The Economy:
Recession in Nevada: Expect it to hang on a while
Nevada Appeal file
Guy Rocha, the former Nevada archivist and historian, says Nevada’s current economic malaise will turn out to be worse than that suffered in the Great Depression.
Saturday, Dec. 12, 2009 | 2 a.m.
Sun Archives
- Nevada construction employment takes dive in recession (11-23-2009)
- Boyd chief: Recession forcing Vegas back to roots (11-19-2009)
- Lessons of Depression up for fresh discussion (2-5-2009)
- Obama adviser calls stimulus action critical (2-4-2009)
- UNLV researchers: Recession gets worse in Las Vegas (2-3-2009)
- Road from recession to depression is long, winding and far off (11-2-2008)
The current recession will wind up eclipsing the Depression of 80 years ago in Nevada, the state’s longtime former archivist and preeminent historian predicts.
“I believe emphatically that before the Great Recession runs its course, it will be worse than the Great Depression in Nevada,” Guy Rocha says.
Nevada fell into the Great Depression late and got out early, Rocha notes. The state didn’t get hit until 1931, two years after the stock market crash of 1929. And, helped by federal spending and legalized gambling as well as quick marriages and divorces, Nevada’s government was enjoying budget surpluses by 1935. By 1939 Nevada was well out of the Depression, Rocha says. The rest of the country didn’t get back on its feet until after the U.S.’ entry into World War II in December 1941.
Nevada started sliding early into what turned into the cratered economy of today, however, and is expected to be one of the last states to recover. The bubble of the state’s once booming housing market burst in 2007, and most analysts say Nevada will lag the rest of the nation in recovery because of its dependent on discretionary spending. The Silver State will not begin to recover until 2011, they say.
The bright side is that 21st century Nevada has more of a safety net, Rocha says. The effects of the recession do not “appear to be as stark. People were out selling pencils and apples on the street corner. You had Okies and Arkies.
“Today, we have unemployment insurance. We’re printing money. We’re finding ways to keep people at least sustaining. Those days, when people were down and out, they were down and out.”
Nationally, the recession is a far from the Great Depression. It’s estimated that unemployment then was 25 percent, although the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics did not track unemployment numbers until 1948, and there are no state-by-state breakdowns of unemployment numbers, according to an economist at the federal agency.
Rocha looked at Nevada governors’ State of the State speeches in his effort to assess Nevada’s situation then and now. He noted that in 1931, Gov. Fred Balzar’s message to the Legislature was upbeat.
“The expenditures proposed in connection with the Boulder Canyon Project (Hoover Dam) in Clark County, running into many millions of dollars during the ensuing decade, as well as those made at the Naval Ammunition Depot in Mineral County, are factors tending to lessen financial distress among our people, and these disbursements added to those authorized by Congress for additional highway construction give promise that Nevadans can face the future in a most optimistic frame of mind.”
Indeed, the New Deal helped pave many of Las Vegas’ roads and install its sewer system, according to Eugene Moehring, a UNLV history professor who has studied Depression-era Las Vegas. Nevada led the nation in per capita spending under the New Deal, and the Hoover Dam project employed up to 5,000 workers at a time, he notes.
Today, however, Nevada ranks among states with the lowest per capita spending.
Shortly after Balzar’s speech, the Legislature legalized gambling and shortened the residency requirement to get a divorce, moves designed to attract tourists. Later that year and into 1932, however, economic trouble hit the state’s ranching, farming and mining industries. Power broker George Wingfield saw his banks collapse and a bank holiday was declared from Nov. 1 to December 1932, Rocha wrote. In 1933 the Wingfield banks went into receivership and “livestock men and farmers were forced into bankruptcy.”
Buoyed by the new lax laws on social norms, the state saw an increase in business. By 1936 the state had a budget surplus. Gov. Richard Kirman and business leaders launched the “One Sound State” campaign, in which Nevada tried to attract millionaires by boasting “no income tax, no inheritance tax, no sales tax, no tax on intangibles, but with a balanced budget and a surplus.”
