Print
E-mail
Share
delicious
digg
Newsvine
Facebook
Stumble
Technorati
reddit
Fark
twitterELECTION 2008 :
Galvanizing the gun vote
NRA hopes to seal election by painting Obama as no friend of the firearm
Tiffany Brown
Canadian tourists Colin Grosh, left, and David Mitchnick check out the wares Wednesday at the Las Vegas Gun Range & Firearms Center. The NRA says that in the past year it has registered more than 1 million gun owners to vote, and at the center “NObama” T-shirts are hot items, with most of the 300 ordered having been sold.
Mon, Oct 27, 2008 (2 a.m.)
Sun Topics
The National Rifle Association is pouring money and manpower into Nevada — the state’s 3rd Congressional District in particular — in hopes of defeating Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama and carrying Republican Rep. Jon Porter to a fourth term in Congress.
The group is spending $40 million nationwide this election season to tell its 4 million members — and tens of millions more gun owners — Obama would be the most anti-gun president in history. In Southern Nevada, the NRA has organized 60 volunteers to promote early voting and absentee balloting. Through last week, they had made 3,800 phone calls, visited 1,800 households and dropped 11,500 pieces of campaign literature throughout the Las Vegas Valley.
The group would not say how many members it has in Nevada.
“We want voters to know that when Barack Obama talks about gun rights, when he talks about the Second Amendment, it’s plain campaign rhetoric,” NRA national spokesman Andrew Arulanandam said. “He has a lifetime record of opposing gun rights and supporting gun control. To NRA members, voting records matter — and they matter more than what a politician says when he’s running for president.”
The NRA chose Reno as one of four cities to announce its endorsement of Sen. John McCain this month and is running radio, TV and print ads in Nevada, in addition to an ambitious get out-the-vote effort. The group says it registered to vote more than 1 million gun owners nationally in the past year.
The NRA has been a potent political force in past elections. Some Democrats attribute Al Gore’s loss in 2000 in part to the group’s efforts in Tennessee, West Virginia and Arkansas. In 2000 and 2004, gun owners favored George W. Bush by an overwhelming 30 percent margin.
Though the group’s effect on past Nevada races is unclear, its efforts could be an important boost for McCain and Porter this cycle, said University of Nevada, Reno, political scientist Eric Herzik.
“If it looks like there’s going to be a surge of new Democratic voters linked to Obama, it becomes even more critical the Republican base shows up,” he said. “You’re not going to convert an anti-gun Obama person to walk away, but you will certainly reinforce the Second Amendment guys. You pull back those leaners.”
This year, the NRA created a Web site — GunBaNObama.com — and argues that Obama will, among other things, appoint anti-gun Supreme Court justices. When the high court threw out the handgun ban in Washington, D.C., in June Obama sought a middle ground, saying he supports the right to gun ownership but also the right of local communities to enact “common-sense” regulations. McCain heralded the ruling, saying it was the first step toward ensuring gun rights.
The NRA points to Obama’s legislative record, highlighting his opposition as an Illinois state senator to creating a loophole for persons violating gun-registration laws if they used the firearm for self-defense. The group also cites his vote as a U.S. senator against a bill that protected gun manufacturers from lawsuits. It points to Obama’s comment this year that “bitter” voters cling to guns and religion.
Recognizing a weakness, Obama recently called that comment his “biggest boneheaded move” and his campaign has called the NRA’s ads misleading. The Obama campaign has launched ads here emphasizing the candidate’s support for the Second Amendment.
“I believe in the Second Amendment,” he told a crowd in Elko last month. “I believe in people’s lawful right to bear arms. I will not take your shotgun away. I will not take your rifle away. I won’t take your handgun away.”
The American Hunters and Shooters Association endorsed Obama.
Among gun owners, though, the NRA’s message, through ads and mailers, is sinking in.
“He’s going to be a gun grabber, for sure,” Bill Harmon, a retired engineer, registered Republican and McCain supporter, said of Obama last week while target shooting at the Las Vegas Gun Range & Firearms Center.
Douglas Jensen, a convenience store manager and registered Democrat, stopped in to the shop to get one of his six handguns repaired. He’s voting for McCain too. “I’ve seen what he did for Illinois,” he said. “And I don’t want him to push that agenda all over the United States.”
Gun shop owners are doing their part.
At the Las Vegas Gun Range, a “NObama” T-shirt is the centerpiece of an assault rifle display. Owners Michael Morrissey and Billy Conn printed about 300 of the shirts and almost all have been sold. “We feel McCain is a better chance for us,” Morrissey said, over the sounds of muffled machine-gun fire. “There’s a theory that people have the right to protect themselves against government. Well, Obama talks about sportsmen’s rights. But that doesn’t do you any good when you’re being oppressed or someone’s kicking in the door of your house.”
Morrissey fears a reinstatement of the assault weapons ban, which expired four years ago, would hit his shop hard. “I don’t think for a minute he’s going to take away all guns. It’s not practical,” he said. “Nor do I think he would intend to, if he could.”
Backed by a wall of assault rifles, Morrissey added: “What we want to know about is all this cool stuff. This is the fun stuff. This is good money stuff. People buy these literally for fun, and that’s what we’re worried about losing.”
Outside the Gun Store on Tropicana Avenue, a sign posted above a trash can reads: “Voting for Obama? Save time. Deposit your guns here.” Inside, assistant range manager Ernie Beckwith says customers worry about an Obama presidency. The shop offers free “NOBAMA” bumper stickers, as well as ones that read “NO GUNS NO RIGHTS.”
Chris Jones, a retired welder from Henderson, said he was buying a case of ammunition because “I want to get ’em before Obama says you can’t get ’em. The only reason anybody wants to disarm you is they wish to enslave you.”
To be sure, gun owners aren’t overly enthusiastic about McCain, hence the anti-Obama thrust of the NRA campaign. The Republican supported legislation that would have mandated background checks at gun shows and campaign finance reform limiting the influence of interest groups, such as the NRA.
Discussion: 93 comments so far…
Post a comment
Email Edition
- Most Read
- Discussed
- Most E-mailed
- Fourth fireworks light up valley sky
- Ensign’s pal lacked usual qualifications for job as senator’s senior aide
- Jay-Z lights up Las Vegas, lives life to the max
- Cousins attracting attention from college football recruiters
- Popular in their cities, could Reno or Las Vegas mayor be governor?
