Democrats back to the battle
Unions, Clinton’s and Obama’s teams get into it
Leila Navidi
Supporters and journalists surround John Edwards during an appearance Wednesday at the Steelworkers union hall in Henderson. The union has endorsed the former senator from North Carolina.
Thu, Jan 17, 2008 (2 a.m.)
Hanging out at the debate
En Espanol: La gente y el debate
Outside Support
MSNBC Debate Spin Room Reaction
You Won't See This on TV
Audio Clip
- Rodney Slater, Secretary of Transportation during Bill Clinton's administration, talks about Hillary Clinton's view on aiding minorities
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Audio Clip
- David Bonior, John Edwards' national campaign manager, talks about Edwards' stance on immigration
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Audio Clip
- Sheila Leslie, Nevada assemblywoman, talks about Barack Obama's opinion on education for minorities
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Jon Ralston's analysis
- Video: Still a Close Race
- Video: They Can All Get Along
- Video: Calm Debate
- Video: No Change in the Race
Presidential Debate Recap:
- Political Kumbaya
- Timing may sink lawsuit aimed at Strip voting
- Markets pick 'em better than polls
- 11th hour, Ron Paul holds to his maverick strategy
- Undecideds find little help in debate
- Out in droves
- Democrats engage in substantive, tranquil and focused debate
- Video: MSNBC Debate Highlight: Yucca Mountain
A day after a debate of mostly warm feelings and happy talk, the fight to win Nevada’s Democratic caucus turned intense again Wednesday, with the campaign of New York Sen. Hillary Clinton acting as the aggressor on many fronts.
A Clinton policy aide hosted a call to attack her chief opponent, Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, on health care and Clinton backers pushed a story claiming that the Culinary Union intimidated its members to get them to support Obama, whom the union endorsed last week. The alleged victim of the one incident cited, however, later told the Sun the perceived pressure may have been a misunderstanding.
On the other side, the Culinary continued to mobilize on Obama’s behalf and has questioned whether a Clinton-affiliated rival union is abiding by campaign finance law. The 60,000-member Culinary Union attacked Clinton in fliers on immigration, the Iraq war and labor issues.
The renewed engagement between the two came just hours after Obama and Clinton conceded during the debate that their campaigns and supporters had been overzealous, especially on the issue of race. The candidates pledged to do better.
As their campaigns skirmished, the candidates themselves followed up Tuesday’s debate with Wednesday events to win over last minute fence–sitters before leaving for elsewhere.
Clinton focused on the proposed repository for nuclear waste at Yucca Mountain in a discussion with academics and activists at UNLV in the morning.
She reiterated her opposition to the nuclear waste site echoed by her Democratic rivals and tried to paint herself as the candidate with the strongest environmental record. She touted her plan to fund alternative energies, and blasted the Bush administration for sidelining scientific research that doesn’t support its political agenda.
Former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards arrived in Las Vegas from Reno on Wednesday, and was soon greeted by 70 union volunteers at the United Steel Worker’s Union hall in Henderson. He’s been endorsed by the union, which has 3,100 members in the state. Edwards held several events in the area, after drawing more than 1,000 people at his Reno rally.
Obama spoke at the Henderson Convention Center to several hundred supporters and undecideds, many of whom began lining up two hours early to get in. Obama took questions after his stump speech.
On health care, he said, “Both Clinton and Edwards have proposed good health care plans,” and either of them would be “a vast improvement over the system we have now.”
Obama returned to a theme of his campaign, that he is the wise conciliator who can bring warring parties together: “I respect that Sen. Clinton and President Clinton tried to get health care fixed in 1993. But they went about it the wrong way. They went behind closed doors and tried to do it themselves.”
Later, a Clinton aide attacked the Obama health plan as leaving out 15 million Americans because it includes no mandate that every person obtain health insurance.
The Obama camp has responded that Clinton hasn’t sufficiently laid out enforcement mechanisms that would give the mandate any teeth, and so it is meaningless. By not including an individual mandate, Obama backers say, his plan would have a better chance of passing a Congress wary of forcing Americans to buy something they don’t want.
A Clinton mailer accused Obama of favoring a big tax increase. The increase would be levied only on the wealthy and would be used to shore up the finances of Social Security, Obama countered.
Clinton backers weren’t the only ones making a forceful argument.
The Culinary sent out another tough flier. It accuses Clinton of taking money from union bete noire Station Casinos and of double talk on immigration, and notes her vote for the Iraq war authorization. The flier also accuses the Clinton campaign of attempting to block union members from voting.
The charge relates to a lawsuit filed by a group with Clinton ties that seeks to shut down special caucus sites on the Las Vegas Strip. The case goes before a judge today.
The plaintiffs, which include the teachers union, say the Strip caucus sites give disproportionate influence to the Culinary. Caucus rules allow anyone who works within 2.5 miles of the special sites union or nonunion to attend a caucus there.
The Culinary Union rolled out an aggressive field program months ago, promoting solidarity on caucus day, and has been dispatching its team of 200 organizers into the streets and into Strip casinos to lock down support for Obama.
Clinton is getting help from the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees.
The union has split Nevada into 11 regions and deployed 125 paid employees in a member-to-member outreach effort, said Larry Scanlon, AFSCME’s national political director. It bused another 100 members into Nevada from California over the weekend to canvass and make phone calls. That effort, Scanlon said, was also aimed solely at members. By law, the union can advocate only to its members, not the public.
Culinary officials have questioned why AFSCME would need that many workers to reach just 3,000-some members here.
“I’m not going to worry about other people criticizing or questioning our program,” Scanlon said. “We’re going to work like hell to get our favorite candidate nominated and elected in November.”
AFSCME supports the at-large caucus lawsuit, and Scanlon said the union has been pushing the state Democratic Party to allow AFSCME members to act as election monitors at the Strip sites.
The New York Times reported Sunday that AFSCME planned to spend $214,000 money from its Political Action Committee and so can be spent freely on Nevada TV ads.

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Mainstream media wants to see Clinton versus McCain. They continue to ignore local polls which show that Obama is in a tight race in Nevada and ahead in South Carolina. They continue to report on gender and race as pivotal issues. This is similar to the Bush war strategy, "Support our Troops". If your American you'll support our troops and the war. This logic doesn't hold up. In these presidential elections it does not hold up either. Whether a candidate is a woman or a half black man does not determine the impact that they will have on your life or tell you what direction they want to take the country in on individual issues. Just look at Condoleeza Rice, a black woman in the Bush Administration who parrots out the party line for Bush.
