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Nevada’s government among the smallest
Before any cuts, state spends less, employs fewer than almost all others
Sunday, March 8, 2009 | 3 a.m.
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A central question faces the Legislature as it tries to close a $2.3 billion hole with spending cuts, tax increases or some combination of both.
Is Nevada state government too big, too small or just right?
That’s the question legislators must confront.
All else is noise.
If legislators believe our government is too big, they must cut. If they believe it is too small, they must raise taxes or introduce new taxes.
Unfortunately for them, even if they believe our government is the right size, they are in a bind. Unless they raise taxes they cannot pay to continue services at current levels, even as more people require government services because they have lost their jobs.
Gov. Jim Gibbons proposed a budget with only one small tax increase, on hotel rooms, and deep budget cuts, including a 6 percent pay cut for state employees and teachers, and a 36 percent cut in higher education.
So the size of Nevada’s government is a big issue. It is also a subjective one, although legislators can look at some measurements and draw conclusions.
Economists usually measure things by what portion of the total economic pie they consume. By that measurement, as a percentage of gross domestic product, which is essentially the state’s total economic output, Nevada has the leanest state government in the country, according to a Sun analysis.
Even thrifty New Hampshire and deeply red states South Dakota and Texas have bigger governments.
Another way to measure the size of the government is to determine what the state spends per capita. By this measurement, Nevada has the third leanest government in the country, at $1,136 per person in 2007, ahead only of flinty New Hampshire and impoverished Michigan. Despite the small-government rhetoric of Republican Gov. Sarah Palin, Alaska has the highest per capita spending at $6,364 per person.
Here’s another measure of government size: Public employees per capita. On this score, Nevada is the leanest state government in the nation, with 3.86 percent of the population working in the public sector. (That number includes local governments, which tend to be more robust than state government here in Nevada.)
The comparison shows that Nevada is not even close. Nearly half of all states have at least one-third more public employees per capita than Nevada.
What about trends? Economists tend to care more about trends than they do about the state of things at any given moment.
So, for instance, economists are very concerned about health care costs because they are rising far faster than inflation and eating a larger and larger portion of the nation’s total economic output every year — bad trend lines.
What are the trends in Nevada? Is the growth of the public sector unchecked?
Our rate of public employees per capita has remained stable since 1997.
As a percentage of GDP, Nevada government is leaner now than at any time in recent history, according to an analysis by University of Nevada, Reno, economist Elliott Parker.
Parker has become something of a lightning rod in the current debate, having published his own analysis with findings similar to the Sun’s. He’s been attacked by libertarians, including former state Sen. Bob Beers.
Parker, who said he was a Republican until the party moved too far right for him, said he’s no fan of big government, but cannot see cutting our way to a balanced budget.
“I’m not saying we need to be California,” Parker said. “I’m not even saying we need to be average. But we have the smallest government in the country, and cuts would be very damaging.”
Nevada libertarians are happy to acknowledge the numbers, but they say Nevada can still get leaner.
“My response is that it shows Nevada historically has been a leader in allowing the private sector to drive economic growth,” said Geoffrey Lawrence, a fiscal policy analyst for the libertarian Nevada Policy Research Institute. “Compared to other states, we’ve encumbered the private sector much less, but we could do better.”
Lawrence said he and his colleagues haven’t gone line by line through Nevada’s budget or tried to craft their own balanced budget, but he did throw out some ideas.
One is to eliminate the Business and Industry Department. For libertarians, this is a twofer: It would save money — Lawrence said $390 million — while fulfilling a libertarian policy goal of deregulating business.
Lawrence also suggested privatizing our prisons and greater use of competitive bidding.
“When government takes a more extensive role, they crowd out the private sector. Government is not exposed to the same competitive pressures as private health care or education, so overall quality may decline,” he said.
So Lawrence proposed tax credits to businesses to encourage them to set up their own on-site schools.
Harrah’s High School?
“Yeah, something like that.”
Sun reporter David McGrath Schwartz contributed to this story.
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Hugh Anderson and the rest of the government hating gang at the LVCC... you reading this??? Na of course your not.
