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twitterTHE STATE BUDGET:
Under consideration: Tax brothels, consider legalizing prostitution in Las Vegas
Thursday, Jan. 22, 2009 | 2 a.m.
Reader poll
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State Sen. Bob Coffin says legalization would create new revenue source, be safer for those who participate.
Budget plan
Sun coverage
Carson City — In these tough budgetary times, the chairman of a key state Senate committee is willing to consider the world’s oldest profession as a potential source of new tax revenue.
State Sen. Bob Coffin said Tuesday he would be willing to grant a hearing on proposals to legalize and regulate prostitution in Las Vegas and other urban areas of the state where it’s illegal.
The Las Vegas Democrat, who heads the Senate Taxation Committee, said he also wants to look at taxing the state’s legal brothels in rural counties.
Only “the most naive person on the planet would believe there’s no prostitution going on in the urban areas,” Coffin said. “It’s going on now unregulated and unsafe.
“I have not decided about whether or not I’d support the legalization and control of it in urban areas. But I think it’s an idea worth entertaining.”
Prostitution is legal in most of Nevada’s rural counties, but state law prohibits it in counties with populations in excess of 400,000. That means there are no legal brothels in Las Vegas or Reno.
Previous suggestions that Nevada consider legalizing prostitution throughout the state have gone nowhere. This is the first time in recent memory that a legislator has taken up this issue, but such a proposal would face long odds.
Coffin, who is serving his final term in the Senate because of term limits, said he will focus primarily on getting additional money from legal rural brothels, strip clubs and escort services.
“I’d be happy to listen to arguments for legalization anytime,” Coffin said. “In the meantime, I know we have to get some money from the world’s oldest profession.”
Nevada is the only state to legalize prostitution. But it has an uneasy relationship with the industry. Though rural counties sometimes collect large fees from the businesses, the state has resisted taxing brothels because of the stigma attached to prostitution.
Las Vegas Mayor Oscar Goodman, who has floated the idea of legalizing prostitution as a way to redevelop downtown Las Vegas, said in an interview Wednesday that he thinks there should be an open debate on legalizing it in Nevada’s cities.
Goodman said he recently met with a legislator, whom he declined to name, and “people in the industry” to discuss legalizing prostitution in Las Vegas.
“I’ve always said there should be a serious discussion,” Goodman said. “People assume it’s legal anyhow.”
The mayor said legalizing it would provide a good source of revenue for education and social services, would create a safer environment for all parties involved and reduce sexually transmitted diseases.
“Smart people can have serious discussions without fear of reprisal,” Goodman said. “Right now, there’s no benefit coming out of it for anybody and it’s rampant.”
Asked if he would initiate the conversations, Goodman said no. “But I’ll certainly join into the discussion.”
Coffin said he would consider the idea not only because of the state’s dire financial situation, but also to make the industry safer.
Las Vegas’ red-light district was shut down in the 1940s, when the Army, which operated the military base that would become Nellis Air Force Base, demanded the city close its brothels.
City leaders did and were satisfied when the servicemen spent money in casinos, according to the book “Las Vegas: A Centennial History.”
In 2004, Goodman suggested building a “little Amsterdam” red-light district downtown, but the resulting furor seemed to stall the idea.
County Commissioner Chris Giunchigliani, then a member of the Assembly, said the idea was worth a debate. Casino executives opposed it.
Any change in the law would require the approval of the Legislature, which is unlikely.
As one ranking Assembly Democrat said Wednesday: “There’s no chance in hell this passes.”
Correction: The original headline on this story about legalizing prostitution mischaracterized state Sen. Bob Coffin’s stance. As chairman of the Senate Taxation Committee, Coffin said he was willing to grant a hearing on proposals to legalize prostitution in the state’s urban areas, not that he supported doing so.
Discussion: 77 comments so far…
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This will create alot of badly needed jobs!
Totally agree vegasgurl. I was thinking this morning that in order to not raise taxes but to raise more taxes, we need to consider alternatives. The big and easy one is prostitution. You would have to be utterly blind to not know it is RAMPANT in Vegas. I've been to casinos and been hit on by a half dozen hookers before I finished my first drink. Legalize, make it safe, and tax the hell out of it.
Also even though it's a pipe dream (no pun intended), pot would be another easy budget fix, and it too is very rampant out here.
I agree with vegasgurl....It is happening anyway....why not tax and regulate it.
There is a big downside.
It will make it easier for ladies to enter the sex trade.
Many of these girls are already damaged goods being often abused in their childhoods.
Entering the sex trade will not be a healthy lifestyle for them.
Also, there will be a higher usage by consumers of the sex trade. This will damage marriages. Many wives will eventually find out about the cheating. Some men will get their wife infected with STD's that the men got from the prostitution.