Anyway, the media continues to be biased towards "establishment" candidates, candidates that are entrenched in the system so that it will be business as usual. The business is money, not for you or me, but for them.
Politicians crave power and that power must be balanced with idealism. When a politician loses all idealism they become corrupt taking money and increasing their personal power dramatically. In this Democratic race, I'm not aware of any of the candidates being this bad. However Clinton's record is more substantially mired in controversy, ranging from turning $1000 into $100000 in cattle futures, to Whitewater, to being found guilty of lying while she was at the White House, to large earmarks for private developers who then turned around and financed and campaigned for her, to falsely attacking Obama as a pro-life candidate for voting "present" in New Hampshire. There's even a movie the Republican are set to release. http://www.hillarythemovie.com/
Obama has ties to Wall Street and Chicago politics so he may not be clean either. He has proposed reform though and refuses to earmark funds for private developments. He certainly initially did nothing to try to remove the race card early on when the controversy regarding Clintons comments on MLK were aired. It appeared she was just trying to emphasis her ability to get dreams realized and inadvertently diminished MLK a bit. I don't know about Edwards, he's to far left to win so haven't researched him.
I know any of the candidates will be a huge step forward from the Bush Administration. I hope everyone can look at each Democratic candidate on the issues that are important to them in an intelligent manner (meaning excluding race and gender) and make up their own minds. How wonderful for Nevada to have such an important place in history!!
THANK YOU Dems for electing Hillary. As a REPUBLICAN, nothing makes me happier than seeing a Republican run against Hillary Clinton. NOTHING unites the Republicans more than Hillary Clinton and this will give us a GREAT chance of winning the general election. THANK YOU DEMOCRATS:) You picked the most experienced candidate in 2004 and we demolished him and we will do the same to Clinton. She will be no match to Hukabee/McCain or McCain/Hukabee or Hukabee/Guiliani ticket. People of the country want a fresh and genuine face and Hukabee is that face for Republicans and he can beat the old timer Clinton in the general for sure. Republicans will turn out in droves across the South once they see that Hillary is the opponent. Thank you Dems for electing Clinton! Go Hillary Go:)
While 58% of voters familiar with Hillary Clinton have a positive view of her, 41% give her negative marks, for a net favorability score of +17." TIME. Woo hoo, that's such an impressive score! (yes, sarcasm here...)
Chameleon Clinton hasn't been able to keep her campaign strategy on track, all they've done is flip flop depending on the day of the week.
First, "I'm the inevitable candidate"
- then "I'm your girl" awwww...
- then attack dog on her rivals
- then "I'm hyper-experienced"
- then the likeability tour (still LOL...)
- then "I'm the change agent" ???
- then "we're BFFs with Magic Johnson and we're going to Iowa!" huh???
- then "look who I'm married to in case you've forgotten" (I stayed with him so now he has to do everything I tell him!)
- then "I'm still the change agent--and Wes Clark and Madeline Albright show just how much change I offer!" ...deja vu all over again...
- then gender card/crocodile tears (the question was about how she looks so nice everyday...)
- then "we're BFFS with Bob "I promoted smut on BET" Johnson and we'll trot him out to SC to show how much we care about African-Americans"
- then "I'm eating in a taco shop so me and the Hispanic voters can be BFFs..."
Come on, HRC can't even be truthful to herself about who she really is. Yet voters are supposed to trust her...thanks but no thanks. Stay tuned for the next makeover of HRC...
Elites vs. commoners battle outcome most of the time favors the commoners.
Nevada caucus is over, unless Obama can fend off the law suit. Without the support of the establishment unions, he would not be even competitive.
South Carolina is the Obama's only hope. Race card seems to be playing fairly well there. Every where else it will be a disaster.
Obama posting on his achievement bring up the good point, what is the actual achievement?
It is all "words", like Obama himself is. Only THREE achievements in 46 year life.
It is pathetic.
It's quite clear that Hillary is playing dirty politics to get the nomination and presidency that she feels entitled to. I was a big fan of the Clintons until recently. I am disppointed with how she has managed to divide Democratic voters. You would think Rove was advising her.
Perhaps if you have to ask what the achievement is, you havent read the post
Obama has missed nearly 80% of the senate votes this last year. For the past two years, he has missed 1/3 of all votes. He has voted against a women's right to choice. He supports Bush's energy plan which gave $13billion dollars to oil companies. He proclaims to be against the Iraq war but somehow did manage to vote to fund the war 3 times. He said he'd vote against the patriot act, then voted for it.
Now he is being investigated for his business dealings with a man named TONY REZKO, who is being indicted for fraud and bribery charges in Illinois for a questionable land deal he did with Obama.
The crap on Obama is just beginning to hit the fan.
The only legislation he passed in the Senate was an ethics bill that does not allow lobbyists to buy lunch for congress memebers....oh yeah, they can still buy them lunch but only if they are standing up!!!
At the debate, he states himself that he does not want to be the Chief Operating Officer of a bureaucracy. HELLO??? What job does he think he's applying for? Didn't we just have 8 years of someone that is HANDS OFF???
This guy is in NO WAY READY to be President.
What impresses us most about Obama is his ability to inspire hope in those who’ve learned to dismiss the political process as a cynical joke. And his gift goes beyond speechifying, which he does with uncommon grace. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton has charged that he is short on experience. We disagree. He has had more years of legislative experience than Clinton, with three years in the U.S. Senate and eight years in that rough-and-tumble body known as the Illinois Legislature. During those 11 years, he successfully brought together Democrats and Republicans to pass legislation benefitting ordinary people — from tax credits for children to ethics reform in Congress.
And what good did Clinton’s experience serve us when she voted to give President Bush a blank check to wage war on Iraq? Few decisions in history have proved so predictably wrong-headed. As the most engaged First Lady in history and as a U.S. Senator, she should have known better. Yet Clinton never even read the National Intelligence Estimates that assessed Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein as odious but not an imminent threat to the United States. Our own congressmember, Lois Capps, knew better when she voted against the war authorization act.