By 1937 the state surplus was so large that the property tax rate was cut by 20 percent.
But the tricks the state used to pull itself out of the Great Depression are no longer innovative.
Nevada has lost its monopoly on legalized gambling. Casinos can be found across the nation. But there is also a more fundamental difference in Nevada’s economy today. It was built largely on growth. It ratcheted way up during the boom times — and then fell far, fast and hard.
“We will not see a sustained recovery in Nevada until we have at least six months of steady job growth and rising home prices,” economist John Restrepo says. “At this point, and considering how cloudy forward visibility is today, the data and our research indicate that the earliest that this is likely to occur is sometime in 2011.”
Restrepo is a member of Nevada’s Economic Forum, which projects tax revenue for the state.
Michael Green, a historian at the College of Southern Nevada, says this recession may seem worse than the Great Depression because Nevada had so much more to lose.
We’ve had farther to fall than our Nevada ancestors. They lived in the least populated state in the country. “The fall appears steeper because we were so far above where we’d ever been before,” he says.
When the Great Depression struck Southern Nevada, former Clark County Commissioner Ralph Denton was a child living in Caliente, 151 miles north of Las Vegas. Denton’s father closed his saloon and his mother, who lost her job because of a crackdown on married female teachers (because, the argument went, married heads of households should have the jobs) took in boarders.
In Caliente, those with railroad jobs were OK, but “everyone who wasn’t working for a railroad was scratching a poor man’s ass,” Denton, 84, recalls.
Denton’s father took up mining and opened a mill. One day, in 1938, as they were waiting on a rock for 10 loads of gunpowder to explode to clear a mine, Ralph Denton turned to his father.
“For God’s sake, why didn’t you keep going west to California?” the teenager said.
“Anyone can make it in California,” the senior Denton said. “It takes a man to make it in the desert. It takes a man to make it in Nevada. It takes a man, to make it in this.”
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vegas is not self sustaining and requires money from elsewhere to survive. it has to wean itself off construction and gambling and invest in other avenues of industry. the bureaucracy in nevada is too slow to react to remedy any solutions and in most cases creates a hindrance toward positive change. 2014, not 2011, is when vegas may see some relief from the bush recession.
totally agree. I would have thought the last recession, they would have started with their plan "B"...they dont learn.
With all due respect to Mr. Denton, those "Men who made it" would have died without their women who stood by their sides, holding them up and raising their kids.
"Historian"; a person who looks backwards and figures out what already happened. He has no credentials for predicting the future other then his Ouija board. Put his economic forecast in the same box with his global warming forecast and bury it in Denton's mine.
JK Galbraith once said that the only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable. Nevertheless, I agree that LV will be "in the weeds" for a good while; we overbuilt terribly and the shakeout will be long and painful.
it going to tough next few years our government didn't have a plan b and will never have plan b. our government start from local to government up north. instead of Goodman spending his time trying to development downtown. he should spend his time to diversify this econmy b 4 this town turn into dust bowl. make prositution legal tax it. make pot legal and tax it. what the different between pot and alcohol no different one is legal drink in a bar and you can tax it drive home and kill some1. hell u can to the the same thing with pot.
Why You can't compare 29 to 09. Baby boomers retired and about to retire with pensions and 401k's, they have money and there bored. They have casinos in there states, but that just hones there skills. Vegas has to realies that these people have bad backs and knees, but don't mind sitting and pressing buttons. The strip also should lower the show ticket prices big time (big draw). Feeling safe on the strip and Downtown is a paramount. As far as the housing, the retirees with achy bones are looking for dry heat and fun, Phoenix is too hot and no fun. Water and air quality is important if Vegas is going to be the new retirement destination (Big Business) for the future...
