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twitterLETTER TO THE EDITOR:
Does Bush get credit for lower gas prices?
Monday, Nov. 3, 2008 | 2:03 a.m.
For virtually an entire year I have listened to those on the left deride the Bush administration for its policies that produced gasoline prices that reached more than $4 a gallon.
This of course created a “crisis” in which middle class Americans were squeezed so badly they couldn’t buy food or medicine. We heard months of daily diatribes about how President Bush and his big oil buddies created it all.
I paid $2.39 for a gallon of gas Friday in Las Vegas. The silence is deafening.
Discussion: 41 comments so far…
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You know of course that you are living in a dreamworld paying $2.39 a gallon. This is less than half that of European prices. Still if you dont think you should be paying more taxes on gas, then you have to put up with a poor infrastrucure. These low oil prices is only a "time out" period, no country will continue pumping oil at these low prices, and they will eventually climb up again to the highs we saw this summer.
It only took a credit crisis, falling wages, stock market crash, and for consumers to stop spending as a result to drop demand and lower prices. Good job Bush! I wonder which candidate will continue such stupid acts? McBush in 2008.
Mr. Leonard,
I'm more than happy to give the President the credit for the lower gas prices, along with the credit for the economic collapse that brought them about.
Let this be a lesson to all you "drill, baby, drill" folks out there. Gas prices are down because demand for gasoline is down. Our problem is not, nor has it ever been, one of supply.
JohnF "Our problem is not, nor has it ever been, one of supply."
No freekin' sc8t!!!
Do you ever stop and wonder why that is so difficult for people to understand? Why is it that liberals are supposedly stupid (and or elitist) because we can see this?
When I'm driving my Hydrogen Honda in 2 years, getting an effective 90 mpg, I'm going to wonder why all the right wing brainiacs let Honda get the lead while they spent our time and money bombing Iran and marketing to drill for more oil. Just a small percentage of those resources would have allowed our car companies to be in the lead instead, and sell the damn things to the whole planet. Instead, once again, it's the Japanese who will profit.
Good thing they build at least some of those cars here!
we're getting close to an election - the same thing happened a couple years back near an election...let's see what happens afterward.... I understand Bush's home state is quite low in price - even lower than Nevada.. hmmm. maybe because he's finally going home huh?
Obama has promised to end reliance on foreign oil.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/basics/quickoil.h...
Today, the USA imports 10 million barrels a day to support 20 million barrels a day consumption.
By 2012, Obama should have made significant progress in reducing 50% dependence on foreign oil if he wants to fulfill his promise.
I'm irritated that some people choose to understand supply and demand when it suits them and ignore supply and demand when it does not.
Price goes up in the summer because the supply is lower than the quantity demanded. So if there was more supply price would probably be lower in the winter and the summer but they would not be equal.
JohnEVegas....government doesn't invent this crap. But government incentives for certain green projects often divert resources from creating profitable and better technology in the future. The US has been pumping money into ethanol to the detriment of everything else. Now its trying to pump money into electric cars, hybrids, and hydrogen vehicles to the detrement of everything else.
Stop getting government invovled.
"...government doesn't invent this crap."
Sure they do silly boy! What do you think science is all about? Free enterprise solves much. I agree. But big problems sometimes need huge investments to solve, that where you and I step in. Collectively, the investment is minuscule and the benefit is potentially incalculable.
"Now its trying to pump money into electric cars, hybrids, and hydrogen vehicles to the detrement of everything else."
What's this elusive "everything else" you speak of?
The "everything else" is public transportation. Private ownership of anything, including cars, is wrong so far as the extreme left is concerned. Everyone should be able to take a bus to work.
No thank you. I prefer to drive my own car, or car-pool when it makes sense. My time is valuable, as well as my freedom to go where and when I want to.
Yes, we need better means of propulson for vehicles. And it is not wrong to provide transportation for people to earn a living if they can not afford it otherwise. But saying that public transportation should be the primay means of travel for all people is just another aspect of socialism carried to extremes, and borders on true communism where the government owns the means of production, or transportation in this case.
"Private ownership of anything, including cars, is wrong so far as the extreme left is concerned."