At that time, Obama, who had not yet assumed his U.S. Senate seat — and could not vote — spoke out extensively against the war and predicted many of the horrors that have since come to pass: thousands of American dead, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead. Escalating terrorism. A staggering drain on the economy. Untold dreams forever deferred.
While Clinton is certainly a strong candidate for president, she remains fundamentally a tragic figure in American politics. The victim of one of the most relentlessly vicious and sexist smear campaigns unleashed in recent memory, Clinton retreated into her own interior fortress. We sympathize with her plight, but that’s no reason to give her our vote on February 5. In the next four years, we need to tear down the fortress walls and begin the hard work of rediscovering what it really means to be American. As a nation, we long to regain the courage of our convictions, to renew our faith in American ideals.
The groundswell of support for Barack Obama is based on the belief that he has the ability to inspire hope and define our aspirations as a nation in a way that reaches not only Americans, but the world. We believe this as well, and urge you to vote for Barack Obama in the Democratic primary on February 5.
http://www.independent.com/news/2008/jan...
You gotta love the campaign operatives posting here and posing as regular Joes and Janes.
The Clinton lust for power knows no bounds, no decency, no integrity, no limits.
Do we really want these people back in power or do we want to relegate them to the sidelines where they belong?
She is the most divisive figure in American politcs who energizes Republicans more than the 70% in IA, and the 61% in NH who hate this woman and won't support her. That rejection is from her own party.
Vote NO to HRC and support one of the others on 1/19...
Clinton has 8 years of legislative experience and Obama has 11. Clinton has refused to release her white house records for every one to see. All this will come to light if she manages to become the nominee. The republican party will bring out all her lack of experience, voting records as well as demand for her white house records. Obama is definetely more experience than Clinton based on their records. Clinton thinks she is entitled to this based on her husband achievement. Bill is not running and she should run based on her records. Hillary release your white house records
While we are in our worst economy in decades, we have democratic Presidential candidates acting like Republicans, wanting to push us further in the hole with their "economic" plan. Currying further favors for Big Business and Corporations, instead of the PEOPLE. Hillary wants to freeze interest rates for 5 years and Obama is talking about MORE TAX CUTS and Small busines. This further takes money from our government and middle class. That does NOT help Middle and lower income. This is Dubya all over as we are seeing-yet again, Bush is now talking more tax cuts to stimulate the economy. GIVING TO BUSINESSES DOES NOT STIMULATE THE ECONOMY...AS CURRENT PROOF SHOWS.
WE NEED JOHN EDWARDS. CLOSE THESE CORPORATE LOOP HOLES. Build up the working class.
As these Corporate candidates keep giving to businesses, the people keep hurting. Citibank shipped so many jobs over seas, got their tax breaks and shelters and LOOK WHERE WE ARE. Now, the few jobs left in this country, we risk losing 20,000 jobs. HELLOOO.
Again, the WORKERS, THE BASE OF OUR ECONOMY hurts. Add this to the housing problem. OMG. More for the elites. My sister just received word last month that her bonus was now going to end. And then this month, Chase Bank announces they've hired former PM Tony Blair PART TIME for a ONE MILLION DOLLAR SALARY.
WHO ARE THESE POLICIES HELPING?
Forget keeping, HELP Bring back the PROMISE to America.
John Edwards, for the people, not the powerful.
Real Change on REAL ISSUES.
MSNBC's Chris Matthews - Hillary was 'so strong tonight. she's playing on the varsity team' "She behaved as if she won the Democratic nomination already. That those two partners with her tonight were her adjutants, her allies already. She has won it. She was so strong tonight in skipping past the intramurals to the varsity. She's playing on the varsity team tonight. [her] attack on the president was so dramatic, so powerful, referring to his pathetic effort to try to jawbone the prices down by the middle east oil potentates, made the president look small tonight. She was running as his stronger successor, I might put it, tonight. It was powerful stuff and I wonder if these guys were ready for it. I don't think they were, to take her on tonight, Keith. I thought it was a strong performance tonight. Something else to watch." [MSNBC, 1/15/08]
Reno Gazette Journal's Anjeanette Damon - HRC 'seizes on the moment' on Yucca Mountain. "The Inevitable Yucca Mountain question is broached: Hillary Clinton seizes on the moment to go after both Barack Obama, pointing out that he has taken large campaign contributions from the nuclear industry in his state, and John Edwards, pointing out that he voted in favor of the project before turning against it." [Reno Gazette Journal, 1/15/08]
NBC News' Andrea Mitchell - Hillary 'had passion' gave a 'very successful' performance. "Well the strategy was clearly to run against Bush and by doing that she becomes the presumptive leader among these people. She was very forceful and I think effective and not in a strident way when she talked about the urgency of the mortgage crisis because she had detailed information, she had passion about it, but it wasn't a grading thing, it was really a strong, forceful presentation. I thought that was very successful." [MSNBC, 1/15/08]
NBC News' Chuck Todd - 'Clinton is ' the candidate who is saying all the right things.' "Clinton is proving to be the candidate who is saying all the right things as far as Nevada is concerned." [MSNBC First Read, 1/15/08]
ABC News' Rick Klein - When the debate 'turned to substance' Hillary 'turned it on,' show 'depth and range.' "On energy, an overall strong performance by Clinton. As soon as this debate turned to substance, she's turned it on. Clinton is answering the questions on the economy with depth and range" [ABC, Political Radar, 1/15/08]
ABC News' David Wright - Hillary got 'the better' of Obama. "Seems like the only debate so far is over whether Obama's messy desk is a sign that he's not up to the job. Obama arguing he has vision, but needs staff to handle the . . . Clinton did seem to get the better of him . . . Not surprising he should lose that round." [ABC, Political Radar, 1/15/08]
The Atlantic's Marc Ambinder - Hillary 'got the better of an exchange on Yucca Mountain.' "Clinton got the better of an exchange on Yucca Mountain, making sure to drive home the point that John Edwards twice voted in favor of the nuclear waste repository." [The Atlantic blog, 1/15/08]
You can paste the same thing over and over again, We need clinton to declare her white house records. Other than being the a first lady, she has less than 8 years legislative experience. Bill Clinton accused the news agencies for not supporting his wife and the individual comments form most of these news anchor does not represent the views of the American people. TRUST YOUR ON GUTS, research and be factual
As I watch Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton on the campaign trail, I find them increasingly a study in contrasts, their differences evident not only in the things they say but in the fundamental nature of their respective campaigns. Hillary Clinton wants to be America's manager-in-chief, and her campaign shows it. Clinton '08 is a strictly managed affair from the top down, and that is how decisions are made: from the top down. Among Clinton's high profile backers is Martha Stewart, and Clinton '08 has all the earmarks of a Martha Stewart campaign, a campaign with not so much as a throw pillow out of place. In fact I should imagine that if one were to compare one of Clinton's speeches to a Martha Stewart address before a gathering of potential investors, one would find very little difference. Barack Obama, in contrast, wishes to lead by inspiring; and he has already demonstrated the ability to inspire many thousands across the United States and indeed around the world. If Hillary Clinton represents the market-model, managerial mentality of the 1990s, Obama seems to recall the political and social leaders of the 1960s, as many have observed - leaders who believed likewise that leadership was about more than just managing bureaucracy. None of America's greatest presidents are considered great because of their bureaucratic management skills. Abraham Lincoln's authorship of the Emancipation Proclamation was not an act of effective bureaucratic management, nor was JFK's dream to put a human on the moon by the end of his decade. If Barack Obama were not in possession of the basic skills required for the job he seeks, he would not have come as far as he has. Obama possesses far more, however, than the ability merely to be our chief pencil pusher.
