Friday, May 23, 2008 | 2 a.m.
Sun Archives
- Immigrants boost economy — but how much? (4-14-2008)
- Vegas Exodus (4-06-2008)
- LV industries worry flow of immigrants will dry up (6-07-2007)
If Nevada’s undocumented workers left tomorrow, the state would lose tens of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars, according to the first report to quantify the impact.
The study, from the Houston-based Americans for Immigration Reform, estimates 45,000 jobs would be lost over time and $9.6 billion would no longer circulate through Nevada’s economy each year.
The report is particularly timely because something like the posited scenario — losing tens of thousands of workers — may well be occurring in the Las Vegas Valley. In an April 6 story, the Sun reported that an estimated 60 percent to 80 percent of the valley’s residential construction workers are illegal immigrants. With the downturn in the new housing market, tens of thousands of immigrants have lost jobs and are no longer feeding as much money into the local economy. Many are leaving the area.
Because these workers live and work under the radar, economists did not foresee the effects of their lost wages and spending on state revenue; some say more accurate information could have helped the state plan better and avoid some of its current shortfalls.
Nearly two years ago, Assemblyman Moises Denis, D-Las Vegas, unsuccessfully called for a study calculating the effect of illegal immigrants on Nevada’s economy. He says the Texas group’s effort is “a good start.”
The report’s conclusions about Nevada “don’t surprise me,” Denis says. “I don’t think it’s inflated.”
A colleague of his, state Sen. Bob Beers, isn’t so sure. “What’s missing,” Beers says, “is an attempt to quantify the costs to society and government” of the illegal immigrant population. He points to the school system as an example, with its large population of students learning English as a second language.
The Perryman Group, a Texas company with 30 years in economic research, conducted the study. Ray Perryman, the company’s president, says his report does try to account for the costs Beers cites.
Perryman allows that his outfit doesn’t have access to each state’s tax or social service records, but says he uses data gathered in other studies, including one the state of Texas did, for a model that includes those costs. The report estimates that Nevada in 2007 had 130,000 undocumented immigrants in its workforce, or 9 percent of its total number of workers, the fourth-highest percentage in the nation behind Arizona, California and Texas.
The study says the United States would eventually lose 2.8 million jobs and $551 billion in annual spending without undocumented workers — not only the jobs held by those workers but jobs lost in other industries as losses rippled through the economy. The state and national figures cited take into account adjustments the economy would make, over time, in the absence of illegal immigrants, the report’s authors say.
Maureen Kilkenny, a professor in the resource economics department at the University of Nevada, Reno, wonders whether Perryman’s work doesn’t reflect the interests of the businesses in the group, Americans for Immigration Reform, which paid Perryman to do the work.
She says the report doesn’t factor into its calculations the difference between wages offered undocumented workers in sectors such as construction and services and what would be paid to legal workers in those sectors.
“The study looks only at the interests of employers ... who can get away with hiring workers at a lower cost,” Kilkenny says.
Beers, somewhat similarly, thinks the study is an example of “when you start on a mission to conclude something, you usually get there.”
Beto Cardenas, counsel to the Houston-based group and spokesman for the report, says its conclusions are based on facts, and that he welcomes similar studies with different conclusions. Perryman says his group’s reputation precedes this report and that he “started with a blank piece of a paper and went from there.”
The study took about six months and cost about $100,000, Perryman says.
Denis says Nevada needs to have its own version. “We need to be worried in Nevada how we handle this issue. We depend on these workers and ... if we don’t have an opportunity to bring in more workers in the future, it is going to have an impact.”

Looks like they didn't factor in the money tax payers lose because of illegal immigration. Draining public funds, creating unfair competition for jobs with America’s least prepared workers and thereby lowering wages and working conditions, imposing unwanted strains on services designed to provide assistance to Americans, facilitating criminals, emergency medical care, free education, undermining legal immigration, etc. Not to mention using up alot of our resources. Do you think the high demand for oil has anything to with 13 million illegal aliens in this country? Think about that when you pay 5 bucks a gallon at the pump.
These illegals are stealing jobs that legal Americans would do.
My opinion on this topic is different. I look at this study as a good start. While I don't normally agree with Sen. Beers, I do agree that you can make numbers do what you want and that you usually find what you are looking for.
