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Joe Biden
Sunday, Dec. 7, 2008 | 2 a.m.
In a move to reassert Congressional independence at the start of the new presidential administration, the vice president will be barred from joining weekly internal Senate deliberations, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said in an interview with the Las Vegas Sun.
Reid’s decision to exclude Vice President-elect Joe Biden from the Senate arena where he spent most of his adult life is intended to restore constitutional checks and balances that tilted heavily toward the executive branch during the Bush presidency.
One of the most outward symbols of that power shift in the Bush years has been Vice President Dick Cheney’s attendance at weekly Senate Republican strategy luncheons. Cheney’s access to lawmakers enabled the White House to extend its reach into the legislative branch in ways unmatched in modern presidential history.
Congressional observers say Cheney’s presence helped create an atmosphere in which many Republicans favored party unity above congressional independence from the executive branch — perhaps most forcefully in debates over national security and the Iraq war.
“Cheney would come in there and try to force discipline on the Republican senators,” said Rutgers University Professor Ross Baker, who studies Congress.
“He was the Bigfoot that came into those meetings,” Baker continued. “If someone got out of line, he would put a thumb in their eyes.
“It’s something I think people will puzzle over for a long time — how passive the Republicans were, and how easily led they were by the Republican White House,” he said. “I don’t think that Reid wants a repetition of that at all.”
Reid, in an interview in his Washington office last week, said Biden would not be welcome to continue this tradition after he and President-elect Barack Obama take office.
“He can come by once and a while, but he’s not going to sit in on our lunches,” Reid said. “He’s not a senator. He’s the vice president.”
Reid’s decision signals the potential start of a new day in Washington, and a realignment of the executive-legislative relationship.
As the Bush administration comes to a close, Cheney’s tenure as vice president is regarded by scholars as perhaps the most powerful the nation has ever seen. He methodically acquired power for the executive branch that Republicans in Congress willingly ceded.
Cheney played a leading role in furthering administration policy, particularly in the national security arena — from the decision on 9/11 to try to intercept the hijacked airplanes headed toward Washington to the subsequent run-up to and prosecution of the Iraq war.
Cheney’s regular attendance, sometimes with White House advisers in tow, was unprecedented. Traffic in the Senate halls came to a standstill on Tuesdays as Secret Service agents cleared the way for the VP and his entourage.
A spokeswoman for the vice-president-elect said “Biden had no intention of continuing the practice started by Vice President Cheney of regularly attending internal legislative branch meetings — he firmly believes in restoring the Office of the Vice President to its historical role.”
“He and Senator Reid see eye to eye on this,” said Biden’s spokeswoman Elizabeth Alexander.
Reid’s decision to exclude Biden is one in a long line of Senate steps to swat away attempts by presidents and their proxies to insert themselves into the affairs of the chamber.
Most memorable may be then-Democratic Senate Majority Leader Lyndon B. Johnson’s attempt to retain his chairmanship of the party’s policy committee during his transition to vice president after the 1960 election.
As powerful as Johnson had been in the Senate, he generated fury inside his own party when he sought essentially to keep some control over the legislative branch from his new address.
Associate Senate Historian Donald Ritchie said Johnson was “hurt by the angry response.”
Senators then, as they had throughout history, understood potential encroachment of the executive branch on their power. Similar rebuffs fill the pages of Senate history, from John Adams to Spiro Agnew.
“Every vice president who has tried to be assertive has been restrained by the Senate,” said Ritchie, the historian. “Usually the vice president gets the hint and goes back to the White House.”
Reid has made no secret of his displeasure with the Bush administration’s reach into legislative affairs or his disdain for the expanded role of the vice president.
Reid is also aware of his own standing, including the criticism from those on the left of his party who have been disappointed the leader has been unable push back more forcefully against the Bush White House.
“The fact that the Republican senators acquiesced wasn’t a good thing,” Baker said, “and I don’t think Reid saw it as a good thing.”