The robust prostitution industry is not good but is a reality.
The robust activity is just another sign of the continue decline of the American civilization.
We, the citizens of Nevada, should raise the white flag and accept the fact that robust prostitution is here and there is nothing we can do about it.
Actually when you regulate the industry, they get weekly or monthly screens for STDs. Basically they try to make prostitution as safe as possible. Will people get STDs? Yeah, but you can also get STDs by going to a club and hooking up for a one night stand. At least at a brothel, you know what you're getting into.
The decline of American civilization? We're talking about the oldest profession in the history of civilization! It only makes sense.
This debate has been needed for a long time. There's no rational reason to keep this industry in the dark. Sunlight is the best disinfectant; bring this industry into the light, tax it, and make it safe for the public health and safety.
The way to regulate it, whether it be a "red light" district or another way should be left up to the local governments.
It's sad that this likely won't pass.
Come'on Folks you can't be serious about taxing the prostitutes, What you are suggesting is that someone else pays for your benefit.
Right now there are meth labs cooking off there product and what you are saying is "well its already being done may as well tax it" Doing this is surrendering to criminals allowing them to apply there trade as long as you get a cut of the procedes,
How about this instead of shifting the burden off on someone else you pay your share.
The time will come that the state will have to Implement a income tax to pay for all of this Infrastructure, Now I know that alot of people are not going to like What i just said but isn't that the same thing you suggested put it off on someone eles eg. (tourist, prostitutes, cab fare rental car, hotelroom.)
First prostitution and pot are relatively victimless crimes that usually don't harm the user. Meth is a horribly addictive substance that kills and make people do weird things. That is a completely apples to zucchinis comparison.
Red, JF,
What makes it safer isn't the regulation its legality. When it is illegal prostitutes only form of real protection is a pimp - aka a criminal with a gun willing to take high risks for high rewards.
As rewards get higher people take more risks including child prostitution and sex slavery.
So should it be legalized. Yes, but not so it can be taxed. What moral philosophy legalizes something just for the sake of taking money from it by force?
It should be legalized so it expands the bounds of human freedom, reduces risks, eliminates criminal management, and drastically reduces the profit from child prostitution and sex slavery.
In this case, it actually makes the sex trade better (quality, disease control, tax revenue). Working in and around casinos for years I can tell you that there are pros and trannie pros everywhere, and they pay their taxes to pimps (these are the ones who will be hurt). Pimps recruit the "abused" and "self esteem" problem girls, they can spot them a mile away, legalizing won't create more girls getting into this, these girls end up in this typically between 15 and 18 years of age anyway.
Prostitution is legalized in Japan and hasn't seemed to affect that city too badly huh?
Why not take the cheddah' from the pimps and create a new revenue stream for the state, it only makes the most sense.
...simple minded folk all y'all are...
Brilliant! Totally for it. See no downside whatsoever. Only upside for everyone involved, and especially the local economy.
May I add...let them advertise, with discretion, wherever it makes sense. Web, Strip billboards, phone book, etc..., but not in community neighborhoods or other similarly sensitive places.
Maybe we can legalize and tax bum fights, dog fights and donkey shows too? How about we have the DMV give special plates to DUI drivers for a tax, they are out there driving anyway? I know we can make it ok for 18 year old girls to go down on old men with no moral compass, but only after their high school homework is finished. You know it already happens...and what happens in Vegas....
God forgive us....
It is so inauthentic to even consider that it doesn't exist in Clark County...it's there anyway, so get a regulatory and taxable grip on it.
Beyond the fact that the revenues raised would not full the state's need, is this really how we want to advertise Nevada? The major problem that both sides of the political divide agree on is attracting more business. Nevada already has difficulties enough convincing companies that their employees will want to live here due to the lack of education, infrastructure, and other QOL issues. Now we are going to advertise that we are encouraging the sex trade? Yeah, that will attract families attempting to raise children.
One of the points being lost here is the money that the state could be taking in from the sex trade that is now legal. And the state should indeed be doing that. The state also should be closing loopholes and taking action to get its full share of taxes from the mining industry. Both legal prostitution and mining are mostly rural industries in Nevada, and it is time that they paid their fair share.
Brings a whole new meaning to the term 'drill baby drill', holla if you hear me!!!
fred,
Nevada is already known for this. There have been several television series (mostly on premium channels like HBO) that have dealt with Nevada brothels. It is well known. Get over it. Additionally I never remembered seeing anyone saying it was going to be a cure all. There is a huge budget issue and we need all the money we can get. This idea would at least be able to put a dent into the budget problem.
