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Friday, Jan. 9, 2009 | 2 a.m.
Gov. Jim Gibbons will propose state workers, schoolteachers and university employees take a 6 percent pay cut in the budget he will unveil next week, according to sources with knowledge of the plan.
The move is part of a spending plan that Gibbons’ staff has admitted will be painful to enact, but one that keeps the governor’s pledge not to raise taxes.
Reactions from the state employee union, teachers union, university professors and Democratic Assembly leadership were blunt.
Gibbons’ proposal is “despicable,” said John Jasonek, executive director of the Clark County Education Association, which represents the majority of teachers in the state’s largest school district.
“I would hope that he would step down as governor and let someone truly lead before he would make a request like that of teachers, many of whom can barely make it now on the pay they get,” Jasonek said.
“Teachers in Nevada are already some of the lowest-paid employees in our state,” Assembly Speaker Barbara Buckley said. “To cut salaries is extremely bad for our state and our schools.”
The governor’s executive staff and outside advisers have spent the past weeks hashing out a two-year budget of $5.7 billion, the amount of tax revenue the state is projected to receive. Their target has been to cut roughly $2.3 billion from the budget that the Legislature approved in 2007.
A 6 percent cut in salaries would save the general fund $432 million over the next two fiscal years, according to Dan Burns, the governor’s spokesman.
Burns said he was not permitted, under state law, to talk about the governor’s budget before it is presented to the Legislature, when Gibbons gives his State of the State address on Jan. 15.
Yet partial outlines of the governor’s budget have gone out to department heads, budget analysts and constitutional officers in advance of the regular legislative session, which starts in February.
“There will be very, very difficult choices ahead for a lot of citizens,” Burns said.
Burns and Gibbons’ chief of staff, Josh Hicks, said the governor has tried to avoid layoffs.
“The largest expense for the state is personnel,” Burns said. “We have looked at everything we can reduce without having massive layoffs or drastic action like that.”
In July 2007, state workers got a 2 percent raise. In July 2008, they received a 4 percent raise.
Government employee pay has long been a target for conservatives in Nevada. The pay cut proposed by Gibbons, which the Democratically controlled Legislature still must vote on, would not affect the state’s highest-paid government workers.
A study by the Greater Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce last year found that local government employees, with the exception of teachers, made 131 percent of the national average. State employees made only slightly more than the national average. Nevada teachers made 93.5 percent of the national average.
The study also found that Nevada had the fewest state and local employees per capita in the nation.
Gibbons has talked about salary reductions as he’s discussed the state budget shortfall, and volunteered to be the first to take a pay cut. He makes $141,000 a year.
Gibbons has said he will not include any step pay increases — raises built into the pay scale for certain jobs — in his budgets.
Members of the state employees union earn, on average, $44,400 a year, said Dennis Mallory, chief of staff of the state chapter of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees.
“This is the equivalent of a tax increase, except it’s focused on one segment of the population,” he said. “It’s taking money out of our pockets.”
Burns called that analogy “a real stretch.”
“When you do not have enough money to pay them all, there aren’t a lot of options,” he said. “You’re either reducing the number of employees, or reducing the cost of those employees.”
Public employees have seen higher costs for benefits passed this year and university employees were told to prepare for a freeze on cost-of-living and merit pay, said Gregory Brown, an associate professor at UNLV and chapter president of Nevada Faculty Alliance.
“Taking money out of people’s pockets would have a seriously detrimental effect on the effort to build and maintain the university system,” he said.
Politically, cutting the pay of teachers is likely to be most troublesome for the governor. Teachers tend to have the public’s sympathies and their union is perceived as a more potent force than that of state workers.
A 6 percent pay cut for teachers “is entirely too much for a workforce that is already underpaid,” said Clark County School Board President Terri Janison.
Superintendent Walt Rulffes said he could not support a pay cut for teachers, many of whom will likely be asked to shoulder larger class sizes as a result of the budget. And given that teacher pay is set by a contract, a cut by the Legislature would be “fertile ground for a lawsuit,” Rulffes said.
In a 2008 survey, the National Education Association ranked Nevada 23rd in the nation with an average teacher salary of $47,710. For a rookie teacher, it would take four years and a master’s degree to reach $47,658.
Given that half of Clark County’s teachers leave the district within five years, many never reach the average salary level.
In 2007, Nevada’s starting teacher salary of $35,480 ranked 19th in the nation, according to the American Federation of Teachers.
“Everybody in the state has to have this discussion,” Janison said. “What any cuts are going to look like in the end, I don’t know. But I think all parties have to be at the table.”
Sun reporter Emily Richmond contributed to this story.
Teachers will leave Nevada in droves if this pay cut is implemented. What a stupid idea!
This is a tax on teachers and state workers. Why do they need to pay for the failure of our state government's lack of a healthy tax structure?
Gibbons is an idiot. We might as well have run this article in the National Enquirer next to his dating record and a story about werewolves running our country.
If anyones salaries needs to be cut, it's the fat-cat administrators!!!!!!!!!!
It is time for the citizens of this state to stand up to this idiot and say NO.
We don't want education cut across the board. Cut out some of the administration or send them back into the classroom to teach.
You can either educate them now, or incarcerate them later, at a much higher cost.
Instead of cutting education, how about we cut the prison budget? All those "TOUGH ON CRIME" laws that got us here to begin with. Enough is enough. Our prisons are full of non violent offenders who need counseling and have substance abuse issues. Do we really need to pay 25,000 a year to incarcerate them when sucessful programs exist that would cost a lot less?
We need to get smart on crime, and let go of the vengence mantra that is bankrupting our state.
read my lips:
NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.