First, we need to enforce the laws on the books when it comes to immigration. Second, we need to ensure that businesses are only hiring legal workers. Finally, put pressure (other than NAFTA and other trade agreements) on our Latin American neighbors to improve their economies so the need to emigrate is not there.
The immigration debate in the US has not changed in 200 years. The hatred is always directed at those individuals that will do work for less money. We really haven't come much further than "No Irish Need Apply."
I disagree with the proposition that these jobs are jobs that legal Americans want to do. Who wants to do the work that many of these "illegals" are doing? The reason they have jobs is that everyday Americans don't want to do these jobs.
Let's assume the numbers are correct. Of the 45,000 jobs , how many are being paid under the table, like the ones passing out all of the trash on LV BLVD? Of the remainder, how many are sending the monies back to their families in their country of origin? With current unemployment at 5%, there are approximately 100,000 unemployed in clark county, put our leagl residents to work. Lets send the Illegal immirgates back to there own country so they can fix their own problems. Also, why are illegal immigrates called undocumented workers, when drug dealers are not called unlicensed Pharmacists?
Another suggestion.
Since the illegal immigrates, not undocmented workers, are making billions of dollars here in NV, make all of them pay for their medical and childbirth costs at UMC, all the damages caused by accidents while having no insurance, etc and then send them back
"Illegal immigrants contribute billions to state"
Now how about a report telling us what they cost?
Numbers work both ways and it appears we don't have all the numbers here.
How much would the school district save if all the Illegal Immigrants went home and took their kids with them? Would we need more tax money to pay teachers if we had less students or do we have enough money in the budget once all the Illegals are gone?
And I would just love to know who the Houston-based Americans for Immigration Reform is. Probably another Bush Cheney offshoot bullcrap company.
Let's talk about how much taxpayers would save by getting these non-english kids OUT of our schools! Maybe then we could pay teachers what they are worth, not have to build new schools continually and have only 30 children, all english speaking, in the classrooms. Sounds like PARADISE doesn't it?
Go to their website. Here is a paste from the site:
http://www.americansforimmigrationreform...
Americans for Immigration Reform
Americans for Immigration Reform was founded by diverse group of Americans concerned about the destructive measures being taken or considered related to immigration and its impact on the business community, employees and consumers.
Obviously a site put together by those that do not speak english well. Notice the errors in the first sentence???
It seems like we have a lot of hate and discrimination towards illegals here in Vegas... interesting. I don't know if to be more concerned of the impact this analysis causes on the economy or the psychos that are running around with hate and anger towards other human beings.
Give it up, you don't want to be standing in 100 degree weather 8 hrs a day picking up leaves or passing out flyers on the strip for lousy pay, no one is taking your job away. The reason some people don't have jobs is because they don't want to sacrife themselves for hard work and get low pay. They rather not have a job at all, and collect unemployment, which we end up paying for anyway. So, in conclusion, we are all resposible for what is happening in our economy right now.
The "study" described in todays Sun is profoundly flawed. California, Nevada, Arizona, Texas and Florida are not going to "lose" tens of thousands of jobs because illegal aliens are leaving. Some of the jobs are disappearing because of the bad economy. Other jobs are now "open" to American citizens and others legally residing in the state.
I'd much prefer to rely on the statistically accurate study which the State of California prepared, and America's most famous immigrant Arnold Schwartznegger acknowledged was fair and accurate: Illegal aliens are paid under the table. They do not pay Federal income tax. They do not pay California income tax. They do not pay Federal social security tax. The do not pay Federal medicare tax. They do not pay state disability tax. They do not pay child support for the thousands of children they father, and who go on the AFDC rolls of our states. The employers of illegal aliens do not pay State Disability insurance premiums for illegal aliens who get hurt on the job and whose medical bills are paid by the state disability fund and who receive disability checks despite their illegal status. The illegal aliens' employers do not pay the employers' share of social security taxes. Its likely that the illegal aliens employers may not even pay income tax on the revenue generated by their labor. And, of course, there are the millions of dollars of emergency room bills that are uncollectible from illegal aliens whose costs are passed through to American insurance companies and people who do pay their own hospital bills.
The State of California has calculated that the presence of working illegal aliens in California COSTS the taxpayers of the State ONE BILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR.
