LETTER TO THE EDITOR:

School uniforms will only add to problem

David Kelman, Las Vegas

Sun, Nov 23, 2008 (2:03 a.m.)

Regarding state Sen. Bob Coffin’s bill requiring uniforms in all public schools:

It’s appalling that the senator would go to great lengths to make a bad education situation even worse.

Please tell us how an article of clothing will stop truancy, raise test scores, make kids more focused, or inspire them to do their homework more often.

Clothing is not the issue in schools. Kids will still get teased for glasses, different hair, freckles, height, weight, speech impediments, gaps in their teeth, or even something as trivial as their names. There are schools nationwide that have tried mandatory uniforms, and then decided to opt out after it was proved that this does not solve the problems.

Contrary to mistaken belief, uniforms end up costing taxpayers more money. Not only do you have to buy special clothes instead of running to Savers or Wal-Mart, you also need to purchase a second set of clothes for the kids after school. And that’s not to mention the extra teacher time doing clothing inspections.

Maybe if school budgets weren’t being slashed more frequently than the prices of items at a going out of business sale, we would have better morale in schools. It’s difficult to have extra pep in your step when you realize nobody is doing anything to help you.

You can slap a uniform on a piece of coal. You still have a piece of coal.

Discussion: 14 comments so far…

By jfnance32

11/23/08 at 9:30 a.m.

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This is one of the reasons why public education sucks.

For any changes in public education it has to go through a process of committees, layers of red tape, union sign-off, interpreatation of state, local and federal regulations, audits and even sometimes a law has to be passed.

It is a slow and painful process that sometimes includes lawsuits as added barriers.

Also, everybody wants to put in their two cents worth.
By teacher

11/23/08 at 9:40 a.m.

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Thank you, Mr. Kelman. Promoting school uniforms promotes, in my opinion, a false sense that a school is actually doing something about discipline. It is a smokescreen to hide the fact that there's little schools are willing to do, because they're afraid of making parents mad. It is like fake discipline: The kids can still disrupt, harass teachers, bully each other, and get away with a slap on the wrist at best: "But look, we're doing something about it!"

It is oppressive, makes a school a drab place, takes away individual expression in a society in which freedom is promoted as being a positive thing, not a negative thing, and does not solve discipline problems. It punishes the vast majority of kids who do not break a regular dress code in favor of trying to control the small number who do by controlling everybody, instead of just the culprits. It always amazes me when schools teach about what a great, free country we live in, then do things like this. What hypocrisy.
By daftchemicals

11/23/08 at 11:36 a.m.

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Thank you, teacher, for taking my side on this. I am the one that wrote the article.

There's a really good website called People Ending Discrimination On Looks (www.pedolgroup.com) aimed at promoting individualism. There are articles on there against school uniforms. The group needs more anti-uniform people in it to make this even more effective. Sign in!

The focus should be to end school bullying. This makes the school faculty the bullies.

I did some research on the cost. Some school districts make parents buy kids from only one or two places. So, instead of paying $8.22 for a shirt from Target, you will have to pay $21.95 from a company like Land's End. Also, you will have to pay $5-$7 extra for the embroidered school logo. Please explain how this is cheaper?
By cmon

11/23/08 at 4:42 p.m.

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Last time I checked, most schools in the district had dress codes that went something like this:

Navy blue, black or tan slacks or shorts or skirts
White shirt with a collar

I'm sure that Wal mart sells white, collared shirts and navy blue slacks.

Again, if you, Nance would spend a week in the teachers' shoes, you would see that they ALREADY do dress code checks.

Cmon, man get a life...
By daftchemicals

11/23/08 at 6:07 p.m.

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So Cmon, you did not understand my post.
When school districts make MANDATORY school uniforms, a school uniform supplier is found. This takes away the decision on where to buy your clothes. Lands End is a major company involed in school uniforms. Take a look at their prices.

I agree with you Wal mart sells those things. That was my exact point.

So, now I need to "get a life" because I do not believe that we should just be sheep and roll over because some lawmaker wants to ram something down our throats without public discussion? How is that American?

BTW, my kids go to a public school. They are not required to wear a (non stained) white shirt with tan or black slacks.

There are no studies that show white capri pants or blue jeans as a hinderance to education. I wore t shirts almost every day. My daughter wearing a striped collared shirt or a dress with two colors on it will not stop her from learning where China is on a map. My kids wearing sandals will not keep them from learning the square root of 12.

Yes, teacher should do basic dress rule checks. A school should basically have "No privates showing", "No alcohol, gambling, or drugs on shirts", "No exposed belly buttons", etc. Rules like that are easily enforced. The more petty rules, the more teachers have to walk around and inspect. The last thing a school should be doing is measuring belt buckles. Doesn't happen? Then check this link:
http://www.kvue.com/news/top/stories/082...