Love Guv Frankenstein couldn't govern a kindergarten classroom.
Just when I thought Gibbons get any dumber...he does.
This is a terrible idea--cutting teacher pay!
I agree with those who say that administrator pay should cut. Better yet put the administrators on a shorter work week.
We cannot be cutting teachers pay. They are grossly underpaid now throughout our natiion.
Why are they talking to Gov. Jim Gibbons about the state budget. Gibbons is out gunned by the Democratic lawmakers.
Gibbons is a figurehead only and can only offer a proposal.
The veto proof Democratic Legislature has sole control over what happens.
Lets be candid here.
The budget for next year is going to be about the same as the actual for this year.
Then we can add the billions of dollars of Obama stimulus money as a bonus.
That is actual. So the goal can be to just hold down ecalating cost such as salaries.
What we have not yet heard is the Legislature's tax proposals.
Will an increased room tax work when room are empty?
We do not need Gov. Jim Gibbons plans we need the Legislature's tax and spend plan.
The LV Sun needs to present the Legislature's tax and spend plan
Enough already. Gibbons needs to go, and we need fairness in out tax structure. Right now, mining pays next to nothing and out-of-state corporations that do business here (everyone from Wal-Mart to Target to whoever) pay next to nothing. Worse, these companies charge Nevada customers the same prices they charge in states where they pay significant taxes - we get ZERO benefit from these greedy companies for giving them tax breaks.
Balancing the budget on the backs of teachers (and no, I am not a teacher) is not just a bad idea - it is an offensive idea. This proposal IS a de facto tax on teachers - while mining and Wal-Mart laugh all the way to the bank. ENOUGH.
"Teachers will leave Nevada in droves if this pay cut is implemented."
They should go to California where they are laying off teachers in droves.
The private sector has been hit hard with layoffs, benefits reduction and pay freezes.
God forbid if state workers have to suffer any. It will be the end of the world.
Why not place the grossly over paid school administrators on the same pay scale as teachers and then pay them for their extra duties. For example, supervision of school activities. You can't tell me that administrators work more than the average teacher. They do not have to take work home with them, they do not have to deal with students all day, and they get to set their own schedule. Walk into any school during the months of June or August and you will have a hard time finding a administrator, you will only find the secretaries working. During these months they are paid, but are not held accountable for being at their given school. I also believe you could cut at least one administrator at each secondary school and you wouldn't even notice they were gone.
Nance that is one bad idea. We already are behind in teachers and lack quality ones. Cutting their pay will just force the schools to rely on band-aids even more, and as any good doctor knows band aids only cover up the problem, not solve it.
Nevada teachers pay is 25h in the nation.
So they are "not behind".
It is better to have a pay cut than no job at all.
I'm in agreement with "jfnance32". It is a tough thing to swallow, but reality of the poor econonic times. Here is one I heard on the streets that I hope isn't true.......Heard that University of Reno is dropping some classes and when asked why they said that they are doing it to get the general public to complain to elected officals so they can get more money. Something is wrong there. The high paid professors need to slow their research and get back in the classrooms. They could save a lot of money by not using so many TA's in the classrooms. I made the decision months ago that my son/daughter are seeking an education out-of-state and glad I did.
The veto proof Democratic Legislature has sole control over what happens.
We do not need Gov. Jim Gibbons plans we need the Nevada Legislature's tax and spend plan.
The LV Sun needs to present the Nevada Legislature's tax and spend plan
So, how much of the governor's salary is he proposing to cut, and how much of a legislator's salary is he proposing to cut? Aren't they state employees?
So...when do the jets and pilots...mansion and servants...limos and chauffers get a pay cut?
I have been teaching here for four years now. When I started Nevada was ranked 48th in starting teacher pay. They have since moved up to, I believe, 19th in that regard. So things are definitely better than they were salary-wise.
I really don't have a problem with the governor asking for this. I would have the conversation. However, where I do have a problem is that he is apparently not asking district-level administrators to take a similar salary reduction (at least that hasn't been mentioned in either the RJ or the Sun).
It was published here recently that CCSD's head of HR makes $140K. Dr. Rulffes makes about $400K. That is only two examples out of the thousands of employees who work in the three administration buildings and various regional district offices and never set foot in a classroom. If they are also being asked to cut their salaries then I'm more willing to listen to the proposal. otherwise it's simply not equitable.
Other ideas that I have that will obviously never get anywhere are to outsource the ECS duties (educational computer specialist), outsource much of the facilities functions (we have to wait forever to get things fixed anyway), cut the assistant principal position from all elementary school (it's just not a necessary job), have principals serve more than one school just as counselors, special ed. coordinators, and nurses do. We don't need a principal here every day. Heck, mine is out of the building frequently anyway.
The state has to be careful about raising taxes to high or raising the wrong ones because it could cause the economic downturn to be longer and/or deeper. That would harm the precious future government revenue intake.
I would hope that state workers would take a pay freeze instead of layoffs. But if they want layoffs then they will get layoffs.
Sometimes it seems that government workers are more concern about their benefits than all the private people that getting layoff, pay frozen and/or benefits reduced.
I have ONE word for the Luv Guv ---------S T R I K E...... Teachers will do this, and when you say that public employees can't do this, all I can say is that the state constitution is written on toilet paper, and we can do this because Gibbons the Monkey Guv is not abiding with our contracts.
Why should the state workers and teachers have to bear the brunt of the financial crisis?
Everyone in the State of Nevada needs to help fix this problem, not just the select few that the governor has the power to hurt.