The VP is the Presidnet of the Senate. As a Dem who should attend once in a while.
Snubbing Biden is hysterical! Zer0-Bama hasn't even been sworn in and he is already losing political battles with his DemocRAT buddies. This is going to be a very long four years.
It is a two way street. It allowed Republican Senators to have more access to the White House.
I guess this means that Biden is just going to be a figure head in the White House with zero influence and input.
I think Obama is hoping that Biden will just keep his mouth shut and not say the ton of stupid things like the below:
Biden: "The idea he doesn't realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that's the Executive Branch"
Wrong: Article I defines the Legislative branch and the role of the VP as President of Senate is define in that section.
Biden: "as vice president, to preside over the Senate, only in a time when in fact there's a tie vote. The Constitution is explicit."
Wrong: The VP can preside over the Senate anytime that they want to. It is explicit in the Constitution and in Senate rules. There are many times that they choose to preside over the Senate and not cast a vote. The joint sessions of Congress traditionally have the VP preside over the Senate. I also believe that the first day of a Senate is normally has the VP presiding over the Senate. According to Biden, the Constitution explicitly forbids this from happening.
Biden: "The idea he doesn't realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that's the Executive Branch"
Wrong: Article I defines the Legislative branch and the role of the VP as President of Senate is define in that section.
Article II defines the Executive Branch and talks about the VP taking over if the Prez dies.
<<Snubbing Biden is hysterical! Zer0-Bama hasn't even been sworn in and he is already losing political battles with his DemocRAT buddies. This is going to be a very long four years.>>
This might provide us with some insight into how it happened, that Cheney usurped more power than the checks and balances in the Constitution permit. The (dare I say "ignorant"?) partisanship I see in this post permits Republicans to overlook, or misinterpret, or trivialize, or rationalize really, really bad things when one of their own trounces our liberties and thumbs his nose at our basic freedoms.
You didn't really read the article, did you? Or are you one of those people who just can't seem to answer the correct multiple choice question, when a test asks you to choose the closest meaning to the paragraph you just read?
Biden is NOT being snubbed. This is NOT a political battle he lost. There is NO fighting among the Democrats on this issue. Biden is handing America a political GAIN by undoing the damage caused by the Bush administration (and in particular Cheney) by giving us back our country, and putting the position of Vice President back where it belongs: out of the Senate.
It's been a long time since you've seen "America", hasn't it? I guess you forgot what it's about. But it's coming back now, once we fumigate and burn some sage in the White House to eradicate the stench.
Good luck on that problem you have with understanding what you read...
The role of the Vice President: "President of the Senate" means you skip the lunches, and only show up when you need to break a tie vote.
The Constitution limits the formal powers and role of Vice President to becoming President should the President become unable to serve (due to the death, resignation, or medical impairment of the President) and sometimes acting as the presiding officer of the U.S. Senate. As President of the Senate, the Vice President has two primary duties: to cast a vote in the event of a Senate deadlock and to preside over and certify the official vote count of the U.S. Electoral College. For example, in the first half of 2001, the Senators were divided 50-50 between Republicans and Democrats and Dick Cheney's tie-breaking vote gave the Republicans the Senate majority. (See 107th United States Congress.)
John Tyler, the first Vice President to assume the Presidency following the death of the previous President
Except for this tie-breaking role, the Standing Rules of the Senate do not vest any significant responsibilities in the Vice President. Rule XIX, which governs debate, does not authorize the Vice President to participate in debate, and grants only to members of the Senate (and, upon appropriate notice, former presidents of the United States) the privilege of addressing the Senate, without granting a similar privilege to the sitting Vice President. Thus, as Time Magazine wrote during the controversial tenure of Vice-President Charles G. Dawes, "once in four years the Vice President can make a little speech, and then he is done. For four years he then has to sit in the seat of the silent, attending to speeches ponderous or otherwise, of deliberation or humor."[13]
"Unwelcome"..."barred"...seems to be a direct, disrespectful slap in the face to Obama-Biden to even suggest they will act like Bush-Cheney.