- Las Vegas to sizzle for the Fourth
- Strip performer is eBay high bidder for Elvis ring
- With success of Singapore campus, UNLV eyes United Arab Emirates
- Henderson house fire displaces family of three
- Swarm of crickets descends once again on Northern Nevada
Blogs
The Bull's-Eye
Real drama follows Desert Classic victory by 'The Power' (UPDATED)
Elsewhere
Spike TV's 'UFC's Ultimate 100: Greatest Fights' airs tonight
The Kats Report
LV Phil 'Spectacular' at Springs Preserve was great -- for the music
Punchy Points: UFC 100
No. 6: The Ref: Dean relishes role, making right calls (1 Comment)
The Bull's-Eye
Canadian is first in Desert Classic's final four, Barney joins him (UPDATED) (2 Comments)
Sports: Upon Further Review
July 4 at Wimbledon
The Kats Report
It's the fourth, it's the Phil, but it is not fireworks
Calendar
- Backyard BBQ at Bare Pool with Steve Aoki ( to )
- Dubfire of Deepdish at Prive (10 p.m. to 11:59 p.m.)
- Fourth of July party at Charlie’s Lakeside Casino ( to )
- Brooklyn Bridge Beer Bash at NYNY (noon to 11:59 p.m.)
The Sun
Locally owned and independent for more than 50 years.
Obama supported the law in Washington DC that banned all gun ownership. Obama backed the City of Chicago in banning all handguns. When the Supreme Court made their decision and he was running for national office all of a sudden Obama always knew the right to bear arms was a personal right. "What a joke. This is the biggest fairy tale ever told" bill clinton 2008. WATCH and HEAR Obama on video before he was running for national office blame WHITE people not wanting to pay taxes to help inner cities for the problems of black people.
http://www.redstate.com/diaries/redstate...
Apparently no one's bothered to read Obama's position on this. It's much easier to toss unmitigated crapola out there courtesy of such journalistic beacons of integrity as "redstate.com" than it is to accept fact.
As to the NRA, tell me again how non-partisan they are when actual facts are staring them in their collective faces yet still they press on with DEMOCRATS WANT TO TAKE AWAY OUR GUNS.
There ought to be a damn IQ test before anyone can buy a gun. <---MY OPINION ONLY.
Sorry, but the nra is on the wrong gun sight. They should be adressing issues of fact, not more Rove tactics that are causing their members to look like Randy Wever wantabes.
I agree - make these idiots take an IQ test - heck, make them take a current events quiz. Just because the NRA fabricates a story doesn't make it true.
Y'all oughta read the 2nd amendment. Most people get it backwards. It allows people to own arms so that they can serve in the militia (i.e. the national guard). It doesn't mean individuals can own handguns or shotguns or deer guns. It does mean they are allowed to own assualt rifles and 50 caliber machine guns and bazookas.
Ignorance and hate are far more important issues. I would happily vote against whatever these morons support...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0E3kW0M2...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJrbhPXQ3...
I kinda agreed with the idea that the 2nd amendment was written to keep the government from trampling our freedoms.. but... if U-tube said different I guess I was wrong.
GOSH DANG IT!
"...if U-tube said different I guess I was wrong."
Did you even follow the links? Nope. Too busy pre-judging I guess? Your response shows you have no idea what was even posted.
OMG, those videos rock johnvegas.
Btw, there are many of us who support restrictions on gun ownership. I do not agree with the Supreme Court (now filled with partisan hacks) that the first amendment allows for no restrictions.
Obama will appoint judges that are no friends to gun rights.
The recent 5-4 Supreme court decision reconized that 2nd admenment did indeed protect the individual's right to own guns.
I seriously doubt that Obama will appoint judges that would be like the 5 that voted for it.
I think he would appoint judges like the 4 that voted against it.
nance - this is one of the more level headed posts I've seen by you. Your point is "probably" accurate.
We just don't agree that the these are the only issues that matter, or even that they matter all that much.
I believe that we all have to give and take. We can't have everything we want. Our nation is diverse and moving forward always involves compromise.
I wish I could turn JohnVegas's post into a TV commercial.
There are a lot of those voters that Hussein calls, "Bitter Folk" who cling to guns and religion to deal with their problems.
"There are a lot of those voters that Hussein calls, "Bitter Folk" who cling to guns and religion to deal with their problems."
You mean these people?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqcfqiXC...
So they're not bitter? What are they then? Just stupid?
You are funny.
When Hussein made those remarks he was referring to Democratic voters in the PA's primary.
I guess you, like Hussein, are calling Democrats in Pa who voted for Hillary....stupid.
Yes, it is very smart to call voters bitter and stupid.
Another posting of JohnVegas, I wish could be made into a commerical.
Use your own words. Are you with them? Do you believe what they are saying? Do you support what they say as the "truth"? That "Obama is an Arab and that Arabs are disgusting dirty people who hate our children?" That "Obama is a Muslim and that Muslims are terrorists who want to kill us?"
To me, it's pure putrefaction. Seems...oh...a little on the stupid and bitter side. But what are your words for it?
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
1) A well regulated Milita shall not be infringed. No doesn't make sense.
2) being necessary to the security of a free State shall not be infringed. Nope doesn't make sense.
3) the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Oh wow that makes sense.
So the amendment is in two parts.
The people have a right to bear arms and the right to bear arms does not require you to be in the militia.
Even if you try that silly argument remember that a militia was not a permanent thing. It existed for a short time and went away. We have nothing of the sort today, so even then, the right to bear arms still exists.
Its an individual right.
And by the way, banning guns has not stopped gun violence. In fact, after the DC gun ban took effect gun related violence shot up.
Criminals keep their guns!!!! Its as simple as that.
Gun bans result from 1) ignorance and 2) bigotry against people who collect guns, hunt, or shoot for sport.
KDR, another way to read those words is that the right to keep and bear arms depends on whether you are in the militia, and I don't think the Founding Fathers meant the kind of militia that too many McCain supporters would belong to. I find it fascinating that some people are more worried about defending this constitutionally-guaranteed freedom than any other. It shows that what matters is not freedom of speech or thought, but the freedom to shoot.
As to those who just refer to "Hussein," it's funny that even John McCain, who doesn't have enough principle in him to fill a flea's navel, has said that sort of thing is wrong. Makes one wonder about bigotry.
The Gun Store as you can see is for LV Strip tourists who want to play around with assault rifles. The staff are pretty lazy and unhelpful, I can see where they have been spending their time now - spreading lies with the NRA about Obama. For hunters who want a real gun store, go to Bass Pro Shop and look into Obama and McCain's policies on protecting wildlife habitat and public land access and you can make the decision for yourself.