I understand the arguments already presented...it's better to take a pay cut than to have no job at all. That is fine...as long as EVERYONE takes a pay cut, not just the teachers and state workers. It is easy for others to comment on and agree with pay cuts that do not affect them.
It's my understanding that teachers are already paying for school supplies out of their own pockets. What a discrace to our state. Mr. Gibbons has no idea of what it takes to govern our state. Much like his personal life our state is in shambles. Gibbons should go and allow a person with the tools, education, wisdom to tackle the mess he brought about.
Teachers should be willing to give up 6% as income for the state has been reduced. Would they rather pay higher taxes and take on larger classes? Teachers have weekends, holidays, nights, and summers off. I think it's time they quit complaining.
"I understand the arguments already presented...it's better to take a pay cut than to have no job at all. That is fine...as long as EVERYONE takes a pay cut,"
I guess you are not aware.
Many in the private sector are taking pay cuts. Some have taken 100% pay cuts.
Of course no one wants to see taxes raised, but why should one part of the population be responsible for paying for the majority of the rest? Everyone in the state uses its resources- roads, teachers, special programs- so why shouldn't everyone be asked to help contribute? It's not fair for the state employees to carry the weight of the state's budget crisis on their back simply because they had the misfortune of getting a government job position- and afterall, they are just part of the population, it's absurd to target them simply because they work for the state. I think Gibbons is going to see a lot of negative results from this move, he's going to lose a lot of qualified people to private organizations that will pay and treat them better, and won't sacrifice their salaries when there are other options available.
"he's going to lose a lot of qualified people to private organizations that will pay and treat them better, "
That is funny.
A state worker has hardly any pressure to perform. It takes an act of God to fire a state worker. A private worker gets fired if he looks at his boss the wrong way.
A state worker can retire at 70% of their salary after 25 years. A private work gets nothing like that.
A state worker will get subidized health insurance in retirement. A private worker gets nothing like that.
Yea....state workers leaving cushy state jobs with tons of benefits for private jobs.
I needed a good laugh.
Maybe they should start by cuting out the OT of the CCSD 'roofing supervisor' who probably made more just in OT (over 61,000) than most teachers make in regular salary. And while he's at it I hope Gibbons remembers to cut HIS salary as well. PS - what is a roofing supervisor anyway? One who supervises roofs? How about this - can the supervisor and when there's a problem with the roof call in a contractor to just fix it. And then be done with it.
oops - that should be cutTing....
I am a bit confused regarding the proposal...What I read is that every state employee will be given a 6 percent pay decrease but it doesn't affect the state's highest paid employees?!! Every entity involved in this state, including Gibbons should be cut if they decide to allow the proposal to pass!
As a school district employee before I transferred to the Admin building, I worked in the schools alongside the Teachers and I know firsthand how much dedication they have for their students to succeed. Our educators are making progress towards their own education to improve their classroom structure and instead of rewarding them for their achievements, Gibbons wants to take it away from them. And, does he really want to hassle with law suits for contracted teachers? That is just another waste of time and money that could be spent on other matters.
I wonder if he would consider keeping state employees at the same pay rate instead of decreasing salaries. He just approved the City of Las Vegas employees an increase for cost of living...so there must be something in the budget for everyone else in the state to fall under the same statue. And if there was an increase in taxes how much would the increase be? Why not add a state tax for Nevada and deduct it from the sales tax that every county pays? There are so many options that could be explored...I would just hate to see state employees struggle even more than they are now. Good job at bringing the state's moral down Gibbons.
A few people in this forum are using the argument that teacher salaries should be cut because workers in the public sector are losing jobs and taking pay cuts. However, I see one major flaw in this argument. Public sector workers are taking pay cuts and losing jobs because their business has been reduced, and therefore businesses do not need as many workers to work as many hours. Teacher work loads, on the other hand, are only increasing during this economic crisis as open positions are not filled and budgets are cut. We keep asking teachers to do more with less, and since teachers are generally very giving people who are in the profession for the kids, they keep doing it. Eventually, though, there will come a point where teachers simply can not do it all.
Also, I find it interesting that many people talk about administrator salaries as if they are not on the chopping block. Last time I checked, administrators (and district support staff personnel as well) are state employees, and would be affected as well.
State workers want to put on this level where there are not citizens but a protected class and we are to support them with their platinum benefits no matter now many private citizens' jobs are sacrificed.
There is a price deflation that is going. State workers should accept a salary decrease because the price of many goods, like gas, are actually lower this year than last year.
If state workers want layoffs instead, I am cool with that.
"I have ONE word for the Luv Guv ---------S T R I K E...... Teachers will do this, and when you say that public employees can't do this, all I can say is that the state constitution is written on toilet paper"
Well I bet we can save alot of money if teachers strike.
That is the best budget reduction idea I have today.
I am a patriot and willing to do what it takes to get our country out of this financial fix. I do have serious concerns with our Governor's plans for cutting teacher salaries. The one sector of business that should never be subjected to cuts is k-12 public teacher salaries.
Teacher pay has almost never been commensurate with the tremendous contribution those individuals make to society. If anyone should be paid more in times of crisis, it would be K-12 classroom educators.
Many of us tend to selectively forget where we learned to read and write.....even governors and their advisors. Don't cut the financial throats of those dedicated individuals that are educating the next generation of American citizens.
I am laughing my a_ _ off right now! Spewed my drink on the wall I laughed so hard!
LasVegas 2009 must be on drugs!
This is the quote of the millenium-"And parents would be responsible for keeping up with there (spelling) kids instead of state run day-care."
