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twitterLetter to the editor:
No denying FDR’s New Deal saved us
Friday, Feb. 20, 2009 | 2:05 a.m.
People don’t know what they are talking about when they claim President Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s New Deal prolonged the Hoover Depression.
FDR was elected in 1932 and wasn’t able to take office until March 1933. He was met with the same Republican obstructionism we are witnessing today against President Barack Obama.
By 1937 FDR’s recovery package began to show dramatic improvement in our national economy, and that improvement increased greatly through 1939.
The unemployment rate FDR inherited from President Herbert Hoover was 25 percent, and in mid-1939 that percentage was cut in half. People had regained the dignity of having a job.
Then in 1941, following Pearl Harbor, the nation was put on a war footing.
We were ready. Our manufacturers were put into high gear and it was the greatest manufacturing expansion in our history.
Had it not been for FDR’s brilliant mind, we would have been floundering with an uneducated workforce, and that could have meant we might now be speaking Japanese and German.
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The majority of economist say that the New Deal did not help that much with the Great Depression.
Nearly a majority in a recent survey says that the New Deal prolonged the depression.
Some say that it was the opening of the trade and the boom of exports in the late 1930's and early 1940's that got out us out of the depression.
That export boom continue during the war with us exporting war material to Russia and England.
OK. I'll bite. Can you provide sources for your assertions or is this to be another in a long series of stupid comments laughable to anyone with reasonable reading comprehension?
1)What "...majority of economist..." (sic) are you referring to?
2) Isn't "...nearly a majority...", if indeed this survey you don't point to is a valid one, a minority?
3)"Some say..." are weasel words. Who is this some?
4) I wonder where the money came from for the export boom of goods overseas that you bloviate about?
Arguing that the New Deal did not bring the country out of the Depression is evidence that hindsight is not 20-20. You must accept some facts to have a reasonable discussion. Revising history with an imaginary "majority of economists" doesn't cut it.
Check wikipedia on the Depression and the debate on it. Interesting poll they cite there. Namely:
The majority of economists felt the new deal helped (like 66-34), and the vast majority of history professors say the New Deal helped (like 75-25).
Sunk.
Let understand what James J. Poupard is bragging about
In the early 20s unemployment was well below 5%
During the depression at the beginning of the 30s the unemployment rate was 25%
During the depression at the end of the 30s the unemployment rate was 15%
So after several years of massive government depression spending we had 15% unemployment and this was a success?
Amazing results you can believe in.
Would you have the government sit on its hands and the number balloon up to 35% like in Germany?
And yes keeping 10% more employed was good during those times.
Why don't you bring an argument next time.
Yes we can deny it, with good empirical evidence to back us up. Here is an article on the subject:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123353276749137485.html
These two economists found that the New Deal prolonged the Great Depression by 7 years.
If you want to conduct your own study simply look up the dates and lengths of each American recession and depression. Put the data in one column. In the other column write down what the government did following each depression and recession to restore the economy.
The results are astounding. Never had the government reached so far into the economy has during the Great Depression (Starting with Hoover) and we never went so far again. There was no depression or recession anywhere near as long. This alone suggests that the policies to remedy the situation may not have helped.
"In 1995, economist Robert Whaples of Wake Forest University published a survey of academic economists that asked them if they agreed with the statement, "Taken as a whole, government policies of the New Deal served to lengthen and deepen the Great Depression." Fifty-one percent disagreed, and 49 percent agreed. "
http://www.usnews.com/articles/business/...
Redferrent, I checked Wikipedia and found no mention of poll data. Can you provide a link to this "poll" that you mention?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12335327...
Red,
I'm guessing you are referring to the Whaples survey back in 1995? It was half of economic historians...not economists.
And Patrick what is your point. If they're studying history and economics, I think an economic historian is the way to go. Or do you not like them because they say something that doesn't agree with you?
FDR's answer: vast federal spending, tough new regulations on business and higher taxes -- like Herbert Hoover before him, only more so.
The Depression lasted until war orders from the Allies brought U.S. industry back to life. Before 1940, not once did unemployment fall below 14 percent. In May 1939, Treasury Secretary Henry Morgenthau testified:
"We are spending more money than we have ever spent before, and it does not work. ... I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. ... I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... and an enormous debt, to boot."
Politically, the New Deal was a smashing success, with FDR's landslides in 1932, 1934 and 1936 virtually wiping out the GOP.
Yet, economically, the New Deal was a bust, failing utterly to restore prosperity. Despite the indoctrination of generations of schoolchildren in New Deal propaganda, that is the hard truth.
Patrick and Red in that survey it says:
Survey question:
"Taken as a whole, government policies of the New Deal served to lengthen and deepen the Great Depression."
49% of the economist agreed with that statement.
And the majority disagreed with that statement.