And as for other people, have you been to the Strip lately? Have you been there between the hours of 10 PM and 3 AM. The hookers are everywhere in almost every casino. It is incredibly disingenuous for the casinos to block this move when they are getting a cut of the action because pimps and hookers pay off casino workers to turn a blind eye to them. It's here, blatantly in the open, and we should be legalizing it, regulating it, and taxing it. And as for the prudes against 18 year olds doing it, guess what? Just slip in a provision saying you have to have a diploma from high school and you have to be 21. Simple. Sometimes it feels like people want to make issues way more complex and difficult than they really are.
"Maybe we can legalize and tax bum fights, dog fights and donkey shows too?"
Prostitution is already legal.
How long have you lived in Nevada? Have you been to the beach? Disneyland? Hollywood? Mendocino? Napa? Sonoma? Big Sur? Carmel? How about the San Diego Zoo or Sea World? Del Mar? Laguna? Venice? Palm Springs? Lake Arrowhead? Perhaps you've have driven the Redwood forest? Muir Woods? Visited Pier 39 or Ghiradelli Square? Surely you have been to Yosemite? Hearst Castle? Bodega Bay? Lake Shasta? Gold Rush country? The missions? No???
See, new guy, we need reasons for people to come here and spend money. Okay? The desert is nice, but it's all we have. People need a bigger reason other than a mass of rocks and sand to come out here. "Sinning" is what drives Las Vegas. Most people here understand that and accept it without much judgment. It's a conscious compromise.
Some people, like me, feel we need to go a little father in that regard to set ourselves apart once again. Unlike the past, where Vegas largely held a monopoly on legal gambling, people can now do that closer to home in some Indian Casino to have some sin fun. Nice ones too!
We feel that since prostitution is already legal, moving into into, say, the Strip and/or downtown areas, would work within the existing culture and would really help us all.
Legalized prostitution protects everyone involved. Whatever your moral issues may be, and you are not forced to participate btw, accepting what is and being in relationship with it is the best answer. Forcing it to stay 45 mins away in Pahrump is a denial of the truth. Although I'm sure Pahrump doesn't see it that way.
I know Nevada could put cameras in public toilets, start a website and collect "a stream of revenue".
Losers.....
Ok folks so we make the act legal. Do you suppose that the thousands of unscrupulous "ladies" now working illegally as prostitutes in Vegas making tax free bank suddenly become model citizens, obtain a license, and report to work in a legalized brothel?
Or maybe the new law will provide for ID cards for the girls to carry so they can operate as independent contractors? Does that reality complicate things for the "regulate and supervise" school who argue that licensed prostitutes are cleaner, nicer, safer? Who will supervise these free-lancing sexual entrepeneurs should they choose to become licensed and legitimized? The Health Department?
Do you think that in order to eliminate the competition for "legal shops", that a whole new bureaucracy has to be created-or at ,least greatly expanded-in order to enforce the new laws requiring licensing and everything that goes along with it (regular medical exams, age verification, etc.)? Instead of VICE cops, will we pay for business license inspectors, perhaps, to hang out in the resorts? At least we will reduce the jail population. There's a plus.
Perhaps CC School District will start a new A-Tech type program in prostitution directed at young girls who think they may want a career in the prostitution industry? Perhaps the Mayor will advocate for such a program at the Meadows School, which his wife has so long supported?
By-the-way, in Holland and other large urban centers that chose to legalize prostitution, the trend is reversing. Crime has been so rampant in and around these "businesses" (including violent crime, nuisance crime, theft, and narcotics related crime) that they are being closed down in order to improve safety, health, and perception, and to encourage tourism and revitalization. You hear that Mayor?
Wow, you snarky prudes are amazing.
So what if that happens in Holland. For one they had the opposite trend and it stayed strong for a long time.
Second, that's Holland and not the United States. Have you been to the brothels out in Pahrump. I'm guessing not, because that would require you to go outside your boundaries. Those brothels are clean, well administered, and low crime. Beside you are correct, it would be administered by the Health Department, and doin all those things would raise revenues. Additionally, saying we should promote it is jumping the shark. As I said in an earlier post, require a high school diploma and make them be 21. Nuff said.
So all you prudes out there, do you have a better idea? Or do you just want the government to sit on its hands and do nothing about the current crime and the current budget situation.
As for 2zero, you are the snarky one who has nothing to add to the conversation. Additionally your idea would be a gross invasion of privacy.
"By-the-way, in Holland and other large urban centers that chose to legalize prostitution, the trend is reversing."
They are only closing some, about 30% of the brothels and coffee shops. Notice, they are not closing them all and this is not a trend. It is a one time opportunity for Amsterdam to buy out a major vendor with many locations. And, in spite of how you spun it, the goal is to diversify the area with more than just brothels and coffee shops. They will turn them into art studios and other culturally centered offerings.