If you love uniforms, good for you. Sen Coffin will mail you a Christmas card. He loves you.

Before telling someone to "get a life", perhaps you should take a break from King of the Hill reruns or Flavor of Love and do some homework before commenting. Check out sites like pedolgroup.com, aprod.org, or even a simple Yahoo search of all the hassles parents and teachers have had over uniforms.

Maybe you bleat in your sleep. However, I do not.
By cmon

11/23/08 at 7:26 p.m.

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I have been in districts that mandated uniforms. They DID NOT require that you purchase from a specific vendor, and allow parents to purchase from any number of sources.

The only experience I have ever had with mandatory vendors for uniforms was the Private schools. And most of them offer several vendors at several price levels, in order to serve the largest number of families.

As for your "Basic dress rules," I guess you don't mind students wearing/showing gang colors, tying bandannas around an arm or a leg, or wearing them in a specific to show allegiance. I guess you don't mind sagging pants or spaghetti straps that can be broken by unscrupulous students. I HAVE seen the effect of what someone wears and how it negatively affects the education process, when two students fight over one unknowingly wearing gang colors.

if you are naive enough to think that students and parents don't try to "keep up with the neighbors" by overspending on their kids' clothing, only to have those kids receiving free or reduced lunches,then I truly feel sorry for you. Perhaps you have been lucky enough to make it through school wearing your T shirt, and good for you. Your daughter is free to wear sandals to school-so long as the sole is thick enough to withstand stepping on a tack or glass (I guess that's one of your "petty rules"), and her dress - so long as there is a three inch length between the collar and the end of the sleeve (sorry, another"petty" rule, unless you don't mind the sight of her undergarments).

Yes, there are some districts that may abuse rules, but I don't suppose you even bothered to find out the background behind the belt buckle rule (FYI, it was to stop the practice of students wearing trendy belt buckles which concealed weapons-unless you don't mind your daughter being in a classroom with someone who feels they should have a knife at school).

So, Now that King of the hill is on, I will sit back and relax, before I have to get ready to teach your daughter tomorrow - don't forget we DO have a dress code in the district, and I take my responsibility to provide your daughter a safe and effective learning environment very seriously, and will not hesitate to Dress code if her sandals are to thin. And I hope she's not caught in the middle of a fight between students, because someone decided that green is their new gang color.
By daftchemicals

11/23/08 at 10:08 p.m.

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Like I stated, you can still have a school for "all kids wearing glasses", another one for "all redheaded kids" and yet another one for "kids with funny names", yet kids will still get teased! About being the same, kids with uniforms still get dropped off by limos (There ARE celebrities in Vegas).

Did I not mention about reasonable dress rules? Showing privates and undergarments I think we can both agree with. All the other stuff you bring up is debatable. However, I will stand up and say if my son wear a black and yellow striped shirt, a pair of jeans (with a belt, worn correctly), and decent sneakers, this will not change anyone's learning process.

Instead of telling kids they can only wear ONE kind of clothes or else they are not fit for learning, we need to be teaching acceptance of others.

What happens when a "gang" decides that a white shirt and khaki pants are the new gang colors? Why not just have the kids just come in naked? This will solve your hidden knife crisis.

Also, some schools are in rural Nevada. A school in Battle Mountain might have 29 high school students. The same rules should apply there as well?

With the thin sandals, do you measure loafers too? Some of them are just as thin as some sandals. We've seen kids get suspended for sandals-because they did not wear socks with them? Teaching fashion faux pas?

How about instead of putting yourself on a pedestal because you happen to love the uniforms (I'll try to confirm that the Senator mails you a Christmas card)...do some of the research others have done? It's obvious you feel an article of clothing will solve all the school's problems (even though I think the budget cuts are MUCH more important of an issue). Just because you are a teacher does not automatically make you the subject matter expert on my kids.

If you love uniforms good for you. We in America are taught we have freedom. Simply picking on me for not liking uniforms does not make you a better person. Bill Gates does not wear a uniform to work. Would he be even richer if he had to wear a white shirt and black pants?
By azsk8fan

11/24/08 at 6:02 a.m.

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The crap you buy at Walmart will fall apart soon enough and need to be replaced. 'Stylish' clothes are not cheap and kids won't wear anything but........ I wore uniforms all through-out school - it did NOT make me lose my own identity - kids are seriously lacking discipline these days and maybe wearing uniforms is a good place to start - it's not the whole solution for sure but it has to start somewhere - I still believe in the 'dress for success' theory and I do think that the way we are dressed does impact our approach to our job (and this is the kids' 'job')
By LT2LV

11/24/08 at 8:42 a.m.

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I went to a public school that mandated uniforms (light blue shirt, blue jeans, something you can get at Sears and WalMart for cheap). My mother liked that she didn't have to buy me an entire wardrobe of "in" clothes and I liked that I knew what I'd be wearing every day.