One would think that a dummard like Boss Greed, who operates in a bubble more than Bush-Cheney ever did, would welcome input from those even more experienced and certainly more foresighful than he, but this is all about Boss Greed's insatiable need for power.
This will certainly come back to bite him in the arse come '10. I can't wait to cross party lines and vote for any one who runs against the Boss.
Snubbing Biden is just Reid telling Biden what he thinks of him as a leader.
Biden Said in the debate with Palin that he had no role in the Senate even though he is supose to preside over it.
Biden did not even know his job function.
Democrats are smart to keep Biden hiden away
"Snubbing Biden is hysterical! Zer0-Bama hasn't even been sworn in and he is already losing political battles with his DemocRAT buddies."
I like this post best so best. Obvious in it's hatred of the new president and Democrats, gloating in it's own unsubstantiated assumptions, rewriting history as it happens.
Very stupid and very funny. A great way to start the day with a laugh.
"This is going to be a very long four years."
Obviously the next eight years will be overwhelmingly difficult for you. Better get your insults ready. You're going to need a lot of them.
JonFraudCarry, It has been along eight years,thanks to the right wing scum that held power and forgot how our government works.
Jfnance32 Do you ever stop? The VP's duities are very clear and for you to continue the 'nazi Cheney' rant is ridiculous. Of course people have come to expect no less from you and your delusions.
johnevegas, Just how impaired are you? Biden was not snubbed, that is how our government works. Just another right wing neo con extremist who can't get over the fact the caper is over and the jackels have been thrown out of the city.
Homer......I am quoting directly the US Constitution and even the Senate offical rules support it, too.....not some kooliad DailyKos site.
Where am I wrong if you are genius and please quote legal sources not crap out your imaginery head.
jfinance32,
"Presiding over the Senate" doesn't mean much, no matter how often you do it. Cheney made it a very powerful "not much", which pushed it outside the boundaries of merely breaking a tie vote now and again. That was a BAD THING that he did, which tipped the balance of power in ways the Constitution says it's not supposed to get tipped. And Republicans just nodded with twirling eyes and a mouthful of borrowed insults (like "Zero-bama") and let him do it. Boo-yah.
On another note to all y'all, I'm sorry for anyone who is still defending the Bush administration...with all due respect, and a gentle pat on the head.
First, all I was showing is that Biden is ingorant of what the Constitution says about the formal duties of VP. He gets a free pass from the media whenever he makes boneheaded statements.
Second, VP's duties beyond the formal Constitution description is between the President and the VP. Some VP's have very little duties. Other VP's have a lot of duties.
So, far, it looks like Biden is going to be kept in the closet but it is too early to tell.
What Reid is saying is clear "I will not talk to Biden"
What Biden is saying is clear "Reid will not talk to me"
What is the problem? Biden understands he out.
Homer, you need to re-read my post. I understand what you are saying. I was commenting on the laughability of namedujour's moronic rant.
nance - "I was showing is that Biden is ingorant of what the Constitution says..."
Near as I can tell, you know more about the constitution than Joseph Biden, more about the Internet and global warming than Al Gore, and more about spirituality than the Dalai Lama.
No wonder you never admit to being wrong about anything ever. You would probably tell Christ you're better at walking on water. That much might be true.
JohnEVegas....you make me laugh so much.
Ok....if you think that the Article I of the Constitution deals with the Executive Branch when it clearly says: "Article I - Legislative Branch" then you can be ignorant, too.
Do me a favor go look up a copy of the Constitution and use your own eyes and see what is next to the words "Article I".
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/...
Also, if you think that the only time the VP can preside over the Senate is during possible tie votes, then you can be ignorant, too.
If the VP only presides over the Senate during possible tie votes (as your man Biden says) then:
Who presides over the Senate during the Electoral College vote count?
Who presides over the Senate during joint sessions of Congress?
