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Planned dog park meets howls
‘It’s just too close,’ homeowner says, echoing others in Henderson community
Tiffany Brown
Catalina Estates residents, from left, Martine Jordan, Denise Drost, Jan Peters and Cindy, Jay, Ali and Christian Lake stand Wednesday in the basin bordering their neighborhood. The neighbors oppose improvements to the Arroyo Grande Sports complex, scheduled to get under way in May, that include a bike track, a dog park and renovations.
Thursday, Jan. 8, 2009 | 2 a.m.
Denise Drost, left, and Jay Lake and his 4-year-old son, Christian, climb out of the basin Wednesday near their homes in Henderson. The neighbors oppose planned additions to the nearby Arroyo Grande Sports Complex because of the noise, odors and decreased property values they say would follow.
When the Henderson Parks and Recreation Department added amenities to a trailhead in the retirement community of Sun City Anthem, some neighbors complained that it would attract more traffic to their street.
Beyond the Sun
Now, in another part of town, the city wants to add a dog park and an off-road bicycle track to the 60-acre Arroyo Grande Sports Complex.
And, yes, neighbors are complaining.
Residents of the gated Catalina Estates don’t welcome the noise, odors and general commotion they say will come from the other side of their block walls.
The city wants to spend $11 million on the park, including renovating trails and softball fields on the other side of the sprawling complex.
It’s the proposed dog park that really rattles Cindy Lake’s cage.
“I’m a dog lover,” she said, standing next to her pool and looking at the flood control detention basin that is set to become a 2.5-acre dog park. “I’ve never taken my dog to a dog park because I have a back yard.”
She and other neighbors, who bought their homes for about $500,000, say their back-yard barbecues will be spoiled by the smells and barking that accompany dog parks.
“They’ve ruined my life by proposing this,” she said.
Martine Jordan, another resident, says she’s worried, too, about more trash blowing up against her wall and the prospect of dog owners peering into her back yard.
“It’s just too close,” she said.
Lake, Jordan and their Catalina Estates neighbors are the newest voices in a growing opposition to dog parks. Across the country, proposed dog parks have riled the people who live closest to them. A New Jersey town spent $50,00 altering a dog park last year after a public outcry about morning noise. In Oakland, Calif., the hours of a $400,000 dog park were adjusted to accommodate neighbors who complained.
Henderson plans to start the project, which is still being designed, in May.
Later this month the project will be the subject of a public meeting.
“People have wanted a dog park over there,” said Kim Becker, a city spokeswoman. “We have worked to revamp the plans to try to make the people happy.”
Although the softball parks will remain lighted, the dog and bicycle parks will not be.
Becker noted the city has moved the dog park and the bike track to more than 150 feet from the nearest neighbors’ walls. Earlier plans called for a buffer of only 30 feet.
But even a 150-foot separation between the park additions and neighbors’ back walls is insufficient, says Lake, a real estate agent. She says her property values would be improved by most parks — but not one for animals.
“We pay almost $4,000 a year in taxes,” she wrote in a recent e-mail to city officials. “We paid $485,000 for our home that may be worth $375,000 today and zero if this project were ever to come to fruition.”
The project is being funded by the Southern Nevada Land Management Act, which funds municipal parks through the sale of Bureau of Land Management parcels.
Work on the four softball fields has begun and this week workers were removing the old grass.
Shade covers will be placed on bleachers, and netting will be placed next to the outfield fences to stop home run balls headed for windshields.
Neighbors seem to be OK with that. Lake said she enjoys the sound of ballgames in the summer. Dogs are allowed at the softball fields as long as they are leashed.
Discussion: 41 comments so far…
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noise from barking dogs? Do your neighbors have dogs? I am sure the noise is just as great next door less then 10 feet opposed to 150'. The owner who claims I have a back yard and that is where my dogs stays. I guess you do not believe in socilaizing your dog. Why do people have to push back on plans for a park which is good for dogs to run and play with other dogs? Yet do not complain about having noisy kids run around in their own playground and doing far worse then a dog. Your in henderson so if you are crying about smells recycled water that is worse then a dog park will ever get. A place for kids and adults to ride their MT bike and complaining about that. Stop crying and support. The people of the area can work with the city to help on noise polution and the creation of places for people to go that is near by. Property value dropping is BS.