JohnVegas.....How would you describe people that say Bush was behind 9/11?
How would you describe people who say Palin's child is really her grandchild?
How would you describe people who say that Palin said that human's walked with dinosaurs 6,000 years ago?
I think stupid would be a good term......
You gun nuts kill me. (?) All this "our founding fathers" crap. If our founding fathers were alive today, they'd call you all a bunch of nincompoops. This isn't the 1700's anymore, kids. The world has moved on. Do you folks have absolutely NO common sense whatsoever?
Get a clue. There is NO WAY the crafters of the constitution could have invisioned the eventualities of society, no matter how smart they were. You cling to your narrow-minded redneck ideals blindly and without a care for your fellow human beings. I am NOT against gun ownership per-se, but jeez, it should be a privilege attained through proper training, background checks and licensing. COMMON SENSE!
No Mike, I already addressed that point. Aren't you a historian? You should know that back during the revolutionary period militias were called up at will.
The only thing comparable today is the fact, that I, as a male, have filled out my draft card. Based on your logic, that would be sufficient.
However, the constitution was never talking about having a gun as a requirement to be in the militia or being in the militia to own a gun.
Owning a gun is a constitutional right period. The militia part is a second idea.
GMAG = bigot and logically inconsistant. You want civil rights for those you like and none at all for those you don't.
Cedar - it is very, very unlikely those are assault rifles. In all likelyhood they are semi-automatic. One trigger pull one bullet.
As for Bass Pro Shop, they are ok, if you like corporatations who use taxpayer dollars to fund their stores. Cabellas offers better products but they too are coporate sleeze balls and demand taxpayer dollars.
btw people, there are ignorant and bigoted McCain supporters just as there are ignorant and bigoted Obama supporters and racists on both sides.
Obama's Record
Barack Obama's Gun Related Votes
Obama
Voted:
Supporting concealed carry for citizens NO Anti-gun
Banning many common semi-automatic firearms Yes Anti-gun
Disallowing self-defense in towns where guns are banned Yes Anti-gun
Imposing one handgun a month restrictions Yes Anti-gun
Requiring lock up your safety trigger locks YES Anti-gun
Protecting gun dealers from frivolous lawsuits NO Anti-gun
Squelching the free speech rights of gun owners YES Anti-gun
Restricting the interstate sales of firearms YES Anti-gun
Yup, voting for McCain is a great idea. That way, when the economy completely melts down, you'll still have your AK-47 to fend off looters who come after your food stockpiles.
Nance: "How would you describe people that say Bush was behind 9/11?"
Ridiculous.
"How would you describe people who say Palin's child is really her grandchild?"
Same, if true. But I haven't heard that one.
"How would you describe people who say that Palin said that human's walked with dinosaurs 6,000 years ago?"
Is she evangelical? Many of them believe that. I have no idea if she does, but the assertion in not necessarily wrong.
"I think stupid would be a good term......"
We agree, but I'm not sure how that equates to the videos I posted. It seems like these are fairly benign things in comparison to saying someone is a "dirty Arab terrorist America hating whatever".
"Is she evangelical? Many of them believe that. I have no idea if she does, but the assertion in not necessarily wrong."
Again, if one is bigoted then one would make such a statement to infer beliefs not only one person but a whole group of people.
Jimmy Carter is an evangelical....so I guess you would apply your bigoted inference to him, too.
Thanks for demostrating on how those "stupid" people think.....LOL
As for "How would you describe people who say Palin's child is really her grandchild?"
Same, if true. But I haven't heard that one."
It was page one on DailyKos website for almost a whole week.
Dina Titus supports gun ownership. I'll take her word for gun rights anyday over Porter.
Guns are for weak people.
Bunch of scared little boys that got picked on in high school.
lol.
Nice counterpoint Reb...we should base all our policy choises off of your oustanding logical capabilities.
THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE SWINGS THE GOLD WATCH BACK AND FORTH.
Chanting rhythmically.
Gun Rights"..Stop Abortion ... Stop Gays".
Gun Rights"..Stop Abortion ... Stop Gays".
The mesmerized participants become fixed on the swinging pendulum dangling from the left hand of the clever hypnotist.
All the while the rapt audience has not noticed that with his long right arm he is stealing money from their pockets.
THE DEMOCRAT CANDIDATE SWINGS THE GOLD WATCH BACK AND FORTH.
Chanting rhymically,
Abortion rights, affirmative action, welfare
Abortion rights, affirmative action, welfare.
The mesmerized participants become fixed on the swining pendulum dangling from the left hand of the clever hypnotist.
All the while the rapt audience has not noticed that with his long left arm he is stealing oney from their pockets and giving it to his uber-wealthy corporate friends.
Nance - I said "Many of them believe that." Which is absolutely true. I'm sorry that is outside your grasp.
Thank you mimicry is a form of flattery.
The fact is that the republicans have chanted that mantra for years and done nothing to alter any of the above. We by and large are destitute as a country. I am a former Bush supporter and have seen the result of poverty on families. Under Bush the rate of unwanted pregnancies has gone through the roof. Children are having children are having children...
Perhaps that is why the country is cleaning house in Washington.
JohnVegas:
"Nance - I said "Many of them believe that." Which is absolutely true. I'm sorry that is outside your grasp."
Just because something is in your brain does not make it true.
Have you interview every Christain on the planet and came up with proof needed to sustain your bigoted "truths"?
LOL........
SOME PEOPLE WOULD VOTE FOR A STUMP IF THEIR NRA AGENDA WAS TACKED TO IT
thanks, Mike, for your article. too bad the divisions are so deep. I put down some of my own thoughts:
http://www.sandraoffthestrip.com/2008/10...
From The Audacity of Hope: "I will stand with the MUSLIMS should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."
Incredibly, we have no definitive explanation of why a global financial crisis suddenly materialized just six weeks before U.S. elections. IF SUBPRIME loans hadn't happened in the FIRST place there wouldn't have been PRODUCT to bundle, sell and mutilate. DEMOCRATS headed the FINANCE committees that fought reform.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008...
Left-leaning hedge fund operators poured their profits into Democrats & Obama.
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/soros-bets...
Who Is the Economic Meltdown REALLY benefiting?
HAMAS PRAISES OBAMA AGAIN -- and Biden, Too. Ahmed Yousef says that the terrorist group would send Obama a congratulation letter "the moment he will win the election." BIDEN warns us to "gird our loins."