Parents are running from responsibility faster than O.J. can steal his memories! Teach for a week at a middle school and you will see firsthand the overwhelming responsibility pouring out of American households. It is enough to make you sick, but the little darlings always find time to play video games. No homework gets done, but they know every level of Halo 1, 2 and 3.
Laughing again and just can't stop- he he he he.
jfnance32:
I read your comments all the time and agree with about 1/4 of them. The other 3/4 are seemingly just rants or anger. I read alot from you but don't see much other than complaining.
I definately agree something needs to be done but not just to a minority.
State workers CAN NOT retire after 25 years. Police and Fire can retire after 20 but all others must do at least 30 to retire, which will probably change soon.
Many private companies do offer 401k for their employees so some of the private sector does get the benifits.
The state can not keep workers because they come and get training and then move on to the County, City (LV, NLV and Henderson) because of the big difference in pay. This is a bigger problem than most people know. And I know that people are leaving state employment all the time to go to the private sector due to the pay.
Things are not what you seem to think they are.
vivavegas made a great point about that teachers are not lack of work to do. The work is abundant if you are in the classrooms. I meet with 150 students daily and have mountainous load of work.
The argument about, "You want to take less, or you want to be laid off?" only applies to those who do not have work to do. 30% off a regular check for having nothing to do as LasVegas2009 claimed s/he was experiencing is bogus. Bewilderingly, people like LasVegas2009 are forcing the unjustified 6% cut down our throat, while not worrying about their not having anything to do yet getting 70% of the salary. It is ultimate form dishonesty, wouldn't you say, LasVegas2009?
You should get one of those $130k jobs as a cop with CCSD to watch basketball games.
LOL....Somebody has took the peace.
In regards to jfnance32's comments.
I am a state employee. In my career I have worked in both the public and private sector. Protected class with platinum benefits? I wish. I have been with the state long enough that I no longer receive a raise. The only time I see an increase to my income is during the intermittent COLA. Otherwise, I continue to work hard, because of my work ethic. Platinum benefits? In the last four years, the cost of my benefits has increased while the actual benefits have decreased. Decrease my pay and I will be another stat in the foreclosure column and be a larger burden for the state. Decrease the pay for many state employees, or have the threat of layoffs and it will decrease the benefits provided to all.
Increase taxes overall, and we all take on the burden. Don't place poor decisions on one sector. We should all step up!!
We can exchange benefits any time of the year.
I can not retire in 25/30 years with 70% of salary.
I will not get subidize health insurance when I retire.
I do not get a bunch of vacation and holidays off.
I have bosses/customers breathing down my neck and ready to give me the boot when I do not perform which is a rarity in the government sector.
The private sector has taken a very hard hit.
Now you want us put even more higher sector at risk of losing more jobgs because of higher taxes.
It is time for the easy street government workers to step up.
Also, did anyone notice that they are not going to apply this cut to top administrators? What about contractors? Let's propose better business practices and not take this out on the backs of those in the middle or at the bottom.
"It is time for the easy street government workers to step up."
My sister is a teacher - an excellent one too. She works her butt off every day, then works her butt off during that 3-month "vacation" to be a better teacher. And yet she has to take a pay cut while Gibbons sits on his fat butt and draws the same check?
No way. You can't break union contracts like that. Gibbons can try, but then the state will have to spend the money to defend itself from a lawsuit.
They should be glad they have jobs. 6% is less than us private sector people have taken. Shut up and deal with it. I would like to be nicer about it, but municipal and state employees simply don't care about the people that feed them.
We all ate good for a few years. I have no sensitivity for those that wont deal with a little less and force the rest of us to pony up so they dont have to.
The years everyone ate well, guess what-- state employees remained the same. No bonuses, no increased benefits--nada. Top administrators and those they reward contracts to see the benefits.
It appears that people are slightly delusional in how they view state employees. Yes, some may have easy jobs, but that percantage is a far cry from those of us who work hard.
I could easily double my salary in the private sector, but I moved from the private sector to the public sector for reasons beyond money. Similar to that of teachers. We don't get into this for the money.
No pay cut????
Go for layoffs.
I can see that having a reasonable discussion about a very serious issue is not going to happen with people making "flippant" comments.
I could respond in the same manner. Layoffs? Fine. I have been here 15+ years and have bumping rights. I'll be fine.
However, cutting pay is not going to fix how the state got into this mess. How many people have to say that we have an archaic tax structure? Want to destroy the state and sink it even further? Go ahead, put a bandaid on the severed artery. Cut the 6%. Now what in 5 years?
Incidentally the one thing that has been danced around is what if you can't lay them off and you can't cut their pay?
You cut teachers, who's going to actually teach classes? Only subs? More subs?
I agree with the teachers; strike if you have to. The only problem is if they bring in scabs from out of state.
"How many people have to say that we have an archaic tax structure?"
No other state is going through Nevada's problem.
Nope....California is just peachy with their robust broad tax structure with income taxes on both businesses and individuals.
Not....they have been having problems for years.
Can somebody point to a state that who is not cutting their budget and who is not dependent on energy revenue from oil and gas?
I think the tax structure argument is bogus.
Then you are going to say.....diversify the economy.....increasing broad base business tax is sure not going to help that.
Growth is high...raise taxes.
No growth...raise taxes.
The sun is shining ....raise taxes.
It is raining...raise taxes.