Hey, don't the elite dog owners get to a have a place to take their dogs for a 'play date' - just like the elite people do for their kids? Play Date??? wtf. Kids used to just go outside and play and people used to just take their dogs for a walk - now we have to set up special parks and what-nots? No wonder this town is going broke.
"they've ruined my life by proposing this."
"worried about more trash blowing up against the wall."
Are these people for real???????
Elitist snobbery at it's ugliest.
You people have some serious issues, and they don't have anything to do with ball fields and dog parks.
I live across the street from a dog park in an apartment complex on Harmon and Jimmy Durante. I NEVER hear any barks from the park or any smells until I reach the property of the of the park. Usually it doesn't even smell only on occasion, because this isn't your back yard where poop lays around all day no and where urines not watered down by sprinklers. Its a public park and many owners take pride in being a great dog owner and pick up after there dogs.
This year were going to try to even move into a house right next to the dog park. because even though we will have a yard, I want my dogs to be used to all kinds of dogs and all kinds of people so they don't become fear full of what they don't know and also because I want my dogs to have a rich full happy life.
So if your life is going to be ruined by the dog park e mail me photos of your house so I can think about buying it, One mans trash is another's treasure :-D
Also I hate it when people let there bratty kids play outside my apartment window and be all loud when I'm trying to take a mid afternoon nap on my day off.(I'm 25, work 2 jobs and I'm tired) and if only their parents would take them to a park for the same reasons I take my dogs that be great too.
"they've ruined my life by proposing this."
Holy cow! I'm glad my life is not that fragile.
I love the "they ruined my life" and the equally good "trash blowing against my wall.
First it's a sad life if a dog park will ruin it. Second you don't face the wall facing the park. I doubt trash will blow there much, but in any case the wall already looks like garbage due to the large amounts of efflorescence (the chalky white stuff at the bottom.)
In any case it is most hilarious seeing a person say "We paid $485,000 for our home that may be worth $375,000 today and zero if this project were ever to come to fruition." I severely doubt that. These people are alarmists and running to the hills. The parks don't reek, people take care of their leavings, and it's just better for the community, lighten up.
Azsk8fan, you never have anything constructive to say. If dog parks are the reason why "this town" is going broke, perhaps you can pontificate as to why all those "other towns" are going broke.
One hundred fifty feet is sufficient separation from the neighborhood. These self centered whiners need to grow up and become a part of society.
NIMBYism at its purest and finest.
No proposal for an alternative solution, just NOT IN MY BACK YARD!
Nice.
Politics....parks and politicians.
I remember owning a house at Rainbow & Gowan. We could not wait for the park to be built, it was wonderful. Mostly it was wonderful because it was "Children's Memorial Park". Trees were planted to memorialize kids we lost too early in life. What a great place to take our children.
Then one day a City Councilman figured he could get a few votes by putting in a dog park. Carved out a little land and fenced it in. What a joke it ruined the park. Now, I love dogs, got three Border Collies. Someone decided to put a dog park in buckskin basin. This was a great idea, it is away from the place where kids play, it is big so dogs can run and it is less than a mile from Children Memorial Park.
Dog parks do not need to be and should not be part of kid parks.
As for these folks standing in the mud. Give them what they want, a drainage ditch.
I am constantly amazed at how shallow peoples lives have become.
I am sure everybody that is protesting this dog park has something better to do. Waste time watching TV or jumping to some other conclusions or gossipping about a neighbor......something anything.
I have a solution, since they don't want a dog park maybe henderson can put a hiking trail in the basin. LMAO
The proposal is for 30 feet from our backyard. It's anticipated that 40-60 dogs per day will visit. Come on now, owners don't always pick up after their dogs, visit any dog park in town (there are currently 5) and see for yourself. The City of Henderson is under a hiring freeze, has cut 28 million dollars from their budjet, who's going to maintain the monstrosity? The original SNPLMA Nomination Application said nothing about a dog park or bmx facility, so, the argument is the blatant waste of money (in a recession!) in addition to the fact that this dog park would be too close to residential zoning. BTW, another dog park has been approved for one mile from this exact location. How many dog parks does Henderson need, in a recession? The detention basin is always WET, 3 years after an unknown number of dollars were thrown at mitigating the "situation". When does my family get to enjoy our backyard without relentless barking and the odors of urine and feces 6 AM to midnight 7 days per week, 365 days per year? Wanna buy our home? Give me a call.