AL-JAZEERA FOR OBAMA http://www.aim.org/aim-column/al-jazeera...
Before you VOTE please visit: http://www.actforamerica.org/ & see VOTER GUIDE.
Act for America is dedicated to educating the West about the spread of radical Islam.
CAWren....So I guess you are saying that Obama does not support the right to own a gun?
CAWren so what have you done to stop George Bush from impregnating all those girls?
and of course the Republicans aren't going to change the Dems favorite policies. If they get in control they would expand them to increase their own popularity and tie everyone's welfare to their electability. Oh, wait, that is what they did.
Now Dems are going to come in promise change, but do the exact same things Republicans did...expand government and increase spending.
KDR, yes, I am a historian, and that's why I know that not everyone was in the militia. So, if your logic is that everyone was supposed to be in the militia, are you and I members of a militia now? If not, we couldn't own a gun.
Whether or not the Constitution bans gun ownership or allows everyone to own an Uzi is not my point here. But you will note that in the Second Amendment, it says that a "well-regulated militia" is necessary to our freedom. How do we define that? If all of us are potentially in the militia because we can own guns, it is possible that means the Founding Fathers intended gun ownership to be well regulated. We simply do not know, which also suggests that we think a lot more about it than they did, and there's a message in that.
Nance "Have you interview every Christain on the planet and came up with proof needed to sustain your bigoted "truths"?
What are you talking about? Who said every Christian believes that? I said many evangelical Christians believe it, which they do. There is a massive difference between the statements "All Christians" and "many evangelical Christians".
".....your bigoted "truths"?"
My statement isn't even the slightest bit bigoted and it is clear you do not know that the word bigot means.
Nance, you and Makz are doing a fine job. Your vicious hatred of Obama and the bigoted lies you and your rightie friends proliferate as truth have finally come to roost. You must be so proud!
Federal Agents Foil Skinhead Plot To Kill Obama
http://cbs5.com/campaign08/obama.assasin...
You and your "friends" are disgusting! You are going to rot in hell for what you've said here and what you've promoted for for your hatred. You are truly putrid and vile. TRULY!
Johny Vegas, what you have just done is a corruption of intelligence, a downright stupid intellectual mistake.
You cannot link peoples dislike of Obama and his political preference to skinheads who want to kill him.
That is just stupid.
If you want to play that game then be prepared to get acquainted with Nazis because I am willing to bet all the money I have, that you have more in common with Nazis than you think.
You're only a Nazi if you keep making stupid arguments like the one above.
Well johne, someone had to stop the radical Muslim from getting in. My god, if Barack is elected he will hand over the country to al Quaeda. He'll abort every baby for 4 years. He'll take away guns from everyone, and he'll tax rich white people and give it all to minorities. He'll... He'll...
He'll do just fine and be at worst a run-of-the-mill president who maybe shifted the supreme court and other agencies more to the left. The funny thing is that these republicans sound exactly like dems in 2000/2004. OMG the world will fall a part if W is elected. Abortion will be gone, our forests will be gone, reading will be banned. Come on folks.
The pendulum always swings back to the other side. If Obama messes up bad, you'll have another 4/8 years of republican presidency and probably majorities in congress. Look at the bright side, there's opportunity in the coming years.
Mike you're missing something somewhere.
Let me try and re-explain.
1) Militias were groups of men called up at will to meet some problem.
2) Not everone was in a militia.
3) People serving in the militia were only serving temporarily, thus not all the time.
Yet all people, regardless of whether they served or would serve in a militia were allowed to have guns...all the time Nothing like this exists today except for the draft.
(however the draft is merely slave labor to the government and I doubt anyone would pin a constitutional right to slave labor - this is another debate).
So if your logic is correct, ie, you have to serve in the militia to own a gun, at best, simply signing up for the draft serves that purpose.
However, women could be excluded and I'm afraid no court has ever upheld that.
I'm not saying and never will say that you have to be in a militia to own a gun. That is your point of view and it is wrong.
The right to own a gun has always been seperate from your service to a militia or the state. IE, it is an individual right.
And no, a well regulated militia would have ment a well trained and equiped militia.
Not the regulation of fire arms.
yet another corruption of a term....like welfare, or liberal where the terms mean the exact opposite of their usage when our country was founded.
You should know that. If, not, let me know if your college is hiring, I'm qualified and come with experience.
In johne's defense, republicans and their proxies have been whipping up anti-Obama fervor. There has been repeated invocations of his middle name as an insinuating phrase to say he's foreign/not American.
Repeated phrases that he's a socialist, that he's an African/Malayasian national. All the rhetoric of him palling around with terrorists. All of that leads people to believe certain things. It leads the less than stable among us to think certain unthinkable thoughts.
This is what the McCain/republican campaign might be reaping. The Todd story plays in there too. People thinking angry/scary black men are running rampant, trying to get Obama elected by any means necessary. It all adds up. What should have been done from the start was a campaign of ideas and issues, not of color, race, and association.
We're in too big a mess for the campaign to be based on who's worse for the country. It should be about who's better for the country.
Yes some have, and it is whipped up even further when people like Johnevegas make those immature comments.
Both Democrats and Republicans have thrown rationality and logic out the window and have excepted tribal warfare instead.
Obama, probably was a socialist in college, he's had no real opinions since being elected nationally for anyone to know what he's really about.
I don't think any of this, race, religion, or name, would be a problem if our government wasn't big, bad and scarey to begin with. We've got a government that is big enough to promise everything we want, give us most of it, but it also has the power to take it all away.
Deep down, I think that is what really scares people...
"You're only a Nazi if you keep making stupid arguments like the one above."
Really really deep KDR. I'll try to remember that the right wing hate on this site is not hateful and that Nazi hate is different, and that what I am doing makes me a Nazi. Gee, you sure know a lot about Nazis.
PUHLEEZE!
"Yes some have, and it is whipped up even further when people like Johnevegas make those immature comments."
You mistake immaturity with disgust and anger. The right wing comments on this board are disgusting and so are you for defending them.
Obama is a terrorist? Obama hates America? Obama is a dirty disgusting Arab muslim who will destroy our country? And my comments are immature?
You must be one of those real Americans I hear so much about. Garsh Cowboy, you sure is learned good! Thanks fer setting me straight on my maturity level and how I'm a Nazi and all.
