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Up for review: Who’s giving dropouts their second chance
Lawmaker wants responsibility for adult ed shifted to colleges
Tiffany Brown
Cynthia Ramirez, 17, left, and Efrain Serna, 17, share handouts in a science class last week at the Clark County School District’s Desert Rose High School, where adults can study for a high school diploma.
Tuesday, Jan. 20, 2009 | 2 a.m.
Principal Sandra Ransel says Desert Rose High School, the Clark County School District's only school for adults, serves students who otherwise couldn't stay in school and earn their diplomas.
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Sun archives
State Sen. Barbara Cegavske wants to move funding of adult education from local school districts to the state’s higher education system, arguing that doing so would help steer students away from the high school environment where they’ve already failed.
“If they’re dropping out of high school, there’s a reason,” the Las Vegas Republican says. “If they don’t feel comfortable there, why would you force them to continue to be there?”
Michael Richards, president of the College of Southern Nevada, says he looks forward to exploring Cegavske’s proposal. Legislation that encourages students to complete high school and continue toward a postsecondary degree is of critical importance to the state, he says.
But school district educators say such legislation would only derail a successful and cost-efficient program, which last year led 2,000 dropouts statewide to earn their diplomas.
Nevada ranks near the worst nationally when it comes to its dropout and graduation rates. The state spends about $20 million on adult education, including $7 million at correctional facilities.
Cegavske’s bill would shift adult education programs from local districts to campuses within the Nevada System of Higher Education.
“If we can get those 17- and 18-year-olds who have dropped out onto a community college campus, we might have a better shot at getting them into a two-year program or something vocational,” Cegavske said. “I want to show them that once you get on the college campus, it’s not such a frightening place.”
Some Clark County educators say a college campus can’t provide the level of support, and flexibility in scheduling, that successful Adult Ed programs require. And they wonder why Cegavske wants to tinker with a division that produces thousands of success stories each year.
For the 2008 fiscal year, 27,577 students were enrolled in adult education programs in school districts statewide. That includes students working toward their high school diploma, gaining proficiency in English and studying for U.S. citizenship exams and those preparing to take the General Education Development exam.
A GED does not require the same academic course requirements as a regular diploma. GED recipients also do not have to pass the state’s proficiency exam.
CSN also offers a GED preparation class. But community colleges aren’t currently authorized to issue high school diplomas. So does that mean if the adult education program moves to CSN, students would be limited to earning a GED?
Robert Henry, director of Adult Ed for the Clark County School District, said he’s asking the same question.
“Most of the students who come to us aren’t looking for a GED, they want the full diploma,” Henry said.
The School District’s graduation rate hovers around 60 percent, depending on the formula used. It’s nearly impossible to come up with a comparable rate for the Adult Ed program, Henry said.
The reason: High schools follow a group of students and then determine how many of them graduated by the end of their four years. In adult education programs some students show up needing only a few credits to graduate, and finish in three months. Others stay for three years.
Desert Rose Adult High School in North Las Vegas is the district’s only full-fledged adult ed campus, serving 3,274 students from early morning until late evening.
Among them: 454 students ages 17-19 who are part of a new program that combines vocational training with the core academic classes required for a general diploma.
Desert Rose Principal Sandra Ransel says her campus is an integral component of public education. “We’re not like everybody else — we have hundreds of students coming and going all day long, from 17 to as old as they need to be,” said. “We have to show people we’re an important part of the district. That’s hard to do when our students have dropped out of every other school. We don’t give up on them. They can still become important contributors to our community.”
Three Desert Rose students show the cross section of whom the school serves.
Israel Elder, whose penchant for skipping classes caused him to bounce his way through two comprehensive high schools and two alternative programs in the course of the 2007-08 academic year, arrived in July and is still trying to settle in.
He says he realizes the need for a diploma, and is focused now on completing a mechanical drawing class so he can advance to another class toward earning his diploma.