Would you happen to have a citation for that?
It is true that the government has been pouring money into corn Ethanol to benefit large corporate farming.
They have placed high tarriffs on Ethanol imports to protect those large corporate interests, too.
Cars that run on E85 outside of the corn belt in the midwest are not economical.
E85 is expensive to ship outside of the corn belt. On top of that, it takes a lot of energy to produce corn e85 so that radically reduces its "save the planet" payout.
E85 gets 30% worse gas mileage than regular gas but it is only 20% cheaper outside the corn belt.
E85 car cost more than a regular gas car.
It is a loser econonmically unless the tariffs get dropped on Ethanol.
This is a good example of the government doing a poor job picking winners and losers.
Solar and wind are equally very poor economic choices but we are going to dive right into that head first. The bring new Solar One plant southeast of Vegas generates power at 2.45x the current price of energy and it gets a ton in Federal tax cuts.
Most solar and wind farms do not generate 24/7 reliable energy. That means we have to duplicate capacity from 24/7 reliable energy sources, like coal, natural gas and nuclear to kick in when the sun does not shine or the wind does not blow. That is doubles the fixed cost of energy. The ones that can store energy, like Solar One, are very expensive farms.
On top of that solar and wind farms are far away and in remote arears. That requires billions of dollars to build expensive high power transmission lines to support those farms.
If you notice the energy companies are not jumping up and down to build wind and solar farms unless then get tons of tax breaks from federal and state sources.
In about 10-15 years, our energy system will be very pricey and probably will not have the capacity to support our economy. Except your power bill to at least double and probably expect some brown/black outs during the hot summer months. I am sure the Democrats will do another "Who me?" act then too.
Jim, our power bills have ALREADY doubled in the past seven years and how much has been allocated to alternative fuels during that same period? (And please please PLEASE give me access to that crystal ball of yours.)
As for your screed about E85, is there any chance on Earth that you have a reputable source for any of that? I'm particularly interested in these little gems:
"E85 gets 30% worse gas mileage than regular gas but it is only 20% cheaper outside the corn belt.
E85 car cost more than a regular gas car."
http://www.cleanairtrust.org/E85-Gas-Mil...
"Ethanol only has 30.40 energy content, which yields about 34% less gas mileage than gasoline"
At the Family Express on West Ann Road (636-1553)
Reg = $2.66
E85 = $2.59
The e85 is only 3% cheaper.
Chevy Tahoe 2009 Kelly Blue book
Regular $37,859.00
E85 Flexfuel $40,624.00
So e85 for Las Vegans is a loser economically.
Corn 85 takes a lots of energy to make so that reduces its "save the planet" value. Some say that it takes more energy to produce corn E85 then the energy generated from E85.
Corn 85 makes the cost of all corn based or related (like beef, pork) food more expensive across the planet.
This is a clear example of the government making poor choices that damage the economy.
JohnEVegas, anything else is whatever we haven't thought of yet.
For example. Lets say the government gives a $50,000 tax credit for electric cars.
1) Electric cars would become very popular (and sadly their price would probably increase to $50,000 very swiftly but that is another story).
Companies start producing lots of electric cars because its very profitable.
Other alternative energies are dropped, it just makes no senese with this much government subsidies.
Electric cars require, ta da, electricity to power. Electricity is generated mostly by coal plants in America. Since we hate Nuke power in America we'll need more coal (sorry, but solar and wind won't produce enough electricity to power our homes and thus our cars...unless we poured billions more into subsidies for those).
In that case, Americans would have even fewer dollars to spend on other things.
So assuming that we could stop Co2 emissions (very unlikely) we'd be fairly poor and wouldn't have much to spend on anything else.
Another problem in and of itself.
jfinance,
I should note that ethenol subsidies are so large farmers are slicing down unused land to produce corn. Thus killing CO2 eating trees.
Making matters worse is the fact that sugar based ethenol is even better than corn so the Rainforest is coming down in South America...
all in the name of saving the planet.
That is what I'm talking about JohnEVegas...unintended consquences.
Life is more than just 2 dimensions. We have to think about primary effects and secondary and third tier effects of policies.