Thomas Jefferson believed that people should revolt against their government every 10 years on principle. It's hard to do that if the people don't have weapons to do so with.
Why is it so hard to understand that the Bill of Rights is meant to protect us from the Government, and when viewed in that fashion the 2nd Ammendment makes perfect sense even today?
JohnVegas you fail to understand your own bigotry.
You are saying that most of Christains believe in a certain manner without any proof like a poll.
How do you know that most of them believe in that?
Any proof?
It just something in your head. Probably something your read off the DailyKos.
Then you take imaginery statement of "truth" and try to apply to a member of that group is bigotry upon bigotry.
Just admit you have no clue what you are taking about
You are making general statements about a group of people and have nothing to back it up.
Even worse, you want to apply that inference without support to one person in the group.
Bigot...............
"You are saying that most of Christains believe in a certain manner without any proof like a poll. How do you know that most of them believe in that? Any proof?"
Sure. 12 years of studying the world's religions directly via a mystery school and a lifetime (since 5 years old) as four types of Evangelical Christian and then a Hindu/Buddhist. I've also studied mythology, modern spiritual development practices, as well as shamanism and paganism. So I do happen know a great deal about the subject, as a matter of fact.
I believe the information to be both common knowledge and non-controversial.
Not sure why you are making an issue of this. As I said before, in what I believed was a fairly benign way, I do not know if Sarah believes that. If she is an evangelical Christian, she might, because many of them do.
If you think that I'm a bigot because I said that, then you have lost me in how. I truly don't see where my comments are the slightest bit judgmental, condemning, or polarized in any way.
It's just my expert opinion. Are you an expert on this subject?
redferret... Very well said. Very well. I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, this is the no common sense allowed forum. sorry. It all falls on deaf ears.
By the way Nance, I think Bush believes the dinosaurs are 6000 years old thing. A book was published and is being sold in the Grand Canyon book store that follows that tract. The canyon is 6000 years old and was created via Noah's flood and all. You know this, right?
I'll see if I can find it. I swear Nance, this is all over the place, so the notion that Sarah might believe is not far fetched at all. Not at all.
You should read up on Joseph Smith. There are a lot of really good stories out there. You might find yourself less surprised by these things when other people do them.
Lastly, I have no idea what Sarah believes about religion. I said so in my first post, which you keep ignoring. However, if she did believe that, I would not hold those beliefs against her. I expect my elected leaders to be thoughtful, intelligent, compassionate people who care about the common good and genuinly want to do the right thing no matter what religion they follow or what they specifically believe.
I am assuming that about everyone running right now.
"...you fail to understand your own bigotry."
This is painful to read. I will look at that.
But I think you are missing a key message in the statement. Can you admit as much?
Check out the story on CNN about the 8 year-old boy who shot himself in the head and died yesterday at a gun show in Massachusetts. WITH AN UZI, while being supervised, at what was billed as a "legal & fun time" where folks can shoot at pumpkins, cars, and other targets.
Just another reflection of our societies fascination with weapons, and hey, let's start em' off young.
juanvegas: based on what you've studied, its apparent that your knowledge base is very shallow. Have you ever produced food for others to eat, or basic products for others to use as a necessary part of their daily life? Well, neither has the annointed one that you all worship. There is no Diety, no Heaven, and certainly no Messiah. Obama is a fraud. The only unimpeacheable reality is that all of our national wealth is in China. Las Vegas will be a ghost town and a dust bowl in ten years.
mikegino... what in the heck is it you and your fellow fringe element friends feel you are gaining by the goofy nonsense you spout about Obama? Why are you so afraid? I think y'all need some serious help. Please, get a grip. Or at least use some rational argumentation.
What's with the paranoia? Even if he becomes President, it's not as if one person has the authority to overturn the 2nd Amendment. Do you honestly think that he or any other person would have the time to worry about gun laws? Do you see the mess this nation is in? There's a whole lot more to worry about than your self-centered interests. Start using your brains instead of your emotions.
Teaser -- good point. With a few exceptions relating to interstate trafficking of weapons, the president has very little to do with gun laws. And Obama has long made it clear that (a) he believes the 2nd Amendment creates an individual right to own weapons regardless of whether one belongs to a militia, and (b) he will not touch hunters' rights to own hunting weapons. But, should we take reasonable efforts to keep guns out of the hands of felons and crazy people? I would think so.
Mikegino stated (after his racist shot at Johnevegas), "Have you ever produced food for others to eat, or basic products for others to use as a necessary part of their daily life?" Uh, what does that have to do with anything? And, for what it's worth, McCain's gainful employment has been to (a) drop napalm on people, (b) be a toady for the Navy with congresspeople, (c) marry into megawealth, and (d) sit around in Congress and create only one significant piece of legislation, a campaign reform law that he now tries to circumvent.
gmag: Element friends? Obama is a fraud and McCain is his enabler. You, however, are a tool.
sticks & stones, you nut.
"juanvegas:"
Another hateful bigot on the right? Nooohhh????
Say it ain't so? Are you sure it isn't joanevegas? I'm sure you have to homophobia in there too.
"There is no Diety, no Heaven, and certainly no Messiah."
I love this! Thanks for clarifying, I'll tell the billions of followers in this world that you have it all figured out.... for everybody!
"Obama is a fraud. The only unimpeacheable reality is that all of our national wealth is in China."
You mean he's just like Bush?
"Las Vegas will be a ghost town and a dust bowl in ten years."
Then hurry and leave now while you can!
Nance - No response? I told you my qualifications. Where are yours? Where is this wealth of knowledge to reinforce your point?
I'm still laughing the it upsets you so much that your Sarah might actually believe dinosaurs walked on this earth only six thousand years ago and that the Grand Canyon was formed during Noah's flood.
It upsets you so much that you would call me a "bigot" just because I suggested it as a possibility. You do not know what bigot means and you do not know bigotry when you see it.
Let me help you out, here are some obvious examples of bigotry used here...
"joanevegas" - homophobic bigotry
"juanevegas" - racist bigotry
See how easy that is?
mikegino -"Obama is a fraud and McCain is his enabler."
And there are no Gods? Do you hate everyone or is it just people with power (or deities) that scare you?
If anything ever happened to Obama, I think Morrissey might need his "cool stuff".
Backed by a wall of assault rifles, Morrissey added: "What we want to know about is all this cool stuff. This is the fun stuff. This is good money stuff. People buy these literally for fun, and that's what we're worried about losing."
mikegino "There is no Diety, no Heaven, and certainly no Messiah."