If you are annoyed at the smell of poo, contact the police and have someone around to cite people for not picking up after themselves. The smell urine is at best spurious. The sprinklers will wash it, and the smell won't carry like you think. Further the hours for the park can be adjusted so the barking won't happen at certain hour.
As for all the bunk over spending in a recession, this was probably already laid out some time ago, and the money has already been allocated. And sure I'll buy your home. You said that if the park comes in it will be worth zero, well I'll buy it for infinity times that price... $10. There.
Also the city says that it moved the park to 150 ft, not 30. In any case if you have a park, 40 dogs per day probably visit there already. Additionally, it's city land, not yours. If more people in the city want it, you're screwed.
Hi Parks Department Person. That's a laugh. Have the police come cite the person for not picking up? Sure, they'll be right over! Sprinklers? Hmmm...how much water will we be wasting in the name of doggie recreation? No need...come visit your pet project to see the amount of water already there, wear rain boots. How bout a doggie mud park? FUN FUN FUN. Better be sure you can afford the taxes here before you make your offer. Recession, remember?
ooo, water wasted on that... Very selective considering all the fountains in the valley. Not to mention our various golf courses. I little patch like that is literally a drop in a bucket.
And the offer still stands. I'll buy that house for 10 bucks. Serious.
Yes, good idea about having the police "around to cite people for not picking up". Great idea, redferret. Let's raise everyone's sales tax to pay for that.
Henderson has enough cops, and I'm sure they can spare a meter maid once a day to check on people. As it is, I hear the cops are pressing for that raise anyways. Not my idea. Besides chill out. If your property value tanks, I'll give you that ten bucks, and then my little Kirby can enjoy that dog park.
Read the entire SUN today http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/jan...
I'll take your ten bucks plus $440,990 for the rewards over-indulged Kirby will reap living right behind doggie wonderland.
I live in a subdivision that has dogs barking day and night. Yes, I've called animal control, but the noise continues. One reason is that many of the homes are now rentals, and the renters put their dogs out to bark for the day or evening while they are working. They could care less about the community. It's obvious that the lousy economy is helping this deterioration in quality of life in Henderson. So the addition of dog parks is questionable-Why are we supporting having more and more animals in town by adding parks where they can happily sniff, defecate, and pee to their owners delight? Maybe we should license dog owners to use a dog park-God knows Henderson loves more revenue and useless personnel. Then we could put an animal control officer in each dog park. "Whew, what's that smell, officer?"
Cindy,
In your expert zoning opinion, you said its a fact that the park is too close to residential zoning.
Would you care to elaborate on that? I've never heard of a zoning requirement for separating a public park from a residential use.
And as a "realtor" I am sure you have access to data regarding dog parks adjacent to residential uses and what that typically does to property values. If so, please share.
Just be happy it isn't a skateboard park they are building.
Strip clubs and adult book stores every 50 feet = yes.
Casinos instead of factories = yes.
Horrible schools = yes.
A dog park = no.
Vegas has jumped the shark.
It's not a skateboard park, it's a bmx park, same thing according to police we've spoken with. Dog excrement and barking will never add value to any property other than zoo property. Research shows that for any doggie facility to be successful, there should be sufficient buffer zones. Here, there are none. It's not about being against the public park, we moved next door to one. It's about noise, barking 6AM to midnight and odor pollution. What's so difficult to understand? A dog park in the middle of the desert, YES, 10, 20 dog parks, WHY?
Ok, that's a great one. Last I checked the public parks are usually open from sun up to sun down, not midnight. In any case, it's still a fact that you can get the hours of operation set so that it won't affect you. And it is still hogwash about the smell. People will pick up, the urine smell won't be pervasive, and you'll have a 150' buffer zone. See there you go.
Also as already noted, if you live by a park, enough dogs probably already visit it to equal the traffic from a dog park.
oh, and for your home to be worth zero (the offer still stands, $10) you'ld have to be next door to a wood pulp mill, a supermax prison, and a pig farm/slaughterhouse. Having a dog park near, marginal to no difference.
What research shows that?
Surely a study has to have been conducted stating that a dog park within a public park adjacent to residential property causes a downturn in property value. Or, as I'd assume, are you just making that assumption based on your own feelings?
With all due respect, the fact that you keep talking in superlatives ("the property value will be ZERO" "Research shows that for ANY doggie facilty to be successful" "They've RUINED my life for propsing this") makes your comments hard to believe.
Its like the boy who cried wolf.......
NIMBYism at its finest.
