Undecideds find little help in debate

Richard Brian

Jan Strout, left, and Lauren Mayeux watch the debate at the Applebee’s on West Charleston Boulevard. They were part of a group of voters with a particular interest in health care issues.

By Charlotte Hsu (contact), David McGrath Schwartz (contact)

Wednesday, Jan. 16, 2008 | 2 a.m.

MSNBC Debate Spin Room Reaction

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Democratic campaign leaders put their spin on the debate. (En Espanol: Reacción al Debate de MSNBC)

Outside Support

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Some of the most interesting sights and sounds of the Democratic presidential debate didn't come from Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, or Barack Obama on the inside of the Cashman Center. Instead the trio's supporters, along with a large legion of Dennis Kucinich backers, made their views, votes, and vocals known on the outside.

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The political fellowship flowing on the stage at the Cashman Center on Tuesday night might have warmed the hearts of the three Democratic presidential candidates, but it frustrated voters who watched on TV, hoping the debate would provide a final, defining moment before Saturday’s caucuses.

From a group of health care advocates watching at a restaurant to young adults gathered at a high school, few felt moved to change their candidate loyalties.

“It could have been a lot more feisty,” said Lynn Vertner, 51, a Las Vegas real estate agent without health insurance whose bills from breast cancer and a burst appendix in the past year are piling up.

“I’m listening to hear who is going to put words into action,” she said at an Applebee’s restaurant on Charleston Boulevard, where a dozen members of Nevada for Health Care, an advocacy group, gathered to watch the debate on TV. They were hoping to discern who would make health care reform a priority.

Before it began, Vertner was waffling between Clinton and Edwards. How to measure?

“I’m just looking to see who I trust the most to do what they say,” she said.

The debate didn’t help. She said she liked it that Clinton spoke about the real estate market and foreclosures, but was now leaning a bit toward Edwards but, well, remained undecided. She still had three days to sort it out.

Lara Garrabraut, 39, said she was “very much” an undecided voter before the debate.

She and her husband own a small business they run out of their house. And she was listening for plans to make health care more affordable and accessible.

She, like others, knew and liked each of the candidate’s positions on health care reform. In many ways, it now came down to her gut reaction.

“They all sounded good,” she said before concluding she was most impressed with Edwards.

In particular, she liked his emphasis on physical and mental health care for veterans. “We need that for everyone,” she said.

By debate’s end, the viewers shrugged. It was a tame debate, the said no fireworks, no clear winner.

Similar sentiments were shared at a high school in North Las Vegas, where younger voters were hoping that something from the night’s debate would give them reason to vote with confidence for a particular candidate.

Brian Benedict, 22, who recently graduated from UNR, began the night eager to hear more about candidates’ policies. “Largely, it was disappointing,” he said.

Although the talk about Yucca Mountain and energy policy was informative, he said he felt the presidential hopefuls and their media hosts devoted too much time to mulling over recent spats between contenders.

Still, Benedict, who was undecided before the debate, said he was leaning toward Illinois Sen. Barack Obama by the end. “He tried to get substantive issues on the table ... I was the least disappointed with him.”

The loudest applause at the watching party at Canyon Springs High School was triggered as the candidates spoke of the cost of attending college.

Tayla Afaga, a 17-year-old, said she felt Clinton, Edwards and Obama successfully focused on the issues. Moreover, she was impressed by the candidates’ emphasis on keeping Democrats united.

“I guess what struck me most about the debate was, I think we’ve narrowed it down to three very good Democratic nominees,” she said.

Discussion: 22 comments so far…

By sirikina

1/16/08 at 7:02 a.m.

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I appreciate all the work the Clintons have done for the country. Hillary is a fine political mind and a good public figure. Obama and Edwards both offer more to our country at this time however. Each of them offer something outside of the main political pathway. I would really like to see an Edwards/Obama ticket in the fall. I do support Edwards at this point because of two factors. I feel that Edwards speaks the loudest for the rights of the average man and woman, his policy ideas have the largest impact in my mind. Second I feel he has the best understanding of what it takes to go from a working class family to having the ability to be president. This is a huge achievement in our country. Now most likely which ever of the three get the nomination the good ideas of the others will be brought forward to a national platform. So I am just excited to have three real canidates on the dem ticket.

