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StumbleDemocrats ready to push forward on health care
Lawmakers also plan to work through Christmas holiday, if necessary
Wednesday, Dec. 2, 2009 | 11:05 a.m.
WASHINGTON — The Senate is known for its sluggish pace, but even three days without a vote on the many health care amendments stacking up is too much for Democrats who emerged this afternoon from a closed door meeting ready to launch a procedural assault to press forward on health reform.
Democrats also agreed to work through the Christmas holiday, including Christmas Day, if needed to pass health care reform over Republican objections.
“If we have to be here Christmas, we’ll be here Christmas,” Sen. Tom Harkin, the Iowa Democrat who is chairman of the health committee, said after the noontime meeting.
Democrats are growing increasingly frustrated as they have been unable to secure an agreement from Republicans to begin voting on amendments to the bill introduced this week.
Two initial amendments, one from Democrats and another from Republicans, have been pending since debate opened on the health care legislation Monday.
On Tuesday night, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid sought agreement to vote on those amendments, and two others, but the Republican leadership objected. Republicans say they need more time to prepare their amendments and suggest Reid knew as much when he called for the vote. Republicans insist on a robust debate.
Democrats are not amused. Facing down dozens, if not hundreds, of potential amendments, the delays on voting on each one could thwart plans to complete President Barack Obama’s top domestic policy priority by year’s end. Democrats say they, too, want a robust debate with many amendments, but at some point votes on those amendments must be taken.
“I’ve been around long enough to know when there’s legitimate interest in forming some consensus,” said Sen. Chris Dodd, the Connecticut Democrat who was instrumental in guiding the first bill through committee. “This is rope-a-dope.”
Democrats may begin tabling Republican amendments, which would escalate the partisanship that has plagued so much of the health care debate. Since a motion to table needs just 51 votes to pass, Democrats, who control 60 votes in the chamber, would likely have a better chance at killing Republican amendments than Republicans would have at tabling Democratic ones.
Even with the messy start of the debate this week, Democrats remained optimistic that they would finish the bill by year’s end.
Behind closed doors, one senator at the meeting suggested that since troops fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan are working on Christmas Day, the Senate could do the same to pass health care reform.
The suggested Christmas Day work session was met with widespread support, senators said.
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A great video on the right way to fix health care in America (about 8 minutes, produced by Reason.tv) http://reason.tv/video/show/how-to-fix-h...
Hmmmmm...if the Senate is forced to spend their Christmas break in Washington, working on the health care reform bill, then that particular situation will make my Christmas a very happy one......
In other words, those highly paid senators will finally be earning their pay! It's time for health care reform. It's time to do the job! It's time for Congress to do what is best for the country as a whole, and not what's best for them....
Our government is in crisis. We have no leadership currently just a bunch of opportunist trying to force their Socialist experiment down our throats. The Democrats' arrogance in this mess is disgusting! This is why NO party should ever have too much power over the other. No compromising, no agreements, no meeting of the minds to serve all of us, just a bunch of hooligans who think they don't have to answer to nobody. President Obama is responsible for this country being so screwed up right now. Our country is extremely divided and we have no leadership or direction, just ill feelings and mistrust.
@DessertSun -
Just be thankful they've not managed to shove socialist "government-run" military defense, police & fire protection, food & drug safety etc services down our throats.
BoobyG: You're simplistically confusing coconuts with oranges. I'll gladly pay taxes to support the services you list. I will not, however, be cooerced into paying for health care for taggers, saggers, illegal aliens, drug addicts, smokers, alcoholics, the obese and indolent, etc.
And we are supposed to be impressed that Congress is working on Christmas Day so they can ram this socialized health care monstrosity down our throats. I would feel a whole lot better if Congress took a year long vacation and leave us the hell alone.
@mikegino-
Weak.
And, I'm no fan of this legislation. See http://bgladd.blogspot.com
Comprehensive examination of this issues.
BobbyG...the government can not run anything efficiently, proven over and over. This is a disaster in the making. This administration has divided this country so much. People are hurting, jobs are scarce and this administration is not addressing the issues they should be focused on. Their focus is to hurry up and cram their fanatical Socialist projects down our throats before they are throw out of office. Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Berkley and Titus are part of this uncooperative spirit diving, not uniting us in this time of crisis and we are in a crisis state. They're mot even representing us anymore, it's all about them.
@DessertSun -
"the government can not run anything efficiently, proven over and over. "
Right.
http://www.pbs.org/weta/carrier/
BTW, before y'all start in with the ever-predictable "confusing coconuts with oranges" schtick over the PBS citation, I am not the slightest bit confused about the issues, nor do I have any need to hide behind anonymous screen names.