He who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead; his eyes are closed.
-- Albert Einstein
You do not have to believe in any God, Mike. But the certainty with which you make that statement closes you off to all other possibilities. You might want to look at Buddhism, for example.
After reading all this back and forth name calling I feel compelled to add a thought. With the current state of our economic woes, should we not be more worried about which candidate would be capable of getting us back on the right track? Don't get me wrong, gun rights are an important issue, as I myself own a fairly large number of both handguns, and rifles, but I would have a difficult time maintaining them if I were unemployed, homeless, and had no money. There are obviously positive things, as well as negative things that can be argued on behalf of BOTH Candidates, in regards to all of thier policies. The energy and anger in some of these posts shows that we as a People will never agree 100 percent on most topics, and that thankfully, our Constitution grants us the right to express our opinions, but why do we need to resort to the name calling? And to bring up Naziism while discussing "Gun control" issues ... wow. And additionally, need I remind some people, our Constitution also prohibits the mixing of Church and State ... how is that working out so far? Two thoughts come to mind: 1. "We agree to disagree" - is this really grounds to denegrade someone with a differing opinion, be it an informed opinion or not? 2. "Common sense is not very common" - I don't believe I need to comment further on that statement.
JohnVegas....You are making a generalized statement about a group of people that is very broad and loosely defined.
Then you are trying to bring a generalized statement about a group of people and infer it upon one person in the group.
First the group is very broad and loosely defined. "The term "Evangelicalism" is a wide-reaching definitional "canopy" that covers a diverse number of Protestant groups."
http://www.wheaton.edu/isae/defining_eva...
Second you are using some rare anecdotal evidence about this broad group of people.
If would be different if you were using some formal statement of her peculiar faith, or some book written by a spiritual leader in her peculiar faith or a poll from Christians. You even admit that you do not know what sect of Christianity she belongs to. I was around "evangelicals" earlier in my life. I never once heard anybody say or read once about the supposedly age of the earth. In fact, there are Bible verses that only spiritual fools get involved in such discussions.
Third, you want to infer a generalized statement from a group then infer onto the individual even though the individual has never spoken her thoughts on that topic. You could extend that logic to everyone in the broad group, like Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and Obama.
What is funny is that you call McCain supporters stupid and ignorant for doing the exact same stinking logical thinking and bonehead statements.
Similar Bigoted statement to the logic you use: I have seen and read that Black Christian people say that AIDs was created and given to Black Christian people from the USA government. Therefore most Black Christain people believe AIDS is USA government murder. Obama is a Christian Black and therefore Obama must believe AIDs is government murder.
An 8 year old boy fatally shot himself by accident while trying to fire an Uzi in front of his father and a crowd of people at a gun show in Mass. The recoil caused him to lose control of the weapon which resulted in him shooting himself. It was perfectly legal to allow an 8 year old child to fire a submachine gun while he was being "supervised" by an instructor in front of his father.
But we still don't need gun control laws, right? At least those that make it illegal to allow a 3rd grader to fire an Uzi.
http://www.wfsb.com/news/17810051/detail...
LT, where do we draw the line on which Gun Laws should be enacted? This poor Childs death is a case of a lack of common sense on the part of his Father, whom will have to live the rest of his life with his sons death on his conscience. Do we enact a law restricting the rights of ALL citizens because of a lack of common sense on the part of only a small few? In my humble opinion, gun laws restricting felons from ownership are the only laws which should be in place. Why should an average, everyday, law-abiding citizen have restrictions placed upon a sport or a hobby he/she thoroughly enjoys because a few people show a lack of common sense? It goes back to the old saying "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have Guns", which holds true in almost any type of gun control laws.
"JohnVegas....You are making a generalized statement about a group of people that is very broad and loosely defined."
"Then you are trying to bring a generalized statement about a group of people and infer it upon one person in the group."
Oh, this is just RICH.
Sorry, John, I have to jump in on this one. Nance, you are the KING of making generalized statements and assumptions based off the actions of one person. It's the only way you've ever argued on this board.
Lets take a quote from Nance, and apply his own SHOCK and HORROR at generalized statements.
"For 20 years, Hussein heard sermons that spew hate with the whole church jumping in joy."
"I guess Hussein understands a lot about people who are bitter because it seems his church was extremely bitter."
Well, religious intolerance, how ya doin? I guess it's totally fine to make a crass generalization that Wright's church is full of "bitter" people, but suddenly NOT ok when you say that many evangelical Christians believe the earth is only 6000 years old.
Seems the return of Nance's double standard is nigh!
I gotta throw in two cents on this whole elected officials and the age of the earth.
It is a personal thing, religion, and religion can color how we see the history of the earth (billions of years vs 6500). The problem is a young earth (6500 yo) person will likely reject evolution and the idea of teaching kids evolution. At a private school that's all well and fine (my CATHOLIC high school actually taught evolution outright), but a public high school not so much.
To put it bluntly, accredited colleges (you know, the ones that give us doctors, lawyers, engineers) ONLY teach evolution. Evolution (ie the earth is billions of years old) is the only accepted SCIENTIFIC theory out there. I don't want our president saying kids shouldn't learn something that they will need to succeed at the college level. That's it.
RickHLV said: "Do we enact a law restricting the rights of ALL citizens because of a lack of common sense on the part of only a small few?"
Absolutely not. However, just like there are laws that forbid minors from operating vehicles until they reach a certain age, there should be laws forbiding minors from handling firearms, at least a submachine weapon that is commonly used in battle.
Minors cannot (legally) drink alchohol (in some states a minor working a cash register can't even handle alchohol during a transaction and must get a supervisor to do it) or smoke. I don't think that having a minimum age for handling a weapon is irrational.
"In my humble opinion, gun laws restricting felons from ownership are the only laws which should be in place. Why should an average, everyday, law-abiding citizen have restrictions placed upon a sport or a hobby he/she thoroughly enjoys because a few people show a lack of common sense?"
I understand having guns for protection or sport. However, I don't see the need for having semi-automatic weapons except for carrying out drive-by shootings. And I definitely can't understand how someone would let a kid handle a gun that probably weighs as much as he does.
I definitely believe in the 2nd Ammendment, however, there have to be certain regulations so that weapons don't end up in the wrong hands, and so that 8 year olds don't die as a result of "legally" handling an Uzi while "under supervision".
I have to second RickHLV's position. You can not legislate common sense.