But for me Edards/Obama 08 sounds best. Every debate sounds about the same to me.
By Spencer777

1/16/08 at 10:14 a.m.

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Barack Obama does nothing to inspire me. He talks a lot about hope and uniting, but does not seem to have a plan to lead the country. Hillary Clinton seems to bring about more of the same blue state/red state divisiveness and Republicans can't wait to run against her.

John Edwards is the only candidate that has comprehensive plan to bring our country back together.

http://www.johnedwards.com/issues/

If you get a chance, see John Edwards in person. He is in Reno today, Las Vegas tonight and Henderson tomorrow.

http://www.johnedwards.com/nevada/events...

Go John Edwards!
By Linda

1/16/08 at 10:37 a.m.

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I hope they will look at the REAL issues. That's what we need to bring about REAL change. We've had enough SYMBOLIC change. I don't need to spend more money to have fancier packaging to realize I now have more waste and the PRODUCT IS THE SAME.

John Edwards showed he has the passion and care to fight for THE PEOPLE. AND he has the best policies for the people and our country. John Edwards will keep the American promise.

Edwards Declared the Winner by a Focus Group of Undecided Nevada Voters. On Fox News, Frank Luntz' focus group from Las Vegas of thirty undecided Nevada Democrats declared Edwards the winner.

Luntz:

"How many of you thought John Edwards won?" [1/2 crowd raises hand]

"How many of you came in supporting Senator Edwards?" [About 3 people raise hand]

"On issue after issue, we're going to show this to you tomorrow night, his language actually scored better than Senator Clinton and Senator Obama."

Fox News

Edwards seizes an opening

The front-runners' determination to bury the hatchet gave Edwards an opening to further raise his profile after stronger-than-expected showings in the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary.

When Russert turned the discussion to the war in Iraq, Edwards noted that Obama and Clinton were voicing similar ideas about when and how to pull U.S. troops out of combat. He said his commitment to a U.S. withdrawal was stronger.

"I think there are real differences here, and they're not subtle," Edwards said, vowing to "have all combat troops out in the first year that I'm president of the United States."

"I will end combat missions," he said. "And while I'm president, there will be no permanent military bases in Iraq."

While Clinton and Obama objected that their positions were largely the same as Edwards', the exchange allowed him to go on the offensive and steal some of the intense focus from the front-runners.

Likewise, when taking his chance to question his rivals, Edwards pointedly mentioned the huge sums of money both Clinton and Obama have raised from drug and insurance companies, asking, "Do you think these people expect something, or are they just interested in good government?

Nuclear Power

Reno Gazette-Journal's Anjeanette Damon

Edwards Steeled His Credentials "By Pointing Out He Is the Only Candidate to Explicitly Oppose the Construction of New Nuclear Power Plants." When "the inevitable Yucca Mountain question is broached...Edwards attempted to steel his credentials by pointing out he is the only candidate to explicitly oppose the construction of new nuclear power plants."

John Edwards for America.
By claudiam

1/16/08 at 10:46 a.m.

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Michael - this primary is not over. Hillary is not our candidate. Thanks for the comment because the dems that are supporting Hillary need to realize that she is extremely divisive and polarizing and will only continue this gridlock in the White House. I do not understand those who cannot make a decision on our candidates. Any one of our democratic candidates will make a difference in office. We have made so many steps backwards that it is going to take a lot of action to get back on track. I say to you undecideds - look at the big picture and consider what is right for America not just for your personal issue at this moment.
By katerina

1/16/08 at 10:58 a.m.

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I trust John Edwards the most to lead our country back to a better direction.

He hasn't taken a lot of money from drug companies and insurane companies, so he can do what is right about health care and won't water down change to please his contributors.

He understands that economic mess we're in and will fight to keep companies from shipping millions more American white collar, high-paying jobs overseas when we can least afford to lose them. Clinton and Obama still think free trade is more important than protecting American workers.

He will get us out of Iraq more quickly than either Obama or Clinton will.

He doesn't support building any more nuclear power plants.

And he does better in match-ups with the leading Republicans than either Clinton or Obama do and so is the surest bet to win in November.