"Legalized prostitution protects everyone involved."
The prostitution workers will still be at a high risk for STD's unless you are saying that John's need to get a license first and proof of testing to purchase the product.
Also, testing is limited. For instance, I believe to be properly tested for HIV you have to get tested twice over a 2 month period.
Legalizing prostitution just makes the market more intenstive for prostitution in general. Younger girls will come in greater numbers to fill in more intenstive market but will remain the illegal sector. Slavery from Asia and eastern Europe will come in greater numbers, too.
Most (some report over 80%) of the prostitution ladies come from sexual abusive childhoods and have extreme low self-esteem. Protitution will hamper those ladies from over coming that problem of low self-esteem. Also, they often become substance abusers.
Johns sometime bring home STD's to their wives and girlfriends.
Clervical cancer is linked to STD's.
The average age when a lady starts to work in prostitution is 14.
Prostitution often is not a victimless event. It is just an extenstion of a childhoold of sexual abuse.
Bull nance.
You are spouting statistics that just don't match the circumstances. So I'll help you, is there a survey of the ladies in Pahrump. I think you'll find they aren't abused, and they are all of legal age.
As for this garbage about human slavery and making it worse, bull again. Once prostitution is legalized there is NO reason to do it on the streets with a pimp. Do you know what a pimp's cut of a night's earnings is???? 100%. Those women on the street are exploited and don't get to see the money. Women in brothels do see the money, it is safer, cleaner, and more beneficial to the rest of us. As for husbands bring STDs back home... Are you drunk? Because husbands are doing that NOW. With no regulation and nothing to check up on the ladies.
Legalize, regulate, tax.
The arguments against this proposal are illogical and silly. It is long past time for this to happen. Congratulations to State Sen. Bob Coffin for having the courage to stand up and say what obviously needs to be done.
-------------------------------------------
Opinions and Commentary on the Gaming Industry: www.TheBearGrowls.com
The arguments against the proposal and others like it are offered up by people who decided, then found some "evidence" to support their views. Misquoted, taken out of context, spoken from the mind of someone who actually has no idea of what they are talking about. All in the name of their own special "better then yours" morality.
Meanwhile, illegal prostitution continues, which does in fact jeopardize all involved and criminalizes people who aren't criminals.
yeah and all of that.
If you cant beat it -Tax it!
Why are people assuming that those individuals who work in prostitution are "damaged goods."
Many are well educated, well rounded people who are raising children of their own and providing a valuable service. It's about time society got over it's "head in the sand" puritanical and unrealistic attitudes.
Yes, I would wager money that if you surveyed the girls at a brothel in Paprump that a majority of them would say that they were sexual abused in their youth.
I know that Mr. Self-anointed Expert hates it when people do not rely on Mr. Expert's personal knowledge of the world. There are other people in the world who study the issue and obtain the status of expert from their peers and the general public. Mr. expert hates it when I quote from those real experts.
Mr. Expert is probably clueless that there are girls brought to Vegas against their will and forced into prostitution.
In Canada prostitution is legal.
"Vietnamese and Chinese mafia are increasing operations in brothels in Toronto, Canada. They traffic in women from Southeast Asia. Agents pay recruiters up to $8,000 for a woman, who then sell the women to pimps for about $15,000. Agents take 10% of the earnings beyond the original contract. The women are forced to service buyers' 12 hours a day, 400 buyers or $400,000 to pay off their debt. Women are abused and terrorized, being beaten and reportedly burned with hot irons. (Rob Lamberti, "Sex Slaves: Fodder for Flesh Factories the Women Earn Nothing But Tips Until They Pay Off Their $40,000 Contracts," Toronto Sun, 10 May 1998)
"The murder of prostituted women in Canada continues to rise. From 1991-1995 63 prostituted women were murdered in Canada, 26 of which in British Columbia. More than half of the cases remains unsolved. Six to eight others were murdered in 1996 and 1997 in B.C." (Dr. John Lowman criminologist, Paul Dillon, "Life On The Streets in Dangerous," Surrey Leader, 17 May 1998)
"70 to 80% of those involved in the Canadian sex industry began as children. And 80 to 95% are fleeing sexual abuse that usually began at home. "(Kimberly Daum, "Sexually Exploitated Children in Canada: The Law is Not on Their Side," Opinion/Essays, 17 October 1996)
Again and again nance, and I'll say it in small portion for you.
What
About
Pahrump?
If
you
have
nothing
on
Pahrump
it's
bunk.
"Why are people assuming that those individuals who work in prostitution are "damaged goods?""