"For 20 years, Hussein heard sermons that spew hate with the whole church jumping in joy."
"I guess Hussein understands a lot about people who are bitter because it seems his church was extremely bitter."
Hussien has for over 20 years heard his spiritual mentor say stuff like "God Dam America" and "USA government murders blacks by giving them AIDS" and "USA government gives drugs to blacks" and church does have Hamas anti-Israel material in its foyer and it has given praise to the most famous jew hater in America----Farrakhan.
That is the truth.
Obama sat and listem to crap for years and has even praised the jew hater himself.
Obama dedicated a chapter of his book to his hateful spiritual mentor before he threw him under the bus.
Does it mean it believes that crap?
No, but it does mean is not offended by it or he would have confronted his spiritual mentor years ago. He did not get offended until it became a big political issue.
Obama is not much of a leader.
So no repudiation of your double standard, just defense of your assertion that, since Jeremiah Wright believes those things, every person in his flock does as well? They believe it, hence they are bitter, right? Forget the fact that you are ASSUMING so much based on 5 minutes of videotape... of 20 years worth of sermons. ("listem to crap for years") Wait, didn't you whine that John didn't have any POLLS to back up his assertion? Where are your polls? How dare you tar the fellowship of that church as "bitter" without polls!
I believe the word I'm looking for is: hypocrite.
Yes, Wright said some awful stuff. That is the truth.
Yes, many evangelicals believe the Earth is only 6000 years old. That is the truth.
What's next, are you going to deny the existence of gravity?
Nance: "You are making a generalized statement about a group of people that is very broad and loosely defined.
Then you are trying to bring a generalized statement about a group of people and infer it upon one person in the group."
I'm sorry you don't like the statement. You'll not only have to live with it, but you'll have to deal with the fact that you are the only one who cares.
As far as my expertise is concerned. I'm an expert on the subject. I know a great deal about it. I have no idea why that's a problem for you either, but if you think I'm going to pretend like I don't know what I'm talking about just so you can be comfortable, you're wrong.
Nance, you've lost this one. You are completely uninformed on Sarah's faith and you are unaware of what the word bigot even means.
And for the last time, I do not care about Sarah's faith or what she believes. That being said, who in the hell do you think you are to say what Obama believes? You're a massive hypocrite, which comes as no news to anyone here.
Johnevegas, you missed my point:
"You're only a Nazi if you keep making stupid arguments like the one above."
Really really deep KDR. I'll try to remember that the right wing hate on this site is not hateful and that Nazi hate is different, and that what I am doing makes me a Nazi. Gee, you sure know a lot about Nazis.
PUHLEEZE!"
By your poor use of logical arguments (linking one group to another via some common thread) I can thereby call you a Nazi if I so wanted to make that illogical fallacy (name calling as you have done so well).
I'm not suggesting that you are a Nazi for your poor logical argument way, way above, but would suggest it because your political preferences hold common beliefs with Nazis.
Again, I'm not calling you a Nazi, just saying that if you keep up the name calling attacks (and linking distant groups as one because they hold a common belief) then someone can legitimately call you a Nazi.
I hope I explained it better this time.
Nance: Why do you keep referring to Barack Obama as Hussein? Are you trying to insinuate that he is an Arab or a Muslim? Or are you just trying to show that he is the same as Saddam Hussein because they share a similar name? And how can he be an angry Christian and a Muslin at the same time?
It seems bigoted of you to keep inferring that someone is less of a person or incompatible with being president because of their race or religion.
So let me get this straight, the notion that Sarah might believe the dinosaur thing makes me a bigot, but you can state emphatically that someone is an angry Christian, Muslim, Arab America hater, and that's okay? Gee.. ummmm... that seems really stupid of you.
Well, here's one for you KDR. What do you say about this moron-like perspective? Is nance being a hateful Nazi-like jerk or is it just the lefties (or me specifically) who make broad-range assumptions and say hateful Nazi like things?
BTW, KDR, I still don't get the whole Nazi thing. I don't even think that Nazis had email. But you seem to know so much about it, so I'll trust you.
JohnVegas takes his point from a website that has big letters "FAKE PALIN QUOTEs".
So he get gets suckered into point that is based on a fake quote.
Now, he is trying to claim he is "expert" and say that billions of Christain believe in a certain way on some obscured topic that is rarely talked about.
"Expert"........LOL........How about a poll? Nope
How about a statement of faith? Nope
Just trust JohnVegas....he is an "expert"....because he says so.....it must be true.
And via magic he is guessing that just perhaps Palin's believes in it, too. (shsssssssss JohnVegas reads minds, too. This is how he knows billions of Christians believe a certain way.)
JohnVegas.........you are soooooooooooooooooooooo funny.
You go around saying people are stupid for saying stuff that is exactly the same type of thing you are saying.
Just cause I love watching Nance eat his words:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_pub...
In 1999-NOV, Focus on the Family, a Fundamentalist Christian agency, concluded a poll of their web site visitors concerning their beliefs about creation and evolution. Results were:
God created the universe, but I don't know when: 46%
God created the universe thousands of years ago: 43%
God created the universe billions of years ago: 10%
Life came into being and evolved on its own: 1%
I don't have a clue: 0.4%
Now, a few things. First it's an internet poll, but Nance wasn't specific about what type of poll, he just wanted a poll. Second, it was on the website of Focus on the Family, thus the audience was already limited to people who knew the organization or were familiar with the cause.
There's your poll, Nance. There's somewhere of a 43% chance that Palin believes the universe was created a few thousand years ago. But who knows? The McCain campaign won't let the press ask her!
And wow, 43%? That's a huge number if you cross-apply it to Christianity-at-large.
And just for fun, here's an anecdotal bit from Cameron Strang, who did a poll of his followers on Facebook and Twitter and the majority of them believed in Young Earth: http://blog.beliefnet.com/textmessages/2...
Nance "Now, he is trying to claim he is "expert" and say that billions of Christain believe in a certain way on some obscured topic that is rarely talked about."
So to you, "many" equals "billions". Good to know. I was not aware we had all decided on that common definition. But good to know you see it that way.
"Just trust JohnVegas....he is an "expert"....because he says so.....it must be true."
I am an expert Nance, and I've backed that up as well. Your lack of respect for my education and experience doesn't demean its value whatsoever. You can deny my expertise all you want. I honestly do not care.
Since you clearly suck at debating religious beliefs, let's go with your core competency instead, bigotry. Please explain how my statement "Many Evangelical Christian's believe that Men Walked the Earth with Dinosaurs 6000 yeas ago" is bigoted.