LaDiDa,
With all due respect, why do you care so much? What's in it for you?
redferret, correct. Many dogs visit the park daily, off leash, and their owners don't pick up after them (I'll be happy to mail you some evidence), only the poop and pee are spread throughout a larger area, i.e., the entire park. I've never thought to call the police to report the dog owners who don't pick up, I would think the police might just be busy doing more important things! We were only yesterday made aware that the proposed site has been moved further (and not by those fine folk at C of H, btw). 150 feet is not far enough, in my humble, taxpaying, dog loving, urine/feces odor and relentless barking hating opinion. As for real estate values, have you heard? Ours are still dropping like boulders. I honestly don't think doggie daycare will help.
Ms. Lake,
I am a citizen who is concerened with my community as a whole, not just what is directly in my back yard.....
You say that property values will go down and that no dog park can work adjacent to residential--I'm just wondering where the proof is.
In the end, I just don't believe that a dog park will indeed be more of a hinderance to your property value then a big ugly dirt lot is. I find that very hard to believe.
The big dirt lot is a swamp much of the time. It's very ugly, but beautiful compared to the proposed 2 1/4 acre aluminum caged poop/pee-catcher, which will be uglier, noisier, and smellier and confine all the deserving "vistors" to one area. Many owners do not pick up after their dogs, that's one of the attractive features of the dog park for them. No poop in THEIR BACK YARDS. Proof? From my research, there have been no off leash facilities built 30 feet from homes. I have seen complaints from as close as 200 feet, with buffer zones.
I live across the street from a school. People treat it as a dog park. Any given evening there will be 5-10 dogs out there. But you know what, they don't harm anything or anyone. The owners pick up after them (even with no provided baggies or trash cans), and there is never a smell. Mind you, this happens about 50 feet from my house. 1/3 of the distance they are proposing.
You know what I don't like though? All the jerk parents who park in my driveway, blocking my driveway, or glaring at me when I drive 2 inches in front of them to get in my driveway. But, again, I am a decent, humble person. I don't complain. I don't yell or cause a commotion at the PTA meetings. I just let it roll off my back because there are so many great things about life to appreciate that I don't have time to waste worrying about the small stuff.
What is with this attitude people have that the world owes them something? You own the property in the parcel number you purchased. If people begin using your ACTUAL backyard, or front yard, as a dog park, then I suppose you have reason to complain. Since it's on land that does not belong to you, let it go or move. Live and let live. Dang, it's not that hard to understand.
I have a solution to this problem that will make everyone happy. Your neighbors that obviously asked for a dog park can have it, you don't have to live near it, AND your property value will go up. You claim your property value is at ZERO. I believe we have an offer of $10. Do I here $20?
No neighbors that we can find ANYWHERE want a dog park so close to their homes, the places where they go after WORKING HARD ALL DAY, the places where they've put alot of their HARD-EARNED DOLLARS INTO, the places where the pay EXORBITANT TAXES FOR THE PRIVELEGE, the places where they might want to sleep later than 6 AM on a Saturday! C of H claims there are "many' people who want this dog park, only, where are they? Where do "they" live? Not here! There's yet another doggie disneyland approved for A MILE away, too far to ask the doggies and their owners to walk or drive? There are already FIVE other dog hangouts in Henderson. Sunset Park has TWO dog parks, 4 miles from Arroyo Grande. There's plenty of vacant land in the middle of the desert, why not place DOG WORLD there and offer free transportation? Sad how so many of you are missing a main point! Hundreds of millions of dollars of SNPLMA funds are going to projects like these. The spot where this is designated for is a drainage ditch that is constantly wet, there WILL be maintenance issues. People are losing jobs, schools are losing money, hiring freezes, foreclosures, recession, etc...and we need another DOG PARK? Maybe, just maybe that money should be reappropriated to where it's needed.
I'd rather have a doggie park than a kiddie park by my house any day.
Cindy, you say this: "No neighbors that we can find ANYWHERE want a dog park so close to their homes, the places where they go after WORKING HARD ALL DAY"
If they were to put "Dog World" in the middle of the desert and provide transportation there, you'd find a way to complain about the wasting of gas to take people and their dogs out there.
Don't spout all of this "concern" about the economy because that's not really your point, is it.
PS - It doesn't seem like you're working hard all day if you have enough time to blog all day.
Gosh, I wish my biggest concern in life was whether or not the city was putting a dog park in my neighborhood. If that was all I had to worry about, I would truly feel blessed.