Edwards would make a great President.
By Girly_Girl

1/16/08 at 2:42 p.m.

Comment removed by staff.
By Theo

1/16/08 at 10:02 p.m.

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While it's true Obama's rhetoric and oratory make me feel good to be an American, it underscores his naivety.

He says he brought ethics reform to Washington. Anyone familiar with the legislation knows how weak and ineffective it is in dealing with the issue of lobbyists in Washington.

What *else* has he accomplished in Washington?

Katy called Senator Clinton, "status quo in a skirt." While it's mildly sexist, it couldn't be farther from the truth. The fact is, the policy positions of Edwards, Obama and Clinton differ in only the most minute ways.

Senator Obama says he brings people together, that he's able to bring compromise. Is that what we want? Weak, watered-down Democratic ideals pursued in a way so that Republicans will support them? We've had seven years of a president and vice president who have worked to push the country violently to the right.

Now we need a violent shift back to center. Obama says he'll compromise.

Clinton will fight. And she's proven she can win.

I love all the talk about how divisive she is. And Bush isn't? Here's a well-known election fact: people don't show up to vote *against* someone they don't like. All this talk about a Hillary candidacy somehow being a boon to the Republicans? It's nonsense.

If people showed up to vote against a candidate, 2004 would've ended much differently.

Bill Clinton was able to overcome Gingrich and the Republican-led House and Senate. Think of what Hillary could accomplish with a Democrat-led House and Senate.

No compromise. Pure progressive policy.

It doesn't have to be a dream... we just have to stand up for Hillary.
By tomdc

1/16/08 at 10:17 p.m.

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I've been a life-long Democrat and could never imagine voting Republican. I've was always a loyal Clinton supporter until they supported the invasion of Iraq so strongly.
Now I'm just disgusted at the slime the Clintons have become and I join the 50% of the USA who would vote for a dead dog before I'd vote for a Clinton again.
By Spencer777

1/17/08 at 8:54 a.m.

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Do not give up and vote for Hillary as the status quo. Do not hope that Obama can beat the Republican nominee. The media blitz for these two candidates has been playing into the Republicans hopes of retaining the White House for another four years. Nevada can make the difference this year!!

John Edwards has consistently shown that he has the biggest statistical advantage over all of the Republican candidates. John Edwards can win the national election, ensuring that this will not be a repeat of elections of 2000 and 2004. Do not inject doubt into the election by nominating an barely electable national candidate.

Caucus for John Edwards this Saturday and make him the front runner!
By Nilsson

1/17/08 at 1:26 p.m.

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One particular thing about the last weeks of this campaign strikes me. Both in this debate, and in the campaign overall, Obama has talked about why he would be the best president. In contrast; Clinton has more and more talked about why she thinks Obama should not be president. Aren´t most Americans tired of negative campaigning...?

Between two equally inteligent politicians it´s easy to choose the positive campaigner.

Let´s hope Obama wins this caucus on Saturday!
By dranfu

1/17/08 at 5:36 p.m.

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If you truly support Obama, then spread this article to everyone on your email list, on every blog, and to everyone everywhere. Let his record and his years of selfless service to the American dream speak for itself. Remember, we are only separated from every other person in the world by 6 people. Send it to every American you know. Truth will always trump lies, so don't be afraid. Stand for truth in these dark times and let's take our country back from the elites.

Time Magazine - Obama's Political Experience
Wednesday, Jan. 16, 2008
Obama's Varied Record
By AP/CHRISTOPHER WILLS
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/...
By nurseratchet

1/17/08 at 8:16 p.m.