Obama wants to give $7,000 tax credits for the new plug-in Chevy Volt which is projected to cost $45,000 to $50,000 a pop.
Of course, this does not make any sense on any level. The tax credit is not paid for which means it is a loan that your children will pay off via deficit spending.
Volt will be a tiny car with no thrills. It will take 5 to 8 hours to re-charge. It will have a limit of about 200 miles which is not helpful on long trips. It will get around 50 miles per gallon.
Even with the $7,000 tax credit the Volt is not a economic winner for those that buy it. One can buy a small car for around $25,000 that has around 35 miles per gallon and come out far ahead moneywise and that is even if gas prices were at $6 a gallon.
If a large portion of car drivers went out and purchased Volts then the electric grid does not have the capacity to recharge all those cars.
We will have to spend a massive amount on new electrical plants. Not to burst the grennies bubbles, because Solar and Wind are not 24/7 reliable sources of energy, no country on the planet is expecting more than 20% of its mix can come from solar and wind.
The Democrats are leading us down a road of a energy policy that will choke our economy with higher energy prices and limited capacity. I am sure when that happens they will say, "Who me?"
In 1993 as I was helping to create some of the first ecommerce systems used on the internet. I had the good fortune to witness a high speed connection to the net on a computer that could run a browser really well. It blew me away, and I could see right away that everyone would want it what I was looking at.
I told my boss, in 5 years everyone will have this. In 10 years, we will buy most anything we can off the internet. This may eventually replace television.
Without the push from the government to commercialize the net, it would have taken much longer. But look where we are.
I understand what you are saying nance. But I do not see things in absolutes. There are so many unknowns and unpredictables. You want solid data, and in my experience the future does not work that way. I'm up for the risks, and I'm glad we are doing it. Assuming the whole Obama thing tomorrow.
I missed that part where the government pushed to commercialized the net.
Did that happen in vitural world?
I think the government keep its hands to itself and did not interfere with the natural market driven commercialization of the net. That is a good thing.
Thanks for the link, Jim. I'll take a look at it.
Ethanol at the stations in my area is on average .20-.30 less than regular unleaded. My hubby bought a used flex-fuel minivan a couple of years ago and he's been buying E85 for at least the past year. He hasn't noticed a difference in fuel economy.
My car isn't flex fuel but it gets excellent mileage so I'm not very concerned about it. Besides, I don't drive very far to my office and I combine my errands so I don't have to keep going out and going out and going out. I've done that since I moved here, mostly because I wasn't used to having to drive everywhere I want to go. In fact, I never owned a car until I moved out here. Mass transit in NYC is one of the best systems in the US. (And I miss it.)
As to the Internet: I admittedly don't have a crystal ball, and I certainly don't have one that goes back in time, but if I had to guess (I do) you were probably screeching bloody hell about Al Gore and "inventing the Internet".
Google. Learn. The government DID have a (rather large) hand in it, though much if not most of the "commercialization" was naturally borne out of the medium. Google "ARPANET" to see the (humble) beginnings of the Internet.
The usual mighty collection of negative posts who still believe that anything other than fossil fueled energy will be too expensive, will make my bills far too expensive, this and that wont work, bla bla bla.
If the majority of the USA citizens think like this, then there will never be change in the USA.
I suppose the excuse today is that the economy is weak and we cant afford to make huge changes, so when can you make changes. Never is what I read in these posts.
Nance - "Did that happen in vitural world?"
As I said, I was there when it happened. It was called The High Performance Computing and Communication Act of 1991.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Perfor...
I never understood why you righties turned this into a negative talking point for Gore. This was a wonderful thing.
I'm hoping for more this time around too. I've been working with new green technologies and plan to capitolize the push. Have you seen the progress that's being made with High Output LEDs? Especially CREE chips. Amazing stuff. You'll be buying stuff made with these from people like me very soon.
HELLO ....... "boftx" ...... I asked you for a citation for your claim "Private ownership of anything, including cars, is wrong so far as the extreme left is concerned."
I'm still waiting ........
You make it so easy for them, johnevegas. And still they don't get it.