@cindylake
Are you from California? You kind of sound like it. Shallow in your arguments and attitude. "Oh, my precious half million dollar home will be worth nothing, instead of next to nothing because I paid more than I should have, if there is a dog park near by."
We just got a dog a couple weeks ago and I have been to the Sunset Park dog run half a dozen times. Their is no barking sound like there is from dogs in my neighborhood who are bored and not being played with. I know for a fact, and will show you the bottom of my shoes, that the dog run is constantly cleaned up by the owners (I have seen a two or three instances of runny poop in the grass that my not have been easily noticed). The people that take their dogs there love their dogs and train/discipline them.
I just read your comments again and all I can do is shake my head and wish I were back in the Midwest. You seem to be a truly sad person with too much time on their hands, a mind with no grasp of commen sense, decency or neighborliness.
I'll raise the offer on your house to $100,000.
Good lord! For starters, this is a huge SPORTS complex which entertains (almost) nightly softball and baseball games. I have played in many leagues there. And man it gets crowded and noisy sometimes. The cling of aluminum bats, the yelling and screaming, the beer guzzling crews that hang out before and after games. All of this is certainly 10x more noise than would ever come from a dog park.
As a matter of fact, the area in which they are planning the dog park used to be *you guessed it* a couple of softball fields. So it's not like they are putting this dog park in a brand new area that has never been used before, they are simply re-purposing it.
I also have dogs that I take to the park, and quite frankly, the comment about not taking your dog to the park because you have a backyard is just so typically ignorant. Memo to Cindy: the dog needs EXERCISE...being fenced up in your small backyard for years on end doesn't cut it. And any responsible pet owner understands that dogs NEED INTERACTION with other dogs. Hence the creation of Dog Parks.
Simply ridiculous. Live next to a huge sports complex, and complain about a small dog park. Here is an idea, if you don't want to live next to a noisy park, perhaps you should not have bought your home next to a noisy park. Some people truly need professional help. "It's ruining my life", lol.
I think the dog park is a GREAT idea. What's wrong with some of these idiots?
I live about 100 feet from the dog fanciers park. I am sitting on my couch right now and I do not hear a thing, nor have I ever heard a single noise coming from there!Our neighborhood does not smell of pee or poop either.
It is open from sun up till 11pm, the lights or nosie have never been an issue. The we have was bought for 205,00! whoopy do. The value is less than that now I am sure, but it isn't lower because of the park. I fact we moved here because of the park. We do have a backyard and it is just nice to have it so close to the house.
I am sure that most of the people in that neighborhood would like the convience of the park and these are a few people who oppose it. I see many of my neighbors walking thier dogs nightly to the park.
It makes for a better community because people get to know one another and thier pets too. If anything it makes our neighborhood better than any other I have lived in in Las Vegas, it is more of a community. These people probably like thier solitude and are the type of people whoe can't be bothered by knowing thier neighbors!
I'm not a homeowner, so I cannot comment on the issues these people are discussing. I can understand their views but I am not fortunate enough to own a home. I am, however, a tax payer and feel I should have the right to take my dogs to dog parks. Although theirs would be too far away for me, I only wished that there was one in North Las Vegas that I could use. When I lived off of Charleston/Buffalo, there was a nice dog park near washington/buffalo that I took my dogs to. It was fun to get out, get a little exercise and also to socialize, not only for the dogs, but also myself.
These homeowners, while their complaints may or may not be valid, do sound like whiners and are over-dramatic in their comments. It sounds ridiculous some of the things they are saying. Some of us are not rich enough to go to fancy restaraunts, to the movies, gambling, drinking, golfing, bowling, etc. Some of us are broke, poor and cannot afford to have any fun on frivolous things that drains our wallets, so we need these types of parks where we can enjoy ourselves and to get out of the house for a couple of hours. While I can appreciate their concerns for their houses financial well-being, it does seem a bit cold-hearted and over the top.
Dog parks are great but they don't belong in residencal areas. I have a dog and a dog park in may back yard and I can tell you it is not a great asset to have.There are time when there are 20 dogs there and not a sound and then 2 or 3 and you can't stand the niose.It depends on the dogs. The bottom line dogs bark. It is not enjoyable to listen to barking dogs after a long at work or a long week. And it will affect the value of your home. With all the homes for sale I don't care how much you like dogs if you have a choice of buying a house most people will choose the one without the barking dogs in the back yard.