Do not give up and vote for Hillary as the status quo. Do not hope that Obama can beat the Republican nominee. The media blitz for these two candidates has been playing into the Republicans hopes of retaining the White House for another four years. Nevada can make the difference this year!!
John Edwards has consistently shown that he has the biggest statistical advantage over all of the Republican candidates. John Edwards can win the national election, ensuring that this will not be a repeat of elections of 2000 and 2004. Do not inject doubt into the election by nominating an barely electable national candidate.
Caucus for John Edwards this Saturday and make him the front runner!
Do we really want the Scandel ridden Clintons back in our white house...Just remember..Ken Starr, Monica Lewinsky, Linda trip! Nafta...that took all of those American jobs away!
Bill got oral from an intern in the oval office...He lied under oath " I didnt have sexual relations with Mis lewinsky" and was up for impeachment!
They are liars and power hungry!
The problem is that George Bush has been such a total disaster, that he makes the Clintons look good by comparison!
Do we really want these people representing our country to the rest of the world.
I want a man of character, and class. A man who is inspiring, and hopeful for our future.
Obama is the clear choice, and could take our country in a new direction that we havent seen in 40 years.
Please vote with your heads, and think this through!
I am deeply disturbed by the naked ambition of the Clinton family to reach the White House at all costs. They seem to consider ethics completely irrelevant to their goals. I have respect for any candidate's right to campaign vigorously, but to spread rumors, innuendos, outright lies and smears just to win is an insult to the fundamental decency of the American people. We as Americans, must remember we are not a monarchy but a representative democracy and no one should have a sense of inheritance to the presidency. Bush/ Clinton/ Bush/ Clinton? What next? Jeb Bush/ Chelsea/ Jenna? And, Bill Clinton does not have enough decency to act as a retired President must act, namely as an elder statesman. He gets into the mud pit to fling more dirt on anyone who stands in the way of his getting back to the White House, albeit as a surrogate to his wife. Wake up, America, let us make sure we never forget our ideals. Even with my strong Democratic leanings, I am very tempted to vote Republican if Hillary is the nominee. With nearly half of the electorate against Hillary, it would be suicidal for the party to nominate her as its nominee. The Republicans are salivating. Let us ensure that we really take this chance to reclaim our status as the party that caters to real change and elect the only candidate that can bring about racial reconciliation, rapprochement with the rest of the world and a sense of commitment to the ideals of America. Let us get back to defending the constitution of the United States, the best document written by man in the last three hundred years. Let us elect Obama.
Read about Obama's experience - Hillary clinton is doing nothing but trying to convince people who won't bother to learn on their own, that Barack is inexperienced--when he has more years in office than her!
Time Magazine - Obama's Political Experience
Wednesday, Jan. 16, 2008
Obama's Varied Record
By AP/CHRISTOPHER WILLS
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/...
Obama didn't get the memo, and that's why he gets nailed on the "experience" issue. The memo reads, "You get no--zero-- credit for experience if you jump off the six-figure career track and waste your life working with little pissant voters one-to-one on stuff like decent housing or voting rights. If you're 'a serious candidate' you won't waste your time with such nonsense. Voters are only to be used for cute 'grip-and-grin' shots, or the tear-jerking anecdote."
LATEST ENDORSEMENT!!!
— Vermont Sen. Patrick Leahy, the powerful chairman of the Judiciary Committee, will back Sen. Barack Obama’s bid for president, three Democratic sources familiar with the pending endorsement tell CNN — the Illinois senator's fourth Senate endorsement in a week.
Leahy, first elected in 1974, is charged with vetting nominees to the federal bench, including the U.S. Supreme Court.
“Pat Leahy is one of the finest members of the U.S. Senate, and he sees the kind of possibilities that Barack Obama can bring to effect change to this country and world,” said one of the sources.
UPDATE: On a conference call with reporters, Leahy said he endorsed Obama because he believes he can bring reform to the nation's health care system and schools, and end the Iraq war. "Barack Obama gives us that hope," he said, saying the Illinois senator "represents the America we once were, and want to be again."
"We need a president who can reintroduce America to the world, actually reintroduce America to ourselves. I believe Barack Obama is the best person to do that," said Leahy.
He also said that "My endorsement is not in opposition to either Sen. Clinton or Sen. Edwards, both of whom I know and admire. I'm looking at who can do this best, and I believe Barack Obama can."
LAWSUITS & SMEAR THE UNION: Typical Clinton...wake up Nevada!
We need a change, this is Obama's time, the Clintons are so last season. A new day calls for new leadership. The establishment had their chance, and the current day mess is because of their inability to draw the sides together and solve America's challenges. Hillary divides and Obama unites. Why has this process been turned into one big Nevada "pissing match?" Because the same Democratic party elite in NV that lost the state to Bush twice and Gibbons once, is desperate to keep the status quo. Change you can believe in...Obama!