Not that I claim to have all the answers, by any means, but I tend to do detailed research and analysis in lieu of hurling bumper sticker / protest rally mentality potshots.
Bobby,
War is a single minded pursuit. Its got one objective - destroy the enemy. Of course government can handle that. War is one of the few things government is good at doing. But managing a war, with one goal, is totally different than trying to manage the lives and well beings of 300 million individuals.
Bobby: nice blog. Ok, I understand that you study the issues. Frankly, I'm not certain large aircraft carriers will survive a modern war. They remind me of HMS Victory. My skepticism about any pricey new programs coming out of the current Congress is based on 20 years of commissioned service in the Marine Corps and a stint in the Justice Department. We have the most wasteful government in the history of the planet and it is getting worse. I don't think our new bankers/creditors in Beijing are willing to underwrite the proposed health care overhaul which simply redistributes income to the most unproductive amongst us.
@Patrick -
"The discoveries of healing science must be the inheritance of all. That is clear. Disease must be attacked, whether it occurs in the poorest or the richest man or woman simply on the ground that it is the enemy; and it must be attacked just in the same way as the fire brigade will give its full assistance to the humblest cottage as readily as to the most important mansion. Our policy is to create a national health service in order to ensure that everybody in the country, irrespective of means, age, sex, or occupation, shall have equal opportunities to benefit from the best and most up-to-date medical and allied services available."
- Prime Minister Winston Churchill, March 1944, arguing for the establishment of a British National Health Service.
WHY should we expect anything less than single-minded devotion to excellence in health care? The military rules/manages not by brute coercive force but by a relentlessly inculcated instillment of shared mission.
@mikegino -
I salute you for your service to the nation. And, I share your concerns about our bought-off government (as should be evident in my posts). But to those who think an unregulated private sector is the answer to health policy, I simply cite two words: "Wall Street."
The Sun blindly backs this Senator and his views. Then they wonder why their staff is being laid off and the value of their paper dwindles to nothing. Time is ticking and soon Las Vegas will be a one paper town and harry Reid can move back to Searchlight.
Wall Street may not be perfect, but it is more perfect than a meddling Congress. More is lost through regulation, taxation and government encroachment in the private sector than through any misdeeds perpetrated by Wall Street. We can thank the private sector for our high standard of living and not Congress which only succeeds in eroding our freedom and liberty.
Bobby,
Because single minded devotions to anything get you no where. The world is complex, needs and wants are many and diverse. Government cannot efficiently satisfy them all, let alone plan for the future and innovate solutions to new problems.
The better life gets, the more innovation that takes place, the more we advance science, the more people like you demand it as your right. Each time you demand something becomes your right you reduce its marketable value, you reduce the ability of the market to innovate new solutions or to provide that product to you with the highest quality at the best price. Society ends up worse off.
Society is complex. War is simple. Government cannot manage society in the same way in manages war.
Winston Churchill, btw, was no real liberal (in the classic sense) he was advocating old age pensions early in the 20th century along with all sorts of socialists and nationalists.
Bobby,
1) Watch this: http://reason.tv/video/show/how-to-fix-h...
2) Wall Street is already highly regulated, maybe you haven't eard of the dozens of federal regulatory agencies like the SEC, FDIC, CFTC, CCC, FTC and more? Maybe you didn't know that we have more than 90,000 pages of federal regulations each year?
3) Wall Street followed incentives created by government, including policies of coercion designed by the government to force firms to make risky loans and the easy money created by the Krugman pushed housing bubble to get us out of the 911 slump
Government created all the necessary ingredients to create our economic mess. Then to top it off it wasted billions of dollars by investing in programs that return a lower rate than real meaningful private sector investments (had the taxpayers spent the money). In other words, spending $2 to get $1 back is a dumb policy).
If you think government managed health care is the answer I have to wonder why you think government monopolies are good.
Monopolies do not face competition and therefore have little incentive to provide you with a high quality service at a reasonable price. Government monopolies can earn money by force, meaning they have virtually no incentive to provide you with a high quality service at a reasonable price. Government monopolies are far worse than private sector monopolies -- even if Mother Teresa ran the monopoly.
Bobby,
1) Watch this: http://reason.tv/video/show/how-to-fix-h...
2) Wall Street is already highly regulated, maybe you haven't eard of the dozens of federal regulatory agencies like the SEC, FDIC, CFTC, CCC, FTC and more? Maybe you didn't know that we have more than 90,000 pages of federal regulations each year?