The majority believe that the policies of the New Deal did NOT lengthen or deepen the Great Depression.
Red,
There is a likely difference. An economic historian may or may not be someone who actively studies economic science and compares phenomenon with one who reads historical accounts (note: most historical accounts give a poor critique of criticism on the New Deal). It all depends on how the study defined what an economic historian or economist or plain old historian was. Were they academics? Professionals? Bureaucrats? Armchair pundits? Etc.
In addition the fine language of the survey may not lend us to suggest that 49 percent of economic historians believed the New Deal benefited us but there may be some variation of belief in no effect to some benefits etc. For example, someone may say that the New Deal had no positive or ill effects on the economy as a whole (this person would assume the positive things would cancel out the bad).
The Wall Street Journal article above was written by two economists who believed the bad (regulation, high spending, high taxes, tariffs, wage and price controls) outweighed the good (which was social security and social safety nets in their opinion).
Federal spending moved to 15% of the total economic spending under FDR's NEW DEAL..Which was a huge increase but still nothing compared the 40% that emerged during WWII...I don't believe that the new deal prolonged things in fact if not for the new deals it is possible that the factories would have been closed before the war came along to right the ship... The concern is that the NEW DEAL did not fix the economy by itself, and I don't see a war effort in our near future.. The stimulus package will take federal spending to 25% of all economic spending but not to that 40% number..I hope it is enough...
LOL....you hear yourself...."The majority believe that the policies of the New Deal did NOT lengthen or deepen the Great Depression"
That is like saying 49% of beauty experts believe your wife is butt ugly. 51% of beauty experts do not believe your wife is butt ugly.
LOL, "beauty expert?" Stupid and weak.
The majority believe the New Deal did not lengthen or deepen the Great Depression.
Do not be so hard on yourself.
Yes, 49% of economists in the survey said that the New Deal damaged the US economy.
ksand99 thinks that is a ringing endorsement by economist on FDR's New Deal programs.
You should run a TV ad, "Only 49% of Economists believe the New Deal sucked!!!!! Come and buy some of that New Deal."
I bet you will not find any survey of economists where a majority of them believe that the New Deal got out of us the Great Depression.
Even your hero, Krugman, does not say that.
"Yes, 49% of economists in the survey said that the New Deal damaged the US economy."
Yes, the majority of academic economists in the survey said that the New Deal did not lengthen or deepen the Great Depression.
"ksand99 thinks that is a ringing endorsement by economist on FDR's New Deal programs."
Now we're back to the pathetic putting words into peoples' mouths. So weak.
"I bet you will not find any survey of economists where a majority of them believe that the New Deal got out of us the Great Depression."
Another sad straw man argument by jfNance32.
First he had tea leaves, now he has "beauty experts." What's next? LOL!
This is great!!!!!!!
I just love it!!!!!!
49% of economists in a survey said that the New Deal damaged the US economy and not help it.
Even the socialist Krugman says that the New Deal did not get us out of the Great Depression.
It was not FDR's "New Deal" that offered relief then a "Boom" to our economy, but rather WW2. It was the massive increase in spending for the war effort that effected the economy!
Check The History!
Whether Republican or Decorate - We all are on this boat and better start doing something before that waters break above the deck.
"49% of economists in a survey said that the New Deal damaged the US economy and not help it."
That is correct, a majority disagreed with your economists and said that the New Deal did not lengthen or deepen the Great Depression. Your position is in the minority.
"Even the socialist Krugman says that the New Deal did not get us out of the Great Depression."
That is correct, you have repeated a straw man argument. That's a logical fallacy. One day, maybe you'll be able to understand that.
It is clear that day will not be today.
Yeah ksand, I don't know anyone who says the New Deal got us completely out of the Depression. Almost everyone acknowledges that it was WWII. What the New Deal did was stop the bleeding and stabilize the country.
This was opposed to free fall, more banks failing, more farms failing, and more people being out of work.
Red, you would be disagreeing with 49% of economists who say that New Deal hurt not help economy.
51% did not say that the New Deal helped the economy. They just did not agree that the New Deal hurt it.
JfNance32, you are agreeing with the minority of economists in the survey. The minority thought the New Deal lengthened or deepened the Great Depression.
The majority did not agree with them. The majority did not agree that it hurt the economy.
Too bad a minority agrees with you. Kinda like climate change, huh? And the House of Representatives. And the Senate. Geez, some might say your positions are marginalized and insignificant. Your party couldn't even stand up to Obama on the stimulus.
Sure has been a ton of losing on your side lately.
Yes, 49% of economist agree that New Deal was harmful to the economy.
Wow.......49% thought the New Deal sucked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi ksand99,
Doesn't it feel like you are beating your head against a very thick wall here? jfnance32 (Jim Nance) is invincibly ignorant.