Isn't it a great thing we have Harry Reid in Washington looking out for us little people?
"Buoyed by the new lax laws on social norms, the state saw an increase in business."
ahha!
And the Nevadans we got now don't have the vision to see what we need.
LAX laws on social norms!!!
Regulate the pot. They'll come from afar. Worked last time.
Or we could just let Cali or Colorado go for it and suck some more hind tit.
Nut up Nevada!
If it worked once to boost the economy in time of depression, it will work again.
Legalize prostitution and stop harassing strip clubs and in-casino night clubs. Let people do what they want to do and they will flock here as tourists. Legalize Pot too. Its no worse than booze, and thats legal...
Make this a mecca for gay people to get married and be accepted. There is a huge market out there.
Tourists are great. They come, leave their money and go home !! What else could you ask for ?
This IS the time to stop getting caught up on silly social controls while we sit in the dark in our cold (or hot) tents !!!
Which is worse really, we all not having money OR letting tourists come here to have the fun they cant have at home ( and then they GO home). This can happen FAST if we just get rid of some archaic laws.
time-to-think...
My plans haven't changed even with this recession(if you can call it that)as a Babyboomer retired almost a year ago moving to Vegas is still on the board.When I can dump my house here I'll be there.I don't think Boomers plans haven't changed.With housing prices back east holding fairly well doesn't stop those shopping for bargain basement prices.Like you said, I'm heading there for the warm weather,shorter snow-less winters and a constant temperatures unlike the enormous temperature swings we have here in a 24 hour period. So when the August weather comes to Las Vegas and you're frying eggs on the concrete I'll be elsewhere for the month.I have no doubt Vegas will return, and yes it will take a few more years.I'm just hoping Nevada has learned something from this time.If they haven't and enacted plans they will not survive it the next time.
Because of the internet and native american casinos you dont have to drive or fly to Vegas anymore to gamble. the under 30 crowd just comes here to party, legalizing prostitution and pot would make Las Vegas a destination again!
Misuse of there, they're and their is not a spelling issue - it is a basic literacy issue. I really can't take comments too seriously when I see that happen.
I'll actually be teaching the skill to my second graders next week if anyone would like to sit in.
Only the liberal Sun would do an article reference the economy citing a historian instead of an economist. Are you kidding me? On another note, my landscaper has advised me that that the impurities in Las Vegas drinking water can lead to coronary heart disease. He has been researching the subject thoroughly.
If Vegas casinos would go back to the formula of cheap meals and cheap hotel rooms they would have so many tourists they wouldn't know where to put them all. Bring back $.99 breakfasts, $5.00 steak dinners, and $50 rooms and make all back in gambling. That's one of the ways that Vegas worked it's way out of economy woes, and can help again. My Daddy always told me you have to spend money to make money. Vegas has gotten to spoiled, they charge for everything.
Three years before the November 1, 1932 banking crisis, Senator Key Pittman was working for Nevada mining and protecting the import of silver from other parts of the world. The silver tariff established by his legislation brought Nevada mines out of the doldrums and moved the state economy to significant activity.
The world price of gold established at $29 a Troy ounce guaranteed that every Nevada mine with silver or gold on the claim was assured of a long-term operation.
With gold and silver prices at high levels that idea of Nevada Assemblyman Don Gustavson's for the State to mint collectable gold and silver medallions would help Nevada mines and the State treasury.
Guy Rocha for Governor!!
Hooray JPC! It's a disgrace to see some of these illiterate misuses of homonyms, and it's indicative of a society that doesn't read anymore. We spend too much time in front of a TV or computer monitor or PDA device and not nearly enough time reading a book or two!
Of course this is the change the morons voted for. And an empty suit shall lead them.
jpc; it also explains why bush was elected TWICE!
The first thing we need to do is remove our money from the big banks (BoA, JPMorgan, Citi, Wells, et al) and place in your LOCAL banks with FDIC coverage.