Frankly, on such a politically charged issue, in a state with such a huge Hispanic American population, I suspect California's calculations understate the true cost of illegal alien employment to California taxpayers. I bet it's more than ONE BILLION DOLLARS a year.
I'm sure the State of California would be glad to share its academically proper method of statistical calculation with any other state which would like to calculate the cost of illegal aliens in their own state.
As to the "money the illegal aliens contribute to our economy", if those jobs were held by Americans or legal residents, I'm sure those people would spend 100% of it here, and not be shipping billions of dollars to Mexico and other countries.
The study quoted by the Sun is simply a self-serving fairy tale created by a consultant hired by companies who profit from paying illegal aliens "under the table" or in a very few cases paying them less than a living wage.
Seems to me the money illegal’s pour into the economy is about what they take out. Any extra money they send back to Mexico. They do not root themselves in this community, invest in this country or pay for the infrastructure here.
The difference between the illegal’s here now and the ones in the past is simple. Past immigrants came here forever, not for a few years to make some money and go back home like now. Past immigrants had pride in the US and assimilated into our country and melted themselves into a bigger pot, not ostracizing themselves and not even learning how to communicate with any of us. Today’s illegals don’t care to learn English, our history or add anything to it, they simply come here to take away resources to their homeland and expect us to give them everything in their native culture. This is why most people have little patience for them.
I have nothing but the upmost respect for an immigrant who works hard and becomes part of society, but I also have 0 respect for an immigrant who comes here, doesn’t immerse themselves in our country, and is only here for the short period of time where they can siphon off as much money to take back to their homeland. Back in my hometown there are a lot of Indians’, and they all learn English, are hard working and friendly. They have their own culture, but are readily open to share it with you. They respect America and lay the seeds for themselves long term.
The US was slammed with a wave of illegal immigrates. That caused tremendous growth of enrollment in our public schools which I think caused many problems for the school system.
This year illegal immigration is much lower than in previous years.
In turn, school enrollment growth is much lower in Nevada than in previous years.
This has given our school system a much desired catch-its-breath period.
Out of control school growth hurts education.
Posted by GOD
"... AND THE GAINS...
1) LOWER WAITING TIMES AT HOSPITALS, CLINICS, ETC.
2) LESS FOR CAR INSURANCE FOR INSURED MOTORISTS.
3) LESS FOR HEALTH INSURANCE.
4) LESS FOR CITY INFRASTRUCTURE.
5) LESS MONEY NEEDED FOR WELFARE AND CITY, STATE, AND GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS.
6) MORE JOBS FOR AMERICANS."
I'd like to see some data to back that up. And as far as the under the table pay thing goes: American's don't get paid under the table? When I was first in college, my friend's Dad had a construction company and paid me to help him out on jobs. I got $10/hr UNDER THE TABLE. I paid no taxes on that.
As far as the article goes, they said it helps Nevada, not the country as a whole. Being that we don't pay state income taxes, the only thing that we're missing is Medicare payments, tax-wise. Illegal immigrants won't be getting social security. The Medicare thing is an issue, which is why I'm for a consumption based tax system.
Illegal labor does help NV's economy. I work retail in Reno/Sparks and I get lots of undocumented workers coming to buy computers and TV's and the like. They usually buy stuff here, and send it back to Mexico. The more contractors save on labor, the more they have. They don't have to cover these people for workers comp if something happens. It's more money in contractor's pockets.
The problem lies within our tax system. We could have lots of new revenue if we had the Fair Tax. But either way, Illegal immigrants are good for America as a whole. If you were a businessperson, wouldn't you hire illegal labor? I would. I outsource my website and software creation to India, because financially it makes more sense. So instead of complaining about it, do something other than snipe about how they're taking your jobs.
It's good to see Xenophobia is alive and well in southern Nevada.
Call it hate, call it Xenophobia. I say it is the average citizen who is tired of seeing only hispanics paying for groceries with food stamps, who pound our schools with kids that do not speak english, who have child after child on the dime of the rest of us. They cost us too much money and do not contribute much.
I have nothing against Hispanics that enter the country legally and assimilate themselves by learning english, speaking english withtheir children and get work and do not rely on social benefits.
Juice, since illegals aren't eligible for food stamps, is it a race issue? You just don't like Hispanics?