Someone in the Nevada Department of Corrections should say there are 204 inmates to 1 officer in a unit. Talk about ratio.
I agree with all of these facts;however,Mr.Lawrence is incorrect in assuming that the state can realize savings by privatizing prisons.We tried that a few years back with the womens' prison and the contractor (CCA)..badly mismanaged the facility and cost the state more in inmate driven lawsuits and other mismanagement fiasco's than they ever could have hoped to save.This is,and has always been the legacy of private prison operators from coast to coast.That is why numerous states have passed legislation over the years barring private prison operators in their respective states.
Try 350 to 1......(two housing units,one unarmed officer..)...You want lean state government....man,you got it baby....
Take it from someone who knows someone who walks the walk everyday,amigo...
Recent statistics show that the only sector seeing an increase in employment is government. Social Service (welfare), IRS and law enforcement, all increased.
Consider for a moment the largest landholder in Nevada - the U.S. Government which owns 87% of our state. Also consider that in other states, the U.S.G. collects fees for commercial activities on those lands (timber, grazing, etc.) This was $4billion in 2006 which it distributed to 1850 local governements (i.e., counties).
Now consider that mining - where Nevada ranks 3rd in the WORLD - is excluded from these "payments in lieu of taxes" by the U.S.G. and it's not hard to figure out Nevada gets more for a cow grazing on Fed land than we do when the gold is permanently extracted from it.
Why is it that Nevada gets more for cow dung left behind than it does for gold taken out?
Although a bill passed the House in 2007, Boss Reid torpedoed the bill also aided by a veto threat from his ally, Bush 43. Bush is gone; 1 down 1 to go before we can get some fairness from Nevada's largest landholder.
Gotjobs:
What in the world does IRS at the federal level have to do with the lean government in Nevada at the state level..??
Granted;there has and will be an increased need (employment)..at the state level for social services and law enforcement,given the dire straits of our collective economic downfall.The real point here is that even these agencies cannot navigate increased demand if the governors'proposed budget is carried out.Okay,the last line of defense to prevent total social and financial anarchy is indeed law-enforcement professionals.Some papes say crime is down overall.I say just read the local crime blotters and understand that we have not even approached the bottom of this mess yet and that crime is actually on the rise.You be the judge.
Texexnv:
An extremely valid point ,and well taken!
87% ownership by U.S.Gov't of state lands would lead one to infer that we would be better taken care of in the last salvo of mega-bailouts.(not alot of timber in Nevada ,though..)..Gaming and mining conglomerates in this state;once relied upon as our major revenue streams,have also fallen on generally hard times and I feel that they should be removed as targets for future proposed tax increases.Relying on gaming revenue in large part for so many years has been the catylist for our current budgetary woes.I really hate to say this;and certainlly no politician on either side of the aisle will dare whisper it...yet our only financial salvation lies in enacting a graded personal state income tax.If you want to play,you must pay...
We are 25th in the nation in state taxes per capita.
Some say we have the best platinum and most expensive retirement program in the nation.
Clark county employees are in the top 10 in salary.
State wide we are 18th in the nation in state salaries.
State wide we are 24th in the nation in teacher salaries.
Clark county teachers are 16th in the nation in teacher salaries.
In any event,you really gotta love the latest and greatest proposed stopgap taxation measures being debated by our legifolks in Carson...A dramatically increased sin-tax on a few hundred-thousand smokers in the state as a valid response..???..Green-jobs training to swallow temporary federal bailout dollars in an industry that offers technology most homeowners cannot afford;and the irrelevant bickering over the wages these phantom workers will earn ..????
Proposed taxes on labour for services rendered..??It is high time that we as citizens of this state expect and demand more from our legislators as regards the politically safe and mundane proposals as of late. www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2008-12/m...
With all the vast land resources in this state ;we could develop and build alot of these,or just plainly attract research dollars (or even just already proven nuclear technology) and pipe the energy out of state,just like Saudi-Arabia.(they have free-college for anyone )...
Nevadans aren't stupid louts. We know that the government employee workforce is small compared to other states, but when you count the 1000's of contractor employees doing what government employees ought to be doing, we're probably at the top of the list, if not number one. The CCSD is an example of the way government business is done in Nevada. They paid a computer support company millions of dollars to upgrade the district's individual systems into one gigantic system and then called it off. Why? They got caught using outside help. How many other government agencies have done or are doing the same thing?