Every month we'd have "casual day", where whatever class wanted to raise money for a trip or dance would have us pay $1 to let us wear our own clothes. It was fun to check out what everyone was wearing that day.
By RickHLV

11/24/08 at 9:04 a.m.

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Someone please explain to me, how anyone could believe that clothing will reduce discipline problems? Uniforms will stop weapons from finding their way into schools? I guess a knife or a gun doesn't fit in a backpack? I guess some undisciplined lowlife wont get in a fight because he's wearing dockers and a collared white shirt? Dressing "more appropriately" will stop the schoolyard bully from picking on someone he see's as a vulnerable target? Discipline begins at home, and a lack thereof permeates into every aspect of the childs life. Why do we try to transfer the responsibilty of a childs discipline and behavior to someone, or something else (i.e. the school district and its staff), by making them enforce a dress code? Parents are responsible for what THEIR kids wear, NOT the teachers or school staff. Do tell, are parents nowadays so afraid of telling their kid to put on something more appropriate for school, for fear of thier kid being upset with them? Is the mentality here "My son or daughter wont be upset with ME if the School district makes them wear uniforms"? Again, another example of people NOT taking personal responsibilty, either for themselves, or their offspring. If we truly desire a reduction in discipline issues, maybe parents should be held financially responsible for the transgressions of their children more often. Let's see how fast parents would become more involved in their childrens "activities" if that were the case.
By ksand99

11/24/08 at 10:09 a.m.

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What's next? Make everyone wear the same hairstyle? All girls have to wear the same color of eyeshadow?

This is silly and unnecessary and does nothing to address our children's development and discipline.
By cmon

11/24/08 at 7:08 p.m.

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in case you didn't know, there are several public schools in the valley, which already have a mandatory dress code. Findlay requires a White collared shirt, tan or navy slacks, shorts or skirts. Parents are not required to purchase uniforms from any specific vendor, nor are they required to purchase "school logo" apparel. I think there are some out there who are taking private school dress codes and trying to scare everyone about the "Big Bad" dress code police that are just waiting to "bust your child."

then there are those who make the slippery slope argument that school uniforms will "END ALL DISCIPLINE PROBLEMS (problems, problems, problems). No sane person on earth believes this and it just makes the arguer sound stupid. Discipline problems will end when parents start parenting their children and stop worrying about what others think and do. It's laughable when the school disciplines a child for refusing to behave, only to have that child's parents threaten to sue the school. I guess that the school can't make rules that are beneficial to the well being of the students. And for every study that claims uniforms Don't help in the schools, there are 2 studies that show the opposite. I would bring up Walter Payton Prep, Northside Prep and Whitney Young High school- all public high schools with mandatory uniforms (and no preferred vendor), all which lead the state of Illinois in academic achievement, and would rival or best any school in this valley.

And Daft; if your daughter chose to wear loafers, I would expect that they, too, meet the standard for resistance to tacks, and the like. Interestingly enough, I sent a student to the dean's office just today, for wearing flip flops that did not meet the threshold. She called home, and her mother delivered the required footwear. The student then returned to class with a warning.

the bottom line is that Parents need to either parent, or let the schools do it. as a teacher, I prefer the parents be responsible. Are uniforms the answer to discipline? No. But there are many parents who feel that school uniforms would help, and have done so in many schools already. Let's find out how discipline problems are affected at the schools with dress codes and go from there. Now I have to go- the Simpsons are on.
By daftchemicals

11/25/08 at 6:14 a.m.

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LT2LV Scribble on a white tablet:

"Every month we'd have "casual day", where whatever class wanted to raise money for a trip or dance would have us pay $1 to let us wear our own clothes."

Here's a question then.

If uniforms are God's gift to education, then why is it such a privilege to have a "casual day" and not wear them in class?

Did test scores go down for the day?

Were there many fight outbreaks, truancies, write ups, or drug use that day?

Did the gang members decide this was a good day to go to school? Were they able to recruit more members by showing their clothing choices?

I am guessing none of this happened that day.

When you lose a freedom, it's almost impossible to get it back.
By Amandah

11/25/08 at 6:59 a.m.

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Wait.Your school measures sandals?Thats random.Who measures sadnals b4 going out?
My school we couldnt wear flipflops until 2 years ago.We were allowed to wear thong sandals if they were not flat.
All the hoochees wear high heels and some of them cant even walk good.
I wore heels once.Spent the rest of the day in ISS cuz I kicked one off and put my bare foot on the floor when I was waiting in the food line.How dumb is that?The teacher said I could have one shoe off for a second but my foot cant touch the floor.I said it was only for a few seconds but she said since I didnt have hose or sox on and my foot was bare I could be endangering peoples food.Weird.