher pay ranks near the top. What does that tell you?
I see the usual anti-education crowd has entered the building to sling the usual lines of b.s. meant only to rile people up and upset them. Nance, er nevadaapple, is a shameless flamer. Same for LasVegas2009; NOBODY is THAT stupid, are they??? And Dear, sweet Harley; Isn't he cute? There there. Be a good boy and go outside and play in the street. And lastly, but certainly not leastly, OUR SCHOLARLY PATRICK! He is SO SMART with his BOOK SENSE and his STATISTICS!
We should all pitch in and buy him and OUNCE OF COMMON SENSE.
Teacher Bashing is SUCH A FUN SPORT, eh guys???
Gmag,
Drop the dogma, stand back up on two feet like a rational human being and come up with some real counterpoints.
So this tax would be a huge burden on the high-end toy business. Alrighty then. 2010 is just around the corner so I hope Gibbons has started packing...like yesterday!
@gmag39. Amen. I've never seen such flaming ignorance as I have from Nance et al.
gmag, in my opinion, you must be a really insecure public employee because you have no rational support and instead name call others.
Ok...
You have a severe teacher shortage. You hire people from hither & yon, from sea to shining sea.
They move here. They sign contracts. They go to work. They buy homes, they pay taxes, they shop your stores.
Now, you've figured out that your revenue "projections" do not match your budget.
You have a shortfall. So, now what do you do?
You go to those same teachers, and say hey, we
aren't making as much money as we thought we would, so now we'd like to pay YOU less than we've contracted with you for.
I'm sorry folks, but teachers will NOT, repeat NOT be your state's freaking CASH COW. If you need more money to pay your bills, you better be figuring out how to come up with the cash.
If I buy a car, for example, and sign a contract with the bank on a loan, I can't call them up and say "hey, I'm not making as much money as I thought I would, revenue is down, so I'm going to pay YOU less money than I agreed to pay when I signed those loan documents."
It's ludicrous to ask for your money back from teachers, AND THEN HAVE THE NERVE to tell them "by the way, you will also have to do with LESS RESOURCES from the school district than you were led to believe. Sorry, no money for copy paper, pencils, paper towels, etc. etc., so you'll have to supplement the school district/county/state by chipping in A FURTHER PORTION OF YOUR SALARY for CLASSROOM SUPPLIES."
And, of course, class sizes will go up, school resources like language-learner aides will go DOWN. WAY DOWN. WE ARE CUTTING THIS SUCKER TO THE BONE."
AND FINALLY, all of you "bright folks", you know who you are, write in here to the paper and bitch and moan about what a terrible job teachers do, and how selfish they are NOT to EMBRACE a PAY CUT.
Are you serious?
I do not where you people get your kooky ideas from, but this one is a real doozy.
You misunderstand what a "cash cow" is. It is some unit that makes money. Teachers are in no way a "cash cow" that bring money to the state.
You also must not understand that the pay cuts enable more money to go around to prevent laying more teachers off. Your rant makes me hope that my children are never in your classroom.
JIM GIBBONS WILL ALWAYS HAVE MY VOTE!
You misunderstand what a contract is, and responsibility to honor it.
You misunderstand the Governor's intention to raid teacher's salaries as a GOOD thing.
You misunderstand my profession, as I am NOT a teacher.
You misunderstand that it's appropriate to GUILT TEACHERS into taking pay cuts.
You misunderstand about available tax revenue in Nevada.
You misunderstand that it is the responsibility of the teachers of Nevada to balance your state's budget. That's just plain wrong.
okay, so consider that teachers should be exempt from the budget cuts. the police, firemen, foster care employees, social workers, janitors, professors, and so on should then all take bigger cuts so that teachers don't have to. the state should cut support of orphans, mentally ill, disabled, and other programs so that the money can be given to teachers. I disagree.
It doesn't matter who is right or wrong, there will be cuts. You can scream until you are blue in the face, but it won't change the situation.
TAXES. say it with me;
WE NEED NEW SOURCES OF TAX REVENUE!
That's ok, nance. I mean "nevada apple slices",(that's too cute!) I'm ok with the fact that there are some people who think it is ok to renege on their obligations, and make excuses for their irresponsible behavior. As a society, we have the "good apples" and the "bad apples", this one is just rotten to the core.