Leahy endorsement of Obama is very powerfull. I can't imagine Leahy endorses someone who is not ready for the job. This endorsement should dispeal anybody's doubts about Obama's ability to be the President of the United States of America.
If we can make race an issue, then we can make gender an issue...something that's been bugging me since the recent debate:
In an international landscape where many middle eastern or international countries (and their leaders) seem to view women as nothing more than chattal--no drivers licenses or voting power, no skin showing, complete subservience to men, 200 lashes for allowing yourself to be raped, etc.--how is a woman president supposed to be taken seriously, and negotiate effectively, with governments that would just as soon see her (as a woman) hidden behind a burka, silent and obedient, standing two paces behind her husband. There are many nations like this...theocratic caste systems that afford women little standing in public life. Nations that do not respect women by the very design of their systems.
So while Hillary's line about Bush "begging" for oil reduction went over really well..one must also wonder...were she President...SHE would not even be able to make the trip. Not to be taken seriously, at least. Because in their eyes...she is a second class citizen in every respect.
Condoleeza Rice is a woman so what is your point? Can we please not use gender alone in this election? Hillary is simply not qualifed. She is not what this country needs right now.
Condi isn't exactly a regular on the Saudi tour, is she.
Are you at least, now, wondering WHY?
The Secretary of State is perfectly capable of negotiating oil begging with the Saudi's...so really, why send GWB?
And if you're payin' attention...you'll notice that Condi is usually insulated by a cadre of men whenever visiting one of these backwards nations. We can't afford the appearance of such weakness--even it it IS completely unjustified--in the countries we intend to broker tenuous agreements with.
I'm simply posing a question, really...I agree that Billary isn't right for our nation now (or ever, for that matter)...it's just something both my wife and I have genuinely wondered about.
Have you ever wondered why a female would also not do the same in Japan? Or have you not studied international culture and business?
This is such wonderful news; I have been praying about this for the last few days. This lawsuit and the Clinton’s support of it have caused me to lose a lot of respect and trust in them (not to mention my vote).
GREAT NEW AD by John Edwards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWVN4DEwV...
...Who will you vote for? The Corporations candidates, or YOUR CANDIDIDATE, John Edwards for AMERICA!
Power to the people, not the Corporations.
Obama just said Reagan brought true change during his interview with right wing magazine.
This is the problem with waffler, he tries to everything to everyone
http://youdecide08.foxnews.com/2008/01/1...
http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/articl...
Elite democrats, we don't know what you are thinking. See the light, joint the commoners in this battle to defeat the Repblican extremist.
Up thread, you really are going to sit here and say Hillary did better than John because she pointed to his vote a decade ago that supported Yucca Mountain, but she still wil allow Nuclear Plants, to further this problem?
I think it much better that he acknowledge AND HILLARY DID NOT DISAGREE, that the information was wrong and reports were forged. There are many more important issues and that he will not allow any new plants be built, because of this very real problem is a the proper action.
any skepticism about Obama's voting record, achievements, or so called dirt on him will not ruin his campaign. i found this site which talks about other, huge factors heavily in his favor. www.WhyTheDemocratsWillWinIn2008.com
Top Donor to Sen. Obama Spent Millions Lobbying to Store Nuclear Waste at Yucca Mountain
One of Sen. Obama's biggest donors is the energy giant Exelon:
Exelon is the sixth largest donor to Sen. Obama's presidential campaign and the fourth largest career donor to Obama’s federal campaigns. Exelon employees have donated over $269,100 to his federal campaigns and over $194,750 in 2008. [opensecrets.org, 2008, 2004-2008]
Exelon's CEO is a key advocate for storing nuclear waste at Yucca:
Exelon CEO John Rowe calls Yucca mountain project ‘linchpin’ to solving waste problem and building new plants. "So what does Exelon Chief Executive Officer John Rowe want? Fortune magazine, in a May 15, 2006, article titled 'Meet Mr. Nuke,' details Rowe's call to solve the waste problem before additional nuclear power plants are built. "We have to be able to look the public in the eye and say, 'If we build a plant, here's where the waste will go,' " Rowe told Fortune. The Yucca Mountain Project is the 'linchpin' to solving the waste problem and building new plants.”[Las Vegas Review Journal, 5/15/07]
Exelon has spent millions lobbying to open up Yucca mountain:
In 2002, Exelon spent $2,172,000 dollars on lobbying the federal government on issues including 'Yucca Mountain Project Management' [sopr.senate.gov, mid-year; year-end]
In 2003, Exelon spent $2,864,400 dollars on lobbying the federal government on issues including 'Yucca Mountain Project Management' [sopr.senate.gov, mid-year; year-end]
In 2004, Exelon spent over $1,000,000 dollars on lobbying the federal government on issues including 'Yucca Mountain Project Management' [sopr.senate.gov, mid-year; year-end]
In 2005, Exelon spent $1,815,000 dollars on lobbying the federal government on issues including ‘the Department of Energy’s Yucca Mountain Project.’ [sopr.senate.gov, mid-year, year-end]
In 2006, Exelon spent $1,329,014 dollars on lobbying the federal government on issues including ‘the Department of Energy’s Yucca Mountain Project.’ [sopr.senate.gov, mid-year, year-end]
In 2007, Exelon spent $1,732,321 dollars on lobbying the federal government on issues including the ‘Yucca Mountain National Interest…’ [sopr.senate.gov, mid-year]
Sen. Edwards voted twice to open-up Yucca mountain to nuclear waste storage:
Sen. Edwards voted for and against Yucca Mountain in 2000; in 2002, he supported Yucca Mountain again. "In February 2000, Edwards voted against a bill calling for nuclear waste storage in Nevada by the year 2007. But after President Clinton vetoed the bill, Edwards changed course and voted to override the veto. In July 2002, Edwards voted for President Bush's designation of Yucca Mountain as the site of a nuclear waste repository." [Las Vegas Review-Journal, 2/12/04]
Obama has always opposed Yucca. Hillary Clinton, however, supported the 2001 bankruptcy bll. In 2005 she did NOT vote on the bankruptcy bill. So think about it...because in the 2008 cycle, her top contributor has been Citigroup Incorporated which has raised $532,960 for her!
Obama is playing both sides. It seems pretty obvious to me that he is a very charismatic orator and a politician by and for the corporations that fund him. I wish it were otherwise. I just do not believe that he really provides much change, other than the color of his skin.