JFnance32:
You really shouldn't post and drink at the same time in the morning;perhaps you too forgot to reset your clocks..."Some-say"....what sort of supposed valid information source is that..??Can you provide us with a 50-state's comparison of public employee retirement benefits..??You seem to spew alot of unsubstantiated rhetoric sans any reliable sources.Obviouslly;you portray yourself as one whom is filled with disdain for our hard working public servants.Please ,if you ever need a cop and dial 911,then just remember to leave a "tip" for the responding officer as he may need it if the likes of you had their financial way with them.
Afveteran:
A point well made as regards the current mindset of contracting @ public agencies within the state.The overriding issue here;as I see and have experienced it is simply that there is way too much discretionary power concentrated in the hands of scant few agency beaureaucrats whom often are ill-equipped and professionally unqualified to make those financial and socially responsible decisions.The state of Nevada board of personnel commisioners is a prime example in that these five governor appointed pro-bussiness/anti-labor members have wide sway over 22-thousand state worker employees and all the workplace issues attendant therein.Scary stuff.The list goes on...(the states' prison wardens would also be subject to scrutiny as a group of individuals setting arbitrary and costly policy..)..so many white-elephant-policies spawned by ineficient state or local bueareaucrats should force us to open an elephant game-preserve.
The average firefighter or police officer in Nevada retires at age 55 and lives into his or her mid-80s, collecting up to 30 years of benefits along the way.
When a state employee retires they get to take home each 70% of the their salary.
A few years ago, over 50% Clark County firefighters take home over $100,000 a year.
Wow....at least somebody is doing great in this economy!!!!!!
75% are over 100K, and they work 10 days a month, thats almost $1000 a day! Sweet deal huh! But they are busy putting out all those fires! lol
just info:
http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?...
Legalize all drugs to cut the money from all the cartels, and release all the prisoners kept in because of stupid antiquated drug laws, and then the state will have to cut law enforcement, attornies, prison guards, and even the price of toilet paper and food for the prisoners would be cut. I am all for it. A druggie will kill their own self quicker on their own. Morticians might have to increase their fees. But who cares? Why give everyone the impression that Nevada is stupid or antiquated? That ought to save Mr. Gibbons some money!
Nance, if your home ever catches fire or you need a paramedic, I want to wish you a lot of luck getting help. You will need it. And thanks to people like you, I will need a lot of luck, too.
RE: Mr Lawrence
From your statements I can only recommend you enroll in the Wharton School of Business MBA program in Pennsylvania, where not only business fundamentals, but also liberal arts play a role in providing their students with a prestigious, well rounded perspective of what works best for the common good in society.
Even the Amish community in rural Pennsylvania does not spout the independent life of which you speak, as they work together for the good common good of their communities.
Your world view is one of gravel roads for those building the pyramids leading to gated communities for the Caesars who own them.
If Nevada were a gulf coastal state exposed to hurricane events, or located in the midwest's tornado alley, I would expect, oh, well, you wouldn't be living in a place like that, would you (?), esposed to massive risk and loss where both private and public sector by neccesity work together in good times and bad to restore quality of life.
The desert is a good place for Libertarians to set up shop, like an American Afghanistan, out in the fringes where the ultras can hunker down and wait in fear for bad things to come at them, which never do, so they never learn.
JFnance32:
Again,your noodle is baked as regards any sort of meaningfull concepts of public employee retirement plans.You make it out to be a panacea that clearlly it is not.All active and contributing members of NVPERS Police/Fire retirement system contribute a full 18% of their pretax gross wages unto the system,which through sound investment practices realize interest funds over the life-term of any given member.Not one dime of state-taxpayer money is involved in this financial process.NVPERS retirement system and the checks they send every month to their state law enforcement retirees are wholly supported by active members paying the 18% subsidy unto the system.Furthermore;Nevada has placed a percentage -cap on PERS benefits way back in the eighties in that no public safety officer can recieve more than 75% of their final wage(it is in the Nevada statutes)...and yet California,and most other PERS states have no such restriction in that their retired L/E officers can retire at 100% of last wages or even above.Nance,you are a real jackass to even suggest or contrive that public safety officers in this state are on some sort of self-imagined gravy-train.People like you are exactlly what is wrong with the state of Nevada.