Jfnance: I am surprised to hear that you actually have a job since you seem to spend your entire day spewing out garbage. You also seem to have serious issues with teachers. We are the ones that educate the future of this country. We spend our days nurturing and mentoring 160 different kids. Teachers also go to school at night to obtain Masters degrees and spend summers taking class after class. I would like to know how much education you have Nance? How many hours a week do you work full time and go to school at night? When I start my day at 5:00 AM I never stop for one minute during the day. We have children from every walk of life in our rooms and we have to keep them focused and interested in learning. Teaching is the most demanding job on earth, however it is also one of the most rewarding jobs on earth. When students tell me that they did not like to read until they had my class, I feel so blessed. We don't want to leave the classroom, but we will if the money is cut.
I think teachers, like yourself, want to placed on a level that is god-like which is silly.
You have a job. If you do not like that job then you should quit and move on.
Public education is broken. The teacher unions do not want to fix it. They just more money for teacher salaries.
The only thing that will fix public education is freedom...freedom from teacher unions and freedom from government control. Public education will only be fixed when it is placed into the hands of people.
And the answer is. . . Call the Feds; put up a FOR RENT sign on Yucca Mountain. Monthly Rent = $100,000,000.00. It's time to get off our high horse and admit we are in trouble. . . SHOW ME THE MONEY! . . . Or keep hurting the people who are least able to stand the hit.
Not all state workers are paid from the general fund-something to think about. There are many of us being paid thru federal tax dollars. Raising taxes across the board sales and property ever so slightly would distribute the burdeon on all Nevadans not just a few. No one will notice 1/4 to 1/2% sales tax; it would generate revenue along with a similar % on property. The entire tax base needs to be restructured so it is fair for everyone - businesses and private citizens without the current narrow focus.
There are mining companies that extract billions of dollars from the ground in Nevada that do not pay a cent in taxes.
To know that, and to see these bizarre decrees from Governor Gump just make them all the more ridiculous.
The "no new taxes" dogma is dumb, and is not a fiscal policy. Of course some cutting needs to be done, but so long as there is a billion-dollar industry here that does not pay it's fair share, workers should innundate their legislators with demands to make the mining industry pay it's fair share.
"Public education will only be fixed when it is placed into the hands of people."
Ah, the cry of the libertarian.
Do you really think parents who do not even bother to get involved in their children's education are going to bother with making sure their kid gets an education at all?
IT IS ABOUT TIME! THANK GOD FOR SOME SENSE FINALLY!
There has been so much mismanagement in all areas of state government, but ESPECIALLY in the financial sinkhole known as the CCSD.
Want to compare salaries? Take a teacher's salary - then add on the 70% of their pay over the 40 years after they retire and cry me a river over how impoverished they are - not to mention the fat cat public teet suckers such as our new brain dead senator Shirley Breeden.
Anyone in the public sector getting a 4% annual raise and 70% of their pay in perpetuity after they "retire" (at 45 anyone?) Before you buy the public unions' BS, add this on and compare to your own salaries.
I for one am sick of supporting these incompetents that couldn't make it 10 minutes in the private sector. I really didn't care for Gibbons until he made a stand and stuck to his campaign promise - a promise that he ran on and was elected on.
Seriously... any of you want to pay another $0.10 a year to pay towards these bloated retirements and salaries? Where is OUR guaranteed retirement and raises?
The NSEA is the new Vegas mafia and they need to GO GO GO!
Yes - Attention all CCSD employees - ESPECIALLY ADMINISTRATORS! I BEG YOU! PLEASE CARRY THROUGH WITH YOUR THREAT AND QUIT (in droves) IMMEDIATELY!
Yeah right... like they will ever leave those cushy defined benefit plans. Will NEVER happen.
Not to mention they aren't going to quit jobs in this economy to go to the private sector where performance and skills are required.
I'll call that bluff. What a crock.
And for all of you calling this a tax on public employees - a principal reason we're in this situation we're in, is that their unions have been sucking the state dry for years and have put us in the same positon as the UAW has the US auto industry.
They have done such a good snow job on the public convincing them that teachers are so underpaid while failint to point out they get 3 months off of work every year, annual guaranteed salary increases, and pay for life even after they quit - Boo frickin hoo.
The insane salaries many public employees are collectiing now amount to a TAX ON WORKING NEVADANS!
They will never quit!
nance, just shut the hell up. you do not have a clue what you are talking about. thank you.
Gmag: I am with you, Nance, just shut the hell up. He really does not have a clue what he is talking about.
jfnance "Public education will only be fixed when it is placed into the hands of people."
Who is running it now? Space aliens?
The governor should leave the teachers pay alone. One place the governor has NOT looked at is DPS. Every state parole and probation officer in this state has their very own Crown Vic Police interceptor. Why does a parole/probation agent need such a high-priced, high performance police vehicle at taxpayers expense. These "agents" take their cars home every day and night and use them as their personal vehicles and we taxpayers have to foot the bill for fuel and maintenance on these unneccesary cars. The state could save MILLIONS $$$ by not buying these expensive, souped-up cars for agents who do not need them and do not get into high-speed pursuits. Nor do they carry 4 people. Get them cheaper, greener cars, and make them leave them at the office when not on duty. Turn over the savings to the teachers in this state. There is too much wasteful spending at DPS and unneccesary cars that they dont need.
I know many NSHE professors who are looking for other teaching positions. The most qualified WILL leave. That's it, those are the "free market" rules. Lower their pay, cut their benefits and you will RUIN education in Nevada forever. Great job, Gov. Gibbons!!!
"I know many NSHE professors who are looking for other teaching positions. The most qualified WILL leave."
This is nonsense. If they want to do that then it is their business. If they want to lose senority in this very poor job market then they have the right to make silly decisions. It is a free world.
They are going to have a hard time finding any teaching job open. I guess they are clueless about the economy. Most states are having a hard time funding their budgets. California is laying off teachers and college professors. I am sure they will very happy to take a job from a Nevada professor.