CLINTON HAS TAKEN THOUSANDS FROM NUCLEAR POWER PLANT OPERATOR NRG ENERGY AND NRG CEO DAVID CRANE IS A BUNDLER FOR THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN
Clinton Has Accepted Thousands In Contributions From NRG Energy Inc., Which Is The First Company To File An Application For A New Nuclear Power Plant In The United States Since The Three Mile Island Accident; Clinton's Position On Nuclear Power Has Confounded Critics Who See A Contradiction In Her Opposition To Yucca But Not To Expansion In Nuclear Power. "At a South Carolina town hall in February, Clinton expressed concerns about waste disposal but noted that 'nuclear power has to be a part of our energy solution.' Clinton has accepted thousands in contributions from the nuclear industry, including nearly $80,000 in this election from employees and a PAC of NRG Energy Inc., the first company to file an application for a new nuclear power plant in the United States since before the Three Mile Island accident." [AP, 11/13/07]
David Crane, The President And CEO Of NRG Energy, A Nuclear Power Company, Has Raised At Least $100,000 For Clinton And Made A $4,600 Contribution. David Crane, a "Hillraiser" for the Clinton campaign, is the president and CEO of NRG Energy Inc. Crane donated $4,600 on March 31, 2007 to Clinton's campaign. NRG Energy Inc. is the first company to file an application for a new nuclear power plant in the United States since before the Three Mile Island accident. [Center for Responsive Politics; AP, 11/13/07; White House For Sale]
NRG COMMITTED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO THE CLINTON GLOBAL INITIATIVE
NRG Committed $5 Million To The Clinton Global Initiative In The First Year And $175 Million Total. [Clinton Global Initiative]
CLINTON ONLY RECENTLY CALLED FOR ACTION ON YUCCA MOUNTAIN AND NO PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE
Clinton Justified Previous Inaction On Yucca Mt. Issue, Saying It Was "A Waste Of Time To Ask Questions" To The "Republican-Controlled Congress."
Senator Inholfe Questioned Clinton's Opposition To Yucca Nuclear Repository Because "She Was Missing In Action" For Repository Hearing. Senator James Inhofe, R-Okla., challenged Hillary Clinton's promise to "not go forward" with the proposed Nevada nuclear waste repository at Yucca Mountain because she failed to attend 2 nuclear waste hearings held by her committee on Environment and Public Works. Senator Grey said: "When Senator Clinton had the opportunity to ask 'hard questions' of administration officials about Yucca Mountain, she was missing in action."
I love when somebody says Obama doesn't have the experience to be president: Do you realize that Obama's 11 years in legislative experience is more than Hillary's 8 years in the Senate? And when Hillary was pushing her disastrous secretive health care plan in the '90s that repelled everybody (and set universal health care back 20 years), Obama was practicing Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago along with his community organizational activities.
So today, ask yourself who's preaching fear vs. who's preaching hope? Who is playing the race card, and who is preaching unity. Listen folks, America doesn't need this: men against women, white against black, Dem vs Republican, us against them. America needs a leader, not a divider. I don't have to tell you who I'm for; by just reading this, you'll know who I'm for. And then ask yourself, why would you still support the other side?
This is what I am talking about.
"One of Sen. Obama's biggest donors is the energy giant Exelon:
Exelon is the sixth largest donor to Sen. Obama's presidential campaign and the fourth largest career donor to Obama’s federal campaigns. Exelon employees have donated over $269,100 to his federal campaigns and over $194,750 in 2008. [opensecrets.org, 2008, 2004-2008]
Exelon's CEO is a key advocate for storing nuclear waste at Yucca"
How can you say that you will not represent the interests of those you are in bed with?
Or why are you in bed with them in the first place?
Edwards has said he regretted his vote and is against storing nuclear waste at Yucca or even building another nuclear plant. I believe him. He is not taking money from corporate lobbyists.
Senator Clinton is in bed with most lobbyists. She takes more lobbyist money than any candidate. Need I say more?
Obama promised us “change” in Illinois too -- but failed to deliver anything. He has NEVER inititated or supported the kind of fundamental changes that would improve our lives or rid Chicago and Illinois of the politics as usual that has crippled it.
On the contrary, he has supported, and benefited politically and financially from our corrupt system here.
The media has an obligation to provide a more insightful and meaningful exploration of Obama's record -- or rather lack of a record – on the issue of “change” in Chicago and Illinois.
Obama is a con man. He hasn't done anything while on our payroll as our senator but cut deals to enrich himself (e.g. Rezko) and his wife (tell us, Michelle, what was the deal Obama cut that more than tripled your salary to $350,000 at the U of Chicago Hospitals immediately after he was elected to the senate?).
More lies and misinformation. I love how you guys have helped us to get the word out on CHANGE for Obama. Enough of the dirty politics. or rather, thanks. OBAMA '08!!!!
Despite protests to the contrary, Saint Obama the Uniter has actively sought an opportunity to inject race into the 2008 campaign leading into Nevada and South Carolina primaries. He couldn't find it, so they first went with "fairy tale" being racist to describe one of Obama's positions. Hardly racist. Then his campaign picked up on Clinton’s MLK comment and misinterpreted it. He needed to trick and incite African Americans, while distancing himself enough personally so as not to be obvious to whites, Hispanics and others.
I can't imagine four years of Obama adminstration's race games.
Obama needs to keep in mind, however, that if the race is held out as a valid reason to vote FOR someone, it must also be a valid reason to vote AGAINST someone. He can't have it both ways. I hope his disgusting race games ultimately crash his campaign.
Please caucus for real Change we can believe in with Obama.
Not the same old status quo, dirty politics, and flip-flopping lies. Our children deserve way better than this.
See what others say http://nevada.barackobama.com/page/conte...
BARACK OBAMA LIED TO NEVADA:
CLICK HERE TO FIND OUT HOW!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2P0sGcy1...