How can the Senate own website be soooooooooo wrong? http://www.senate.gov/
"For many years, the vice president routinely presided over the Senate, and presidents pro tempore were elected to serve only during the absence of the vice president. "
Even the Senate rules cleary state that the VP can preside over any Senate session any time he/her desires, too.
It does not bother me that you desire to be ignorant.
Go ahead and be ignorant.
With Hillary as Secretary of State and Kerry as Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Reid decided to minimize the only member of the new power structure that runs off at the mouth more than he does.
"you make me laugh so much"
Everything makes you laugh Jim. And I'm sure it all looks funny to you from way up there.
As I recall, you gave a massive pass to Sarah Palin on such issues. One can only wonder what you might say about Al Haig's opinions about the chain of command.
You might note, my post never claimed any knowledge of the subject at all. I just said that you appear to know more about those things than the people I mentioned. You added the rest on your own, and then got all uppity about it on your own too. Essentially, you solidified the point I made in my first post. Thanks.
I openly admit, I don't know or care what the constitution says about the VP. It doesn't matter in my every day life.
That shows your true colors.
Here you are mocking me for showing that Biden is clueless about his own Constitution duties and then you say........I do not care about the VP Constitutional duties.
Which means....all you care about is mocking me.
You need to stop about being so obessive about me.
You need to get treatment.
"That shows your true colors."
You always say something like that when somebody calls you on your stuff. For somebody who constantly (constantly!) dishes it out, you sure are a sensitive one. But you are the one who says you are smarter than "so and so". I'm merely observing that, and then observing you get upset when somebody points it out.
"You need to stop about being so obessive about me.
You need to get treatment."
I'm more qualified than you in the psychology department. And since you refuse to even acknowledge your own shadow, there is little value in your words. Except to you of course.
"I'm more qualified "
I will also add that you are obessive about telling people that you are qualified or more qualified at stuff even though you have no formal degrees or certification. I guess you must think reading books or hear some nut talk stuff that increases you being qualified at stuff.
And of course you are constantly chasing shadows.
There goes a shadow.....go chase it.
"I will also add that you are obessive about telling people that you are qualified or more qualified..."
But you are unaccountable for having asked for the qualifications in the first place. As in "who are you to say?" and "how do you know?". You asked. I had them and happen to know something. Why is that a big deal?
I chase my shadow constantly Jim. My life is devoted to it, though "chase" is not the right word. As I told you before, that's the only reason I'm here. That's why I'm totally okay with being dismissed by you. Constantly. And that I'm in good company there.
Sorry, but I don't see you as a victim. I don't go after others the way I go after you Jim. Because others don't attack or dismiss like you do. Constantly.
By the way, the other day I said I thought you were a pretty smart guy. I'm amazed you let that go by unanswered. Interesting. You feel attacked but not complimented. You feel obsessed about but not obsessive. Not quite sure what to make of all that. Yet. :)
OK, Boys, time to take it outside and duke it out.
United States Constitution
Article I [The Legislative Branch]
Line 31
The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no vote, unless they be equally divided.
I remember Palin said she would spend more time with the Senate.
Biden said she was "stupid for not knowing the only thing the VP could do was to break a tie".
I looked it up, seen he was wrong, decided I would vote for Palin.
After I learned more about her I decided she was far more capable than the other three put together.
Everyone said McCain wouldn't live long enough to finish the term.
bleeda
The only time congress is independent is when the president is from the other party. If both houses and the prez are the same they follow the party line or else. The only time they deviate from this scenario is when something the prez wants will cost the congressmen their power. Why do you think the the majority and minority parties have leaders and whips? To get everyone in line. So Cheney having lunch with his pals is just a bunch of crap. Long before Cheney went to lunch congressmen who didn't support the party line could never get support for anything they wanted and got the worst committee assignments. Even congressmen with powerful commitee chairmanships, such as the late Les Aspin of Wisconsin and chair of one of the top house committees, was publicly dressed down and threatened with removal from chairmanship by his own party because he voted with the "enemy" occaisionally. Les got the message.