Jacquez Wright works 35 hours a week at McDonald’s and figures he won’t earn his high school degree until 2010. He said he is grateful for Desert Rose’s flexibility in accommodating his work schedule.
“Here you do everything at your own pace, nothing’s forced,” Wright said. “As soon as I complete this class I go on to the next one. And you can go as slow as you want, if you need to.”
And then there’s Margarita Evans, 17, who left school for an entire year before signing up at Desert Rose in August. She had been in the district’s individualized study program but was forced out after she failed to show up for the all-important proficiency exam. The reason? She couldn’t find child care for her young son.
She excelled in Desert Rose’s nursing vocation class, and is planning on becoming a certified nursing assistant through CSN’s program.
The district Adult Ed program has long wanted to add a vocational component, but lacked the facility and the resources. The phaseout of the Area Trade Technical Center in North Las Vegas, which offered vocational training to juniors and seniors enrolled at comprehensive high schools elsewhere in the district, gave Adult Ed its opportunity.
The last seniors are now taking classes at the School District’s trade tech center, which closes at the end of this academic year. Desert Rose Adult High School has moved in to the building and will inherit dozens of trade classrooms, including welding, electronics and automotive shops. Students also prepare for careers in health and hospitality fields.
Desert Rose has lower operating expenses than a traditional high school, because students are required to provide their own transportation and there’s no cafeteria. Many of the teachers work full time at other schools and teach one or two classes through the Adult Ed program as a way of earning extra-duty pay. The school is also popular with retired teachers who want to work only part time, relieving the district of having to pay benefits for them.
Cegavske said her proposal to put adult ed in the hands of the higher education system is motivated by the state’s tough financial outlook, and a long-held belief that the state’s K-12 and higher ed system should be working on more projects that complement, rather than duplicate, each other’s efforts.
“How do you save money? You share resources,” Cegavske said. “High school is done at 3 p.m. The community colleges should be using those facilities from 3 to 9 p.m.”
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The government wants you. Join the Job Corps. Get on birth control, the babies can wait.
CCSD fails and gets $20 million to fail again?
Somebody force CCSD to do its job the first time, "graduate kids from high school".
CCSD is a colossal monopoly that needs to be dismantled.
Start fresh with multiple school districts and other alternative educational options for our children!
Handing over the Adult Ed program to the colleges and universities will be a tremendous error on the part of the state. These institutions will never succeed with these students because the bureaucracy of CSN and UNLV will stymie these students in their tracks. The rigamarole of registering for college classes and the subsequent excessive fees will destroy the spirit these students have for a GED and/or high school diploma. These institutions will not work hand-in-hand with these students because the system of higher education will stop individualized instruction. I have worked with adult learners, and I can tell you that they need every opportunity to succeed. The college system will not work with these students, and as a result students will be left out in the cold. CCSD, for all its faults, has never let down the adult learners who desperately need this program. If you really care about this program, fund it and support both the learners and the teachers who are doing their best for these students. Instead of castigating CCSD why not try to work within the system to bolster the Adult Education program.
Or we could expect, demand, CCSD get it done K through 12 and not give them 20 million for "adult" education!
One more thing, my friend @ CCSDTeacher; why is it that at 12:20 on a school day, is it, that you are reading the Sun on the internet and posting when you should be "teaching"?
We the people want to back a winner, not a whiner. Start winning the minds of our kids and you will win our support.
Lunch break.... We do get lunch breaks.... Don't you?
How about all "honor roll" students who get the Millenium scholarship and then have to take remedial math and English once they go to college?
That has to the some sort of fraud crime on behalf of CCSD.
Maybe the students had a bad day during placement exams, jfnance32. Most universities place students based on those exams. If a student does poorly on an exam (not a direct reflection of the students' ability... we have ALL had bad tests) then they get thrown in remedial classes, whether they need it or not.
I guess you just think that if one student has to take a remedial class, that means CCSD has failed. I think you should dig a little deeper into the circumstances surrounding each student. I also notice you didn't give an example of such a student. I wonder why that is...