I am behind Gibbons 100%. No more Taxes! During these times everyone has to cut back and that includes the teachers, city and state workers. I am so tired of hearing about that we need to raise taxes to help our children. I have a great idea; those who have children which attend public school should have to pay a tax to support their children's education. Well let's call it tuition for education which will help offset what the state budgets per child for education. Meaning the more children you have the more you will pay.
Gmag,
If you raise taxes that means you take money from somewhere else. That is someone elses income, someone elses, food, clothing, car payment etc.
The only way cutting state worker salaries hurts the economy is if the money is used to maintain salaries or it vanishes into thin air.
This is what you assume and it is utterly impossible. The money does not disapear, it is taken from someone else.
Your best case scenario is that increased taxes people leads to no decline in the economy...and that is assuming that the government spends the money 1) as efficiently as everyone else and 2) there are no transaction costs associated with the tax (that is the money flows with no cost from the taxpayer to the teacher) neither of these assumptions are reasonable.
Raising taxes to maintain state worker salaries is, there is no real doubt about this, a net loss for Nevada's economy.
patrick; Frankly, I do not care what you think.
Your ideology and mine are different.
Where I come from you meet your obligations, Patrick.
You don't try to weasel your way out of paying, sorry.
And, I could care less that paying employees what you've contracted to pay them may hurt the state of Nevada. That would just mean some people didn't do their jobs correctly. Not my personal problem, sir.
Jim Gibbons is a baboon brachiating through the branches of the legislature trying to pass his 'no new taxes' idea. He has selected state workers and teachers as his victims for a 16% cut...but he has not included all state entitites that receive state funding: judges, all elected POLITICIANS, city and county workers, police and firefighters. If it is supposed to be fair to cut the wages of state employees and teachers then let's include all who receive any form of state funding and cut them all 16%... The cuts should be all inclusive for everyone who directly or indirectly receives state monies for their job...IT'S TIME TO BE FAIR...REAL FAIR ABOUT THIS !
Jim Gibbons is a typical member of the PARTY OF 'NO'... NO TAXES, NO VISION, NO HOPE, NO PLAN,AND WORST OF ALL NO FUTURE!
Me thinks Nevada is full of more moronic, nonthinking, nonvisionary idiots than I previously realized. Oh, you fools who think that reducing education wills save you money...how wrong you are! What you are asking for is a third world status for our state and our country (if thinking like so many of you spreads across America).
Remember the CCSD gave parents a voice in choosing what programs to cut out of the budget. And what did they select to as 'a keeper'?...sports of course! What vision and thinking must have gone into that...it amazes me that so many parents really believe that their little darlings will be the 'future superstar' and bring in tons of money to help them in their old age. Dream on fools....
Will it be athletics or acadmic knowldege that will save America?
Go ahead and cut salaries of teachers back to what it was 20 years ago and see what kind of individuals remain? It is no wonder that top notch college students choose not to become or stay in education...the stupidity level of America continues to amaze me.
Many countries in the world are raising and educating their children to destroy us while we Americans prefer to train our children to be socially amiable, nonthinking baboons that can engage in sports.....
Within the next 20 years the U.S. is likely to become a thirdworld country in terms of its ability to field scientists, engineers, mathematicians, and medical personnel prepared enough to continue to make us a world leader in any of these endeavors. God Help America!
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/dec...
"Since 2000, Nevada miners have extracted more than $25 billion in gold from this state and have put a tiny fraction of that into state revenues."
"During 2007, mining operations extracted more than 6 million ounces of gold from Nevada. Next to water, gold is Nevada's most precious natural resource, and it is being sucked out faster than the waters of Lake Mead. By the end of this year, 8 million ounces of gold are projected to be produced in Nevada, with very little money going into state coffers."
Gmag,
That is just the problem, we've created contracts that create no incentive for state workers to work as best they can. They receive pay based on longevity not the quality of their work. Termination is difficult meaning their is little punishment for doing a poor job.
Arrangements like this mean we pay more and get less in return. This is bad for the economy, its bad for everyone who doesn't have a government job.
The difference between us is that you seem to only care about government workers and how much we spend you don't care at all about how effectively we spend the money. That is you care more about intentions and completely ignore the results.
blah, blah, blah.
Why don't you go practice for your NPRI gig over at the R.J. The reader's of that rag are more in tune with your "logic". And please, don't patronize me, patrick. You don't know jack about what I care about.