3) Wall Street followed incentives created by government, including policies of coercion designed by the government to force firms to make risky loans and the easy money created by the Krugman pushed housing bubble to get us out of the 911 slump
Government created all the necessary ingredients to create our economic mess. Then to top it off it wasted billions of dollars by investing in programs that return a lower rate than real meaningful private sector investments (had the taxpayers spent the money). In other words, spending $2 to get $1 back is a dumb policy).
If you think government managed health care is the answer I have to wonder why you think government monopolies are good.
Monopolies do not face competition and therefore have little incentive to provide you with a high quality service at a reasonable price. Government monopolies can earn money by force, meaning they have virtually no incentive to provide you with a high quality service at a reasonable price. Government monopolies are far worse than private sector monopolies -- even if Mother Teresa ran the monopoly.
@Patrick -
"Monopolies do not face competition and therefore have little incentive to provide you with a high quality service at a reasonable price"
___
Tell that to our EU brethren who deliver higher quality aggregate health care at roughly half our expenditure. Just sayin'.
Angry: you added nothing of substance to the preceding discussion, which I have followed with interest. Here's a cognitive exercise for you tonight. Please memorize, "The Mission of the Marine Corps rifle squad is to locate, close with, and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver, or repel the enemy's assault by fire and close combat." This is what war is all about. I will test you on this in the future.
BobbyG
An OECD report, that was supportive of universal healthcare, admitted that the trade off between universal health care and having it cost little is waiting lines, price controls and a general rationing of the service being provided. This does not necessarily make it high quality.
Additionally, the cost of universal health care does not include other factors - like tax collection and enforcement of the tax code. The private sector counts its billing department in its costs, but the government gets to play fast and loose with the books.
Finally, as I've said before 40% of our costs come from the government. We also spend a lot more on new technologies. Europeans get those technologies after we've tested them out - once they've gotten cheaper. They rely on us to help get them a high quality product.
Angry,
The goal of war is to defeat the enemy to obtain peace. You do that by destroying them in battle. I don't know what world you live in but you can't talk or bore people to death. Maybe your strategy is to love them to death or hug them to death? Or maybe you play WAR with a deck of cards?
If you want more competition in health insurance 1) lift the mandates 2) lift restrictions on health insurance competition by allowing a national market to be created 3) reform the tax code so there is no inherent benefit in receiving insurance from your employer (aka everyone is treated equally regardless of their employer or the benefits they provide).
Less government is the way to achieve that goal. Government doesn't provide competition, government destroys competition.
Anybody but hairy in 2010
@Patrick -
"...a general rationing of the service being provided"
___
This is extremely old news, and has nil to do with the reimbursement structure. See the Harvard 1994 Elhauge paper cited in my first health policy blog post (PDF link to the entire paper there).
As to your other point, I might add in fairness that critics also say that the reason the EU can provide universal coverage owes in large measure to the fact the the U.S. essentially covers their butts on military defense.
While that may be true and salient, that is a political decision WE make, and it still begs the question of how they can do so at roughly half our per capita cost. You gotta perhaps conclude that we are getting doubly screwed.
Again, the government needs to get the hell out of our Heath Care system. The Democrats have shown their true colors these last months. Failed Stimlulas bill, the whole "Too Big to Fail" philosophy, "Cash for Clunkers" , Cap and Trade, lying about how many jobs were creating because of the failed Stimulus Bill, and even "invented Congressional Districts" that don't exists, taking over GM Motors, creating CZARS that are not held accountable to the people,. The list goes on and on. Spending money like drunken sailors that we don't have and running our national debt up. Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Berkley, and Titus all contributors of the colossal mess. This has been the most irresponsible use of government in my lifetime.
Sen. Reid's health care bill, if passed will force States to increasingly pay more Medicaid costs crippling State Budgets. Forced costs of health insurance imposed on Americans, will disqualify millions of home-buyer mortgage applicants, needed to support home selling prices and values. Health insurance costs imposed on home buyers will increasingly lower home values and collected county property taxes as home buyers qualify for smaller mortgages. Homeowners confronted with insurance costs near or equal to their paid Income Tax, may default on their mortgage. Families deemed not poor by Government for subsidized insurance, may have to sell their homes or borrow money to buy health insurance or pay Opt-Out penalties with money needed for their medical expenses. Also of concern, what effect, will Obama's planned higher income taxes and new taxes have on tourists and consumer discretionary income spent in Nevada.