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Lies and misinformation can always be researched for the truth. Dirty politics and smears won't win this time.
http://factcheck.barackobama.com/
You want to know how Obama got ahead in South Carolina? By playing the same dirty divisive politics George W Bush did in 2000. People might like to know that Obama used hateful anti-gay bigot Donnie McClurkin on at campaign rallies in South Carolina. In fact McClurkin is still being used by the Obama campaign. McClurkin is notorious for using his anti-gay rhetoric to win over support from evangelical black churches. McClurkin even sang at the 2004 Republican Convention. Months ago Obama was loosing the black vote to Clinton...so what does he do? Let's get anti-gay bigot McLurkin to win over support for us at black evangelical churches. And it seems to be working. When one looks closer at the Obama campaign.. they don't see a campaign of unity.. but one of taking from the Republican party playbook of pitting groups against one another. Apparantly in South Carolina, the black evangelical vote is more valuable to Obama.. so if it means campaigning with an anti-gay bigot like McClurkin to snag it.. so be it.. And why not? The mainstream media has seen fit not to report any of the truth about the Obama campaign.
http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story...
If you truly support Obama, then spread this article to everyone on your email list. Let his record and his years of selfeless service to the American dream speak for itself. Remember, we are only seperated from every other person in the world by 6 people. Send it to every American you know. Truth will always trump lies, so don't be afraid. Stand for truth in these dark times and let's take our country back from the elites.
Time Magazine - Obama's Political Experience
Wednesday, Jan. 16, 2008
Obama's Varied Record
By AP/CHRISTOPHER WILLS
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/......
SEE AND THINK: John F. Kennedy's Ted Sorensen's endorsement at http://youtube.com/watch?v=ReDCmk2c2g8
Nevada on Jan 19----please, go and caucus for Barack Obama. Change is needed now and Barack is the man to deliver change, not Hillary. Hillary does not have America's interest at heart, she has her own interest in mind and that is to retain power. According to the NY Daily News and NBC, Clinton has summoned her surrogates online to smear Obama with false accusations. She is in desperate mood and will do anything to win. Case in point, a Reuters articled publish Today backs up my claim.
Reuters
ttp://www.reuters.com/article/blogBurst/politics?type=politicsNews&w1=B7ovpm21IaDoL40ZFnNfGe&w2=B7tmRCRJt2YFzDsa7MJ1CblL&src=blogBurst_politicsNews&bbPostId=Cz1VeFnrO5fmhCz7sNEgkr6eaqBzMbxhRwnI5YB1ouIbGT1iFk&bbParentWidgetId=B7tmRCRJt2YFzDsa7MJ1CblL
Nevada on Jan 19----please, go and caucus for Barack Obama. Change is needed now and Barack is the man to deliver change, not Hillary. Hillary does not have America's interest at heart, she has her own interest in mind and that is to retain power. According to the NY Daily News and NBC, Clinton has summoned her surrogates online to smear Obama with false accusations. She is in desperate mood and will do anything to win. Case in point, a Reuters and Liberal values articled published and article Today backs up my claim.
Reuters: http://www.reuters.com
http://liberalvaluesblog.com/
Dishonest smears by Hillary Clinton? Need I say more? rem123 Thanks for the information.
Forward the latest smears to watchdog@barackobama.com so that they can fight back.
And get factchecks at http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/eco...
Get factchecks at http://factcheck.barackobama.com/
The Clinton Campaign's endorsers who filed the lawsuit did so in the name of the custodians who open the doors of local schools that are going to be used as a caucus site.
The Federal Judge encouraged the Democrats,"to reach an out-of-court compromise on participation for custodians and other support personnel to participate in caucuses held at schools they must open and supervise."
This had nothing to do with teachers, it had to do with the use of school sites in neighborhoods being open by a custodian unlocking a door. The Clintons attemp to disenfranchise thousands of hard working people because the person unlocking a school used as a caucus site MAY not get to caucus themself? Unbelievable.
On Barack Obama's poor judgement...
Chapel Hill, North Carolina Jan 17, 2008 6:37 PM – John Edwards for President campaign manager David Bonior released the following statement about Senator Obama's comments about President Reagan:
"Senator Obama was wrong -- frightfully so -- in using Ronald Reagan as an example of voters reaching for change. The breadth of change Ronald Reagan brought was crippling for millions of Americans with the two worst recessions since the Depression, a complete disregard for the rights of American labor, and tax cuts that lined the pockets of the richest Americans at the expense of fiscal sanity and the well-being of the most vulnerable in our society.
"Senator Obama may have been more interested in contrasting Reagan with Bill Clinton, but it shows particularly bad judgment to suggest this is the kind or even the breadth of change Americans want. Instead of lauding Ronald Reagan, Senator Obama would do better to remember that it was presidents like Teddy Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt or John F. Kennedy who helped move this country forward."
Caucus for John Edwards! It's time to elect a real leader. One that will fight for us. Someone who consistently beats the Republican candidates one on one in the polls.
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Allow me to provide some light on a lot of misunderstanding here:
One, Senator Obama championed an extremely successful health care plan for Illinois children - All Kids http://www.allkids.com/, created with Rod R. Blagojevich (IL Gov.) is literally a model for a workable, affordable national health care plan. All children qualify, $40 per child for full coverage health insurance? How many of you making around $45,000 a year pay such a low premium. What health care program has Hillary created? She stated during the Nevada debate that she helped pass the CHIP, federal program that covers millions of children in the US. She completely misleads the audience. Senator Orrin G. Hatch, a conservative Republican, along with Senator Edward M. Kennedy, Democrat, wrote the monumental health care bill in 1997. Hillary boasted bravely of her achievement that night, but she was not in office in 1997, she was the first lady at the time, and was wrapped up in the Monica Lewinsky affair.
Two, Barack Obama has had a fantastic career, even before his political office. He was an Illinois Senator from 1996 to 2004. As a state legislator, Obama gained bipartisan support for legislation reforming ethics and health care laws.[33] He sponsored a law enhancing tax credits for low-income workers, negotiated welfare reform, and promoted increased subsidies for child care.[34] Obama also led the passage of legislation mandating videotaping of homicide interrogations, and a law to monitor racial profiling by requiring police to record the race of drivers they stopped.[34] The law was at first very controversial, but due to Obama's skills as a negotiator and bipartisanships, he won the support of the police. During his 2004 general election campaign for U.S. Senate, he won the endorsement of the Illinois Fraternal Order of Police, whose president credited Obama for his active engagement with police organizations in enacting death penalty reforms.-Wikipedia.
Time Magazine wrote an excellent article on Obama’s political achievements - http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/...