Hey Nance, Look at the RGJ up North and see who is making the big bucks in Local and State Government. From Gibbons staff to his bodyguards there all the people you talk about. Your right Buckley does want to raise taxes, but your boy should set an example for conservative values. Get rid of 50% of the top heavy admins in these government agencies and the citizens would still have teachers in the classroom and cops and firefighters on the street. Now thats a conservative start.
Nance,
"The average firefighter or police officer in Nevada retires at age 55 and lives into his or her mid-80s". Back that one up with an article or proven stat please. Mid 80's, are you on crack?
JFNance32:
If you find that any state/county wages paid to state/local/county professional peace officers over your 100K threshold annoy you,then first realize the 12-24 hour shiftwork and relative danger-factors involved in those public safety deployments..Remember please that when a structure is on fire and everyone in their right mind is running out the front door,your paid firemen are rushing into that same front door to rescue citizens and mitigate structural damage.Unarmed State corrections officers are routinelly spat-upon and ridiculed by thousands of convicted felons on one shift alone.NHP officers patrol vast stretches of our states' highways never knowing if their next stop will be their last.Nance,if you want a piece of these wages in this state;then by all means apply for one of these jobs through "NVAPPS.com" ...otherwise ,just shut the hell-up-about nevada peace officer wages,amigo.If you got the sack,we got the check for you,on a one year probationary-status ,of course.If i was your Supervisor in one of these sensitive positions;I would shurelly can your ass as a whiney little-boy,amigo..
Hey jfnance32,
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Let's see you try out for firefighter or policeman and join the ranks. I'll bet you couldn't get your fat ass around the track quick enough to pass the physical fitness test.....
You public loafer defenders are a joke. Your mentality of firemen rushing in to save a family is stupid-We have few high rises in Henderson, so the most that "firefighters" do is show up at car accidents to hose down gasoline, or show up too late to watch a house burn down. The cops while away the hours in their Tahoes between trips to Dunkins. All of these people are veterans preference high school dopes who would starve to death if they had to find work in the DPS-the Dreaded Private Sector. And don't tell me about their "extra" college courses-Mr. Ed could pass them as long as he could sign his name. "Hello, Wilbur...."
Johnmanrules: http://www.lvrj.com/news/36219814.html
Perhaps you are on crack.
Blondi: "full 18% of their pretax gross wages "
Regular private employees and their employers pay around 15% into social security (state employees pay zero social security taxes).
Does the private employee get a 70% pension of their salary and can retire at 55? No
Nance -
You are paying for some desperation in the 1970s, when it was very difficult, if not impossible, to get teachers, firefighters, etc. to come to Nevada.
Why? State government was so small, pay was so low, all the state could offer was platinum retirement.
You can not go back now and say "Well, we know we PROMISED you in 1974 that when you retire in 35 years (at age 56 or whatever) you'd get 95 percent retirement...but we, well, just can't do it because Chuck Muth & Co. thinks government retirees should live in huts and casino workers' kids should go to high school on the mezzanine of the MGM Grand. Hope you didn't have plans for that money."
A contract is a contract, and if you renege you will be exposing the state to lawsuits galore.
We could cut retirement platinum plans for new hires.
You already did.
Maximum Benefit: If you were hired on or after July 1, 1985, you may earn up to 75% of your average compensation. If you were hired prior to July 1, 1985, you may earn up to 90% of your average compensation.
While you are beating up on Firemen and Police, you miss the bigger picture of CPS stretched too thin resulting in children falling between the cracks and classrooms with 40+ students and not enough paper for handouts while test scores remain flat or drop since the teachers can't get to the students who need help.
Jfnance32:
http://www.nvpers.org/public/documentati...
Read this and then understand the truth.