This will get the money from the big banks who are not lending to local banks who will IF THEY HAVE THE MONEY.
Do it first thing Monday morning and tell everyone you know to do the same.
It won't hurt you and can only help the economy. It's time for the people to take control of this country.
DO IT NOW!
"We will not see a sustained recovery in Nevada until we have at least six months of steady job growth and rising home prices," economist John Restrepo says.
-
I love helpful foresight like this. We won't have a recovery until there's a recovery. Thanks, so insightful!
WahooRich : I'm with ya all the way on the old Vegas formula, these idiot casino operators don't understand the concept of any areas on the property not clearing a profit. The casino supports everything else! cheapen the rooms, give away the food, and loosen up the slots, and get the free drinks moving faster than a three reel slot machine, and so many tourists would flock back, they would not be able to count their money fast enough! But alas these corporate idiots will never understand this concept...
you can't send a message to the "evil rich people" that more of their money is going to be taken away from them to support people that don't want to work.
why WOULD a company move here and create jobs for the very people that voted to take more of their money away.
and please...all you old farts with the "old vegas days"...PLEASE shut up. those days are over. the resorts are too leveraged with debt for them to dedicate the square footage for non-revenue generators. if a burger is now $8.00 at the coffee shop, and suddenly it's reduced to $2.00...the REAL effect that would have on how much someone spends on blackjack is so minimal.
that's not going to turn a $20.00 per bet player into a $100.00 per bet player.
and the margin is probably WAY higher on the burger.
the cheap food prices of yesterday were based more on competition to get people in the door than a business model. now you only have 4 or 5 companies running 95% of the stuff on the strip...there is no real need to compete anymore.
"Today, we have unemployment insurance. We're printing money."
As long as our government keeps printing the trillions of dollars we need to fund our wars and help our economy--in that order, apparently, we will be just fine. LMAO
So, Blake, is your landscaper a credentialed and qualified hydrologist or chemist who can make such statements? Have you checked with the water agencies and the EPA-certified analytical laboratories who conduct the water analyses to back up his claim? Does your landscaper understand what the background constituents of the soils of this region are, and how they relate to what levels human beings can consume safely? Has your landscaper conducted a risk assessment to further back up his statement?
The Environmental Working Group (EWG) today released the results of a three-year investigation of municipal water supplies across the U.S.
The research and advocacy group looked at water quality tests performed by water utilities since 2004 and created an extensive database that contains info on the contaminants found in 48,000 communities in 45 states.
EWG also rated 100 big city (population over 250,000) water utilities. Below are the top and bottom results.
Cities with the best water:
Arlington, TX
Providence, RI
Fort Worth, TX
Charleston, SC
Boston, MA
Honolulu, HI
Austin, TX
Fairfax County, VA
St. Louis, MO
Minneapolis, MN
Cities with the worst water:
Pensacola, FL
Riverside, CA
Las Vegas, NV
Riverside County, CA
Reno, NV
Houston, TX
Omaha, NE
North Las Vegas, NV
San Diego, CA
Jacksonville, FL
In the immortal words of Jack Nicholson as the Joker in Batman...
"This town needs an enema!"
Start at city hall. Flush 'em out. Wimsy of building a new city hall on bonds that don't mature for however many years. Isn't that what caused this crisis in the beginning? Leverage and Overleverage.
stevem...
HELLLLLLO!
You would move a business here because Nevader has LOW TAXES. And a VERY FAVORABLE rating for small business. Hell, some BIG businesses like MINING & GAMBLING rob the populous blind and no politician in this state bats an eye nor has the stones to stand and correct it.