Nevada needs to cut Gibbon's wages in full.... This Governor, who holds this office, does not deserve a wage at all.... This proposal is a Joke just like Gibbons... Insulting to this Great State and it's people...
eagldrivr,
You have no clue what you are talking about! There is not one officer who drives a crown victoria. The vehicles which you are referring to are chevy impalas and they are 6 cylinders. About 10 percent of the vehicles are impala's, the rest are chevy malibu's, chevy cobalts, dodge stratus', and ford taraus'. Not exactly your "high performance" vehicles. Next, if you are caught using the vehicle for personal use you can be disciplined and fired. It sounds like you know a little about what parole and probation does, so you know that they are conducting home contacts on felons and taking them to jail in these cars. Last time I checked, most people wouldn't want to take a 6'4" 250 pound felon to jail in a prius. And while you are bashing on parole and probation, check the overtime budget. Yep, zero dollars and zero cents. Try saying that about any other government agency on the planet. Get a damn clue before you talk about something you don't know about.
Everyone: All your comments are valid! Please email Gibbons with your comments! It's crucial that we do more than talk to each other! Here's what i wrote:
Dear Mr. Gibbons, I am one of hundreds of thousands of employees who work in the school district and I was very unhappy to read that you are planning to cut our salary by 6%. This is a terrible thing to do! As it is, our paperwork far exceeds any actual teaching, or in my case, speech therapy, that I provide for my kids. I'm not alone in this. I'm afraid that I, along with many others, would become lax in those accountability areas because we are not, as it is, appreciated for our unbelievably difficult, stressful and emotionally draining professions, draining to those of us that care so much about our kids that we stay up late and work through our weekends and pay for supplies out of our own pockets. I mean, what would be the point? Accountable to whom? To those who are not appreciating how much we do for our students? You are going to be taking food out of people's mouths, literally. Could you blame us if we stood up to you and said ENOUGH!! Schedule meetings and send home paperwork for these meeting YOURSELF, fill out the reams of paperwork per each individual child's IEP YOURSELF, because we will no longer be able to justify the importance of doing these things if we are not being paid WHAT WE DESERVE. Speech pathologists, professionals with Masters Degrees DO NOT HAVE SECRETARIES AND HAVE CASELOADS OF 60 AND HIGHER. I work every Saturday and I'm at work till almost 6:00, at least 3 days a week. How will you sleep at night knowing that you are contributing to our nights on end without sleep, broken marriages, kids neglected at home because the care provider(s) had to get 2nd and 3rd jobs because of this bill you are proposing? It's uncanny to me that you would even consider such a proposal! Certainly you have a family, certainly you see for yourself how hard teachers work!! I choose to work in schools because I cannot work in hospital or rehab settings. My work is so draining and the breaks afforded throughout the year are needed in order for me to work at my best once we track on again. You must, I beg you, come up with another solution! Ask every Nevadan to contribute a monetary sum per month and use that money to counter the deficit but please, please don't cut into our salary!! Yours Respectfully, Susan Markcity Speech Pathologist Reno, Nevada
Susan, most likely your pay is not going to be cut by 6%.
Most likely there will be some taxes will go up which means some more private workers are going to lose their jobs this year. I know that brings tears to your eyes.
Most likely state workers will be laid off. The number will depend on how much they can reduce labor cost outside of layoffs.
If you want to prevent your job from being cut or your fellow government workers' jobs then you should consider something that will reduce labor cost for the state.
What gets me, is that these teachers are already using their salaries to pay for classroom supplies for these children. Now they want to cut their pay as well, by more than $2,000+. Why even bother being a teacher? They do this and the teachers will leave for good. It's bad enough that our kids are already not getting that good of an education, but what the hell, lets make it even worse.
What they need to do is cut every city employees salary (that makes over $100k per year) by 15% to 20%. There's your savings. After all, they don't seem to be doing a very good job at the moment anyhow. Let those who can afford to take the paycuts, be the ones "who take the paycuts". They can always afford to lose their second house or third car without running the risk of becoming homeless. Why should teachers be forced to take that risk? It's not their fault the economy is in the crapper.
finally a gov w/guts.everybody knows it is these extreme salaries,retirement and benefit packages that these employees demand that is causing all states to go bankrupt.they could never get these in the private sector.why do you think they have sooooo much money to spend on their union organizing and tv and media ads.let them join the rest of us and take home less and if they don't like it give them a map showing all of the roads leaving nevada.lets see them get and keep a job in the private sector w/o all of those days off each year,most of them would end up in the hospital from having to work a real job,cry babies and whiners,give me a break.
jfnance32 has posted numerous hostile messages toward teachers. The last message he sent to Susan, who eloquently expressed how much workload we have as teachers, sarcastically suggested to Susan that "... some more private workers are going to lose their jobs this year. I know that brings tears to your eyes."
His logic is grossly flawed. But that statement accentuates the point he repeatedly and shamelessly promotes - private sectors people are worth more than people who work at public entities.
I had excelled in schools. After receiving my Masters degree, I had worked in private sectors for 15 years with my abundant industries recognized certifications. When I became a teacher, I was shocked at how low the salary was, half of what I was making in the private industries. But this was what I had always wanted to do. I wanted to educate students, to change their lives for the better. Good teachers make all the difference in a person's life. I wanted to be that teacher.
All I read from jfnance32 toward teachers was hate, jealousy, and "you help private sector out".