I'm fairly shocked at the misinformation of this election cycle. I wish I could remain unbiased. But Obama's dedication to service, his consistency to fight on behalf of the interest of the American people cannot be ignored. A presidency under him would indeed be a win for the common man, and undoubtedly would be a new era in Washington politics.
I'm afraid that under the Clinton's - If her current smear and suppress tactics are any indication - it would simply be more of the same Washington politics. I am voting for Obama because I believe we do need a new direction for our country, and Obama is exactly the man that can do that.
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I keep hearing the same mantra of Clinton being "vetted", and how the GOP would eviscerate Obama. Just in case you forgot, here's a link that'll let you know what the country's in for should Hillary win the nomination. I'm not saying it's all true, I'm just putting it out there as a reminder.
http://prorev.com/legacy.htm
By jcjcd
1/17/08 at 9:25 p.m.
Suggest removal AGAIN! BARACK OBAMA LIED TO NEVADA!
WATCH...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2P0sGcy1......
FUNNY HOW OBAMA'S STATE HAS THE MOST NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS THAT HE VOTED TO HAVE AND HE WANTS TO BUILD MORE, SO OBAMA'S STATE IS DUMPING THEIR WASTE ON YOU NEVADA FOLKS AT HIS VOTING AND DISCRETION AND YOU ARE ACTUALLY CONCIDERING VOTING FOR HIM? I WOULDN'T VOTE FOR ANYONE WHO TAKES A DUMP ON ME! LET ALONE 27 DUMPS FREQUENTLY AND PROMISING MORE DUMPS IN THE FUTURE...
Why Hillary is more electable than any other democrat?
Watch the interview with the African-American Sen. Charles Rengel at:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/
Full address:
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/vi...
Vote for Unity not divisiveness. Both Hillary and Obama have been part of dirty politics in this election.
Vote for John Edwards!
I like Obama's message about change but I'm skeptical about his message calling for unity. One of the changes he promised is to withdraw all Combat troops from Iraq if elected. Try uniting with Republicans on that. It is easier said than done. The President has to make tough choices sometimes. If you are trying to please everyone, nothing will be done. It's not about unity but getting the job done. Party Politics has its deficiencies but it is the foundation of Democracy. If you hate Party Politics so much, why don't you "unite"/brainwash people into one Party and name it the Communist Party?
Another problem with Obama is that he is trying to be everything for everyone. He is trying to be JFK for Liberals. He is trying to be MLK for African Americans. Now he is trying to be Ronald Reagan for the Republicans. Why doesn't he just be himself?
IM A UNION MEMBER,AND IM VOTING FOR HILLARY CLINTON.DONT WANT OBAMAS CHICAGO STYLE POLITICS IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
Hillary is playing dirty politics. She lies. She passed a flier around in New Hampshire and in Nevada scaring people into believing Obama is going to create a 1 trillion dollar tax increase to fund Social Security. FALSE. He only said he'd consider "raising the cap" to $200,000. Currently SS tax is only on those who make $97,000 a year or less. "Clinton, of all people, should know this. She was there, in the White House, when her husband signed the 1993 budget -- which conservatives and the media pilloried as a major tax hike."
Hillary has been fast and loose on the facts by stating that Obama's health plan left out 15 million. Her's leaves out 1% and Obama's about 2-3%. See factcheck.org.
She and Bill Clinton both have lied on her Iraq vote. On meet the press she tried to make it sound that she voted on Sen. Hagels bill which stated congress needed to authorize a war. But Bush rejected Hagels for another and Hillary voted yes on it.
I don't want a president who purposely twist the facts to slander her opponent or to win votes. This isn't politics as usual. I WANT CHANGE. If she is lying and misleading voters now, what do you think she'll do as president?
CLINTON 08
Don't forget http://hillarythemovie.com/trailer.html
NO THIRD TERM !
NO MORE BUSH, NO MORE CLINTON ! !
COOLICAN, DO YOU THINK YOU CAN POSSIBLY WRITE ONE ARTICLE ON THIS CAMPAIGN WITHOUT MAKING YOUR PREFERENCE FOR OBAMA SO OBVIOUS.
MY DEGREE IS TV BROADCASTING AND WHEN I WAS AT UNIVERSITY, I DID SOME RESEARCH ON STUDYING AN ARTICLE TO LOOK FOR BIAS. DUDE, YOU ARE THE STEROTYPE OF THAT PROCESS.
YOU NEED TO EITHER QUIT CALLING YOURSELF A REPORTER OR YOU SHOULD JUST COME OUT OF THE CLOSET AND MAKE YOUR BIASES KNOWN.
SCAMOBAMA HAS NO POLILITICAL EXPERIENCE - HE HAS SCAM EXPERIENCE
Those of us from Illinois do not want him to be the presidential candidate but on the other hand we would like to be rid of him.
Most of his mainstream supporters are racists as is his wife, his friends and his church.
These are facts - not the kind the SCAMORAMA SKANKS on this site want you to hear, but they are the truth.
Obama is genuine and honest and somehow being punished for it. We have been lead to believe that honesty and politics don't mix. Well I prefer someone to give it to me straight instead of look me us the eye and lie! And even falsly cry.
Bottomline, no one wants a third term for the Clinton, nor do we trust deceitful career politicians. America deserves better. That is why we need Obama '08.
We need CHANGE and a candidate we can BELIEVE in. Someone to finally represent the people.
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/12/11...
Send this link to everyone you know who votes. Americans and our media seem that this is a two person race. They are dead wrong. Some them that Edwards is the best candidate in the GENERAL ELECTION!!!
On the Democratic side, Edwards performs best against each of the leading Republicans. In addition to beating Huckabee by 25 percent and McCain by 8 percent, the North Carolina Democrat beats Romney by 22 percentage points (59 percent to 37 percent) and Giuliani by 9 percentage points (53 percent to 44 percent).
"Edwards is the only Democrat who beats all four Republicans, and McCain is the only Republican who beats any of the three Democrats," Holland said. "Some might argue this shows that they are the most electable candidates in their respective parties.
CNN is known for their obvious bias. Fake polls misinformation, and lies. People are tired of these same old paid for dirty politics.
We will be ready tomorrow to turn the page with a candidate we can BELIEVE in. Yes Nevada FIRED UP!! READY TO GO!!! Caucus 4 Obama '08!!
This is http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-u...