Hey blake and rollingpassion;
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
I'm scared to say a word, but I think I should support any activity who is creating new working places. Please my friend, I would like to hear your opinion, before I decide. Are you going to say a heavy word ?
stevem :
Obviously from your description on your position against us "old farts" and the old Vegas formula, you don't understand how that formula was successful. It's not a matter of making people spend more in the casino because they saved a few bucks in the coffee shop, it's a formula which is in place to draw large numbers of tourists to Vegas. The big money is made from big numbers of visitors. get it now?
oh, i understand EXACTLY how the old vegas worked. each resort was individually owned, so it had to literally compete against the guy across the street and next door.
to get people to come in they had really low food prices as a loss leader to get them in to gamble.
now, the same company owns the guy next door, the guy across the street, and 4 other places on the strip. there is no need to compete to get people in the door, so the food prices are not going down. so drop it.
don't want to pay $8.00 for a corona at mandalay bay? fine, go over to luxor...it's $8.00 there as well.
Stevem is right on. The greed in Vegas exceeded the greed on Wall Street. Harrahs and MGM ruined Vegas and the solution to falling demand was to raise margin which led to more falling demand which led to even greater margin. I can get better odds now outside of vegas and cheaper beers to go with it. People outside of Vegas paid taxes in Vegas but now they get very little in return and seek alternatives. It's really not all that complicated but we live in a society where people making a lot of money risk nothing of their own to do foolish things. Worse yet, it's spreading across the country....
Absoulutely NO
High tech manufacturing or industrial businesses would even TOUCH Nevada because of its reputation for being:
#1st in Meth Addiction
#2nd in Identity Theft
#3rd in Education nationwide from the Bottom of the list.
Forget about these industries.
We are competing with Vietnam (Intel computer chips), Japan (Cars), China (Clothing), India (Engineering), and EVERY other state in the USA that beats us in numbers 1,2 and 3 above.
And throw in the unbelieveably poor healthcare and corrupt political scene in Nevada to boot.
Word's out, folks.
It's over for Nevada. For a very very long time.
Soon the Fed will stop issuing "computer-keystroke" money, the rest of the foreclosures will hit, the banks will be required to account for their off-the-books CDO losses (collateralized debt obligations - mortgage related) starting in January, and Wynn, Adelson, and Kerkorian are opening mega-casino resorts in Macau to siphon off the Chinese gamblers who used to come here and spend big.
The handwriting was on the wall years ago.
'Cept there was too much addiction and pollution going on to pay attention to the 'writin'.
Now, unfortunately, we're gonna hafta pay. And it ain't over yet...
Nevadan's, don't worry about anything. Harry Greid is our senator and he will take care of everything and all of us. Thank you so much Senator Greid you have done so much for Nevada.
Having been quoted in the story above, I am especially interested to see the comments above. I wondered if those who have decided to blame Harry Reid for all of Nevada's problems would mind telling me, because I am curious: who did you vote for in the 2006 election for governor, Gibbons or Titus?
2007,
Assemblyman Joe Hardy concokts Bill to transfer 9,000 acres Nevada CRC land into Clark County District A, public lands, APPROVED; Ft. Mohave tax fund Transfered into District A, Clark County tax fund, APPROVED!
Speaker Woodbury: APPROVED!
Coalition for the Future American Worker
http://www.americanworker.org/
stevem :
Your still missing the point ! Even if MGM and Harrahs owns the entire strip, they are still financially hurting in this recession, and as the result of their own monopolized greed. So the point is THEY should be reviving the old formula to get tourists back into their properties and Vegas in general, ESPECIALLY in this recession ravaged market. Unfortunately they are of the corporate mindset, and probably would go into bankruptcy before they ever try anything creative to help themselves and our city...