Many posters already pointed out that jfnance32 knows nothing and spews garbage. I still can't stop speculating, based on my passion toward people in general, that maybe he's had a tough time at school while growing up, and now he is picked on at work, and quarrels non-stop at home. Otherwise the only possibility is that he is trying to play a REVERSE Robinhood.
We shall educate his children with no less attention, care and guidance, so they become better citizen than their Dad. And this is for the common good for the society. And that's why I gave up my high salary to move from the private sectors.
billm...another clueless flamer. Poor poor me.
I'm in the private sector, and i don't get blah blah blah.
This crap is repeated ad-nauseum in good times and bad.
Again, people, without decent pay and benefits, BOTH of which get inflated by the likes of the nances and billms NO ONE would do most of these jobs. It would not be
worth the time, effort and frustration. You may even end up with a Nance or billm behind the counter at DMV or in your child's classroom; FATHOM THAT.
I'm in the private sector myself, part-time minimum wage for the time being (unfortunately). I never got a degree, but that's my fault. I've tried to get a couple of public sector jobs but didn't succeed. I just want to say that those of you in the private sector bagging on public sector workers don't know sh*t. My dad has worked in the public sector for 25+ years in the waste water district for the county. He works 10 hour days, puts in overtime at the drop of a hat in emergency situations, studies and attends mandatory certification courses that updates his knowledge, has come home with his clothes in shambles, torn and burned due to chemicals, arms/legs with mild burns, and drop dead tired. He gets calls at all hours of the day or evening as needed and has come home with on-call monitoring equipment that has kept him on 24 hour-call for up to a couple of weeks straight at a time. He may get paid better than some private sector workers, but believe me, he earns his pay and has the education, knowledge and experience to back it up. I only wish I had done the same and found a county job.
My mom works in the private sector as an assistant G.M. and works as hard as my dad. Neither is better than the other or works harder than the other. She is also educated and has many years of knowledge and experience and also earns her pay.
I've seen it from both angles and grew up with it d*mn near from the start, so I know. Although the public sector gets more money for their work due to the challenges of the jobs, neither sector is any easier than the other. So quit you're whining. If you don't believe me then get off your butts and get a public sector job and see how easy it really is. Then and only then will you have the right to b*tch, moan and groan about it, except by then you'll know what a horses a** you've been acting like.
The solution is simple. Do NOT cut anyone's salary. When CCSD runs out of money, close the schools. Teachers, administrators, school bus drivers, cafeteria ladies, secretaries, etc. will go on welfare, parents will have to find other babysitting services, and the kids will enjoy their months off from school. At that point Gibbons and his cronies will have to call for a special session. Taxes will be raised, and we all will live happily ever after. Simple, isn't it?
I am a Republican and gave Gibbons my vote. Gibbons has violated everything a Republican should believe in: family value, integrity, and competency. I was further blown away by his idea of cutting the low-pay, high-workload K-12 teachers' measley salary by 6%.
Amidst jfnance32's jumping up and down to cheer for others' looming unjust cut, I was glad to see some very fair and enlightening statements such as those from CCSD_Teacher and Eagle5001. I, too, have worked at both sides. I know jfnance32's extreme hostility toward workers at public entities is entirely unfounded.
jfnance32 screams his philosophy of "injury is better than death". Has he thought about K-12 school teachers are working their hardest to provide a healthy environment at schools for the society and there is no need to inflict injury? As LasVegas2009, another poster who called out for teachers to "help" the private industries, admitted that he has far less clients and far less sales, therefore he is getting less pay, which is proportionally higher than when he had more sales. You see why there is no need to inflict injury to teachers who have no less workload today than yesterday? It's communism for jfnance32 to call for equal pay cut for people who a lot to do, and nothing to do.
K-12 teachers are already paid a lot less for the education and training they are required for the job before any of the budget crisis. That solid fact is something jfnance32 avoids arduously. He keeps demanding everyone to be cut equally, as if there was true equality in the pays among private and public sectors before this crisis. There was not. If there was, you would have seen a lot more of "CCSD_Teacher"s that gave up their high pay private sector jobs to come to the public schools, but you don't see that.
It is plainly wrong for the Governor to propose salary cut for the teachers. They have born more burden in the society before the crisis already, and shouldn't be the only people to be penalized in his proposal. Everyone should help then everyone should pay higher taxes to help.
Get rid of illegal aliens that are parasites in our society; go to our schools and use our medical facilities for free. Don't punish your hardest working child with deducting her allowance, while you have squadders in your house and eating your food away. Let's work on those simple facts. Would we?
"K-12 teachers are already paid a lot less for the education and training they are required for the job before any of the budget crisis."
Teachers salary are ranked 25th in the nation.
They get on avg 45K for nine months of work. $60k if that is extended to 12 months.
They pay no SS tax. So $60K times the SS no tax benefit equals $64.5K a year.
Plus they have platinum benefits.
They can retire after 30 years of work. So they can retire at 55 if they wanted to with like 70% of salary.
They will get subidized health insurance when they retire.
Plus they get all kinds of days off that the private sector does not get.
Plus, they hardly have any pressure to perform. It takes an act of God to get one fired.
So quit whining about those government jobs.
It is tough out there.
I am sure that you cry no tears for all those people that will get laid off because of higher taxes.
OK..Let me get this straight: The Governor would rather put the cuts on the backs of the working folks in Nevada, rather than on the businesses that come here and take advantage of the MEGA cheapness of starting and running a business here in Nevada. Those of you who believe that educators are adequately paid have it all wrong! Our educators are underpaid for what they have to deal with everyday. Teaching is a skill and a lobor of love that not everyone has. Let's value it for a change!
jfnance32 your comments are plain stupidity. Don't you have anything else to do than posting a milion messages on these forums? Go get a life
Busting the myths by jfnance32! (Part I)
Say you are hired by someone to do work for 3 month at $5000 a month. But they only pay you to work that 3 months. Can you go around and tell people that you have an annual salary of $60,000 with this employer? NO.