Plus it is funny that someone with such awful grammar and spelling is criticizing ANYONE for needing remedial classes.
That is soooooooooooooooooo funny......a honor roll student had a bad day and they failed the placement test.
..............so many of them, too.
Thanks for the good laugh.
You don't have to fail a placement test, you can simply not achieve the score they require. Mostly, placement tests are based on SAT or ACT scores. A good student can have a poor SAT or ACT score. That seems really hard for you to understand. Maybe you didn't do well, either.
But I'll wait for an example of an "honor roll" student having to take a remedial class.
Prove that your argument isn't one giant straw man fallacy, jfnance32.
Also, the millenium scholarship doesn't pay for remedial classes, so what's your point?
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2...
First, if you earn a high school degree that automatically should prepare you enough to start your Freshmen year in college.
1/3 of Millenium Scholarship recipients have had to remedial classes.
By definition a person who is qualified for a Millenium Scholarship recipients has a 3.0 or higher grade and therefore is an honor roll student.
This is shocking and can not be attributed to poor ACT/SAT testing skills on such a massive scale.
Obviously, the school system is giving out unearned grades and/or clueless on how to run a school system.
LOL.
First, there's no such thing as a "high school degree." It's called a diploma.
Second, scholarship recipients must take remedial classes on their own dime.
Third, an "honor roll student" refers to anyone who has a B-average for a semester. You can flunk all your classes for two semesters and then suddenly become an "honor roll student" by doing average in your classes for a semester.
Fourth, yes, great students can perform poorly on tests. Welcome to reality. A personal friend is doing post-Grad work at Harvard, and he bombed the SAT the first time he took it.
Fifth, the escalating number of students having to take remedial classes is happening nation-wide, and is not limited to CCSD or Nevada.
Maybe you should look at UNLV. In order to take a college-level math class, you must score a minimum of 510 on the SAT math exam. In 2006, 510 was the average SAT math score for ALL students taking the SAT exam in the state of New York. Furthermore, the AVERAGE combined SAT score in Nevada in 2004 was 1021. Half of that? 510.
Score a 509? You "flunked" into remedial, even though by all other measures, you are average. The 510 requirement virtually guarantees that half of those taking the SAT will be placed in remedial classes.
So yes, there is a direct correlation between SAT scores and remedial classes. You can score average on the SAT and still have to take remedial classes at UNLV.
No matter how you try do a tap dance around it.
The school system is cranking out "honor roll" students that have to take remedial math and English.
Just FYI, an student that does bad on ACT/SAT can opt to take the placement test for math and English. If they fail that test then they have to take the remedial class if they desire to go to that college.
Tap dance around it? LOL!
The way the system is setup, if you score an average math score on the SAT, you're forced into remedial classes.
As always, when some context is added your your addled claims, everything changes. You can ignore it all you like, I won't stop you.
Average student?
So a honor roll student is not above average as so many in the real world would expect them to be.
They are just average and are expected to get average grades on the SAT.
1/3 of them are so below average that they have to take remedial English and/or math classes.
I understand now.
Nevada high school grading system is a complete fraud.
CCSD administrators are hard at work with the "spin" on this blog site.....
Las Vegas was at one time called the "Mississippi of the west" for its racist policies.
Today it is the Mississippi for its education system.
Actually, the comment I made was "average score," not average student. Once again you "quote" me saying something I didn't say.
How sad and dishonest.
As I stated before, as evidenced by numerous child development studies, two individuals with similar capabilities can see dramatic differences in test scores.
That, jfnance32, is reality.
1/3 of the above average scoring students in Nevada's high schools, according to ksand99, generated below average scores on their SAT's and also failed on additional college placement math and English tests and are forced to take remedial classes.
Only in ksand99's world is all that fine and dandy and the public school system is in great shape.
He blames it all on their test taking abilities. 1/3 of the honor roll student's according to ksand99 do not know who to take a test. Somehow, these students who have poor test taking abilities somehow got "B" averages in high school on all those tests.