I'm not impressed with some of the numbers. Lets face it, who really wants to live here anymore. It looks really grim from a political stand-point. The town is in sad shape as far as Healthcare, education, unemployment to creep up 9% and we are worried about firefighters. The one post earlier said he was looking at the crime blotter and he is right, its getting worse. Also, I applied for a police position and passed and guess what, the pay sucks compared to any other city. Things are on the decline and as long as Harry Reid keeps strangling Federal options, he will implode the economy and you can take your one hundred thousand bones and bury it.
Okay,
Every $1 spent on the input front-end =$6.21 in economic output.Sounds like a sound venture to me.We should model Social Security like this.
Nevada PERS paid more than $981 million in pension benefits last year.
Expenditures resulting from Nevada PERS pension payments supported more than $390 million in income for state
residents other than Nevada PERS retirees.
More than 5,700 jobs statewide can be attributed to Nevada PERS pension payments.
Nevada PERS pension payments supported more than $1 billion in total economic output in the state and more
than $433 million in value added.
Payments made to Nevada PERS retirees supported more than $196 million in federal, state, and local tax revenue.
Each dollar paid out in pension benefits to Nevada PERS retirees residing in the state supports $1.28 in total
economic output in Nevada.
Each dollar in taxpayer contributions to Nevada PERS supported $6.21 in total economic output in Nevada.
That is so dumb.
The thrust of the document is that each dollar spent by retirees has multiplier effect because they will keep people employed at food established, bars, gas stations, etc working.
Uhhhhhh.......taxpayers keeping the money would multiplier effect because they will keep people employed at food established, bars, gas stations, etc working.
Each dollar kept by the taxpayers will also have a $6.21 total economic output in Nevada.
It is a lame document.
It was written by the National Institute on Retirement Security which is a union supported and liberal support organization.
Be sure to eat some cookies when drinking that load of kool-aid.
Nance wrote: The thrust of the document is that each dollar spent by retirees has multiplier effect because they will keep people employed at food established, bars, gas stations, etc working.
Yes,Nance,that is exactly the thrust of the document,you dolt.You cannot see the forest through the trees,apparently.NVPERS is essentially modeled after any given 401-K matching fund offered by most corporations.You put in a dollar,and the fund matches that.You can never draw the PERS matching funds untill you meet specific age and service year requirements wherein both funds are released to then fund your retirement checks.(the interest realized in that interim period of 20-30 years from the employee deductions actually pays for the system matching funds...)..Moreover;the state does not recognize collective-bargaining for the majority of its' employees and therefore I do not understand nor support your rants against unions as the suspected evil driving force in this case.If you find this model of retirement security unsatisfactory;then what exactlly do you bring to the table and offer as a viable alternative...??...Would you have us all hawking pencils on the street corner at age 65+ in a vain attempt to supplement our federal social security checks..???...What exactlly would you propose as a solution to retirement security..???....Invest in the stock market..???..Move in with your parents/or adult sons and daughters..??..Commit a crime and let the state corrections system provide it..???..Shove currency into a matress..???...Until you chime in with some actual valuable input for alternatives;I will have little or no respect for you or your opinions.Now you go and eat some cookies and Jonestown kool-aid.
Blondi can not even read the very document that she sourced.
When they talk about a multiplier effect they are talking about the retirees spending the money and not investing the money.
"Expenditures have a "multiplier" effect in a regional or national economy."
It is still a silly document.
No matter if the taxpayer spends or invests or the retiree spends or invests the money they receive ......the the effect is still the same.
There is nothing magically about the retiree getting the money over the taxpayer keeping the money.
As for the PERS investing the money to build up to dole out to the retirement...that is true. That investment has very little to do with Nevada. Most of it is invested outside of Nevada.
If the taxpayers kept the money then they too would be able to invest the money.
I think it would be great if PERS became a 401K type plan and move out of the pre-defined benefit world. Just as long it was not a platinum 401k plan. It should be based on the average 401k plan in Nevada.
jfnance32 wrote:
"As for the PERS investing the money to build up to dole out to the retirement...that is true. That investment has very little to do with Nevada. Most of it is invested outside of Nevada."
Again,nance,you are correct in you assertion that these funds are primarilly invested out-of-state....This is what we call...Wall Street and the Dow,etc...Just like your .."average 401-K plan in Nevada"..