Therefore, don't tell us an annual salary $45K K-12 teacher is making $60K, because he is not.
Say you pay $1 in the vending machine to get a can of soda. I am as thirsty, but don't have $1, therefore I don't buy soda. The difference between you and me? You get to enjoy that soda but I don't.
CCSD teahers don't get to choose what retirement plan they can have. They don't get to contribute, then they don't take out from it.
I personally would prefer to continue contributing to the social security due to my past years of contribution in the private sectors. I was counting on that to be adequate. But individual teachers don't get to choose. You make it sound like everyone welcomes it - NOT true.
I have been to both sectors. I don't understand why you said CCSD teacgers have "platinum benefits". They are comparable with each other. I pay out of my pocket to upgrade to the platinum plan, which is no nicer than what I had in the private industries. jfnance32, would you rather teachers have bad health, so they die early, after pass the diseases to your children? What is your mentality here?
"They can retire after 30 years of work. So they can retire at 55 if they wanted to with like 70% of salary". jfnance32, I didn't start with the public schools until my late 40s, so obviously I am not going to be able to retire at 55 with 70% salary, and never will. But what is your point?
30 years is a very long time to stay in one profession, not to mention a pretty exhausting profession like teaching public schools. If the teachers are rewarded for their tenacity and consistency in education, more power to them.
Many computer industries people - private sectors, mind you, have retired in their 30s with houses on the beach, yachts, jets, ... How dare them? Shall we go REDISTRIBUTE their hard-earned wealth?
Everyone chooses his routes in life. You talk as if you were put on a path by an "outside" force. I chose to move from a lucrative private sector to teaching public school children because I have ideas and I am implementing them.
Busting the myths by jfnance32! (Part II)
It is vicious of jfnance32 to say that people of public entities "hardly have any pressure to perform". Do you ,jfnance32, have conscience? Then why does it matter who you work for? You should always do your best, then the day you close your eyes to leave this world, you could say, "I have done my best".
If you must be in a "private sector" to perform, otherwise you don't, then it's your choice, not mine, and you have no right to judge me who am more conscientious than you.
I have seen plenty of deadwood in the private industries. With your accusation pattern, the same can be said, "People in the private industries hardly have to perform".
jfnance32, if the public entities have so many outrageous benefits, then why didn't you join? I will tell you why it took me a long time to finally move to the public entities - the money. The money was good in the private sectors, much better than public entities. Why did I have to have Nevada Day off when I was making so much more? The off days are nothing. Not enough to bring you to the public sectors, are they?
So many people try to explicate the situations to you. Please use this as an educational opportunity for yourself. If you still feel we in the public schools have so many benefits you desire but don't get, then come join us, and see how long you will last in this "non-performing" sector. Without conscience and dedication, you never would have chosen this profession to start with. And you know that.
It's not just about what teacher's get paid.
IT'S ABOUT OUR KIDS!!!!
We need good teacher's for OUR kids. If you cut the pay, the good teachers will leave. OUR kids don't deserve this and our state can't afford it.
When will we see that EDUCATION for OUR kids needs to be a priority???
Thank you LasVegan. Well said. We need people like you in this state.
It's hard to tell if JFnance suffers from arrogance or ignorence, but what is certain is that s/he suffers an illusion I once shared.
I entered teaching as a second career in my early 40s- taking over a 20% paycut but typcially idealistic. Afterall, I reasoned, a nine month year, home early, students yearning to learn and supportive parents would be hard to beat- but it was a half truth. As the media hastened their assault against public education, some parents held teachers more accountable and their kids less- so student incentive dropped. Newspapers placed the blame for society's escalating ills squarely on the back of education.
While enormously rewarding, teaching ultimately proved to be the hardest job I had ever undertaken.
I once shared that same narrow view promoted by the media and absorbed by the public that teachers are paid for holidays and summers. NOT SO- they are paid only for their 184 +/- contracted days - though the pay is evenly divided amoung 12 months to maintain steady income levels.
Further, the physical teaching of kids is only the tip of the iceberg most visible to the public. A significant part of the job is what the public doesn't see- all the necessary & mandated planning and bookkeeping that starts after hours free to the taxpayer. Teachers are the only state employees who receive no overtime though it is a critical part of their job.
The state gets teachers incredibly cheap- we dip deep into our own shallow pockets to provide classroom supplies the district does not provide- sometimes into thousands a year depending on the school site's needs. Some teachers bring food and clothing to the neediest in their schools. They are incredibly generous and selfless when society fails these kids- yet no one recognizes that.
I just retired with a small pension- nearly half of which goes to insurance. According to the state retirement system, teachers are a unique group of NON-STATE employees so we pay considerably higher premiums as well as high deductibles. The generous perks never materialized as advertized. Perhaps they were a fiction manufactured by a the RJ who inexplicably despises all state/non state employees but especially teachers.
Everyone has a choice of what career path to follow but to place a personal financial burden on one population while others in higher paid jobs in city/county/federal government who also used NV services remain untouched is not only grotesquely unjust but may be unconstitutional as a discrimatory tax and personal financial burden on one group to the benefit of another larger one.
Looking back on my wonderful teaching experience, I would say teachers are one of the taxpayer's best bargains- they get us cheap and don't even know it. Yet teachers nobility in purpose and dedication still goes largely unrecognized!
There have got to be another more equitable way.