And they do cost a lot of money, but study after study shows they contribute more than they take. The Social Security Administration counts on billions of dollars of surplus from gray area deductions. Not to mention the billions in taxes they pay and never see benefits for.
So take it away and see what happens. You think our current billion dollar shortage is bad? Wait and see.
"... AND THE GAINS...
1) LOWER WAITING TIMES AT HOSPITALS, CLINICS, ETC.
2) LESS FOR CAR INSURANCE FOR INSURED MOTORISTS.
3) LESS FOR HEALTH INSURANCE.
4) LESS FOR CITY INFRASTRUCTURE.
5) LESS MONEY NEEDED FOR WELFARE AND CITY, STATE, AND GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS.
6) MORE JOBS FOR AMERICANS.
7) AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, NOT HAVING TO DIAL "1" FOR ENGLISH."
All of these problems (with the exception of English and "city infrastructure) would be solved with sensible and responsible reform of the immigration program. Best part about it, the short-sighted, fiscally irresponsible deportations wouldn't have to occur.
Up here in the frozen wastes of Wisconsin we have the same problem but the costs also include the legals. It's very common to see a family of immigrants with 5 or 6 kids. We had to build a new grade school and institute programs to teach english. The cost of our health insurance went wild when my company started hiring immigrants. A friend of mine works security at a 24 hr clinic and says every night they fill up with non paying illegals which by law must be treated. Many of the hospitals in the border regions of the southwest are on the verge of bankruptcy because of illegals. The largest population segment in California jails is hispanic, legal or not. We talk about national security, yet up here 2000 miles from the border we have "coyote drops" that are so well organized that the illegals get picked up almost immediately by locals after being dropped by the long haulers so the police can't respond in time. We should be alarmed by how organized they are. Let's also stop this garbage about racist Americans. We have had Hispanics in my area since before I was born, and I'm retired. Many of these people have been my friends. But many of them are racist and not afraid to show it. They go out of their way to anger and offend you and nothing can be done about it without being called a racist. I have worked with them for years and can honestly say they will not work any harder than they have to. They are not stupid, but they will not expend any brainpower to get a job done. Management thinks it's because they are stupid immigrants but in actuality they do it because they hate us and it gets them out of doing work and they laugh at us. The white people are expected to give 200 percent. You call us racist because we want to see them go back home and take their attitude with them. Walk a mile in our shoes and let's see what your attitude would be.
"I have nothing against Hispanics that enter the country legally and assimilate themselves by learning english, speaking english withtheir children and get work and do not rely on social benefits."
Land of the free, home of the brave? Not with your dictates, I see. Why are the Republicans so virulently anti-Libertarian? They scream and scream about having less government, but then turn around and want said government to enforce HOW PARENTS CHOOSE TO SPEAK TO THEIR CHILDREN.
Neither government, state nor local, has a compelling interest in enforcing a language mandate. Under what authority should they enforce this law?
I just wish I could figure out what the problem is. No one can explain it to me. Why do you care what language someone speaks? Why do you think your language is superior? Why do you think the founding fathers chose not to address a national language?
As for the so-called burden imposed by undocumented workers, one should look at the 2006 report by the Texas State Comptroller, who completed a study and found that the State of Texas profited from undocumented workers. On balance, the state earned 150 million dollars more in revenue than it expended in services for undocumented workers.
In other words, she found that illegal immigrants are paying for our health care and social services, not the other way around. So the results of the study commissioned by the Texas comptroller mirrored the results of the study in this report.
My ancestors came here to be Americans and learned English right away. Bullcrap! Those who rail against the illegal immigrants say how their ancestors came here legally. Of course they were legal there were no laws back then. Immigration laws did not come into being until the Eastern and Southern Europeans started to come here in large numbers and then the laws were hatched because they were members of the "Pope's Army", aka Catholic, coming to invade America. White Protestants did not like this. The Eastern and Southern Europeans were considered "BLACK" and had to work the way up the social ladder. There were German language newspapers in this country into the 1930's, that is assimilation?
A 'study' from a pro-amnesty group? No bias there.
Why would 'hard-working' people need the America taxpayers to feed their children?
http://www.fns.usda.gov/cga/FactSheets/r...