My IT career was born in 1992 ..... oh how I remember the early days of the Internet and the wonder and excitement one felt when one could just "log on" to find information. (And the early laptops ... I was getting on the 'net with a 75mhz processor & a dial-up connection. And that was near top-of-the-line!)
Now I sit here wondering what I did in the days before that. LOL.
Patricia "As to the Internet: I admittedly don't have a crystal ball, and I certainly don't have one that goes back in time, but if I had to guess (I do) you were probably screeching bloody hell about Al Gore and "inventing the Internet"."
Ironic we would post about the same thing. I sit here in shock at the denial. It's like, "nance, see that image on your screen with the pretty pictures and words?" Hello??? He probably thinks Bill Gates did it, or that Apple guy.
I'm convinced that capitulation does not exist in his vocabulary. How can you honestly say the things he does when you don't have the honor to admit when you are wrong, about anything?
"Now I sit here wondering what I did in the days before that. LOL."
No kidding!
I ran bulletin boards in pre-net days. PC-Board and RBBS-PC from about 1985 until 1992, then the web happened and that was the end of that. Users would dial in to my computer directly to post messages and exchange files, up to three at a time. It ran on top of MS-DOS with DesqView for the multitasking. Ring any bells?
Oh nance, you've been pwned. In case you are unable to recognized that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pwn
I used a BB back in 1985/1986 via Red Ryder through the original Macintosh. I worked for the American Society of Magazine Photographers at the time and we were cutting edge!
Oh how fun that was!
In early 1992, the IT consulting firm where I worked was part of the DICE BB thanks to my recommendation. We stayed there until MonsterBoard (it's ORIGINAL) name came along and the rest as they say is history. I told them to stay with DICE (hell, I told them to BUY DICE), but alas ... I was overruled.
DICE was sold a couple of years later for millions. I remember the couple who ran it out of their basement ... Diane (?) and I forget her husband's name -- really nice people.
Oh the memories :)
JohnVegas....I recommend that you do not quote Wikipedia. Most bloggers get laughed at for doing that.
Why? Because any idiot can put crap into a Wikipedia post.
Even in your Wikipedia citation sources, it says that Gore's bill perhaps only speed up the eventual programming of a decent web browser by only by 2 to 3 years. There were other private versions in play before the government version.
It was not until a private companies, 1 to 2 years later, developed more robust versions over the government version did a web browser usage truly took off.
The tons of money that actually commercialized the internet came from private sources.
The core components of the Internet boom all came from private sources....IP, HTML, Windows IE, hardware (services and connectivity) all came from private sources.
We can give the bill credit for helping some in a research and development role but the most important contribution to the Interent boom by the government was that it decided to let the Internet boom go mainly untaxed and unregulated and it did not try to pick winners and losers by saying this browser or this protocol was superior (Thank God).
That is the same path that should be followed in Solar, Wind and the developed of the electric car. The government should invest in R $ D but it should not pick winners and losers by throwing tons of taxpayers cash to support poorly developed technologies in actual operation like it is doing with with corn E85 and forcing utilities to buy overpriced inefficient Wind and Solar farm energy and by giving Solar and Wind tons of taxpayer's cash.
Mac 11, 1440 modem, I'd leave the thing running all night trying to do a download and praying it would stay connected. Often it did not. But damn, it was exciting stuff. Oh yea, the good old days!
OMG ... I had forgotten leaving it on all night HOPING that the connection would remain & the download would complete. Of course it never did.
LOL! All-night downloads that now take us minutes :)
The good ol days, Yes I remember the BBS's and my commodore 64 computer, XT, AT, and on up. I still have every DOS from 1.0 on up and each generation of computer.
I also remember a campaign promise from Clinton/Gore '92 to open the information super highway (internet) to the public. The 'internet' had been used for decades within the major universitivies and military. Then Windows 95 caused the explosion in the Internet when they included an easy to use web browser with the operating system.
I think the first BBS I ran was on a clone XT running at 10mhz. A real steamer, if you know what I mean.