Because it's easier to assume all or nearly all are damaged goods than to realize the reality that some are, and some aren't, and the fact that some of these individuals have been abused is NOT a reason to outlaw the practice.
Survivors of sexual abuse are capable and able to decide how to live their lives, and can choose to enter the sex trade with open eyes, if it were legalized.
Most of the arguments being flung against the trade have to do with activities that would be outlawed if the activity were legalized. (Child prostitution, unsafe sex, etc.)
It's also nice Nance that you can't seem to dredge up a source that is a little more relevant to the questions at hand. Instead of quoting what happened in another country over a decade ago, you might want to find something else. Do try harder.
Thanks Mr. Thread Watcher........uhmmmmm...you post statements with zero sources.
At least, you should try...then you can try harder later.
"Mr. Expert is probably clueless that there are girls brought to Vegas against their will and forced into prostitution."
And this is an argument against legalized prostitution... how? Women are smuggled to become prostitutes. That is illegal. Wow, shocker! That would continue to be illegal if prostitution was legalized.
"In Canada prostitution is legal."
Actually, there are several circumstances where, in Canada, prostitution is NOT legal. Specifically, when third parties are involved. An individual can offer services to another individual, but if a company, madam or pimp offers services, that is not legal. As usual, add in a little context and jfnance32's statements don't quite add up.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/sectio...
Brothels are against the law.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/sectio...
Driving a friend to a brothel is against the law.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/sectio...
And since jfnance32 is so concerned with human traffic in Canada for sex, he should read:
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/sectio...
Another funny point ksand is that he calls me a thread watcher. This is from the guy who has to comment on every story and get in an argument with every poster.
Additionally, and here's the reason why he should use more contemporaneous sources is that something hadn't happened in the 90s. Now I remember it was a big deal. Damn I'm forgetting, oh yeah, 9/11! That means that it is a lot harder for people to illegally enter the country. Especially from the Far East.
And no I didn't say illegal
"I know that Mr. Self-anointed Expert hates it..."
It's when you speak through your reactions that I most mistrust your information. In fact, I stop reading at that point.
You might not care about that. But then again, maybe you like to be heard. Seems like that matters to you. It matters to me. Otherwise, what's the point?
Anyway, I don't know who you are referring to in your post, but at least in my experience, nobody in this stream has posted anything more or less expert than you have. So...what's up with that?
This is one of those times when I just happen to know something about the topic. Been there, seen that, did some of that, have friends who live there. Ya, Amsterdam. Can't wait to go back. Never afraid there, but not stupid either. Walked many streets, alleys, byways and flyways. Was more afraid in Paris and London, where all this stuff is illegal.
My friends are experts on this topic. We have spoken extensively about it. I learned the basis for an entire industry from them. It's amazing, actually.
I find it interesting because it is so rare. A place where the Catholic Church shares a plaza with a Brothel and Coffee Shop (Oldenkirk). I want us to be that rare. A place where something works that doesn't work anywhere else.
Anywhoo, I'm informed. I like to speak about things I actually know about. The rest of my stuff is just fun and opinions. Okay with you?
The fact that it is illegal and not regulated is the reason that so many minors are abused by people in the industry. I realize this is a sensitive issue but some of the people in this forum need not take things personally. Discuss issues like adults.
"Another funny point ksand is that he calls me a thread watcher. This is from the guy who has to comment on every story and get in an argument with every poster."
Exactly. We're all thread watchers. You, me, jfnance32, johnevegas, Future2012, etc. I don't know why that's a good or bad thing. It's good for me, because I like to engage people and challenge their opinions. It's bad for some because they obviously get tired of the back and forth.
Either way, if "thread watcher" was intended as an insult, it's laughable at best. I post here alot and I have 600-something comments. Jfnance32 has over 3400 comments. Hey, more power to him, I wish I had that much free time!
redferret whining about sources....when he does zero.
Ummm....perhaps you try to post some before whining about them.
Those facts may be 10 years old but that are still accurate. Also, I serious doubt if I presented sources that were 5 seconds old that you would accept them anyway.
ksand99: "Actually, there are several circumstances where, in Canada, prostitution is NOT legal"
What is your point? Are you saying that prostitution should not be regulated at all and with zero restrictions?
Of course human trafficing is illegal in Canada. Yet it happens and it feeds into the legal prostitution operations.
People who say that prostitution is a victimless crime probably are clueless on the number of girls that are forced into prostitution, both legal and illegal.
People who say that prostitution is a victimless crime probably are clueless on type of life's road that many girls take that lead them into prostitution.
"What is your point? Are you saying that prostitution should not be regulated at all and with zero restrictions?"