In FY 2006, USDA spent nearly $5.1 billion to serve about 8.2 million WIC participants. Hispanics represent the largest racial/ethnic group in the WIC Program. In 2004, about 39 percent of those enrolled in WIC were of Hispanic origin. Approximately 3/4 of the Hispanic infants born in the United States participate in WIC.
Illegals take good jobs, like construction jobs, from those young people that are entering the job market.
Young black males are getting jobs robbed from them.
Any nation that is unwilling to stand up and exert it's right to determine who enters the country, deserves what it gets. The Roman Empire fell for a variety of reasons. An important reason was that they became a non-breeding society that could not find people to manage farmlands, much less work them. Wake up America! Can we really be this stupid!
What laws can you and I break here in America? Of course none. I don't like two sets of rules. One for us and one for the special race,hispanics.They do not pay taxes, in fact with the earned income tax credit the get money back.Orange county spent 400 million dollars in one year on foodstamps,WIC,HUD housing,Medicaid etc. in one year on foreign nationals from Mexico. Thats money that our children could use for education,clean water,food,good roads and bridges ,good hospitals.etc.They need to stay in their country and march for their "rights" there.The American people are tired of being abused....
Talking about how much money the illegals bring into the State is kind of like someone spending $500 in a casino, losing it, and then hitting a $100.00 jackpot - they walk about claiming they "WON" a hundred bucks when in reality they lost $400.00
Illegals are a dredge on our society and costing us more than just the almighty dollar.
If the approximatly 5% unemployment rate is applied to a workforce of perhaps 200 million people, then there may be 7-10 million citizens meeting the unemployment criteria of actively seeking work. Not all are construction or landscape workers, or experienced apple, lettuce, or orange pickers, or domestics for the entertainment industry. But if paid a living wage, I suspect they would determine it was worth their while to migrate to Nevada or elsewhere where they would begin or learn new work capabilities. If Nevada's industries recruited and encouraged such folks, they might make a few millions less than by employing illegals willing to work for dirt cheap wages, but these industries needs for workers would be satisfied. And the fruits of their labors would then be plowed back into the economy for the benefit of citizens rather than those from elsewhere who are not here legitimately.
How can anything illegal be good for a country? If that was the case why did the authorities crack down on the mob. Afterall they started Vegas, the numbers (lottery) etc and other enterprises which have since become legalized. Truth is, under the letter of the law illegal is illegal.So it leads me to believe, political vote snatchers are afoot.
The comments on this page are a real good example of how the anti-illegal folks really fail to use common sense and logic.
Take dharc as an example. He believes that illegals are getting an earned income credit from the government. I had a good laugh over that one. I'd like him to produce just one illegal who strolls down to the post office, fills out a 1040 and mails it in on tax day. Just one...
by god suggests that people dont hire illegal immigrants..b/c its against the law....well your wrong and need to do your h.w. on this topic because people do hire immigrants its becuase theyre illegal people take advantage of them and are able to manipulate how much they get payed as opposed to how much a resident or citizen would get payed...only making the person who has hired undocumented workers more wealthy...lets just put it this way hypethetically speaking "hiring immigrants for low pay is genius because i would get the rest of the profit that i should be paying them but wont because they're illegal" unfortunately this in a way relates to slavery..."hard work for basically nothing" no exaclty fair now is it...besides that many immigrants come here to begin a new life anyways the declaration of independance states that "everyone is intiled to life liberty and a persuit of happiness" so why cant immigrants do so their human like anyone else...besides immigrants dont immigrate to the us to steal jobs they only do it to escape poverty just as my mom did and my father...and now more and more are migrating because the communities and politics have been and maybe still are extremely corrupted by drug dealers and gangs which claim turfs...and is life threatening and people want to escap from it my, uncles friend was murdered for saying something and he was shot right through his mouth too and the wort part is, i met him and to ivision that image is really horriying and unbelievable...it almost feels like the actions that take place in a horror movie has plunged its chaos into reality..besides if immigrants were granted recidency more ifficiently many crimes would drop think about it you need id to have a bank account and if you dont have one only other option is to carry your money around in your pocket making you a "walking atm" and easy target to steal from, makingthem residents only benifits this county in so many ways and if you cant see what they are you may be too ignorant and selfish to see them.
Lenny_v get a life because yours is B.S.
No wonder contractors up north don't bother to bid work in LV anymore.. providing health insurance and 401K makes it impossible to have a level playing field.