Modems? OMG! Started with U.S. Robotics 2400s. Yup, 2400 bps. All....night....downloads....and words from the remote bulletin board scrolling slowly left to right across the screen and then wrapping down line by line. Amber was my fav! Green was so common. :)
The technically proficient sysops (eh..hemm...) would use ANSI codes to control color and screen location, once we had the 256 colors. Ooh! Neeto!!!
I wonder how many people on this website realize what really went into the technology they take for granted. Having been there selling PC/XTs in 1984, I can tell you, it is nothing less than astounding. The global impact is truly incalculable at this point.
I thank Al Gore for his insight. Every single day. Though he did not invent the Intertubes (did a repug say that?) he did see the light. I think the Intertubes guy is going to jail in Alaska or something. I like Al better than that guy anyway. Not surprised to find out he's a crook. He always looked like a guy who would think computers were possessed or something. Al just looks like a smart boring guy.
Anyone remember what "Control K D" does? How about Visicalc? Solitaire or Tetris, which did you prefer?
nance, you didn't mention Marc Andreessen that I saw. He had a little bit to do with it. You might want to read his opinion about the bill.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Andree...
Now I know this is Wiki again, but we'll just have to agree that this collective knowledge holds at least some value, even if you don't like what it says. Sorry. You're kinda outta sync with the world there. Besides, this is exactly how I remember Marc's history. In case that holds any weight whatsoever with you.
Another wikipedia citation....LOL
Marc was smart.
Marc started a private company and created a better version of a web browser using private funds that soon started the commercialization of the internet.
Smart guy.......
That's your history for Marc? Wow! You really don't know do you?
Here, maybe this will help...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA3WxjplK...
I guess you did not know that Marc started the Netscape company which truly started the commercialization of the Internet.
When Mosiac was in the governments hand it did not go that far.
Only once, Marc wrote a newer version (one year later) in his private Netscape company did it start to get wide web usage.
Nance - Thanks for the incorrect history. Nice try.
Have a good day.
Marc did not start Netscape......wow...I guess somebody needs to tell him.
Are you telling me that government Mosiac open the flood gates to PC web users?
I think only a few thousand (probably not even that many)geeks were using the government Mosiac.
I believe it was NetScape was the first wide usage of Web browser on the internet.
I never said that Nance. He and Jim Price (money man) started it together, but that's not where your story is off.
1. Mosaic was invented by Marc Andreseen at NCSA. He did it by combining the hyper-text linking he saw in a Apple database program (name escapes me) along with a common internet communication protocol. The idea was to link documents together to make navigating and cross referencing them easier. This was a Gov't backed project supported by the bill I mentioned.
2. No "flood gates" to open at the time nance. I was paying for lease lines from building to building. No Arpa where I worked until the Gov't backed build-out. Schools, science institutions, key communications companies (like mine, PacTel) and network research and development entities.
3. AFTER those flood gates came into existence, Netscape did, then I.E. did. Not before. Then the net (www) we now know came to be.
I know you struggle with the government thing. But your dislike doesn't change history. No bucks, no Buck Rogers. That's the way it is, and we are all happy about it. Well, except you I guess.
I long for the old days. No real security needed. Domains like pizza.com and vegas.com were available at $17.00 per year. Wish I had seen that part!
Anyway, Al Gore invented the internet. He did a good job too. Deal with it. :)
I think you got history all screwed up.
The fundgates to the Internet did not happen until the private money started to fund the billions to buildout the new bandwidth starting during the mid 1990's and on.
Before that point, generally only government related entites got access to the Internet.
"Before that point, generally only government related entites got access to the Internet."
PacTel Cellular. 1990/93. Got invited to connect thanks to Al Gore's Bill. We did. It changed everything. Made initial wireless data over amps cellular possible too. I did that as well. I was the first person on the planet to use it. Is that cool or what?
Did you read that BBS stuff I posted? That experience happened to translate directly to the issues of sending data over analog cellular. I just happened to be an expert because of my hobbies. Happenstance. Right talent at the right time. You use some of what I helped to create every day.
Anyway, I was there for history, dude. Believe whatever you like. I'm off to watch some more history right now.
STAY DOWN!!! :)
Later.