I agree with stevem, there is no longer an option to 'reverse the formula' and return to the 'way it used to be'. Nice thought, wish it was possible, but it's not. The way of old was based on vegas hotels that were operated at a much reduced cost compared to the current mega casinos - thus it was once possible to offer cheap comps/meals/drinks. Now when mega resorts offer these same cheap options, they are losing money because the overhead is way too high. They are all offering cheap rooms at the moment because they have to as an act of desperation in a dead economy, not because it is a sustainable business model. Vegas went 'all in' with the concept of building mega resorts and thinking there was endless whales/big spenders to support the concept. Ooops! Supply and demand will eventually whittle the number of casinos/hotels down to a sustainable level. Vegas will never die, there is no replacement for vegas. Regional casinos are not a large threat, they will always be in the little leagues and vegas will always stand alone as the 'big show'. As another poster mentioned, watch the retirees flood into vegas in the coming years......the boomers will want the stimulation/activities and other quality of life issues associated with living in a warm climate.
canuckster :
" The boomers will want the stimulation/activities and other quality of life issues associated with living in a warm climate."
Spoken like a true Canadian....
Finally, someone had the courage to use the "D" word - Depression! Thankyou! I've been convinced by all the indicators I've been seeing that we are in for a tough 5 years (if not longer)! The up-side, is maybe, just maybe, we will come to our senses and make a fundamental paradigm shift in our thinking about Nevada!
Maybe, just maybe, we'll get serious about "The Carson City Clown Circus" and start having annual sessions with sufficient staff so our law makers can do more than just socialize, play politics and talk, talk and talk - rarely getting anything substantial actually done!
Maybe, just maybe, we'll get serious about "The Governor / King" of Nevada, TOO! Way too much power has been given to the Governor of the State of Nevada - and in our case the "King" not only "has no clothes" he's a typical village idiot! None of us in Nevada can afford to have such an incompetent at the helm of our ship of state!
Nevada needs to move into the 21st Century - and that means change, Change, CHANGE!
I heard this from a reputable source a long time ago about nevada
First,Nowhere in the country is there more of a distinct class line(rich or poor).
Second,Nowhere in the country do you have more materialistic people located within 20 mile radius(he said look around,there are more bmw,mercedes,hummers parked in apartment buildings proving that there is just a bunch of posers caught up in the "vegas lifestyle".
I dont agree or disagree,but IF his statement is true,then i can understand the negative statistics that las vegas leads the nation in,and will continue on this path.
this city is so condusive to failure,due to 1 industry pony.
Diversify vegas,and you will improve quality of life,hell maybe even put a movie theatre in the suburbs,that is not in a Fing casino
oops a ed hardy t-shirt wearing louis vuitton handbag holding lady just passed me in a H3 pulling into wal mart on buffalo
Wannabees!Posers! oh well you can live with them,or without them.
I choose without! oops again my house is only appraised at 209,000 and i paid 349,900 damm now i have to stay awhile longer
peace out
" to free a nation from error is to enlighten the individual and only to the degree that the individual will be RECEPTIVE of truth can a nation be free from that vanity which ends with national ruin" --homer lea folks, we're in deep s**t!
What do you suppose the odds-makers are saying about the survival of Nevada? More of a what if, than a darn sure, huh?
A public tar-and-feather job of some multi-headed policians would likely engender some strong common bonds among us ordinary citizens who kinda expected some humanity, decency and collaboration on our behalf but didn't really get squat.
I ride the train with Jonathan Abbinet. Out the monkey man on the cell phone; restore competence to Carson City. Deal with our issues, not half time or less. Let's drop this absentee well-wisher mentality of state government's intermittent participation; on to an engaged and responsive coordinator of political will. FTE
That's what America gets for being so stupid as to vote in a second Bush after what happened under his father! LOL
amazing how often i see people getting their/they're and your/you're wrong when trying to show how intelligent they are.
The only way Vegas is going to get out of this recession is by supporting clean-energy infrastructure that will benefit Las Vegas and attract visitors- LIKE THE MAGLEV TRAIN!!
A project like Maglev will jumpstart our economy in the place we need it the most- the construction industry (currently above 30% unemployment I heard?), it will attract visitors (which will jumpstart tourism and gaming). Nevada's top industries are gaming, tourism and construction- how else can we help ourselves???