"1/3 of the above average scoring students in Nevada's high schools, according to ksand99, generated below average scores on their SAT's and also failed on additional college placement math and English tests and are forced to take remedial classes."
Not all students who perform poorly on the SAT or ACT take the college placement tests, for various reasons. "According to ksand99?" Nope. Not what I said.
"Only in ksand99's world is all that fine and dandy and the public school system is in great shape."
Did I say it was in "great shape?" Nope. It's funny that, when you can't address the argument, you make up stuff and put words into people's mouths.
"He blames it all on their test taking abilities. 1/3 of the honor roll student's according to ksand99 do not know who to take a test. Somehow, these students who have poor test taking abilities somehow got "B" averages in high school on all those tests."
I blame SOME of it on their test taking abilities, not "all." Again, you really aren't good at reading, are you? Also, I didn't say they "couldn't take a test," so that argument is debunked. As for B averages performing badly on tests? You are aware that grades for students are based on several tests, lots of homework, participation, projects, etc, right? One bad test can average out over time. In addition, students are offered make-up tests, extra credit... you get the picture.
Or, at least I hope you get the picture.
If you would spend less time telling me what I didn't say, maybe we could have a good discussion.
Only in the world of Ksand99.....1/3 of honor roll students that go to college in Nevada have to take remedial math and English.
Oh.....they are just having problems taking tests.
You made me laugh so hard tonight.
Yes, it is a proven fact that some students do not do well on standardized tests.
"Only in the world of Ksand99.....1/3 of honor roll students that go to college in Nevada have to take remedial math and English."
Yes, some kids who use the millennium scholarship have to take remedial classes after earning average scores on standardized tests. If they score average on a standardized test, does that mean that schooling has failed? No.
If they score average on a standardized test, does that mean that the grading system has failed? No.
Thus, to misconstrue remedial classes with a failure of the school system is faulty. There are plenty of kids who do well in school, take the SAT or ACT and earn a score that places them in "remedial" classes in college.
But I can see you don't have arguments to offer. When you have something constructive to add to the discussion, let me know.
Nevada was at the bottom of the barrel, with Mississippi, on high school graduate ACT/SAT test scores.
Since only half the CCSD children actually graduate, again bottom rung, to take the test; we can only conclude CCSD is a colossal failure.
That graduation rate is based off the number of students who begin 9th grade but don't receive a diploma. It fails to take into account the transitory nature of the town.
Also, the other major barrier standing in the way of graduation? Proficiency exams. A standardized test. Well, fancy that!
I agree, some reforms can be made to boost graduation rates in CCSD, but if anyone thinks less money will somehow help the problem, I'd love to hear the case and evidence.
Dear Honor Roll Student,
We are sorry to inform you that you do not have the skills start your Freshmen classes. CCSD has given you grades that you did not deserve or CCSD is clueless on how to educate you. You now need to take some remedial classes.
P.S. Sorry to inform you also that not only you did poorly on your SAT but you also failed to achieve the proper scores in UNLV's placement test in English and math.
Nance, you are spinning wildly here.
The reasons CCSD students drop out or don't get a diploma or test poorly in math & english are rooted largely in SOCIO-ECONOMICS.
Sometimes I wonder if you are putting us all on with your nonsense because you LOVE LOVE LOVE all the attention you get, or if you are in fact as ignorant as you sound.
A significant part of honor roll students have to take remedial English and math classes in college because of socil-economics according to gmag39 or bad test taking skills according to ksand99.
I think that I have never heard of more lame excuses for the fraud of an education system that is going on at CCSD.
Lame excuses. Do you live in a vacuum?
And can't you ever learn to spell, or punctuate or write a cohesive sentence?
I would advise all to ignore jfnance32. He comments on every article, apparently has no job and/or is hired to comment. He rarely adds anything to the discussion, rather he tends to say things on a tangent that will elicit a response.
Speaking of school, remember how we all dealt with the kid that acted up? We ignored him until he realized he wasn't gonna get the attention he was missing at home from us.