Congratulations on failing reading comprehension, again. I'm saying that your blanket statement that "In Canada prostitution is legal" leaves out some very important distinctions. (Like the illegal status of brothels, illegal status of madams or pimps, the fact that you can't drive someone to a brothel, etc.)
"Of course human trafficing is illegal in Canada. Yet it happens and it feeds into the legal prostitution operations."
Actually, the evidence you offered for that clearly stated "Vietnamese and Chinese mafia are increasing operations in BROTHELS in Toronto, Canada." So, "it feeds into the legal prostitution operations" is not true.
Furthermore, your evidence was talking about recruiters selling women to pimps... and pimps are not legal, either. So, again, human trafficking, according to your evidence, is feeding into the ILLEGAL prostitution operations.
In other words, you made my point for me. Thanks!
Ya what all you guys just said.
"Anywhoo, I'm informed. I like to speak about things I actually know about. The rest of my stuff is just fun and opinions. Okay with you?"
I am OK with that.
It is just funny that put yourself on this high level above actual experts. Also, you seem to indicate that you are the "ONLY" one qualified to make any statements on certain topics enough though your only qualifications are not remotely like normal expert qualifications in the real world. Also, you must have this crystal ball where you know everything about everybody in the room and have deem none of us qualified.
Wow.....you are expert on everybody on the planet!!!!
"Also, you must have this crystal ball where you know everything about everybody in the room and have deem none of us qualified."
Oh stop, I never said that. I just said that I was and that many speak from preference rather than actual knowledge. That's always the case around moral issues, like gay marriage for example.
I trust what I learned about the place over what newspapers say. They spin it to sell the news. They have a new story every week.
But on the street. It works fine. Has for many years. They keep it within reins, as it should be, and by and large it fulfills a need that would exist either way. To be there, to experience it, it almost becomes quaint.
Families walk by the coffee shops day and night. Nobody cares. Tourists gawk at the window girls day and night. Nobody cares.
Trust me. This is only an issue away from Amsterdam, i.e. in America.
Oh! I know why you are down on Amsterdam! They are way way way liberal in Holland!!! They hated GWB! No wonder!
Okay, I'm done.
"That is a completely apples to zucchinis comparison."
You! Are a very bad boy!
I can't believe I missed that comment. :)
ksand99: You are very clear now. Thanks.
One of your key points is that illegal prostitution exist in Canada where prostitution is legal.
Wow.......good point!
Illegal prostitution and all its trappings, like human trafficking, is still alive and well in a country where prostitution is legal.
Here are some sources that say that human trafficking feeds into both legal and illegal prostitution.
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/colum...
"Legalization does nothing to restore dignity to the work of performing sex acts on strangers. If it did then the majority of women in legal brothels in Germany, the Netherlands and Australia would not be women from the poorest countries in Eastern Europe, Asia and Africa.
Far from eliminating illegal trafficking, it has either stabilized or increased since legalization."
http://globalgirlnetwork.com/2008/03/10/...
"Germany has been rated "very high" by the UN as a destination for trafficking. Germany achieved the most lucrative prostitution economy in Europe after legalizing prostitution in 2002, reaching 7.5 billion in one year."
JohnVegas, Mr. Expert and all knowing of what others know themselves: "spoken from the mind of someone who actually has no idea of what they are talking about"
How did the worlds oldest profession become illegal? Kind of like the war on drugs, spending lots of money to fight it, but it's not working out to well. Seems to me these are "feel good" laws. While it's going on under their noses, the state can say we don't condone that activity. Blind
Maybe Coffin can get Harry Reid on board, don't they have prostitution in Searchlight?
Wow 52 comments, that has to be a Sun record. Apparently the staff had some strong opinions on this issue?
Why don't we all admit, as Snoop Dogg sez, "We all be Ho's!" We all choose to trade our time and talent(s) for treasure...but, since most are not that attractive, well trained or talented enough to make money making whoopee - well, you have to get common jobs in, often, boring occupations!
Stop the jealously and denial and let's get real!
If we legalize it to tax it - let's make sure we have equal pay for everyone!
casinokid, don't mix apples and oranges. Sex is a natural act and most everybody engages in it. If consenting adults want to negotiate a cost for sex I don't really care. Meth is a destructive drug and not natural in any way. Regulating and taxing the business of sex is completely different than regulating and taxing drugs.
"spoken from the mind of someone who actually has no idea of what they are talking about"
I wasn't referring to anyone specifically. I was referring to people whose own moral compass or prejudice prevents them from seeing what's actually there and from making a balanced judgment of it. They do not see or know anything true. It's all skewed to their preferences.
If that's you, well, I guess that's your problem.