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THE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE ISSUE IS THE EASIEST ONE FOR ME. OF ALL THREE TOP DEMOCRAT CANDIDATES, HILLARY CLINTON IS THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS SAID SHE WILL OPEN UP THE SAME HEALTH PLAN THAT CONGRESS AND FEDERAL EMPLOYEES HAVE TO THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES. I WAS UNDER THAT PLAN WHEN I WORKED FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND IT IS GREAT! YOU NEED SOMETHING, YOU GET IT. I CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT IT IS LIKE FOR SOMEONE TO STAND BY HELPLESSLY AND WATCH A SPOUSE, YOUR CHILD, YOUR PARENT, A BELOVED FRIEND, DIE BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT GET AN ORGAN TRANSPLANT OR CANCER TREATMENT BECAUSE THE INSURANCE COMPANY WON'T COVER IT. OR, YOU DON'T HAVE INSURANCE AND THE STATE WON'T COVER IT!! HILLARY'S PLAN GIVES YOU THE OPTION TO JOIN OR STAY WITH THE PLAN YOU HAVE IF THAT IS YOUR CHOICE. HILLARY'S PLAN WILL COVER "EVERYONE"!! OBAMA'S PLAN LEAVES OUT APPROXIMATELY 15 MILLION PEOPLE. I AM TRYING TO FIND OUT WHICH 15 MILLION PEOPLE THAT IS. I HOPE I'M NOT ONE OF THEM. VOTE TESTED AND TRUE EXPERIENCE PEOPLE OF NEVADA. HILLARY CLINTON FOR PRESIDENT 2008!! AND REMEMBER LAS VEGAS, ALL THAT GLITTERS SHINY AND NEW, IS NOT GOLD.
By Spencer777

1/18/08 at 6:47 a.m.

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"There's a wall around Washington and we need to take it down. The American people are on the outside. And on the other side, on the inside, are the powerful, the well-connected and the very wealthy.That wall didn't build itself or appear overnight. For decades, politicians without convictions and powerful interests gathered their bricks and their stones and their mortar, and they went to work. They went to work to protect their interests, to block the voice of the American people, and to stop our country's progress. They went to work to protect, defend, and maintain the status quo.

"You have a choice in this election. You have to decide what kind of person you want as your next president. Do you want someone who is going to pretend that wall around Washington isn't there, or defend the people who helped build it? Or do you want someone who is going to lead with conviction and tell you the truth, and have a little backbone? Do you want someone who is going to hope that the people who spent millions of dollars and decades building that wall, and have billions more invested in keeping it up, are going to be willing to compromise, to take it down voluntarily? Or do you want someone who is going to stand up to those people and fight for your interests, when the chips are down, when your backs are against the wall, every single day?

"We have a choice in this election. We can keep trying to shout over that wall. We can keep trying to knock out a chink here and there, to punch little holes in it and hope our voices get through. We can settle for baby steps, half-measures and incremental change, and try to inch our way over that wall and toward a better future. Or we can be bold and knock it down. …
-John Edwards, DNC Fall Meeting

Knock Down That Wall! Don't vote the status quo and vote in another corporate Democrat.

Make a statement tomorrow and caucus for John Edwards.
By TrueDem

1/18/08 at 7:09 a.m.

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The bottom line:

What candidate represents your needs and offers real solutions?

Who is the true democrat in this race?

Who has always been a champion for working men and women?

Who walked the picket lines with Union members BEFORE the the primaries began?

My choice is easy.
Edwards.
By cnmircea

1/18/08 at 7:53 a.m.

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Why Hillary is more electable than any other democrat?
Watch the interview with the African-American Sen. Charles Rengel at:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/
Full address:
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/vi...
The winning choice for the country: Hillary.
Or another Kerry-like choice: Obama.
By JohnRoberts

1/21/08 at 2:44 p.m.

Suggest removal

JCJCD - stop spreading your propaganda videos on youtube!

You have been uploading hundreds of videos and have DISABLED the comments and ratings on them because you don't want users to post the reality on your videos!!!!

You are now spamming all over this site and the web with links to your videos.

YOU ARE NOTHING BUT DIRTY! Your smearing tactics are very deceitful and we will get you REMOVED from YOUTUBE for your propaganda and dirty smearing attacks. You are as DIRTY as the party you're campaigning for, the Clintons.

SHAME ON YOU for posting hundreds of videos!! People are catching on to what the Clinton campaign has been up to... Smear campaigns and dirty attacks.

Everyone realizes how dirty the Clinton camp is. SHAME on you jcjcd! Everyone who's against his nasty actions and attacks, complain to YouTube and have jcjcd's videos removed! Be a man and allow people to be able to respond to your videos instead of hiding. You know the truth hurts and you just want to suppress the American people's say! Time to take action against jcjcd!!!

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