Oh, one last thing -
"...obscured topic that is rarely talked about..."
Are you serious or seriously drunk? No wonder you are clueless on this topic. You are vastly uninformed. This information is not obscure at all and is talked about constantly. Hello? Kansas Board of Education? Creationism? Evolution out of Schools?
You lost this one, massively. Answer the bigot question and move along. How is my statement about Christians bigotry?
I guess if you want to be very vague about what "many" means then you could be correct.
I could say that many Mulism people think that Obama is the messiah.
In your world of logic, it would be a correct statement.
It is an obscured topic in the religious world.
I have never ever been involved in a dicussion at church or a religious person and discussed "Men Walked the Earth with Dinosaurs 6000 years ago". Believing in creationism and believing that "men walked the Earth with Dinosaurs 6,000 years ago" are to totally different topics. I have never heard in any discussions with churgh goers or religious people the age of the earth or when men walked with dinosaurs.
Yes creationism is discuss but I have never heard "Men Walked the Earth with Dinosaurs 6000 yeas ago".
You would be correct that many believe in creationism over evolution or that many people have doubts about evolution.
Again, many of those same people would probably have give very little thought to "man walked the earth with Dinosaurs 6000 years ago".
There is a poll that says only 27% of Amercians believe in evolution and half of that 27% believe that God was involved with evolution.
The same poll says that over 66% of Amercians want creationism thaught along with evolution in schools.
When I was making fun of you being an "expert" is that declaring yourself an "expert" but not offering any true evidence (like a poll, real quotes, statement of faith from any church) is not a good way of proving your point.
That original comment you made about Palin has it roots from a hoax website that in bold letters says, "FAKE PALIN QUOTES".
DailyKos ran it as the truth. It trickled down to you when you drink your koolaid one day and did not know you were getting suckered into a joke.
Just admit that you goofed and move on.
"Just admit that you goofed and move on."
I was watching one of my mystery school peers on PBS last night. He won an Oscar for his work with creating landscapes and animation with Mandelbrot fractals.
As he was explaining how he did it, I was reminded of the work we all go through as mystery scholars, as well as the really fine people I get to work with.
It was a stark contrast to this conversation Nance. Which would be a massive waste of time except for what I am learning from you.
Can you imagine what I might be learning from you, Nance? It's not political, but it's awesome.
No response on the bigot question? I'm sad.
Part One
Wow, it's amazing we lasted this long as a nation.
Gun control doesn't work. Look at every city and nation that has locked down private gun ownership and you will see a direct correlation in violent crime increases. Those are hard facts that the anti-gunners don't want you to hear or read about.
Now a disclaimer, I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat but I know many of you are... if you take issue with the facts presented please take them up with the originating authors. I am only passing on what should be common knowledge already. In other words don't shoot the Libertarian messenger.
HOW LONG DO WE HAVE?
This is the most interesting thing I've read in a long time. The sad thing about it, you can see it coming.
I have always heard about this democracy countdown. It is interesting to see it in print. Help us, not that we deserve it.
About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government."
"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."
"From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."
"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years"
"During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:
1. from bondage to spiritual faith;
2. from spiritual faith to great courage;
3. from courage to liberty;
4. from liberty to abundance;
5. from abundance to complacency;
6. from complacency to apathy;
7. from apathy to dependence;
8. from dependence back into bondage"
Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election:
Number of States won by:
Democrats: 19
Republicans: 29
Square miles of land won by:
Democrats: 580,000
Republicans: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by:
Democrats: 127 million
Republicans: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: (This is what gun control will get you...)
Democrats: 13.2 (pro-gun control)
Republicans: 2.1 (pro-second amendment)
Part Two
Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Republican won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country. Democrat territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..."
Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.
If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders called illegals and they vote, then we can say goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.
If you are in favor of this, then by all means, delete this message. If you are not, then pass this along to help everyone realize just how much is at stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom.
WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE, ONLY BECAUSE OF THE ARMED BRAVE.
You need to understand that the militia were originally the minutemen colonists that were armed and ready to fight for their freedom from oppression. The same is true today, while we prefer to use the political and legal process to ensure our freedoms. The sad truth is politics and laws don't always work and we the people suffer the consequences of these failed policies and negotiations. That's where private citizens that are armed come into play. The right to bear arms is in our constitution to ensure the American people never again knelt to a monarchy or felt the oppression of a dictatorship.
Thats why the government wants us unarmed, because we are a danger to their plans to enslave you. And if you think I am some "nut job" then look again at every single Republic before us... the evidence and proof of the very real, clear and present danger to this nation is in front of your face. So either you are a patriot that is willing to defend the Constitution against ALL enemies both foreign or domestic, or you are an enemy of the state.
"Thats why the government wants us unarmed, because we are a danger to their plans to enslave you."
So you are suggesting that if I have a gun, I can shoot the bastards when they try to take my rights? If that's true, I should be able to shoot someone at the NSA right now.
"And if you think I am some "nut job"....""
I'm not sure if "think" is a strong enough word.
So you would rather live in a nation controlled by Socialists that you depend on to protect you from criminals? Essentially your reply conveys that tone. You are willing to give up your essential liberties for a short period of perceived security? Because that's what it sounds like to me.
It's not a matter of just shooting someone but having the power of the people, which is more powerful when they are armed to prevent abuses. Think of it as a deterrent. It works quite well against those that commit violent crimes. Look at the statistics to see the proof of that.
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/id0...
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/mounta...
http://www.davidstuff.com/opinion/guncon...
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment...
http://www.kc3.com/editorial/gun_control...
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/keyes...
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/morgan2....
http://wardsword.blogspot.com/2008/08/re...
http://www.reason.com/news/show/127201.h...
http://huckabee.wordpress.com/2007/07/21...
http://www.reason.com/news/show/129309.h...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/6...
http://www.censorthis.com/edward/reason....
Barack Obama arrives at the Pearly Gates and is greeted by Saint Peter: "May I go in?" asks Obama. "First I must ask you a few questions" answers the heavenly gatekeeper. "O.K." replies Obama, "I'm pretty good at Q & A." "Well," asks the saint, "What did you accomplish in your time on Earth to merit spending eternity in Paradise?" "I was elected the first Black president of the United States of America!" Obama proudly declares. "A Black president in America!" exclaims Saint Peter. "Hallelujah, when did this happen?" "About 20 minutes ago!" Obama answers.