Jfnance32, you seem to be implying a connection between prostitution being legal and an increase in trafficking.
That is the only conclusion I can come to with all of your arguments.
But, when you look at the numbers:
"In 2004, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) estimated that 600-800 persons are trafficked into Canada annually and that additional 1,500-2,200 persons are trafficked through Canada into the United States."
In Canada, where prostitution enjoys some legal protection, trafficking is a fraction of that of a nation (the United States) where prostitution is not legal.
Likewise, I could draw the conclusion that 2-3x more people are trafficked where prostitution is illegal vs. where it is legal.
This is my bottom line.
I believe and experts claim that prostitution is not a victimless event.
I also believe that is done a massive scale here in Las Vegas everyday. Law enforcement does not make it a high prority to stop it which makes it viturally legal anyway.
I think society has to sometimes to give up and given in to the corruption of it citizens if it raises to a certain level.
It is just like smoking, gaming and drinking booze and beer. There are tons of victims in all those activities. They are all sources of corruption of the society.
But it would be pointless to outlaw them because they have become a norm of our society.
So we should accept the facts and legalize prostitution. At least, we will get some taxes out of it. It probably will result in more victims which is very sad. It is just another step in the continue decline of the American civilization.
"It is just another step in the continue decline of the American civilization."
I think war is. It is much worse to kill for politics than to have people willingly buy and sell sex legally.
Yes I have to agree that war is the ultimate obscenity.
Sunvisitor,
My point was not about meth or any other drug it was that people justify taxing by saying the activity is already going on and it should be taxed.
It doesn't matter if its the sexual trade or any other criminal act simply saying that it is going on is not enough merit to legalize something to tax it. Me personally i don't understand why it is illegal to charge money for something that is legal to give away for free.
It seems that its ok to tax as long as it's not me.
Since this forum has spun completely out of control let me add this, global warming can be directly linked to warm things getting hotter.
That makes about as much sense as the gibberish that has been posted here.
Comment removed by staff.
Slavery?
casinokid, thanks for clarifying, I misunderstood you.
As a new resident of Las Vegas, I believe that legalizing, taxing and regulating prositution in all of Nevada would be a win/win situation. We could very much use the additional tax base from a business that already exists here within the urban areas of Las Vegas, Henderson and Reno. Putting our heads in the sand. And pretending prostitution doesn't exist here is nieve and dangerous. Why not regulate, tax and check the workers on a regular basis for STD's. Not only will it create additional revenue for the State. But I strongly believe it will SAVE LIVES. Let's be grown up about it.
vegasgurl, redferret, JerryW, UNLVstud, &c. -- with you guys on this one, too.
jfnance, &c. -- your "downside" are lists of uninformed presumptions you are not defending with any credibility. Shouting your opinions don't make them any more credible, and crossing the line from reasonable public debate to peevish insults just makes me stop you and your posts seriously.
What consenting adults do in private has NEVER been an area of legitimate government interest.
Factor in a recent article here mentioned a local brothel owner walking into a government office and offering to be taxed. The state declined.
Funny how money changes things, don't it?
Speaking from experience, I've been with prostitutes where it was illegal. Only one had a pimp, both were white. They approached me and made their offers, not the other way around. They got what they wanted, I got what I wanted, we went our separate ways. It was really no big deal.
It is all about what consenting adults do in privacy being private. Period! Could you say that all of the women who go out with guys they don't really care for just for a free meal, etc are prostitutes? And who cares.
George Carlin had a great quote (edited for TV): Selling's legal, screwing's legal, so why not selling screwing?
"Damaged goods?" There are survivors of sexual abuse from all walks of life employed in all manner of employment so your point is moot. Your cashier at the supermarket or perhaps your bank teller are possibly survivors of sexual abuse. Regulating prostitution will most likely cut down on the teen prostitution trade.
Alcoholics and gambling addicts spend hour$ drinking and gambling in casino$ and we don't hear any whining about that revenue.
Let's tax the world's oldest profession and help out our state's budget, particularly education.
Now on to the impeachment of Gov Gibbons...
Feel free to google...."oaksterdam"...This is what a blighted area of Oakland,Ca., did,..and they are now rolling flush in tourist dollars!
"Regulating prostitution will most likely cut down on the teen prostitution trade."
What.....the same cops that are cracking down on illegal prostitution now, including teen prostituion, are magically going to start doing their jobs?
If you want to legal prostitution because it is so widespread and we could get tax money then that is OK.
But do not be foolish and believe that prostitution is this beautiful and wonderful thing.