Nance wrote: "When they talk about a multiplier effect they are talking about the retirees spending the money and not investing the money."
nance,exactlly how many state retirees do you think are in a financial position to actually bank their PERS checks..??..Most of them that I know spend them on utilities,mortgages or rent,food,medical,etc....
nance wrote: "If the taxpayers kept the money then they too would be able to invest the money."
The logical response to this sentence would be that we as contributing NVPERS members are ALSO collectivelly taxpayers;and in any event the monies collected from our wages are ...yeah,nance...those funds get invested....go figure that...
nance wrote: "Blondi can not even read the very document that she sourced."
For the record;nance,..I am not a .."She"...
nance wrote: "Just as long it was not a platinum 401k plan. It should be based on the average 401k plan in Nevada."
Response:..What exactlly is a .."platinum"..plan,as you are so fond of categorizing it..??...What sources are you prepared to reveal that indicate what an .."average 401-K plan in Nevada"..actually entails...??
Between sips on that grape kool-aid,please employ a spell-checker.
Hey Nance,
Now go back and read the article you posted and show me where "police and firemen" live into their mid-80. Show me where it says that. Police and Fire are given early retirements because their life expectancy is far less than a "normal" retiree.
Johnmanrules is correct in his assertion that law-enforcement professionals as a group have been proven to have shorter lifespans than many other occupational groups.Just go to the U.S. Dept. of Labor for those statistics.It is not as severe as the average timber-loggers' expected lifespan;and yey buried in these volumes you will find that the average lifespan for corrections officers is 57 years old.Drinking Jonestown,Guyana, grape kool-aid has also been proven to dramatically decrease one's lifespan.The cookies really do not help,either.
Corrections officer:
When Anthony Listy tells people he is a corrections officer, the reaction is inevitably stereotypical.
"They think we're a bunch of thugs."
But Listy, 45, who has worked as a corrections officer for 20 years, said he feels he is more psychologist, teacher, role model and camp counselor to the hundreds of inmates he deals with daily.
He has been attacked on occasion, and receives at least one death threat a day. He has cut down many inmates who have attempted suicide by hanging from bedsheets -- and lost only one.
He carries no weapons.
As for the threats, "You have to just blow 'em off. If you took it personally, you'd never survive in here."
Listy said he abides by two simple rules:
"Treat everyone the same regardless of charges, ethnicity or anything else," he said. "And give and demand respect."
He admits the stress of the job probably has shortened his life (the average lifespan of a corrections officer is less than 60 years), but he is grateful for the income. He started at $8.50 an hour but now makes $15 an hour. He often works as many as 36 hours of overtime a week.
Again,;the average lifespan of a corrections officer is less than 60 years...it bears repeating,nance...
http://www.cjonline.com/stories/101203/j...
johnmanrules:
"The average firefighter or police officer in Nevada retires at age 55 and lives into his or her mid-80s"
LOL........
The keyword is average.
You need to contact the writer of the story where they are getting their information.
I bet the source is PERS adminstration officals.
http://www.nationalcops.org/
nance:
The .."keyword".. here is that you have no socially redeemable characteristics,period.
Your right Nance, my issue can't be with you. Your just quoting what the story stated. I think that the person who stated that is the same one who is asking to raise pers contributions, imagine that. Last time I heard the average US life expectancy is around 76 for women and 74 for men and just googling shows that Police and Firemen live around 5 years less. Either we are living much longer here in Nevada or PERS really needs the state to contribute more money.
jfnance32:
Law enforcement is the biggest stresser of any occupation. this is why police and firemen are covered, solely, by a heart and lung bill, that gives them injuried on duty status, when their health starts to fail.
Running on a Code 3 call in a police car, runs the blood pressure to the moon. your defensive driving has to be at the maximum. going into a shooting situation makes the heart feel like its coming out of your chest. and, foot pursuit. one run and you are exhausted for the remainder of the shift.
Two years after retirement, most police officers die, from the accumulation of heart disease and stress. this is the national average.
Maybe, i am beating the odds. been in law enforcement for 41 years and i still go to work every day.
I have been blessed.