Places where they legalized prostitution in large urban cites like in Canada and Germany the amount of illegal human trafficking greatly increases. For those do not know what illegal human trafficking is....it is where they force young girls from poor third world countries and ship them to rich urban areas to work in the sex trade. Also there are the pimps in the US that get young girls, many of them runaways escaping sexual abuse from home, hooked on drugs and make them work the streeets.
Places where they legalized prostitution in large urban cites like in Canada and Germany the still illegal forms of prostitution are still a major headache.
I hope everybody knows that your odds of getting STDS dramatically increases when you have sex with a stranger that has daily multiple partners even with condom use. Some studies show that condom use only halves the odds of getting certain STDs.
Yeah, take a STD home to your wife or girlfriend. There is a high incidents of throat cancer and cervical cancer and a person having STDs.
There is a time period between the time tested and time the results come back. So a person can be a STD carrier and nobody knows about until the test results come back.
Testing for STD's might protect the John's from the prostitution workers but it does not protect the prostitution workers from the John's.
Studies have shown that over 80% of prostitution workers were sexual abuse in their youth and that broken life track often leads them into prostitution.
Studies have shown that a majority of prostitution workers start prostitution before the age of 18.
Studies have shown that a majority of prostitution workers get raped and/or beaten up at some point in their line of work.
Prostitution is a corruption of our society and has many victims.
But is so common in today's society that they should just go ahead and legalized it and tax it.
It is a sad day.
I would be for legalizing it except with these conditions.
At least half of the tax money goes for paying for:
1) More vice cops to enforce laws against illegal prostitution
2) Instead of arresting the prostitution worker, arrest the John's
3) Spend money on mental health program for prostituion workers and sexual abuse youth
4) Have tough laws on illegal human trafficking with life sentences for persons caught running them
5) If a John gets arrest then have him tested for STD and any found then immediately notified his spouse.
"Prostitution is a corruption of our society and has many victims."
War is the corruption of our society and has millions of victims. Killing people for what they believe is among the most perverse things I can imagine.
Lets put your logic to alcohol, shall we? Are you willing to never drink again so that people will stop dying from drunk drivers and wives will stop being beaten by their drunk husbands? Making alcohol illegal is the cost. Are you willing to pay it?
It seems to me that sex is far more natural then drinking alcohol. Although the two do mix well sometimes. :)
I would make alcohol illegal if I thought it would be an effective law. We tried that and it was not effective.
That is why I am saying that we should legalize prostitution because the law is not effective in preventing it. Sometimes civilization has to show the white flag and give in to its own corruption if it is at high level.
You have to be an idiot if you do not know that both alcohol and prostitution has many victims.
I suggest that you talk to a mental health professional that works with prostitution workers to get a clearer idea of who becomes a prostitution worker, why they become one and what happens to them in the trade.
Having sex often with strangers while drunk is a clear sign that a person is a complete fool.
But heck....it is free country. If you want to be idiot then there is no stopping you. If you love STD's or unwanted pregnancies or want to get beaten/rob then go ahead and get drunk and have sex with many times with strangers.
Just an FYI, if you and your wife consumes a significant amout of alcohol and have sex with your wife and conceive a child then there is a significant health risk to fetus.
"I suggest that you talk to a mental health professional that works with prostitution workers to get a clearer idea of who becomes a prostitution worker, why they become one and what happens to them in the trade."
Sure. No denying it. True for many people. But not a reason to penalize everyone. Right? Many people drink. Many of them are alcoholics. But we do not assume everyone is and treat them like they all are. Drink responsibly, right? Same thing.
"Just an FYI, if you and your wife consumes a significant amout of alcohol and have sex with your wife and conceive a child then there is a significant health risk to fetus."
Oddly enough, a relative of mine who would never think of doing some of the things I do, had that exact thing happen. I watched her do it, and warned her of the danger. The outcome was deformity and underdevelopment. All is okay now, 18 years later, but it took surgeries and hormone treatments to correct the problems. Yikes!
"Having sex often with strangers while drunk is a clear sign that a person is a complete fool."
Depends. When did the sex start? Before or after being drunk? :)
I would submit that as with most things in the civil/criminal areas of law it is more about money and who gets/pays it or power and who gets/relegates it. None of the "vices" of our society are going to be eliminated by any law that is passed. They may be controlled or reduced in frequency of offense but not eliminated. If the objective is revenue or to establish some criteria of regulation then legalize. If revenue or regulation has no bearing on the issue then leave it like it is.
Doing things that are illegal elsewhere can make a lot of money. If we want to go that route there are may other revenue possibilities. Sell seats to executions. Sell the organs of prisoners like China does. Legalize the blackmail that results from prostitution. Sell the virginity of run away girls.
Nevada can become the "We sell anything tourists want State". Why not sell women and children. Times are tough.